2 Atonal Fugues
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Something different: 2 fugues without tonality, the themes, especially the first one, are a variation on the fugue subject from the development in Feinberg's third piano sonata.
00:00 Fugue 1
01:14 Fugue 2
Many people have commented and asked on this video, why I used double flats/sharps, and a key signature, despite the pieces being atonal. I've answered it a few times already, but for everyone wanting to ask in the future, or who hasn't seen the other comments, here's a quick summary.
-Intervallic continuity: If a subject has a jump of a certain interval, I always tried to keep it, even if it resulted in a double sharp/flat
-Visual meaning: Music is not purely acoustic, at least not to me. I am fascinated by notation, and it can play a big part in how I perceive a piece. A g double sharp sounds identical to an a, or a b double flat, but it's not the same. This is also the reason for the key signature in the second piece. Of course its not in a key, but its were different, if I had notated it in C/without key. And building of on this:
-It just feels right: When I wrote it, that's just kind of what I thought. When I thought of it as a g double sharp, then I notated just that. Sometimes also with no other particular reason. Atonality can mean many things, and some of them to me are freedom, intuition and possibility of experimentation. And that possibility alone is reason enough to notate it however, if it only feels/looks right to me!
I know this isn't the best argument, but many other (established) composers have also done this regularly. I didn't even know this was such a confusing thing to do, until all these comments. Just check out this sonata by Roslavets: it even uses triple flats!!
czcams.com/video/YH6xT6rmSD4/video.html
Link to the sheet music: musescore.com/user/34360945/scores/11479279
All fair and square, you just left out an important aspect: Readability.
Yes, I know that your composition was not meant to be played by humans in the first place. If, however, one writes music for others to read and play then one should spend much time in trying to find the notation which is easiest to read (while still making sense harmonically). To this purpose, the first bar of your piece would, e.g., probably best have been referred to A minor; then the notes would have been G#-E-C-G(#)-G♮-F#-F♮-D. Of course, you would have to check whether this is still compatible with your harmonic intentions.
I totally get where you’re coming from. The sheet music is just as much of an important part of the artistic process as the actual finalised audio, for me.
@@WilfriedHLingenberg 100% this. At the end of the day, the whole purpose of notation practice is readability. You can bend the rules a little bit to justify a logical continuation that you have, but if it leads to some faulty reading you need to jump ship on the experimentation. I remember doing some similar stuff in my early 20s until I realized that there's little to no practical purpose, and it's just superficial fluff.
Six sharps in an atonal piece is there to make the musician think twice before learning it!
Indeed, if six sharps frighten someone away from an atonal piece then they are probably not ready to play it even if it were written without a key signature.
@@WilfriedHLingenberg I agree very much. These pieces *are* playable (though no longer by my own 68-y.o. fingers!), but to put a six-sharp key signature at the start of an avowedly atonal piece (Fugue 2) seems like cruel and most certainly unusual punishment for the performer. If the "feeling" of a given note being Gx rather than A♮ is really so important, then maybe it would have been a good idea for him to write the pieces in (say) 19- or 31-EDO, in which these really are different notes.
Pretty melodic for atonal. This is where computers really shine. Making something that's very difficult to sight read hearable in a few minutes.
Very true. I tried to play the first one, it was not a fun experience.
When you're trying to find your house keys 5 minutes late for work
😂🤣🤣🤣
Perfect
I tried playing these two piece for my friend to prove that I played piano... They were not convinced.
Nice. I find the fugues vaguely reminiscent in spirit of those in Ludus Tonalis. Well done!
I want to hear more in this style it’s fascinating
check out the fugue at the end of Samuel Barber's piano sonata :3
Sorabji's fugues are more or less this but on every possible drug on the planet
Check out the fugue from Feinberg’s third sonata, and the fugue from Szymanowski’s second and third sonatas.
This is awesome!! So happy to stumble upon this 🔥
first fugue sounds inspired by Feinberg’s fugato in his Piano Sonata 3 last mvt
very good fugues
It is (it’s also in the description)
thanks :)
Ah did not see in description
still coming back to listen to the fugues
Nice work! You've earned yourself a subscriber :) I particularly liked the syncopated bits in the 2nd fugue.
