Toyota RAV4 eCVT transmission - I was wrong and here's why...
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- čas přidán 20. 02. 2022
- In my recent Toyota RAV4 PHEV review I criticised the eCVT transmission. Quite a few of you said I didn't understand how it worked and that is was a really clever and incredibly efficient drive train.
Well it turns out I was wrong and here's why. After reading up on how it works and also living with the car for longer I now totally understand the eCVT. Let me try and explain...
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Great explanation! Toyota has really perfected the eCVT and reliable transmissions in general. All the misleading biased information about 'CVTs' comes from the lack of execution from other brands *cough* nissan. When you omit the belts and cones and replace those bits with a metal planetary gear set the rules change and Toyota has single handedly brought back the charm of what a true e CVT can be.
HSD is not a CVT.
Those are completely different concepts. Everyone knows that.
I have a Highlander Hybrid and I'm an engineer as well and I had the same exact reaction about how eCVT works when I finally understood it...genius! I watched that exact video you recommended about eCVT multiple times to get my head wrapped around it😅. You have to forget the traditional gear box system to fully understand and appreciate this, it is really brilliant.
The motor deserves credit too. It's the perfect engine and trans combo.
Good on you for properly reviewing an eCVT vehicle. Too many reviewers do not know how it works including one American who claimed the new Prius did not accelerate quickly enough,whilst not looking at the speedo, presumably listening to the engine as you might with a manual box.
In addition to my 500hp Audi Q7, and my motorcycles, I also have a Toyota hybrid. As an owner I must say that the use of the 'eCVT' label, by both Toyota and Ford for their planetary torque-split gearboxes, does them a disservice. Everyone sees the 'CVT' part, but very few understand that the 'e' stands for 'emulated'. It eliminates the direct linkage between engine and road speeds, just like a CVT, but is fundamentally different and shares absolutely nothing in common with the CVTs that so many cringe over. I applaud your taking the time to dig deeper, and learn more about how the system really works, as that lousy 'eCVT' label causes far too many to dismiss it out of hand. The Weber Auto recommendation was a fantastic choice, as he does a great job of demystifying planetary torque-split gearboxes. I'd highly recommend people take a look at Weber Auto's full catalog of videos to learn more about what makes their car work. 👍
How do you compare the resposiveness of the ecvt in comparison to a manual or traditional automatic?
Given that its in power mode for sure
@@FirstLast-tx3yj In 'Power Mode' the response is instantaneous, maximizing the use of the motor-generators.
Exactly
I also watch videos on WeberAuto and it is explained there perfectly...the problem is that people simply refuse to understand the eCVT drive because they have been technically connected to a classic drive with a classic gearbox for decades...but this system works completely differently than a classic combustion engine with automatic gearbox. ...they don't understand it so they refuse it...if you understand this system you start to love it...what amazes me personally about this system is its absolute simplicity...when I technically compare it with DSG it is like the sun and the rainfall...
Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps the most impressive thing about this powertrain is that the electronics control both the engine and the transmission in every detail and the result is not just excellent fuel efficiency but also a very rewarding driving experience with a lot of flexibility left in the drivers control. As well as Weber's excellent explanation of the transmission there is also plenty of material about the highly sophisticated engine design which is itself a hybrid supporting both Atkinson cycle principles and more conventional operation as required. The electronics allow all these variations to operate seamlessly and the driver gets instantaneous response to the accelerator pedal.
I’m 74 years and your video made me smile…..
When I was 18 years I made a cycletour through Holland, the Netherlands. In the province Friesland impetus a young couple with a DAF ( Dafodle) , I believe that this was its name. That car had a CVT and DAF Eindhoven, from the van Doorn family, was the first CVT car in Holland and Europa..
It’s nice to see you so enthusiastic about the choice Toyota made with this car.. I will follow you because I like your style..
Daf advert back in the day, " Forward to go forward, back to to go back" Brilliant system. Similar system on early combine harvesters, to increase or decrease forward speed in very small increments.
Yeah, the variomatics. Went as fast forward as they did backwards. They organised races driving them backwards on Zandvoort. Hilarious stuff.
The original eCVT in the Prius actually won a major Engineering award.
