Understanding Kang the Conqueror
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- čas přidán 18. 02. 2023
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Kang the Conqueror is a major Marvel Comics supervillain who recently made his live action debut in Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. This episode discusses Kang's history, his retcons, and the important appearances by the writers and artists who have built the character. - Zábava
I'm pleased that you mentioned Victor Timely, but there's more to him than influencing Phineas Horton. All throughout the 20th century, "Victor Timely" (or one of his "descendants", all of whom were Kang in disguise) was sneaking future technology into the Earth-616 world, to shape the 20th century to his liking. Every time you look at a Marvel comic and you see technology that is implausibly high tech, from artificial men in 1940 to superhero armor in1960 to Life Model Decoys in 1980 ... ? It only happened because Kang provided the technology centuries before it would have otherwise been available. Even Reed Richards commented, in that 1992 set of annuals, that he uses components that come from Timely Industries; he develops a lot of tech on his own too, but some of his gizmos rely on Kang.
So the concept is that Kang "conquered" the 20th century, if covertly, by molding it as he saw fit. Why did he fight the Avengers then? Well, mostly for sport.
We should look at the name "Victor Timely" too, because it's clever. It implies "time conqueror", but one of Marvel Comics' ancestor companies was Timely Comics. Oh Mark Gruenwald, you clever rascal. I still miss ya, guy.
Timely Comics is Victor Timely working in our reality.
I guess I don’t understand how that translates to “conquering” anything. And if that is his idea of conquering, I say the Avengers let him have it. Yep kang, you’ve conquered us, good job, now go hang out with yourself while the rest of the world continues on not being aware you exist.
He should have been called Atlas Timely to reference Marvel's 2 Former Names.
@@ConcreteLogicVideo VICTOR Timely. He's VICTORIOUS.
RIP Mark Gruenwald
Kang is probably one of the best uses of time travel in fiction, in that he demonstrates somewhat more realistic consequences of a human being having access to such an ability. Simply put, Kang NEVER gives up - his real super power is determination. Kang keeps experimenting with history and time, always comes back with a new angle, and is always steps ahead of everyone else... because he quite literally is ahead of everyone else.
My favorite kang story is a new one called “only myself left to conquer”
Favorite retcon: the additions of Stick and Elektra to Daredevil's early history. Frank Miller/Klaus Janson.
perhaps he's written so consistently because the actual Kang is retconning our history to make it so...
This is just cope lmao, the character sucks because of his inconsistencies
@@mchlfx not really, he isn't inconsistent but convoluted. Kang is kinda the same thing as the Reverse Flash at DC, a time traveler from the future that messed around with the time continuam.
Avengers Forever is probably my favourite Kang story.
As far as favourite retcons go. Normally, I hate the concept. But the one instance I think it works is with Cable, Apocalypse and the techno-organic virus. Apocalypse infects baby Nathan Summers with the techno-organic virus. Forcing him to be taken into the future to save his life. Leading to him becoming Cable. Years later, Cable travels back in time and ultimately infects En Sabah Nur with the techno-organic virus. Which facilitates him merging with his Celestial Armour, becoming Apocalypse. It's a great use of a paradoxical timeloop to address the fan question of where the virus came from.
It's always elegant when you cant explain something and you explain it through time travels. I dont know why they dont use it for everything as it works with anything.
👍
Mine to Kang is a badass
the best retcon ever is Max Fleischer giving Superman flight.
Kang was always my favorite because of his lack of powers and use of his mind. Great vid
I thought his suit gives him powers. 🤔
Awesome video, Chris! I like a Kang story in which he travels back to Marvel's old west, so the Avengers go to that historical time to confront him and there they meet the Marvel western characters like Kid Colt, the Two-Gun Kid and the Rawhide Kid.
That was good!
Those stories were my introduction to the character.
My favorite Kang story wasn't from the comics. The multi-part story in Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes portrays a Kang who is posed with the threat of the destruction of his world. He deduces that the cause of the timeline shift is an action taken by Captain America in the 21st century and decides to go back in time to prevent this from happening. What makes this story so good is that is has an excellent balance of Kang as an arrogant conqueror, a calculated tactician, and even a villain with a point. He is still the ruthless ruler of the future, but his quest would see him save the world. It is all a means to an end as he will save the world so he can continue to control it. The story also gives Kang a personal motivation, as Ravonna was caught in the cataclysm and will die if he doesn't save the future. It also ties into the Kree/Skrull wars, the creation of Ultron, and the rivalry between Iron Man and Captain America. Overall, it is a great time and I would highly recommend watching it.
