I love to watch Mr. Carlson’s Lab, he has a knack for not only repairing old equipment (not just audio), but he usually redesigns the thing to be indestructible LOL. People call this change the Carlson effect.
Switched mode power supplies are not inherently bad, in fact they are capable of delivering more stable and noiseless power than linear supplies. They are small because they are much more efficient than linear supplies. That being said, it’s easy to cut corners when designing SMPSs, especially to save money. Skipping on conformity can result in noise getting back through the mains supply which is a bigger problem than noise on the output side. Generally the switching speed is an order of magnitude above the audio spectrum although slower switching speeds are often used. There is a good case for using Apple computers in a high end audio system as Apple don’t scrimp on their power supply designs, even their phone chargers are ‘quiet’ and that’s why they cost much more than a cheap knock-off charger. The public don’t care though and Apple get accused of over pricing. A lot of design goes into a good power supply and several PS Audio products use ICE power amp modules that have integral switched mode power supplies and these are really well designed. You get what you pay for!
PanAm Style Yes, they’ve reliably used their own switched mode supplies in their tube designs, using them to provide power for both the low voltage filaments and the high voltage anode supplies. This has superb transient response so I think we’ll see more of this approach in tube equipment as, not only does it offer better performance, it makes economic sense as well as the weight benefits.
Medical grade SMPS's from reputable manufacturers can be had a good prices. Certainly far cheaper than "audiophile" ones. They will go a very long way to getting rid of noise problems. I had an issue with the walwart that came with my Chromecast polluting my audio. Replaced it with a $12.00 unit from Mouser and the problem vanished. In fact, the cheap unit from Mouser is better than my $50.00 iPower unit that turned out to be a total disappointment.
Garden looks great Paul! You are truly blessed and thanks for blessing us with your videos, I've learned so much thanks to you over the years. The best to you and yours!
Raspberry Pi with a Hat board can sound excellent, a good power supply will help. I have no idea what would make you think it sounds worse than Bluetooth.
Na, I agree with Paul the Raspberry Pi solution is not a solution. It sounds horrible, but an external power supply does help, but it still sounds bad.
@@dajikbatarang1 na, no longer using a Raspberry Pi, as Paul said it was just terrible..., I tried experimenting with a whole bunch of things thinking it was going to be an inexpensive solution, including connecting it to a device that will switch up the input to my DAC. So I can use a multitude of connectors. Regardless I dropped the whole notion. It was an expensive lesson with cheap equipment. Mostly with time. You know, the more money you sink in to your stereo equipment, the more these types of things reveal themselves. My system just resolves too much, good or bad. I would say at this point, I will probably die with the equipment I have. :) or :( not sure. lol.
Hello Paul, I came across your video obviously because I am trying to decide on whether I should go one way or the other with linear or switching, and I have to tell you I just love your very subtle sense of humor, the " I haven't even had my first beer" LOL your a pleasure to listen to. Thank you for making my day!
Weird. So many people using RPi HATs with great success, and Paul says it sound worse than bluetooth!? Internet is full of reviews... I am using Pi2AES HAT on Raspberry Pi, which comes with switching PSU (looks decent brick), and that thing sounds much better than any PC, and think I would have to spend more than 1000$ for dedicated hifi streamer to get maybe a little bit better sound. So people, try it yourself before blindly believing what someone says on YT.
I've been using, for many years, a California Audio Labs amp with a switching power supply. Very quiet amp and a brute in terms of power. Absolutely a steal on the used market. Keeping it alive is another matter...
I just bought my first dedicated stream instead plug in directly into my computer. The improvement in sound quality is so huge. I've been thinking, upgrading a $1000 DAC to $2000 one might not be as cost-effective as adding a $1000 streamer.
does the efficiency rating of a switching power supply affect how good its performance is, now that we have bronze, gold, platinum and titanium certifications? or are the not applicable in this particular use case?
All the audio companies are scared of rasberry pi. It rivals anything even close in price when done right. My set up: linear 5v psu for the pi (version 3b). Separate linear 3v supply for the Ian Canada hat isolator/reclocker board. Upgraded clocks on the reclocker. Then via i2s (avoid inbuilt pi spdif output) to Nos Dac that is also separately fed with 12v linear dc. You can build such a setup all in one box for under well under 2k (up to you how much to spend on psus :)). Your system will beat Paul's hands down for a fraction of the price... Get yourself educated and don't only listen to people who have a business bias...
I bought a couple of line-level booster amps a couple years ago. Although I'm happy with those amps, they came with wall-wart switching power supplies, and those supplies interfered with the AM radio reception on my Yamaha receiver. Both the receiver and my computer are on a desk, and there were already several other wall-wart or "brick" power supplies nearby (of whatever types) for other things, and none of the other supplies had caused a problem. The company was nice enough to exchange their supplies for linear ones.
Is your line booster a TEC 780LC? I bought a Crosley Solo radio 2 years ago and I blamed the AM hum on the set and it's 1 amp linear wall wart plug, a gel battery mitigated the hum, and the other problem, a cheap laptop charger wiped out the upper AM stations
I have been using raspberry pi based network players and yes, with switch mode PSUs they sound bad if not awful. therefore I have designed my own linear 5v audio grade PSUs for them and now they sound fantastic
I suspect there is some confusion about the wide-band often audible digital noise that a PC motherboard can induce into a USB powered DAC and what the PC switch mode power supply itself does. What matters is that your DAC is powered through a low noise power supply separate from your computer (don't use the USB cable from your PC to power your DAC) and that you keep your gear grounded avoiding common mode current noise through the USB cable or other interconnect cables. Besides, modern switch mode power supplies are usually with low ripple noise and at a frequency that is outside what you can hear. If you have an oscilloscope, you can obviously measure how bad it is and also add filter components (inductors and capacitors) to reduce it. And if I had to choose between switch mode power supply ripple noise or linear power supply ripple noise at similar level, typically I would prefer the switch mode power supply noise, as it wouldn't be audible.
