An Extremely Cynical View of Layton and the New World of Steam
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- čas přidán 2. 12. 2023
- Professor Layton and the New World of Steam is undoubtedly exciting. But what it suggests about the future of the series is less so.
You can read the original essay here: docs.google.com/document/d/1t...
Credits:
All uncredited footage captured by myself.
Relics Treasure footage from Layton's World: • Professor Layton and t...
Unwound Future and Azran Legacy Endings from Slyzer: / @zslyzer
VGChartz on LMJ 3DS Sales: www.vgchartz.com/game/191701/...
Layton Font from fontstruct: fontstruct.com/fontstructions...
PLvsPW OST from Professor Layton OST: • Professor Layton vs. P... - Hry
this video really has me wanting the direction of new world of steam to be "luke comes into his own as a puzzle solver while layton has to reconcile his more selfish traits and accept luke can do this on his own". I know it will never happen, but I think it'd be the best outcome story wise
I hope so. I have a feeling Layton is going to solve the ultimate mystery in the new game like as usual.
I hear your point, but you might be overthinking it. I just want more of what I love from the series, and that’s Layton and Luke going on a crazy adventure solving puzzles and meeting charming characters. NWoS seems to be exactly what I’m looking for!
This video is very well put together, even if I dont necessarily agree with the points made. I personally don't care at all about Katrielle and would much prefer if she was either put to side or retconned completely. I think there are a lot of Layton fans who feel the same way. Sure Azran Legacy was supposed close the series loop, but you can never satiate a Layton fan's thirst for more.
Oh, I don't necessarily think we need to continue with Katrielle or anything. My worry is that NWOS is in some ways eerily similar to the nostalgia black holes that have plagued a lot of modern franchises today (see Star Trek and Star Wars for good examples). I just hope the Layton series doesn't feel obligated to do the same things over and over again until the end of time. But with any luck, in a few years, this video will have aged terribly.
@@AurumAlex64 I agree but don't think it will ever be possible. By that I mean Layton himself is the draw-point to the games. To transition him into a legacy character with a new protagonist is going to be extremely hard because the features that make layton who he is in his own games are too powerful on the player. The only viable character that could potentially do this is Luke because of familiarity and the audience desire to see Luke grow and become the mentor figure. If that means retconning Katrielle, that's fine with me because I own but never really got into that game or anime. Perhaps the megafans will have to take that bullet and see the story retconned.
That being said, I think a better direction for the games is to stop exploring backstory or big character development and treating Layton and Luke as side pieces of another characters' stories. Not sure if you ever watched "Mushishi" but simply it's an anime about a doctor that travels around and cures regular people of illnesses. Ginko, the main character, is why you watch because he is very interesting but he isn't the character that the story revolves around, rather he revolves around others. Similar to that, Layton and Luke could be perspective characters in someone else's major story or trilogy. I think that would satiate both the player wanting to have their familiar avatar, and the story focus and development spotlight to be on differring characters.
Edit: Another note, I feel like Layton is a character to a recent time forgotton too. The world has changed so much since the actual last layton games, the things that made him who he is has never been more important. I think in a socio-political setting, revisiting an old friend who's values and traditions are those of what most of us had in common at those ages is also something to consider. Some have forgotten the meaning of the term gentleman.
Luke remained the same throughout 3 games, and just 1 year after Unwound Future he changed into that?
They should've widened that time gap.
My hope is that they only "say" it's been a year, but act as if it's been a lot longer. Because, yeah, I really think it should've been a wider gap as well.
I agree. They should have a least made it two years after Unwound/Lost Future, but two years would ruin the whole thing with the LMJ anime timeline.
This is such a neat video - really love the point you make about overdoing it with Layton as the protagonist, despite the series largely relying on him being there to perform well. I think part of the reason LMJ failed so much is because it lacked Layton as a playable character while still promising a similar style of game in all the advertising. I've always felt that LMJ was originally intended to be a completely separate puzzle game with no relation to Layton, but Level 5 felt it wouldn't sell as well without the Layton name in the title. I mean, other than a shoehorned-in link to Kat being yet another of Layton's abandoned children, what real links does it have to the rest of the series? The anime even goes to retcon the events of the game, so who knows what's counted as canon now...
