It makes sense to me -- cyclocross was originally a way of keeping road racers in riding shape in the off-season. The bikes were supposed to have the same geometry (at least the contact points) so that there would be no transition when the road season started back up. Thus, they'd have many of the same pluses and minuses as under-biking with a road race machine.
They are really identical gravel geometry bikes. The Santa cruze actually has a lower bottom bracket and longer mechanical trail--making it actually more of a gravel bike. The reach is actually 13mm less in the same size santa cruze. I think they are 2 different size bikes you were comparing. The Stigmata does not offer an extra small size. Their woman's version, the Juiliana Quinjcy does indeed offer the same size as the Liv--xs and s sizes.
I think the best solution is owning a xs stigmata frame and getting a fit and the parts (stem handlebar cranks and tires) to make it comfortable for you. It's expensive to do that at this point since you have the 2 bikes already ☹️ I think that would produce the one bike to rule them all situation for you with the best of both worlds agility stability and comfort. Down to road maybe🙂👍🤙
Since I ride more gravel routes with long gravel descents, the Stig wouldn’t provide the necessary compliance necessary to ride on those bumpy and loose conditions. The Stig makes a lot of sense for cross season but I don’t think I’ll be racing this year.
Nice indeed, the bikes are sweeet as well. I picked up a Surly Midnight Special 2 years and 4000 miles ago. It took a sec to build the muscle up. Though carbon rattle traps are now on the menu. Have a blast lookin fine on your bike.
:D spent the day testing the gravel routes of the local back coutry, only to have this pop up on CZcams afterwards :D You pretty much sum up what I reacted to deciding between a gravel bike and a CX a couple of years ago, settling for a soft gravel bike with a large BB drop. How did your two compare in BB drop? Does it even make a difference to you as a CX rider?
Great video! I work in a bike shop and honestly most people looking for gravel don’t even know what a CX is…and most of them will never been on terrain that deserves the full gravel bike. I have been testing tire brands / widths and pressures on my channel on my Rocky Mountain Cycle Cross Race (with a conversion to a 11-36 cassette and shorter stem) and even riding single track I haven’t found the need for the gravel bike…yet! I am thinking my next move will be to switch to a 650 wheel (like Cervelo Gravel Bikes run) to get some wider wheels and fatter tire as my CXR frame maxes out @38/40. Cheers!! Hi
Personally I don't understand gravel bikes, wouldn't it be a lot more stable and comfortable to have a hardtail XC MTB with low profile tires instead ?
I personally started off with a gravel bike because I was racing cyclocross, and now I just ride that because it is what I've been riding since! :) I Would love to try other bikes though!
Nope! Geometry, gearing and wheel size will always make the CX / gravel bike faster than an XC until the terrain gets too rough. No bumps…XC for the win! *Check out all the other ride tests in channels like GCN.
Benelli Park is the best. What's the weight of these 2 bikes ? Watching this video makes me want to slap some wider tires on my SCHWINN and take it off paved roads again.
I love Bonelli park! I have not weighed them yet but will be doing that in a later video so stay tuned! I just know the Santa Cruz is definitely lighter than the Liv.
What trail are you riding around min 8 with all the flowers?! It looks so beautiful! Also, love your channel! Can you do a video on tire pressure? I would be interested in hearing your opinions riding the same section with "max" psi (which a lot of people do without thinking) and slowly lowering the pressure.
Thank you so much for watching and supporting my channel! I don't know the name of it but it is in Bonelli park! I'll put the Strava route in the description box for you so you can check it out. I love the psi video idea, its a very interesting way to show how psi can really make a huge difference on how the ride feels! Thanks :)
@@lifesagem Your orange will never become an apple no matter how much you upgrade it. CX bikes have a shorter wheelbase and a higher bottom bracket than gravel bikes. This makes climbing switchbacks easier, which is necessary for CX race tracks. In high speed gravel road descents, a CX bike will feel more twitchy and less controllable because your center of gravity is higher and the shorter wheel base makes for a more direct response to steering movement. A gravel bike will have a longer wheel base and a lower center of gravity, basically like a normal road bike. The sloping top tube won't affect handling, the CX bike is designed to be shouldered quickly. You may want to try a shorter stem on the Santa Cruz to improve handling and fit.
