WHO'S THE BEST STORM COMMANDER IN cEDH? YIDRIS VS ORVAR VS KYKAR VS KRARK/SAKASHIMA - PLAY TO WIN
Vložit
- čas přidán 20. 03. 2021
- This week on Play to Win we have Ken and Briell on to find out who the best storm commander in cEDH is.
WE HAVE
CAM ON ORVAR TWIDDLE STORM - www.moxfield.com/decks/Y2cdFY...
DYLAN ON YIDRIS STORM - www.moxfield.com/decks/CCSXGd...
BRIELL ON KYKAR UNDERWORLD STORM - www.moxfield.com/decks/Ogv9GY...
KEN ON SISKEL AND EBERT - www.moxfield.com/decks/G-RUVy...
STACKED EDH - / @stackededh
PERFECTLY SPLENDID - www.etsy.com/shop/perfectlysp...
ALTERSLEEVES - www.altersleeves.com/playtowin
-Don't forget to use code 'playtowinstorm' at check out for 5% off your order!
-CUSTOM ALTERSLEEVE, become a $10 or $20 Patron and it will be shipped at the end of the month - patreon.com/playtowin?...
Check out more of John's Alters - www.altersleeves.com/alterist...
Inclusion Inc. | Diversity at Work - podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
MERCH - www.bonfire.com/store/play-to...
PLAYMATS/TOKENS - www.playtowinmtg.com/merch
TCG PLAYER AFFILIATE LINK - shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/prod...
DONATE HERE- anti-asianviolenceresources.c...
-Then forward us the receipt to playtowinmtg@gmail.com
-Include your mailing address, and we'll send you a pack of four of our custom treasure tokens.
PODCAST Spotify! - open.spotify.com/show/0jkKhZ9...
PODCAST iTunes! - podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
LINK TREE - linktr.ee/playtowinmtg - Hry
Orvar's ability doesn't target so can't be changed by swat. It's also chosen on resolution, and the choice is made from the original targets.
Absolutely true, however swatting Ghostly Flicker *does* change what Orvar can choose. So the correct play is to swat Ghostly Flicker to bad targets (i.e. Orvar + Yidris). That alone will nullify orvar and flicker.
Quote from ruling: "As the first triggered ability tries to resolve, the spell that caused it to trigger and that spell’s targets are checked again."
@@Racnive Wouldn't this part of the same ruling allow the original target of the spell to still be copied or no? "If at least one permanent you control that’s a target is still on the battlefield, the triggered ability will resolve, even if that permanent is now an illegal target for the spell." Or does Orvar only check what's targeted currently and have no memory of the first targeting?
Also, wouldn't changing the targets of a spell to another permanent that triggers Orvar make him trigger a second time? Not an important part of this ruling but it's something I need to figure out.
@@jemm113 This ruling states that it rechecks targets on resolution to determine what you can choose to copy. Rechecking conditions is typical for intervening "if" clauses. It doesn't care whether the targets are legal for the spell, *just for the ability.* It's possible I'm reading it wrong and the ruling actually means that it's rechecking the *original* targets for validity. So, e.g. if an original target has left the battlefield it would no longer be copiable. Whereas if the original spell has left the stack, Orvar doesn't care, you still get to copy a target.
However, it waffles between using present tense and past tense when referring to the targets of the spell: "the spell that caused it to trigger and that spell’s targets", "If all of the permanents you controlled that *were* targets", and "If at least one permanent you control that’s a target is still on the battlefield". I interpreted this to mean that it rechecks what the spell is targeting, but upon rereading it I see how I could be wrong. I think as it stands it's unclear, and I can't think of another card that sets precedent.
On the other hand, changing the targets of a spell definitely wouldn't trigger Orvar again, since the trigger only occurs *on cast.*
@@Racnive yes the targets are rechecked but ovar can’t target himself only other permanents and he didn’t have to deflecting swat the ovar triggered ability after changing targets of the original spell the ability is essentially countered by that. If the spell was countered normally ovar checks the targets of the spell at the time that it leaves the stack. And ovar trigger still resolves normally
Storm count was at least more than 5 :)
lol
I'm Briell's only sub lol. Great game!
@@superskaldy I appreciate you
Storm count is yes
19:06
There's a mistake. Kykar doesn't trigger the cascade of Yidris because it's not cast from the hand.
Also 20:24
Nothing that's cast from the grave by Breach triggers Yidris. That's sad.
same thing for the cards the are exiled from jeskia will at 15:00
Lots of fun, y'all. If you ever feel like watching me cast rituals ≥8 times to no real end or benefit again, just hmu! (lol)
I really liked your deck, it seems really fun because it really leans into the chaos of the flips in a great way.