It's a tricky situation now as there's a lot of pressure on this game to be something different, while we still kinda need it to be in-tune with the originals to really feel like a "Layton" game. I just hope it doesn't come across as a quick cash-grab like LMJ. . I don't think the new game necessarily needs to explore more of the primary characters' backstories as we've kinda explored them enough. Flora's history is explained pretty much entirely in Curious Village alone, and Emmy gets a fair bit in Azran Legacy. It might be nice to have a few more old series cameos than LMJ did (especially for characters that had a larger impact on the stories, like Chelmey, Clark and Schrader), but I don't think it's 100% necessary to make a good game. Zero chance of Don Paolo, Clive and Descole making an appearance, though I think that's for the best.
With Nintendo retiring the Switch in late 2025, I'm also a little worried that the game is gonna be rushed now to get it out in the first half of next year. We've heard a criminally low amount about it since the initial reveal last year, which made me think they released the title and setup waaaaaaayyy before they should have done. Here's hoping there's a fair bit more going on behind closed doors... and hoping my rambling makes sense!
I would say I'm a little more optimistic about a Layton series without Layton in it. I think people are generally okay with new characters and locales. LMJ's problem was... well a lot. Annoying characters that barely got anything to do, flat mysteries with zero interesting resolutions or time to develop, a pretty stale representation of London as it's main setting, and some pretty awful puzzles. So, to be honest, I'd like to see them take another swing at completely new characters, and assuming the game is pretty good, I think it could be reasonably successful.
As for the development timeline, I suspect you may be right. Just comparing what Level-5 had to show off with Decapolice (ostensibly coming out at the end of this year), it's a night and day difference. That game looks almost complete, while NWOS looks like it's barely past pre-production. But one of the remarkable things about this series has always been how quickly they're somehow able to make these games, so it's probably a bit too early to judge.
I agree with ur interpretation of the Relics Arc ending, and if I may I theorise a bit, considering that Alfendi and Lucy were cameod at the end, I suspect it was to lead up to a new game featureing them + LMJ MCs collaborating and solving a big mystery, with Professor Layton and Luke playing a minor role to advise them occasionally. Kinda like Ace Attorney Dual Destinies.
But since the reception to the LMJ is bad, and the anime didnt get a lot of popularity (not a lot knew the Relics Arc even existed) Level 5 backtracked and decided to play it safe with a new game featuring the OG characters with some fresh new faces in America. Which is a bit of a shame really, bc i would have loved to see Alfendi and Lucy again :(
I think it could work if they do something really interesting/unique with the story. Instead of having a samey plot to the last 6 games, they could take a lot of creative risks and maybe even darken the tone a little bit. I love the professor and Luke as characters, so I’m not against seeing them again. I just don’t want Level-5 to rehash the same stuff over and over. Maybe we could see Luke change and mature as he grows older, which might make the Professor feel sad; in a fatherly way. It would’ve been nice if they aged the characters a few years instead of just 1. But I definitely am not gonna be on board if the English voice cast doesn’t return.
Yeah, I agree with everything you just said. Which is why the 1 year time skip is so aggravating. 1 year just isn't enough time for the characters to have changed all that much. It really feels like it's the series is hedging its bets and banking on the nostalgia of the one game everyone really likes, which is a problem a lot of major franchises are having right now.
You make some really good points here!
My hope is that even if New World of Steam turns out not to be great, at the very least it could drum up enough interest in the franchise to warrant the rerelease of previous games, especially Azran Legacy, which is pretty unattainable to the average person nowadays.
Yeah, the entire prequel trilogy could use some kind of rerelease. It seems like the crossover's getting hard to find now, too.
