CAN THE ELECTRIC TRACTOR PULL ANYTHING? Solectrac e25 vs Deere TURBO 1038X Tractor PULL TEST!
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Will the Solectrac Electric 25 HP subcompact tractor be able to pull more than the Tractor Time with Tim turbo charged John Deere 1025R?? TTWT uses a load cell to test the pulling capacity of each tractor. The results were surprising.
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I think it's interesting Soloctrac has set this as a 25 horsepower tractor whenever we talk about tractors it seems like most discussions start with horsepower doesn't matter it depends on your needs or use case.
Looking at this from a end user standpoint or consumer, all that matters is what you can buy with your money. So this being a new technology for tractors the obvious thing to do is compare it to the most relevant tractor for its characteristics and cost that's a diesel. If I'm looking at this electric tractor Solectrac E25 $35,327 for $972 less I can buy a 2032R with a loader with R4 tires $34,355 and still come out a little bit cheaper that would be a better comparison.
As I understand it Tim does not have a 2032R however he does have a 2038R which is only about $1300 more than the E25 tractor. This would be the right frame size and wheel size comparison. That's the comparison that makes the most sense to me as a consumer that Tim, @TractorTimewithTim should be making.
Thanks
Let’s hear the turbo 😁. Ballast is a game changer from small equipment to large. Arguing against the need is 😂.
This was a very interesting video. Agree with others about being troubled by the rollout. I’m considering a 1025R replacement. Not sure I am ready to try version 1 of the electric tractor but it sure looks like there is promise in the concept.
Cool video. One thing I noticed about the electric tractor that you didn’t mention was it looked like the three point hitch was extremely jerky when you were lifting it. I’m interested in seeing how all this testing goes but just from what little I’ve seen on your videos I’ve already noticed things that could probably be improved
Looking at the test I think a truly equal comparison would be to equal out the weight of all the tractors to as close as possible. The Soletrac looks like a heavier machine to start even before adding weight. You would have a much better base number to move up from as you added more weight to the larger tractors.
The best surface would be the concrete pad leading up to your shed door. Or if you have anybody nearby that has asphalt driveway. For the most consistent result you need a surface that does not move.
Neat to see. I figured sparky would pull more because electric makes so much torque. Still would like to know how that tractor does in the real world. I think you should do a test brush hogging this year or running a tiller. Diesel vs electric see what lasts longer on fuel/energy very curious about that.
3-6 hours of use depending on load per the website. All night to charge on 115 or 8hrs on 240. Not super practical.
@@ericstyer2890 kind of what I figured. So you can't work a full day with the machine. Honestly I notice on my electric bill when I use my table saw for a few hours. I would hate to see the bill to charge the tractor every night.
Agree - I am curious how long it would last pulling that much weight.
@@simpleman4196 if you assume that you use 20 kWh of 22 kWh capacity five days a week for ten months, that would be 4,000 kWh. USA Avg cost per kWh in 2021 was around .14. .14 x 4,000 kWh is $560. Thats only $46.6 per month using 90% of the battery five days per week, 10 months per year. Most people don’t use these machines for anywhere near that amount of hours.
I think you’d find that electric cost around 1/3 or less compared to diesel.Then you add in the cost of oil, air filters, fuel filters, etc and the savings is even more. Major cost savings.
Personally I wish they got rid of the transmission though. Less complexity would be a win in my book. (And maintenance.)
@@kylekleman just going off your figuring is fine but if you can't use the tractor a full day what good is it? I am sure their is at least one hydro filter maybe 2 so there is still filter and maintenance. When a battery goes bad I would only guess that's a very expensive fix going off problems with electric car batteries. So what money have you really saved in the end. What is the lifespan of electric equipment ( honest question because I don't know. It is something to think about tho) you still see diesel tractors from the 50s in use today. Electric equipment is to unreliable on its own but it does work. Look at trains diesel gets the trains moving from a stop or powers it up hill but when a large demand for power is not needed electric motors take over.
Like seeing the improvement in turbo johnny. I'm still waiting for a turbo. My 1025 engine stalls before the transmission quits. The R4's have never spun out on me either.
I was impressed with the pull test results on the Solectrac. The analysis on the 3pt was interesting in how you were just able to fit on the Heavy Hitch rack. Hopefully you get to talk with a rep from Solectrac while you're in Louisville for the NFMS and see if they're working towards a solution to that issue.
I pulled an old school 8 foot drag disc (no wheels for hydraulic pickup) with a Kubota BX 2370. I find it hard to believe Johnny can’t do the same unless it’s a heavy duty built disc. Either way great video!