I think the 'twitchiness' or 'nimbleness' of CX bikes (depends on your perspective) boils down mostly to the wheelbase and fork geometry (fork offset, trail and head angle). With CX bikes being shorter and with the shorter trail. I have two bikes: a CX(ish) for fun and weekend riding and a cheap simple 'urban' bike to get around the town without being worried about the wellbeing of my bike. Both have 28" wheels, their button brackets seem to be on the same height (just stacked'em against each other), but the 'urban' is more upright, has a longer wheelbase and feels "slacker". The simplest way to explain is, is that the 'urban' bike is easier to ride hands-off. I can do it at lower speeds, I can do some sharper turns with no hands. But the CX bike (with hands ON) can take really tight U-turns. If I don't fall down, of course ;-)
Asked because I have one too…. and to replicate or hit my fit I had to use a -17 stem (looked goofy and replaced it with a drop 6)…. The SC fit is a bit different - though I love it! Feel like it is a geo that favors longer leg to torso ratio…. And, sadly I don’t have long legs…. great content!
Thanks! I have heard it before, and I do want to try a mountain bike. I’ll eventually get one but for now, I’ll just keep shredding on the gravel bike :)
Wow. Absolutely no comment on the single most significant difference -- the drive train! That gravel bike with two front cranks, including the larger one that is significantly larger than the single crank on the cross bike, will always have the advantage on descents where it's safe to go fast. The one with the smaller crank won't be able to keep up. You must not have had a chance to really wind these suckers up on a descent. You would have noticed the when you ran out of gears on the cross bike at about 25 mph.
The only distinct thing about cx bikes is what uci says it should be. Don't fall for the scam of first generation mtb with drop bars rebranded as a new thing. There's more difference between trail bikes of different brands than the two bikes you have. It's a total marketing gimmick.
There is a difference. I have both and I can easily say that the gravel bike is the comfort bike of drop-bars. The geometry and tire clearance have a huge impact in ride, descending and climbing. My gravel bike has 2.25 tires and can easily go 30mph down hill with extreme comfort and control.
Basically cx have a racier geometry while gravel bikes are similar to endurance bikes with wider tires and mounting lugs.
YES!
It makes sense to me -- cyclocross was originally a way of keeping road racers in riding shape in the off-season. The bikes were supposed to have the same geometry (at least the contact points) so that there would be no transition when the road season started back up. Thus, they'd have many of the same pluses and minuses as under-biking with a road race machine.
Thanks for sharing!
The Stigmata is more of a gravel bike now with the updated geometry as of 2020
Oh wow, I'll have to check it out!
They are really identical gravel geometry bikes. The Santa cruze actually has a lower bottom bracket and longer mechanical trail--making it actually more of a gravel bike. The reach is actually 13mm less in the same size santa cruze. I think they are 2 different size bikes you were comparing. The Stigmata does not offer an extra small size. Their woman's version, the Juiliana Quinjcy does indeed offer the same size as the Liv--xs and s sizes.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!
Tire size and air pressure will make a difference in road/bump feel. What are the tire sizes and air pressures.
Good point!! The psi was 35 on both. Interestingly the Santa Cruz had larger and more supple tires yet it rode harsher on bumpy sections.
@@lifesagem larger tires with the same air pressure as thinner tires will feel harsher.
@@kbilbee I will play around with tire pressure and let you know how it goes going forward :)
I think the best solution is owning a xs stigmata frame and getting a fit and the parts (stem handlebar cranks and tires) to make it comfortable for you. It's expensive to do that at this point since you have the 2 bikes already ☹️ I think that would produce the one bike to rule them all situation for you with the best of both worlds agility stability and comfort. Down to road maybe🙂👍🤙
Since I ride more gravel routes with long gravel descents, the Stig wouldn’t provide the necessary compliance necessary to ride on those bumpy and loose conditions. The Stig makes a lot of sense for cross season but I don’t think I’ll be racing this year.
Nice indeed, the bikes are sweeet as well. I picked up a Surly Midnight Special 2 years and 4000 miles ago. It took a sec to build the muscle up. Though carbon rattle traps are now on the menu. Have a blast lookin fine on your bike.
Right on, gravel bikes are awesome! Thanks for watching!
You deserve a bike sponsor. Great content.
That would be so awesome! 😊
:D spent the day testing the gravel routes of the local back coutry, only to have this pop up on CZcams afterwards :D
You pretty much sum up what I reacted to deciding between a gravel bike and a CX a couple of years ago, settling for a soft gravel bike with a large BB drop.
How did your two compare in BB drop? Does it even make a difference to you as a CX rider?
the santa cruz standover height looks way too tall for you
should be at least an inch of clearance
Thanks for the feedback. I agree! I actually sold the SC and have been fully enjoying the Liv!
I’d rather have an XC bike. A little slower on the road but far superior off road. I guess I’m old school.