Ah a remake would be interesting, but remaking the puzzles would require a lot of thought. For the new players, they can of course have the same puzzle sets as the OG games. But there should be another mode for players who have played the originals, where all the puzzles are changed and new. You'd eventually unlock all the puzzles with the puzzle journal anyway. Would be cool.
I hope we don't get another main villain disguised as a friend for the whole game. I never liked that. it feels like a waste of characterisation for both the villain and disguised person.
I think it can be done interestingly. I think the difference between it feeling like a waste of time or not is whether the characterization before the reveal actually reflects the character after the reveal. That's one thing I actually really like about Azran Legacy: Sycamore is obviously Descole, but he's not really "acting" the part. Sycamore is just who Descole is normally when he's not cosplaying as a supervillain. So the duration of the game shows us what Descole is really like in his normal life, not just some farce to trick Layton. On the other hand, Descole replacing Angela in Miracle Mask definitely feels like a waste of time, because the only thing it ends up doing is shunting an already underutilized character while offering pretty much nothing in return. So, yeah, it's definitely tricky to get right.
@@AurumAlex64 true. I've been thinking too black and white about it
I'm suprised your video has so little views! It's a pretty great video title, challenging the hype around the new game. It certainly interested me and I very much understood your concerns! Here's to hoping for newfound growth in your channel! :D
Thanks! Yeah, the channel's a little slow growing, but this month's actually been the best I've ever had, so you just got to take it one step at a time
@AurumAlex64 Glad to hear that you've had your best month yet!
commenting for the algorithm because this was very well made! very interesting points with the theme of relics treasure as well, and while im still optimistic, i can definitely see your point. thanks for making this!
Damn, you have great points. You also have a great voice and scripting, I hope your channel grows a lot!
Thanks! I actually recorded this one while sick, so I'm glad my voice didn't sound too bad!
@@AurumAlex64 It's unnoticeable (at least for me). Your analysis of katrielle's anime is very well thought out too, I might steal it lol
I think you're right about a lot of the series being stuck in Unwound Future but I feel like I've maybe reached a different conclusion.
Saying that we shouldn't see Layton and Luke due to their character arcs being finished is sort of missing the forest for the trees imo. Like Holmes and Watson, or Indiana Jones, these two exist to be timeless characters, charming and likeable that you want to see them, but able to take a back seat to allow the spotlight to shine on the elements unique to the adventure.
The first two games followed this formula, but Unwound Future proved to be super captivating by raising the stakes and feeling much more personal. While the plots of Curious Village and Diabolical Box didn't revolve entirely around Layton, Unwound Future kind of did. Some of the future games try to replicate these results but I think it has a similar problem that the BBC Sherlock series does. While it might in theory be more emotional to have the culprit be the detective's brother or childhood friend or father, it sort of betrays the timeless appeal that the characters have as well. You should never be "sick" of Layton or Holmes, they should be characters you could go on countless adventures with and always enjoy the company of.
The negative reaction to Katrielle (even though I personally like her as a character) sort of proves the point. While she may have more potential as a character with a linear narrative, the games don't necessarily have to be about that to be good. Layton and Luke don't have to change if they meet a cast of memorable and interesting characters who do change. While I do agree that the ending to Katrielle's story is a great deconstruction of Layton, I don't think we have to apply all Layton games to this narrative. Much like how we can enjoy a Superman deconstruction but still also enjoy Superman in a different story. There is no singular angle to view Layton from, one does not override the other.
If there is one cynicism I agree with, it feels highly likely we'll get another long-lost figure from Layton/Luke's past to keep chasing the emotional highs, but I still don't think I need that. While my favorites in the series (Last Spectre and Unwound Future) ARE tied to Luke and Layton's characters, its safe to say that a lot of stories, mysteries especially, can sometimes benefit more from a fixed, isolated protagonist. Some of the most memorable cases for Layton, Holmes, Phoenix Wright, Benioit Blanc, whoever lol, are not strictly always ones where the protagonist experiences growth or great change in their lives.