This is why your channel will continue to grow… full credit to you for coming back and re-visiting this car (and drivetrain) with the benefit of hindsight and a few thousand miles of driving 👍 Very few reviewers would ..…. I knew once you looked into it you would appreciate the engineering and efficiency of this drivetrain which most reviewers fail to see. Like you I have grown to be really impressed by the smoothness and brilliant fuel economy of this system but I think it takes more than a quick drive to appreciate it. When you also take into account the long term maintenance cost benefits of no starter motor or alternator, it is a brilliant piece of design and gives you a comfortable family sized SUV with the running costs of a small hatchback, as a daily driver I think it’s hard to beat 😊 (hope you survived the storm intact 👍)
Thanks bud 👍
An excellent simplistic explanation. I recently traded in my beloved 9.5 years old LR Discovery 4, which I owned from new. I purchased a late 2021 registered Toyota Highlander Hybrid (not a PHEV) now discontinued here in the UK and which is, I think, basically a RAV4, albeit with 7 seats. The differences for me were, initially at least, confusing, for a 70 years old retired engineer. When I bought the car I hadn't realised just how radically different it truly is. Very smooth, very quiet in operation, with that high rev surprise. I had to investigate further. From an engineering perspective, what Toyota have achieved is stunning! I think many folk, unless they have an engineering background, or an interest in engineering and how things work, will not appreciate just how revolutionary this design is. Because of my background I am well aware of planetary gearboxes, motors and generators etcetera, but the design and innovation work on this combined concept is nothing short of amazing. I'm still learning about this system, but I now believe that this really has the potential to replace the current mania for pure EVs. It's a shame that many people will only appreciate it from a fuel and emissions saving perspective. I, for one, am now a convert to the hybrid. Thank you.
I’ve been driving Toyota hybrids for the last 16 years including the last 10 months with a RAV4 Prime. It’s good to see you correct your understanding of the hybrid drive system, thank you. One small nitpick, the mg2 alone will only power the car to 84 mph not 124 mph.
I appreciate your humility to acknowledge you didn't know enough in the previous review and instead of being defensive learned something new and shared it with others. Great explanation.
Finally! Congratulations! You understand it now and admit you had it wrong in the first review. So many of your “professional” colleague reviewers still don’t understand it, only because they don’t take the time to really understand it. It just don’t fit their idea/concept how a car should sound and work.
This makes your reviews so much more trustworthy. You have gained a subscriber. Thank you and keep on making these great video’s!
Thanks Roy for the lovely comment and Sun and welcome to the channel 👍
As a former engineer I found this fascinating, very well explained and informative, well done.
👍
I enjoyed your first video on the RAV4 - thank you. I had already driven one but was concerned about the CVT transmission. I read loads about it and this morning took out another for a test drive for 2 hours specifically to come to terms with how it works. Like you, once I 'got it' it wasn't an issue at all - it's just a change of mindset about how the car is working. It really is very clever. Thanks for putting up this second video and for explaining how you have adjusted to it. Full marks for revisiting the CVT issue. I've just ordered a RAV4 as a result of my drives and your clear videos have been a real help. Thanks again.
Evening all , six months ago I bought a GR Yaris and on an impulse bought a hybrid Yaris too , first impression was this gearbox is weird but once you dive it and get used to it it’s actually not that bad and as a bonus the economy was astounding ! so just traded it in for a new Yaris Cross which is actually a lot quieter… thank god !
Oh and six months later still totally blown away by the GR , can’t stop smiling when I drive it !
Mega cars 👍
You are so humble and professional for you to actually say ' I got it wrong'. I have also learnt a bit of details about the 2 types of motors and their functions. I love your videos and looking forward to your next. Thank you.
I owned a Camry Hybrid and loved the drivetrain, because it’s variable you feel no shift points. I also like Toyota’s because I worked as an assembly specialist for them and and retired with 31 years. They make great vehicles and treated me well.
Great video, thanks.
I picked up my new Corolla GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid one month ago. It is the first CVT transmission vehicle that I have used. I quite like the roar you get on acceleration, then the quietness you get when cruising. You can barely detect when the engine cuts in after driving on EV only. My wife loves driving it too, so happy days.
They are great cars 👍
Correction for everyone it’s called a E-CVT.
Thanks for your honesty. CVT transmissions have caused confusion with many people who are confused by the engine revs. It does take some time to get used to the way they operate compared with normal gearboxes. The Toyota system is very clever and could well be the direction we need to go during the transition to full EV.
Thanks again, a great video.
Gerry in Australia.
