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The Problem with Twitch Streamer Entitlement
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2020
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Streamers are mostly supported by their viewers on Twitch, either through donations and subscriptions. Everyone approaches asking for subscriptions and donations to make more money for their streams a different way.
Recently, a broadcaster started a conversation on Twitter with a clip that went viral as a result of how she asked for subscriptions for her stream. I wanted to talk about the mindset of some broadcasters on the platform, and use this opportunity to talk about something I think about a lot - which is how realistic it is to be a Twitch streamer your entire life, and how many older streamers aren't getting the same number of viewers on Twitch as they used to.
Do you think streamers should ask their community for subscriptions and donations? How much is too much? Are broadcasters too entitled on Twitch? Or do Twitch streamers deserve to make more money on Twitch? Should Twitch streamers ask for money from their communities at any size?
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It's worth noting that most of her "content" is reacting to CZcams videos...which she views with two ad blockers on. So she's denying those who own those videos ad revenue. Just wanted to add that.
For real?
Not to mention that is the easiest/laziest content to possibly do as a streamer. It's actually mad annoying that she feels so entitled for doing nothing.
At least you added something
@@PrecisionCalc bunch a simps in her chat
L'mao, she could've subscribed to CZcams Red. That gives channels more revenue than ad revenues. Dear lord, do people not know optics?
"3 months to cool down then pop back up"- well that aged well
The actual prophet how has twitch not just hired this man.
only a company that cares about getting shit done and supporting the viewers/creators will hire people fit for their positions.
@@whocares4468 he'd probably make more money more comfortably streaming while consulting companies and individuals when he feels like it.
I actually kind of appreciate the amount of editing that goes into these videos to cut through idleness. It's like watching a post-produced livestream.
because it IS a post-produced livestream?
It's awesome that Devin is growing while telling others how to grow, lol.
The people getting rich during the gold rush weren't the people mining for gold, but the people selling the shovels.
@@ChrisTitusTech #FACTS
You have to have some sort of base and field experience, and ability to teach, I think. Which Devin does have.
Well if he didn't grow, why would anyone listen to his advice? If he didn't grow himsself that would express that the advice he's giving isn't working. You would't learn how to drive a car from a person who's only ever used a bike, and has never seen a car.
@@onaucc9899 also #Facts
“Is my content worth watching?” A beautiful question all content creators should ask themselves on the daily. I love watching your videos as they are super informative and relative. Your content is definitely worth watching 👍
I have watched a few videos of yours so far and i totally agree with what you are saying. I have streamed on Twitch 3 years and I am partnered, but I've have gained more from a few videos from yours than I have since i have started streaming I have had many ups and downs, but now i feel like i understand them. Thank you
LMAO ok you sold me bro.. It's been exactly 3 months and there is a new person on the hot seat for entitlement im subscribing right now!
1:42 When you have to wait to sip your beverage because you'll totally spit it out listening to this streamer clip.
Blast Binary that. was. so. cringy
WOW
Hey Devin could you make a Video or Talk on Stream about the success of Micheal Reeves?
Like OfflineTV was well known but in my mind the graphs of metrics just went straight up from him joining the group..
TotallySober I’d love to hear his thoughts on that
I was listening very intently to the video and you hit me with the "butt detonated" @ 22:28. Got a dang good laugh out of me. I'll finish the video soon but so far so great. Love the content, Devin!
I'm sorry for taking so long to sub. Your videos are on my feed so often I thought I already was. Keep up the great videos!
I think that this video is really enlightening even in this crazy time we are in right now. Thanks Devin for taking the time to make this! Looking forward to catching one of your streams.
3:13 I was about to leave, Devin mentions why he even wants to talk about this. I stay for the entire video
This was really informative and actually inspiring/motivating, thank you!
This video hits home. Really appreciate the info!
Devin Nash has nailed it.
Self reflection can be very difficult. I spent 16 years training martial arts, when the result of your failure results in injury, its devastating mentally to accept responsibility. I'd blame my coach, the competition, injuries sometimes even my loved ones. Only when I started looking at myself, did I start to see a noticeable change in my ability to self reflect and improve mentally.
