Why Do I Use Linux Instead Of BSD?
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- čas přidán 30. 05. 2024
- A question that I often get asked is "Why don't you use BSD?" The answer to this question is rather simple, but I wanted to ramble a bit on some of the reasons that I think people "assume" are my reason why I choose Linux over BSD.
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What I do like about BSD is the simpler file (folder) system. But, +1 for the point about hardware support.
@Unknown more linux snittiness. psssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.
@Andrew Erwin - I agree and also think the same of the more simple init system and more detailed documentation in the man pages. I use Debian, Arch, and FreeBSD and each have their strong points depending on the application.
@@diancecht9918 lol what's wrong with using the correct terminology
@@xynyde0 I'll go even farther than you and say that in cases such as this we SHOULD use the correct terminology. If I see a comment like Andrew's and want to learn more, I'll search online for the directory structure and hierarchy of BSD and how it compares with linux's.
So it has actual utility to use the correct terminology.
@@diancecht9918 What's wrong with you?
I'm a BSD fan. There are different ones for different jobs. Free, Net, Open, Dragonfly BSD are great. You have 40+ years of code maturity baked in and they are constantly evolving. BSD OSs are true Unix descendants, and not a "work alikes". Big companies use BSD software such as Apple, Sony, NetApp, Dell, Netflix and more. Netflix pushes some serious amounts of data using FreeBSD. Thank FreeBSD if you like streaming Stranger Things, etc. Many of those companies do give back to their respective communities. BSD definitely has its place. GNU/Linux does too. I firmly believe if it wasn't for the USL lawsuits, BSD would be on top today. I do use GNU/Linux but it's not my preferred OS. I do like the distributions that are more BSD or Unix-like, though.
'BSD OSs are true Unix descendants, and not a "work alikes"' is not an argument for anything, plus at this point you have to decide between two things, either Linux is a more successful system than Unix ever was, or you take Macs into account.
as DT once said, who cares about "true Unix" lineage, Unix was and is proprietary garbage. the Free systems we have today are 10x better than what proprietary Unix was and is, why would you want to attach yourself to a proprietary operating system
@@discomallard69 Half of Darwin (Apple's Kernel) is ported from FreeBSD hence the hackintosh community being able to port video & audio drivers from FreeBSD so easily.
@@discomallard69 Im not 100% but - FreeBSD is not a corporate shills driven OS.
Also things like TrueNAS Core, and Opnsense/Pfsense.
Awesome to see how you got more confident with your videos and youre also looking into the camera, respect
About the freebsd virtual hugs thing, they later removed that clause because they did a poll with active freebsd developers and the majority of the devs (who had an opinion on it) were dissatisfied with the code of conduct and only 4% wanted to keep it. They adopted the LLVM code of conduct instead because thats what most of the devs wanted. The LLVM code of conduct does not have any clause about hugs. Freebsd devs were not offended by hugs.
Accepting it would mean accepting that a code of conduct treats you like a child. How does developing an operating system have anything to do with people needing hugs?
@@Reichstaubenminister That was so stupid, but having a (sensible) code of conduct is a bit important, at least to prevent abuses and bullying. I still think it should be as simple as "don't be an asshole and treat others with respect" tho.
@@Vlad-1986 No, it is not important. I don't need personal interactions codified, especially not to resolve conflicts with politically motivated, delusional people. We are talking about men claiming to be women (or neither men or woman) and an open source software project trying to force me to play along with it.
@@Reichstaubenminister hear hear
@@Reichstaubenminister Dang, you're exactly the kind of person which necessitates the need for code of conducts.
BSD has some strength points over Linux, but the exactness of such a statement like this falls short of the whole; I want the UNIX space to have as much options out there, and I'd consider BSD as a non-gui word processing workstation for writing... it doesn't need to be a desktop to be great, that stuff is just visual stimuli for internet points at best, a series of hamstrung compromises at worst. I want it to eventually stand out as a desktop operating system, I figure I'd be around my late 40's to mid 50's at that point.
FreeNAS is BSD based and has a WebGUI. It works well for those who need an OS to manage a large software RAID. I only have a basic RAID 1 setup on mine so I opted to go back to GNU/Linux due to me being able to install PlexPass releases easier. And Plex has a bunch of conversion issues when running on Windows so that was a no-go for me too.
KDE actually works pretty okay on FreeBSD (if you ignore the lack of wi-fi or proper sound card support)
@@mawi2815 I briefly tried NomadBSD and installed XFCE4 on it for curiosity (well ... colliding with plank and tint2 a bit). I had no issue with wifi on notebook (well, it took me 20 minutes to realize how to use /etc/wpa_supplicant and how to restart whole network layer after i gave up messing with ifconfig). I had no issue with sound neither. Actually it ran well considering it ran from USB SD card reader. But I was unable to regulate fans (not shown by sysctl) so they ran at full speed, I was unable to change display brightness, I was unable to mount anything using exfat (all usb disks) and I was unable to hibernate system. On my PC with Ryzen 5900x cpu and B550m chipset, I was unable to find RTL8125 network card and something between xorg/xfce/sddm/display was broken. xorg started after restart or two and windows had no decorations. Being unable to resize/move windows, connect to internet and access any usb disk I could not do much.
But I would like to use FreeBSD, cause system feels more simple and stable in long term - I mean how many times Linux renamed some devices, changed firewall and tools, replaced some tools (ifconfig, route, ... -> ip, cat /var/log/messages|grep something -> journalctl something, ...), changed stuff in /proc .... I'm not sure if it's faster or if ZFS is superior to BTRFS however and if it has other advantages than being more simple and straight forward.
@@techguydilan Why do you use Plex instead of basic NAS or DLNA/UPnP?
@@encycl07pedia- Mainly because of easier mobile and chromecast access. I like being able to sync my music on the go. DLNA was also dissolved in 2017 so it's not very secure to keep using it.
If you don't want to use Plex there's open source alternatives like Jellyfin. One person I work with setup their own Jellyfin server, and said it was pretty easy.
"I started using vim and then progressed to emacs..."
Indeed, not all progress is forward.
Isn't what you insinuating already have a name of its own? Regress, Recess, Decline, etc.
@@mnurrreza Yes that is the point
Hey DT thank you for making this video. My Thinkpad T440 has Fedora Plasma and OpenBSD xfce each installed on its own drive. I boot into and use both every week. I like to use OpenBSD for everything I can and Linux for everything else. I’m hoping to get involved with the project and help them with advocacy. No one is better than anyone else because of what they choose to use. You’re probably familiar with Zaney and how he recorded and live-streamed from OpenBSD. A couple of weeks ago he left OpenBSD for good after he had better performance on Debian. That’s totally fair. He gave OpenBSD a lot of good publicity. I appreciate you addressing this as well.
Thanks for all you do brother. I stumbled across one of your videos and it got me right back into Linux. I hadn't tinkered with it for close to ten years. There have been some improvements 🤣.
BSD is going to be the next “enthusiast” operating system. As Linux becomes more mainstream, BSD will come to replace Linux in areas like the DIY OS space.