Thanks Gerry 👍
What does going full ev have to do with this transmission?
@@miltechmoto essentially a CVT will give the driver an experience not achieved in standard gearboxes. It will find peak torque and the car can remain there whilst it accelerates. This is similar to the power delivery by EVs, albeit not so brutal.
In other words a CVT has one effective gear just like an EV.
Yes there are various CVT boxes available and depending on the manufacturer and the software that they have, the may behave differently.
10/10 for the come back video. Thought your last video was a bit harsh.
Watched the weberauto guy myself when I bought my Rav to understand how it worked, his explanation and build video is fantastic.
Why I love this channel is because of your honesty in reviewing cars. Keep up the good work.
👍
Your review was very insightful and clear. I appreciate your candor and honesty. I have watched several videos and yours is one of the top videos for this vehicle. You have a dedicated subscriber. Thanks again!
Good explanation, been driving Toyota hybrids for a while now . Until you know how they work unlike CVTs of old you come to appreciate how good they are and how clever Toyota are bringing this to market and being successful
Yep 👍
Pity all the other reviewers haven’t owned up to not knowing how brilliant the E CvT is, well done sir, I only wish the plug in hybrid was available in Australia, so much for our politicians being seriously concerned about the environment.
Very good, simple explanation.
Only part I would add is that for any planetary gear set if two of the three components move at the same speed it effectively locks the gear set so you get 1 to 1 ratio - so in the rav 4 at 1 to 1 engine ratio MG1 must match the engine speed.
Always love your honesty PP. Also great how the trainer and engineer in you broke that all down! It would take a little getting used to I think.
Thankyou so much for this video. You have used my exact words when I have been complaining to my wife as the passenger regarding my Rav 4 Hybrid, that the revs have been rising with little progress forward. I was convinced that the auto gearbox was effectively slipping but clearly did not understand how these motors work. Things have advanced a lot since the old auto boxes obviously. I now no longer need to pester my Toyota Dealer, convinced there was a problem. My mind is at rest. Thanks again.
Thanks for doing this video as a guy currently looking at a range of suv phev cars your first video review got me worried about this car but after this video it's helped clarify alot of things so won't be taking this car off my shortlist so quickly now!
Toyota's hybrid is a generation ahead of its competitors. I have never heard of someone having problems with Toyota's RAV4 Hybrid e-CVT.
Really ? Maybe read the comments below 🤷♂️
I am glad that you looked deeper into the issue that was troubling you about this great car, and now appreciate the qualities.I suggested that when you first picked up the vehicle that this would be a car that you would consider buying for yourself. Of course that would take away the need to create more really good content for your growing subscribers, so I guess it has to go back.
I have a 2019 Prius Prime, which uses the P-610 e-CVT (the baby brother to the P-710 in the Rav4 Prime in this video). Toyota's HSD transaxles are really good technology, very reliable, and they last a very long time if you just change the oil and coolant at the recommended intervals. They are much simpler internally than a conventional automatic or belt-drive CVT, and there's not much that can go wrong with them within the normal life of a car (250,000 miles). I'm not counting the traction battery, of course - the battery will probably need replacement at 120,000 miles - but the internal components of the transaxle and power inverter/converter are generally good for 250K. And the operating cost for gasoline and home charging on a plug-in Hybrid make them pretty easy on the wallet. PHEV's occupy that middle ground between conventional vehicles and pure battery-electrics, with all the best qualities of both, if not the 240+ mile electric range of a Tesla, Bolt, or Leaf.
As for high-revving: My Prius Prime, in Hybrid mode, cruises at 55 mph with the gas engine running at 1200~1300 rpm, and it's virtually silent. Climbing steep grades on a freeway, say 6% (that's 6 feet of rise per 100 feet, or 3°26' if you like angular measure), at 55 mph, the engine will be running between 2400 and 3200 rpm, depending on state of charge in the battery and how heavily loaded the car is. The computer that's controlling everything will never allow the gas engine to rev past 4,200 rpm, which is the torque peak - revving it any faster will not gain you any faster acceleration. The low torque peak speed is a consequence of the Atkinson cycle; you sacrifice top end power for better fuel economy and efficiency. At engine speeds above 2500 rpm, the engine noise becomes more noticeable, but since the car is only that noisy on steep hills and hard accelerations, and very quiet most of the rest of the time, in my opinion, the Prius and Rav 4 Hybrids and Rav4 Prime are among the smoothest and quietest cars with a gas engine that you can get. Pure EV's are quieter, but can't match the 550+ mile driving range of a Prius or Rav4 Plug-in hybrid. And that's 550 miles year round: summer or winter, rain or snow, hot or cold. Pure EV's often see their driving range cut in half if the temperature falls below 5°C.
