Is My PETROF Piano Any GOOD?!
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Sorry that I don't have a sound sample in this video, but you can check out any of the videos on the channel with this piano! (I wasn't able to set up my microphones post-surgery quite yet!)
00:00 Intro
02:04 Who am I?
04:53 PETROF as a Brand Today
07:48 PETROF as a Brand in the Past
08:38 What About My PETROF?
I am a former professional pianist, educator, collaborator, and composer forced into early retirement due to a genetic heart condition which has finally caught up to me!
Now I spend my time researching and recording modern classical piano music that hasn't yet been recorded, and I also enjoy making the best out of "easier" pieces from the canon. I will present showy pieces as my health allows, but my current health and endurance typically limits me to early-advanced literature.
I record for CZcams simply as an excuse to keep learning music until it's polished and presentable, and if people want to listen and watch, then that is icing on the cake! Outside of CZcams, I teach intermediate/advanced adult hobbyists at the piano.
Played on my 1998 PETROF Model IV Chippendale (P-IV-C)
Recorded with the Zoom H2n Handy Recorder in 2ch surround - Hudba
![Rejuvenating the New Harpsichord! [Pt.4] (Sound Sample)(Zuckermann Z-box)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Eu6BU97zfpU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Rejuvenating the New Harpsichord! [Pt.4] (Sound Sample)(Zuckermann Z-box)](/img/tr.png)
I own a 6’4” Petrof lll built in 1996, which has the full Renner action. I am in love with the sound and touch of this piano. Thank you for your video, and I look forward to finding more that you have made.
Hey Sean, hi from Pianoworld! As you know, I have a 1999 Petrof III and I agree, they're great pianos. Looks like we have the same action. I prefer a lighter action and achieved that by removing weight from the hammers. Now I have a smooth and light action. Thanks for the video!
I never heard of Petrof until I clicked on your video to hear what I might be missing. The one thing I learned is that your Petrof is a beautiful looking instrument.
A lot of people haven’t heard of PETROF, yet they are the largest production in Europe by units, hand built to boot, and they used to export almost all of their piano to the USA! (I’m not sure about how their exports are spread out today.)
I have an upright 135cm Petrof from around 1996-98. It has the Renner Action, and it plays well and sounds amazing, so I assume it was made at the beginning of the "good" period.
Absolutely!
Thanks for the info. I knew a little about Petrof just from reading on the Piano World forums and some info from PianoBuyers, which I think they may take data/details from the Piano Book by Larry Fine. But don't quote me on that. I know the Knabe article was from Larry Fine's Piano Book. I was about to buy a Knabe KN-590 (Young Chang make during the PianoDisc ownership of Knabe and Mason & Hamlin) It was from 1998. Had my tech out to evaluate it and he saw no red flags everything looked great, would be a very safe buy for the price, and I liked both the action and tone. A bit bright/sparkly, which could be voiced more mellow, but it had a nice round and warm alto/tenor range. But unfortunately the seller backed out at the absolute last minute (I had the check in hand), deciding not to sell as they couldn't find a replacement they liked for the money they would have had from the sale
A Young Chang Knabe, at least larger KN-590 and KN-610 are "okay" decent enough for a progressing student and some later intermediate to early advanced repertoire. The early Samick made Knabes from the early 2000's are definitely "avoid." But then starting with the 20-teens, after about 2013, Samick changed the Knabe, wanting to rebuild the reputation. So the current generation of Knabes are actually quite decent, probably solidly tier 2. Samick returned to the original Baltimore MD scale lengths, and the final build is done at a factory in Tennessee, as I understand. I wouldn't put them up against the Yamahas or Shigeru Kawai pianos (maybe the K. Kawai makes though). So Samick made Knabes are currently miles better than what they were in the early 2000's up to about 2013 or 2014. But yeah, lost out on that sale, so my hunt has continued.
Currently, I have my childhood Baldwin Hamilton vertical studio piano, but it sat for some time at my grandmother's house in FL while she was in assisted living, so untouched for several years, not tuned. My tech did a nice job getting it back to at least being playable, and it served its purpose for awhile, but at this point the action and lack of dynamics are holding back my technique and progress. So it's time to move to a grand. Especially after lessons on my teacher's M&H Model A, and the rebuilt Steinway Models B and D at the church that my lessons have moved to, and where we have our recitals.
So now, better news is I'm about to see a man about his Petrof IV Chippendale from 2004 (before the rebranding but post quality control mess of the earlier 90's). The seller recently cut the price almost by half, and it's practically a steal now. Really looking forward to trying the piano out, and hopefully it's well maintained and regularly serviced. At first glance from images it looks like it is well cared for, just some minor sun fading on the outer shell from the curtained window.
