@@SL-ev8jv They have a higher dispersion value but greater range. If you scale the max range back to what the Bayern is, it's actually slightly better. I know that I can pretty reliably hit targets in the Gneisenau and Bismarck whereas the Bayern was mostly just frustrating unless you were under 12km.
@@robbyyant6213 Actually, they all have pretty much the same accuracy. The dispersion formula is the same for all of them, and all have 1.8 sigma. Difference in shell arcs might mean a slight difference it the actual hit rate, but it's barely noticeable. Also, for anyone saying that Bayern is inaccurate, hear this: New Mexico has the same dispersion formula because German BB's got the American (or more like "common", because many lines have it) formula a while back, but NM has 1.5 sigma. So it for example is way less accurate. Bayern is actually the third most accurate T6 tech tree BB, after Izmail and Queen Elizabeth. So you hated Bayern for superstition, the thought of it being inaccurate. Not for any actual reason.
jes, zat is true... we are always drunk when we are at sea... no but really, in the pirate era, the pirates were always drunk, because if you are drunk you will quite possibly get angrier, have less fear, will attack harder, take damage lesser, and will care less about the mission itself you will only focus on your own success
Hadn't played for 550+ days and been recently watching some of your grind vids, inspired me to pick up where I left off - actually completed my Bayern last week and got to love the boat. Also completed my Monarch grind too, more fun than I remember - thanks for the tips and BB shooting guides
Thanks for this video. I've been grinding the German BB line as my first and been playing the Bayern for a few games now. You've addressed a few of the issues I've been experiencing. I hope you will run the rest of the line and do the other nations as well.
thanks again for taking the time to not only discuss how to do this but also explaining WHY... knowing the why behind your actions really helps (me) understand what you're doing
I've noticed playing Bayern.. you have a MASSIVE target on your back like players will go out of their way even under fire to take you out. It also seems quite east for players to just NAIL the Bayerns citadel at will. It looks tough but the slow bullet time and how weak the ships citadel is makes this ship a totally crushing experience to play as
I enjoy the videos where you combine the commentary + the live game play. You're the one that does that as far as I can tell. The German BBs are my favorite line. I specially love my GK and my Pommern. I am dreading the commander rework.
I never had a problem playing against carriers as long as there was only one on each team. I didn't like it, but I could adjust. Two per team changes the whole match and it's just a frustrating snooze fest since everyone that goes off on their own dies and everyone else forms a death bubble.
I've been playing this game for 5 years and have loads of high tiers, I only have fun now with 4,5 and 6 tier ships. I most play them now. Can't stand CVs.
I'm thinking Bayern is going to be a sleeper secondary build after the skill rework. Right now, Tier 6 and below BB's only get a 15% dispersion buff from Manual Secondarys - but if I'm understanding the rework correctly, ALL tiers will be getting a 35% dispersion buff from ManSec - which means Tier 6 and below will get their dispersion buff more than doubled, from 15% to 35%. There's some mid and low tier BB's, both tech tree and premium, that could become quite decent with a secondary build.
Kinda sad im gonna have to walk away from wows again after coming back due to the state of the game - im still learning and i feel like fodder when playing at t6 and getting uptiered to t8s and carriers for people with 2k games played. Add the commander rework when i finally started to grasp the commander skills after the last rework.
I always thought that >50% gun accuracy was the target to aim for. But after seeing one of the best BB players in the game with an accuracy of 35% (23:08), I'll be comfortable aiming for a lower ball park from now on. Useful video, I picked up a lot besides the advice specific to the ship.
I think a lot of the reason CVs are such a ballache is because AA mounts get destroyed by HE spam or even HE bombs from planes themselves are just gone, for the rest of the game gone. But those planes you killed in exchange regenerate endlessly until your dead to unhealable damage
The average stats and gameplay of CV players though is still average or below average at least on the EU sever compared to other classes. CV are not doing more damage than BB or cruisers especially at 4-8 tiers. I personally dont see CV as a problem unless its a double CV games which i think should always be capped to 1 (maybe except t4 just because its when people try them out). Maybe because hes one of the best CV players in the world he is going to be doing amazing in them whereas the average player isnt?
Two comments: 1) Do we even have a metric that measures if a class is balanced? 2) Is "are CVs OP" the right question? Or is the right question: Are CVs improving the experience of the players in general? To elaborate: 1) So do the obvious numbers represent the information we're looking for? I'd argue: No. What number covers me not pushing because having a CV in the game eliminates the option to go dark and retreat? What number covers the capability to apply damage where needed? What number covers forced broadsides due to CVs? Whar number covers knowing where the less stealthy enemy ships are shortly after the game begins? 2): Do we have to care since classes are matched between teams? Isn't it more important, if CVs in their current state improve the fun people are overall having with the game? While I believe CVs to have a disproportional influence on the result of the match, I do not care much about that at high tiers - still having fun and still able to feel useful. At lower and mid Tiers, let's say T3 to t7, CVs definitely have the power to take away the fun from me playing those ships - a lot of ships simply lack any counterplay that stops CVs from doing whatever they want to do to them - and you get more double CV games. I'm convinced that WG needs to do some rebalancing for those Tiers.