I love Storm, and the only reason i don't do a krark deck is because my heart can't take the fear of lose the coin flip and stop the chain, its to much for me
@@CheeseWedge056 it amazing deck, i build similar deck and its just so fookin fun play! And most of the time, it isnt even that randomized by the flip, bcs u have 2-4 krarks and for example the thumb, and u just roll
Honestly would of loved to see that clever impersonator copy sakashima. Having 3+ krark's is basically infinitie mana with a ritual. That deck is super fun to pilot. Great content.
Question about spell copies (specifically mogg salvage)
doesnt the spell have to target before a copy is created? My understanding was that all copies had to have the same target unless it was worded differently
So Yidris only triggers from hand 🤔What else did we miss?
oh ya don't wanna know X)
Thats a pretty huge mistake tbh
Technically deflecting swat changing the target for orvar. The controller will choose that there is no target for swat.
Kark doesn't change the original target of the original spell. Target is on cast. The copies you can change the target.
Kudos to you Dylan and Cameron. For all the fun you give us through these episodes and for standing up each time.
This is the only channel I don’t skip the sponsors cuz man, you guys are the best
Appreciate that
I think we need to discuss how this format is becoming "play/steal/copy/reanimate Dockside Exortionist as many times as possible"
Hi, I'm posting from 3 years in the future, the format is still that.
21:52 Storm count is at 23 (24 if you count Brain Freeze)..... It would be less... If you know... Yidris triggers were done correctly...
Funny enough the storm count would've been at 19 (or much much lower due to some of the lines not working) if you don't count the misplayed Yidris triggers
1) Mogg Salvage 17:30 (In between the cast abilities that aren't Krark: crack land to search + Mana Crypt)
2) Mogg Salvage 18:02
3) Mogg Salvage 18:09
4) Mogg Salvage 18:16
5) Mogg Salvage 18:29
6) Mogg Salvage 18:35
7) Kykar, Wind's Fury 19:02
8) Azorius Signet (off of the first misplayed Yidris trigger (of the turn)) 19:05
9) Mogg Salvage 19:08 (I don't think the Fellwar Stone should've been popped here as that is the original Mogg Salvage was targeting the Azorius Signet)
10) Idyllic Tutor 19:51
11) Dranith Magistrate (off of the first legal Yidris trigger (of the turn)) 19:53
12) Underworld Breach 20:03
13) Mox Opal (off of the second legal Yidris trigger) 20:06
14) Mana Crypt (shuffling library from the second misplayed Yidris trigger) 20:20
15) Enlightened Tutor (shuffling card to bottom of library from third legal Yidris trigger) 20:24
16) Jeska's Will 20:40
17) Skullclamp (off of the third misplayed Yidris trigger) 20:50
18) Sensei's Divining Top 20:55
19) Lotus Petal (off of the fourth misplayed Yidris trigger) 21:01
20) Sol Ring 21:16
21) Chrome Mox (off of the fourth legal Yidris trigger) 21:22
22) Merchant Scroll 21:32
23) Mystical Tutor (off of the fifth legal Yidris trigger) 21:36
i majorly respect this due dilligence
how were the Yidrid triggers misplayed? there was a lot going on and I couldn't pick up on a lot of it lol
@@ghostware6057 Ydris specifically says "as you cast spells from your HAND this turn, they gain cascade" and not "spells not cast by this effect have cascade". Kykar was cast from the command zone (not from the hand), so it shouldn't have a cascade trigger from Ydris (as with all the cards cast from the graveyard via underworld breach).
I could've used the term illegal, but I'll give the players the benefit of the doubt that they just didn't know or were lost in the moment as there was a lot going on.
@@wongwei7830 ahh yeah I didn't catch that. makes sense. thanks for the explanation
So what did I learn from this episode? I learned that storm decks have too many moving pieces for my feeble mind to keep track of. That, and I still love Orvar as a commander. This was an especially fun, if not completely mind boggling, episode.
When mogg salvage finally resolved it shouldn't have been able to change targets as it wasn't the copy and it's original target was destroyed by a copy so it should have just fizzled.
Thanks for typing this haha was like ummmm no
absolutely! my bad on that one
The optimal play would be to have the copy target something different than the original. If the original gets sent back to hand it can always be recast. In this case where the spell is free, the only risk is a counter spell.
The energy you give in your videos is amazing. You are so passionate and it’s great to see it.
Double krark and free spells is WILD. What a ride!
At 5:25 there was a phantasmal image that should have counted 1 more treasure due to the treachery on cam´s side
small error
That stitch and toothless playmat is adorable!!!! Great video, lots of interesting turns and good interaction.
That was brain-crunching insanity. I need an Advil after that, awesome episode!
love the vids, congrats ok 20k btw!
I am so excited for the sol ring alter sleeves, and those x amount of rituals is why I love krark. That deck can just pop off out of nowhere and it's beautiful
❤️👍👍
That was a crazy game. Krark always seems like it could win out of no where. Had no idea who would win the whole game
Another awesome video by the best EDH personality out there! Makes my day when a new videos posted. Keep it up :D !!!