I listened with great interest. Thank you for the good music.
brilliant work
It sounds actually great😊
thank you :)
@@counterpointenthusiast JAZZ FUGUE
@@supasayajinsongoku4464 Eh, no.
Simply amazing. Bartok would love these! So do I! Do you sell your music?
thanks! if you want to access the sheet music, its available free of charge :) there's a link in the pinned comment
Sounds awesome, wow!
Great work!
Very funky. Love it.
Awesome fugues❤ I love it ❤
omg this is amazing!! :D
Really coherent, pretty awesome
Chef's kiss! I'm an instant fan. It's raw and unhinged, I love it
these are great - I have next to no composition experience, but have been considering trying a short atonal piece just to see if I can do it :3
i hope you have fun with it :)
Beautiful
Astonishing!
I have no idea what I'm hearing but I like it
So good!
How interesting! Would be cool to see it arranged for an ensemble of some sort. Wonderful work here!
Thanks! If you plan on doing that, I’d be very interested in hearing it!
You made me bob my head, which is quite an accomplishment I think. Lol. Well done.
Thanks :) so glad youre enjoying my fugues!
This is very neat stuff. A few years ago, for a piano piece I wrote titled Tested Metals I derived a 12-note row from one of Bach's fugue subjects from the Well-Tempered Clavier.
Was it the B minor fugue from book 1?
@@SuonoReale F minor, book 2.
Love it!
Aint no way
@@handavid6421 LOL The atonal stuff of the enthusiast is always very clickable for me, good stuff :DDD
Amazingly well written, loved it
Very intensive music, sounds nice. The notation is very difficult🤔. Splendidly played!
Very cool
Bellissimo ! Bravo ( mi ricorda un poco gli studi di Camargo Guarnieri ) .Grazie from Sicilia .
Bellissime!
Muito bem. Obrigado.
They reminds me of Shostakovich's fugue. Nice piece :-)
The subject of the second one sounds like that of the fugue from Feinberg's 3rd sonata.
Nice!
reminds me of shostakovich's Db major fugue, although that piece did end in an actual key. i think it's the jumpy fugue subject
Same here 😊
Really cool work, thank you for posting this!
Were you intending these to be playable for a pianist? I don't know of anybody with a right hand large enough to play a D4 and C6 (enharmonic equivalent B#) simultaneously at the start of bar 44 of Fugue 1. A similar issues arises in bar 28 in Fugue 2 with the C double-sharp tied from the bar before then going up to an A6. I'm going to assume that these fugues were an exercise in counterpoint more than it was written to be performable.
God bless you and please continue to keep sharing your wonderful work with us. Would love to see what you create in the future.
yes you’re right in your assumption that it’s meant as a contrapuntal exercise. it could be rewritten relatively easily though i think to be playable.
happy that you enjoyed it!
I usually despise atonal music but this is simply amazing!
despise???
@@connorcmusiciansome people have different tastes
Why 6 sharps for a piece without a tonal centre? It gives the impression that you are taking the mickey. I tried the first fugue at half speed, this make it much easier to follow, but also I felt the entries left a hint at a tonal centre (sort of A to D).
is this free atonality or serialist? This is some of the most effective use of the atonal sound I've ever heard, and I've had to trudge through a lot in my Composition Classes XD
its completely free. musically its inspired by feinbergs fugue in his 3rd sonata, which isn't atonal, so there is probably quite a lot of vague tonality floating along.
thanks for the compliment!
Is this inspired by Feinberg? I hear the fugal section of the 3rd sonata in the theme of the first piece
Yes! I also put it in the description. Especially the first subject is inspired by that.
@@counterpointenthusiast ah, didn't see the description. Good stuff!!
thanks!
wow !
Great fuggues, it reminds me Feinberg's 3thsonata fuggue, but it's very diferent and original in it's own way
Very cool. Is there a reason for using key signatures and double sharps/flats if it's atonal?