@@Sotha42 1.) In a one CV per game you have the chance to go dark, usually there's multiple dds and CV cannot cover the whole map at once. That's part of the tactics associated with CV, if they attack you and you give full broadside to another ship and that ship takes advantage of that, i would argue that's a good use of teamwork which this game is all about. The less stealthy ships will be spotted eventually by dds or when they open fire so I don't think that contributes much to the game. 2.) See i disagree. I enjoy CVs been in the game, i love shooting down planes and watching the sky light up with AA. The amount of times i have in tier 4-8 managed to sneak up on cv and torp them as they have no counter to destroy me once i get to them. Does the enjoyment of CV players not count? Many people struggle to play CV hence the average damage been low and just from what new CV players tell me. I personally dont agree with double CV games however double CV games at tier 4 is well just accounting for the fact that there is many more players who try out CV who find out that they are not OP what youtubers claim them to be. - Btw i dont find CV stop me from pushing, its more HE spam or dds that hold me back from pushing, never has a CV stopped me from pushing. More commonly i find CV players being under skilled, i managed to kill a cv who was trying for at least 6 minutes at the end of the match where i managed to sail 20km to him and kill him. FYI i was in the atago and he was in the Lexington, just by simply dodging and weaving plus AA. - I feel most frustration is not from new players is not about CVs tbh, more just from youtubers and people that play a lot in tier 10. Only CV i see as OP is the FDR and possibly to some extent the MVR.
@@Sotha42 They have the same impact a dd player would have, it comes down to skill and teamwork. How many CV players out there play for the team? I would say there's way more that just care about their own damage than say spotting or providing fighters ect. There's videos out there of amazing CV players not being able to carry there team to victory and still lost pretty heavily.
@@kieran3507 1) You're avoiding the point: Looking at performance numbers that do not properly include Teamwork does not give you a useful estimate of the strength of a class with very strong teamwork capabilities. That's not an argument for less teamwork capabilites - that's just pointing out a flaw in your argument regarding their stats. 2) "The amount of times i have in tier 4-8 managed to sneak up on cv and torp them as they have no counter to destroy me once i get to them. " Yes. CVs do require skill and especially destroyers have the capabilty to do something about that in lower tier matches where teamwork often fails. " Does the enjoyment of CV players not count? " Well, if their enjoyment costs the enjoyment of others, there's obviously something wrong in the game design. Low Tier means significant amount of players who don't know what they are doing - resulting balancing high skill gap ships like CVs being pretty impossible to balance. ideal would be a way to make low Tier CVs easier while nerfing their skill ceiling. Reducing the difference in AA capabilities of Low Tier ships would also make a good balance easier (BB stock hulls with shitty AA and manouverability in double CV games is a horrible experience as soon as a CV knows which targets to pick). "double CV games at tier 4 is well just accounting for the fact that there is many more players who try out CV who find out that they are not OP what youtubers claim them to be. " Don't confuse your personal opinion with a fact.
@@Sotha42 Not really a flaw in my argument, that just extending the debate into whether CV are OP or not and how they impact the game. My points about stats is still relevant as it relates to the individual power of CVs in the hands of an average player. - True, the team working there is poor but so is the use of CVs. Most CV at lower tiers do not focus dds or have huge impacts on the game, they are more of an annoyance but not really game changing impact. - I don't really agree with double CV game play however at lower tier (which i don't play much anymore admittedly) as i remember tier 4 CVs were really lack luster and not really enjoyable to play, very slow and minimal damage however i believe that's because most BBs at that tier have minimal to 0 AA. But due to lots of people wanting to try CVs, they have to try and minimise wait time for matches so pros and cons to both. - your last comment well it is fact there are way more CVs at lower tiers (4) hence why you have double CV games while at tier 8-10 its only 1 CV 99% of the time. Some youtuber do claim that CVs are OP, so that fact. Is it fact that CVs are OP? i think that topic is still up for debate. As this game develops and changes there will always be people stuck in the past and want it remain bbs,dds and cruisers, people will moan when submarines are introduced claiming they are OP and that they will ruin the game balance ect ect but i believe that WG do a pretty good job at balance overall in this game hence why I still play it and majority of the time it comes down to the lack of understanding and lack of adapting to new playstyles in my opinion.
I MISS when CV's were the main problem for BB's. Fucking subs. I remember when war-gaming swore NO SUB's. I am stuck in a sunk cost fallacy now. Six years and maybe a few thousand bucks in this game ONLY to have sub's ruin it.
When I first got it, I hated it. Then I started playing more and started getting better at the game and this ship is amazing. I could consistently hold my own when got uptiered to T8 matches. Now I'm on Bismarck and loving her as well and can't wait for the GK.
I think, tier for tier, Bayern is one of the best battleships in the game. it uptiers very well. You can overmatch T7 ships. Sure, you cant overmatch T8s, but T8s cant overmatch other T8s either. Sure, a T8 can overmatch you, but you have an icebreaker bow. With the commander rework I think it will be even stronger since it'll get a buff to secondary range, and unlike the T7 and higher ships, if you take manual control for secondaries, you aren't losing anything compared to how the skill is now. Bayern is a keeper for me, and is one of my therapy ships when High Tiers have me on tilt.
Trying to getting used to Battleship. I recently got the Bayern but still strugling with the shots. Specially long shots because of dispersion. Sometimes it can be really annoying.