Yeah, I believe that some edgy Linux users will use it to get "Cool points". And yes, I am an OpenBSD user
@@speedyfox9080 Are you calling Linux users edgy or saying that there are more edgy Linux users?
That is stupid, why use a harder to use operating system when you have a good open source one? I understand the hate for Windows being closed source, but Linux is open source.
@@SliceJosiah I am saying that SOME Linux users are using Linux just because they want to feel superior, nonetheless they use Linux.
I use Sparc NetBSD btw
Any *nix type operating system can pretty much be what you want it to be. So I know my reasoning is just based on which has the most resources available to users. Linux definitely has more support for people using it as an everyday system.
Incorrect, BSD is an entirely different kernel; as such if the kernel lacks a feature adding it is outside the use case of the majority of users.
Not seeing "systemd[1]: systemd 234.5.6 running in system mode" in your kernel log is enough to use BSD. Invested too much into Linux, but have BSD in my heart. The feeling I have while working on FreeBSD is amazing. Linux has become a Frankenstein system.
Indeed, like a lot of features introduced into Linux over the last decade are poorly designed versions of features from Solaris 10 (or illumos). In the case of systemd, that is SMF. The idea isn't a bad one but it has to be done right. The BSDs tend toward being highly conservative, which saves them from making stupid mistakes. I like that about the BSDs. But some ideas in Solaris 10 (and illumos) are just right and objectively better. Alas, just being better doesn't mean all that much.
Just use another init system if you don't like systemd. Gentoo has OpenRC and allows you to choose another one like runit or s6. Void Linux also comes with runit by default.
@@framepointer that removes the main arguments against BSD though (ease of use and compatibility)
Slackware for the win.
I would like to see an install video of FreeBSD, though. Your install videos are fun and I'd like to see install videos of lots of operating systems not just Linux. Not asking you to make a move to other OSes, just show us an install to a VM.
@@0xDEAD-C0DE I tried NetBSD back 20 years ago.
He’s done like 2 of them I think
@@0xDEAD-C0DE Setting up FreeBSD is harder than with Linux distros like Arch tho, and while it's true that there is a handbook, for the casual user, installing a Linux distro is much easier and faster by a huge difference.
@@Sumire973 Having installed both a fair number of times, I have to call BS. Unless you've got weird hardware that isn't supported under *BSD, the install process isn't appreciably harder.
@@0xDEAD-C0DE I've never timed an install, but since moving to SSDs even the huge and heavy Garuda Linux Dragonized KDE installs in way less than 10 minutes. Even on 10 year old hardware with DDR3 and an mSATA SSD.
I like what you said at the beginning. No, we don't use Linux to be cool, or as a fashion (heard that so many times), but because it's better. As a Linux user, I just never have a single problem on my laptop, and I remember the Windows days as an old nightmare gone forever. Plus, I really love penguins.
I started my *nix journey in the early 2000's with SuSE and then Slackware for about four years before trying FreeBSD. I never looked back. I love BSD but good golly as long as I've been using it, Linux just wouldn't make sense for me. I think there's a few viable positives over Linux as a desktop/home user, but I'm just not into arguing and debating over names, which is a majority of what flame wars tend to be about. At the end of the day, I hope people will try lots of things and take what fits them best because guess what, you're the one living with it and trying to accomplish things at the end of the day.
I totally understand what your saying. Food for thought. Hardware support may not be perfect and you have to tweak certain things to work in FreeBSD. I've got many certain pieces of hardware to work. Some things like cameras can be buggy on it but I really do like this topic. I love FreeBSD but it does take some time to setup when you first get to use it. I've been able to setup newer computers with it. I've become so adept to setting up FreeBSD with install that I just go right into the shell after install and setup things to run at boot thru /boot/loader.conf /etc/rc.conf and /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf and /etc/sys.conf. I do agree with certain things about hardware Linux is still ahead but FreeBSD isn't too far behind. I lived in FreeBSD for months. Their quality of sound once you setup mics and stuff of that nature is incredible quality. Desktop wise everything has to be manually setup like your polkit to shutdown the os. Weather it's any kind of window manager or desktop environment it all has to be setup. I am using Linux right now for most things. I like the non systemD distros of Linux. Which I understand your view on that also. I'd say test and see what hardware works once in awhile you could test your stuff with NomadBSD to see what works and what doesn't. Both are different but anything is better than Microsoft Windows lol
Linux is about freedom and choice. BSD is about freedom and choice. You can choose not to use them, or which one to use. The only person it should matter to is you.
Keep preaching Open Source, Brother!
*sending a virtual hug*
Hey DT: Noticed your microphone and just wondered what one it is? Is it a dynamic or condenser? Model number would be nice too! Many Thanks.
It's an RE20
@@TheOvermaster cool. That would be “the” broadcast standard. I just never saw one with that sort of pop filter on it. Threw me off a bit.😊
On haters (trolls)... I have nothing but love for your channel and my very limited interaction through patreon and the one video chat I was on a month or so ago, I have nothing but admiration and gratitude for your helping me personally through your work and your channel. I do mention you in my intro video on my channel which is very low quality and unedited (raw) video, but getting ready to do my video 1 which should have much better production quality. So THANK-YOU!
As a new user to Linux full-time, I'd love to try BSD out one day but probably not for a while, years even as I relearn everything I know about PCs with Linux after being on Windows my whole life. But like you I truly believe in the open source philosophy and if I can support anything that follows that ethos then I'll gladly do so, either by using it and talking to friends about it or with a donation if I can afford it. BSD or Linux; the more support they get, the better FOSS will get.
Sticking with Linux my hardware works. Had my headaches with Linux years ago now I am enjoying it. Great video! No more projects for me!
Hey DT. Greatings from Portugal. You Said that qtile is one of yours's favorite twm, but on any new video that i see you still using xmonad. Why you perfer xmonad to qtile? Continue your great job!
The license is one major reason Linux is better, not just morally but practically. With BSD companies do not have to release their improvements, for example has the fact Playstation now use BSD helped the general BSD desktop improve as a result ? .. Compare to Linux/Valve, the changes that company adds helps every Linux, this is partly a result of the license that Linux uses.
Licences don''t make operating systems better. In fact, they can get in the way (like the GPL does). Licensing is the last reason to select an OS to use. Also Sony did contribute back. As a counterexample, Netflix uses FreeBSD a lot, and is also a major contributor to the FreeBSD project. They don't have to, but they do that anyway. Weird how that works. Likewise for Juniper, and even Apple.
@@Andrath If licensing wasn't a factor in choosing an OS to use, then we'd all be happy with proprietary Windows. Sony, Apple, etc barely contribute anything major back to FreeBSD, why would they when they have no obligation to? The GPL prevents corporations from taking free code and keeping it proprietary.
@@Andrath Sony contributes security patches and other minor things to upstream, but that doesn't translate to the most important thing Sony can contribute, which is gaming. Sony could actually benefit from this too, because they have the ability to support FreeBSD on the desktop and thus not be dependent on Microsoft's OS which is their direct competitor on consoles, which would allow them to resist the latter's buying studios spree. and survive. But since they don't, it's only a matter of time before Sony ends up like Sega at some point, humbled and doomed to be a third-party company, they'll deserve it for parasites anyway.