To elaborate on the explanation of this Rav4's drivetrain: The planetary gear he refers to is the "Power Split Device" in the heart of the transaxle. The MG1 motor is splined to the central Sun gear. The MG2 motor is splined to the outer ring gear of the PSD and to the differential. The gasoline engine is splined to the planetary gear carrier. The computer that's controlling the powertrain looks at the position of the throttle pedal, the car's speed, and the state of charge in the traction battery, and if the vehicle is in Hybrid mode with the gasoline engine running, it will first decide what RPM is most efficient for the gas engine. It will send fuel to the engine, and electric power to the MG1 motor, is a proportion that causes the engine to deliver the desired amount of power at the proper engine rotation speed that matches the vehicle speed. It does this by causing the MG1 motor to spin faster, or slower, or even in reverse, depending on the speed of the vehicle. Before the availability of small yet powerful computers in the late 1990's, the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive would have been impossible. The computer that accomplishes all of this magic is reading dozens of sensors and making thousands of decisions every second as to how to allocate gasoline to the engine and power flow to the two motors and the traction battery.
It is a great skill to explain the complex in a concise and understandable way, thanks Pete. I’m 2,500 miles into RAV4 PHEV ownership and loving it. You have to drive in a manner that suites the car, there ‘s no point hustling it. When I switch to my Alpine or Caterham then I have to recalibrate quite a bit!
Correct. 3 things Toyota hybrids doesn’t like and best to avoid:
1. Hard acceleration
2. Extreme stopping
3. Constant fast driving
Build for smooth pleasurable everyday drive , efficient and reliable cars. 👍
@@toninocars I drove a mitsubishi outlander once a bit too hard and got a warning on the dash about the battery overheating lol
We are @15600 miles on our R4P and this is the very best auto SUV we have ever owned. It took us about 1500 miles to figure out the trans and the ice setup. We average 3.2 miles per kilowatt hour for a range of 44- 50 miles electric. On lever ground @65-75 mph we have surpassed 42 miles per gal in straight hybrid mode. There are additional driving modes in the “S” mode for a real thrill in very steep hills. S1 thru S4 are under drives for steep hills and S5- S6 are near normal driving. We have owned 23 new cars from Toyota Corollaries to even a Turbo Supura and this thing is faster then all of them. ( turbo Supura was a wheel spinner) . No faults yet.
@@robertnixon1374 hi are you suggesting putting the car in sport mode for steep hills, but does this not increase the revs
thanks
@@kroberts7576 the S mode does increase revs but this also allows better road feel and dynamic braking. Steep hills seem much more controllable in S2-3 at lower speeds especially on twisting steep roads at 25-40 mph.
I test drove a dynamic premier edition today and this explanation has been really helpful. I also have a ‘21 Yaris which replaced a CHR. Now used to the sound of the cvt box. Will order the RAV PHEV tomorrow!
I recently test drove a Lexus UX with a CVT box. I was very wary before the drive but it is perfect for that kind of vehicle. It was a lovely smooth drive and I couldn’t even feel the engine kick in and out. Great in town and busy traffic. Smooth at speed. My wife even ordered one to replace her Mini Cooper S!
Excellent car and excellent choice. You don't realise that on the motorway at 70mph the engine isn't running. Enjoy it when you get it.
Yep u can’t feel it.
Thank you, very good review and expanation. We ordered ours last year and apparently it is nearly here. Back in the eighties we had a DAF 66 estate which was very good in most respects but if driven hard only did 20mpg. My mother had the DAF 55 which suffered a turned belt which meant that one wheel was driven at a higher ratio - nightmare. A new belt sorted it. Your review has given me renewed excitement for when ours arrives.
I have a RAV4 & think its very clever technology and now through your great explanation I know how it works
Good video ped - and it’s important for people to realise how clever these systems are (yet so reliable). Couple of errors I picked up on (only minor). MG2 doesn’t run in reverse to charge (it’s meshed directly to the drive wheels remember), it just drags to regenerate. MG1 doesn’t do re-gen braking, however it can be turned by the ICE to generate electricity. If ICE is generating while your driving, MG2 is driving, whilst ICE / MG1 are generating. You can’t use the ICe to contribute to acceleration if MG1 is generating, as MG1 would have to be turning the sun gear to provide the variable ratio.