Funny...when I'm bottom-tier in anything, I find I get to be focused immediately. Usually because they have better range than me (I can't shoot back yet), and I'm an easy kill compared to top-tier. I admit to doing the same thing....get guns out of the fight, even if they aren't as dangerous. Carriers will flock to the low-tier squishies. Edit: Just started Konig....only played a few games with it. Not a fan so far, hoping I do enjoy Bayern more.
I was very good in Bayern. I totally sucked in Gneisenau, and I am struggling in Bismarck. And it's not the matchmaking because I am fine in the IJN line (in Izumo now). Full disclosure: my Bismarck captain is 16 points and fully built for secondaries. I also have Odin (and soon Pommern). Anyway. I loved Bayern (still actually). Oh and it's pronounced 'baa' (as in baa baa black sheep) 'yern.'
Getting constant up tiered dual CV games on Asian servers, it's painful. I got focused by two CV's in an Atlanta, couldn't do a thing. My defensive AA was useless. German BB's are very enjoyable. Love the brawling when there are no CV's.
Thanks for this upload and discussion. As rough as things are given the meta, the Bayern is pretty solid. Old School is not necessarily the best school, but Bayern and Warspite show the better aspects of the originals from tier VI. Still fun, but ....
Fun ship with decent performance however you use it. I don't get up tiered too much or run into too many carriers personally. Plus it's solid for all the operations, brawl, etc. A keeper, like Gneisenau. t6-7 are the best tiers to play, too. High tiers are campfests
Thanx for video and some good tactics tips. Strange, I face troubles playing Bayern but with Gneisenau I become much more efficient. As for future videos I like those where you explain tactics. Actually for me this game is all about tactics and some luck of course😉
At last, someone who knows their shit says that Bayern is very good for its tier! I've tried to convince may people that it is, but it's accused of being slow, inaccurate, low range, and whatnot, when in reality it's at least average in most of those categories, and it has probably the best armor in the tier. To me it's the best T6 tech tree BB I've played. Edit: Damn, everybody check out the battle chat at 15:09, someone's panicking :D I can imagine how they try to accelerate and turn but nothing happens, and they are really just yelling "waaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaa!"
One of the few flaws with Bayern is that outside of overmatch, the shells have pretty poor air drag resulting is a pretty hefty loss of pen over range compared to other same tier battleships. Even the 14" guns of Fuso and New Mex and Izmail have better pen performance at most ranges.
Also one of the bad things is Bayern has the lightest 15 inch shells like New Mexico almost beats it she has 1600lbs shells super light that’s one of the reasons why but mutsu even though they are pre ww2 they still weight 2200 lbs which helps
Is there a world in where taking Manual Fire is better than AFT for german BBs FIRST? (Obviously taking both after a while when going for the whole secondary "meme" spec) Or is AFT just always better? Asking cus of the german BBs do seem less accurate on their secondaries compared to US, but I don't know if I'm just imagining things or what.
I got the opposite impression. It is sluggish, the guns cannot hit anything and you are killed by tier 6 planes. My win rate dropped from 75 percent in the Kaiser to 50 percent in the König adn finally to 33 persent in the Bayern. I left the German line of Battleships right here. LOL. Good luck with yours.
@@baerchen1650 Izmail only has 356 mm guns - but they shoot straight, and she has strong AA. She even travels 28,5 knots! I'm glad that you like her; but I prefer Izmail.
I watched this video multiple times now, trying to follow all the tips, but I lost like 30 games in a row with the Bayern... I'm completly confused and frustrated. My Average XP is 600 in a game, and this will take forever. Anyone else with this experience? I just started with this game and its my first Tek Line, but its brutal.
The secondary skills are getting nerfed. Dispersion buff is getting reduced, even though range is getting increased. So sure, you can hit things further away, but you'll be hitting things much less often. Unless WG buffs the built in secondary dispersion to at least USN [Massa, Georgia, Ohio] levels of accuracy, it won't be worth running a secondary build.
Hello PQ, I've been binge watching your videos and I've watched every video up to your videos 3 months ago, so just a bit of constructive criticism: Can you please reduce the "Uh" and "Umm"s? I feel like it would make the voiceover a bit better. Thanks for your BB videos I've improved my WR because of you, and bought Massa because of you too! Cheers!
I hated the Bayern but really enjoyed the rest of the line (especially Bismarck and FDG - as GK I feel like Im to big of a target for everyone to shoot at).
@@jackhides3086 pretty much any cv at tier 4 i think the american are op overall especially fdr and enterprise. The German CVs are very very strong, when played by an experienced player
@@davidzimmermann6362 T4 have recently been nerfed so not really anymore. German CVs to have been nerfed and their dive bombers are no where near as accurate. FDR and Enterprise, yes there OP however luckily not common you seen them. Also any ship is good when is played by an experienced player.
Yes was thinking the same, then they added one more line to grind from Colorado! I went back and put Propulsion Mod on her and now she is just nimble enough to get in trouble fast and get some exp and get out. I should have put the PM on NM too.
As a CV player, I think lower tier CVs are broken, higher tiers not so much. But I do agree that grinding is a pain when you're facing carriers in ships that aren't fast nor have good AA.
