Cross-Band Repeater Operation with the Yaesu FTM-400XDR - Ham Radio Q&A
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- You may have seen it in the user manual of your radio‚ in a radio advertisement‚ or talked about in an online forum. I’m talking about cross-band repeating. But what is it- how does it work- and most importantly- how can you use it. I’ll talk about this somewhat misunderstood radio feature- so let dig in.
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Excellent work as always Michael! Keep em’ coming!
I love the feature and can’t live without it I use it during spring summer and fall when I’m out and about walking I carry an ht with me and set my ts2000 to several different repeaters depending on which repeater I feel like setting up when I leave I also use it when I’m home and want to check into a net on a distant repeater and don’t feel like sitting at my radio
Thank you for your clear explanation of cross band repeaters.
Excellent explanation of cross-band repeating! Thanks!
I love the simplicity of your explanations. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. 73 K9PAL
You are simply brilliant Michael! Have learnt a lot from you. Keep up the great work flowing.
73s
Thanks for all your videos Michael. I learn a ton from you.
Thanks for the overview on cross band repeating!
Great video! Very informative and helpful. Thanks for all of your dedication to the craft and please keep up the great work!
This video answered all my questions! Thanks Mike!
Before my buddy had a base station there was a particular spot in his yard where he had to park his truck so that we could have simplex communications. The cross band feature of his TYT-8900 radio made all the difference for him, because it gets quite hot here sometimes. Helpful in the rain too. I know he used it to listen to skywarn on his baofeng when there was a storm. I have an FTM-400, but I have never used the cross-band repeat feature myself.
always love the information
I have tested mine out on the 400, but have not needed it in real time yet. Glad to know it's there though.
Great info Michael!
Great job, Sir!
Kenwoods are definitely more cross band repeat friendly. Look up fixed band repeating. You need a dual band handheld and you’ll have to be able to hear the repeater on your handheld. With fixed band you listen to the repeater on your hand held and only transmit from your mobile when you key your hand held. This saves your battery and your mobile. This is the primary way I use my setup. It also prevents your mobile from locking up the repeater as it’s only transmitting in one direction and only when you key versus it transmitting every time someone on the repeater Keys’s down. Again you have to be able to hear the repeater from your handheld to do this.
I love the remote control feature of the crossband via dtmf on the kenwood tm v71... use the crossband a lot at home in combo with a handy while at home so can use repeaters ... with the remote control feature can change repeaters or change power settings or turn on or off the crossband and so much more
Sergio Cavazos Kenwood stopped making radios after a certain serial number that support DTMF control. Unfortunate to say the least.
I've used my ID5100 on cross band many times. It works great but it sure get hot, quick!
Very informative video. I am looking for a mobile rig now and this is one of the requirements. I currently have the FT5DR, so I am strongly leaning towards the FTM-400XDR or maybe even the FTM-300DR.
Mike I am a new ham and your videos are excellent, I have a tyt 9800 and bought it with the intention of using cross band repeat, still trying to get the antenna tuned to all the bands, haven't got 6 or 10 meters in tolerable swr but will keep trying, the 2 meter and 70 cm work great, it's fun learning all this stuff KN6GZP Dave thanks.
Great video!
Good explanation!
Great video. I'll try it. Thanks
I've had the FT400 for about 3+ years, I may have keyed it up 2, 3 times and never read the manual. I see it can do a lot more then I know. Thanks
ah but Cross band repeat isn’t in the ftm-400 manuel. Yaesu has said “ they forgot to put it in” (true statement).
@@forgetyourlife lol, You would think it would have been posted. Something for me to play with but I first need to buy a new programing cable to update the system. When I bought the 400 new about 3 years ago I tried to update it but found the cable was bad, sent it back to Yaesu and was told the cable is not warrantied :( wow. I like Yaesu and always had one or more but that pissed me off so I started buying Icom which is another great company.
Great video
I have 3 radios that do crossband repeat. I have preprogrammed vhf/uhf frequencies to use. I also set the simplex frequencies to a tone on both the rx and tx. That way I know I'm the only one going to have access to the crossband repeater.