Thank you! Yes, it's because of the exact repetition of motifs. For example the main motif of the first fugue has a lot of diminished and augmented intervals in relation to the starting note in it (for example the augmented fifth at the beginning (because it thought of it as an augmented chord), augmented second to the 5th quaver, diminished fourth to the eighth quaver, etc.). And then every time the subject returns, I tried to keep it the same note for note, and from that quite a few double sharps and flats resulted. A couple of those could probably have been avoided if I had changed the starting note enharmonically. E.g. in bar 35, where the soprano plays the subject in its inversion, if the starting note were a# instead of b flat, the subsequent e double flat would be a d natural. I didn't spend too much time making these little simplifications for readability, that's probably why there are so many. I hope that helps :)
@@counterpointenthusiast Also, when you transpose a line by dragging and dropping in sequencer software, it does that. 😉
@@counterpointenthusiast Hmm ... Strictly speaking, music can only be _either_ atonal _or_ notated with key signatures or double accidentals. The notion of "diminished" and "augmented" intervals ultimately does not exist in "atonal" music.
continuing that logic a piano would be physically incapable of playing atonal music, because its layout is based on tonal music. but its not. same thing with western notation. some concepts come from tonal music, but can still reasonably be applied to atonal music
@@counterpointenthusiast Strictly speaking, the piano with its well-tempered scale is already incapable of playing tonal music.
no counterpoint rules when you dont have tonality right? /j really cool!
Very nice work, is there somehow, a way to get the score? I’d like to learn it!
Yes, it is available on Musescore :)
If you play it, I'd love to hear it!
musescore.com/user/34360945/scores/11479279
@@counterpointenthusiast thank you! :)
Love
The kind of music that finishes and you say, "What'd you say about my mama!?!"
The 6 sharps in the 2nd one's key signature is just cruel.......
I have no problems with "atonal" (or non-tonal as I prefer) music. I love a lot of Schoenberg and Berg so it doesn't phase me. Actually a lot of film music (especially action/thrillers) includes non-tonal - but people are too busy watching the screen to notice how modern the music is. These were interesting and lively. I preferred the second as there was more rhythmic variety. In the first the answer maybe needs to be more rhythmically differentiated from the subject. I presume the performance was generated rather than live? Or you have a remarkable stretch :)
thank you :) it is indeed a digital playback. i actually tried learning it, but it was an absolute pain to memorize lol
Ok but what is the point of the double flats 😳
Wonderful! A Schnittke influence? This was written first- not an improvisation?
im not familiar with schnittkes work yet, so no! and you're right, it was not first improvised but written with pen and paper :)
@@counterpointenthusiast You may want to start listening to his music. I improvise in a new music " contemporary classical" dissonances and atonality. I would appreciate you following me.
thank you for the recommendation :)
This is a SUPERB FUGUE ! so satisfyingly atonal, and the building releasing of tensions that even Bach would love !
thank you!!
Bach would have called this noise. If he was in a good mood.
@@riverstun Thank goodness there is some sanity out there!
In "Ludus Tonalis" by Hindemith, there are some dicey moments, but the two pieces posted here were not planned out at all. Too many eighth notes in succession and the harmonies resulting from the counterpoint are senseless.
@@riverstun , Unusual for me but on this point I disagree with You Riverstun. I find this melodic, and compelling and meaningful musically , and also very pleasing, even though it is supposedly 'atonal". Meanwhile there are several preludes and fugues, I think by Scriabin, that I find very much to dislike about, especially that the tensions and releases are illogical and non sensible for me. This one is consistently sensible and very satisfying to listen to.
@@Geopholus I suspect you were thinking of Shostakovich. Scriabin didn't write preludes and fugues.
who are you??? its absolutely amazing!!!!
Thanks so much!
Si es atonal por qué poner re doble sostenido, y no directamente mi?
Because I was trying to stay true to the intervals of the themes
I love atonal fugues, both listening to them and composing them, they are just so much fun. You nailed it! It's not that easy to compose something crearly atonal but also very melodic. I only have one doubt: are those unusual accidentals (F flat, E sharp, as also double flats and double sharps) actually necessary? I find them to just make everything harder to read, as well as the key signature in the second fugue. For example, the very first notes of the first fugue: Ab, E, C, Ab, G, Gb, F, D. Isn't it easier to just avoid those accidentals? Maybe it's just an obsession of mine!
Anyway, a very nice job.
Thank you!