Thank you for the testing display at you did on the machines rate equipment impress me made a big difference and show me the capabilities of each machine I wish more people show interest in it cuz I did and also giving me of wanting to look at 1 electric machines don't know where to get one but I like what you did thanks for testing it and showing it to us keep up the good work
Actually very interesting. Great job!
I think we have numbers already on Johnny X, so we need to see Sparky on the PTO Dyno!
One suggestion I could give would be to switch out the wide R4 industrial tires with narrower R1 ag tires. A narrower ag tire is actually going to have more traction versus something wider, wider is always better for flotation. But you don't want flotation if you're trying to get grip. :)
Interesting video as always Tim and we appreciate your scientific approach to gather real world data and information. Others may have already suggested this in earlier comments, but Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory runs their tests on concrete for consistency, at least they used to a long time ago when I was a college kid and had to research their test methods and results for homework assignments. That would eliminate the variability of the gravel on your test results. Unfortunately the results will be more predictable and you’ll probably be eating salad for dinner as the Finance Committee Chair seems very knowledgeable in science and math. 😂
Hi Christy, Always nice to see you in front of the camera. Take care
Great video!
Informative video Tim and Christy! I was definitely surprised! It looks like you're basically shoehorned on that operators station on the Selectrac...is it as cramped as it looks?
Yes.
Very interesting tests!
That rollout is definitely a flaw in the motor controller programming, with regen braking you should rarely need to use the mechanical brakes. I'm kinda surprised Solectrac is shipping these programmed like that.
I'm not surprised by the result though and I bet it will slip in mid range too, you've got all the motor's power going to the ground with that gear drive, where the hydros are built to limit axle torque. The old Elec-Traks GE made in the 70's only had up to 1.2hp drive motors but could snap 1" axles in the lower gear ranges with enough traction.
Overall, the tractor looks like it has a lot of potential but some changes would improve it a lot. Separate traction and PTO motors would be nice, making the PTO independent from ground speed like a hydro tractor. Then a treadle or dual pedal throttle would be much nicer than a fwd/rev switch (still keep the hand throttle for cruise though). Demand regulated hydraulics, with a variable speed pump or at least a pressure compensated pump, would reduce noise and improve battery life. Looks like the pump motor already is variable speed capable with the lower speed mode for just steering. Electric power steering would let the tractor run without needing the hydraulics running continuously too. Chasing efficiency will be the key to improving run time on electric tractors.
Morning Tim and Christy. Tim you could use your concrete pad for a hard surface for your pull test.
Add rim guard, wheel weights, ag tires and put in a field. With these tests, you do need to state the total weight of the machines. My electric Sears garden tractor got 1240lbs with 1000lb total including me on it.
Does the Solectrac have a rear diff lock? If it did, that may help with the traction issues a little?
Great test of pulling power. How about hydraulic power? How does Sparky's hydraulic pump test out? Does pulling power equate to PTO torque? I hope someone comes up with a viable electric tractor option, and I would be all in. I would, however, need a backhoe.
Interesting , Thank You . Such a fine team . Thank You for the fine Bible verse. In my opinion the limiting factor in almost any pull is traction .
Neat video. But would it be any different it the tires where the same. And have the same weight in stock operation. Have a great day.
I wonder if the rollout is a software tunable parameter. With a hydrostatic transmission, the rollout is caused by the inertia of the tractor fighting the no longer moving hydraulic fluid. With the Soletrac, it appears to have the same amount of rollout regardless of wheel speed. Maybe that's their way of preventing a sudden stop when releasing the throttle, and that would seem to imply it could be adjusted, either in the field, or with a new firmware build.
That's a really good point. At 15:13 you can see that it still "rolls out" even when the wheels are under heavy load. Seems like the rollout is more from a "throttle down" than from momentum
All in the software, guys.
Thank You
Diff lock? As far as roll out Deere 4 series also have a roll out but it is adjustable on them. It may be adjustable thru the dash on the Solectrac?
Great test that is amazing
Be well be safe all
Impressive that the ET? (electric tractor) pulled that hard with empty tires! I have to say I still like the sound of piston engines over electric motors!
But I’m old school.
Are those R1 AG tires in the background for the 3520?
What gets me is how easy it seemed to pull, looked like no effort at all to spin the wheels. Running your batwing mower would be interesting.
The e..tractor has larger rear tires..will this make a difference? I have a 1025r does not have rear ballast and regretted this many times...
Would the rear differential lock make a difference?
I would really be interested to know what kind of PTO performance you get with the Solectrac. Is it able to run your tiller and/or brush hog? How long before it needs recharged using PTO?
