In case you are only after certain info ill make it easier for you and ill list the MAIN chapters below... :50 how to identify a 5EFHE engine. 1:51 do 5efhe have bigger cams? 2:22 size of 4efe and 5efe cams 3:47 removing timing assembly 5:38 where can i find a 5efhe? 6:16 what is the max hp of a stock 5efhe? 7:15 what pistons to 5efhe have? 7:55 compare those to 4efe and 5efe pistons 8:30 only thing i like about the 5efhe... 9:28 how much hp can a cast crank make? 9:50 500 HP Starlet in Australia 10:35 how much HP can you make on stock bearings? 11:10 bent conrods! 12:20 can you use different pistons on the stock rods? 14:35 CURB YOUR FACTORY FORGED CRANK LOL 14:50 Why do these engines have bearing problems? 16:14 Two sets of damaged forged pistons 18:20 identifying a cast crank vs forged crank 19:22 should i just use a regular 5efe? 20:00 differences in rods 4efe 5efe 5efhe 20:23 what is the difference between a deep sump and the wide sump? 21:20 If you enjoyed this please hit like and consider subscribing. Drop a comment below and stay tuned for next weeks video!
Hey Matt Berry, Excellent Video very good information. I got an American 5EFE 2nd Gen, it comes with two direct coils on it, rods are not Forged but also it is not the thing rod, it comes with flat top pistons and 3E Crank. I'm running it with small CT9 Turbo and it is as you say, lot of early Torque. I have a question: 1. How much WHPs can I have on 3E with fat but not forged rods to daily use with TD04 Turbo?
@@Freilynstr for some reason and i have no idea why, HP numbers seem to vary world wide lol so dont take my guess too personal... Are you saying 3e crank, flat top pistons and tod4? all in a 5efe? I had a td05 on the same combo years ago and it made 225 hp on 17 psi, E85 fuel. I wouldnt run any more than 15 psi on pump gas but each to their own... with a td04 however i have tried two different td04 turbos on two engines and they wouldnt make anymore than 180 hp on 20 psi. i tried doing this on pump gas (bowser fuel) and melted the forged pistons in both engines. If you want to make it reliable, stick to 15psi. Make sure the timing is set correctly and not too advanced, if you want anymore boost switch to e85. td04 is by far the BEST street turbo for a starlet in my opinion.
@@MattBerrymotorsport Thanks for information, I have no plans to go over 12 PSI with TD04, because in my country pump Gas is very bad, With CT9 running 7 PSI I got 144WHp and 160 Nm of Torque, I hope get a little more with TD04 at Same Boost, and thanks, i'll take care with timming
@@Freilynstr good man im glad you understand why good fuel is important lol as i said, forget my HP numbers, every single country, they all vary. But the boost/fuel ratio is the only important part. No one cares about HP figures if it keeps blowing up
i have a 96 tercel with the late 5efe with the piggy back coil on plugs, i want to do some stuff to make some more power to make it better to drive, looking for something NA, not crazy horsepower but something that lets it move out of its own way, would a 4e head and pistons make higher compression? and would i be better off with a stand alone ecu and some different coils? and what coils and ecu should i use? thanks, theres not much info or aftermarket here in the states, so it would help me a lot.
Hi Matt, nice vid, good info, especially the cams and how much lift is achievable, and OEM forged crank and pistons identified. Have used the 4age cam buckets and shim under caps? Titanium 4age version bucket available too The idea I was look at was a 4e-fte crank in a 5e taller block, better stroke to rod ratio, longer rods, flatter torque curve F1 approach. Still hunting alloy rods too. 1mm lift would be better but as you say its a small increase. But If that intake cam has the base circle grind down say 2mm then total of 3mm or slightly more. Motorbike technology could be adopted here, wonder if their is any rods from motorbikes that would fit? I ported the oil feed gallery under the oil pump on the block, for higher flow, it make a big difference, under high loading eg quarter mile attack.
Awesome film MAtt. I am waiting for another :) I have old corolla e11 97' with 4efe gen2. I have a question: Have you try standard rods, what is the limit of boost or HP, How much i can make on it? And the some quastion about the head bolts? (ARP=
Ive made 165hp reliably on a stock engine for years using a td05 turbo... ive never hit 200hp on a stock engine..., id need to upsize to something a bit bigger to make that power level
Hey - i have a 5e-fhe in my Sera, the engine is blowing smoke like a steam train so I have purchased a 5e-fe engine. From this video it seems that it should work ok - I have replaced the inlet and outlet manifold and distributer etc.. so everything outside the engine, but now it struggles to start and won;t idle nicely. Any ideas? Will the injectors be different between the two?
I was a honda fan all my live my race car broke the other day and i buy a tercel 95 5efe I think 🤔 what set up its good to get some nice hp also can I use a aftermarket plug and play ecu I'm trying to go turbo but from engine inside I need a set up to go fast enough 😅 love toyo now
So can I add the 4efte pistons to my 5efhe engine to increase the compression and make more power ? I’m planning on keeping it non turbo but just wanna try make a little more power out of it. Cheers
Yes and no, all depends how you drive it. 301 hp is the highest one I've ever seen, other people that have come close to that say the enging doesn't last very long... If youre planning to do it on anything smaller than a gtx2867 id say dont do it. Also e85 is a must. 250hp on e85 is fairly reliable with a td05 but even then the arp head bolt upgrade struggle to hold the head down. Once the head starts lifting and it introduces ignition into another cylinder its all over. Ive got a new video coming out about this soon.