Just to add, MG2 swaps polarity, rather than direction, to provide regen and braking, the effect can be varied by the brake pedal, the car is brake by wire. There is no direct connection to the brakes, the computer handles the swap between motors and physical brakes (there is an emergency backup, where it becomes physical).
MG1 also starts the engine as there is no starter, and can provide 'engine braking'. It's not true engine braking, it spins up the ICE without ignition and allows MG2 to provide additional resistance or cope where the hybrid battery is regarded as 'full'. The battery technology will determine the balance there. For NIMH it operates somewhere between 40-80% and that reduces the number of cycles and makes the battery last much longer.
The cars have an electric water pump, no alternator as that's done by the DC to DC convertor. A smaller 12v battery as they have no starter and once running, the main larger battery provides all the current.
The aircon units are electric, so can run without the engine.
There are lots of videos of the technology, it's complex software but physically simpler than a normal car and by that, it's more reliable and more reliable because it's Toyota.
Yes, on reliability. Until I did the digging on eCVT, I always wondered why the hybrid Toyota system seems to be so reliable, when at first glance, they would seem to be more complex. Well they actually are a pretty simple system as compared to an 8-10 sp auto with it all it clutch packs , TC and solenoids.
@@aaronb6390 And just to add a bit more: both MG1 & MG2 are 3 phase variable frequency a.c. motor/alternators with permanent magnets. Nice and simple mechanically, with no nasty contact brushes or anything like that. The Toyota “synergy drive” kit has 3 inverters (for the 3 phases) that work both ways between the high voltage traction battery and the motors, and a couple of dc to dc converters, to cover all the odds and ends that still use 12 V dc etc, including maintaining the conventional 12V battery.
MG2 is sometimes called the traction motor, and as with all traction motors, it can churn out maximum torque at zero speed, and it’s permanently connected to the differential gear - even if one selects “neutral”, which just isolates the circuitry (including any battery charging).
There are no rubber belts used in the Toyota hybrids - no low voltage alternator or any pumps. The ICE uses chain drive for the camshafts. Much of the complexity has been taken over by things like Integrated Gate Bipolar Transistors (IGBT) for power electronics, and associated software. However, the power electronic unit is liquid cooled, with it’s own coolant and so on, physically separate from the engine cooling, so that needs maintenance as per the manual - but it’s easy to glance at the fluid levels every so often.
@@xfirstxlast6502 Correct. The transmission only contains the motor/generators and gears including the sun and planet system so there are no wearing components there at all. This gives the mechanical components extreme reliability. Where I live a lot of the private hire drivers are driving Toyota Auris/Corolla hybrid estates.
I believe in power mode if MG1 rotates in the opposite direction to the engine at the same speed no power goes to the wheels
If MG1 slows down at an rpm lower than the engine the gear ratio starts to decrease numerically and moving power to the wheels
At equal rpm between mg1 and ice you have 1:1 gear ratio
And when MG1 spins the same direction as ICE you will have over drive!
I watched the previous video and now viewed this! This helped me feel better about ordering my RAV4 hybrid. It’s coming soon!
That’s good to hear 👍
Watched this and the in shop breakdown video you recommended and I feel like with both videos, I really understand the basics of the eCVT. Well done!
That’s great to hear 🙏🏻👍
Good evening Ped, I have not experienced e E-CVT as of yet. I currently drive a 2022 Subaru Outback with their Lineartronic CVT and I have to say it is definitely different from what I am use to. Through the years I have had several manuals and everything from a three speed all the way up to eight speed auto’s. The smoothness of the CVT still impresses me. Although is has taken some getting use to. Great video as always! Looking forward to the next video with the Pups and Ms. Ped. Stay safe and healthy.
I had also just watched the full video on the eCVT for the RAV4 last week. It makes you appreciate the amazing thought and design going into it. Most people I would say only care about the figures and stats, so I understand that eCVT opinions are just based on Misty how it feels.
Otherwise, keep up the good work 😎👍.
Super impressed you could talk about something so complex and drive!