Be patient. Hard to test tiller or mower in the winter.
What’s the biggest ssqa bucket you got?
Johnny 5s bucket full of gravel has got to help with traction.
With my rocks and slopes, working without ballast can be a terrifying proposition. I prefer to use my backhoe on the rear, at 610 lbs, it's the most I can add to the back of Joan current.
That 'Roll Out' seems like Safety issue. I would not like that.
what about the quick hitch from rual king not sure how wide the area is for them on it but could be worth a look that is where i got mine from and feel well worth the look for you mine was under 100 bucks and works well for me
Very interesting. I wonder how long it would take to charge with solar? :-)
Good test
Let’s get started .
I never noticed the cheese burger in the logo until Tim just pointed it out! lol
Ouch! That last line she got you!!!!!
Yeah! Guess I need more salad!
More bucket weight = less rear weight. Did I win a CB too? Extra cheese please. Yum! I know you remember that now.. You did a video on it. It is so easy to armchair review. Thanks Christy for putting up with all his efforts that get you out in the cold.
It's in 4 wheel drive. It will be able to pull more than if the bucket were empty.
Yes, there is likely much more traction available from the large rear tires than the small front ones, so transferring weight from rear to front is not likely to gain much.
@@JCWren Not likely as the large rear tires can generate far more traction than the small front tires. Transferring weight fro rear to front is not likely to be an overall gain unless the front wheels are on pavement and the rears are in dirt.
@@LTVoyager Tim has a set of scales. It would be interesting and useful to see what the weight distribution is on bucket loaded vs bucket empty. While loading the bucket will take weight off the rear wheels, I'm pretty confident that putting 800lbs in the bucket will not take 800lbs off the rear wheels.
@@JCWren I agree. If I knew the distances between the wheels and between the CG of the bucket and the front wheels, I can calculate easily what the changes would be. It isn’t a question of 800 lbs taking 800 lbs off the rear wheel, it is a matter of is the traction gained by adding weight to the small front wheels more than is lost by removing weight from the rear wheels. I will guess that the answer is no, but it would require testing to be sure.
That tractor is shaping up to be a real possibility for our place
Nice test tim and kristie 👌
Maybe you could let a little air out of the tires so more of the tire contacts the ground. Or maybe on even on pavement. Do this have a dif lock pedal?
I think an interesting test would be to use the Electric tractor pulling a plow for a 2 or 3 hours and compare the ability of the tractor as the battery drains. Also, with a diesel/gas tractor if you run out of fuel you can fill the tank in a field (personal experience). How would you go about charging an electric tractor if you drain the batteries in a field? Can it be jumped somehow? Very cool episode. I personally have no problems with electric anything. My issue is and will continue to be Lithium. Sodium-Ion has the potential to be the answer. It all depends on who gets the $ for this. Hydrogen would be even better but how do you tax water?
Tractor pull with Tim ...going for a full pull. Have fun at NFMS !
I entered the NTPA pull, but I was rejected. They said I had an unfair advantage with Johnny X!
I can confirm that a 3046R can pull a 7 foot disk with some torque to spare (spun the wheels a bit, but that's also due to them being R4s for use on the lawn where it does more work). Just gotta watch the weights because it can potentially pull you sideways. 🤣
🍔 🍔 great video as always! 👍🏻🇺🇸
Nice job, T & C! Did you happen to see how much battery charge you lost doing this test? Cheers!
Hmm. Forgot to look. Sorry.
Well that was very interesting 🤔.
Question I don't know how else to ask tim a ? so here it is Why doesn't a load & go for a 54 " mower deck fit on my 2019 1025r or maby i should ask can I make it fit what is different with the 2020 deck?
Deck design changed dramatically in 2020z. Load n go does not fit yours. Sorry.
@@TractorTimewithTim thanks hopefully after market will jump in for older years !!
Morning Tim
I like cheezeburger too ... i am not "saying nutin" :) Thanks for the video ... shared with the misses
Just admit it Tim. Sparky has big balls!
Tim, is this basically the model A of electric tractors and i would really like to see it hooked up to other implements plows etc even brush hog even one using an electric motor
Yes, of course. Please be patient. It has been winter! We do not have anything to mow or till right now.
How does the whine off the electric tractor compare to the noise of the hydrostatic? Which would you rather listen to?
Why does Johnny x have more pull than regular? Has the relief valve been tweaked?
Nope. Regular Johnny powers out just before relief valve…where Johnny X keeps power up and forces some oil ‘around’ the relief.
when you hook an electric pick up truck to a trailer you get half the mileage . is it the same on run time for the elec tractor?