Hi Matt, when you say the 5efhe rods can only handle 290hp for a short amount of time, are you talking to the wheels or power at the fly? Here in the UK many people swear that they can handle 300hp however in the UK people refer to power at the flywheel. I also have forged pistons on 5efhe rods and am hoping to make 290 at the fly. Hopefully they can take it 😅
Question. With the 4efe piston they are higher than the first gen 5efe. Doesn't that increase the compression and how do I solve the problem? I'm currently rebuilding my 5efe engine and I broke my 5efe pistons and I got some 4efe pistons and I'm stock on how to move on from there. I want to know if I have to change cranck timing and if I have valve clearance?
Hi you will need a press and some heat to remove the pistons from the rods safely, if youre unsure how to do it, take it to someone who can help you... they can easily be damaged... You can put the higher comp pistons in there, no worries at all. First thing to check is the piston height once installed in the engine, you may not be able to use the stock single layer head gasket anymore as the pistons may touch the head... Just get a stock 4efe head gasket and it will solve that problem... Next are you using a turbo or na? If youre in a hot climate you may want to look into e85 fuel. Crank timing and valve clearance will be fine
Hey Matt i'm searching for a 5EFHE engine because of the strong crank so later on I can forge it to make 400hp. But first I will get the stock eninge in the car to run my TD04 turbo's and run it about 200 hp I think (I assume this is save). Can I lower the compression from the 5EFHE (9,8:1) to the compression of a glanza (8,5:1) with a thicker head gasket or will i definitely need the glanza pistons to lower the compression?
I'm really interested in how you got a 5EFHE to make 300hp. I've got a 5EFE completely stock making ~100hp in my Paseo, and I'm dying to get some more power.
I have both engine at my place. I got a 5efe and a 4efte and I wonder what parts I can put from the 4efte into the 5efe. The crank I know but what about everything else ?
@@MattBerrymotorsport very true, but it does help spot them from a distance when you do see it. I saw a cynos/Paseo parked with the owner looking in the engine bay puzzled, and I noticed the acis intake, but many local paseo/cynos have 4e engines.
Hardly worth importing. You will have a lot of fun on the stock engine with a turbo, around 150hp reliably. You can then just buy forged pistons, rods, arp head bolts, valve springs and fit them to the same 4efe. Way better than getting a flogged out 4efte lol
The lower adjusting bracket for the power steering pump is different between 4EFE and 5EFE. And not interchangeable. This is because of the difference in block height.
Hi Matt.. I bought a used ebay set of 4E-FTE rods and pistons, pistons are legit but the rods seem sus... they're the same as a set of 4E-FE rods... are the stock 4E-FTE rods thicker than the 4E-FE?
Hi Jhonny yeah the rods in the fte are thicker than the Fe rods. Also fte pistons are flat top where's 4efe have a high top on them for extra compression
Dang I learned alot from this video, I wish we got these engines in the states we are limited to the junk economy engines unless you have a couple grand to blow on an imported engine or a even usdm 3sge or gte. I got an 88 celica I wanna build but debating on whether I wanna build my junk 3sfe with forged internals and drop a 3sge or gte crank in it or just save up and do a full 3sgte or 2zz swap. My ideal swap would be a blacktop 20v with ITBs but you gotta have big money to get a good toyota engine in the US. Its a shame toyota didn't give the good stuff to the US b/c they would be as popular as honda in the US b/c you can get anything for Hondas over here. Love the channel. Subbed👍
Also 2zz are pretty much a modern 4age, the 2zz has all the vvti stuff on it, which in my opinion is far superior than the old 4age... and not bad in price either. Remember when K series stuff was dirt cheap... once people figured out what they were capable of, they are stupid hard to get now and expensive. I feel 2zz will be the same soon!
Love this video but there's some missing pieces to the puzzle I'd like to add, (video froze at 14:08 so I went and dug up some measurements I took back in 2012) what you call "2nd gen 5e" is what I started to refer to as the obd2 model, because the 2nd gen jdm 5e uses a 1st gen head with 2nd gen valve springs, the obd2 model with flat top pistons has a cam sensor in the head, the jdm 2nd gen doesn't have that. The thermostat housing, combustion chamber, intake ports are different, I'd like to investigate them further but they don't exist in my market, although I found a raw obd2 head core, missing the spark plug tubes and looked like it never saw oil. I'm convinced now thanks to your video that these engines are almost randomly assembled. I'd like the measurements you got when checking the exhaust cam if you don't mind, mine are both bigger, but I did find a set with a stock exhaust cam while helping someone source a pair locally, which threw me off. I got mine from my first car which was a 1991 Toyota sera that I ended up Scrapping. What model/year is this 5efhe from? Forgot to mention, the 2nd gen/obd2 5e has the flat top pistons+different combustion chamber because they use the 0.24mm single layer steel headgasket, the jdm 2nd gen engine I have had a 1mm headgasket, a normal head(no cam sensor) but the pistons shocked me, there were 5efhe pistons in mine. When I saw them I rushed over to my stockpile from my sera parts and measured them up, weird. The crank is another odd ball. My sera crank had a rough surface cast everywhere besides the journals and the holes drilled for balancing, this crank from the jdm 2nd gen I have looks forged, the. Balance weights are smooth like a machine finish all over unlike the rough cast surface that was on my sera crank, it is also lighter. Wish I took photos but I still prefer the 2nd gen rods for n/a applications, the 2nd gen rods in my current motor are thicker (the neck piece for lack of better terms between the rod bolt heads is wider/closer to the rod bolts and has a gradual curve to the pin, whereas my fhe rods looked like the ones out of the motor in this video, they were thinner from front to back, but that, in my opinion suits lowering of crankcase windage/aerodynamics for an n/a motor (just like how the 4age blacktop rods compare to the silvertop rods). I gotta reload the video as it stuck buffering at 14:08 😅
First of all the 1st gen heads all have distributors, second gen heads went to the cam sensors. You cannot put cam sensors in the dizzy head and visa versa the head casting is different. You are correct that it seems toyota has just randomly assembled these engines and put whatever they like in there lol they definitely haven't made It an easy road lol Thanks for your info mate it means a lot
With your cranks though. If its a smooth machined surface someone has messed with it. The crank either has a 5e on it or a 3e. There is no in-between or any other possibilities lol it's one or the other
can confirm the 2nd gen 5efe (cam angle sensor) pulled from a 1997 paseo (nz new) had -the weaker valve springs (probably why the stock redline on the paseo was 6k) -flat top pistons -steel headgasket -cast crank (3e stamp) -skinny rods -deep sump I also noticed the head casting differs on with the shape of the intake ports on this head, while the exhaust ports are identical to any other e series head. all very interesting stuff in these comments boys :)
@@MattBerrymotorsport the jdm distributor less engines only uses the crank sensor, the 1st gen casting head uses a block off seal similar to the one infront of the intake cam (but its slightly larger as was esplained to me by the dealer) and there's a bracket that doubles as a mount for the coil packs in place of the distributor which has a small leg that touches the seal to stop it coming out. I say the 5e crank looks smooth, it just looked cleaner and more refined than my old one from my fhe engine, from your video, the tips of the counter weights where the holes are drilled for balancing is flat like yours, whereas the 3e crank from My fhe still had rough casting around the area where the balance holes were drilled. 😊
Some interesting info for you Matt and the E series community, no aftermarket bearing manufacturer makes lead copper bearings for E series. BUT the OEM ones are lead copper!!