Awesome show that uses Kangs history in comics and combines in nicely into a good storyline
Kang The Conqueror Looks Great in The MCU!!!😎
Alan Moores retcon of the swamp thing is one of the best I won't write what it is spoilers and all that jive 😁
Just seen it, very cool concept
@@goob8945 yeah man it's certainly thought provoking
@@balthazarasquith i love it when writers take such wild risks, amazing when it pays off
@@goob8945 I agree with you back in the 80s Alan Moore and Frank Miller were amazing at taking risks. Shame the comic book industry doesn't really have any one of that calibre about these days
@@balthazarasquith even frank Miller and Alan Moore can't live up to the standard of Frank Miller and Alan Moore in the 80's.
It's not a lack of talent, it's a case of right people, right time. We'd been goofy silver aging so long Frank, Alan, Neil etc were like a breath of fresh air injecting realism and deconstruction techniques.
Avengers Forever is my favorite Avengers story. Glad I got to meet Carlos Pacheco and had him sign my collection back in 2013.
Kang has been my favorite Marvel villain since Kurt Busiek’s run. Great finally seeing him on the big screen.
Agreed. I had a bad opinion of Marvel's traditional characters for years but Kurt changed all of that. Untold Spidey brought me to Avenger vol 3 which brought me to a great love of the whole Marvel Universe. Kang Dynasty and Forever made him my favorite Marvel villain. Really anything can be done with him.
Yeah, Busiek really put him on my radar. I feel like his Kang story in Avengers (proper) is really under-referenced and underrated. (Likewise, Ultron Unlimited is WAY better than Age of Ultron.)
@@revoltpuppy Busiek’s run was the best classic style run ever. I love Hickman, but it’s a deconstruction.
The Best Kang Stories are from the sixties.
@@johnpglackin345 I really like the one with The Grandmaster and the Squadron Sinister by Roy Thomas. The first few by Stan Lee are hit and miss for me.
Can you make a video on artist Tim Sale who we unfortunately lost not too long ago.
The only redcon I have ever truly liked was when they altered The backstory of Batman so that he never killed. He didn't use guns, he didn't need to use guns. It was something that took the character and made it stand out from the wash of vigilantes that existed in comic book. Over the years it's also been a very good hook to make the character more compelling. That Really came to mind to me when I recently read a bunch of Stories featuring the shadow. When your main character relentlessly muthere's everything that crosses his path, it's a little hard To really grow the character or the setting. I use the shadow as a comparison and not The Punisher because Batman is basically the shadow
The Kang stories you recommend are some of my favorites. Especially the Roger Stern/John Buscema Avengers issues.
The Green Door and the immortality of gamma mutates is a fantastic retcon that took the cliché of death's impermanence in comics, down to lazy death fake-outs or temporary resurrections, and drastically reshaped the paradigm of the Hulk in a satisfying way that made perfect narrative sense.
Yeah, that series was amazing. Not only for things like that -- legitimizing comics rules and cliches -- but for re-interpreting all those characters in ways that made perfect sense.
Avengers Forever is not only my favorite Kang story but also one of my top Avengers stories. Kurt Busiek is the GOAT
He's a goat with superpowers. He's super nanny.
Kang was the only Secret Wars figure I had because he was such a pegwarmer Children’s Palace had a whole bin of them practically for free.
Kang is the one my cousin got for his birthday one year! Just him, and maybe he got a Captain America later. Did one ride a motorcycle? At the time, I kept thinking "who the heck is this Kang guy?".
Swordsman: Don't worry they are no match for my swords!
Kang the Conqueror: You shouldn't have brought a proverbial knife to a futuristic gun fight. :P LOL
Chris! Congratulations on the Vampi cover!!! You ROCK! :)
Favorite is Spider-man's totem. That was a very cool addition to the mythos. Least favorite is One More Day. It did gave us Superior Spider-man, but Marvel really needs to give us back 616 Peter & MJ status quo and stop teasing us (me, lol).
Congrats for the cover man!
But of course it was Roger Stern who wrote the greatest Kang story of them all. He's just the best.
Comic tropes, you are very valued as your channel is a powerhouse to comic readers.
The new variant in hand is going to be awesome !
Thank you as always for taking your time and explaining the origins of characters that have recent appearances on the big screen! Your work is always good
Avengers forever. I must've first read it when I was 10, and it has remained as one of my favourite avengers stories ever since
Great overview Chris...and again congrats on the Dynamite Cover! "KANG" it's not just for Astronauts.
Probably my favorite retcons are of bucky to winter soldier, black Adam to being a villain to an anti-hero and Robin being murdered by joker to being resurrected as Red Hood.
Red hood? That is a good one.
"The Once and Future Kang" was a great story title.
