This is what SC1 vs SC2 looks like
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- čas přidán 8. 05. 2024
- There is a mod called "sc evo complete" that allows players to play with Broodwar units against StarCraft 2 units! This is what happens when SC1 vs SC2, played by SuperNova, Parting and True
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#Starcraft2 #SC2 #PiGStarcraft - Hry
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Some random hero made a mod and did more for SC2's marketing and promotion than Blizzard has managed in a decade. What a baller.
true hero
That's basically the norm in gaming these days.
It's actually a team of devs, they're also remaking the sc1 campaign to be more modern and less like a 1 for 1 adaptation like Mass Recall is.
Blizzard admitted that Coop had more players than all other game modes combined, and it truly confuses me why they don't have the 3 classic BW commanders as playable factions.
As always haha
Hi! Thanks a lot for casting games of our mod! The mod is still being actively developed, and there is a tournament coming up being organized by ASL and GSL in Korea on the 15th which we're working really hard to make a large update for, which will hopefully include several major unit asset improvements and balance changes, so please stay tuned! 🐢
great job making this to you and the team!
Thank YOU for creating this mod! This was super fun to watch! ❤❤❤
where can i get this mod? i never liked the starcraft 1 engine, so i played mass recall a lot, i really liked starcraft 1, and this is a great opportunity for more, thanks
"oh hell yeah!" this is gonna be wild old vs new!
The goat
I dont think depots can actually raise and lower in this, I saw him keep lifting and dropping his barracks
omg good catch, damn adepts are annoying to deal with for SC1 Terran in that case
With all the new units SV2 brought on and removed SC1 units I always felt like they should do what SINS of a Solar Empire did with their 3 factions and split them into 6 factions with the Rebels being from StarCraft 1 and Loyalists from StarCraft 2. Already got the names.
Terran Raiders (TR) Terran Dominion (TD)
Zerg Overmind (ZO) Zerg Queen (ZQ)
Protos Khala (PK) Protos Scion (PS)
Husky is no more, HDStarCraft disappeared, we watch PiG now
Husky was back, but yeah, his long absence did affected the impact of his comeback, so he kinda fizzled out again
@@dumpsockpuppet5619 he deleted his channel
@@RubberFacee correct, then years later out of nowhere he randomly popped up on his girlfriend's fashion channel, then about a year ago he created his own channel (again), initially making preppy vlogs, then he went back to StarCraft videos... And now he hasn't uploaded anything (again) for about 8 months (at least his new channel is still up)
@@RubberFacee what the other guy said, but he also uploaded much of his old content again on the other channel
Don't forget about WinterStarcraft, Harstem, SC2HL, uThermal, hell even Esports Storyteller.
There are 3 unit types in SC1 (Small, Medium and Large) and 3 attack types ("Normal", "Explosive" and "Concussive"). Also, all structures count as Large when taking damage.
Units and attack types interactions are as follows:
- Normal attacks do full damage against all unit types.
- Explosive attacks do full damage against Large, -25% against Medium and -50% against Small.
- Concussive attacks do full damage against Small, -50% against Medium and -75% against Large.
Fun fact:
Terrain elevation is even more impactful in SC1, as units attacking from low to high ground have a chance of completely missing (~50% IIRC).
shields also take full damage from everything
We have mapped small, medium, and large to light, non-armored (no armor attribute Eg. Ghosts), and Armored. Also, we removed high ground miss chance from the SC1 vs SC2 version of the mod, however it still exists in the Legacy version (exclusively BW races).
@@caerei omg I love you
I believe it was a 25% miss chance for difference in elevation, or when hiding in trees or other vision-blocking doodads on the map (space station fans, aiur pillars etc.)
The miss chance from elevation is somewhat countered by not needing high ground vision - shooting units reveal themselves
I wanna see someone get an infested command center!
it is so cool :D
I wanted to see Dark Swarm!
wrr
You can get commstat station for scan or nuclear silo for getting nukes. Neither had a 2nd spell
I'm sure PiG will have more details sorted out by his next cast, but in the meantime...
Those Supply Depots do not burrow.