@@NIKBIGMAK485 depending how much power you are trying to make its hardly worth finding the parts and paying lots for them. Good luck with the built though :)
Speedvision as far as I’m aware only offer turbo cams, na cams are different. If you can get someone to make you a set of big billet na cams they will be far better than stock.
@@MattBerrymotorsport I think there is someone whom could grind my oem cam. You say in the vid that 1mm isnt much of a difference. How much would be desirable ??? Thank you ! :)
@@MattBerrymotorsport oh right get what u mean nothing to crazy just daily drive that engine last another 20yrs thinking a 5k to 6k build with dyno tune think that possible ?
I reckon the 2 and 3RZ engine is the best bang for buck anything that Toyo makes for turboing right now. I've gotten 3RZs for as little as $500 and a 2 for $100 out of a Surf (needed a rebuild) strong AF bottom end and needs very little to make over 1000hp bar pistons. I think you are talking keeping them in the car they came out of, so I see what you're saying..
Ok so i hope you really see this, i bought a 1992 Toyota Paseo which I have been struggling to mod for around 6 months now, never had an idea what I could do with it. This video really woke me up like bro and now i’m 100% sure what I wanna do and as soon as im finished im gonna do everything posible to show you results.
@@MattBerrymotorsport planning on doing only around 150hp to 200hp, what pistons, header/manifold and other parts do you recommend? I’m literally gonna take your advice serious, my car is a 1992 Toyota Paseo. I hope we can keep in communication, I’m from Puerto Rico and these cars down here is rare to be seen well taken care of. So I don’t have nobody to help me or advice me. Edit: I don’t wanna turbo my car, is not reliable for me.
@@TomAnderson. turbo is reliable if you set it up properly. No 5e in the world has made 150hp yet, I met a guy who has spent over 20k trying different combinations and he ended up making just over 130hp. N/A is very expensive to make good HP 5e and 4e engines are terrible for making n/a hp, they were never designed to do so...
CZcams was bugging out, just finished the video. I can confirm that mine and a few other 5efhe's I've seen had 3e cranks but those 5es were all from 1991 vehicles. My 2nd gen 5efe came with a forged crank and fhe pistons. 🤣Weird jdm gems. Oh, and to add to the rod bit, the 4e-f(carb twin cam) that came with my starlet had 4efte rods. Also fun fact the 4e-f(carb) is the only engine besides the fhe that has different cams to the 4efe/5efe/4efte( besides the gen 2/obd2 exhaust cam with the trigger wheel pickup) they have less lift.
Im starting to think someone has rebuilt your engines using random parts. Ive had 10+ 5efe engines apart and they were all consistent. Ive had 3 5efe second gens apart and they were all consistent. Ive had 10+ 4efe apart and again, all perfectly the same. This was the only 5efhe ive had apart so I cant go making assumptions on those. I simply don't know for sure Thanks again for the info ricerguy
@@MattBerrymotorsport 🤣 I thought so at first but if so, they did a terrible job, my sera came with a rod knock (why I scrapped the fhe and scored the cams)threw a 2nd gen 4e in because that's all I could get from the importers. There was a photo overlay I had found when I started learning about these engines that showed the difference between the fe and fhe cams, in the photo is shows how the ramp rates differ (more duration) and the extra lift on both cams, which matched what I measured on mine. Ended up Scrapping the sera because... Well I live on an island and the car is a greenhouse, my starlet came with a 4e-f original engine which was overheated so I had to change the headgasket, that's where I started experimenting with the engines as I noticed the 4e-f cams looked odd. The lobes are pointy and have significantly less lift which explained the rev counter having a 6k "red line". The carb was junk so I managed to score Yamaha fj1100 carbs which I used to get the car mobile, then I put the cams in the 4e-f....but the engine had piston slap on cylinder 4 so it was all fun and games while I sourced a 5e from the same importer. The new 5e was clean as though it had barely any miles, the thermosat housing had/has zero pitting which was a shocker, and it still had oem Toyota pink coolant in it when I took the head off, Which is why I started using the stuff. I had and have never seen an engine this clean from an importer especially for its age, the oil staining in the head was unreal, a nice light gold/yellow tinge. So the fhe pistons being in there was a bit odd. From all the other 5e/ 5efhe engines I've seen through the local starlet club, all the older motors have the 3e crank and I figured it was just toyota getting rid of old stock since the 5e is just a 3e with a bigger bore, it makes sence.