Hey man really late on this one, love the content. Keep it up.
Devin, thanks for talking about all these things!
my legit favorite part of that clip is how she is talking about how she provides quality content while she is watching youtube in the background and a giant announcement that she has a guest to do half the heavy lifting for her channels entertainment
I know you even talked about this, but I think you made it. Your video popped up in my recommended 4 times without me clicking it. And now I clicked :)
Tldr: To be a successful streamer, start by being rich.
Or have somekind of successful external exposure
You don't need to be rich, but a good computer, mic, internet, and a couple hours a day for the bare minimum
Start by starting
Keep going by remaining consistent
Become more entertaining over time
think i found you about a month or 2 ago. Never missed a vid since and probably watched all older videos with cam. Really enjoyed the video about Starwars.
Also have a question for you: What do you think is best to do? stream in english or in your own language. I noticed i get alot more viewers speaking dutch.
Anyway keep up the good work!
You answered your own question
@@LowAim very true, still would like hes take on it tho haha
But what do you stream tho
You always make me think about how to offer value and how to improve chances of success in my own content. Thanks dude!
Maybe she should focus on being a sponsorship worthy stream.. plenty of real money to made with 200+ average viewers. who would be worried about subs ?
Hey Devin, Thanks for the information and content. I believe I may be going into the "streamer death spiral" and I have been for a while. Currently, I stream primarily Street Fighter V content on youtube and twitch. People Like me but i feel like im failing to give the value that my community usually wants. So, now I'M IN that place of "What do I do?" cause what i have been doing isnt working anymore.
It always comes down to your content. I don't stream, but here on CZcams I had to pivot my content. This caused my viewership to drop drastically here, but I know that it will be worth it in a year or two down the line.
No one owes you anything in life be thankful.. great video devin
Quality as always 💪
Do you have a podcast?
remember when you used to have to PAY MONEY to distribute content online. it's a miracle places like twitch and youtube let you host vids and streams for free, let alone make money
8:44 also when she was trending there were 100's of people in her chat but it was followers only so a lot of people were following just to join the conversation even though she wasn't live :-D
Hell I'm still trying to figure out what content I want to make let alone trying to find an audience.
To Echo what you have said about Greed. I think in the Prayer "Lama Kyeno" there is a line that is something along the lines of: " The Joys of Samsara are like drinking salty water, the more I drink the stronger the thirst becomes, Please Lama look in compassion to me, so I am able to cut the strings of desire. " Could also be another text and it isn't an exact quote but something I remember.
I might look it up later and edit this comment for correction.
Thanks for helping me with my mindset issues, genuinely.
I always believe if you are in a place of service to others the rewards come after. If your intentions of streaming is to just make money then you probably won't. Keeping that high vibration, caring about what you are making from a place of passion and love. 😊
i recently got affiliate, and it's really pathetic how people go beyond begging to outright reprimanding their viewers about subs. I would just be happy that I have an audience out of all these other streamers!
Each video is always a banger
11:36 "because no one wants to be around a streamer that is negative and constantly talks about how their viewer sucks"
dude, this is so true. i've been thinking about it recently, and I feel like lately it's cool as a streamer to constantly shit talk their chat.
dudes, the chat is at least 70% of the entertainment of the stream for me (and many others) lol
It's donations/tts that always bring a bit of random fun interaction and creativity to it - basically, viewers are paing to be a short moment-comedian.
I get it, it's not easy constantly being live, and having live reactions to your stuff. many content creators probably have their way of ignoring the usually small, but still loud negative comments.
that is hardly possible as a streamer. and yet, that "chat sucks, is a bunch of degenerates, complete virgin incel idiots" and stuff is getting annoying lol
specially considering i think the majority of twitch chat isn't as bad as many make it out to be.
yeah, repetetive memes. sure. but that doesn't mean they are all the things mentioned above.
To tie this to the topic - I wonder if the (bigger) streamers I'm currently watching (with a few exceptions) are at this kind of point.
I'd guess not, because their stats, aside of one streamer in particular, are not bad. If this truly is a pattern I'm observing, then there's another problem coming soon, I guess.