That commoning of the earth's using USB is one of the great limitations of a lot of DAC's I used to rely on a Toslink optical cable to give me the isolation, trouble is my current/new PC does not have Toslink
@@paulstubbs7678 Yes with an optical connection, you definitely can avoid such interference problem. But with optical connection your DAC is no longer in full control of the PCM clock. The DAC will then just need to ensure it doesn't introduce clock jitter. It's quite disappointing that Apple has dropped their excellent 3.5mm jack integrated optical out in newer Macs.
Hey Paul. I use an smps with my homebuilt class A amplifier. I get some incredible results with it. I think over rating it by a long shot helps heaps, and the thing runs at about 70kHz anyway, so filtering that seemed pretty straightforward with various small caps on veroboards.
He said Umbuntu not Windows :) BTW I send my music via Ethernet and de-galvanize by converting to optical and back just before the steamer. Works fine. I use a linear power supply for my streamer and the last ethernet switch (converter).
isnt there a power supply to convert from optical back to ethernet? How is that de-galvanized? If that is de-galvanized then you shouldn't need to do optical in the 1st place.
A lot of the cheap-and-nasty switched-mode power supplies use feedback across the isolation gap. If you're going down the switched-mode road, I think it's good to also look at the quoted "ground leakage current". 10-20 micro-amps, not too bad. 100-200 micro-amps plus, not so good!
I upgraded to a better switch mode power supply (seasonics) for my computer, it made a difference, I also have some USB outlets with power filtering, they make a difference, and a good power cord also made a difference.
I do like to use linear power supply to my small audio projects, so much cleaner if a linear voltage regulator is also added to the circuit (note: small project, 1W-5W output power, efficiency is not required). The switching ones are so efficient and a lot smaller, I try to use them with Li-Ion battery powered small projects to recharge the batteries.
I use rasberry pi with allo digione signature hat and allo shanti as linear supply combined with qutest dac and sbooster mkii for qutest. Magnificent results
the filtering after the switching can be designed well enough to remove and noise on the power and the dc smoothing can be of enough capacitance to eliminate ripple but the DACs and the signal path and device grounding will make a much greater and more likely point of issue in regards to noise and distortion.
Besides the cost, size and weight of a linear regulated power supply for a modern x86 computer, it is futile because there is a giant switch mode power supply on the motherboard next to the CPU to produce the very low (around 1.2-1.5V) voltage, high current (100++ Amps) it needs to operate. It is not uncommon to see 16 sets of powerFETS and accompanying inductors and capacitors. The newest style PC ATX12V motherboards operate from a single 12V power supply thus the motherboard has even more switch mode power supplies to produce other voltages such as the 5V and 3.3V.
Better off not worrying about the PC, just use an external DAC/streamer so all the noise stays in the PC. I liked Toslink for a while, as it optically isolates the PC. (current PC does not have it - darn) Be wary as some DAC's do a really poor job of isolating the USB etc. (or removing PC generated timing jitter) because you end up with the two devices tied together via their earth's.
I use USB isolators for safety reasons between PCs and test equipment or DUTs (Device Under Test). They're a simple dongle that fits between the PC and target device and provides about 1kV isolation.
WHAT Raspberry Pi is Paul or Darren talking about, who built it, and what software was used? My DIY Raspberry Pi streamers sound fantastic! Bryston seems to think highly of Raspberry Pi too. Bryston has 3 products that use the Raspberry Pi internally: The Bryston BDP-Pi streamer, BDA-3.14 Streamer/DAC, and the BR-20 Preamp/Streamer/DAC. My Sonore microRendu streamer doesn't sound any better than my cheapie DIY Raspberry Pi. BTW the "open source" end-point software that Paul speaks of for use with Roon is not actually "open source". It's called Roon Bridge and Roon makes it available FREE of charge for those who use Roon. I run Roon Bridge on my DIY Raspberry Pi streamers.
To sidestep the problem entirely, use a quality digital transport (USB to SPDIF over Coax) with a separate battery, such as the Audiophilleo with PurePower - magic!
I've just "finished" making three beautiful looking regulated PSU's - great caps, nice hook up wire, shiny solder - the works. Even experimented with different transformers and settled on a combination of R-core and toroidal. I assessed, adjusted, assessed, combined lower capacity caps in stead of one larger for just the "right" tone, at each stage ect. BUT, have to say, as linear as it is, as detailed, deep and rich, there's something missing. I honestly think switch mode PSU's are more dynamic and exicting. Well well, was fun. I wont make a switch mode PSU, i think ill die. p.s not bragging - trust me these parts took ages to save up for!
It will end up feeding a switching power supply either way - inside the motherboard 😛. Intel CPUs are practically impossible to be feed from a linear directly because they request the voltage they want according to their load.
Earlier Raspi's used linear power supplies, later ones were switching. The DAC in the PI is kind of rubbish. By the time you have gotten up to a full small form factor PC the CPU has multiple switching supplies just to provide it's various voltage rails (+3.3V, 2V, 1.3V....) the point is that even if you change the power supply you are unlikely to fully escape switching noise. The good news is that while you can't fix the mother board noise you a better quality power supply will have lower common mode noise and a good amplifier will have a differential input that will reject most (if not nearly all) of the remaining common mode noise.