@@MattBerrymotorsport ah I just remembered something even weirder. This one is a brain buster. I met a guy in the local starlet community who had a cynos with a 5efhe, he said it was a 1996 I believe... And I was speaking to him about how I solved an electrical issue, before this point I had come to believe that all 5efhes had the 4efte style distributor with the external coil/igniter. His had an internal coil distributor like the n/a 4efe. And the ecu said 5efhe but had 3 plugs instead of 2. I gave up at that point. Sometimes the things I see in/around Toyotas make me just not bother to figure it out.
@@Ricerguy haha strange. Remember my older video about the crankshafts too. People over seas are sure they are compatible, but it looks like they have different bolt patterns to me. At the end of the day I now identify my parts and go from there 😂😂
@@MattBerrymotorsport link to that video? I know the 3e/5e crank has a wider bolt spacing. I had to source a 3e crank to bolt to my 5e engine, ai've seen people re drip or slot the holes but that's sketchy as.
It would be interesting to see if anyone has broken them, and at what power. You would imagine they were changed to make them better, like most of the differences in the 5E-FHE
How do u remove gudgeon pin? I want to put 4efe pistons on 4ET crank and 4EFTE conrods and i know they are sitting there tight. Do u need to support conrod itself from underneath or can u press against surface around wrist pin bore? I was thinking of heating up the conrod and then spraying in some cold spray having one end of wrist-pin sealed. what sort of temperature difference should i look for when removing these apart? If i heat up conrod to lets say 200 celcius degree and cool the wrist pin with cold spray like for sport injuries - will it be enough to push it out manually? btw. U can get this ecu for like 200 euro around here www.ecumaster.com/products/digital-ecu-tuner-3/ Highly recommend these guys
In case you are only after certain info ill make it easier for you and ill list the MAIN chapters below...
:50 how to identify a 5EFHE engine.
1:51 do 5efhe have bigger cams?
2:22 size of 4efe and 5efe cams
3:47 removing timing assembly
5:38 where can i find a 5efhe?
6:16 what is the max hp of a stock 5efhe?
7:15 what pistons to 5efhe have?
7:55 compare those to 4efe and 5efe pistons
8:30 only thing i like about the 5efhe...
9:28 how much hp can a cast crank make?
9:50 500 HP Starlet in Australia
10:35 how much HP can you make on stock bearings?
11:10 bent conrods!
12:20 can you use different pistons on the stock rods?
14:35 CURB YOUR FACTORY FORGED CRANK LOL
14:50 Why do these engines have bearing problems?
16:14 Two sets of damaged forged pistons
18:20 identifying a cast crank vs forged crank
19:22 should i just use a regular 5efe?
20:00 differences in rods 4efe 5efe 5efhe
20:23 what is the difference between a deep sump and the wide sump?
21:20 If you enjoyed this please hit like and consider subscribing. Drop a comment below and stay tuned for next weeks video!
Hey Matt Berry, Excellent Video very good information.
I got an American 5EFE 2nd Gen, it comes with two direct coils on it, rods are not Forged but also it is not the thing rod, it comes with flat top pistons and 3E Crank. I'm running it with small CT9 Turbo and it is as you say, lot of early Torque. I have a question:
1. How much WHPs can I have on 3E with fat but not forged rods to daily use with TD04 Turbo?
@@Freilynstr for some reason and i have no idea why, HP numbers seem to vary world wide lol so dont take my guess too personal... Are you saying 3e crank, flat top pistons and tod4? all in a 5efe? I had a td05 on the same combo years ago and it made 225 hp on 17 psi, E85 fuel. I wouldnt run any more than 15 psi on pump gas but each to their own...
with a td04 however i have tried two different td04 turbos on two engines and they wouldnt make anymore than 180 hp on 20 psi. i tried doing this on pump gas (bowser fuel) and melted the forged pistons in both engines.
If you want to make it reliable, stick to 15psi. Make sure the timing is set correctly and not too advanced, if you want anymore boost switch to e85.
td04 is by far the BEST street turbo for a starlet in my opinion.
@@MattBerrymotorsport Thanks for information, I have no plans to go over 12 PSI with TD04, because in my country pump Gas is very bad, With CT9 running 7 PSI I got 144WHp and 160 Nm of Torque, I hope get a little more with TD04 at Same Boost, and thanks, i'll take care with timming
@@Freilynstr good man im glad you understand why good fuel is important lol as i said, forget my HP numbers, every single country, they all vary. But the boost/fuel ratio is the only important part. No one cares about HP figures if it keeps blowing up
Very good teardown & comparison video Matt, always good to see your content !
Glad you enjoyed it ryan :)
Grate video what’s your view on building the 5efe and what would be the ultimate goal to run of e85 and td05 turbo
Thanks for the video mate. Learnt a lot from it and answer a lot of the question 👍👍
Love this channel! Only just stumbled across it, excellent content....UK viewer
i have a 96 tercel with the late 5efe with the piggy back coil on plugs, i want to do some stuff to make some more power to make it better to drive, looking for something NA, not crazy horsepower but something that lets it move out of its own way, would a 4e head and pistons make higher compression? and would i be better off with a stand alone ecu and some different coils? and what coils and ecu should i use? thanks, theres not much info or aftermarket here in the states, so it would help me a lot.
Great video BTW, really cleared a lot up for me on these engines.
Hi Matt, nice vid, good info, especially the cams and how much lift is achievable, and OEM forged crank and pistons identified. Have used the 4age cam buckets and shim under caps? Titanium 4age version bucket available too The idea I was look at was a 4e-fte crank in a 5e taller block, better stroke to rod ratio, longer rods, flatter torque curve F1 approach. Still hunting alloy rods too. 1mm lift would be better but as you say its a small increase. But If that intake cam has the base circle grind down say 2mm then total of 3mm or slightly more. Motorbike technology could be adopted here, wonder if their is any rods from motorbikes that would fit? I ported the oil feed gallery under the oil pump on the block, for higher flow, it make a big difference, under high loading eg quarter mile attack.