Agree ^
Just finished watching all your PL videos and you’ve earned yourself a new sub! Can’t wait to see what you do next, PL or otherwise! 🎉
Thanks! I hope to eventually cover all the Layton games, but I want to space them out a little!
Also I better see Alfendi Layton I want at least some callback to all the kids Layton has orphaned.
Just found this channel. This is a great video - I left a like and I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I do want to offer a counter-perspective on whether or not New World of Steam was the "right move" at this interval, so to speak. Simply because I think it's an interesting discussion :)
I think you're looking at at this decision extremely literally within the context of the series lore, when the reality is that the impetus is really more of a fourth wall breaking issue. The reality is that most players are attached to their individual franchise protagonists, and when a series has been on hiatus for as long as Layton in this case, most people really do want a sort of vanilla return to form. Regardless of what he represents at this point, Hershel Layton will always be the face of this series, and I have difficulty imagining he'll ever be permanently succeeded by anyone - it's not really kicking the can down the road imo. I genuinely think he was never going to be fully replaced.
On top of this, Katrielle - unfortunately - simply failed to pick up the torch where Hershel left it. This wasn't the fault of the character though, it was simply the fault of the writing. As you touched on, Mystery Journey set up a couple of genuinely interesting through-line mysteries and then just flat out ignored them (similarly to the first Detective Pikachu game, weirdly), which did it no favors. The anime series helped the lore somewhat by actually following through on these (or at least Layton's disappearance - not sure about the talking basset hound), but the reality is that even if we're to take that arc as 100% canon, most fans really never got to see it. We have to assume that only the die-hards actually watched this Japan-only anime tie-in, and the lion's share of Layton game fans only saw the underwhelming story presented in the actual game.
Given all this, I honestly think that New World of Steam was the only logical way to bring the series back from the dead, for better or worse. Additionally, actually continuing the timeline (disregarding the amorphous time gap between Unwound Future and Katrielle) is inherently exciting to most fans, given how much time was spent with prequels. It just allows for more suspense regarding the fates of any characters who haven't yet appeared further down the timeline. Having said all that, I would love to see Katrielle return someday, provided they actually follow through on the larger mysteries set up by the first game. And letting her brother actually have a role this time would be cool too - I find it profoundly strange how divorced Katrielle and Alfendi's adventures are from each other right now.
Yup, I basically agree with everything you said, although I would absolutely be down for a new protagonist for the series (perhaps moreso than other people). Something I wrote in another comment, but I think gets to the heart of the issue, is that the decision to bring back all of the old favorites after the new characters don't work out seems to be a favorite trick of a lot of modern franchises these days (Star Wars, Star Trek are two examples that come immediately to my mind). But what I think has become increasingly obvious is that this turn has been neither healthy for these franchises nor very good; it often seems like these IPs are just regurgitating old storylines and references at us rather than tell good stories.
I just worry that the decision to basically ditch all the new stuff they were trying to do with Katrielle represents a similar kind of step, and the Layton franchise is going to be too scared to do anything novel or interesting again. But again, it's way too early to say this definitively.
@@AurumAlex64 Gotcha. That makes a lot of sense, and when you put it that way, I share your concern haha. I’m a little less bothered by it than you in this particular case (simply because I’m a simple man who just enjoys the Layton/Luke duo lol), but I totally get what you’re saying, and those were both great examples.
In the end, yeah, we’ll just have to wait and see I guess. But I’ll keep my fingers crossed for a return to the future of the Layton-verse! I actually do like Kat despite it all, so I’d personally prefer to see her return, but I certainly wouldn’t scoff at a new lead either :)
ngl, watching this video has given me a new perspective and does make me slightly concerned... best case scenario, our concerns will be for nothing.
It's weird that they immediately moved onto Katrielle as a protagonist when Luke was right there :(
My one bleak hope is that World of Steam's plot twist is that it wraps around to answering questions brought up in Layton's Mystery Journey. Despite Mystery Journey being my favorite game in the series, simply because I enjoy the characters and slice of life aspect, it has many plot holes that even the anime never touched upon. My hope for WOS is that it wraps the confusion up and then perhaps leaves room for more sequel stories, perhaps a Relics Treasure game that rewrites the anime's HORRIBLE attempt at storytelling. (5 episodes out of 50 are plot related? Are you KIDDING me?)