And yes, the permissive license is the main reason why they chose BSD over Linux, otherwise they would have stayed with Linux, because Linux can do everything that BSD can, it's more popular and therefore more widely supported, original Android devs chose Linux over a BSD kernel because of hardware support, even though they hated the GPL license.
@@babyboomertwerkteam5662 What justifies that restriction on use? *BSD hasn't had any real issues with attracting developers and contributions from businesses. People keep saying that Linux is more free, but the fact of the matter is that there's somewhere between little and no evidence to justify that restriction.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade there is no restriction on use. Keep the code free and you can use Linux for whatever you like.
DT, you have taught me about Linux at the Moderate Usert level. Love your vids
I tried BSD once over the linux. It was like steps behind the linux
Not really, Linux focuses on a bunch of flashy stuff, but much of it won't work. I remember one distro required a physical keyboard to be plugged in in order to log into the system even though I was using a bluetooth keyboard. I had to reinstall Ubuntu dozens of times due to filesystem corruption due to an unstable filesystem being used.
It's easy to look like you're ahead when you can't be bothered to get the basics right. Hell, the first time I tried Linux it didn't even have a real package management system. You had to go and manually download all the packages that you needed, even though FreeBSD had a functioning package management system for years at that point.
THE LINUX
@@SmallSpoonBrigade depends on the distro you use, it really makes no sense to blame the kernel lmao
For anyone that has run FreeBSD on the hardware.....what laptops do you recommend other than the Thinkpad series?
I like both. I often prefer staying on openbsd because everything is so more simple and well documented. Things like network, firewall and sound are orders of magnitude easier to deal with and harder to break on bsd than on linux and they develop great software like tmux, cwm, openssh, ksh which I happen to run them on linux as well. But it lacks a lot of things specially related to artistic work. I often need to produce music and make digital drawings and I really have to boot linux for that because bsd lacks drivers/software I need.
Exactly
what about linux compatibility layer?
I've tried BSD several times over the last 20 years, and have kept going back to Linux for the simple reason that it's better supported. More packages are available on Linux, better hardware support, and there's more community forums for help. And at the end of the day, there's little reason to use BSD except for the technical challenge.
@@berkantkayar669 i guess that 30% of programmers are 'edgy teenagers', not because Windows is bad for their work flow.
also 80% of sysadmins, since Windows server is a joke.
Intel must be a company full of 'teenagers', after all, they are the largest contributor to the Linux kernel.
@@berkantkayar669Dude what are you smoking? Programmers aren't people who like to hack their OS or anything. They use it because it's simple better for development purposes. GCC built in and all the different utilities already there. Linux also has a huge community that actually contribute code, unlike windows which is limited to just Microsoft employees, so it exactly the opposite of what you said. It isn't written by 10 people but 10s of thousands of people.
I use FreeBSD as my daily drive , like browsing, editing some document files etc, as my laptop was come without any pre-installed OS. I am happy with Free BSD. So simple , very low on system resources and it just works. I am not a programmer just a normal user who use computer for very basic things.
I know this is off topic, I love your channel and the wealth of linux knowledge I've accumulated since I discovered it. I followed your advice awhile ago by using the latest Anti-X. Everything was fine for months; out of the blue I now have a black screen and flashing cursor and I watched a dozen of videos to find a remedy - to no avail. Please help, thanks.
I'm used to nano and I have been experimenting vi now, and if one wrong click like Del keyboard, everything stuck with file path appearing there, and have to reboot the vm.
well, you nailed it - BSD is the one serious OS that we can fall back on if Linux falters on some basis (the most likely would be political), we need to all show it some love so it stays around. Wonder if would be able to port the Linux module framework to BSD so Linux device drivers could be used as that would be hugely enabling if could use Linux device drivers as is...
Linux only the kernel, and there many forks or mods for the Kernel. Things like Systemd etc. are heavily discussed and many Distros use different Packages. So there is literally no point that we need a Fallback
@@anonymunsichtbar3715 That's also where most of the issues I've had with Linux come from. Because these are all independent projects, you get problems like some projects sucking in all sorts of functionality that they shouldn't have and leading to conflicts where one package will require one set of audio libraries and another will require a separate incompatible set and neither of the sets of libraries actually plays well with the other. It's massively annoying.
*BSD is it's own thing and on the whole better engineered. That's not to say that Linux doesn't have its benefits, just realize that things are far less consistent in terms of functioning. I've never had FreeBSD dump me to a log in with a broken UI or file system that's clearly alpha quality that will require a reinstallation every time that I restart the computer, like some Linux distros have.
BSD Isn't going anywhere anytime soon, Both Apple and SONY are big investors in BSD, for one FreeBSD is the backbone of Darwin which is the open-source version of macOS and SONY uses FreeBSD as the backend of the Playstation 3/4/5 operating systems but unfortunately no terminal or DE out of the box...
Linux is superior to BSD on political terms tho. the BSD license is a joke
i'm guessing if we need always everything to everything? no.
i like to think Free\OpenBSD are best in servers and Linux slightly better in work machines...but even if we do we need a work machine for daily using? isn't enuff a standard pc without pro tools?
and again why we need to say only a way to use or to be is good?
everything of this sounds, well, stupid!
I tried OpenBSD on a raspberry pi for my nextcloud. The problem is the file system support. OpenBSD does not support ext4 write as I read and the only option to go for a filesystem which can be used with other machines is ext2 but that has no journal and appears to be very slow on the hard drive. That is why I am thinking of installing raspbian again and use ext4 which just works
Why OpenBSD? Why not FreeBSD?
I usually use a combination of ProxMox, Kali and Parrot for my day job, however, I have been asked to make more videos for my clients. On a priority schema of 3-1, the first priority is "stability", secondary priority would be "speed/rendering performance" and tertiary priority would be "collaboration" (i.e. Sharing content with clients and other creative professionals). What are your thoughts on this?
Has Parrot been acting fucky for you at all the last couple months?
The BSDs don't run certain protected content on initial setup. There are published patches -- which I haven't instilled yet. I'm amazed how much is in the repository, including leafpad.
hardware support on bsds can actually be better than on linux.
I believe openbsds had Mac's m1 arch on tier 2 support before asahi linux and others were able to support it well
Mac OS is based off of BSD and Apple probably contributed the M1 driver to its kernel for letting them use it. But I have run into it not supporting Intel and nVidia graphics well enough to run a DE usably.
For me video and audio device support would probably be the biggest issue. I need UVC and USB audio class support to do what I do. I also need some GPU processing power.