Bro how the hell are you hitting citadels with this ship. I haven't been able to hit a single citadel with this ship in all of my matches. This ships aim is just so so damn shitt that i just can't help but rage.
PQ, I don't agree with Bayern being a good indicator for the rest of the line. Bismarck is a far better indicator for how high tiers play. Bayern and Gneis are lucky enough to overmatch their peers and in Bayerns case the tier above, which IMO helps make both great BBs, some of the best at both tiers. Bis-GK is a completely different story in my view. But nice vid anyways. I'd still get the range and engine upgrade but completely understand why you didn't.
OFF SUBJECT. I live in Australia and our times don't match up with yours. Could you please record your Twitch sessions and leave them on site so we can watch them later. Today (3 dec.) your stream started for me at 6am (4 dec) and when I logged in at 9am you had already left. ALL the best. :-) Ps. Keep up the great stuff!...Now to watch this vid.
We get... 300 player's on Asia2 server... out off which we have 70 to 50 on average CV player 15 to 20 dds... 150 to 170 bbs and .. 50 to 60 cruiser players... if u get two CV in match.. all dds r dead within 5 minutes of the game... not kidding we get 2 cv on tire 8 battles. N I'm telling u it's not fun playing wow any more...
Yeah this is an oversimplification and complete bs, no, not all DDs are dead within 5 minutes. Those that do - 90% of the time it's because they made stupid decisions, same as any other server. A lot of the time (particularly lately) DD population has been high intermittently. Double CV games suck if they coordinate, thankfully that doesn't happen often even on Asia.
@@SappeREffecT I dont agree with double CV games but i see DDs players all the time in CV games that play like there is NO CV. I dont believe CVs are OP at all, i see it as DD players not adapting. I play dd a lot of i survive 90% of battles with CVs in.
@@jackhides3086 agreed. Most of this is a communication issue by WG (including tutorials on how to play) as well as CVs needing spotting changes. I'm not a DD main but I personally actually run into radar issues more than CV issues when I play them, at least with CVs I can control LOS with smoke/terrain; radar doesn't care. But completely understand why DD players have issues with CVs.
@@SappeREffecT yeah i also radar think is more of problem becasue with all the orbiting shells nowadays, it doesnt matter if you are behind an island ships can still fire over it, unless you are basically touching it haha. I think most dd player moan due to its radar and CV combined is just a little to much, its like once CV has finished spotting you and fly's off, the radar cruiser picks it back up giving the dd no time to change or run away :/
@@rkcoon why? why can subs not be in the game? personally im getting bored or just BBs, DDs and cruisers, im glad they are adding subs brings more variety and they are deffo able to be in the game, the test server they did went rather well. They listen to player feedback on bbs not having a counter to subs and they have a controllable ASW plane they can bring in and all ships et warnings now when a sub pings them.
@@jackhides3086 There is no appropriate way to balance subs in game. WG has already demonstrated a complete inability to balance sky cancer; now to ram subcancer in - complete with bullshit guided torpedoes, really braindead move - the game will be utterly unplayable by the base that BUILT this game. WG is as usual kowtowing to idiots.
@@rkcoon ahh yes WG are total idiots when they have created the best naval action game in the market right now that has growing player numbers and sales however mr know it all AlexInYT know all the better. Why don't you put yourself up for CEO or something? Not even worth having a debate with you as you clearly wouldn't have the capacity to reply with a half decent answer other than just pure garbage.
One of the Bayern’s biggest strengths is its 380mm guns which overmatch all
when i play German BBs the gunners always seem to be drunk, i can aim perfectly and the shells will land behind and infront of it
That's actually why I hated the Bayern and got past it as quick as possible. The Gneisenau is much improved.
@@robbyyant6213 Gnei and Bismark have worse dispersion.
@@SL-ev8jv They have a higher dispersion value but greater range. If you scale the max range back to what the Bayern is, it's actually slightly better. I know that I can pretty reliably hit targets in the Gneisenau and Bismarck whereas the Bayern was mostly just frustrating unless you were under 12km.
@@robbyyant6213 Actually, they all have pretty much the same accuracy. The dispersion formula is the same for all of them, and all have 1.8 sigma. Difference in shell arcs might mean a slight difference it the actual hit rate, but it's barely noticeable.
Also, for anyone saying that Bayern is inaccurate, hear this: New Mexico has the same dispersion formula because German BB's got the American (or more like "common", because many lines have it) formula a while back, but NM has 1.5 sigma. So it for example is way less accurate. Bayern is actually the third most accurate T6 tech tree BB, after Izmail and Queen Elizabeth. So you hated Bayern for superstition, the thought of it being inaccurate. Not for any actual reason.
jes, zat is true... we are always drunk when we are at sea... no but really, in the pirate era, the pirates were always drunk, because if you are drunk you will quite possibly get angrier, have less fear, will attack harder, take damage lesser, and will care less about the mission itself you will only focus on your own success
Hadn't played for 550+ days and been recently watching some of your grind vids, inspired me to pick up where I left off - actually completed my Bayern last week and got to love the boat. Also completed my Monarch grind too, more fun than I remember - thanks for the tips and BB shooting guides
The Bayern is one of those ships you really seem to win big or lose big...literally no in between.