Would it be possible to use a carb 2e top with a 5e bottom?
love the information, and i would love more videos like this :)
Thanks for watching 😁
Awesome video Matt. Just wondering if you know how that 2 step worked hahaha
Awesome film MAtt. I am waiting for another :)
I have old corolla e11 97' with 4efe gen2. I have a question: Have you try standard rods, what is the limit of boost or HP, How much i can make on it? And the some quastion about the head bolts? (ARP=
Ive made 165hp reliably on a stock engine for years using a td05 turbo... ive never hit 200hp on a stock engine..., id need to upsize to something a bit bigger to make that power level
Hello brother I have 5e 1st Gen, I want to increase the compression! So it is possible to add 4efe Big dome piston in 5e? Please Let me know..
👍
starlet mythbusters i love it
Thank you for another very informative video.
Hey - i have a 5e-fhe in my Sera, the engine is blowing smoke like a steam train so I have purchased a 5e-fe engine. From this video it seems that it should work ok - I have replaced the inlet and outlet manifold and distributer etc.. so everything outside the engine, but now it struggles to start and won;t idle nicely. Any ideas? Will the injectors be different between the two?
I was a honda fan all my live my race car broke the other day and i buy a tercel 95 5efe I think 🤔 what set up its good to get some nice hp also can I use a aftermarket plug and play ecu I'm trying to go turbo but from engine inside I need a set up to go fast enough 😅 love toyo now
So can I add the 4efte pistons to my 5efhe engine to increase the compression and make more power ? I’m planning on keeping it non turbo but just wanna try make a little more power out of it. Cheers
4efe na pistons are the high top ones, the 4efte are flat tops...That will lower the compression. You will lose a little power if you did that.
Not all 4efe have the thin rods, 1st Gen 4efe 88hp from the corolla have the thicker 4efte style rods :)
Thats awesome we don't have those in australia. Never seen it before. Thanks for the info!
@@MattBerrymotorsport in Denmark we don't have the 4efte and the 5e is rare, therefore we use the 4e from E100 corolla since it have thicker rods :)
And stiffer valve springs
The Legend says its almost a 4efte
@@MegaCtrlAltEliteas a Corolla G6 owner, I can confirm it really isn't 😅
Hi Matt,
without 2-step is it possible. To make reliable 300HP on the thick 5E rods ?
Yes and no, all depends how you drive it. 301 hp is the highest one I've ever seen, other people that have come close to that say the enging doesn't last very long...
If youre planning to do it on anything smaller than a gtx2867 id say dont do it. Also e85 is a must. 250hp on e85 is fairly reliable with a td05 but even then the arp head bolt upgrade struggle to hold the head down. Once the head starts lifting and it introduces ignition into another cylinder its all over. Ive got a new video coming out about this soon.
What do you think about 2e engine mate?
Hey man
Where did you buy those cams from?
Which ones
Hi Matt, when you say the 5efhe rods can only handle 290hp for a short amount of time, are you talking to the wheels or power at the fly? Here in the UK many people swear that they can handle 300hp however in the UK people refer to power at the flywheel. I also have forged pistons on 5efhe rods and am hoping to make 290 at the fly. Hopefully they can take it 😅
Excellent information to pass on to sil
Question. With the 4efe piston they are higher than the first gen 5efe. Doesn't that increase the compression and how do I solve the problem? I'm currently rebuilding my 5efe engine and I broke my 5efe pistons and I got some 4efe pistons and I'm stock on how to move on from there. I want to know if I have to change cranck timing and if I have valve clearance?
Hi you will need a press and some heat to remove the pistons from the rods safely, if youre unsure how to do it, take it to someone who can help you... they can easily be damaged...
You can put the higher comp pistons in there, no worries at all. First thing to check is the piston height once installed in the engine, you may not be able to use the stock single layer head gasket anymore as the pistons may touch the head...
Just get a stock 4efe head gasket and it will solve that problem...
Next are you using a turbo or na? If youre in a hot climate you may want to look into e85 fuel.
Crank timing and valve clearance will be fine
I pressed them on but what are the suggestion when it comes on to boosting my 5efe engine with 4efe pistons?
Hey Matt i'm searching for a 5EFHE engine because of the strong crank so later on I can forge it to make 400hp. But first I will get the stock eninge in the car to run my TD04 turbo's and run it about 200 hp I think (I assume this is save). Can I lower the compression from the 5EFHE (9,8:1) to the compression of a glanza (8,5:1) with a thicker head gasket or will i definitely need the glanza pistons to lower the compression?
cast 5e crank will still make 400 hp. dont worry about lowering the comp if youre going to run e85 :) You will need e85 for 300+ hp anyway.
@@MattBerrymotorsport Thanks! what gearbox are you using for your 5EFE?
@@jimmeeuwse3205 in his all motor gt he has a c160 from a Rolla I believe
I'm really interested in how you got a 5EFHE to make 300hp. I've got a 5EFE completely stock making ~100hp in my Paseo, and I'm dying to get some more power.
Big turbo and supporting external mods
@@MattBerrymotorsport at what rpm was the 300hp, and what rpm did boost come on.
Can we put the THICK rod from a first gen 5efe right into latest 5efe engine?
Yes
So much memories on these 5E engines.
I have both engine at my place. I got a 5efe and a 4efte and I wonder what parts I can put from the 4efte into the 5efe. The crank I know but what about everything else ?
Can I use pistons from 5efe into 4efte ?
HI Laurent everything you need to know is said in the video. Also yes the pistons are interchangable, but they are not the same.