Spawn Broodling costs 150 and can hit any ground target except... Probes, Archons, Dark Archons, and Reavers. It would appear that exclusion list has extended to Thors (probably massive units in general).
SC1 Hydralisk deals less damage to small units, but it looks like that has translated to light units based on how much damage those Ghosts were taking.
Queens can Ensnare to reveal cloaked units. No need for an Overlord!
Spawn broodlings was reworked so it could somewhat work against Thors - its now 300+100vs armored, which covers most of the traditional use cases as a soft insta kill, while just being crazy strong agasint thors et al
@@Alevice Well, Spawn Broodling could one shot Fenix :) It should be powerful.
@@fluffyfang4213 yep can confirm the hydras have a big bonus to armoured and super low base damage
Yes, please keep showing these. I am an old school SC1 player, and -THE- way to play back in the day was to just mass a single unit, like dragoons, marines, mutas, and A-move without looking, throwing wave after wave like hammers against each other. It almost didn't matter what unit fought which other. I mean it did, but it didn't. Mutas could go toe to toe with marines, dark archons would snatch an opponents worker. Hydras were quite effective despite the "low-damage." Defilers were such beasts throwing plagues around. Such chaos.
Was hoping to see an infested command center in 2nd game
It looked like he was trying to do that as well. :)
6:50 much of SC1 firepower is often limited by the pathfinding limitations of the game. With SC2, units are smooth, responsive, and quick. You cant stutter step marines in SC1 like you do in SC2.
So yeah, even if you match the statistics of the widow mine, because of SC2 engine, they are much more lethal. Not to mention they detonate immediately on contact, in SC1 they take a while to boom when they reach the target, even if it's 1 microsecond.
I remember watching a pro match where a dragoon was able to activate a mine, step back, and fire to destroy spider mines, systematically wiping out a whole mine field. Without detection. I believe this was hard to do at the time, but possible for pros, but I don't think it's possible with the spider mines we see in this video.
Spawn broodlings in broodwar costs 150 energy and targets any ground unit with a biological component, this essentially means everything except probes, reavers, archons and dark archons, and spider mines. We don't see spawn broodlings being used on thors here for some reason so it seems they are immune to broodlings too in this.
My guess is the massive tag gets immunity, much like it does to fungal and forcefields. Seems reasonable to me, thors are so much more expensive than gols that it just would be so impossible to have mech anti air vs. queens without the massive tag immunity.
@@baronmunro1494 Ultralisks weren't immune to broodling in broodwars so we'd have to see how that interaction plays out if that's true. Are SC2 ultralisks immune to broodlings? Are the broodwar version of the ultralisks in the mod immune to broodlings?
@@baronmunro1494 Vikings still work as Anti air, quite a bit of range too, and immune to broodling.
In a recent patch, Spawn broodlings were reworked in a single patch so they deal large damage that kills most units that meet the criteria, but only really hurts thors. The energy was also slightly reduced.
@@KY-qy3kn but in ZvZ both sides can makes queens if they so desire.
Looks like the zerg figured out there at the end that he could use SC2 controls with the queens.
This is awesome. I thought we're about to see an Infected command center for a sec. More of this please.
Thanks PiG. This was really cool to see!
Awesome! I got hyped for this when they announced it in the GSL :)
Nice to see some games before then!
That some good stuff! :D
Thanks for the video!
Oh man, SC1, that brings back memories. Was just a wee lad in high school when I was playing that on a LAN
Was relally hoping to see you cover this mod. Its amazing seeing all the interactions with sc1 and sc2 units.
This is so cool. I'd love to see more of this!
Would love to see more of these matches!
Terran factory is really strong in SC1. For 75 minerals, you get three Spiders Mines and you get a free Vulture with it. In SC2 it’s even more powerful.
But these mines are strange. They have shorter detection range than in SC:BW and look slower. Still very powerful.
What a fun twist! One thing that might also be entertaining to watch is a pro match on one of the initial SC2 patches
This is fun to watch and I hope this becomes a regular thing on here and in game
This brings back memories of StarBow.
love this stuff. i'd love to see it become a regular event in GSL or something, just to see what sort of meta evolves.