First mowing video coming Sunday.
Do you have any pavement that you can try it on?
Would it get better traction on concrete payment over gravel or soil
I do not think so. Additionally, it will quickly destroy the tires.
You should bring it out to our tractor pull. I’m sure we could find the limit of it’s pulling power!
Tell me about the tractor pull…where?
@@TractorTimewithTim we have one we put on at the Tri-State Gas Engine and Tractor Show in Portland, In. It is ran by BOOST Mission Tractor Pulling. This year our dates for the pull should be Aug 24-26.
Am I the only one who had to rewind and watch the explanation of Sparky's transmission again because I was so distracted by Beau playing in the background :)
So what happens with the PTO if the motor changes direction when you put it into reverse? Surely that would mean the pto would spin in reverse too? Or does the pto have its own motor? Interesting tests Tim 👍🏼
Ah ha! YOU are thinking ahead :-). Yep…bad news there! More info when we formally ‘discover’ that!
I'm guessing when you put it in reverse the PTO shuts off. Gosh, I hope not though. That wouldn't work well for the brush hogging I do in the woods.
Tim you could have the best of both worlds with your bet with Christy. My wife and I have a cheeseburger bowl which is really a salad with cheeseburger chopped up in it. We use thousand island dressing and pickles in it no bun. Quick and easy meal.
I thought there was something that made you special, congrats on being an Illinois grad. Two things, 1) how do the weight per axle compare? 2.) the whine of the motor would not be acceptable to me. Not just the loudness but also the frequency. I have the same issue with some hydraulic pumps.
Both tractors the same weight or different? That will make a big difference
What about a 3025d with the gear drive?
Would love to try it VS 3025e.
Ole sparky is a stump puller! Must have been the orange bucket!
what about a diff lock?
Coefficient of friction -- you may actually be testing the "Rubber meets the road" . Physics suggest that this independent of weight. The way to get more pull would be to add dual wheels. I'd be curious about temperature rise -- did the battery get warm? is the wiring hot? It's interesting that they put the 500 LB battery under the hood instead of under the seat.
Hmm I have no use for that electric tractor. Good test Tim.
How many cans of bud lite can it pull.
At the current rate…in a year or so…ALL OF THEM! :-)
Tim, what was funny was that in the first test when you said the left tire was slipping and then leaned to the left, the right tire then began slipping. Does the operator count as ballast in your testing?
Yep. We just need to stop the slipping.
You could try it on asphalt? Maybe get more traction. Possibly break something though
Call it what you want. That’s still really impressive
The roll out reminds me of electronic throttles on the new trucks. You floor the throttle and let off and it takes a good 3-4 seconds to register you let off. Always thought that was extremely dangerous, but I'm a old school guy.
actually im pretty sure all tractors have that feature. its designed to keep the tractor from abruptly stopping and throwing the operator violently forward. It is intentional and needed. I owned a cub cadet that this was broken on and when you would be in high gear and let off the forward pedal it would lock up the tires and skid to a stop.
I have a 2013 1025R with ZERO ballast weight. In 4x4, low gear at 3/4-full throttle, I can pull a 7x12 foot loaded dump trailer with a total trailer weight of 9971 pounds in dirt / grass on a slight incline. My tractor is stock.
Hitch is on the 3 point.
Tim, the Solectrac is a heavier tractor than the 1025R, 3600 lbs with loader. It should pull more. It actually appears to have a larger frame than the 1025R. Not sure it is a good comparison.
Take note though, the Johnny stalled at the weight that it did. Stall meaning the tires would no longer move. The Electric tractor still had plenty of go, just no traction. The electric tractor is superior to the little John in pulling power.
@@Itsa_Mea It is superior for exactly the reasons I stated. Friction force with the ground is directly related to the weight you have. Johnny spun the tires at higher RPM. Again too light. The Solectrac is a heavier, larger frame machine.
Yes, of course. Not a perfect comparison…but helps folks to understand the differences.
No, Johnny did NOT spin the tires once I had it fully ballasted. Watch again!
@@TractorTimewithTim It would be interesting to compare it against a larger frame 25 hp tractor. The 2025R would probably be a better comparison.
Tim please be careful pulling with chains and make sure they are the proper grade and load rating. This applies to any shackles and hooks. All of these should be stored to get proper air circulation and kept dry. Lubrication is also necessary along with avoiding dragging on hard surfaces. Inspect chain links and hooks/shackles before each use. Please consider this to keep the operator and bystanders from bring injured.
It needs to compete with a geared Johnny.