Rasberry PIs are NOT $12 to $20 dollars devices. They are more like $35 to $60 dollars. You could find one that cheap but will be a very old design/CPU with low memory.
I Believe the Pi Zero is popular for this particular audio application. They're still quite cheap, though by the time you get a power supply, case, cables, etc., you're in for more than $20. They're fun and still relatively inexpensive to mess around with.
Some noise good to have for little warm sound bass . If we over done with power cables , power supplies and power conditioner.. that’s it it’s going to sound dry or analytical or we get something is missing feeling ..
"Don Payne 2 weeks ago I've just "finished" making three beautiful looking regulated PSU's - great caps, nice hook up wire, shiny solder - the works. Even experimented with different transformers and settled on a combination of R-core and toroidal. I assessed, adjusted, assessed, combined lower capacity caps in stead of one larger for just the "right" tone, at each stage ect. BUT, have to say, as linear as it is, as detailed, deep and rich, there's something missing. I honestly think switch mode PSU's are more dynamic and excicting. Well well, was fun. I wont make a switch mode PSU, i think ill die. p.s not bragging - trust me these parts took ages to save up for!"
I'm learning that computer audio with all its associated noise needs to be a purposed built machine. If it's not, all these endless upgrades and fixes to its many parts are just band aids. You may get lucky with a combination that sounds ok, but their are just too many pieces that are not needed for streaming. It does sorta puzzle me in a way why a raspberry pie with its low power requirements doesn't sound good. Another case of taking a off the shelf pc that is no way optimized for audio. Convenient yes. Hopefully better and cheaper more optimized solutions will come in the furure.
@@scottyo64 But in the video there is no breeze at all. I can see one plant behind him, that is moving a little around 1:24 for a while but everything else is dead still.
Boulder gets windy, but not so much in midsummer. Besides, Paul probably has noise harvesters set on the fences around his property to absorb the unwanted energy. Based on his description of that product, it should be very effective.
The Raspberry Pi itself is noisy but there are things you can do to make them sound good. First off, the standard switching wall wart that Raspberry sells is very noisy and is worse than Bluetooth. The iFi power supply was designed for audio use and is a good value at $50. Second, not all HATs are created equal. Allo has the best reputation and they make two SPDIF HATs, the Digi One
And the Digi One Plus. The difference is in the level of isolation offered, the Plus has complete galvanic isolation and used a second power supply for the SPDIF. I have the Digi One with the iFi supply and recommend listening to this before condemning all Pi based streamers.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Hey Paul, are you growing 'heirloom' tomatoes? If not, you should give 'em a try. The flavor is unbelieveable! Like the tomatoes my mom used to grow when I was a kid. Not only that, but they have an arguably better nutritional profile, as there are more varieties available. 😊 Edit: Also, remember that tomatoes require a lot of water.
Paul, I don't know why your experience with the Raspberry Pi was so horrible. I also have Roon Labs and I have several Raspberry Pi's that are running Ropiee. Currently I'm using just the USB output to a DAC. But I've also used various HATs (IQAudio, HIfIBerry, etc). They sound fantastic! Specially when using the USB output. I do use the heavily filtered iFi 5v power supply. But, I don't think they make that much of an improvement.
Let's have a little MUSIC, played on a Hi-Fi with a LINEAR POWER SUPPLY! 🎶 You say to-may-to, and I say to-mar-to 🎶 You say po-tay-to, and I say po-tar-to 🎶 To-may-to, to-mar-to, po-tay-to, po-tar-to 🎶 Let's turn the Hi-Fi off! 🎶 😂😂😂
Only use Pi for background music. Build a 3 Zoone amp with them. So, 6x30w Class-D. And it doing it's job as it should. But I use Logitech Media Server.
I use a Pi 3b with an audio hat with a SPDIF hat as Paul described. I run Moode Audio and stream to it with Qobuz.. Some people prefer Volumio for the software. I think it sounds excellent, certainly better than Bluetooth. I'd like to hear an engineer explain why digital sources sending bit perfect signals sound different (do they?) I suppose it could be jitter, but I don't hear it. Outside of the Chromecast Audio, other streamers get far more expensive very quickly.
I'm using a Pi1B+ with an Allo DigiOne Signature S/PDIF HAT supplied with batteries (even better then linear PS !), its S/PDIF output being connect to a high-end external "R2R" DAC. This less than 300€ "S/PDIF package" sounds better then a 2500€ expensive (appreciated) LINN streamer (either using its analog outputs or when S/PDIF connected to the same external DAC) ... If your Pi 3b is not already supplied by a good linear PS I would encourage you to do so. I use the first Pi1 because no Wifi nor BT and its lower CPU frequency guaranties less potential negative influence (jitter ...) on the sound. Only drawback is the longer starting / shutdown times but in general I let it 24/24 powered. And no thermal issues as with Pi3 or worse Pi4 !!! I'm really very happy with it. Sound is excellent and it is very reliable. But with all my respect to Paul and PS Audio I can understand that HiFi manufacturers are generally not that much appreciating the Raspberry Pi competitor audio capacities ...