👍
Good that.you’ve produced this addendum to your original review and explained how the gearbox works. I’ve owned various automatic cars and found the CVT equipped cars to be the most efficient and smoothest gearboxes.
Excellent video. This is the first time someone has been able to explain to me how an Ecvt works. Thank you very much.
Thank you for the clarification. Very helpful!
We are trying to decide between the HEV and PHEV versions of the Rav4. We we’re leaning towards the HEV simply because we know we won’t always have access to charging, but now we know the car can charge the battery (albeit with a higher fuel consumption) that’s swayed things back in favour of the PHEV - which is more appealing because it has a few more features (such as a HUD).
Brillant explanation Ped, I have 17 plate Rav4 Hybrid and really didn't like the CVT due to the high revving of it, but just didn't understand why? until now from your super clear explanation. I am due to upgrade and wasn't sure which car to get next, you have now just convinced me, it's a plug in Rav4.
Thank you.
Well done for making a follow up video… saying ‘you got it wrong’ but that’s what learning is all about. And now your better informed and so are we. Good job 👍
Indeed 👍
Thanks for the update on eCVT. I was one of those that commented that you should look again at the totally different eCVT. Well done! Even the Honda CRV 1.5T with its cone/ pulley system CVT works well, since the turbo has pretty much max torque at 2k RPM, so it only revs high if you floor it. And at 60-70 MPH highways speeds the engine RPM is around 1800-2200 RPM thanks to the CVT ability to optimize the engine to load.
I think the Jazz ehev has a similar system to this Rav. czcams.com/video/6glpZTRT6qE/video.html
Hi Ped: that's intellectual honesty! Well done and kudos to you! And even though I knew quite a bit about the e-CVT transmission, I have learned something new about the division of labour between the motors. And I am happy to see that you came to like the transmission, since I also like the E-CVT of my Corolla. 👍
Hi pp 😇
Really enjoyed the in depth explanation. 👍
Very clever stuff! 👏
Thank you for the update - very interesting. My comment about my experience in my Mitsubishi ASX still stands. That was a shocking CVT gearbox whereas my Audi A6 CVT was excellent.
Hi Ped, really great video, very honest and well explained. I very much agree that plug in hybrids need more range, I do a 72 mile daily commute daily. So even the more advance Mercedes hybrids are not quite there yet. I would be happy to sacrifice engine size to achieve this, as it would take care of 90% of my journeys. Thanks again.
As one of the chief pedants on your previous RAV4 video, well done on a good explanation!
"It doesn't sound right" is exactly the reason why car enthusiasts don't like hybrids. Despite hybrids actually being very responsive - making great use of the (rather limited) engine power.
👍
Thank you for all the reviews for this car - extremely useful. We have one on order to replace our current 2019 RAV4 Hybrid. You have confirmed our thinking of EV for local journeys. Glad you like it. Happy New Year.
Glad to help!
Hi Peter
Hope all is well my mate,, that was great in-depth video and well explained 👍👍👍👍
Thanks for another great video Pete. I have to say that after owning a Lexus CT200h and a IS300h a few years ago the CVT gearbox put me off buying another one.
For me personally a screaming engine note when accelerating hard and Lexus just don’t go hand in hand, but I suppose it’s good we don’t all have the same tastes.
Keep up the sterling work, best of luck with the channel.
Excellent video, thank you. I have a 2019 RAV4 hybrid Excel and love it. Before that I had a 2017 RAV4 hybrid and Toyota have improved on each gen. I have got used to the higher revs and don't notice it. Toyota are now offering a 10 year warranty providing the car is serviced by themselves each year. The ecvt is near enough bullet proof. I wish I could afford the PHEV but it's a little over my price point. Thank you for your comments.
I can’t have a PHEV so would need the standard petrol hybrid. Is it the same gearbox in both
@@kencatchpole5063 yep same ecvt. Every thing is the same apart from a bigger battery and an upgraded inverter to push more power to mg2 and the rear motor. This gives a 301 hp to the 219 hp of the regular hybrid.
🤔😉 Well Ped! Finally you've understood! I did reply to you that I bought an older Auris, 2015 and I struggled to appreciate this ..."slipping clutch syndrome"! Being an ancient BMC degreed apprentice, I did my research too! I understood then what you've just described and it's still mind blowing 7 years later! In fairness, you did like my comments earlier but I didn't even try to go into detail! So happy that you, too, have finally got the full picture! 👌
Cheers John 👍
Thanks Pedro. A real public service review this time. Educational, informative and entertaining, what more can we ask for. Isn't engineering fantastic. Cheers Champ.