It really depends on what you are using the bike for!
You can always tell a cyclist from their tan lines, haha. Great video!
Very true! haha :)
Great video! I work in a bike shop and honestly most people looking for gravel don’t even know what a CX is…and most of them will never been on terrain that deserves the full gravel bike. I have been testing tire brands / widths and pressures on my channel on my Rocky Mountain Cycle Cross Race (with a conversion to a 11-36 cassette and shorter stem) and even riding single track I haven’t found the need for the gravel bike…yet! I am thinking my next move will be to switch to a 650 wheel (like Cervelo Gravel Bikes run) to get some wider wheels and fatter tire as my CXR frame maxes out @38/40. Cheers!! Hi
Ps my cycling / adventure channel is @streetsandpeaks ✌🏼
awesome will check it out!
Did you saw canyon grail cf sl 8? OMG my next one. I think you will love it 2.
I haven't, will check out!
Personally I don't understand gravel bikes, wouldn't it be a lot more stable and comfortable to have a hardtail XC MTB with low profile tires instead ?
I personally started off with a gravel bike because I was racing cyclocross, and now I just ride that because it is what I've been riding since! :) I Would love to try other bikes though!
@@quandaledingle1583 I’m with you in those reasons as well!
Nope! Geometry, gearing and wheel size will always make the CX / gravel bike faster than an XC until the terrain gets too rough. No bumps…XC for the win! *Check out all the other ride tests in channels like GCN.
I love bonelli Park! There's some fun single track there 🤙
Bonelli park has everything!!
so Beautiful! niceey bike
Thank you very much!
Very nice comparison!!! Can’t wait to get into gravel someday
Thanks, you will love gravel riding!
❤️ soooooon!!!! 🧡
Nice comparison video! Wondering what camera was used for shooting it. Good image stabilisation.
Thank you so much! I used a GoPro Hero 8
Benelli Park is the best.
What's the weight of these 2 bikes ?
Watching this video makes me want to slap some wider tires on my SCHWINN and take it off paved roads again.
I love Bonelli park! I have not weighed them yet but will be doing that in a later video so stay tuned! I just know the Santa Cruz is definitely lighter than the Liv.
What trail are you riding around min 8 with all the flowers?! It looks so beautiful!
Also, love your channel! Can you do a video on tire pressure? I would be interested in hearing your opinions riding the same section with "max" psi (which a lot of people do without thinking) and slowly lowering the pressure.
Thank you so much for watching and supporting my channel!
I don't know the name of it but it is in Bonelli park! I'll put the Strava route in the description box for you so you can check it out.
I love the psi video idea, its a very interesting way to show how psi can really make a huge difference on how the ride feels! Thanks :)
Nice comparison! I gave up my Jake the Snake CX for an Apollo gravel bike from Priority Bikes. No regrets.
Omg, Jake the snake was my first CX bike!!! I sold it and got the Stig but I’m really loving the devote gravel bike atm!
Awesome video and great explanation
Thanks for making this video
I will wait your new content, cause i am new at bicycle scene
Subscribed 😁
Welcome aboard! I hope my content inspires you to discover new places by bike. Thank you !
when i see a gem, i subscribe. nice video.
Thanks for the sub!
The Santa Cruz is big for ya!
It really is!
Yeah, agree, go 2 sizes down, fatter tyres, and new bat...and you got an amazing bike for these trails
Hey Gem you ride so good! love the video! keep riding and having fun!!! big like! :)
Thank you 🤗 I will!
Great! 👌👌🤙
Effect of bottom bracket height on handling during descents? No one? Hello?
Tell me more about it!
@@lifesagem Your orange will never become an apple no matter how much you upgrade it. CX bikes have a shorter wheelbase and a higher bottom bracket than gravel bikes. This makes climbing switchbacks easier, which is necessary for CX race tracks. In high speed gravel road descents, a CX bike will feel more twitchy and less controllable because your center of gravity is higher and the shorter wheel base makes for a more direct response to steering movement. A gravel bike will have a longer wheel base and a lower center of gravity, basically like a normal road bike. The sloping top tube won't affect handling, the CX bike is designed to be shouldered quickly. You may want to try a shorter stem on the Santa Cruz to improve handling and fit.
@@TheSJONGEJONGEJONGE -this - you said it in one paragraph, what was glossed over his this near 11 min vid.