Excellent video as always. I enjoy using my cross band repeater. I like that you mentioned the legal obligations. 73 KI7WGA
I've got a TYT TH-9800 and it works great as a crossband repeater. You can't beat it for the price ($200 - $300).
Very informative.
Thanks great video. When I tried this I was transmitting fine on VHF but for some reason the VHF wasn't coming through on the UHF side? Do you need the FTM-400 volume turned up on both frequencies?
Hi Micheal,
Thank you for all of your videos. They’ve helped me tremendously throughout my ham radio ventures.
Do you happen to know if the FTM-400XDR is capable of “locked-band repeat”/one way-repeat?
ok now question?when I am at work the signals get degraded so in order for me to reach the repeater I use a simplex frequency to connect with repeater while I am working so I keep it on with a ctcss tone.I was told that since the crossband is not legal because the radio has no id and I cant use simplex freq for crossband?
I cant keep running out to the car if I am at work .while on break I can use it but I leave it on so that I can still hear the repeater
Question: UHF handheld into the cross-band radio and out on VHF via land-based repeater. Does the cross-band radio then retransmit the received VHF signal from the land-based repeater back to your handheld on UHF? Or do you also need to receive the land-based VHF repeater signal on your dual-band handheld? Maybe the xband radio does retransmit the UHF signal, since you indicated the cross-band radio is running in full duty cycle? Is cross-band one way or is it cross-banding both ways? Thanks
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Interesting video as always, could we get a review of the Anytone AT-D878UV plus w/ bluetooth and GPS?
i am new to crossband but i like to connect with the repeater while at work and listen to it while working and using while on break but i am told i cant do this .the radio cannot be used to broadcast a repeater.just a question so that i understand the does and donts
I stumbled into a crossband repeater frequency. 146.52Mhz to 52.525Mhz. It was interesting to hear the operators arguing if it was legal to have the crossband repeater running on those frequencies. They wanted to track down the repeater. But some of the operators insisted that it was completely legal and they would make fools of themselves if they went knocking on the door of the person that set it up. They started getting into a verbal fight about whether it was legal or not. Meanwhile, they were using the crossband repeater anyway. Thus, they were being hypocrites of it was illegal. It I was legal, why complain about it. It got quite, "colourful."
Is there anyway to have the FTM-400xdr display the repeater locations?
New to this and thanks for the video. Would it be more feasible to setup a mobile type repeater instead of using crossband for say an event.
Excellent! How do I know that I am in Xband or not on the FTM-400DX?
You say to unplug the mic for the FTM-400. However, Yaesu told me that's not needed. I tried it with the mic plugged in, did some talking & a friend listened on both freqs with another radio & could not hear my talking so it seems it's ok to leave the mic plugged in.
I have an older kenwood tm v71a and it has "remote control" capability which means you can control it with another handheld radio using dtmf tones.
Unfortunately they stopped offering this feature on newer models.
Beats me as to why they stopped offering such a great feature.
You could also control your TS-2000 with the D-7AG handheld‚ including HF. The FCC had some issues with Kenwood's SkyCommand feature when it was first introduced‚ but Kenwood corrected those problems. As useful as it was‚ it never took off and they must have quietly dropped it in subsequent radio models.
You mentioned keep your power low. So on your example equipment, can you change the power output (lower wattage output) when in cross mode repeater for the Yeasu FTM400XDR?
On the FTM-400XDR, you really cannot change anything while in cross-band repeater mode. However, if you have the channels setup with a certain power level before entering x-band repeat mode, those power settings persist once you have activated it. I generally have the repeater channel on 'mid' and the x-band channel on 'low.'
So do I need to set the simplex side with the offset as well as the tone on both the rig and hand held that’s where I get confused. I would think the tone but not offset. Any help appreciated Also I’m thinking of getting the 400 it’s been out for a while what are you thoughts on it. Should I wait for an update
No need for an offset on the simplex side- just set the tone. The way crossbanding works- you are transmitting and receiving to the cross band radio via simplex and the cross band radio will automatically transmit on the repeater's input and receive on the output
I have a question about connecting a TNC to the FTM-400XDR to map packets and have the ability to TX APRS messages. My call is N6KMD.
I have a FTM-400XDR and I have tried a Mobilinkd 2 and a TNC-X connected to a tablet running APRSDROID. I do have the CT-164 cable and the CT165 cable.