Thanks for this video. I've been grinding the German BB line as my first and been playing the Bayern for a few games now. You've addressed a few of the issues I've been experiencing. I hope you will run the rest of the line and do the other nations as well.
PQ as usual another great video! Thank you for being honest about gameplay ship expectations and how to play against carriers.
thanks again for taking the time to not only discuss how to do this but also explaining WHY... knowing the why behind your actions really helps (me) understand what you're doing
I've noticed playing Bayern.. you have a MASSIVE target on your back like players will go out of their way even under fire to take you out. It also seems quite east for players to just NAIL the Bayerns citadel at will. It looks tough but the slow bullet time and how weak the ships citadel is makes this ship a totally crushing experience to play as
My first Kraken and only Kraken, was earned with my first and only game with the Bayern in randoms.
I enjoy the videos where you combine the commentary + the live game play. You're the one that does that as far as I can tell. The German BBs are my favorite line. I specially love my GK and my Pommern. I am dreading the commander rework.
I never had a problem playing against carriers as long as there was only one on each team. I didn't like it, but I could adjust. Two per team changes the whole match and it's just a frustrating snooze fest since everyone that goes off on their own dies and everyone else forms a death bubble.
Lol, "everyone complained about me talking about CVs, so ima do that more..."
Also, love that modesty in the description...
I've been playing this game for 5 years and have loads of high tiers, I only have fun now with 4,5 and 6 tier ships. I most play them now. Can't stand CVs.
I'm thinking Bayern is going to be a sleeper secondary build after the skill rework. Right now, Tier 6 and below BB's only get a 15% dispersion buff from Manual Secondarys - but if I'm understanding the rework correctly, ALL tiers will be getting a 35% dispersion buff from ManSec - which means Tier 6 and below will get their dispersion buff more than doubled, from 15% to 35%. There's some mid and low tier BB's, both tech tree and premium, that could become quite decent with a secondary build.
Kinda sad im gonna have to walk away from wows again after coming back due to the state of the game - im still learning and i feel like fodder when playing at t6 and getting uptiered to t8s and carriers for people with 2k games played. Add the commander rework when i finally started to grasp the commander skills after the last rework.
I always thought that >50% gun accuracy was the target to aim for. But after seeing one of the best BB players in the game with an accuracy of 35% (23:08), I'll be comfortable aiming for a lower ball park from now on. Useful video, I picked up a lot besides the advice specific to the ship.
I think a lot of the reason CVs are such a ballache is because AA mounts get destroyed by HE spam or even HE bombs from planes themselves are just gone, for the rest of the game gone. But those planes you killed in exchange regenerate endlessly until your dead to unhealable damage
The average stats and gameplay of CV players though is still average or below average at least on the EU sever compared to other classes.
CV are not doing more damage than BB or cruisers especially at 4-8 tiers.
I personally dont see CV as a problem unless its a double CV games which i think should always be capped to 1 (maybe except t4 just because its when people try them out).
Maybe because hes one of the best CV players in the world he is going to be doing amazing in them whereas the average player isnt?
Two comments: 1) Do we even have a metric that measures if a class is balanced? 2) Is "are CVs OP" the right question? Or is the right question: Are CVs improving the experience of the players in general?
To elaborate:
1) So do the obvious numbers represent the information we're looking for? I'd argue: No. What number covers me not pushing because having a CV in the game eliminates the option to go dark and retreat? What number covers the capability to apply damage where needed? What number covers forced broadsides due to CVs? Whar number covers knowing where the less stealthy enemy ships are shortly after the game begins?
2): Do we have to care since classes are matched between teams? Isn't it more important, if CVs in their current state improve the fun people are overall having with the game? While I believe CVs to have a disproportional influence on the result of the match, I do not care much about that at high tiers - still having fun and still able to feel useful. At lower and mid Tiers, let's say T3 to t7, CVs definitely have the power to take away the fun from me playing those ships - a lot of ships simply lack any counterplay that stops CVs from doing whatever they want to do to them - and you get more double CV games. I'm convinced that WG needs to do some rebalancing for those Tiers.
@@Sotha42
1.) In a one CV per game you have the chance to go dark, usually there's multiple dds and CV cannot cover the whole map at once. That's part of the tactics associated with CV, if they attack you and you give full broadside to another ship and that ship takes advantage of that, i would argue that's a good use of teamwork which this game is all about. The less stealthy ships will be spotted eventually by dds or when they open fire so I don't think that contributes much to the game.
2.) See i disagree. I enjoy CVs been in the game, i love shooting down planes and watching the sky light up with AA. The amount of times i have in tier 4-8 managed to sneak up on cv and torp them as they have no counter to destroy me once i get to them. Does the enjoyment of CV players not count? Many people struggle to play CV hence the average damage been low and just from what new CV players tell me. I personally dont agree with double CV games however double CV games at tier 4 is well just accounting for the fact that there is many more players who try out CV who find out that they are not OP what youtubers claim them to be.
- Btw i dont find CV stop me from pushing, its more HE spam or dds that hold me back from pushing, never has a CV stopped me from pushing. More commonly i find CV players being under skilled, i managed to kill a cv who was trying for at least 6 minutes at the end of the match where i managed to sail 20km to him and kill him. FYI i was in the atago and he was in the Lexington, just by simply dodging and weaving plus AA.