Openbsd has by far the worst hardware support of any BSD
Yes, hardware is a pain. Native ZFS with the ability to send and receive (encrypted) snapshots between the machines is the killer feature that keeps me on FreeBSD.
thank you for your satisfying answer sir. yeah, in the end we need the most suitable for ourself not because of other peoples said and validated. please do keep on doing what your doing and have a great day sir. we need more positive people and less toxic people in this world.
nice video. helped persuade me to stop banging my head. i wanted to use it as a server os, but yeah the pain and learning curve were not yet as advantageous as compared to learning to use linux in the same way. like you say i very much hope that linux doesnt become unusable. thanks
Hey DT thanks for the Xmonad Videos. I agree, there's not a whole lot of incentive to move to FreeBSD and there are things that would be lost like the pile of software that Linux has.
Good Perspective. I get the hardware support being behind... but... in my experience, BSD tends to be quite a bit faster than GNU/Linux everything else being equal, so while on paper it doesn't quite match up to GNU/Linux for hardware support, in practice, it feels just as fast and snappy on older hardware. Also, me being a very heavy FreeBSD user, I wonder if you've ever looked at the ports and packages available to FreeBSD because generally, most all the things you can do in GNU/Linux software-wise have either been ported via the ports tree, or BSD has an equivalent. I hear quite a bit about "missing software" for FreeBSD, but actually looking at what's available usually turns up either a port, or the BSD equivalent. Typically, if you can't find a port, it's usually because there's already a native BSD equivalent that you probably just don't know about.
All that said, only you can decide what works for you, and if that's what you're using now, great!
Great work Thank you
BeOS was one of my first "out of windows" experiences :P
It didn't stick, obviously.
But Linux, specifically Pop!_OS, stuck with me after I installed it as my only OS on my gaming PC December last year, much thanks to you(and other Linux CZcamsrs).
Beating a dead horse here but hopefully LTT wasn't a factor in picking Pop :P
CreeVal used BeOS
After winter's cold and snow
CreeVal used Pop!_OS
Everyone who uses BeOS deserves at least one haiku.
What a question, how do you play Dirt Rally 2.0 with a racing wheel on bsd???. You can use Void for a more bsd-ish approach than say ubuntu, but really a pure desktop has basically no reason to be running bsd if you want peripherals to work.
As polygot of operating systems this is 100% on point.
For my laptop and work workstation I run arch Linux. For my server infrastructure I run OpenBSD on web facing stuff and FreeBSD through PFsense on the edge firewall. For my domain controller I run Windows Server because it works best with the legions of Windows workstations I support. Our creative guys use MacOS to do their jobs.
At the end of the day use the best tool for the job and ignore the narrow minded haters.
About If I have to resume this video and YOUR point in just a passage: 8:01 .
Instead, my personal preferences about FOSS OSES would be: Linux system as desktop, FreeBSD as server, OpenBSD as firewall.
I do NOT like fundamentalist ideas. I don't like much GPL virality, nor the idea of a communitiy - behind an open OS - to support only 100% BSD software and BUT ONLY that, limiting themselves.
The choice of system depends on HW accessible, SW You know or that You have to use (for example proprietary ones).
At the moment, for myself, if I have to choose one only open system, I would choose FreeBSD. After that, a second choice would be Haiku just for spirit of entertainement (that is important too).
hey DT, It would be cool listening you giving your impressions on the serenityOS project
To be fair, if you like Unix it is difficult not to fall in love with it. I got it on some of my machines, and used to run it in a partition on my main laptop when I had a P50 and it was able to accept multiple hard drives....
As soon as I finish university I'll probably have it back as my main OS.
Hardware support is a hit or miss, but I always recommend trying it out, as it improved a lot in the last 2 years. The learning curve comes with a much much easier system management after you climbed that curve than in Linux. I think it is sensible to try it out, even on a VM and get familiar with it if you like your OSes. In any case they are all free to test out!.
For servers I think OpenBSD is the best, same for legacy hardware but I don't run any server, so haven't tested it out in years.
Worth noting that there are probably less than half a dozen BSD variants, yet they are sufficiently incompatible with each other that they cannot even share kernel code (cf the WireGuard débâcle).
For comparison, the number of Linux distros is not one, but more like two orders of magnitude greater, yet they all manage to share the same core kernel.
People sometimes like to refer to the Linux world as “fragmented”. It is not “fragmented”; BSD is.
The difference is that with the BSD variants they are officially considered to be different operating systems, and developers knows that, unlike Linux, which has thousands of distros, some totally incompatible with others, and still are considered part of the "same OS".
Each of the BSD systems have different targets, FreeBSD being the only general purpose one, if you don't count proprietary derivatives like macOS of course, so Linux is still much more fragmented under this scheme anyway.
Those hundreds of Linux distros are more compatible with each other than, say, OpenBSD and FreeBSD.
I mention WireGuard because that illustrates the fragmentation problems. Once WireGuard was put into Linux, it was available to every Linux distro. It was also implemented for OpenBSD. But moving that code to FreeBSD opened a whole host of problems, documented in an Ars Technica article.
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 That only happens because they share the same kernel, but the rest is exactly the same story. and as i said, OpenBSD, FreeBSD and the other flavors of BSD are different operating systems in its own and are officially considered that way, you can't run OpenBSD binaries on FreeBSD and vice versa for the same reason you can't run macOS binaries on Linux.
@@Sumire973 Which is exactly why I said: the BSDs are fragmented in a way that Linux is not.
Hey DT! I got a video idea: do a windows managers tier list. It would be a nice way to recap everything you've learned about all these WMs over the years, with their pros and cons for your audience.
He did several times though in the past, and his opinion didn't change much on these WMs so he won't make any new one i guess
@@gamerking64 He did a series on Wms and many separate videos. But never like a recap, a one-stop video for someone who wants an overview of everything there is out there to make his choice. And the tier-list format seems nice for that. Very memey, very "what are kids up to these days?". I think it would be appealing to his audience. I know I'd watch that.
@@themroc8231 czcams.com/video/wGXdqZv71CA/video.html
he has a window manager video its called top 5 window managers look it up before suggesting things
@@redrebel__ there is alot, that was just an example
I really like how you can talk about different things that you don't prefer without being rude or using foul language. It's important to be family friendly on the internet and a lot of people forget that.
It's the Internet, yes civility and kind language is nice, but it's the Internet, anybody who cares that much probably shouldn't be online.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade It's not something to get outraged over, I'm just saying honesty with civility is nice.