I wouldn't count on it just because NWOS only takes place a year after UF, so this is way before LMJ. My prediction is that the game will probably completely ignore the future of the series. And yeah, the fact that the relics treasure is five episodes strattled across the series probably explains why there's so much exposition: they have to reexplain the previous arc episode because it was so long ago. Kind of a confusing choice.
@@AurumAlex64 Here's the thing, Luke is 15 in the flashback where he meets Katrielle's mother, so maybe that leaves room for a soft rewrite in terms of Katrielle's adoption. OR, and this is an excessive and hopeful reach mind you, we get a glimpse of Alfendi's adoption. He was woefully under-explained in the LMJ game and anime but mentioned nonetheless. I feel as though not explaining his adoption is one of many plot holes the series has suffered from.
Okay, wow, I did not know he was supposed to be 15 in that flashback. That's a lot sooner than I expected, I really thought he was at least in his early 20s by then lol
@@AurumAlex64 Yeah, in that flashback he's only 15! By the time he and the professor leave for the treasure relics case he's about 25 if my memory serves me right. (He was 15 when Kat was born, and they left when she was 10)
So that only leaves about 2 years worth of wiggle room for NWOS to plant seeds for a more coherent Layton family timeline.
So in that case it's definitely possible they could touch on it, but if they do, it'll probably be some obscure reference at the very end of the game like they did with Lucy and Alfendi in LMJ
Why does the Layton need more backstory? The new game could simply be a standalone experience similar to something like Pandora’s box. I also don’t feel the need to draw something like the anime as part of the whole series canon when most people myself included probably haven’t seen it. That’s like saying the Layton Manga is canon… which I really hope it isn’t cause it’s really dumb and bad.
Anyways fantastic video very well put together with some good writing
Thanks! I hope NWOS doesn't give Layton more backstory, but that's not really the direction Level-5 has taken these games. Every single Layton after Unwound Future has followed in its footsteps, focusing on the histories and never-before-seen backstories of it's major characters, whether that be Layton in UF, Luke in LS, Layton in MM, Layton and Emmy in AL, Katrielle in LMJ; but if the series continues to use Layton as its main character, it's going to take considerable restraint from Level-5 not to try to give Layton more retconned backstory at some point down the line.
And as for the anime, the reason I think it's important to consider is because, at least to my knowledge, Akihiro Hino had a hand in the writing and production of the series, so I don't think it will be surprising if some of its ideas start to bleed over elsewhere. In any case, it doesn't really matter to me whether the anime is canon or not, I was just saying the very existence of NWOS seemed a little ironic considering the themes of the anime.
@@AurumAlex64 ok honestly fair point. What I could see maybe is the introduction of katrielles mother and her background maybe. I am very unfamiliar with katrielles game but that could be an intriguing idea to me. I do really like the concept that you said the anime brought up and definitely wanna check out those episodes in particular
A wonderful analysis! (sorry I'm so late to the party)
I'm not gonna lie, I know certain fans would be upset about it, but what if, Level-5, what if you gave some screen time to the side characters that we haven't had the most in-depth exploration of? And by that I mean, What if it gave Emmy and Flora a chance to shine? Sure, people would foo-foo it as feminist fodder, but think about it. We did get growth and a backstory from Emmy, we know where she was heading at the end of Azran Legacy. Her taking on the mantle of Layton and instead guiding Flora, who has been all but abandoned in the first trilogy, might be a good direction. They were never necessarily unlikable, and the two have potential to connect the dots between the old series and a new.