- I feel most frustration is not from new players is not about CVs tbh, more just from youtubers and people that play a lot in tier 10. Only CV i see as OP is the FDR and possibly to some extent the MVR.
@@Sotha42 They have the same impact a dd player would have, it comes down to skill and teamwork. How many CV players out there play for the team? I would say there's way more that just care about their own damage than say spotting or providing fighters ect.
There's videos out there of amazing CV players not being able to carry there team to victory and still lost pretty heavily.
@@kieran3507 1) You're avoiding the point: Looking at performance numbers that do not properly include Teamwork does not give you a useful estimate of the strength of a class with very strong teamwork capabilities. That's not an argument for less teamwork capabilites - that's just pointing out a flaw in your argument regarding their stats.
2) "The amount of times i have in tier 4-8 managed to sneak up on cv and torp them as they have no counter to destroy me once i get to them. " Yes. CVs do require skill and especially destroyers have the capabilty to do something about that in lower tier matches where teamwork often fails.
" Does the enjoyment of CV players not count? " Well, if their enjoyment costs the enjoyment of others, there's obviously something wrong in the game design.
Low Tier means significant amount of players who don't know what they are doing - resulting balancing high skill gap ships like CVs being pretty impossible to balance. ideal would be a way to make low Tier CVs easier while nerfing their skill ceiling. Reducing the difference in AA capabilities of Low Tier ships would also make a good balance easier (BB stock hulls with shitty AA and manouverability in double CV games is a horrible experience as soon as a CV knows which targets to pick).
"double CV games at tier 4 is well just accounting for the fact that there is many more players who try out CV who find out that they are not OP what youtubers claim them to be. "
Don't confuse your personal opinion with a fact.
@@Sotha42 Not really a flaw in my argument, that just extending the debate into whether CV are OP or not and how they impact the game. My points about stats is still relevant as it relates to the individual power of CVs in the hands of an average player.
- True, the team working there is poor but so is the use of CVs. Most CV at lower tiers do not focus dds or have huge impacts on the game, they are more of an annoyance but not really game changing impact.
- I don't really agree with double CV game play however at lower tier (which i don't play much anymore admittedly) as i remember tier 4 CVs were really lack luster and not really enjoyable to play, very slow and minimal damage however i believe that's because most BBs at that tier have minimal to 0 AA. But due to lots of people wanting to try CVs, they have to try and minimise wait time for matches so pros and cons to both.
- your last comment well it is fact there are way more CVs at lower tiers (4) hence why you have double CV games while at tier 8-10 its only 1 CV 99% of the time. Some youtuber do claim that CVs are OP, so that fact. Is it fact that CVs are OP? i think that topic is still up for debate.
As this game develops and changes there will always be people stuck in the past and want it remain bbs,dds and cruisers, people will moan when submarines are introduced claiming they are OP and that they will ruin the game balance ect ect but i believe that WG do a pretty good job at balance overall in this game hence why I still play it and majority of the time it comes down to the lack of understanding and lack of adapting to new playstyles in my opinion.
I MISS when CV's were the main problem for BB's. Fucking subs. I remember when war-gaming swore NO SUB's. I am stuck in a sunk cost fallacy now. Six years and maybe a few thousand bucks in this game ONLY to have sub's ruin it.
When I first got it, I hated it. Then I started playing more and started getting better at the game and this ship is amazing. I could consistently hold my own when got uptiered to T8 matches. Now I'm on Bismarck and loving her as well and can't wait for the GK.
I hope we will get a How to grind about the new us bb split line :D
I think, tier for tier, Bayern is one of the best battleships in the game. it uptiers very well. You can overmatch T7 ships. Sure, you cant overmatch T8s, but T8s cant overmatch other T8s either. Sure, a T8 can overmatch you, but you have an icebreaker bow. With the commander rework I think it will be even stronger since it'll get a buff to secondary range, and unlike the T7 and higher ships, if you take manual control for secondaries, you aren't losing anything compared to how the skill is now.
Bayern is a keeper for me, and is one of my therapy ships when High Tiers have me on tilt.
I really enjoyed the line through Bismark, then it trailed off for me. GK dispersion hates me.
Trying to getting used to Battleship. I recently got the Bayern but still strugling with the shots. Specially long shots because of dispersion. Sometimes it can be really annoying.
CVs are the reason I am not starting any other line. Low tiers are disgusting with 2 CVs per side every time.
but kind of every ship would take a massive amount of damage when being hit by like 8 torps
Great vid PQ. Could you make a video about how you get your flags, camos etc. Basically how to get them fast? Thx. Worf.
Funny...when I'm bottom-tier in anything, I find I get to be focused immediately. Usually because they have better range than me (I can't shoot back yet), and I'm an easy kill compared to top-tier. I admit to doing the same thing....get guns out of the fight, even if they aren't as dangerous. Carriers will flock to the low-tier squishies.
Edit: Just started Konig....only played a few games with it. Not a fan so far, hoping I do enjoy Bayern more.
I was very good in Bayern. I totally sucked in Gneisenau, and I am struggling in Bismarck.