I was wondering if you can make a tutorial of using dotfiles on Arch
I think your content here is pretty spot on. I Do think that hardware support from the BSDs is better than you give credit for, and likewise too I think there's more software available than you give credit for, but it is true that the software library is less, I'm betting in the multimedia realm and I also know basically all the electron software is missing. As for the server, I haven't found much lacking. I have the databases, languages, web servers, DNS servers, other server applications. I think saying the BSD operating systems are "decades" behind is also wrong. The thing is, Linux is taking a lot of time catching up to the BSDs and Illumos in terms of features. All the "shiny" things the Linux community wants, the other FOSS OSes have had for...decades. What Linux has WAY more of is mindshare...and orchestration and automation integration. That's about it. Maybe I'm missing something. I'm a Linux admin by day and a BSD hobbyist by night (as well as an OpenBSD and Fedora Linux desktop user)
I think where the BSD operating systems are cool is in their design and their different approaches. I love how clear the documentation and man pages are, the attention to detail, the design, organization, cohesion, simplicity, and how each BSD fits a unique bill. FreeBSD has a heavy focus on performance and storage and stability, OpenBSD has a heavy emphasis on security, correctness, simplicity, NetBSD wants to work on every architecture ever, DragonflyBSD has some really cool ideas with its message passing system and HAMMER2 filesystem. I think that's what excites me. Linux has been beating a lot of the same drum. Desktops and whatever the large corporations are needing (like, why should I care about Kubernetes? Do I really need such overhead to run stuff for myself?). I am super excited for the direction Linux has taken with gaming though. I'm no longer running Windows now and I don't miss it. And Linux does a great job at handling the video work I do from time to time. This comment is too long. I could also do a 15+ minute video on my thoughts in addition to yours as a way of agreement and rebuttal. So, thank you for another good video DT :)
very informative, thanks
@Zaydan Naufal BSD. man pages are better, system layouts make more sense, init scripts are simple and self documenting, good handbooks and FAQ pages for understanding common tasks and issues. Most common problems can be solved from within that OSes documentation. No having to look at old forums posts, stack overflows, reddits, etc. for most things. In fact, if you do, someone will either point you to, or you will later find the exact answer you wanted from the project's documents. Debugging service init issues is easier too. Just recently I had to build redis from source on Ubuntu and create my own systemd service file. The included one didn't work. I spent hours trying to get it started with systemd because logging of Why something is happening can be very vague. On BSD it's easy to debug your init scripts and add console logging.
I admin 60 Linux systems daily as well as about 5 FreeBSD systems and 2 OpenBSD. The BSD systems have been better 90% of the time
the thing about the "software and driver availability" situation on different FOSS operating systems that I don't quite understand is: if the application or driver is FOSS, then what's keeping people from taking the source code and porting it over to another OS ...
it has been done already ... Gimp, gwenview, audacious, falkon and many other applications are available on linux, haiku and the BSDs - so I think the reason why firefox for example is not yet available on HaikuDepot is either:
A: nobody has ported (and packaged) it yet
or B: the license is incompatible and does not allow it (dunno how important that is - I did not dig deep enough into this but AFAIK the license does not matter for userspace applications, or does it?)
I hope that one day, all operating systems worth their salt get on the same level regarding software and hardware support, so it really is only a matter of personal preference which OS someone uses.
Mainly due to licensing issues and proprietary firmware, for example open source GPU drivers provided by manufacturers usually rely on blobs, in the case of BSDs these use Linux code to workaround it, but since Haiku is another paradigm (monolithic OS like Windows) and doesn't use X11 or Wayland, they must face great limitations.
I just tried BSD, I don't know about FreeBSD souch as I haven't get it to full function yet but I don't think it will fail me when I know more, but for OpenBSD I don't feel like I will try again after I got it works last time, it locks home folder from browser access and that make me can't upload anything from my computer except from downloads folder and that's not what it should be.
I'm a FreeBSD user, and I understand. My main laptop for more than ten years has been a Mac, because most of the software I want to run is available for it, and the command line tools are mostly the BSD versions. I just bought a new laptop, and I'm going to try to run FreeBSD on it, but if I can't make it work I'll install Linux.
Good morning! I'm in big trouble, that's it. i am on the linux distribution zorin os 16. from a course my pc is started on tyy1. i know a startx command i did it gave me this information oh! thin something went wrong a problem is stored and the system cannot recover disconnect and reconnect again.
For me, it has next to no secureboot support. Cant sign kernel modules, no native toolchain for building unified kernel images.
are you on nostr yet dt?
The reason why I like learning hard stuff like vim is the process of doing so helps me learn about computers in greater depth in general
what is OpenBSD/ BSD in general? is it just a seperate kernal for linux not being developed by Gnu.
Linux *is* the kernel, GNU/Linux distros are centered around the Linux kernel, you can't just change the kernel to BSD and have it work, you need another OS and ecosystem centered around it (though a lot of the posix compliant modules are quite interoperable). BSD is both a kernel (micro kernel, very different architecture) and a whole separate project/system, it's maybe even more secure than Linux but lacks hardware support as well as software support, there isn't really a need for it outside of the server space.
the linux kernel is not developed by GNU. GNU's kernel is Hurd (it's actually called Mach but no one cares anyway), it's in development for over 30 years, only supports ext2, only supports i386 and their ipv6 implementation is from linux kernel 2.14 so thank God Linux is not developed by GNU
BSD = Berkley Software Distribution
There are three main branches of BSD on which all other BSDs are based:
FreeBSD - This is the "main one" that's a general purpose system that excels as a robust server platform. Its history can be traced all the way back to the original UNIX systems.
NetBSD - Originally derived from the FreeBSD project before it took a life of it's own, focuses on having a general purpose system that can run on literally anything.
OpenBSD - Originally derived from the FreeBSD project before it took a life of it's own, focuses on being the most secure system in the world out of the box.
The BSDs are basically the unsung heroes of software development. For example, the TCP/IP network stack written for FreeBSD is often used by other platforms. Even Microsoft used to use it for Windows. FreeBSD is often the base for many other projects (some paid, some free) like TrueNAS which is an operating system for storage systems. TrueNAS used to be known as FreeNAS where "Free" was a reference to the "Free" in FreeBSD.
OpenBSD is most famous for being used to create secure operating systems used on many enterprise class firewalls and other security appliances. It's also where the famous OpenSSH program came from.
NetBSD is known for being ported to the strangest hardware you can think of...often just for fun...like for some reason someone got it up and running on a toaster. Think of it a base often used for "Internet of Things" (IOT) devices when they aren't built around the Linux kernel.
The BSDs have absolutely nothing to do with GNU, the GPL, or Linux. However, Linux systems usually use code and applications originally developed on a BSD system such as OpenSSH and OpenSSL.
Also, FreeBSD was used as the base for the Darwin project which Apple then used to develop MacOS. The BSDs are literally the reason why Apple's software works the way it does now. Apple saw a robust reliable system, customized it, and made it their own.
The best way to get a handle on it though is to download it and test it out for yourself in a VM. You'll quickly see that it's its own world separate from what Linux does.
@@gwgux nice explain! ...
@@DMSBrian24 BSD is monolithic
As a long time FreeBSD user I can honestly say I prefer Linux as a desktop OS, though when I can use it FreeBSD is my go to for servers.
I agree with your reasoning here and wish that someone would come along and write an entirely new OS to compete with Linux. Given that I know how much work goes into writing an OS, that won't happen, but I still wish it would.
I tried BSD and I can see where it might be of some value in some situations. I keep a copy of dragonfly on a virtual machine but I do not actually use it. BSD is pretty good and I, like you, wish it was better so that if something happened we would have somewhere else we could go for free software. But it is not good as a daily driver, I just cannot believe it will be either in the near future.
tbh right now BSDs and especially FreeBSD got main 3 pros that Gnu-Linux doesn't have: 1)BSD license, simple, it allows to create MacOS(they hired Hubbard the CEO of FreeBSD into MacOS for ten years) and PS4 os; 2) more stability, Gnu-Linux isn't famous for being the best kernel while FreeBSD is; 3) OpenBSD is right now famous for being the most secure ever os for servers...that's it.
i think nobody will win into this 3 options, Linux kernel is so fragmentated in many comunities, but for the rest better Gnu-Linux...that's sad, tbh, i dislike when there's monopolism and Stallman is acting like "i'm pro freedom" but he is creating his monopolism.
