I really liked your point about preferences and subjectivity rather than strict standardization of cut test methodologies, but at the same time, providing context about cut tests. Gives insight on not only the knife but also on the user! Great listen!
Roman Landes Heat Treatment recommendation: Now this is what I would recommend for heat treat cpm 3v: 1st preheat: 500-600°C, equalize 2nd preheat:800-900°C, equalize Authenize: 1060-1070°C, equalize, soak 30-35min Quench in Oil preheated 60-80°C Cryo: immediately after cleaning, minimum -80°C or lower soak 30min 1st Temper: 150°C equalize, soak 2hrs, quench in water Cryo: immediately after temper 2nd Temper: 180-200°C equalize, soak 2hrs should give you 60+ and a fine durable grain. RGDS Roman This is why I would do it like this. The "receipt" suitable is for a vacuum furnace (Quench with maximum pressure) or a regular cline, but surface protection has to be assured. Salt bath will cut the soak time approximately by 1/3 and thus give better aust-grain. The preheating steps will assure the the austenization steps can be done quick. Quicker speed >> smaller grain Authenization temperature is dedicated to dissolve Chrome and Molybdenum >> fair hardness and some enhanced "Stainresistance" is to be expected. The vanadium will remain in the steel bond as a compound of carbon, hence aust-grain cant really grow The oil quench is suitable for any steel out of the air hardening classes. The thin cross sections get higher hardness after quench (greater volume fraction of martensite) and a less stabilized volume fraction retained austenite. (The volume fraction of RA can be expected (near guess) between 20 and 30% or even higher) Warping of the blade shall not be an issue with these materials. If you have done a lot of hard mechanical work before hardening (milling, grinding,)then do a stress relief so warping gets less likely. The cryo needs to be done as quick as possible below -80°C. RA tends to stabilize rather quickly after the quench (some reports speak of minutes) The longer you wait, the less efficient the transformation to untempered martensite will be. And a minimum of -70°C is necessary to get enough stress into the micro structure, so the transformation (RA>>Martensite) process can restart again. Extensive soak time is not necessary since the process runs at hypersonic speed. But still there will be remains of RA that need to be addressed by the 2nd cryo. The first temper is a low temper so the remaining RA is stabilized at the lowest level possible and at the same time there is enough stress relief in the martensite that has been built and furthermore the transformation from tetragonal to cubic martensite is started. The water quench speeds the whole thing up and avoids precipitation of embrittling phases. Then the rest of the remaining RA will be attacked by the 2nd cryo (usually the RA will drop below 5% volume fraction) so burr formation is less likely. 2nd temper will now temper the untempered martensite build up by the cryo and bring the blade to a fully tempered martensitic structure with a low volume fraction of RA and a fair amount of carbides undissolved. Of course there is the question why not temper it at 540°C? First of all, if you don't have access to cryo then this is your way to go. In my studies of edge stability I did extensive work to compare secondary hardening and low temper with cryo. The results (reference is my graduate thesis 1999 Munich University of Applied Sciences) I found considerable higher edge stability with the samples that had low temper/cryo The material used at the time was ATS-34 all with the same charge and thus the same condition of austinization, but with different temper cycles. RGDS Roman
But you can see that reducing the RA, you can keep a bur to a minimum. And you can see why he would quench in water after a temper. This helps in different situations to do a rapid cooling quench after temper for certain protocols.
Dude, holy shit. I’ve wanted one of these for years, but they are always sell out instantly. I saw your video went to three Rivers just for shits and giggles. Got a shadow . They still sell on the secondary market for like $320-$380 almost $100 markup 😩 if I ever end up selling mine, I’ll probably sell it for $20 less than what I paid
I like watching cut test videos they are helpful to all of us. The only cut test videos that i think aren't helpful is people that only do one cut test and only on the factory edge. If i judged the knives based off the factory edge id be using a Milwaukee fastback because factory edges are terrible, including knives in the thousand dollar range.
Can you provide examples about how changing the edge bevel has an affect on aesthetics of the knife? I guess you would need a couple of the same model of knife and then have different bevels to provide a visual.
You were getting way too deep. You are getting way too technical Occam‘s razor. Keep it simple stupid it’s all about in general and what you’re talking about. Not doing a 1 inch section is really kind of dumb because when outpost 76 does it he’s just giving you What this blade can do so if you tape off a 1 inch section it’s only that 1 inch section that’s getting used which gives you a better conclusion of what the steel will do now you times that by however long, your blade is and you get a relative idea while this thing is in a cup forever or it’s not gonna cut that long at all You’re getting way too, and the cutest aren’t supposed to be technical. Let’s be honest and they even Gerald will tell you that it’s just what he does. This is what you could generally expect him and Dave super steel. Dave are very close in the results within 5 to 10%, so you’re getting way too deep way too technical and you’re confusing a lot more people that are new to Witcher talking about
he didn't even cut anything :(
Best cut test video that didn't include any cut testing what so ever 👍
great information as always. you videos are always packed with great info to consider and impliment
Thanks Jerad!
I really liked your point about preferences and subjectivity rather than strict standardization of cut test methodologies, but at the same time, providing context about cut tests. Gives insight on not only the knife but also on the user! Great listen!
I am very interested in Long form content about cut testing. Especially at 4:39am central time. This video is for me! Also, get some sleep Brian! 😊
Scrolled down to see this gem of a comment taking the words right outta' my mouth. Thanks. Semper Supra Brother.