@@paulstubbs7678 Hi Paul :-), if you can invest in an "DigiOne" S/PDIF HAT from manufacturer Allo (< 100 USD, www.allo.com/sparky/digione.html) or better in the same "DigiOne Signature" as me with two separate power supplies (239 USD, www.allo.com/sparky/digione-signature.html) and supply its Audio part with small 18650 batteries (those used for electronic cigarettes) you should improve the SQ significantly, especially if your external DAC is good (and your whole system resolving enough). But I also experiented the first mentioned simple DigiOne card and found it better than HiFi Berry's ones (that for sure are cheaper, but IMO the price difference is largely justified). Btw for the control I use Moodeaudio as mentioned by @Virdevir (and also happy with it) but IMHO the software plays a second role in the sound differences vs the applied S/PDIF HAT Card. Then, as I'm a perfectionist I also use a battery supply for the 5Vdc RPi + HAT supply (12V dry battery + 5Vdc linear converter) and found an improvement even vs linear PS. But then you must also buy a 12V batterie charger (e.g. those intended for motorcycles) - of course to power off during listening. Good luck, Stéphane
The raspberry pi streamers are about 200 max with housings all in and have truly engineering sound power cleaning. The problem is these compete with the big guys thousands of dollar products which are mostly totally snake Oil.
Switch mode power supplies much better specially for Valve amplifiers. it's got to run at 120 kilohertz or higher medical grade power suppliers are generally better. and if it's in a computer you need to isolate it away from the computer have it out on the pc in a separate metal box and a ferrite bead one turn on the positives 12 and 5 volt Rail any positive rail 1uF 275v safety capacitor between the positive and neutral, in some metal shielded conduit a shower hose metal conduit would be fine and Earth, on the input cable to computer to isolate any EMI interference coming up the cable. If you're using your PC as a media device storage use a mechanical hard drive virtually silent a lot less noisy than SSD what is in its nature is noisy.
Hi sweda! Good to see you again, still bragging on about your SMPS? 😜 Btw, SSD stands for Solid State Drive, it means it's solid. No mechanically moving parts. No mechanical noise.
People really don't understand how Digital audio works... You shouldn't be worried about noise in digital audio! It's digital, a digital signal either works or it doesn't, there's no such thing as a noisy digital signal! (Yes, I know that's not entirely accurate but it's the end result) The only thing you need to worry is at the analogue stage of the connection. And that's suuuch an easy fix! Just don't use the integrated DAC in your Computer! Buy a separate one, with a separate power supply and that's it! Run a toslink fiber cable to it and you're COMPLETELY decoupled from the noise in your PC. A data USB cable wouldn't be bad either.
Is this perspective or is Paul's vegetarian diet causing him to shrink. However, beer is vegan. "German beer is chemical free." -- Mark Knopfler (2002) "Why Eye Man"
So... don't use computers for music. Mac Minis are no better than any others. Definitely don't spend good money on a quality power supply for a computer. The computer will defeat whatever improvements the power supply achieves. Don't use standard Raspberry Pis. They're no good. However, some companies have upgraded and improved the Raspberry Pi's circuitry and construction and those can be gorgeous. Also, basically, never use switch mode supplies. Theoretically there are some good ones out there, but odds are you'll never see one. Linear power supplies are expensive. So are streamers. You're better off using a CD player than a bad streaming arrangement. Here's a very good Raspberry Pi based streamer: www.musicdirect.com/network-player/Pro-Ject-Stream-Box-S2-Ultra Here's a very good linear power supply: upscaleaudio.com/products/sbooster-botw-p-p-mkii-power-supply I appreciate that this stuff isn't cheap. I made these a long term goal some time ago and I'm very happy with them now. Forgive my oversimplifications in this post. PS: we have all lived with switch mode power supplies, god knows, including me. Replace them if and when you can.
...And What have we learned about linear vs. switching power supplies? That he's a veggie. Garden is a big deal to them. Bought a power supply... Talking HIGH END here. Hadn't had a beer yet. Found a rock. SPDIF Doodle berry pie. Not "a Windows guy" Ok bye bye 😶
I love to watch Mr. Carlson’s Lab, he has a knack for not only repairing old equipment (not just audio), but he usually redesigns the thing to be indestructible LOL. People call this change the Carlson effect.
Switched mode power supplies are not inherently bad, in fact they are capable of delivering more stable and noiseless power than linear supplies. They are small because they are much more efficient than linear supplies. That being said, it’s easy to cut corners when designing SMPSs, especially to save money. Skipping on conformity can result in noise getting back through the mains supply which is a bigger problem than noise on the output side. Generally the switching speed is an order of magnitude above the audio spectrum although slower switching speeds are often used. There is a good case for using Apple computers in a high end audio system as Apple don’t scrimp on their power supply designs, even their phone chargers are ‘quiet’ and that’s why they cost much more than a cheap knock-off charger. The public don’t care though and Apple get accused of over pricing. A lot of design goes into a good power supply and several PS Audio products use ICE power amp modules that have integral switched mode power supplies and these are really well designed. You get what you pay for!
AnalogueGround Doesn’t Manley use switching power supplies? I can’t remember for sure but I think they build their own, of course.
PanAm Style Yes, they’ve reliably used their own switched mode supplies in their tube designs, using them to provide power for both the low voltage filaments and the high voltage anode supplies. This has superb transient response so I think we’ll see more of this approach in tube equipment as, not only does it offer better performance, it makes economic sense as well as the weight benefits.
Medical grade SMPS's from reputable manufacturers can be had a good prices. Certainly far cheaper than "audiophile" ones. They will go a very long way to getting rid of noise problems.
I had an issue with the walwart that came with my Chromecast polluting my audio. Replaced it with a $12.00 unit from Mouser and the problem vanished. In fact, the cheap unit from Mouser is better than my $50.00 iPower unit that turned out to be a total disappointment.