Good shit Matt! Very good info
Cheers mick. Hope the video wasn't too long haha
Matt Berry nah I like the longer vids mate.
Forgot to mention the ACIS intake manifold setup that came on some of the 5efhe engines
Seeing as this engine never had the ACIS manifold I didn't bother to mention it. It doesn't help identify all 5efhe engines
@@MattBerrymotorsport very true, but it does help spot them from a distance when you do see it. I saw a cynos/Paseo parked with the owner looking in the engine bay puzzled, and I noticed the acis intake, but many local paseo/cynos have 4e engines.
Matt im looking at importing a 4efte in the near future to put it in a Canadian Tercel. You guys are so close to japan any chanche you know a guy?
Hardly worth importing. You will have a lot of fun on the stock engine with a turbo, around 150hp reliably. You can then just buy forged pistons, rods, arp head bolts, valve springs and fit them to the same 4efe.
Way better than getting a flogged out 4efte lol
The lower adjusting bracket for the power steering pump is different between 4EFE and 5EFE. And not interchangeable. This is because of the difference in block height.
Thank you Andrew I completely forgot about that. The pumps are also different too
Hi Matt.. I bought a used ebay set of 4E-FTE rods and pistons, pistons are legit but the rods seem sus... they're the same as a set of 4E-FE rods... are the stock 4E-FTE rods thicker than the 4E-FE?
Hi Jhonny yeah the rods in the fte are thicker than the Fe rods. Also fte pistons are flat top where's 4efe have a high top on them for extra compression
@@MattBerrymotorsport Aaaah I see, pistons are 4E-FTE but seems the rods are 4E-FE bloody e-bay scam. Thanks Matt.
Dang I learned alot from this video, I wish we got these engines in the states we are limited to the junk economy engines unless you have a couple grand to blow on an imported engine or a even usdm 3sge or gte. I got an 88 celica I wanna build but debating on whether I wanna build my junk 3sfe with forged internals and drop a 3sge or gte crank in it or just save up and do a full 3sgte or 2zz swap. My ideal swap would be a blacktop 20v with ITBs but you gotta have big money to get a good toyota engine in the US. Its a shame toyota didn't give the good stuff to the US b/c they would be as popular as honda in the US b/c you can get anything for Hondas over here. Love the channel. Subbed👍
Yeah its crazy how expensive Toyota stuff is getting, 3s are a great engine, let me know what you end up doing with it :D thanks for watching!
Also 2zz are pretty much a modern 4age, the 2zz has all the vvti stuff on it, which in my opinion is far superior than the old 4age... and not bad in price either. Remember when K series stuff was dirt cheap... once people figured out what they were capable of, they are stupid hard to get now and expensive. I feel 2zz will be the same soon!
What parts of that engine works too in the 5EFE Bc i gonna make my toyota tercel turbocharged its my first time turboing a car lol
5efhe and 5efe all interchangeable.
4e has different rod length and different crank
thanks matt❤
You do the lords work when it comes to my Tercel all these years later
Love this video but there's some missing pieces to the puzzle I'd like to add, (video froze at 14:08 so I went and dug up some measurements I took back in 2012) what you call "2nd gen 5e" is what I started to refer to as the obd2 model, because the 2nd gen jdm 5e uses a 1st gen head with 2nd gen valve springs, the obd2 model with flat top pistons has a cam sensor in the head, the jdm 2nd gen doesn't have that. The thermostat housing, combustion chamber, intake ports are different, I'd like to investigate them further but they don't exist in my market, although I found a raw obd2 head core, missing the spark plug tubes and looked like it never saw oil. I'm convinced now thanks to your video that these engines are almost randomly assembled. I'd like the measurements you got when checking the exhaust cam if you don't mind, mine are both bigger, but I did find a set with a stock exhaust cam while helping someone source a pair locally, which threw me off. I got mine from my first car which was a 1991 Toyota sera that I ended up Scrapping. What model/year is this 5efhe from?
Forgot to mention, the 2nd gen/obd2 5e has the flat top pistons+different combustion chamber because they use the 0.24mm single layer steel headgasket, the jdm 2nd gen engine I have had a 1mm headgasket, a normal head(no cam sensor) but the pistons shocked me, there were 5efhe pistons in mine. When I saw them I rushed over to my stockpile from my sera parts and measured them up, weird. The crank is another odd ball. My sera crank had a rough surface cast everywhere besides the journals and the holes drilled for balancing, this crank from the jdm 2nd gen I have looks forged, the. Balance weights are smooth like a machine finish all over unlike the rough cast surface that was on my sera crank, it is also lighter. Wish I took photos but I still prefer the 2nd gen rods for n/a applications, the 2nd gen rods in my current motor are thicker (the neck piece for lack of better terms between the rod bolt heads is wider/closer to the rod bolts and has a gradual curve to the pin, whereas my fhe rods looked like the ones out of the motor in this video, they were thinner from front to back, but that, in my opinion suits lowering of crankcase windage/aerodynamics for an n/a motor (just like how the 4age blacktop rods compare to the silvertop rods). I gotta reload the video as it stuck buffering at 14:08 😅
First of all the 1st gen heads all have distributors, second gen heads went to the cam sensors. You cannot put cam sensors in the dizzy head and visa versa the head casting is different.