- Godspeed
@@milesrost6674 lol
Im thrilled that your posting on CZcams now
Damn man you are very good at articulating your thoughts! Good stuff! Love having you on YT
So many good points that I hadn't really thought about, yet make perfect sense when broken down as you have in this classmThank you
I'm interested in all things Brian Kim wants to share. 👐
Still waiting for the cut sir lol u got me now I have to watch all your videos
Roman Landes Heat Treatment recommendation:
Now this is what I would recommend for heat treat cpm 3v:
1st preheat: 500-600°C, equalize
2nd preheat:800-900°C, equalize
Authenize: 1060-1070°C, equalize, soak 30-35min
Quench in Oil preheated 60-80°C
Cryo: immediately after cleaning, minimum -80°C or lower soak 30min
1st Temper: 150°C equalize, soak 2hrs, quench in water
Cryo: immediately after temper
2nd Temper: 180-200°C equalize, soak 2hrs
should give you 60+ and a fine durable grain. RGDS Roman
This is why I would do it like this.
The "receipt" suitable is for a vacuum furnace (Quench with maximum pressure) or a regular cline, but surface protection has to be assured.
Salt bath will cut the soak time approximately by 1/3 and thus give better aust-grain.
The preheating steps will assure the the austenization steps can be done quick. Quicker speed >> smaller grain
Authenization temperature is dedicated to dissolve Chrome and Molybdenum >> fair hardness and some enhanced "Stainresistance" is to be expected.
The vanadium will remain in the steel bond as a compound of carbon, hence aust-grain cant really grow
The oil quench is suitable for any steel out of the air hardening classes. The thin cross sections get higher hardness after quench (greater volume fraction of martensite) and a less stabilized volume fraction retained austenite. (The volume fraction of RA can be expected (near guess) between 20 and 30% or even higher)
Warping of the blade shall not be an issue with these materials.
If you have done a lot of hard mechanical work before hardening (milling, grinding,)then do a stress relief so warping gets less likely.
The cryo needs to be done as quick as possible below -80°C.
RA tends to stabilize rather quickly after the quench (some reports speak of minutes)
The longer you wait, the less efficient the transformation to untempered martensite will be.
And a minimum of -70°C is necessary to get enough stress into the micro structure, so the transformation (RA>>Martensite) process can restart again.
Extensive soak time is not necessary since the process runs at hypersonic speed.
But still there will be remains of RA that need to be addressed by the 2nd cryo.
The first temper is a low temper so the remaining RA is stabilized at the lowest level possible and at the same time there is enough stress relief in the martensite that has been built and furthermore the transformation from tetragonal to cubic martensite is started.
The water quench speeds the whole thing up and avoids precipitation of embrittling phases.
Then the rest of the remaining RA will be attacked by the 2nd cryo (usually the RA will drop below 5% volume fraction) so burr formation is less likely.
2nd temper will now temper the untempered martensite build up by the cryo and bring the blade to a fully tempered martensitic structure with a low volume fraction of RA and a fair amount of carbides undissolved.
Of course there is the question why not temper it at 540°C?
First of all, if you don't have access to cryo then this is your way to go.
In my studies of edge stability I did extensive work to compare secondary hardening and low temper with cryo.
The results (reference is my graduate thesis 1999 Munich University of Applied Sciences) I found considerable higher edge stability with the samples that had low temper/cryo The material used at the time was ATS-34 all with the same charge and thus the same condition of austinization, but with different temper cycles.
RGDS Roman
I thought you'd like this. Roman Landes likes to give great explanations. Especially when he writes in English. His book is in German sadly.
But you can see that reducing the RA, you can keep a bur to a minimum. And you can see why he would quench in water after a temper. This helps in different situations to do a rapid cooling quench after temper for certain protocols.
Love the Knife nerdery! Keep it up brother!
Lol thank you for telling all about it. I do have a suggestion I would have enjoyed a demonstration
Thanks for the ins n outs. I find ya to be just a tad brilliant. Great clip. Cheers
If it can cut my finger it passes. For me anyways. Good video ❤👍🏻
Dude, holy shit. I’ve wanted one of these for years, but they are always sell out instantly. I saw your video went to three Rivers just for shits and giggles. Got a shadow . They still sell on the secondary market for like $320-$380 almost $100 markup 😩 if I ever end up selling mine, I’ll probably sell it for $20 less than what I paid
Very informative and interesting. Thank you.
I like watching cut test videos they are helpful to all of us. The only cut test videos that i think aren't helpful is people that only do one cut test and only on the factory edge. If i judged the knives based off the factory edge id be using a Milwaukee fastback because factory edges are terrible, including knives in the thousand dollar range.
Can you provide examples about how changing the edge bevel has an affect on aesthetics of the knife? I guess you would need a couple of the same model of knife and then have different bevels to provide a visual.
🎶🎶I hate instagram🎶CZcams is my new best friend🎶🎶
A comment for the algorithmses!
Awesome
I have not watched the whole video, but I have one question: What knife is that?
sheesh... so much info... you really get deep with it... makes complete sense too... interested to see more man!
🤜🔪🤛
This video should have been titled something else.
cut test are dumb
You were getting way too deep. You are getting way too technical Occam‘s razor. Keep it simple stupid it’s all about in general and what you’re talking about. Not doing a 1 inch section is really kind of dumb because when outpost 76 does it he’s just giving you What this blade can do so if you tape off a 1 inch section it’s only that 1 inch section that’s getting used which gives you a better conclusion of what the steel will do now you times that by however long, your blade is and you get a relative idea while this thing is in a cup forever or it’s not gonna cut that long at all You’re getting way too, and the cutest aren’t supposed to be technical. Let’s be honest and they even Gerald will tell you that it’s just what he does. This is what you could generally expect him and Dave super steel. Dave are very close in the results within 5 to 10%, so you’re getting way too deep way too technical and you’re confusing a lot more people that are new to Witcher talking about