Garden looks great Paul! You are truly blessed and thanks for blessing us with your videos, I've learned so much thanks to you over the years. The best to you and yours!
When's the last time someone called a system "IBM compatible"?
Raspberry Pi with a Hat board can sound excellent, a good power supply will help. I have no idea what would make you think it sounds worse than Bluetooth.
A linear power supply or rechargeable batteries work great on rPi
Na, I agree with Paul the Raspberry Pi solution is not a solution. It sounds horrible, but an external power supply does help, but it still sounds bad.
@@mesonto are you using usb directly?
@@dajikbatarang1 na, no longer using a Raspberry Pi, as Paul said it was just terrible..., I tried experimenting with a whole bunch of things thinking it was going to be an inexpensive solution, including connecting it to a device that will switch up the input to my DAC. So I can use a multitude of connectors.
Regardless I dropped the whole notion. It was an expensive lesson with cheap equipment. Mostly with time.
You know, the more money you sink in to your stereo equipment, the more these types of things reveal themselves. My system just resolves too much, good or bad.
I would say at this point, I will probably die with the equipment I have. :) or :( not sure. lol.
@@mesonto what streaming solution did you end up settling with?
Hello Paul, I came across your video obviously because I am trying to decide on whether I should go one way or the other with linear or switching, and I have to tell you I just love your very subtle sense of humor, the " I haven't even had my first beer" LOL your a pleasure to listen to. Thank you for making my day!
Weird. So many people using RPi HATs with great success, and Paul says it sound worse than bluetooth!? Internet is full of reviews...
I am using Pi2AES HAT on Raspberry Pi, which comes with switching PSU (looks decent brick), and that thing sounds much better than any PC, and think I would have to spend more than 1000$ for dedicated hifi streamer to get maybe a little bit better sound.
So people, try it yourself before blindly believing what someone says on YT.
Thanks, very helpful
The best sound I've ever heard came from the PC! Lossless files and the PC connected via USB to a high quality external DAC! Superb! 👍
Trying feeding the DAC with optical out from PC in WASAPI/ASIO mode in foobar2k and thank me later ✌
I've been using, for many years, a California Audio Labs amp with a switching power supply. Very quiet amp and a brute in terms of power. Absolutely a steal on the used market. Keeping it alive is another matter...
I’ve seen alot of the videos but this one was one the best of allready good videos
I just bought my first dedicated stream instead plug in directly into my computer. The improvement in sound quality is so huge. I've been thinking, upgrading a $1000 DAC to $2000 one might not be as cost-effective as adding a $1000 streamer.
The price of Pie has gone up a bit.
does the efficiency rating of a switching power supply affect how good its performance is, now that we have bronze, gold, platinum and titanium certifications? or are the not applicable in this particular use case?
All the audio companies are scared of rasberry pi. It rivals anything even close in price when done right. My set up: linear 5v psu for the pi (version 3b). Separate linear 3v supply for the Ian Canada hat isolator/reclocker board. Upgraded clocks on the reclocker. Then via i2s (avoid inbuilt pi spdif output) to Nos Dac that is also separately fed with 12v linear dc. You can build such a setup all in one box for under well under 2k (up to you how much to spend on psus :)). Your system will beat Paul's hands down for a fraction of the price... Get yourself educated and don't only listen to people who have a business bias...
I bought a couple of line-level booster amps a couple years ago. Although I'm happy with those amps, they came with wall-wart switching power supplies, and those supplies interfered with the AM radio reception on my Yamaha receiver. Both the receiver and my computer are on a desk, and there were already several other wall-wart or "brick" power supplies nearby (of whatever types) for other things, and none of the other supplies had caused a problem. The company was nice enough to exchange their supplies for linear ones.
Is your line booster a TEC 780LC? I bought a Crosley Solo radio 2 years ago and I blamed the AM hum on the set and it's 1 amp linear wall wart plug, a gel battery mitigated the hum, and the other problem, a cheap laptop charger wiped out the upper AM stations
I’m a linear ac adaptor breaker and switchmode entrepeneur. I’m glad that iron cores is still going steady.
Roon on IBM compatible?
If you do DIY audio, like I do, linear PSU's are much easier to build and service. No hf noise just lf noise.
you are so pleasant to listen,and btw I'm so jelous of your garden
Are you using a wireless microphone?
I have been using raspberry pi based network players and yes, with switch mode PSUs they sound bad if not awful. therefore I have designed my own linear 5v audio grade PSUs for them and now they sound fantastic
I suspect there is some confusion about the wide-band often audible digital noise that a PC motherboard can induce into a USB powered DAC and what the PC switch mode power supply itself does. What matters is that your DAC is powered through a low noise power supply separate from your computer (don't use the USB cable from your PC to power your DAC) and that you keep your gear grounded avoiding common mode current noise through the USB cable or other interconnect cables. Besides, modern switch mode power supplies are usually with low ripple noise and at a frequency that is outside what you can hear. If you have an oscilloscope, you can obviously measure how bad it is and also add filter components (inductors and capacitors) to reduce it. And if I had to choose between switch mode power supply ripple noise or linear power supply ripple noise at similar level, typically I would prefer the switch mode power supply noise, as it wouldn't be audible.
That commoning of the earth's using USB is one of the great limitations of a lot of DAC's
I used to rely on a Toslink optical cable to give me the isolation, trouble is my current/new PC does not have Toslink
@@paulstubbs7678 Yes with an optical connection, you definitely can avoid such interference problem. But with optical connection your DAC is no longer in full control of the PCM clock. The DAC will then just need to ensure it doesn't introduce clock jitter. It's quite disappointing that Apple has dropped their excellent 3.5mm jack integrated optical out in newer Macs.