Like the mix. Ready for more.
What a great mod! I would love to see a similar match on a Brood War style map and see how the SC2 races play on it.
Very cool, would love to see more!
This mod is awesome! Please cast more games on it.
Would love to see more of these!
Zerg is a completely different race in SC2 compared to SC1, as seen today.
I haven't played SC1 in like a decade, but I remember the Guardian was a cool unit. The queen as well, but completely different from the SC2 Queen.
From my point of view, SC2 Terran should he the strongest race, then SC1 Protoss. Those SC1 Carriers were amazing, but you needed an upgrade to get from 4 to 8 Interceptors. I think the 3rd race is SC2 Zerg. SC1 Terran and Zerg have their strengths and weaknesses, as well as SC2 Protoss.
These 2 matches have weird results because the players look like players off-racing and experimenting, except for Parting... solid gameplay.
I think these SC1 vs SC2 matches are insanely good. Also, let us see how Starcraft was originally played. A lot of things evolved, like creep spread and larva inject for Zerg, but the reality is that SC1 was more stable. You can't instantly die in SC1 if you start with 12 workers IMO, like in SC2.
The loss doesn't seem that frustrating because you put up a fight, had some good time.
6-pool was broken in SC1, but that's another story.
Great... this is just great...
If sc1 Zerg manages to get Dark swarm out it becomes the best race IMHO
@@enriquegarciacota3914 whilst dark swarm is absurd, it's a relatively static spell, so SC2 terrans can utilise it's absurd mobility with bio and medivacs to ignore it/base trade it out of existence.
Esspecially as SC1 zerg doesn't get creep bonuses, or the map vision of creep spread, so that hyper agressive bio style can really catch a zerg off guard, moreso when teching to hive.
And obligatory "ghost OP" comment with snipe and EMP being excellent counter spellcaster abilities.
@@Santisima_Trinidad well there is also plague and ensnare. Won't kill units directly but plague will cripple an entire army and ensnare slows movement and attack speeds really hurting the DPS of marines queens can also readily keep up with bio and escape EMP and snipe. Defilers can pretty quickly get their energy back by eating a few zerglings. Ultralisks and zerglings just have better stats as well with much faster movement and attack even without the splash damage cleave of sc2 ultras. Terran also might have a harder time getting drops in vs sc1 zerg given the abundance of super cheap hydralisks.
@@mwperk02 plague I'm not certain on, but with medivac healing existing your units can be healed back to full after being reduced to 1HP, depends on how long the actual debuff lasts.
Ensnare is just fungal growth. Fungal growth is very good, but i don't think queen's are much better off against ghosts than infestors are, and they don't have burrow to hide in ambush.
Defilers getting EMPd isn't a massive deal because of consume, but its still a temporary stop on there spellcasting, and, well, snipe.
Finally, zerglings and ultralisks. For ultras, great stats, still get sniped. Ghosts are just overpowered against them it's quite ridiculous. Zerglings, insane damage stats, not much HP, and there's no banelings. Infested terran yes, but those are awkward to get. This means a nice marine ball with medivac healing can still shoot them to death quite effectively.
Or, you know, blue flame hellbats. They do a lot of damage in a cone, it's built to be anti Zergling.
Now, I'm certain a skilled SC1 zerg player could beat a less skilled SC2 player by properly utilising the tools they have, it's far from an insurmountable deficit. But SC2 terran is a very solid faction, and i do very much think it has the better end of the matchup.
Then again, the mod makers are actively working on tweaking things for the SC1 factions to make them stand even against the SC2 factions, so everything i say is not the end all be all.
@@mwperk02 Zerg can also park Scourges around their bases; They spawn in pair like Zergling, cost 1 supply, and can kill any air unit that's not Battlecruiser and Carrier in 2 - 3 kamikaze runs (Those takes 4-5 I believe.). And despite being a one-use unit with 25 min + 75 gas price tag per pair, you are still trade effectively (in term of supply and resources invested) against every air unit in the game even when a few of them get shot down before they can reach the target.