Yes, a few people have pointed that out. I've explained it by saying I was thinking in intervals, for example the opening notes of No1 are M3 M3, outlining an augmented triad. Ans subsequently its always M3 M3, no matter the starting note, thus resulting in double sharps and flats (and similarly in other places). Also, it's important for melodic clearness, e.g. you have a g# and a lower changing note, of course, you could write a g natural, but you hear it as an f double# if that makes sense. Lastly, the sheet music itself is part of the piece, having a piece notated in 5 sharps, even though it is atonal, still gives some connotation, that is hard to grasp, but might just feel right to the composer.
I hope this is kind of understandable! Maybe I would edit it if someone were to perform it, to make it more legible, but so far, I just didn't give too much thought to it (like starting on an ab rather than g# to avoid f double #, which would certainly pe possible, and maybe even more sensible. I just didn't.).
@@counterpointenthusiast I'm not sure I get what you mean, or better, I understand it but that's not my view when composing. But that's ok :) It's nice to see what's in the mind of other composers when working on their pieces :)
Pdf?
musescore.com/user/34360945/scores/11479279
Love the Liszt reference in the title.
This was funny 😃
What is this?
2 atonal fugues
Dodecaphonism or is another type of composition style?
it’s just free atonality :)
Hahahaha! These are really fun, with some lavish flourishes and unexpected anomalies. You have an excellent ear for what makes musical sense. You might like my "4 Star Fugue" or some of my other fugues. I like fugues. It is a form that has been neglected too long.
Normally I'm not that much of a fan of atonal music, but that was really great. Maybe I need to reconsider atonal music. Thanks.
@@Whatismusic123 I just listened to it again without watching the "metaphorical jingling keys", and actually enjoyed it more this time. I'm not going to try to tell you why you don't like it, so please have the courtesy to allow me to have my own opinions, and my own reasons for those opinions.
@@Whatismusic123 Whatever. You didn't get the memo either. I'm not interested in your opinion. Go troll somebody else.
@@Whatismusic123 whatever. Have fun trolling.
some moments sounded like if Bach was atonal, am i just tripping or was this intentional
I mean I didn't directly draw inspiration from Bach so you might just be tripping. its rather inspired by feinbergs fugue in his 3d sonata
Schön. Auch gut: The COVID-19 Fugue .
Мне нравится.
Sounds like Shostakovich's Fugue op 87/15. Oh no. that's in D-flat major.
I can see that though! I guess it’s notated in Db, but there’s a good point to be made for it being atonal, oder at least partially so.
Modern Music Universities in a nutshell.
Why is there a double sharp if its atonal 😟😟
Не совсем понятно, зачем в атональной музыке употреблять дубльдиезы и дубльбемоли .
😂👍
Check out Ernst Toch, I think you might like his music :)
Sounds kind of Kapustin fugue
I would've used "sempre staccato" xD
It souds like Prokofiev
Bach would like this.
Sounds like atonal Mario
Death metal fugue :)
Yoshi
Sound’s like Prokofiev
I just made the same comment. Lol
This kind of music was being played when Jesus were crucified.
very interesting but it has a level of dynamic control that no pianist could ever hope to achieve tbh
JAZZ FUGUE JAZZ FUGUE PLEAZWE
better than Bach
I wouldn't say that
Hard to play, Harder to listen to
this is NOT a fugue
Why?
Sounds like a three-year-old child is just randomly hitting the keys 😂
That's atonality for you 👍
Repent and trust in Jesus. We deserve Hell for our sin. Lying, lusting, etc, but God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross and ride from the grave to free us from sin. If you repent and trust in him youll be saved.
Romans 3:23
John 3:16😊
Atonality is my lord and savior
i agree
Amen
@@turtle945 Do you believe in good and evil?
Amen!
You havent a clue what a fugue means. A fugue is a methodology for maximizing texture while retaining coherence. All you have done is make noise. Woo Hoo. You could quadruple the noise and it still would be noise, and only noise.
No
"methodology for maximizing texture while retaining coherence"
This is a meaningless word salad
@@garrysmodsketches It's meaningful word salad. Just opinionated meaningful word salad.
@@TristinBailey "maximizing texture" is a meaningless collocation in this context
i tend to agree that the fugue in particular is a form that enables great contrapuntal and textural complexity due to the amount of independence between several voices. i just don’t get the leap from this realisation to ‚atonal fugue bad‘