@@Yep6803 1) That's bullshit! It's just a personal preference and you know it so stop saying crap. Alos, how the fact that having your OS been copied and used to create another OS (with your examples been a trashy OS and a console OS) years ago make your OS better now? That's the stupidest thing I've heard in my life! In general, the "BSD license" crap is very idiotic. For me, GPL is SUPERIOR. So it's just a preference in the end.
2) I don't know about stability (even tho they do have this fame as they are a total OS that is developed form the same team) but Linux is not famous for been the best kernel and FreeBSD is? What are you smoking? It is literally said that Linux is the best and most used kernel in the world. I never said ANYONE saying that FreeBSD has the best kernel. Do you live in your own world? Also, GNU-Linux has nothing to do with the Linux kernel itself. It describes a set of tools that make a full operating system. Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
3) FreeBSD is famous for been the BEST server OS because of its TCP speed (if I'm not wrong). Nobody talked about security. Actually, OpenBSD is famous for been the most secure operating system so the most secure server should run OpenBSD and not FreeBSD. And I have also heard that Linux can be as secure as OpenBSD if you modify the kernel and harden it.
Also, keep in mind that when we use the word "famous", then this is just a suggestion! When you say that FreeBSD has 3 pros, then you imply that this is not a suggestion but something that is true. But, you don't have any facts that show that.
@@godnyx117 i don'tunderstand your hate 'slightly better' is not "linux sucks or bsd sucks".
it's a fact that the comunity is dying and it is horrible when it is happening.
it is a fact that industries is copying freebsd.
is a fact that linux got the fame to be unstable(kernel not a gnu linux distro).
@@Yep6803 > i don'tunderstand your hate 'slightly better' is not "linux sucks or bsd sucks".
I'm not sure I understand what you're meaning with that but it seems to me that you're saying that you don't understand my hate and that you wanted to say which one is "slightly better" and not which one sucks. In this case, first of all, I'm not hating! To be honest, the first statement about this licenses made my a little bit angry because I'm seeing it from time to time and it pisses me when someone introduces something that is a personal preference as an advantage. Other than that, I'm cool! This is just how I write. And I don't have any intention to make you or anyone else feel bad. We can all freely say our opinion and no one should deprive that from anyone.
> it's a fact that the comunity is dying and it is horrible when it is happening.
No, it is not! Which community is dying? Linux's or FreeBSD's? I see both of them getting bigger and bigger! Where do you get this info?
> it is a fact that industries is copying freebsd.
When you're saying "copying FreeBSD", do you mean using FreeBSD as their OS (like Netflix) or forking FreeBSD and creating an OS (like Sony)? In any case however, I'm asking again, how does this make FreeBSD better than Linux? If you are implying that this makes FreeBSD better because they choose FreeBSD to fork, then you are wrong! They choose FreeBSD because, they couldn't fork Linux and make it close source. Of course, this could also not be true. Some of them may have used FreeBSD even if they could have used Linux. So in the end, nobody knows but in any case, you statement is false
> is a fact that linux got the fame to be unstable(kernel not a gnu linux distro).
Please, read and UNDERSTAND my comment first! Again, "fame" is just a "propose". If you want to turn this "propose" into a fact, then you should do the testing and upload the results. Either that or you need a lot of people to test and report back (even without showing evidence). There are TONS of rumors in the internet so it is really hard to take out the facts. Linux (as a kernel) doesn't have the fame to be unstable. Again, do we live in the same universe? Linux has actually a fame of been very stable! What has a fame to be unstable are GNU/Linux distros that are rolling releases like Arch (btw). And I personally faced only a few issues all these years (which is very weird as every guy I know that tried Linux had problems with it). Again, FreeBSD may be more stable and secure, like I said in my original reply, I don't know about that. My point is that, I want you to understand they difference between a "proposal" and a "fact".
Personally, I'm very excited for DragonFlyBSD and I don't need a lot from my OS so I could some time switch to DragonFlyBSD when it's ready (which will take years of course). So in the end, I'm not a fanboy but I have given almost every BSD (at least the famous ones) a chance and they didn't worked for me so in the end, I'm just talking about my experience. I'm not a Linux fanboy!
@@godnyx117 listen i've got to do, if you don't want to read personal tastes the only way is watching the official documantations...that's video is about personal taste, this comment is about personal taste.
forcing me to not write it is none of your business and you are 1 person in whole the world...so simple i dont care about your vision of life.
dont read internet, people will review using personal taste...it is how people work. you dislike this? your problem, people got the freedom.
btw don't answer to me if it is your standard answer, i don't care about your point of view but i cannot force you to change it so our discussion is just over.
I hat many tries with BSD but it did not supoort my favourite device's Wifi. BUT nontheless I am super pleased by the idea that BSD brings the whole OS from one hand. And I will still definitely give it a try 🙏
While this may sound quite controversial - WiFi is not really an issue IF you are willing to buy hardware that your OS supports. On a desktop PC this shouldn’t be an issue at all because you can cheaply get quite a few cards that are supported. On a Laptop, a $25 external USB stick should do the job - although yeah, it is quite annoying to have that thing stick out.
Most Ethernet cards should also work out of the box, even on laptops - and there are some external devices that you can plug the cable in to get WiFi.
From my personal experience, graphics cards are by far the most troublesome thing.
Not only because those are quite expensive to replace - but also because there are only such limited options - especially if you have very large monitors.
I tried to use BSD, I had a rough time of it. It was a great learning experience.
I tried to use VIM, eMacs, and tiling window managers. I had a rougher time of all of those. It was a great learning experience.
What did I learn with BSD? I learned how to get it running, and I learned just how far the Linux kernel has come over the decades next to its UNIX continuation counterparts.
What did I learn with VIM, eMacs, and tiling WMs? I learned how much pain others will put themselves through for little gain.
I've trialed several scenarios with VIM, eMacs, i3wm, and DWM, and even after forcing myself to learn all of the functionality, the time saved in certain parts of my work always gets offset even further by the time spent fumbling over the basic use of the programs, for things like setting up window layouts and saving my changes.
And yes, there have definitely been several moments where I surprised myself with how fast I did some stuff. Only to be dragged back down again when that saved time got sunk right back in elsewhere.
And so, I stick to my customized Plasma DE, and Nano+kate as my TUI+GUI text editors.
I currently use VSCode for editing cfg files and some light coding even in my Linux environments, after using a Windows EMACS port and VIM for years. GUI elements are nice when done up with the right combination of point and click alongside keyboard combinations. For a while it seemed like they were so concentrated on point and click they forgot how to make quick keyboard shortcuts.