28:09 Spawn Broodling worked on any ground non-robotic unit. So only air units and some protoss ground forces were free of risk.
That was super fun to watch!
29:01 The Queen's ensnare spell reveals cloaked units.
The queen hydra build was ridiculous. This would have failed so hard in Brood War 😂
Love this content taking over SC CZcams
This mode has been a blast to play.
Now let's see some Dragoons not stumbling about.
I always wanted to do a mod that undoes all the nerfs for each race down then patches that also adds back in removed units. Including Broodwar. Let's see what really is the most OP race. Unfortunately I never had the time or energy.
Yeah, more of this mod, please!
At a showcase of each new match combo...
Cast those other SC1 Vs SC2 vods!
I played SC1 casually and never played SC2, but this looks like a lot of fun. The vultures and the spider mines look cool
I'd love to see more of this, specially BW vs BW matches. It's wild how strong the air units of SC2 are compared to BW.
Regarding the spider mines - they do look like they are pathing slightly better than in SC1 - but that appears to be true of all units brought into the SC2 engine.
If the 150 comments are anything to go by I'd say we want more SC1 vs SC2.
This is what starcraft needs, a breath of fresh air! :D
I need to see how SC2 players are going to deal with the Scourge. And i'm really looking forward to "mirror" matchups
Spawn Broodlings didn't work on robotic ground units (Probe and Reaver) and for some reason, Archons and Dark archons.
In SC1 spider mines are considered structures, so they shouldn't be affected by stasis.
PiG vs JaeDong in this mod.
It’s rare for spawn broodlings to come in with hydras in sc1. Usually it’s hydra ensnare because ensnare lowers attack speed by a lot or defiler hydra for dark swarm/plague + hydra
the real problem with Queens is that single target spells in BW is rarely worth the APM to use them, they really only come out against heavy mech play. AoE spells are generally more effective and only requires one cast for big effect.
yeah kinda weird he didnt make any defilers
I wonder does dark archon work the way it did in SC1, so you would have separate supply for the opponent race with mind controled worker?
Yes, more of this mod.
I want more of this!
This shows strongly how different both of these games are to each other, how the armies have been downsized in SC2 and how the differences between the races have been mostly removed or mitigated.
A major change between scbw and sc2: if units shoot down from high ground, you shoot back but with a hit rate of 7/10. In sc2, you can't shoot back at all, unless you get the United revealed. But then you hit every shot.
Also, if I remember correctly, spider mines did a whooping 125 damage with AoE blast. But they are one time use only.
Where do we need make a petition so that the new BW Psi Storm animation becomes the regular SC2 animation in the next major patch??
Spider mines can already be killed so easily by a high micro player, that I think slowing them down would make them close to useless. They already have a .5 second delay after popping up, and the responsiveness of the SC2 engine and unit control means that it's easier to stutter step and shoot those mines before they can reach you.
There used to be REALLY cool custom map with sc2/sc1 mix few years ago. I think PSYstarcraft (rip) played it a lot. It picked up big and then quite suddenly disappeared sadly
Super awesome and fun!
THAT'S REAL STARCRAFT!!!! I LOVE IT!
Yes. More. Please
More please!
I would trade sc2 hydras for sc1 anyday. Bring back the 1 supply swarm! Great games, thx.
And I would trade SC2 tank for SC1 tank anyday.
Id trade infestors for defilers in a heartbeat. Infestors have been nerfed to absolute hell, fungal does negative damage and microbial shroud is the most useless spell in the game
@@OldSpaghettifactory89 fungal is still great for its debilitating effects. The damage was always a bonus imo. Still microbial shroud desperately needs a buff. It's sole purpose right now is to take up the space infested terrans used to. I think making it stick to a target friendly unit and blocking ground attacks but reducing the amount of damage blocked overall would be fair.
amazing mod
terran has a strong advantage between the 3 sc1 races because of the smooth controls of the sc2 engine. But sc2 has more speed and utility that can screw with the sc1 races, like the adepts, oracles, reapers. The early attacks in sc1 were mainly proxies with very straight forward ground attacks because early air like an oracle or banshee are non existent in sc1. The closest thing are massed mutas for zerg and that can take a bit to get up and running compared to the harassing sc2 air units.
sc1 units also seem to do increased damage vs shields similar to how they were in sc1
All attacks did full damage to shields. Which ironically made vultures a reasonable unit to fight archons with.