Glad to see another video out dude!
I remember when I read secret wars, I think either Doom or Kang says outright that Kang is his descendent, and therefore Kang can't kill Doom. That said, there's no reason Kang can't be a descendant of both Doom and Reid. Over a period of a thousand years, it'd be possible for a descendant of Doom and a descendant of Ried Richards to meet, not know or not care that their ancestors were arch enemies, and tie the family tree in such a way that would eventually lead to Kang.
I think the parallax retcon for green lantern was brilliantly done and the tie into blackest night was quite clever and peak comics.
Thanks for the video, you did a good job.
My favorite retcon is the one with Cap being frozen and the people who replaced him.
Great video. Cheers Chris!
I only just watched your Gorillas in comics episode earlier today so I smiled when I saw your Vampirella cover, looks great!
Thank you Chris
Hey man, congrats on the comic cover! 👌
Nice video mate!
Pet peeve of mine is people saying 'mediums' when 'media' is the plural of 'mediums'.
Love your deep dives and how you changed your channel from its early days.
I wouldn’t call them retcons. They don’t actually change anything that happened, they just elaborate on them and reveal new information. It’s only a retcon if it directly contradicts something.
*So this is where the idea of The Council of Ricks came from*
Hey congrats on the cover thats super cool!
Loving the channel and content here in Burien =) I gotta say though, I was legit surprised you didn't mention/recommend Only Myself Left to Conquer as I think that's probably the definitive Kang story. The ones you mentioned are solid as well but Only Myself Left to Conquer covers every aspect of his character and is one hell of a read.
Great and Timely (pun intended) look at Kang - a shorthand for those of us who can't remember all the stories from the comics. Always enjoy the videos a lot.
Great information in the kang episode I enjoyed it very informative ...You really helped me figure out what's going on with that story with the new movie thank you very much
Thanks Chris. Really appreciate the channel. As a fan of modern comics, I love the use of Kang in Rick Remender's Uncanny Avengers run. After the first arc, he does a great job of setting him up and executing a well multifaceted plan. One of the best villain plans I've seen in a superhero comic. That story made me appreciate the character as I thought him to be a joke beforehand. Take care and peace everyone.
I absolutely love Avengers Forever Chris, I love how it tackles Kang from various standpoints, I can see the influence it’s had on the Loki Disney Plus series, I highly recommend anyone to check it out!
That vampirella cover is pretty cool cus it features our boi comic Chris covering tropes
Seeing it tonight!
Thank you for this video! I've read comics since the '80s but very little pre-Bendis Avengers, so I always wondered if Rama-Tut and Immortus were intended to be Kang when introduced or were retconned to be him later.
Thanks for this.
My favourite huge retrocon is the original Superboy comic - the whole idea that Clark was a superhero as a boy was a retcon, every issue was a new retcon into Superman's history.
Also, Victor Timely was named after Marvel's original name, Timely Comic.
Avengers Forever is my favorite. I love how it takes you through classic moments of Avengers stories and ties then all together.
Congrats on your Vampirella cover!
I feel like this is going to be your year!
I like Kang for the same reason I like Doctor Who. You can do just about anything with the character and it'll technically make sense, even if the explanation is just a handwave.
I think an often overlooked retcon is frank millers retelling of the daredevil origin story. Probably my second favorite after alan moores swamp thing.
People forget that he was originally closer to spider-man than his more noir-ish take where his mother abandoned him, his abusive alcoholic father placed unfair expectations on him and after he lost his sight he clung to another abusive father figure.
I do like the more fun daredevil of stan lee karl kesel and mark waid too but i think miller gave him more depth
And the "fans" of the Daredevil show got so mad when the She-Hulk series showed DD acting as a mix of his show with the original comic take going nuts over how "they disneyfied him"
The Celestial Madonna storyline back in 1974-75 remains my favorite, along with the 1975-76 adventures in the West. So many things happened there: the intro of Mantis, Wanda begins to explore the limits of her power (including clobbering Thor with a meteor), and I still pretty well remember Thor's reaction to Kang's return (I think in Avengers 142)--"Zounds! Who would have thought the man to be obsessed." Steve Englehart wrote those issues, and his work there and in the Captain America (esp. Secret Empire) stories of the time are why he was my favorite comics author in my childhood.
i can't think of any comics retcons off the top of my head that i especially like or hate, but the two go-to examples for me are literary ones, especially to contextualize the idea of a retcon to those who aren't familiar with it:
the "death" of Sherlock Holmes at the end of _The Final Problem_ where, as originally written, his fight with Moriarty results in both of them falling off Reichenbach Falls to their deaths but the character was still so popular that Doyle wrote additional stories set before then (the most famous of those is probably _Hound of the Baskervilles_ ) but eventually wrote stories set after it which reveal that Holmes faked his death instead
the true nature of the One Ring from _Lord of the Rings;_ when Tolkien originally wrote _The Hobbit,_ the Ring was just a random magical item of no great importance and Gollum more or less willingly gave it to Bilbo for winning their riddle game, but when he got to LOTR he realized that there was no way Gollum would be able to just give it up like that and so was rewritten as planning to kill him anyway after losing the game so Bilbo used the Ring to become invisible and escape
Thanks!