I'm currently an Intermediate-to-late intermediate older adult student, slowly (or maybe not so slowly) progressing my way toward early advanced repertoire, but not quite there yet. I restarted lessons 2 years ago at a late beginner level, rebuilding sight reading almost from scratch, rebuilding technique and muscle. I had 3 years of lessons as a child, age 8 to 11, and though I have played "keys" most of my adult years, was in a local prog rock/pop band as a keyboardist, currently my drummer's favorite keyboardist to play and jam with (he was a prominent on and off Broadway show drummer in the 60's/70's, toured with The Toys, played with Maynard Ferguson at Berklee). I write, compose and record/mix a wide variety of music. I have a young student I teach composition to during the summer vacation months through my teacher. But I had some issues I needed to work through, and I wanted to return to my roots, rebuilding myself and returning to classical piano. Happy to say that at this point I've worked through most of those issues. Though I have no plans to concertize myself, I might return to performing in public once I feel I've progressed enough to do so. I figure if/when I reach the point where I can perform Chopin's G Minor Ballade, I'll consider myself having "graduated" from taking lessons.
If you're familiar with the Henle scale, grade 5 is my comfort zone with me moving toward playing a couple things at grade 6. Next month's recital I'll be playing Mozart's Fantasie in D Minor K.397 and a nice piano arrangement I found on MuseScore for the Woodcarving Partita from Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Also, if I finish learning it in the next month and have it ready in time, and there's enough time during recital, I might open with Brahms Waltz in D Minor
Also on the local market not too far a drive, is a Steinway Model O that I might go see, but I'm warry as A) it's from 1925, and looking at the images needs action regulated at the very minimum. B) Don't know if it was ever restored or rebuilt, or how well it holds pitch, so lots of questions to ask the seller, and would absolutely want to get my tech out to evaluate.
Over the summer and moving toward Fall recital, I'll be learning Chopin's F Minor Nocturne Op.55 no. 1 and another piece I haven't decided on yet. I'd like to continue with some Brahms, working my way toward the easier A Minor Intermezzo and eventually Rhapsody no. 2 in G Minor. I'm also planning to learn and play some Chopin Mazurkas on my own and/or possibly the Valse Brillante in A Minor, hoping to eventually move on to learning the Polonaise in C minor op. 40 no. 2.
My own story aside, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the Petrof and seeing how it goes with action and voice. If it's really nice, I may not even bother to have my tech look at it until after I've moved it to my home. Of course I'll have quite a few questions for the seller, and depending, might schedule my tech to get it evaluated. But if it's well cared for, I won't have too many reservations.
Hopefully the Petrof Chip works out! Hopefully it has the Renner action, which I think all the Chips did, but the Detoa actions were getting much better by then, too. I’m curious how it has been maintained and how it’s been voiced!
You aren’t missing out on much by not getting the Samick stencils. Yuk.
A 1924 Steinway O would have to have had an immaculate rebuild to be worth anything, of course!
Keep in mind that if you don’t like how a piano sounds, it can be voiced, but it will still find its way back to how it wants to sound. The best way to combat that is to change room decor.
Great story! Thanks for sharing!
@@seancregomusic Just to follow up, but I decided to move forward with the purchase. Unfortunately there isn't time to get my tech scheduled to evaluate, but I did get my hands on the Petrof today. I felt the action was fairly even, a nice medium feeling action across the keys, slightly heavier toward the lower octaves, slightly lighter towards the top couple octaves, so possibly a graded action. But overall a very nice, smooth, responsive feel, and nothing felt amiss from the mechanical side of things. From playing my teacher's M&H Model A, and how the Petrof has a similar feel, my guess is it's Renner action, which fits with the early 2000's Petrof IV's. Pedals worked fine, felt good to use. Inside of the casing looked pretty decently clean, strings were shiny, not too much dust on the harp, maybe a little along the felt and soundboard under the strings. Dampers and damper felt looked good, not too much wiggle on the dampers. The only thing is the piano was a bit out of tune.
From what I understand the sellers were an older couple, possibly with declining health, so they probably left the lid closed most of the time, as it's fairly weighty. The Petrof is being sold because the owners can't fit it in the place they're moving to. House went on the market in February, and they were probably busy with prep and things needing to be done leading up to putting it on the market, so the piano probably hasn't been tuned in at least 6 months, maybe a bit more. But it wasn't horribly out of tune, and I could still get a feel for the character of the piano. Nice present bass, and sparkly highs and good tonality clear up to the highest C.