PS: To make a nuanced differentiating, I'm not talking about people like Soda. Soda calls his chat retarded, but I'd reckon the first thing Soda would use to describe himself would be "I'm a moronic retard"
Hype hype hype I send my stream to you all the time when they ask me about streaming lol
The only streamers I follow are ones who constantly say "you're not required to donate, please feed yourself first at least" and the they get gift subbed bombed and start crying😁
I'm always worrying about my content. It's never good enough for me. :/
The fact that Twitch even exists where people can watch for free, on top of the hate for ads, is fucking wild. Viewers are awful and refuse to sub but refuse to watch ads and streamers have no chance to do anything but just sit and wait and hope that the effort they put in is rewarded with non guaranteed and non substantial monetary gain.
Devin saying that he disagrees with the statement that people will only sub after the streamer has provided value because the "market decides".
1. Co discussed the expectation that people don't sub to creators until after they provide value. He didn't say that people shouldn't sub until after they receive value. 2. People measure value in different ways and maybe just finding a stream that makes people feel welcome is adding value to that person. I think this is where the market decides... I think that Devin is right that the market decides whether content is valuable but it is narrower than he presented.
Devin is #yanggang! No one else of promience is talking about automation using self-driving trucks as an example. I'd subscribe if I wasn't already. :)
Also: #buttdetonated
Not sure about Destiny game but i remember having problems with RNG in Hearthstone. Basically the meta shifted and the decks became more tempo oriented a.k.a less important decissions which make the game really boring and it was really tilting losing to people that make a lot of mistake just from my prespective alone. But yeah focusing in self improvement is really important no matter what you want to do. Game developers will make bad decissions from time to time you just need to adapt. Also if anyone wants to try turn based game try Prismata!
L so we meet again , this is light yagami lol
this is the same things I was hearing years ago about youtubers. A shame people don't learn
If she feels so strong about it, i dont understand why she doesnt turn on Sub Only streams... She has the power to choose if her content is free or not.
I don't think that'll be a good idea. Her followers might drop even more and new followers won't be gained. Interactions will be low too. Maybe if the content she is showing has a lot of incentive to sub, then itd work, but that doesn't seem to be the the case here.
Devin, I'm so glad you made it to 90K :)
Very wise. Great advice.
IDK if a TV show is ass it gets cancelled. Is that any different here
I think it's so funny that you still use the cosmic background that you put on for that flat earth "debate" with Jon Zherka.
5:04 How I want to live my future life. Devin is a spirit animal.
22:55 Yes these games contain RNG, but if you do the best decisions possible, you'll have a higher elo, because the things that are not decided by rng, are the correct ones. Same with TFT, auto chess, and somewhat normal chess even.
Devin Nash predicts the future
This is great. I'm not a streamer, but find this stuff really interesting
To further the discussion on not teaching old dogs new tricks, watch Larry King's youtube channel. Hes doing interviews still, but runs it like a live talkshow, and has cuts for non-existent commercial breaks.
I'm a newer twitch streamer and i'm not really sure how to appeal to people especially when all i know is video games.
Work on being able to create content from scratch, and it will make transition to streaming easier I would imagine. For example, make gaming videos with scripts drawn out to work on storytelling.
Or if you're just a god on the sticks, then just play.
Hows the streaming been going for you so far?
@@akzual50 it was going fine but i'm taking a break to focus on a career thats making me enough money to pay the bills till this corona shit is over.
Some Twitch streamers be like: Waaaaaa people aren't supporting my lazy NEET "job" wub wub wub wub wub
Though from what I've heard, there are more needs for Trucker jobs but less people want to be truckers, particularly due to the extensive time away from home and meager salaries for what they do.