Thank you for this video - now I understand why these two Kangs in the credits wear Egyptian regalia and those robes that invoke magicians.
Kang: I bet nobody has as complicated and convoluted a timeline as me
Doctor Who: BULLY A CHALLENGE, I LOVE COMPETITION!
I have a particular love for the twisted convolutions of superhero comics and Kang is right there in the middle of some awesome knots. Love it whenever he shows up.
Oddly enough, my favourite retcon comes from a series that led to my least favourite retcon...
Secret Wars, what they did to Molecule Man by making him limited only by his own self-imposed rules started him on the road to being one of the most powerful characters in Marvel, even going toe-toe for a while with the Beyonder in Secret Wars II. Frustratingly enough, the Beyonder, who was the dominant character in Secret Wars, was retconned into an Inhuman later on.
Wait what? An Inhuman?? That's bull$h¡T!!!
Great video and congrats on the Play button (first time I’ve noticed it, so maybe it’s old news).
6:50 loved that
another great video!
Avengers Forever is one of my all-time favorite comic book stories. In fact, it got me back into comics after I thought I had given them up for good.
Great video! I've always liked Kang and that AVENGERS ANNUAL that introduced the Scarlet Centurion is a classic! Here's a massive retcon, not so much in terms of overall importance but in terms of length: THE RAMPAGING HULK. The Hulk's black-and-white magazine adventures were set back in the Jade Giant's early days and featured an alien woman named Bereet who came to be involved with the Hulk and his pal Rick Jones as they met up with Namor, the X-Men, and an unnamed team made up of Ant-Man, the Wasp, Thor, and the golden-armored Iron Man! On one hand, it was a great bit of Silver Age-y fun, BUT it's not like a single one of these characters knew a thing about the Hulk when Stan and Jack had them meet in the original comics. That storyline ended when the Hulk's magazine switched to color and one-off modern-day tales. Of course, it also left some big questions from the black-and-white adventures unresolved. Finally, in the Hulk's regular monthly title, it was explained that none of those stories actually happened. When the Hulk and Rick confront Bereet in the present, we learn that she had become fascinated with them and so, as a filmmaker, she made up those stories about them as entertainment for her own people!
man Kurt Busiek just has endless gems
Kang is an awesome character and I hope they take advantage of how insane his history is, and that he could appear anywhere, in the MCU.
Congrats on Comic Chris.
Avengers, Kiss Tomorrow Good Bye,129,GS2,130-132,GS3,133-135 andGS4! Kang is a time traveler returning in Avengers 141-143 with early enthusiastic art from George Perez! Steve Englehart managed to juggle regular stories whilst exploring Kree/Skrull origin on the blue area of the moon, Vision’s origin and the Rama /Kang/Immortius dynasty! Lots of great stuff! My favorite retcon is connecting Immortius to Kang!⚡️🎯👍❤️😎
I seriously hope they do more with Iron Lad: I really enjoyed his brief stint in Young Avengers.
I loved Kang in the Prophet/ Cable crossover and the X-Men/ Star Trek the Next Generation Second Contact crossover.
Loved this. One of my favorite villains. Was so glad to see him make it to the MCU. And completely agree with those suggestions. Based on those three runs I have an almost complete collection now of Kang stories. I blame Kurt for making me love him so. lol
My personal favorite retcon was making Parallax the Yellow entity of power leading into the amazing Johns Green Lantern run
The clever and action packed Storys written by Roger stern ! Are my all time favorite avengers comics!
Someone already mentioned Alan Moore on Swamp Thing. While I'm not a fan of clever word play as plot, revealing that Weapon X was not the letter X, but the Roman Numeral '10' was brilliant and opened up so much interconnection with the endless projects to enhance people that dot Marvel's landscape. Possibly my all time favorite, despite ultimately diminishing Kyle Rayner (and later Redheaded Wally West when they duplicated this sequence for Flash) is the establishment of Parallax as a separate entity that had possessed Hal Jordan. Hal needed a note from his mother, as his downfall in 'Emerald Twilight' had been too far OOC. My least favorite? Well, unsurprisingly, it involves a deal with the devil and a major hero losing sight of his personal mantra. Maybe someday when the acolytes of a fallen editor sounds like Quesadilla age out from leadership at Marvel, this retcon can one day be given its last moment in time. Or were those hints too broad?