Hey Paul. I use an smps with my homebuilt class A amplifier. I get some incredible results with it. I think over rating it by a long shot helps heaps, and the thing runs at about 70kHz anyway, so filtering that seemed pretty straightforward with various small caps on veroboards.
He said Umbuntu not Windows :) BTW I send my music via Ethernet and de-galvanize by converting to optical and back just before the steamer. Works fine. I use a linear power supply for my streamer and the last ethernet switch (converter).
isnt there a power supply to convert from optical back to ethernet? How is that de-galvanized? If that is de-galvanized then you shouldn't need to do optical in the 1st place.
A lot of the cheap-and-nasty switched-mode power supplies use feedback across the isolation gap. If you're going down the switched-mode road, I think it's good to also look at the quoted "ground leakage current". 10-20 micro-amps, not too bad. 100-200 micro-amps plus, not so good!
I upgraded to a better switch mode power supply (seasonics) for my computer, it made a difference, I also have some USB outlets with power filtering, they make a difference, and a good power cord also made a difference.
I do like to use linear power supply to my small audio projects, so much cleaner if a linear voltage regulator is also added to the circuit (note: small project, 1W-5W output power, efficiency is not required). The switching ones are so efficient and a lot smaller, I try to use them with Li-Ion battery powered small projects to recharge the batteries.
I use rasberry pi with allo digione signature hat and allo shanti as linear supply combined with qutest dac and sbooster mkii for qutest. Magnificent results
the filtering after the switching can be designed well enough to remove and noise on the power and the dc smoothing can be of enough capacitance to eliminate ripple but the DACs and the signal path and device grounding will make a much greater and more likely point of issue in regards to noise and distortion.
Digital/Analog converter chips.
Besides the cost, size and weight of a linear regulated power supply for a modern x86 computer, it is futile because there is a giant switch mode power supply on the motherboard next to the CPU to produce the very low (around 1.2-1.5V) voltage, high current (100++ Amps) it needs to operate. It is not uncommon to see 16 sets of powerFETS and accompanying inductors and capacitors.
The newest style PC ATX12V motherboards operate from a single 12V power supply thus the motherboard has even more switch mode power supplies to produce other voltages such as the 5V and 3.3V.
Better off not worrying about the PC, just use an external DAC/streamer so all the noise stays in the PC. I liked Toslink for a while, as it optically isolates the PC. (current PC does not have it - darn)
Be wary as some DAC's do a really poor job of isolating the USB etc. (or removing PC generated timing jitter) because you end up with the two devices tied together via their earth's.
I use USB isolators for safety reasons between PCs and test equipment or DUTs (Device Under Test). They're a simple dongle that fits between the PC and target device and provides about 1kV isolation.
Bravo..Hope John Darko sees this.. ;-)
WHAT Raspberry Pi is Paul or Darren talking about, who built it, and what software was used? My DIY Raspberry Pi streamers sound fantastic! Bryston seems to think highly of Raspberry Pi too. Bryston has 3 products that use the Raspberry Pi internally: The Bryston BDP-Pi streamer, BDA-3.14 Streamer/DAC, and the BR-20 Preamp/Streamer/DAC. My Sonore microRendu streamer doesn't sound any better than my cheapie DIY Raspberry Pi. BTW the "open source" end-point software that Paul speaks of for use with Roon is not actually "open source". It's called Roon Bridge and Roon makes it available FREE of charge for those who use Roon. I run Roon Bridge on my DIY Raspberry Pi streamers.
and here I am in Berger King parking lot .....
I’m going to send you some of my “world famous garlic” to plant this Fall!
To sidestep the problem entirely, use a quality digital transport (USB to SPDIF over Coax) with a separate battery, such as the Audiophilleo with PurePower - magic!
Ubuntu (0:44) is not Windows (2:55).
Jup he messed stuff up.
I've just "finished" making three beautiful looking regulated PSU's - great caps, nice hook up wire, shiny solder - the works. Even experimented with different transformers and settled on a combination of R-core and toroidal. I assessed, adjusted, assessed, combined lower capacity caps in stead of one larger for just the "right" tone, at each stage ect. BUT, have to say, as linear as it is, as detailed, deep and rich, there's something missing. I honestly think switch mode PSU's are more dynamic and exicting. Well well, was fun. I wont make a switch mode PSU, i think ill die. p.s not bragging - trust me these parts took ages to save up for!
@@jim9930 yup, they have such character
czcams.com/video/GaXQ4RFO5N4/video.html
I just replaced my rectifier with a mosfet rect. This helps with that annoying sound.
It will end up feeding a switching power supply either way - inside the motherboard 😛. Intel CPUs are practically impossible to be feed from a linear directly because they request the voltage they want according to their load.
Earlier Raspi's used linear power supplies, later ones were switching. The DAC in the PI is kind of rubbish. By the time you have gotten up to a full small form factor PC the CPU has multiple switching supplies just to provide it's various voltage rails (+3.3V, 2V, 1.3V....) the point is that even if you change the power supply you are unlikely to fully escape switching noise. The good news is that while you can't fix the mother board noise you a better quality power supply will have lower common mode noise and a good amplifier will have a differential input that will reject most (if not nearly all) of the remaining common mode noise.
Agree that SMPS is more noisy & Bluetooth audio has a better sound.
I wish I could grown tomatoes 🍅... every time I grown them the goddam fruit flies come along and wreak havoc with them
Doh! Sorry. Though our crop this year is sparse, we didn't have any problems with squirrels or flies. What we got were really good.