The only thing I'll say about the SC1 hydras in this mod are is that they're not hitscan like they used to be. Which for this engine is huge for SC2's targeting.
Queens with SmartCasting are pretty strong. They probably patch them to not work against massive since they should work on thors. Normally queens can use broodling on any ground biological or non robotic mechanical unit (piloted mechanical). Any ground unit from terran or zerg with the exception of mines should be affected, even ultras, and it cant affect reavers, collosus, disruptors or archons.
They shouldn't work on Thors... That's too much of a trade...
Objection: the supply depots need to be at least twice that size tone broodwar accurate.
That SC1T vs SC2P went pretty much as I expected. I honestly don't know what the terran does against mass zealot warpgate. Zealots are SO much better in SC2 than 1 in terms of damage output and the mobility with warp gate.
Damage types in SC1 is Normal - same damage to everything, Explosive - full damage to Large 50% to Small and Grenade - 100% to Small and 50% to Large. Vultures are the only Grenade unit.
With small differences Small = Light and Large = Armoured. Hydras is the only Medium sized unit, if memory serves.
It's called concussive damage. The units that have that damage type are Firebats, Vultures and Ghosts.
@@abunja Firebats makes sense, i totally forgot that ghosts have concussive also!
Yuuuhhhh, this is awesome.
From watching a couple of matches it seems some numbers are off, bit fun mod! Especially vultures seems bugged, they should do 10+10 light and it seems to be much higher
This is the first time I've seen SC1 zerg in this mod.
I was thinking SC1 zerg would be terrible. Like SC1 mutas are basically SC2 mutas but without the health regeneration. SC1 zerglings...yeah sure they are better than SC2 zerglings, but just wall and that denies them, and they get built off of way worse economy cause no larva. SC1 hydras are mostly just different, very low damage to light.
But yeah...you are not supposed to turtle and allow SC1 zerg to max out. That's not supposed to be a thing. I guess macro SC2 players don't realize that.
Interesting that it seems like they've chosen to not allow the Thor to be vulnerable to spawn broodling. I guess they are going off the precedent that Reavers and Archons don't die to spawn broodling, but lore-wise that's because they don't have organic pilots. Maybe they just did it cause it's an expensive unit, but like...SC1 Ultras die to spawn broodling, and Ultras are pretty expensive.
That's why I think SC2 should have Archons immune to neural since they couldn't be affected by spawn broodling in SC1.
A recent patch did a rework for broodlings so they can be used agaisnt thors without being op
More!
Blizzard really did the Zerg Queen dirty by making them ground units.
Giving them heal, ability to spread creep and increase production through injection? Its not that dirty.
@@tigera6Yeah what the heck is that guy talking about? Even after constant nerfs, the Queen remains one of Zerg’s best units in SC2.
@@diamondwave100I think it remains that way only because zerg have no other good anti air units until corrupters come out.
Did enjoy👍
Would be awesome to see a infested command center, but I'm guessing that would be practically impossible with SC2 CCs always being upgraded to orbitals and planetaries which I can only imagine are not coded to be infested..
Hope they just port it to main game and make 3 more playable races. Would spice the game up a lot
Supply depots should be 3x2 instead of 2x2... but IDK how you'd get Marines to walk between 3x2 supply depots though 😂
Bro imagine goliaths with good pathing lol
SC1's damage modifier is not bonus but total damage. Explosive damage, which Hydras and Dragoons do, deals something like 50% to small units and 75% to medium units of its 10 damage. Marines do normal damage, so it's 100% to everything. Concusive damage is the worse all damage types, with 50% to pretty much everything.
Also, sieged up Siege Tanks deal a massive 70 Explosive Splash damage! So yeah, you cannot break a line of siege tanks by sending 200 supply worth of stalkers and zealots.