"What did I learn with VIM, eMacs, and tiling WMs? I learned how much pain others will put themselves through for little gain."
This sentence made me laugh so hard. You are spot on except for one thing: I've professionally used both VIM and Emacs. I have coded plugins for VIM and Emacs. They have some incredible concepts that are WAY SUPERIOR to GUI text editors.
The downside of VIM and Emacs is the lack of easy GUI clicks for some actions.
The upside of VIM (not Emacs), is the VIM language. You navigate and edit text WAY faster and MUCH EASIER with the VIM keybindings than any other text editor. You can search for videos about VIM to learn more about it, such as this one:
"Mastering the Vim Language" (video ID = wlR5gYd6um0)
Personally I can't use VIM itself anymore since there are better options now. Sure, you can tweak it to add lots of programming IDE features, but why bother? Instead, I use VSCode with VIM plugin to get the best idea that VIM ever had: Its text editing keybindings and the way you can compose commands using a few easy components.
@@BenderdickCumbersnatch nice to see someone take a similar path to me except I hadn't made plugins for VIM or EMACS, just a mere user. I may have to try the VIM extension as you mentioned.
@@techguydilan There are many videos here on CZcams that demonstrate using VIM extension for VSCode. You can start by checking some of those videos. I can't link any since my prev comment was hidden because of linking a video in an edit, ugh. :)
I’ve gone the opposite direction. I like my hands on my keyboard as much as possible due to wrist injuries, so I use keyboard-driven software. I LOVE KDE, but what made me stop was how long it took to compile. I didn’t like I had to run so much code. So I went back to i3 (usage-wise, KDE remains awesome). I use vim because I’m always in a terminal and nano hasn’t been powerful enough for me, Doom Emacs for code because it’s vim layer is great and easy to configure (I also like that it isn’t constrained to the windows/Mac/Linux triad). I run as much software as I can across any OS. Mainly bc I don’t want my activity constrained to an OS. Which is why I can work from any OS to this day. I run BSD because it challenges me. I get bored easily. But also I love the design, documentation, community, tooling, and ideas from each BSD. I run OpenBSD and manage Linux systems. Also, the push to get a BSD system to work the way I want really helped me with Linux. Getting elbow deep in configs, code, and the need to jump into man pages, faqs, handbooks has helped me to be more self sufficient
Love you !!
hey dt what about making video on abook adress book?
i like the file structure of BSD and find it easier than GNU/Linux in CLI, but I've been using OSX for over 10 years and its very similar and its familiar . That being said though, BSD is a tool that has certain uses. Same with Linux/windows/OSX. They all are just tools. Use whatever works for you.
Also can you link me your matrix screen saver? 🙏🏻
I like BSD because of the sort of intimate feel you get setting up your system and the rewarded feeling you get once you've set it up. I cannot say the same for Linux. BSD also has a thriving community but struggles to run basic applications and if you're making the switch to BSD you should expect to be pretty hands-on with the OS and move to mostly web-based apps.
Come to think of it, it's been several years since I've spun up a BSD system. I should do that sometime...
I am a BSD and Linux operators in my home server environment, while a lot of stuff exists on both, and FreeBSD has a Linux compatibility layer that lets you run Linux software... I would NOT deploy it on a desktop, or a brand spanking new machine with the modern CPU architecture from Intel with the P and E cores as that doesn't work well under BSD.
I will deploy it on a storage server or servers where you want fast response, and a lot of the tools you use to manage and operate them, are both present on both systems, although a bit outdated.
I still say that hardware support (No AC supporting WiFi chipsets last I checked) and updating is the weaknesses of BSD and especially FreeBSD.
On a Linux box it is one command and it takes care of it for you, on FreeBSD you have to account for the kernel and software as separate entities, but you must update the kernel first, otherwise software will break.
When i start my travel in the open Source world i also try BSD and It was hard to install later i try PC-BSD (Sadly PC-BSD turns into TrueOS and die) and love It but i mainly use Linux (Ubuntu) due the drivers compatibility.
I really hope FreeBSD get a better installed and the user base grew up.
@BoulderBro999 why? with the cost of less hardware support (and support in general really)
I read that PC-BSD had very interesting features that weren't in almost any Linux distro of its time, too bad it died.
I think it's nice that we always have an alternative to Linux in case the Linux desktop dies one way or another, It annoys me that almost no one has been paying attention to FreeBSD all this time.
Linux desktop can't die. I mean, it literally can't. For as long as there's interest in keeping open source operating system development going, it's going to stay alive. It's not dependant on any organization. That's the power of open source. The same applies to FreeBSD, of course. If the interest in open source operating systems dies to such an extent that Linux dies, I have very bad news regarding FreeBSD's chances of survival.
@@poudink5791 FreeBSD isn't going anywhere any time soon. It's just far too common of a server OS for that to happen any time soon. What's more because there are so few restrictions on use of the source code, there's little reason for companies to ditch it.
@BoulderBro999 why? OpenBSD has an issue where installing kernel mods is way harder
I tried to switch to FreeBSD several times, the last time just recently. Unfortunately I'm always getting some troubles with drivers, graphics. I will try again with FreeBSD 15, I hope Wayland will be working well. I don't want to use X11 anymore again.
Good video.
I'm using FreeBSD as well as Linux (NixOS, specifically) and I don't feel it's too far behind. Yes, some of the hardware support is wonky. In that aspect, it's a little behind. But on the software side, much of it is up to date with a few exceptions. And the ones that aren't up to date, I'd say it might be by a year or so at the most. (I could be wrong. There might be some package that hasn't been updated in ages on FreeBSD, but it's not anything I'm aware of) But I think it's pretty awesome, regardless.
I would like to get my Stream Deck XL working in FreeBSD though. It works beautifully with Streamdeck-UI on NixOS.
i cant even install any of the bsd systems (and gnu/guix too??) because of my wifi drivers, they are propietary. Very sad i wouldve loved to try them without using vms
I have tried to switch to BSD with full intention to entirely switch from Linux. I have Tried FreeBSD, NETBSD & OpenBSD. The problem overtime is that every system I use, some portion of the hardware isn't supported.
Missing you on support forums. Maybe instead, can you look over problems, that are common, and solve them here? Or could you support your own forums?
Fun fact: PS5 runs on FreeBSD 🎮
It just shows how cool this OS can be if enough devs work on it.
thats a hard TIL
This could be applied pretty much to any other open source OS.
PS4 does too
Mac OS is BSD based.
NetBSF
Wait, you progressed from Vim to Emacs? That's backwards, once you've got the basics of Vi down, there's little reason to switch for text editing.
I'll admit. There's a very special place in my heart for BSD.. In servers. I'll run BSD in servers whenever I can get away with it. Once you find a legitimate use for BSD it's the Ron Popeil of operating systems. Set it and forget it.
I love how graciously he states that we only have very basic computing needs.
perfect example of hardware issues. ive been trying to use freebsd for a year and wifi was broken. the driver for my laptop did not exist. so now they have switched to iwlwifi but its in the beginning stages and while it kind of works now im still having issues with it.