On behalf of a friend:
m.czcams.com/video/BHBbJAIcnBI/video.html 😀
Rasberry PIs are NOT $12 to $20 dollars devices.
They are more like $35 to $60 dollars.
You could find one that cheap but will be a very old design/CPU with low memory.
I Believe the Pi Zero is popular for this particular audio application. They're still quite cheap, though by the time you get a power supply, case, cables, etc., you're in for more than $20. They're fun and still relatively inexpensive to mess around with.
Some noise good to have for little warm sound bass . If we over done with power cables , power supplies and power conditioner.. that’s it it’s going to sound dry or analytical or we get something is missing feeling ..
Here here
"Don Payne
2 weeks ago
I've just "finished" making three beautiful looking regulated PSU's - great caps, nice hook up wire, shiny solder - the works. Even experimented with different transformers and settled on a combination of R-core and toroidal. I assessed, adjusted, assessed, combined lower capacity caps in stead of one larger for just the "right" tone, at each stage ect. BUT, have to say, as linear as it is, as detailed, deep and rich, there's something missing. I honestly think switch mode PSU's are more dynamic and excicting. Well well, was fun. I wont make a switch mode PSU, i think ill die. p.s not bragging - trust me these parts took ages to save up for!"
I'm learning that computer audio with all its associated noise needs to be a purposed built machine. If it's not, all these endless upgrades and fixes to its many parts are just band aids. You may get lucky with a combination that sounds ok, but their are just too many pieces that are not needed for streaming. It does sorta puzzle me in a way why a raspberry pie with its low power requirements doesn't sound good. Another case of taking a off the shelf pc that is no way optimized for audio. Convenient yes. Hopefully better and cheaper more optimized solutions will come in the furure.
Why doesn't the wind blow in Colorado?
It does trust me. They can get hurricane force winds in Boulder.
@@scottyo64
But in the video there is no breeze at all. I can see one plant behind him, that is moving a little around 1:24 for a while but everything else is dead still.
It's rather variable, I've seen 70+ in Boulder.
Boulder gets windy, but not so much in midsummer.
Besides, Paul probably has noise harvesters set on the fences around his property to absorb the unwanted energy. Based on his description of that product, it should be very effective.
He just sat there, enjoying the sun until the winds died down -not a bad way to go...
The Raspberry Pi itself is noisy but there are things you can do to make them sound good. First off, the standard switching wall wart that Raspberry sells is very noisy and is worse than Bluetooth. The iFi power supply was designed for audio use and is a good value at $50. Second, not all HATs are created equal. Allo has the best reputation and they make two SPDIF HATs, the Digi One
And the Digi One Plus. The difference is in the level of isolation offered, the Plus has complete galvanic isolation and used a second power supply for the SPDIF.
I have the Digi One with the iFi supply and recommend listening to this before condemning all Pi based streamers.
My mother's 1988 tomatoes were sweet as candy.
Ours are awfully good this year but there aren't many. Kind of a thin crop yield.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio
Hey Paul, are you growing 'heirloom' tomatoes?
If not, you should give 'em a try. The flavor is unbelieveable!
Like the tomatoes my mom used to grow when I was a kid.
Not only that, but they have an arguably better nutritional profile, as there are more varieties available. 😊
Edit: Also, remember that tomatoes require a lot of water.
Paul, I don't know why your experience with the Raspberry Pi was so horrible. I also have Roon Labs and I have several Raspberry Pi's that are running Ropiee. Currently I'm using just the USB output to a DAC. But I've also used various HATs (IQAudio, HIfIBerry, etc). They sound fantastic! Specially when using the USB output. I do use the heavily filtered iFi 5v power supply. But, I don't think they make that much of an improvement.
Let's have a little MUSIC, played on a Hi-Fi with a LINEAR POWER SUPPLY!
🎶 You say to-may-to, and I say to-mar-to 🎶 You say po-tay-to, and I say po-tar-to 🎶 To-may-to, to-mar-to, po-tay-to, po-tar-to 🎶 Let's turn the Hi-Fi off! 🎶 😂😂😂
Play with it! I do all the time when the wife ain't home.
I'm waiting to see the swimming pool 🏊♀️
Only use Pi for background music. Build a 3 Zoone amp with them. So, 6x30w Class-D. And it doing it's job as it should. But I use Logitech Media Server.
"Can you hear switching frequencies? No more questions my honor"
Jk btw
I use a Pi 3b with an audio hat with a SPDIF hat as Paul described. I run Moode Audio and stream to it with Qobuz.. Some people prefer Volumio for the software. I think it sounds excellent, certainly better than Bluetooth. I'd like to hear an engineer explain why digital sources sending bit perfect signals sound different (do they?) I suppose it could be jitter, but I don't hear it. Outside of the Chromecast Audio, other streamers get far more expensive very quickly.
I'm using a Pi1B+ with an Allo DigiOne Signature S/PDIF HAT supplied with batteries (even better then linear PS !), its S/PDIF output being connect to a high-end external "R2R" DAC. This less than 300€ "S/PDIF package" sounds better then a 2500€ expensive (appreciated) LINN streamer (either using its analog outputs or when S/PDIF connected to the same external DAC) ... If your Pi 3b is not already supplied by a good linear PS I would encourage you to do so. I use the first Pi1 because no Wifi nor BT and its lower CPU frequency guaranties less potential negative influence (jitter ...) on the sound. Only drawback is the longer starting / shutdown times but in general I let it 24/24 powered. And no thermal issues as with Pi3 or worse Pi4 !!! I'm really very happy with it. Sound is excellent and it is very reliable. But with all my respect to Paul and PS Audio I can understand that HiFi manufacturers are generally not that much appreciating the Raspberry Pi competitor audio capacities ...