I think the 'twitchiness' or 'nimbleness' of CX bikes (depends on your perspective) boils down mostly to the wheelbase and fork geometry (fork offset, trail and head angle). With CX bikes being shorter and with the shorter trail. I have two bikes: a CX(ish) for fun and weekend riding and a cheap simple 'urban' bike to get around the town without being worried about the wellbeing of my bike. Both have 28" wheels, their button brackets seem to be on the same height (just stacked'em against each other), but the 'urban' is more upright, has a longer wheelbase and feels "slacker". The simplest way to explain is, is that the 'urban' bike is easier to ride hands-off. I can do it at lower speeds, I can do some sharper turns with no hands. But the CX bike (with hands ON) can take really tight U-turns. If I don't fall down, of course ;-)
bit difficult to compare two bikes of completely different price ranges
Moral of the video: buy a bike that fits you
Yes!!
Mountain bike time! hehe
I agree!!
can i ask permission to use this video as my story?.....
sure
Higher stack on the SC? But still spacers? Did you replicate the geo of the Liv on your SC?
The bottom bracket is higher so my whole body is higher that’s why I have spacers. I replicated the geo of the SC on my Liv.
Asked because I have one too…. and to replicate or hit my fit I had to use a -17 stem (looked goofy and replaced it with a drop 6)…. The SC fit is a bit different - though I love it! Feel like it is a geo that favors longer leg to torso ratio…. And, sadly I don’t have long legs…. great content!
The gravel bike is a big size for you ?
Just a bit!
No difference at all when you are riding them, you look absolutely gorgeous☺️ just saying✌️
I appreciate that
yeah! 👍
How tall are you and what size Devote did you get
I'm 5'6 and I got a small frame.
ciao , vieni a fare un giro in Toscana, è perfetta per le bici gravel
I would love to have an Italian summer in Toscana! It's a dream of mine :)
@@lifesagem if you decide to come, if you want I can give you some advice🤙🤙
Helluva tan you got there
Thanks
do you wear padded shorts?
I do but recently I've been enjoying these for shorter rides.
Where are you climbing at
Bonelli Park
@@lifesagem does it cost anything to ride in there
@@Anothaday676 it does not! You only pay if you come in with a car.
@@lifesagem okay was wondering, I live in Azusa and ride by there and wasn’t sure if I have to pay
Good bike 2
Sure is
Good work with the video. I am sure you have heard it before. But you should try a mountain bike. Either way. Enjoy the ride. Have Fun.
Thanks! I have heard it before, and I do want to try a mountain bike. I’ll eventually get one but for now, I’ll just keep shredding on the gravel bike :)
Wow. Absolutely no comment on the single most significant difference -- the drive train! That gravel bike with two front cranks, including the larger one that is significantly larger than the single crank on the cross bike, will always have the advantage on descents where it's safe to go fast. The one with the smaller crank won't be able to keep up. You must not have had a chance to really wind these suckers up on a descent. You would have noticed the when you ran out of gears on the cross bike at about 25 mph.
es mas importante la diferencia de ruedas entre ambas bicicletas.
That is definitely something I should have mentioned! Thanks for your input!
las ruedas también hacen diferencia!
That liv is Chingon it looks like the evil chamois Hagar
Btw I copied the rice in a bag lonche
I agree, the Liv is hella chingon! I’m so glad you copied the rice lonche, that’s stuff gives you all the necessary energy! 😊🙌🏽
Ballin'🤑😉👌👍
😊😊😊
parang may puntong piniy toits 😄
🏆🏆🏆👍🇺🇲🙏
SUBSCRIBED
Thank you for sharing
oh my!! thank you for your support, it means a lot!
I think there's nothing hotter than a woman with cyclist tan
I love my cycling tans lol
hahahaha absolutamente cierto
wow you're pretty !
🙏🏽🙏🏽
😊 lovely beautiful
Thank you! Cheers!
The only distinct thing about cx bikes is what uci says it should be. Don't fall for the scam of first generation mtb with drop bars rebranded as a new thing.
There's more difference between trail bikes of different brands than the two bikes you have.
It's a total marketing gimmick.
I'm just doing a comparison of what I already have, thought people might be interested :)
There is a difference. I have both and I can easily say that the gravel bike is the comfort bike of drop-bars. The geometry and tire clearance have a huge impact in ride, descending and climbing. My gravel bike has 2.25 tires and can easily go 30mph down hill with extreme comfort and control.
Can't see any difference other than the Santa Cruz being a nice bike and the Liv being ugly.
I always liked the look of the Santa Cruz ;)
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
you sounds like pinoy 😁
Interesting!
👍💛💜💚💘
thanks for watching!
marry me
Sorry, already happily married.
this young woman is adorable.
🥰🥰🥰🙏🏽