As someone who can't help but love Storm, this episode was fantastic!
After seeing that Siskel & Ebert list I had to try and build it as well. So crazy.
one of us, one of us
gooble gobble, gooble gobble
The playing with power showing of the deck is what got me into cEDH :D
@@nazgir5343 ❤️
Loved the video! Orvar can be pretty crazy, and is also a bit of a pet card, so a little sad it didn't shine much, but Kykar did a great job going off!
Yay something to watch before work
Kark player missed one more for his treasure off , the treachery Cameron
YES. thank you!
Awesome game, keep up the great videos! 🍻
HEY! Thats a nice looking playmat for that Kykar player, I run the same one! Nice gameplay as always too, really enjoy seeing Orvar gameplay!
I love Elsha for storm too, the ability to play the top card of the deck, keeps the storm count going and there's prowess if you choose violence, also many alternative combos. I think Elsha is just insane at all.
Storm is my favorite archetype, thanks guys!
That was the funniest episode I've seen from you guys so far. Thanks to you and to Krark.
my beautiful meatball children thank you for the kind words
You could have moved Yidris to your command zone while it got flickered (instead of exile).
Love the game! When are we getting a new play to win pod episode? Any way you guys could talk about what you see at Marchesa and what shifts in the meta you see happening? Similar to the State of the Metagame report? Either way love the content keep it up guys!
Man I really want that Krark decklist now XD I have an Aegar giant storm deck but this looks way more entertaining
Briell and Ken were awesome guests!
Not gonna lie, seeing the deck play krark has inspired me to build that lol 😆it looks amazing 🙌
that swat stack makes my brain hurt. I guess my brain is too smooth for storm LOL
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he could target the felwar with the final copy of the mogg salvage. Don't you have to name targets on cast before the krark triggers attempt to copy?
Brielle's "OKAY" after Dylan points out the Cascade trigger on Brainfreeze is so funny. I haven't laughed that hard in a while.
Please can you make a video of which comandate is the best of tokes?
Greetings from Mexico
Can desperate ritual splice onto the copy if it gets bounced to hand?
Nice poppy field sleeves. They're probably the best art on dragon shields
Yay more Play to Win!
Wuda been funny if selvala brostorm made an appearance as a complete wild card addition
kinda shocked Jhoira, WC or Elsha isn't featured in this. I really love seeing these different decks though. Great Vid.
Then we got kess looking at all these decks funny. Sure the most optimal kess build isn't storm but is imo a stronger commander than all that got played and all that you mentioned
This was excellent, but when will we get the 4x tatiova pod
Briel's playmat is amazing. I used to have it as a shirt a while ago. I'm jealous
At 16:55 shouln't he has 2 othet Red mana for the original rite? He would be able to cast another time the ritual
I wonder if people will get starts in person like they do on spell table?
Fun watching lightning fast games! Can someone explain why they don't have a kozilek or ulamog in their decks to counter these infinite mill combos? Would unlucky eldrazi draw once in a while really lose you that many games?
Well, here's a late response, but the idea is that hitting a dead draw rather than either a piece of interaction or something proactive is pretty bad, however it's a totally different story if you're running a graveyard engine such as Gitrog.
This was an amazing game to watch
love the stich and toothless mat Briel
that deflecting swat play was insane
I'd love to know the name of the intro music with the cool guitar :)
I need to find out where to get Briell’s playmat
I know this video is from a lil while ago... but if someone can help me:
As Yidris was sent into exile by ghostly flicker, shouldn't its owner be able to decide between exiled or commander zone?
I know this from Roon, but the wording is kind of different, that's why I'm unsure.
Why do I love CEDH? ..... Because the game can change on a dime. This video is a great example of this
does orvar even target with his ability? it says that you make a copy of one of the targets, it never says that you make a copy of target permanent that got targeted. i think you cannot use deflecting swat on that ability. i think its like something like mission briefing where you simply chose a thing on resolution without ever targeting.
DIDNT EVEN SEE THE VIDEO, yet writing a comment how happy I am to see my deck Krark+Sakashima!! Yeey
if you're a Patreon patron of Play to Win, you might just see another Krark & Sakashima showing soon… ;)
Video was great as always. Just a little feedback. Don't know if it's me but the music seemed to be too loud.
I came to root for Ken but I see he hasn't stopped keeping no landers >:(! Love you Ken xoxox
Great video! Made my storm heart flutter
#nevernotalittlebitpunishedgang
Dylan your shirt looks really cool, where did you buy it? :)
"Before Krark there was no non deterministic storm deck"
Me: ....
Me: There's a fucking Yidris right there, hello?