👊
Well done Ped, good to see the learning curve!
👍
Great video, and explanation of how this complex system works Peter. Everyday is a school day! Thanks for sharing 👍
Cheers Shane 👍
You easily earned a subscriber with this video of yours! This RAV4 with the hybrid AWD system is also very capable off the road for what it is. With the capability and efficiency it provides, it makes up for a perfect road trip car no matter the conditions!
Thanks for the sub and welcome ti the channel 👍
Good Video Ped.
Thank you for explaining that!
Having not experienced a car with eCVT transmission I thought as you did in the first video. :)
Thanks for making this follow up! I currently drive the Outlander PHEV and it has that similar hi rev sound. I’m now looking to replace and was unsure if I wanted another ‘high rever’ but having seen your very honest follow up here I have a new appreciation and RAV4 here I come!
Great to hear 👍
I have had two Mitsubishi Outlander PHEVs... currently have a 2019 model. The transmission works in the same way as the RAV4 PHEV, and displays similar properties. However I think the RAV is probably the better vehicle in terms of quality and design, and certainly in terms of power output and EV only range. My Outlander lease comes to an end next year so I'm considering options. The RAV4 is on the list but its a huge increase in price to what I have been paying so I'm not sure its feasible. I might look at the Tucson PHEV, but im also considering extending the lease on the Outlander for another couple of years. If price wasn't an issue I'd go for the RAV4. Great video!
So, fun fact, the XSE PHEV with the premium package (the vehicle you're driving) is the only one in the RAV4 hybrid lineup to actually HAVE a rev gauge + paddle shifters (I have a feeling you weren't aware). It can be found in the heads up display.
How they actually work, because eCVT do have only one continuous gear? Bet like computer or speakers fooling 😂
The Toyota Hybrid Synergy drive is an amazing bit of kit, mixing an internal combustion engine with two electric motors using a planters gear sytem to give a variable ratio transmittion with, I hear, ultimate reliability. As you mentioned, a hybrid that does 100miles then drops back on petrol would suit many people and is a great interim transition to full electric cars in the future. I tried a Mazda MX30 last year and really liked it. It has been slated by many as having too short a range, but if Mazda fit the range extender as promised, I think this car has a lot of potential. Remember the BMW i3 REX.
Wow, glad you’re not just another basic motoring journalist. In the Lexus NX phev which is the same tech as this, the noise isn’t much of an issue as it’s got really good sound dampening.
Just driven 700 miles in a rav4 hybrid ( 1st experience and hopefully the last ). The 2.5 litre engine is extremely rough , the transmission, as you state takes a lot of getting used to, but worst of all, running mostly at around 60-65 mph on M6,M5 and A30/38 I could not achieve 50 mpg. Hard to see the point of all that complexity and extra weight, but enjoyed your monotribe, as always. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for this 👍
Excellent review, and well done for going back to re review.
🙏🏻
Thx for the update Pete ! Still thinking of one of these as my next daily 👍🏻🍻🇨🇦
In the 1970s I owned four DAF cars that were driven by real rubber belts.The Toyota POWER SPLIT ECVT is mechanically the most elegant variable transmission available. No friction clutch or steel belts are needed
I’m just over the 5000 mark on my xse, I never really understood the inner workings until today, I knew already that it wasn’t a conventional CVT but I wasn’t sure if the high Revving nature Was completely normal until I talk to the dealer, but now I fully understand and I love the mpg, Anyway thanks for the time you took to fully explain it
Every day’s a school day, thanks for the info, enjoyed learning about the tech.
Indeed 👍
Your research paid off Peter because that was beautifully explained
Thanks 🙏🏻
You have always been an honest reviewer so no surprises there Peter well done
👍
Great explanation, keep the awesome content coming !!!
Very good explanation on how eCVT works. Also I am a huge Toyota/Lexus fan! Great channel thanks.
Cheers 👍
Late comment but I believe one of the best parts of this Ecvt system is that the MG1electricaly accelerates the engine to optimum power delivery RPM without having to enrichen the mixture. Once the engine is at that speed, it can be kept in Lean mode vs Rich Pwr mode that is normally required. The next is that when low engine pwr is required, the engine runs at 1050 RPM and you can hear the throttle plate open, reducing pumping losses
Good on you for following the advice to go and learn how the hybrid system works with the CVT so that then you might appreciate the simple cleverness of the system and understand why it does what it does. A big thumbs up!