I am very curious to see an electric tractor running near or at it's full output power from full to dead and see if it gets it's rated runtime or if it has bigg efficiency losses. I'm aware this tractor isn't meant to replace a 14 hour day running hard diesel tractor but I'm curious how good or bad it can do?
We show that in another episode.
Do you think the rear tire size makes a difference in pulling power? I've seen older tractors out pull newer tractors with matching horse power, taller tires usually gives a bit extra pulling power
I think it is more about weight than tire size.
@@TractorTimewithTim I just wondered because we had used a John Deere compact and thought we could till a field with it, ended up having to use the old B John Deere. The farmer loaning is the implement said that tall tires with equal power would out work. No science, just wondered if taller tires on Johnny X might make a difference. I think he said something about it being surface area touching the ground
Tire diameter definitely plays a part. Think of the mechanical advantage you’re gaining
@@Lackieestatesfarm differential ratio plays a part and balances out tire size. The advantage of tire size is contact patch of a larger tire, but the ground pressure from a smaller tire may supply better traction depending on the surface. Each has its advantages/disadvantages.
Putting more restrictions or pulling whatever you want to call it onto that tractor is probably going to take more voltage causing less of a run time to do whatever you are trying to get done....
Of course it would draw more amps and lower runtime, as it would burn more diesel and decrease runtime on the Johnny too.
V1 of the internal combustion engine wasn't much better than the horse. V1 of the black powder musket wasn't much better than a bow and arrow. Tractors have been developed for over a century, electric motors have been developed for over a century. Just put those two development paths together with a good battery and we're off to the races! Thanks for the info Tim and Christie, and the lesson on how Normal Force means a lot more than we think.
Not surprising that the electric tractor had more torque, just look a electric trains for instance. They use diesel generators to run the trains electric motors. Same for the big dump trucks in coal mines. Great demo.
I think adding weight in the bucket is counterproductive past a certain point. By doing it you are adding more weight to the front tires while taking some off of the rear. giving the front tires more traction but the rears less which have more surface area resulting in negligible differences. What im getting at is you want the weight to be as balanced front to back as possible which would be hard to know precisely without scales under the tires.
Yep.
I didn't read all the comments so someone else may have covered this.
1) DC motors have 100% torque at 0 rpm.
2) With the motor directly coupled to the tranny (I.e. no clutch release). Then a possible reason for the long "rolling distance" is because the motor is still spinning down and the tranny is still transferring that centrifugal energy.
Hey Tim, I want to meet you one day, so we can talk about the different tractors y’all have. We live in East Tennessee just so y’all know
NFMS Louisville. This week. 11am each day Wed-Sat.
My question is, how long can it pull that weight before draining the batteries.
A quick back of the napkin gives me about a 6.4hp load pulling at 2400lbs at 1 mph. The 22kwh battery should be able to run for 4 or so hours at that load. Realistically, drive load will vary a lot, so the battery should last quite a bit longer just pulling. The real power hog will be the PTO.
I think I would have lowered the air pressure some in the tires.
You could use the basketball pad to the tractors to pull on and then you could use Johnny 5 to see how much he could pull on the electric
aah but tim, in real world situation, middle of summer maximum hours on 1 charge ( i believe it was 6 from memory ) will the tractor overheat the motor or battery ? will the max number of hours reduce ? when working hard pulling a box blade / or a plow.
We will test this and provide accurate real world numbers. Give us time! Spring is coming!
@@TractorTimewithTim cool. , i think everyone is thinking the same, Don't get me wrong i'm all for electric tractors, but they need a few improvements Longer lasting batteries and salt cells NOT explosive lithium fire starters. ( or should i say fire that can't be put out )
We made it Louisville Kentucky!
We are still in Vegas! Will be interesting to see if we make it!
@@TractorTimewithTim tell John Deere to send a private plane to your way! Tony Stewart's pilot is available!
Would be nice!
i built an electric tractor years ago out of ford 8n, you can pull alot and it always spin out even if you placed it high range . because of the electric motor. sure I might have about 15 hp continuous with my electric motor at 100 amps. but my electric motor and motor controller can handle 1000amp for 5-10 minutes so that 150 hp coming out of tractor rated for 20hp. and i ripped a transmission apart with it at that load. with an electric tractor it is either spin or go and nothing in between. to prevent me from destroying another transmission I put i a resetable fuse in. as soon as it hit 200 amps it pops. as you just can not tell what sort of load you are pulling .. you could plow in high range if you like. but you just be pulling so many amps you could fry something
Can you compare the solectrac to a tractor that has similar tire size. I believe electric would still come out on top.