You are correct that it seems toyota has just randomly assembled these engines and put whatever they like in there lol they definitely haven't made It an easy road lol
Thanks for your info mate it means a lot
With your cranks though. If its a smooth machined surface someone has messed with it. The crank either has a 5e on it or a 3e. There is no in-between or any other possibilities lol it's one or the other
can confirm the 2nd gen 5efe (cam angle sensor) pulled from a 1997 paseo (nz new) had
-the weaker valve springs (probably why the stock redline on the paseo was 6k)
-flat top pistons
-steel headgasket
-cast crank (3e stamp)
-skinny rods
-deep sump
I also noticed the head casting differs on with the shape of the intake ports on this head, while the exhaust ports are identical to any other e series head. all very interesting stuff in these comments boys :)
@@MattBerrymotorsport the jdm distributor less engines only uses the crank sensor, the 1st gen casting head uses a block off seal similar to the one infront of the intake cam (but its slightly larger as was esplained to me by the dealer) and there's a bracket that doubles as a mount for the coil packs in place of the distributor which has a small leg that touches the seal to stop it coming out. I say the 5e crank looks smooth, it just looked cleaner and more refined than my old one from my fhe engine, from your video, the tips of the counter weights where the holes are drilled for balancing is flat like yours, whereas the 3e crank from My fhe still had rough casting around the area where the balance holes were drilled. 😊
@@thatbeingsaid8702 the squish area in that head's combustion chamber is reduced as well around the valves. 😊
4efte turbo cams are the same lift and duration as 4efe/5efe. the turbo springs are different , stiffer and thicker
Thats cool ive I've never seen turbo springs. Thanks for sharing 😁😁
5efe 1st gen with 4efe pistons what's the results?
A tiny bit of extra comp.
Some interesting info for you Matt and the E series community, no aftermarket bearing manufacturer makes lead copper bearings for E series. BUT the OEM ones are lead copper!!
Wow great info ill cut open both and have a look haha thanks mate!
Is it ok to knife edge the 5efhe crank?
Never done ir before
So I can just take my 1st gen FE (92 paseo), add a few parts, and turn into the FHE?
If the had a stamped forged crank and the 1mm extra lift cam, then yes.
The external mods are a little different also but not as important
Nice, I've got some work to do then, thanks.
@@NIKBIGMAK485 depending how much power you are trying to make its hardly worth finding the parts and paying lots for them. Good luck with the built though :)
Is it possible to get a thousand HP on that engine if you are given the funds needed?
If we wanna dream for a minute lol, a crazy girdle and billet crank on Nitro methanol, then probably yes.
Anything is possible with unlimited funds
But what if its not turbo? Are billet cams like the speedvisions one still worth it ?? Plz answer bud!
Speedvision as far as I’m aware only offer turbo cams, na cams are different. If you can get someone to make you a set of big billet na cams they will be far better than stock.
@@MattBerrymotorsport Okay I see, thank you for answer! Any idea who would make such a cam maybe?
@@MattBerrymotorsport I think there is someone whom could grind my oem cam. You say in the vid that 1mm isnt much of a difference. How much would be desirable ??? Thank you ! :)
how much to rebuild 5efe and do it up for turbo?
Can range between 2,000-10,000 depending on parts used
@@MattBerrymotorsport how much does labor normally cost if i send it to a work shop
@@johnd4697 honestly depends what you want. How much power do you want?
@@MattBerrymotorsport oh right get what u mean nothing to crazy just daily drive that engine last another 20yrs thinking a 5k to 6k build with dyno tune think that possible ?
@@johnd4697 yeah 250 easily on a stock 5e as long as you are using e85. If it is regular unleaded I wouldnt go anymore than 180 hp or 15 psi of boost
I made 250whp at 15psi on a gt28rs. The Intake manifold also makes a lot of difference. You don't have any tools to monitor detonation.
In our own findings the intakes made next to no difference however when we changed cams we saw a huge difference.
@@MattBerrymotorsport I am speaking of the Twin runner manifold actuated by vacuum. I was able to determine the switch point from the torque curves.
I don't even have or want starlet, but i enjoy learning new things :p
Haha glad you enjoyed it...
Now join the party and buy a starlet
@@MattBerrymotorsport I'm preatty deeply invested in my 205 already but thanks for the invitation ;)
@@fila1445 haha no worries :)
What torque gun is that mate?
Makita 3/8 drive
Matt Berry would you know which model?
@@sebastiandysarski2367 ill get the part number
@@sebastiandysarski2367 makita 18 volt brushless 3/8 rattle gun part number DTW180Z-18V
Hey @Matt, I'm rebuilding my 4efte engine from a spin bearing, is it possible to use a 5efe block with crankshaft and remaining 4efte internals?
My 4efe has a cast manifold which is 4-2-1
I reckon the 2 and 3RZ engine is the best bang for buck anything that Toyo makes for turboing right now. I've gotten 3RZs for as little as $500 and a 2 for $100 out of a Surf (needed a rebuild) strong AF bottom end and needs very little to make over 1000hp bar pistons. I think you are talking keeping them in the car they came out of, so I see what you're saying..
Absolutely, I’m pretty sure they are the only petrol 3 litre ever put in a production car. Great engine cheap and reliable
Ok so i hope you really see this, i bought a 1992 Toyota Paseo which I have been struggling to mod for around 6 months now, never had an idea what I could do with it. This video really woke me up like bro and now i’m 100% sure what I wanna do and as soon as im finished im gonna do everything posible to show you results.
Awesome wimo lets make it happen! I reply to most comments so don't be afraid to ask questions
@@MattBerrymotorsport planning on doing only around 150hp to 200hp, what pistons, header/manifold and other parts do you recommend?
I’m literally gonna take your advice serious, my car is a 1992 Toyota Paseo. I hope we can keep in communication, I’m from Puerto Rico and these cars down here is rare to be seen well taken care of. So I don’t have nobody to help me or advice me.
Edit:
I don’t wanna turbo my car, is not reliable for me.
@@TomAnderson. turbo is reliable if you set it up properly. No 5e in the world has made 150hp yet, I met a guy who has spent over 20k trying different combinations and he ended up making just over 130hp.
N/A is very expensive to make good HP
5e and 4e engines are terrible for making n/a hp, they were never designed to do so...