Moode Audio on Pi 3b+ is pure gold ! Use it with Schiit USB filter and Schiit DAC (Yggdrasile).
@@stephanespohr886 Running a pi 3 (+?) with HiFi Berry DAC, something is missing - not sure what.
@@paulstubbs7678 Hi Paul :-), if you can invest in an "DigiOne" S/PDIF HAT from manufacturer Allo (< 100 USD, www.allo.com/sparky/digione.html) or better in the same "DigiOne Signature" as me with two separate power supplies (239 USD, www.allo.com/sparky/digione-signature.html) and supply its Audio part with small 18650 batteries (those used for electronic cigarettes) you should improve the SQ significantly, especially if your external DAC is good (and your whole system resolving enough).
But I also experiented the first mentioned simple DigiOne card and found it better than HiFi Berry's ones (that for sure are cheaper, but IMO the price difference is largely justified).
Btw for the control I use Moodeaudio as mentioned by @Virdevir (and also happy with it) but IMHO the software plays a second role in the sound differences vs the applied S/PDIF HAT Card. Then, as I'm a perfectionist I also use a battery supply for the 5Vdc RPi + HAT supply (12V dry battery + 5Vdc linear converter) and found an improvement even vs linear PS. But then you must also buy a 12V batterie charger (e.g. those intended for motorcycles) - of course to power off during listening. Good luck, Stéphane
Pure Rubbish ! - The Bias of this is spectacular! There is so much wrong with this video. Use it to fertilize your tomatoes. --
Paul you placed the Camera too far away in this video, And u have done this before please don't place it so far away...
It's easy to see thru his anti-Raspberry Pi propaganda. It's very clear to me he doesn't even know what it is.
The raspberry pi streamers are about 200 max with housings all in and have truly engineering sound power cleaning. The problem is these compete with the big guys thousands of dollar products which are mostly totally snake Oil.
@@petew2560 I wouldn't say they are snake oil. Your paying for a pretty chassis, a nice screen and a marketing department.
Switch mode power supplies much better specially for Valve amplifiers. it's got to run at 120 kilohertz or higher medical grade power suppliers are generally better. and if it's in a computer you need to isolate it away from the computer have it out on the pc in a separate metal box and a ferrite bead one turn on the positives 12 and 5 volt Rail any positive rail 1uF 275v safety capacitor between the positive and neutral, in some metal shielded conduit a shower hose metal conduit would be fine and Earth, on the input cable to computer to isolate any EMI interference coming up the cable.
If you're using your PC as a media device storage use a mechanical hard drive virtually silent a lot less noisy than SSD what is in its nature is noisy.
Hi sweda!
Good to see you again, still bragging on about your SMPS? 😜
Btw, SSD stands for Solid State Drive, it means it's solid. No mechanically moving parts. No mechanical noise.
@@QoraxAudio
Thank you.
Power factor.
People really don't understand how Digital audio works... You shouldn't be worried about noise in digital audio! It's digital, a digital signal either works or it doesn't, there's no such thing as a noisy digital signal! (Yes, I know that's not entirely accurate but it's the end result) The only thing you need to worry is at the analogue stage of the connection. And that's suuuch an easy fix! Just don't use the integrated DAC in your Computer! Buy a separate one, with a separate power supply and that's it! Run a toslink fiber cable to it and you're COMPLETELY decoupled from the noise in your PC. A data USB cable wouldn't be bad either.
Is this perspective or is Paul's vegetarian diet causing him to shrink. However, beer is vegan. "German beer is chemical free." -- Mark Knopfler (2002) "Why Eye Man"
I’m sure a lot of keyboard warriors hearts were shattered with the raspberry pi Bluetooth comment 😂😂😂, fully agree.
I know you're old Paul but please stop favor Apple products. They're not that great anymore...
So... don't use computers for music. Mac Minis are no better than any others. Definitely don't spend good money on a quality power supply for a computer. The computer will defeat whatever improvements the power supply achieves. Don't use standard Raspberry Pis. They're no good. However, some companies have upgraded and improved the Raspberry Pi's circuitry and construction and those can be gorgeous. Also, basically, never use switch mode supplies. Theoretically there are some good ones out there, but odds are you'll never see one. Linear power supplies are expensive. So are streamers. You're better off using a CD player than a bad streaming arrangement. Here's a very good Raspberry Pi based streamer:
www.musicdirect.com/network-player/Pro-Ject-Stream-Box-S2-Ultra
Here's a very good linear power supply:
upscaleaudio.com/products/sbooster-botw-p-p-mkii-power-supply
I appreciate that this stuff isn't cheap. I made these a long term goal some time ago and I'm very happy with them now. Forgive my oversimplifications in this post. PS: we have all lived with switch mode power supplies, god knows, including me. Replace them if and when you can.
absolut no point of chnging psu of a PC... PC itself is sooo noisy. Therefore you have music dedicated computers - streamers or network transports.
...And What have we learned about linear vs. switching power supplies?
That he's a veggie.
Garden is a big deal to them.
Bought a power supply...
Talking HIGH END here.
Hadn't had a beer yet.
Found a rock.
SPDIF
Doodle berry pie.
Not "a Windows guy"
Ok bye bye
😶
@@Finn-McCool
Oh *do* shut up, you moaning minnie.