I feel like you could have used the term "external locus of control"
Now: BadBunny. Followers gained +24,137 (30 days)
I was apart of this community since JTV and gave up on the site late last year after I had an issue with two partners. One knew I was special needs/mentally disabled and the other one was just going by what the other partner said. I made some videos under another name that they did not like which is fine because that happens but they went to twitter about it and proceeded to project false information that you could not find anywhere in the video and of course no one watched it and instead just supported whatever their favorite streamer fed them. I myself could not fight 1 vs. 1,000+ people shaming me over a streamer's baby fit lie so I just removed myself and years of hard work from the internet because a person with autism has issues trying to speak to 1,000 people yelling at him over the internet. Earlier this year, I found out that the partner who knew I was autistic and started all of this explained in a private DM that by quote of him, "I had to get rid of that retard somehow."
Entitlement is an understatement to these people.
Narcissistic sociopaths fit better.
it would be cool if you went on dropped frames to talk to cohhcarnage about this topic
When you put out a product that's inherently free and there's plenty of competition from others for you have to go at it with the expectation that you will not get money unless you genuinely make someone want to tip you. Maybe your content is really good and they want to sub. Maybe you have incentives for hitting certain mile markers. Whatever it is, you can not just assume that because you out yourself out there that you are owed a paycheck. You cannot assume that just because you got a paycheck last week that you'll get one this week.
Oh MAN that clip in the beginning. WOW. That was so cringy
Has BadBunny tried using MSpaint?
Literally 3 months later another girl did it smh
Its gonna take 3 months to cool down then itll pop up. You almost got it spot on just 1 month off
The top 3% dictates the market, and the bottom 97% try to follow the metrics wherever possible, unless if it's someone who is literally just doing it for money, then they are probably going to make as little effort as possible, whilst trying to maximise their profits.
Wait a minute. I JUST looked at badbunny states 3 hours from this video and she gained 18000+ from followers. wtf ?
Litework simps
bad publicity is also publicity..
why pay when someone will TriHard
11:50 shout out sean ranklin
It comes down to not many people are able to be BRUTALLY honest with themselves (in all aspects of life, not just streaming). Your product sucks, change/adapt or die. A wise man once said "Nobody cares, work harder". I'd say in this case it's more like "work smarter," but yeah.
Yeah, to be honest a lot of this sort of stuff is why I got tired of the whole "content creator" and streamer culture. Too much emphasis on monetization and too many ways to donate with more cropping up over time. That and the rampant parasocial relationships. I do thank you for being one of the people who said "it's not just badbunny, she's just the figurehead for this" and talking about the death spiral. I don't know too much about badbunny and only learned about her because she exposed herself to the DSP circle, but from what digging I did, she has a history of culling her viewership with similar episodes of lashing out at the past.
nice prediction^^
I really hope to one day produce content that is valuable to viewers. So far I'm still in the learning how to edit phase, but I'll get there!
I 100% agree with this logic for most streamers and that BadBunny will fail in 5 years from irrelevancy because I don't think she strives to be the best she can be. And she should be working towards the next step after 5 years right now.
But for right now, for the next 2 years, I think she'll do fine, she has her core who keeps watching, who will be fine with her bully persona. With a revolving door of ppl paying for content short term. I don't think she strives to want more than her 200/400 viewers and just wants her "McDonald's job"
CohhCarnage is a very cool guy, chill, entertaining, humble, totally worth watching him if you like variety games streamers.
I still wondering if BadBunny donates money to each person whom videos she watches every day.
Ego stroking is disgusting
Gotta be completely honest: I never understood Twitch donations. Why on earth would I donate money to someone that has more cash than I do?
If someone has the talent and is completely broke I'd do it. But I would never ever donate to someone that already clears 20,30,40K a month and simply doesn't need the money.
yes! I so agreee :)
True.
Content creators on any platform in order to present their stream in a way that is visually and audibly pleasing to the masses incur a particular debt to both time and money on the product they wish to create. I understand they do this freely and I am DEFINITELY NOT SAYING that people should be forced to pay for this content, but what is the point of demarcation here? I mean....its the same with food service employees right? No you are not required to tip your server/delivery driver by any stretch HOWEVER by someone failing to realize that these people depend on that level of support you are de-incentivizing their desire to do it.