Changing the target of the ghostly flicker only changes what gets flickered, not what the orvar trigger creates as a token...
My favorite storm deck is my Birgi deck. Idk how super cedh it is but jeez and crêpes i love spinning the wheels on that deck
when there is a card that reacts to permanents being targeted you still get the triggers even though targets of a spell have been changed. Learned that from Fbltph might work with Orvar too. What do you think?
Fblthp's is worded "When Fblthp *becomes* the target of a spell". Orvar's is worded "Whenever you *cast* an instant or sorcery spell, if it targets". It's not the same trigger.
So correct me if Im wrong, but Orvar does not actually target as a trigger, you choose one of the things the spell targeted on resolution, so deflecting swat cannot change its "targets" because it doesn't actually target.
Interestingly though, but changing what the targets of ghostly flicker you do change what Orvar is able to copy, and thus targeting the two that you targeted would have the same general effect as what happened. Additionally if that new target isn't a permanent they control, the trigger's condition fails and they don't get any token.
In the game it happened it didn't effect anything, but important to note for future reference.
Double checked this with Ask-A-judge and what I said was confirmed to be accurate
What coin flipper app is he using?
Kark plus Irenicus' vile duplication is fun.
As long as you are the one doing it.
I know I'm late to the party on this, bit wouldn't Orvar be making token copies of those lands as well??
this inspired me to make a Krark and Sak deck. it looked too fun not to try it
I want nothing more in life to see a krark/sakashima deck go off with krarks thumb.
I have done it many times and every time it feels ridiculous and amazing.
Could Orvar create infinite copies with ghostly flicker triggers? And just win?
You were right! the storm count was 24 at the time of you asking what it was. Nice eye!
Edit: atleast from my counting.
Oooooh yeah. *smacks inner arm* gimme that sweet sweet signed playmat, baby.. :D
Pyretic Ritual shouldn't give 6 mana when u win the coin? or I'm wrong?? :C can somebody helps me?? 12:55
Song at 7:35?
I love my Kykar. If ONLY I could do this consistently lmao
How’s elsha rank on storm?
Cameron and Treachery, a love story
What’s that tattoo on the Krark players arm? Something is Koine Greek?
Hi! I love flipping a traditional coin, but when Krark starts going off this becomes veeery tedious..
any chance anyone knows what app is being used for flipping in the video?
Did you ever get the name of the app? Cause I'm building a coin flip deck and I kinda want a simpler way of flipping coins
@@senorpeble I did not unfortunately!
Hey, Great Game & vid! I‘m also interrested which App it is?!
Sad that kalamax underworld storm wasn’t in here. The mix of pyretic ritual, high tide, frantic search, and brain storm is lethal with 1000year storm or Swarm Intelligence.
FYI you can block other players screens if you click on the 3 little dots over them so you don't need them to put their heads down lol
if you are using spelltable of course
When the PtW boys were introducing the game my first thought was "gods, they dress like old men"... then I thought "wait I have that exact cardigan"!
When a commander is flickered ( Yidris getting flickered by ghostly flicker) can’t the owner choose to send it to the command zone?
Putting the commander in the command zone is now a state-based action upon entering graveyard/exile, which means it happens after the full resolution of the spell. (This was changed somewhat recently to allow commanders to trigger on death/leaves battlefield effects.)
Even if it could be replaced, flicker wouldn't lose track of the card, since it simply specifies "those cards", and explicitly returns them "under your control."
I think someone made a custom Krark app to handle multiple flips and calculate other useful things
dockside checks for enchantments too, the phantasmal image dockside would've made 6 not 5 treasures
Loved the gameplay. Would have been nice to see my girl Jhoira though.
I have that toothless/stitch playmat yo!
based on the rules for casting spells, you could of went to put mana drain on the stack, and then sack LED for the mana to keep yidris.
LED's Oracle text has the wording of "Activate only as an instant" specifically to prevent this. You can't use LED's ability during the casting of a spell, only before it.
Scariest things in the world:
3. The dark
2. Death
1. Dylan and Cameron saying *BEGIN*
How does he keep yeris
@10:00 atler sleeves? I love atlers. :P
More Orvar gameplay please
The first time jeskas will is cast she would have been able to exile the top 3 of her library also because she controlled yidris and he is a commander
Next you guys should try "WHO IS THE BEST BIRTHING POD DECK?"
Blood pod vs. blue pod vs. marath stax vs. I donk know
Orvar's ability does not target so you can't deflecting swat it.
Ken's flips are just gripping.
At 19:04 kikar wouldn't trigger cascade because it was not cast from hand.
idk if it matters but ken should have gotten an extra treasure from dockside i’m assuming that it was missed because treachery is an an enchantment but idk
I don't believe casting Kykar gains a Yidris trigger, right? Yidris says 'as you cast spells *from your hand* this turn, they gain cascade'.