And it's not the matchmaking because I am fine in the IJN line (in Izumo now). Full disclosure: my Bismarck captain is 16 points and fully built for secondaries. I also have Odin (and soon Pommern).
Anyway. I loved Bayern (still actually). Oh and it's pronounced 'baa' (as in baa baa black sheep) 'yern.'
Getting constant up tiered dual CV games on Asian servers, it's painful. I got focused by two CV's in an Atlanta, couldn't do a thing. My defensive AA was useless.
German BB's are very enjoyable. Love the brawling when there are no CV's.
Thanks for this upload and discussion. As rough as things are given the meta, the Bayern is pretty solid. Old School is not necessarily the best school, but Bayern and Warspite show the better aspects of the originals from tier VI. Still fun, but ....
Yes, knowing when to quit also applies to the entire game itself, as I recently admitted to myself.
Fun ship with decent performance however you use it. I don't get up tiered too much or run into too many carriers personally. Plus it's solid for all the operations, brawl, etc. A keeper, like Gneisenau. t6-7 are the best tiers to play, too. High tiers are campfests
Thanx for video and some good tactics tips. Strange, I face troubles playing Bayern but with Gneisenau I become much more efficient.
As for future videos I like those where you explain tactics. Actually for me this game is all about tactics and some luck of course😉
At last, someone who knows their shit says that Bayern is very good for its tier! I've tried to convince may people that it is, but it's accused of being slow, inaccurate, low range, and whatnot, when in reality it's at least average in most of those categories, and it has probably the best armor in the tier. To me it's the best T6 tech tree BB I've played.
Edit: Damn, everybody check out the battle chat at 15:09, someone's panicking :D
I can imagine how they try to accelerate and turn but nothing happens, and they are really just yelling "waaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaa!"
One of the few flaws with Bayern is that outside of overmatch, the shells have pretty poor air drag resulting is a pretty hefty loss of pen over range compared to other same tier battleships. Even the 14" guns of Fuso and New Mex and Izmail have better pen performance at most ranges.
Mutsu has the 3rd worst shell drag in the game and still beats Bayern mutsu gets the pre ww2 shells to
@@jacobstallcup8648 Yup, but Mutsu's guns are bigger though. Same problem as what plagues Bayern of course
Also one of the bad things is Bayern has the lightest 15 inch shells like New Mexico almost beats it she has 1600lbs shells super light that’s one of the reasons why but mutsu even though they are pre ww2 they still weight 2200 lbs which helps
Is there a world in where taking Manual Fire is better than AFT for german BBs FIRST? (Obviously taking both after a while when going for the whole secondary "meme" spec) Or is AFT just always better? Asking cus of the german BBs do seem less accurate on their secondaries compared to US, but I don't know if I'm just imagining things or what.
Carriers are OP. If the Fun Police focus you down, or in two-cv games, the sky is full of planes, and the AA on most ship is underwhelming.
hey Potato Quality can you make a video on how to aim using scout plane coz i suck!!thks
So you don't like CVs nor do I.So what do you think about Submarines comming into the game.
I really enjoyed Bayern when I initially grinder the line.. even before the disp buff I felt it was a strong ship for its tier.
Yep her caliber is pretty strong
I got the opposite impression. It is sluggish, the guns cannot hit anything and you are killed by tier 6 planes. My win rate dropped from 75 percent in the Kaiser to 50 percent in the König adn finally to 33 persent in the Bayern. I left the German line of Battleships right here. LOL. Good luck with yours.
380mm on t6 is no joke
I found her to be rlly strong
@@baerchen1650 Izmail only has 356 mm guns - but they shoot straight, and she has strong AA. She even travels 28,5 knots! I'm glad that you like her; but I prefer Izmail.
I watched this video multiple times now, trying to follow all the tips, but I lost like 30 games in a row with the Bayern... I'm completly confused and frustrated. My Average XP is 600 in a game, and this will take forever. Anyone else with this experience? I just started with this game and its my first Tek Line, but its brutal.
Bombers- turn the side, rockets-hide behind the raccoon (face tank), torpedos bow tank.
How is the Gnasenesu better than the Bayvern?
Do you have any thoughts on how the upcoming commander rework is going to affect German BBs, secondary builds on them specifically ?
The secondary skills are getting nerfed. Dispersion buff is getting reduced, even though range is getting increased. So sure, you can hit things further away, but you'll be hitting things much less often. Unless WG buffs the built in secondary dispersion to at least USN [Massa, Georgia, Ohio] levels of accuracy, it won't be worth running a secondary build.
the Bayern is so painful to play, i hate it and it cant do anything properly
Hello PQ, I've been binge watching your videos and I've watched every video up to your videos 3 months ago, so just a bit of constructive criticism: Can you please reduce the "Uh" and "Umm"s? I feel like it would make the voiceover a bit better. Thanks for your BB videos I've improved my WR because of you, and bought Massa because of you too! Cheers!
What model are you running that gives you bow angles etc??
I hated the Bayern but really enjoyed the rest of the line (especially Bismarck and FDG - as GK I feel like Im to big of a target for everyone to shoot at).
So weird, just had Warlord on my team today
how did you get these islands so nice green?
All the OP CV 's is making warships a boring game. Grinfing a new line is a nightmare and no fun anymore
so which cv is OP?