Hey DT, why don't you use a pencil instead of a computer?
Ever since I made the switch to PENCIL 2.0 I just can't go back. I even use a split stylus so I can edit .config files while I erase with the other hand
Pencils are bloat. I use my body for mathematical calculations. I can do 21 X whatever in a "flash" ! hmmm. Wifey said 20.5....damnit
how do you read my mind i was literally searching up reasons not to use freebsd - one day later after you posted this
Did you find any? DT remained a bit vague. Especially with Arch that only has less than 13,000 packages available which pale in comparison to FreeBSD's almost 29,000. You're frequently required to use the AUR and the packaging quality there is... of varying quality to say the very least. Of course, if you need some specific software and that's not available, it doesn't mean anything how much else is available and the system with much less packages can easily be the much better fit for you. But if you don't have very special requirements, both worlds are very likely to suit you. So, specific software issues aside, what did you come up with?
@@kraileth well, i'll wait, i have used artix for a while, might switch in the future, also you got good points.
@@heterodoxagnostic8070 Artix is a great distro with Artoo doing excellent work. I've been briefly in touch with him back in the day when Arch sold its soul and I ran a distribution experiment with a different init. My work was purely educational, though, I suck with Arch for a while and then went to FreeBSD. When I learned of Artix I did play with it of course, but I've never looked back after leaving Linux.
@@kraileth cool, i'll try freebsd sometime
i love linux i have been using it for a couple years now and i also use Bsd i use linux mint for my desktop and free Bsd on a very old laptop and i really like both about even maybe linux a little more but not mush lol!! love your videos man ...
I sense a lot of confusion coming up. Can't say much about BSD since personally, I never used it. However, I might give it a try in a VM once, I'm sure it will be interesting.
As far as the clean file system logic is concerned, I suppose Gentoo is the closest you can get to BSD using Linux. I think portage is also inspired by BSD ports if I remember correctly.
What I do assume is that the dev and user base will be significantly smaller for BSD compared to Linux, which might slow down its progress as a desktop OS.
However, BSD and Linux exist in their own right, and both being FOSS and Unix-like OS, their share plenty of similarity. There should be no rivalry and no competition between the two. Ultimately, I believe this »flex on us« meme is pretty worn out.
Haiku seems to need more development resources though, now that you mention it. It could be a highly interesting thing to come.
I definitely recommend that people use a VM where possible whenever they're wanting to try a new OS. I don't personally get what the issues are with the *BSD filesystem logic, there's an entire man page set up covering the layout of the filesystem. (hier for those interested)
Personally, I find the Linux filesystem to be slightly more confusing as there's an additional /opt root that seems to be used inconsistently by various programs. It's not a significant issue, I go back and forth pretty often with Linux running on my Raspberry Pis and in an emulator most of the time. But, really most of the folks claiming Linux superiority are making mountains out of mole hills and greatly exaggerating the differences. Both sets of OSes work just fine for typical users, but anybody claiming that Linux is just better is full of it. There are a few things that Linux is better at, but they tend to be more specific niches.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade By the BSD filesystem logic, I referred to the folder structure, yes. However, I didn't point it out as an issue, but as an advantage, since Linux tends to spread files all over the place. The BSDs have a reputation of handling this much more consistently.
I tried BSD. Wouldn't install on my hardware. Had I been 20 years younger I'd keep trying to fiddle around with it, but I'm losing daylight here- lol.
whaa?? you don’t want to spend several workdays figuring out an entire new system and workflow?
What you are saying is super reasonable and I have similar approach. I've used Slackware, Arch, OpenBSD for a long time, but it was too much of a tradeoff. BSDs are slowly getting there, but will always be behind, due to insufficient resources. Don't get me wrong - I love BSDs still, but I use Arch and Arch-like distros these days, because I actually have a work to do. Well, I lied a bit - I work with RHEL for a living, but that's a whole different story.
tell me you know nothing about operating systems without telling me you know nothing about operating systems
When PC-BSD or DesktopBSD were out I used those and liked them better then Linux. It is a shame both are no longer here.
Or NomadBSD.
I work much with obsolete UNIX operating systems, and BSD are the closest to them I can run at home. Linux usually confuses me as things are different in different distrubutions, and some commands I take for granted from a POSIX-environment are missing. I miss some things in BSD aswell... like the pg pager. But for desktop, nah... neither BSD nor Linux for me.
I know few awesome examples of running the BSD OS as a server solution. Apart from that I doubt it'll ever become a widely used desktop OS because the core team don't seem to have this as their goal.
@BoulderBro999 why? I think it was FreeBSD
I think you're right. Even myself being a Free/OpenBSD user I don't care for any BSD to get wider desktop adoption. Rather, I wouldn't mind it being BETTER just for the sake of it being better. Not with a goal of everyone using it, the way a lot of the Linux realm thinks. And it's not a bad thought either, there's just different goals
Imo it's better that BSD aims towards something different. I mean, what do we need 2 "same" projects for?
@@vetrixfx9264 FreeBSD is the only open source BSD that aims to be general purpose, while the others target professionals, hobbyists, and other niches, so FreeBSD is the only one that could become usable on the desktop according to this, FreeBSD has several advantages over Linux in that it's more unified, integrated, and has more consistency in it's development, since it's centralized, so it makes sense that someone would want it on desktop, It's always good to have more choices/alternatives, and this is more true than ever with the Linux distro wars.
Why would they have that goal? Apart from the default install not giving you a GUI without you installing it, I'm not really sure what else would need to be done to make that happen. And there are OSes that are basically just FreeBSD with that last bit done for you. (Not that it's that hard once you get the hang of it and you can always learn that part in a VM without having to be without a computer while configuring it)
BSD has its use. You can modify and sell it without going to be restricted by license issues.
Yes!
It's _actual_ free software, not the GPL hippie b.s.
I use TrueNAS and absolutely adore it. However, like a tea, it's not everyone's taste. I recommend try it. Personally I love it. But I know others will think different. I have a friend who decided to go with Linux, and I do whatever I can to support him with the knowledge I gained. Because in the end it's all the same to me. I use Linux for desktop and BSD for servers.
OBSD 7.3 review?
I have a lot of fun checking out different OS with hardware installs, so I just dualboot whatever OS I'm exploring alongside windows. If anticheat werent a thing for gaming I'd probably just run a just works linux distro like my personal favorite popOS. So its double edged. I find myself more willing to experiment with different foss operating systems at the cost of having a non foss OS on my computer
For firewalls it’s pretty nice though
Most of high skilled sysadmins i chat with will agree with you, because everyone says BSD is more secure than linux
But it s right that hardware is not as good as linux
pf is great
@@botnet3201 both pf and opn are great
We always lost something when change from one OS to another, but compile every piece of software is worthy?
Years ago I try Solaris, great Os, how did I compile my GIS software there?
In time I learned that it was possible, but time consuming. You learn a lot, but spend valuable time.
Now I compile some software, (Grass Gis), and add some repos Qgis, Saga, etc; and use another from distro (Spyder, rcran, etc).
Linux is a better solution for me.