@@MattBerrymotorsport so it means engine swap then, what engine do you recommend from the same series of engines?
@@TomAnderson. 4e and 5e are the only siblings from the e series family
CZcams was bugging out, just finished the video. I can confirm that mine and a few other 5efhe's I've seen had 3e cranks but those 5es were all from 1991 vehicles. My 2nd gen 5efe came with a forged crank and fhe pistons. 🤣Weird jdm gems. Oh, and to add to the rod bit, the 4e-f(carb twin cam) that came with my starlet had 4efte rods. Also fun fact the 4e-f(carb) is the only engine besides the fhe that has different cams to the 4efe/5efe/4efte( besides the gen 2/obd2 exhaust cam with the trigger wheel pickup) they have less lift.
Im starting to think someone has rebuilt your engines using random parts. Ive had 10+ 5efe engines apart and they were all consistent. Ive had 3 5efe second gens apart and they were all consistent. Ive had 10+ 4efe apart and again, all perfectly the same.
This was the only 5efhe ive had apart so I cant go making assumptions on those. I simply don't know for sure
Thanks again for the info ricerguy
@@MattBerrymotorsport 🤣 I thought so at first but if so, they did a terrible job, my sera came with a rod knock (why I scrapped the fhe and scored the cams)threw a 2nd gen 4e in because that's all I could get from the importers. There was a photo overlay I had found when I started learning about these engines that showed the difference between the fe and fhe cams, in the photo is shows how the ramp rates differ (more duration) and the extra lift on both cams, which matched what I measured on mine. Ended up Scrapping the sera because... Well I live on an island and the car is a greenhouse, my starlet came with a 4e-f original engine which was overheated so I had to change the headgasket, that's where I started experimenting with the engines as I noticed the 4e-f cams looked odd. The lobes are pointy and have significantly less lift which explained the rev counter having a 6k "red line". The carb was junk so I managed to score Yamaha fj1100 carbs which I used to get the car mobile, then I put the cams in the 4e-f....but the engine had piston slap on cylinder 4 so it was all fun and games while I sourced a 5e from the same importer. The new 5e was clean as though it had barely any miles, the thermosat housing had/has zero pitting which was a shocker, and it still had oem Toyota pink coolant in it when I took the head off, Which is why I started using the stuff. I had and have never seen an engine this clean from an importer especially for its age, the oil staining in the head was unreal, a nice light gold/yellow tinge. So the fhe pistons being in there was a bit odd. From all the other 5e/ 5efhe engines I've seen through the local starlet club, all the older motors have the 3e crank and I figured it was just toyota getting rid of old stock since the 5e is just a 3e with a bigger bore, it makes sence.
@@MattBerrymotorsport ah I just remembered something even weirder. This one is a brain buster. I met a guy in the local starlet community who had a cynos with a 5efhe, he said it was a 1996 I believe... And I was speaking to him about how I solved an electrical issue, before this point I had come to believe that all 5efhes had the 4efte style distributor with the external coil/igniter. His had an internal coil distributor like the n/a 4efe. And the ecu said 5efhe but had 3 plugs instead of 2. I gave up at that point. Sometimes the things I see in/around Toyotas make me just not bother to figure it out.
@@Ricerguy haha strange. Remember my older video about the crankshafts too. People over seas are sure they are compatible, but it looks like they have different bolt patterns to me.
At the end of the day I now identify my parts and go from there 😂😂
@@MattBerrymotorsport link to that video? I know the 3e/5e crank has a wider bolt spacing. I had to source a 3e crank to bolt to my 5e engine, ai've seen people re drip or slot the holes but that's sketchy as.
I Think the Cynos was just the name of the paseo in america, just a marketing difference. The cars still shared the same model numbers, EL44/EL54
:)
Wow cheers mate I had no idea haha thanks!
Two studs at the bottom back of the block to brace the ACIS Manifold is a giveaway for a FHE.
Great to know thanks!
so are 5efe engines better than 5afe engines?
No. 5a are far better
@@MattBerrymotorsport Nice one! I have a 5afe in my toyota levin, was wondering what makes them better compared to a 5efe?
@@treeman5590 bore and stroke
What's the maximum hp a standard 5EFE 1st gen can make?
We made 301 and eventually bent the rods. This may be the highest hp stock one in the world.
So a first gen and a 5efhe are the same? Or they don't share the forged crank?
Not trying to be rude man but I explained all of this in the video. They are definitely not the same
Just exactly how rare is the 5e stamped crankshaft.
Yes
Main caps are beefier AFAIK also
thinner though
It would be interesting to see if anyone has broken them, and at what power. You would imagine they were changed to make them better, like most of the differences in the 5E-FHE
Ha ha ha its like watching an episode of "Mythbusters"
How do u remove gudgeon pin? I want to put 4efe pistons on 4ET crank and 4EFTE conrods and i know they are sitting there tight.
Do u need to support conrod itself from underneath or can u press against surface around wrist pin bore?
I was thinking of heating up the conrod and then spraying in some cold spray having one end of wrist-pin sealed. what sort of temperature difference should i look for when removing these apart? If i heat up conrod to lets say 200 celcius degree and cool the wrist pin with cold spray like for sport injuries - will it be enough to push it out manually?
btw. U can get this ecu for like 200 euro around here
www.ecumaster.com/products/digital-ecu-tuner-3/
Highly recommend these guys
5s is better ftw. might not be able to bore it but you sure as heck can carve out the heads and throw boost. Wont even wink at 400 horsepower
Its also almost a litre bigger so can’t really compare apples with oranges lol
Be serious on your videos because we r watching it seriously and the cameraman should be more pro and more lights please . Thanks
We are dead serious
No entiendo ni ostia
😂❤❤❤❤❤❤i
Souuuj haha