Have you been able to receive and map a packet or transmit a APRS packet from the FTM-400XDR?
To answer my own question, i got it to work with a TNC-X and the CT-164 cable with APRSIS32 software. I think the different thing that I did was I turned on the internal TNC with the TNC-X connected.
I have my HRI-200 Wires X node set up with my FTM400 and I was thinking about putting it in cross-band repeat mode in order to basically join local traffic around town and my Wires X room. My main concern would be the amount of stress this would put on the radio, as it would be transmitting for all local traffic and Wires X traffic…
Thoughts?
When one uses the FTM 400 AS A CROSS BAND RADIO; DOES ONE NEED AND ADDITIONAL, SAY A HAND HELD TO ACCESS THE 2 METER FREQ. OR ONE CAN USE THE MICROPHONE ON THE 2 METER MODE ON THE FTM 400, YOU JUST SET UP,?
Can you use this with APRS from an HT?
Alinco DR735T also has xb rpt.
Thanks!
Thank you for your support. It’s greatly appreciated
Loved the photo bomb of the squirrel
Nice informational video. Can you crossband with digital C4FM also?
Analog only. The way the audio is routed through the system for cross-band‚ it bypasses the C4FM vocoder.
Is there a way to control the Yaesu FT-400 via DTMF codes sent from an HT?
To my knowledge the FTM-400 cannot be controlled over the air via DTMF codes.
Is there any way to control the FTM400 xband repeater via dtmf? There isn't even a manual for this mode of operation.
To my knowledge there is no way to control the FTM-400 via DTMF tones. That would be a nice feature‚ though.
I want to implement your suggestion, beginning at 8:52, to be careful not to cause harmful interference by keeping the power low. I'm in a deep radio hole in the mountains and need 50 watts transmit power to reach my two nearest VHF repeaters, which are about 20 and 40 miles away and are not in my line-of-sight. But one to five watts would be just fine for both directions on the UHF side of "wireless microphone" link to a cross-band repeater. Do you know of any cross-band capable radio that allows you to set different power levels for transmitting on the VHF and UHF sides? KD7AVV, Provo Canyon, Utah
I still welcome any recommendation you have for other models that can do this, but I have learned that The Yaesus FTM-400 DXR, the Icom IC2410H, and the Yaesu FT8800R can do this, and that some Kenwood mobile radios can not.
This is demonstrated for the Yaesu FTM-400 XDR from 2:32 to 3:23 at czcams.com/video/MQaqEAq3UZE/video.html.
At www.eham.net/forum/view?id=topic=75346.0;wap2, N3CSA states (2011), "I have run older Icom IC2410H and the newer Yaesu FT8800R radios in crossband repeat mode this way with the two meter side at high power and the UHF on low power for years with no problems. I am aware that some radios (Kenwood mobils) will let the smoke out if you try that with them........... (Once the smoke gets out, They don't work anymore...... And it is tough to get the special smoke and then get it back inside them.)"
Icom 2730A is also a great crossband radio.
Yes, I use the Icom 2730A. However, at least mine did not have the repeater option in the menu. There is a hack to add it to the menu. I watched a video on CZcams and it only took a couple of minutes to set up. de KI7WGA
Can I crow and fusion to UHF analog,and use the analog UHF to TX my ft-300 on digital..thank you
VE9DEN
You can't cross mode with the cross band repeat. The cross band function is analog only.
Hi - can I do cross-band WITHOUT the "cross"? I want to use my (UHF) HT to hit my (UHF) base station to connect to the club (UHF) repeater?
You could link two UHF frequencies, but it would require a duplexer system to isolate the channels. A full duplex repeater works in the same way, so you would need two radios, a control system, and a UHF capable duplexer. It would certainly take up more space than a cross band VHF/UHF link would.
Ok thanks
Will using a repeater that is linked to say 20 other repeaters through out the state be an issue?
It shouldn't be an issue. I've crossbanded on linked repeater systems with fine results. Just remember to wait about a second when you key up before speaking so that the crossband and the links have time to engage.