@@jackhides3086 pretty much any cv at tier 4 i think the american are op overall especially fdr and enterprise. The German CVs are very very strong, when played by an experienced player
@@davidzimmermann6362 T4 have recently been nerfed so not really anymore. German CVs to have been nerfed and their dive bombers are no where near as accurate.
FDR and Enterprise, yes there OP however luckily not common you seen them.
Also any ship is good when is played by an experienced player.
How to grind colorado:just gather enough free xp
I mean.. Y E S
Yes was thinking the same, then they added one more line to grind from Colorado! I went back and put Propulsion Mod on her and now she is just nimble enough to get in trouble fast and get some exp and get out. I should have put the PM on NM too.
Quick German lesson here, "König" pronounce it more like Koeinig, the ö is sharp, and for the "Bayern" try Baeiern , like the german for egg :D
As a CV player, I think lower tier CVs are broken, higher tiers not so much. But I do agree that grinding is a pain when you're facing carriers in ships that aren't fast nor have good AA.
Bro how the hell are you hitting citadels with this ship. I haven't been able to hit a single citadel with this ship in all of my matches. This ships aim is just so so damn shitt that i just can't help but rage.
Kremlin next
PQ, I don't agree with Bayern being a good indicator for the rest of the line. Bismarck is a far better indicator for how high tiers play. Bayern and Gneis are lucky enough to overmatch their peers and in Bayerns case the tier above, which IMO helps make both great BBs, some of the best at both tiers. Bis-GK is a completely different story in my view.
But nice vid anyways. I'd still get the range and engine upgrade but completely understand why you didn't.
Siegfried video pls
OFF SUBJECT. I live in Australia and our times don't match up with yours. Could you please record your Twitch sessions and leave them on site so we can watch them later. Today (3 dec.) your stream started for me at 6am (4 dec) and when I logged in at 9am you had already left. ALL the best. :-) Ps. Keep up the great stuff!...Now to watch this vid.
The most stupid thing about CV:s is that there's no incentive for them to fight eachother. Where are the fighter squadrons?
How come you didn't want to chat with me about your videos in clan battles last week?!?! Lol
How to grind "insert ship name." Play ship until you have enough XP to research the next ship.
Instructions complete.
It’s pronounced Bye ern
Hi
We get... 300 player's on Asia2 server... out off which we have 70 to 50 on average CV player 15 to 20 dds... 150 to 170 bbs and .. 50 to 60 cruiser players... if u get two CV in match.. all dds r dead within 5 minutes of the game... not kidding we get 2 cv on tire 8 battles. N I'm telling u it's not fun playing wow any more...
EU sever completely different story maybe 5-10 CVs 200-400 BB 50-60 Cruisers and around 20-40 dds
Yeah this is an oversimplification and complete bs, no, not all DDs are dead within 5 minutes. Those that do - 90% of the time it's because they made stupid decisions, same as any other server.
A lot of the time (particularly lately) DD population has been high intermittently.
Double CV games suck if they coordinate, thankfully that doesn't happen often even on Asia.
@@SappeREffecT I dont agree with double CV games but i see DDs players all the time in CV games that play like there is NO CV. I dont believe CVs are OP at all, i see it as DD players not adapting. I play dd a lot of i survive 90% of battles with CVs in.
@@jackhides3086 agreed.
Most of this is a communication issue by WG (including tutorials on how to play) as well as CVs needing spotting changes.
I'm not a DD main but I personally actually run into radar issues more than CV issues when I play them, at least with CVs I can control LOS with smoke/terrain; radar doesn't care.
But completely understand why DD players have issues with CVs.
@@SappeREffecT yeah i also radar think is more of problem becasue with all the orbiting shells nowadays, it doesnt matter if you are behind an island ships can still fire over it, unless you are basically touching it haha.
I think most dd player moan due to its radar and CV combined is just a little to much, its like once CV has finished spotting you and fly's off, the radar cruiser picks it back up giving the dd no time to change or run away :/
First, do not try to fight with Tier 8 ships
Here is a tldr om how to grind
Step 1 get free xp and skip the bayern
Sky cancer does, and always has, broken this game. When they put subcancer in, Im done.
so basically you only ever want BBs, cruisers and dds in the game? that will get boring fast
@@jackhides3086 CVs need a massive rebalance, and subs have no business in this 'form' of game.
@@rkcoon why? why can subs not be in the game? personally im getting bored or just BBs, DDs and cruisers, im glad they are adding subs brings more variety and they are deffo able to be in the game, the test server they did went rather well.
They listen to player feedback on bbs not having a counter to subs and they have a controllable ASW plane they can bring in and all ships et warnings now when a sub pings them.
@@jackhides3086 There is no appropriate way to balance subs in game. WG has already demonstrated a complete inability to balance sky cancer; now to ram subcancer in - complete with bullshit guided torpedoes, really braindead move - the game will be utterly unplayable by the base that BUILT this game. WG is as usual kowtowing to idiots.
@@rkcoon ahh yes WG are total idiots when they have created the best naval action game in the market right now that has growing player numbers and sales however mr know it all AlexInYT know all the better.
Why don't you put yourself up for CEO or something?
Not even worth having a debate with you as you clearly wouldn't have the capacity to reply with a half decent answer other than just pure garbage.