A lot of private sales comparables put this model and year at roughly $15K give or take depending on year and condition. Dealers seem to sell it for $18K to $22K depending on condition. My interaction is with the realtor, and the house is cleaned out, settlement happens on the 23rd, and he needs the piano gone by the 20th, and he's willing to split up the payment. So I'm paying a chunk in a couple days, scheduling the piano movers, then paying the rest after my birthday on the 20th. $8000 total, not including the mover. It's a steal!
@@bytemixsound yes, $15-22 is the going rate for these, depending on your local market, with $15-18 the most common range, so $8 is a steal, even if it turns out to need work--that is still totally worth it--but I doubt it will need much work, if any.
The action feels lighter as you go up and heavier as you go down because the weight of the hammers change. It's a "Steinway thing" that made its way into PETROF design at the time. My own tech talks about that all the time. Your tech can even-out the feel of the action, though, so that it feels more consistent as you go up or down, but that is totally up to you once you get used to the piano.
The action weight for PETROF typically falls in the "middle" in terms of heavy/light, but there are so many light actions these days that people think that PETROF feels "heavy", when it really isn't heavy in terms of overall spec.
I prefer an action that is more heavy than light (not to be confused with "stiff"), so the medium-ish action on my PETROF fits that bill perfectly!
I can't wait to hear more about your PETROF once you have had a chance to get used to it! You've stumbled upon quite a secret at that price!
Una corda should always hit 2 strings. Its a simple fix - there's a screw on the cheekblock you can use to set the distance.
It's the designs of the piano(s). I work with the best tech in the midwest, and we talk shop all the time. He also used to supervise multiple factories for brands I will not name. It gets pretty deep rather quickly.
Petrof is my favorite piano period!
A Petrof 132 upright is my dream piano. One day… one day…
Their uprights are better than Steinway's, kawai, and Yamaha equivalents, in my opinion, as a professional PTG craftsman, and novice player.
@@beethovensg I totally agree.
Do you know at what serial # the improved quality and use of the Renner action started?
Oh, that is an amazing question. I know 1998 had some ownership and likely (can’t cite right now) revisions, so I tell people the 1998+ era is something you can trust (as long as the individual piano checks out ok; even the best piano in the world can be crap if neglected). Then 2009+ saw even more design improvements. And these days they are insanely expensive high-end instruments. They have significantly different eras like Estonia, for example.
I had to sell my beloved 2001 model IV because my hearing went south. Great piano though I didn't love the action. Actual preferred my cousins.1975 Young Chang which was noticeably lighter.
Ya, some people say that Petrof feels heavier, and mine does, yet my tech measured it and it’s perfectly “average” compared to Steinway and Kawai specs.
What i have heard in other videos it souds like a semi professional piano. I think it sounds better than a lot a steinway recordings ( but i dislike the duplex sound ) Also the finish is stunning.
Great piano, now out of reach…same price as NY Steinway in the U.S. Love Petrof when they are prepped well.
The new ones cost more than NY Steinway now, roughly 100k vs 88k (depending on your market, of course). It’s totally crazy!!! Thankfully, the previous generation (1998-2009) were pretty great, too-one of the best kept secrets of the time!
Surprised about your 1998 price info regarding your model IV of 36K. I purchased my model IV demi Chippendale new in 2003 for 16.5K. I sold mine in 2022 for 9.8K.
Depends where you live. Piano prices are high where I live. Kawai, for example, is extremely inflated and I find it rather upsetting. That being said, my Petrof has the upgraded action and all that stuff. I assume your demi-chippendale would have, also, or perhaps it had the Detoa at the time? 🤷♀️
I believe it had a Renner with some modifications by Petrof. My tuner was impressed with the bass but thought it lacked volume in the upper register. It was adequate for me. I enjoyed your video. Thanks.
all that and you didn't play it for us?
I have dozens of videos with the piano on the channel! I didn’t have my microphones set up to record the piano since my surgery wont let me crawl around to set them up yet.
@@seancregomusic CZcams recommended this video to me and it was the first I've seen from your channel, so I'll look for the others where you play the instrument. Thanks.
@@clhanon31415 my video was recommended? Wow! After all these years, that’s exciting to know!
Ive played good and bad petrofs. The ones with Renner actions are of far better quality.
That's furniture.
It's a tricky balance of instrument vs furniture. It's a difficult balance of player vs the rest of the non-playing family, too. So, when you can find an instrument that is BOTH an instrument AND furniture like my piano, it's a very rare win, so you accept the rare win and hold onto it!
I know a guy who sells Steinways to rich people just as furniture and Fazioli to people who actually play. :)
PetrOf, not PetrÁf! 😆