Hello Michael, I have a FTM400 being delivered shortly. I’m curious if you know. Using a ft2dr can I cross band repeat APRS SMS messages to the ftm 400 to be broadcasted? I hope that question makes sense.
Ie. hiking or camping smsgte a short text message from ht.
You could possible do that. You will have to run APRS on your FT2DR on a UHF frequency for the cross band. You may also need to adjust the APRS transmit delay a bit to account for the lag during the cross band process. Another option may be to put a fill in digipeater in your vehicle to relay your packets while you are hiking: czcams.com/video/1SvibQpaXBY/video.html
@@KB9VBRAntennas thank you for the speedy reply! Off to watch that video now. Can always count on you! 73 de K2SCH
@@KB9VBRAntennas outstanding video!
Has anyone tried Crossband Repeat to a Wire-X room? Is that possible? I'm thinking about using a FTM-400 and a FT-70dr.
That will not work as the crossband repeat on the FTM-400 is analog only. It is unable to crossband analog to digital.
Just a heads up, your wireless mic was taking a lot of hits. Check your batteries or switch to another frequency. There were quite a few dropouts in your content. Great stuff though, thanks!
For some reason my wireless always has more interference outdoors than inside. I'm using an Azden Pro-XD- I've had it for a few years‚ and am planning to replace it sometime this fall with the Rode RodeLink which actually lets you switch channels if you receive interference.
Can a Yaesu FT991A do crossband repeat on the VHF/UHF bands?
Unfortunately no. It only has one VFO dedicated to the VHF and UHF bands.
@@KB9VBRAntennas Thanks for the reply! New to HAM and just got my Gen in one sitting...now studying for Extra. Debating on FT710 vs 991A vs 891... but I feel like i will be using VHF/UHF more and my FT5D just couldn't transmit well and the idea of crossband repeat comes to mind--I'm thinking of waiting for the 500 hoping it has crossband. I still want to learn HF but not a priority at this time...somehow I'm liking the idea of the 891 vs the 710 and just get the 500 for VHF/UHF?? What do you think??
You always talk about the distant repeater on 144 & your HT on 440. Could it also be the other way around? Distant repeater on 440 & HT on 144?
You can certainly do that, but not all radios support crossbanding from VHF to a UHF repeater, so check the specs. (The FTM-400 does).
@@KB9VBRAntennas That's very interesting. Did not know that some radios could not do that but I'm very happy that my FTM-400 does. My ARES/RACES Club had a class about this but did not mention the limitations on some radios. I will be sure to spread the word in case some people are having problems. You say to check the documentation but as far as I know, on my radio, there is 0 documentation on this feature. If you know of documentation on how to setup FTM-400 for cross banding, please Point me the way. Thanks for all the info.
Can you crossband into and from fusion?
The FTM-400 only has a single digital vocoder so it can not cross band System Fusion.
only negative with this, if the Car is off, any radio I have tried this with will not operate on anything but 5 watts and for only about a half hour before it reboots whenever the radio keys up due to low voltage.
Unless new cars are different than mine (2014 Outback), you may want to check your battery as it may be towards the end of life. I direct connect the radio to the battery and can run full power when the engine is off. But that brings up a second issue: running cross-band with the engine off for an extended period of time will deplete the battery and may leave you stranded. If I anticipate using crossband for more than half hour or so, I will connect the transceiver to an auxiliary battery so I'm not concerned about running down my vehicle battery.
Is crossband what law enforcement agencies use?
Technically, your call sign gets repeated on the UHF and VHF when you sign off. So I don't see a issue FCC wise. The only issue I can see is if the transmitter is not within "arms" reach, such as remote instillation. It's Kinda like using your tv remote. Maybe someone with more knowledge can correct me.
Kenneth H Exactly. None of the frequencies used will not hear you say your callsign. I've never understood the argument that you need to have Morse or some other ID from the mobile radio in crossband. Every time someone tries to argue why they end up proving my point for me. Thus why the 400 doesn't have a built-in ID - it isn't needed.
I'm confused. I don't see how the mobile radio to HT transmissions aren't ID'd? Yes, any ID made by someone else on the other end will come through, but my understanding is that doesn't count because it's your radio and you need to make your own ID in it in both bands...? I'm not arguing with you, because I want to know more and understand... I'm just not following what you guys are trying to say here. Thanks!