2:23 it says a lot about a character when their first appearance (or second) is a retcon
3:52 that's thestory that inspired the version of kang that we would see in earth's mightiest heroes cartoon
9:18 funny enough, the 2nd quantumania post credits, implies they will adapt this variant of kang in Loki S2
Always an awesome watch. And my favorite retcon is probably Venom going from a black suit to a gooey alien race forged by a god of the void (technically multiple retcons involved but I count it.)
My favorite Kang story is Avengers Forever. I love that book, the art is AMAZING and Busiek makes me love Kang as a villain. Kang is forever it's great.
I think the recent Kang The Conqueror mini series that came out in 2021 is an amazing jumping on point.
I only knew Kang as a Secret Wars action figure that is in my house that I don't remember buying nor asking my parents for when I was a kid.
I really love the 2017 Waid/Del Mundo Avengers run fighting Kang on various points in time and the multiverse.
I’d really love if you started listing the issues/runs of the comics you mention in the video in the description. It’ll make it so much easier to come back and read your recommendations later.
Just ordered your 3 signed covers, Chris! I've never read a Vampirella comic but maybe this will get me into that universe. I just wanted to support you and your channel after all the info and entertainment you've given me! I can't watch pros and cons live but I always catch it the next day to see if you review something I may have missed. Have you happened to check out Know Your Station from Boom? I've really been enjoying it!
That Avengers vol 3 nuffsaid issue is one of my favorite books of all time
Fun thx!
Without retcons Alan Moore has no career. Swamp Thing, Miracleman, Supreme, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
My favourite retcon is Swamp Thing never having truly been Alec Holland in Alan Moore's run.
I'd like a video about the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe
Thanks for the video! My introduction to Kang was the Busiek Avengers story where he wins. The dude took on every army, superhero and villain _in the world,_ all at once, and prevailed. I forget why he eventually lost, it seemed like he was more interested in conquering than ruling. Anyway, the story must have ended up being one of those variant timelines, because it involved massive changes to the Marvel universe that couldn't just be rolled back. Continuity became hard to define in the Jemas years.
Just recently I read Avengers Forever. And while it is fun, all the inside baseball stuff where they were fixing continuity issues in comics I never read didn't really appeal to me.
Best retcon? There have been so many! I'm not sure I can give a definitive answer, but right now the best one I can think of is probably Vigilante in Grant Morrison's "Seven Soldiers" event. Morrison fit all of Vigilante's stories into a single timeline where everything "happened" in a single crazy life. The same guy was a movie stuntman, then a superhero, then he went back in time to the old west, then eventually he returned to the present and became a country and western music star!
(Minor Seven Soldiers spoiler ahead.)
Even though he dies in the series, that version of Vigilante is the "official" version in my head.
I have to be honest, kang the conqueror has always left me cold.
In an effort To make the character relevant and more fun, Every time he is introduced they have to introduce another twist or loop into his timeline. The multi verse did give them a partial way out because it enabled them to have multiple time loops with him, with each one represented in the council. But because they all overlap In each other Timeline, it just makes it even more Convoluted.
He also only ever has one story whenever hes Incorporated into the Marvel universe. Hes bored, so hes attempting to take over a very specific point In time In a very specific timeline, just for the challenge. It's a story that gets old, especially because he pulls the time traveler bit as a cheat card On a regular basis. As you point it out, even if you kill him, hes going to come back because you killed Either an alternate timeline version of him, or you killed The version of him from 2 seconds into the future from the version you're dealing with now.
When it is a Story centered on him, such as the Mini series that came out a couple of years ago the stories are a little more interesting but at the end of the day they're just a reskind of Golden Age scifi story's, just with him is the main character.
Essentially, Whatever was interesting about the character has been warped Over the years by writers who used him as a get out of Jail card when they paint themselves into a Is corner.
Awesome
Lol loved that intro
I had his Secret Wars action figure back in the day, but I didn't know what his whole deal was as a kid.
Th e more I learn about Kang the more interesting I find him to be, either through this channel or others. Never quite had enough of a grasp of him in the past when I was younger, preferred Doctor Doom. I guess I found all the time travel and such too nebulous or confusing
The Young Avengers version of Kang was heartbreaking
Yes. Young Avengers was hot hot with their stories. The iron lad twist was so tragic
@@saturncrush NEVER did like The iron Lad character :/