Spawn Broodling is anything that is biological only. Terran mech has a pilot, which is why they can be targeted for the Queen's spell.
I wonder if Infested Command Center is a thing in this mod.
Concussive damage does 100% damage to light units (marines, zerglings, zealots), 50% to medium units (hydralisks, vultures), and 25% damage to large units (structures, siege tanks, ultralisks, dragoons). All damage does full damage to Protoss shields.
Infest command center is currently a thing only agaisnt BW CCs due to lack of appropriate assets and data for the sc2 CC. It will be implemented in a future patch
You can definitely kill siege tanks with zealots, you just watched Parting do it. SC2 zealots have charge so they take much less splash damage closing the gap and then the tanks blow each other up.
@@TheSuperappelflap Yeah, because those siege thanks were not sieged up. Protoss likes to Zealot bomb tanks with Shuttles because there's usually no anti-air in a mech army that splits the map in two.
@@tohothewriter8002 no. The reason protoss in brood wat drop zealots with shuttles is that their zealots don't have charge and the pathfinding is bad.
Sc2 zealots with charge are better than sc1 zealots in shuttles
I know Blizzard gave up on SC, but I’ll say it anyway: this should be made official. Very refreshing to see different interactions and gameplay styles clashing. I’m currently eager to watch Gateway vs. Warpgate, as much of the community has asked (at some point in time) to see meaningful differences between warpgate and gateway as a way to diversify gameplay (for example, lesser production time for gateways, as warpgates give you much more mobility overall).
SC1 siege tanks were devastatingly strong - but would all fire at the same target, so they scaled way worse than in SC2. I'd imagine these have SC2 targeting logic so should scale way better.
In sc1 I think it's just the damage took a frame or 2 to actually apply when a tank fired so the unit was alive for long enough for multiple tanks to hit the same target. Which is why you spread your tanks out way more in sc1 (that and they only cost 2 supply so you could afford to leave more around)
Queens can detect ghosts very easily in sc1.
These were really run
SC1 mutas where good because you could stack them really really tight by grouping 11 mutas with 1 overlord.
sc2 tanks are pretty much the same except they don't have that punchy sound effect from the bw and no one masses them regularly so people forget that they kinda hurt
What happened to starbow?
My 1st online rts was Netstorm I was in 7th grade
Spawn Broodlings only targets biological ground units. Any vehicle with a pilot inside is considered biological for this spell, so basically only fully robotic ground units like the reaver, colossus or widow mine should be immune. Not sure why the thor wasn't targeted, maybe it can't be in this mod, but since it does have a pilot it should be targetable?!?
I'm guessing that they made massive units untargetable. Otherwise it would be even more busted. Taking out a tank with a single spell is already crazy.
@@jazzyfish8066 On the one hand that decision makes sense from a balance perspective. On the other hand, it'll feel weird in a ZvZ (let alone any other matchups) with Spawn Broodling not taking out Ultras.
@@jazzyfish8066 If spawn broodlings can take out ultras, like in SC1, I don't think Thors would be out of the question.
Why did it take this long for this mod to exist ?
It clearly revitalized the SC2 from ground up.
How to play this mode?
Bring back the scourge and mutas that dont suck
SC1 overlord = detector?
Workers don't trigger spider mines?
Correct
Workers, vultures, archons, dark archons are all have the Hovering attribute, meaning that they cannot trigger spider mines.
However if your opponent is careless, you can use one of his units to mine drag into a worker line. Or mine drag his mines into his worker line. Mines still do damage to workers.
To ass to what @sneablbli comments, additional units have the hover attribute: disruptors, reapers, etc
Please let me see Artosis rage at this mod.
I think Sc1 Mutalisk have much stronger bounce and overall DPS.
Whats this mod called?
SC evo complete
@PiGstarcraft Thank you Pig, appreciate it 🙏
I think sc1 muta should be faster but have lower acceleration. Like bowser in mario kart 64
Why would you not show BW Protoss?
Starcraft 2 could have been so great, if they just stuck more to sc1's units design.