@@USAFJUNKIE I think you are actually in agreement. Let me explain the concept further though.
As far as I know, repeaters only need to self ID themselves when operating in AUTOMATIC MODE; Meaning when there is no one in direct control of the repeater station. If you are the owner of a repeater and you go a few miles to the store and two other people are using your repeater, then the repeater is operating in automatic mode.
Now, if you are only a few feet away from the repeater and you are using the repeater only for it's higher power and better antenna, then your HT is only being used as a wireless microphone. You are still present as the control operator at that point for the repeater. So, when you key up the HT and identify, you are identifying on the UHF for the HT and the VHF for the repeater; of which you are the control operator for both radios and frequencies. Neither radio is operating in automatic mode.
Now, the gray area is how far can you be from the repeater and still be considered in local control. I think if you are ten miles away, most people would consider you to not be in local control. Within a couple of hundred yards, would probably be more reasonable. Hope this helps.
Full duplex repeater stations are under Automatic control as a control operator is not present at the control point. Cross Band repeaters are classified as an auxiliary stations since you are using a UHF link to relay your signal to another station. So auxiliary station rules would apply which includes the need to identify. Auxiliary stations can be remote or local controlled‚ but regardless they still need identification‚ and the identification of the UHF link from the cross band radio to the handheld is the sticking point.
KB9VBR Antennas But the uhf frequency is the same when transmitting to the crossband as it is from the crossband, so the callsign is heard then since personal identification requirements still apply.
You have to make sure that your crossband radio is capable to identify itself every 10 minutes.
who will know or care, just do it have fun.
@@brian.7966 I am only echoing the message from our local OO (official observer) if your on a repeater that is very active and your radio does not identify and comes up with an issue you and they are screwed ,not even mentioning the interference with any other operation that may be going on.
The issue is a little more complex than this‚ and I touch on this very problem of cross banding in the video. The VHF side is good as it is identified when you identify in the normal course of a transmission. The UHF side that comes back to your handheld is the one that would be considered an unidentified transmission. Yes there may be an identification tied to it via the repeater or another station using the repeater. But since the UHF transmission is originating from your radio‚ it also needs your callsign attached to it.
How to solve this issue? Kenwood TM-V71A and TM-D710G both have auto identifiers built it- so if cross banding is an essential feature to your activities I'd recommend those radios. You could have the other party on the repeater identify on your behalf eg: K9XYZ on KB9VBR cross band‚ But this is cumbersome and the other person may not realize you are cross banding. Or third‚ do a identification on the UHF channel from the cross band radio when you turn the cross band off. It's better than nothing but doesn't satisfy the 10 minute rule.
That being said‚ you can see why people cross band‚ don't identify the UHF channel‚ and hope all will be well.
Our club had a problem with that. A member was using crossband and utilized the 10 min CW announcement on his Kenwood mobile rig. The thing kept going off every 10 mins and interfered with everyone's conversations on the club's repeater. They told him about it and he shut it off. At the next meeting, the member gave a presentation on crossband repeating and the rules and regulations. He said the same thing about the FCC and station ID. It boils down to common sense and good practice with the spirit of regulations. Is it 100% legit? Not really, but it makes everyone happy and there is no abuse.
@@KB9VBRAntennas Another solution is to transmit your call sign from your HT with no split on the output frequency of the repeater you're linked to (with pl tone if necessary). That way it's picked up by your cross band radio on the 2m side and retransmitted on the 70cm side. You could save that in memory in an adjacent slot to your cross band frequency for quick access.
Icom 2800 good crossband lol
It certainly is‚ I have an IC-2800 in the shack that I occasionally use for that function.
@@KB9VBRAntennas I've seen it in your back ground before.
Commercial users call the feature a "extender"
Have several cross band mobils, Yaesu FT8800R, 2 FTM 400XDR, TYT9800, used to have a IC2720 which I lost in the flood of Harvey. Also used to have a Icom W32A handy talkie that we used on balloon launches for the 90,000 foot antenna which we worked stations all over Texas and Louisiana. Do several events using them, bike-a-thons, marathons. We have a Special Needs event that is spread out over a wide are. Love all. Thanks for the video.