I'm not talking about making money to the level of CohhCarnage but there are content creators out there that just want to make enough income to pay the overhead they have from their streaming. People pay for overlays, emotes, equipment etc and when you sit there day in and day out with TONS of people in your chat but seldom donations and seldom subscribers how can you not blame a person like BadBunny from erupting like that? Its very clear shes presenting a product that has VALUE yet her viewers are not supporting her monetarily.
I'd probably throw a fit at a certain point too.
ChairForceOne if the content is good enough people will pay for it. there’s no shortage of people who are able to make money on twitch. expecting or demanding people to pay for your content on a free platform is stupid. Probably comes from the reliance of American people on tipping each other rather than actually getting a living wage from employers
@@Ilych367 the issue is here if she's not presenting content that is worth it why do they keep coming back? Why are they sitting in her room for hours only to not support?
Again I do not agree with the way she handled her frustration. She's 100% wrong here. However it's time we stop babying viewers into thinking that this content is easy to make, and cheap. It's not.
In layman's terms, sometimes we are our own problem because we're quick to blame others instead of ourselves
Fuck the money..
Do this hobby because you enjoy it / like to entertain. Iv been hibernating and working at a job, for a year n a half that I don't enjoy, just to earn the money so I can have a well produced stream & videos. I like to create, Id still create even of no one watched or no one wanted It, I do it for me, I have to get it out. It takes alot of time to save up $6,000 When your in your 30's n have kids, I spend 8hrs a day walking around my city removing graffiti just so I can create n express the stupid ideas that pop into my head.
When I seen left is best I was not surprised
Jesus, such a big difference to the streamers of olde.
Devin, you're doing great. You can relax...a little. Just a little.
Ok but really, this does raise a valid point. At which point does it become, and for a lack of a better word, content theft. I mean you consume 20, 40, 60, 100 hours of content and contribute anything then there is something wrong there. The content creator has provided enough value to you that you have been there that many hours, yet you have returned nothing for that service. Where is the balance there?
@@retched Its not even remotely the same thing. Public broadcast networks are largely subsidized by the government as well as having private funding. It is also a great tool to incentivise paid content and the return on investment for cable companies would justify its cost. If not they would shut it down. Outside of the private sector, cable theft is actually a huge problem. Free content was never an "Open airwave" It was used to establish value before commitment. This is like a lambo dealership giving away lambo's for the chance to up-sell a tire package. 90% of people are going to take the lambo and be done with it and 10% are going to opt in for the tire package. Its a completely un-balanced system
@@retched His point still stands... No matter how these channels make their money, they still make money from viewer engagement, through advertising, funding, or etc... Twitch streamers and even CZcamsrs don't receive the same luxury and NEED to rely on user engagement and donations to survive financially! The fact that you were willing to stop engaging with this person over a point that doesn't even matter to the conversation just shows your dishonesty...
I live for these twitch talks
I get where she is coming from and like ya said many if not most streamers would say what she just did it’s honest and she ain’t wrong I love cochcarnage he is a cool guy but he is huge but he also started off small as well.
Like what she said she is not wrong imo it’s just not something you say out loud you have to find another way for people to sub to you cause shouting at them and attacking them is not gonna work and now it might be to late for her channel cause of the controversy the market will decide her channel dies.
This fits wings of redemption perfectly 👀
lol i was donating for 20 years to people all kinds of things from cloatsh to baby cribs to computers to fidnign random kids that where poor and giving them a birthday homeless shelters on Christmas i was even out in el nino giving people food and sleeping bags and few tents i could find nd one day some people told me i never did nothing for no one so ya
The market is the market of the market.
I'd like to point out that its the streamers JOB to EARN the money. I never beg or ask for money but I obviously want to make a career eventually but its MY job to do it!
thats why people should come to mixer! its a family over here and way less toxic
We are so far from automation though. It's almoust like saying next day we will have flying cars and robots serving us. Really far fetch idea. No wonder someone who actually has idea about it absolutely blasted you. xD
its lke trading on the stock market. If you buy something, in hope it will rise, because you need the money to survive, it will crush you mentaly AND financial within no time. And as more you loose, as more mad you get. But buying stocks without beeing in need of the profit, youre way more free in your mind, can be more into it and you can take action much faster. Those People are much better in Stock Markets then others.