Edit: grammar mistakes
To be honest, I would be fine with just about anything. New characters, old characters, it really doesn't matter to me: I just want the series to find a sustainable angle (which I feel NWOS is not). That's why I'm upset that I didn't like LMJ, because I was otherwise really excited to learn and spend time with an entirely new cast of characters. But I have a suspicion the future of the series will want to keep all that on the backburner. I suppose only time will tell for now.
I don't know that Katriel's thesis is necessarily correct. While it is true that how we solve problems does become far more simple with better means of communication, effectively allowing more people to show a collective level of intellect greater than before, we do still need men like Layton in that world. Men like Layton who are mythical in their base of knowledge and ability to think will only help make that collective even better, especially if they, as the professor very much so is, become teachers. Intellect is made up of more than just having a broad base of knowledge, its also about how one thinks, and that I believe is the charm of Layton, he thinks in a way that is different from most of humanity. If nothing else, it is the men like Layton, Don Paulo, and Descole who leave something behind for the rest of us to learn from. While this may lead to them having an ego, I don't believe that this is necessarily a bad thing nor do I think Layton's selfishness is born out of a desire for glory half as much as his love for puzzles. It would be interesting to see that in New World of Steam though as a point of contention between Layton and Luke
I think there is certainly truth to this, and I like your point about Layton becoming a teacher to essentially share his wealth of knowledge. Though I do still think the show highly suggests Layton is at the very least being selfish by deciding to hunt for the relic treasure; he has a daughter to take care of now, and so galivanting on epic archaeological quests might be a bit more irresponsible than it used to be. Then again, that didn't stop him from taking Luke everywhere.
I think my bigger frustration with NWOS is that I get the sense there won't be a discussion about Layton's role in the world at all, or any debate about Katrielle's thesis. I think the game will basically just ignore the past 7-8 years of the franchise, tumultuous as it has been, and I think that's a shame. But, within any luck, this video will age like milk.
@@AurumAlex64 alright, I just went and watched the movie where Katriel found Layton, because I had not yet seen that. On a slightly less cynical watch, you could also read Layton as not feeling himself to be an adequate father figure if he didn't solve the mystery. Like adopting her without trying to solve that mystery would be morally wrong of him. And while it is irresponsible for him to go solving mysteries on her, I don't think that he thought he'd be in suspended animation for years. I still think that you are correct, in that it would be interesting to see Layton have a character flaw to overcome in the New World of Steam, but I don't think it would be the one seen in this movie. Although it was a pretty good movie. At any rate, It is just nice to talk with a fellow Layton fan about this stuff, glad to see it and have a nice day.
I really wouldn't mind Layton being a timeless Poirot-esque great anime detective. Layton's serious, even serialized storytelling has never been its strength. The atmosphere, individual puzzles (though not always their solution) and art direction were.
I think I would disagree; I've always enjoyed the Layton stories. And if they're gonna keep telling them, I would like them to find a new angle on the material than "Unwound Future... again".
@@AurumAlex64 i feel like there's no way to do that without tampering with the series' DNA. It would either live as a Poirot, static entry after endless entry, or complete his story and cease to be like a William of Baskerville.
@@Klemeron I don't know, I was pretty on board with what LMJ was going for, even if I don't think it succeeded. And that's because out of all the problems LMJ has, the fact that it features entirely new characters and storylines is not one of them. If anything, I think the game would improve if they just cut out all ties to Layton completely; Katrielle can just be her own thing.
In that sense, I think I'm a lot more optimistic about the staying power of the "Layton" series even if Layton himself moves on.
@@AurumAlex64 The problem is, Layton is the commercvial icon of the series. Like Capcom dragged Phoenix back twice, not featuring Layton is not a Layton game anymore, and it won't have the commercial backing of one.
Level5 really put the the layton franchise to an perfect ending. We the fans werent waiting we accaptet the end. I hope level5 knows what the are doing.
Great video by the way devinetly deserve more views
Thanks! All we can do now is wait and see about Layton. I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic.
I wish they continued layton brothers mystery room it was actually good ;/ I know that is saying a lot for mobile but the story was engaging I never know why they didn't continue it.