Great lesson on the Atkinson theory/cycle. Been taking notes 📝
Hi, I am reminded of the young people who race around on rev ‘n’ go automatic mopeds / scooters. Their engines and cvt transmissions let the engine spin straight up to optimum engine performance as they accelerate quickly away. I watched a video today of a 70cc rev ‘n’ go scooter in a race on a race track and it absolutely blitzed the other bikes! Like I said, the transmission allows the engine to reach optimum power and torque and literally hold those revs as the little scooter raced away with the engine holding those revs. Your initial thoughts on the hybrid sound brought the scooter analogy to mind. That Rav 4 hybrid will be mine one day! Great work Pedro!
Great explanation, one would hope that the sales rep would explain that to a customer. Keep them coming..
1.) Make a mistake 2.) Admit it 3.) correct it - genius! I hope this idea catches on!
Sir Pete great video and thank you for revisiting this and explaining more in depth how this all works. Was a very informative video!! U rock Sir Pete
Thanks Pal 👊
Great video. I drive an earlier iteration of an ecvt ('13 gs 450h), once you get used to the utter glassy smoothness you'll find every other transmission lacking in refinement. Luckily, being coupled to a 3.5 v6, it never needs to rev quite so highly during normal driving. The moment you step on it the power is there instantly, no kickdown, just straight into the powerband. It's a weird feeling but the speedometer shows that you're accelerating at a decent rate (of course, in comparison to today's 400hp+ EV benchmark it's nothing spectacular).
Great Video Ped. I totally understand about the revving thing. My wife has the hybrid Kona and the thing feels like it changes down a gear going up hills even when going 70 on a motorway the revs pick up and it is so hard to get your head around why it's doing it. Now I get it. Thank you.
My pleasure Iian 👍
I love your sense of humility... I'm subscribing.
Thanks for the sub. Welcome to the channel 👍
Very good video. I feel gearbox enlightened, happy with my choice of a Rav4 which is about to arrive. Thank you 🙂
I’m so pleased I found your channel. I’m about to buy a Suzuki Across which will have exactly the same technology, I was concerned about the ECVT and it nearly put me off choosing the car.
Glad to be of help 👍
i used to have a ford fiesta with cone and band system took some time to get used to but worked very well. enjoying your videos
Great video Ped, I can't wait to get my hybrid now through the motabily scheme. I know it's not the full phev, but I'm still excited. Keep up the great content 👏
Enjoy 👍
Your review throughout the long term loan experience has totally solidified my sincere desire to get the exact model you have been driving.
Candid, insightful and helped me massively thank you.... just need to sort my finances, as can only go down the pre owned route, but a 71 or above plate will be perrfect.
Karl H-W
Glad it was helpful 👍
I appreciate the explanation. I also didn't realise the gearbox was different these days.
This is the second video where the Toyota tech has been explained in detail. (fuel cell). It has really helped me to understand the hybrid drivetrain. Now that I am warming to this car, I need to get a test drive. Thanks for your candour regarding your previous comments Ped. 👍😎
No worries George 👍
Hi Ped, I have now watched the excellent Weber Autos videos about the Toyota Hybrid Drivetrain technologies, and now fully understand how they work. There is a great deal of basic mechanical combined with electrical engineering to produce an electronic continuously variable transmission system. The biggest surprise is that it had been out there for over 20 years! Toyota are the world leaders in eCVT technology.
Ped, those explanations were very intuitive and easy to understand, thanks.
And I agree about pheasants, they are incredibly stupid! There’s a hamlet in the Chilterns literally called Pheasants and I can see why, the area is flooded with them and they seem to live more on the roads than in the bushes and trees
Lovely technical delivery Pete....
Cheers Justin 👍
thanks for the insight of how they work, i was put off by that high reving now i understand why thank you love your videos i think i will get 1 in the near future thanks.
It's very hard to explain something like a ecvt gearbox without a pile of bits in front of you... well done. My Kuga phev does exactly the same but like you said, it's more noticeable because half the time irs running on pure electric. I did a trip back from Littlehampton to West London a few weeks ago with zero range on the battery, yet still got over 63 mpg from the petrol engine. Very happy and no range worries.