Do you really need IBIS? Canon R5 vs C70 - Handheld Comparison
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Are you team IBIS or no IBIS?
I did not understand the question
Is it possible to turn off IBIS completely? And whether the WOBEL was caused by IBIS or the wide angle.
I want to buy an R5 and that's right what keeps me from buying and debating whether to buy the SONY A7 iv
Or R6 instead of what I look like. (I do not currently have a make or camera but I am not a beginning photographer.
I prefer the wobble over the jitters. But of course a gimbal, steadicam or tripod is the best
The r5c has digital stabilization at least so should be better than the c70 if there is none used for that test🤷♂️thoughts?
@@MrNegroni it is the same digital stabilisation as the EOS R and C70.
I don’t believe IBIS was ever intended to replicate the results of a gimbal. More just to remove all those micro jitters of handheld work, especially on longer focal lengths… which most cameras with IBIS do extremely well. I think it’s actually quite hilarious the way say many CZcamsrs test IBIS by running around or walking full speed backwards with the camera and then declaring the IBIS terrible because it didn’t magically make their footage look buttery smooth.
Yeah, sadly I used to be one of those guys until i realized that if the running/walking vlog is your way of testing how good a camera’s stability is, you could have just stopped at the newest GoPro for your needs.
The real ibis test for these full frame and cinema cameras should be how stable your footage is when you shoot handheld with a long focal length. That’s how ibis was intended to be used.
You’re exactly right. Everyone on CZcams thinks that IBIS is for walking, it is not it’s for stable shoulder or handheld filming while standing still! That’s why there is wobble.
@@kingdom001_ Thanks for clearing that I didn't like the effect in my r3 so I turned it off, now I know what is was intended for. I'll see how it works on a tripod with 70-200?
Thx for tell me that!! I am one of those who thought IBIS is for replacing a gimbal.
Finally someone read the manual.
The R5 Ibis is great as long as you are at 28mm or higher. If you are, it’s very predictable and flows nicely for most handheld shots. It makes a real difference. But under 28mm forget about it. It’s terrible with the wobble.
agreed, it's all about how wide of an angle you're shooting...
I wonder if things change a bit with a RF IS lens on the C70/R5C? It won't take out all the shake but might help reduce post stabilization artifacts. I think the basic conclusion of this test is if you want smooth fluid motion its going to be with a gimbal or stabilizer regardless if your cameras has IBIS or not. Personally, I think the IBIS wobble is worse and basically unfixable no matter what you do.
Used IBIS and handheld on my last project filmed with the R6. Didn't like the results cause of this wobble in certain situations which couldn't be corrected afterwards in post production. In the future I'll go back to filming with IBIS disabled and instead using my gimbal again to create smooth images.
Thanks for your video. Very informative and interesting to see/hear other experiences.
Thats why canon ibis is very bad and wobbly. Panasonic has great ibis.
IBIS to be is good and useful only for stills.
For videos without Gimbal, I would go with high Res + EIS/Post stab. Plan the FL/FoV used with that in mind, to compensate the crop.
Never had a camera with IBIS. I've rented some before, but it isn't something I have ever desired. With the Komodo GS, post stabilization looks soo good. Great video!
100% agreed! Nobody slams the Komodo for not having IBIS.. or are they? :D
No option to turn off IBIS on these cameras?
@@eladbari you can on the R5
Yep, you summed it up correctly. IBIS when it works is great and can be an asset but having the choice to shoot without it for when its does not is the way to go. Apart from the extreme wide angle wobbling, I have never liked that non distinct floaty feel to the end of a camera movement where it slightly overshoots one’s intended end composition, so I feel I am fighting it or having to guess where it is taking me. Ideally, a pair of the same camera, one with and one without IBIS would be workable, such as the R5 and R5C or back in the day a GH5 and GH5S!
Does the ibis on the r5 perform better when the camera is in crop mode?
There’s one fatal flaw if you’re comparing IBIS vs No IBIS in the R5 vs R5C. You’re comparing a C70 with speedbooster and cage versus the smaller and lighter R5. Heavier/larger cameras like the C70 with everything you have on it weighs roughly 2.5-3lbs more than your R5 rig. This makes the footage much more stable without IBIS than it does a smaller/lighter camera like the R5C without IBIS. So while you’re saying, yes there’s a little shake, it doesn’t look that bad, it will be worse, and not the same on the R5C.
I could take an Arri out handheld and produce some really nice mostly stable footage, but it doesn’t mean the C70 would be anywhere near it, and that’s due to the size/weight not considered in this video.
Thank you for this very well done comparison and review!
Just to know with the C70 did you enable IS in all the test?
Thanks Damien,
You points are very valid,
But for run and gun my view is the wobble is more acceptable.
The problem here is the R5 is so light and hard to get smooth footage whilst the C70 is heavier so giving you more inertia.
The reason i have passed on the R5C is the battery life and AF in cinema. I am the shooter and talent so need to rely on the AF. If i was behind the camera, i would get the C70.
I finally decided on the R3, it has great battery life, better low light and better ergonomics, whilst offering similar resolutions.
Did you use electronic IS on the c70 on the tests?
Another vote for team IBIS. But it requires an understanding of the physical limitations of sensor movement, and at what point focal length becomes an issue. Think of IBIS somewhat like using a tripod without the tripod. I.e., slower, more deliberate movements, avoid walking, etc. Technique is very important (and your no-IBIS handheld technique is good). I like IBIS since the sensor absorbs handheld micro jitters while giving the freedom to move around (being extra-careful when taking steps). Then, if a wider lens and-or more movement is required, then use a heaver camera (rig it), turn the IBIS off, and if necessary, use a gimble.
Did you film with shorter exposure?
When I stabilize shaky footage in part, the most irritating part is the motion blur without the corresponding motion.
As a professional, I use tripods and gimbals when I can, for example on sets for spots, commercials, etc. I film a lot of weddings and I do not always have time to use supports, so I mostly shoot handheld and use IBIS on Sigma primes and lens IS on Canon EF adapted on my Sony A7 III. I think the best test you can do with Canon R5 IBIS is not to stabilize movements (I don't mind about vloggers who want to get stabilized shots while walking) but to check how IBIS performs on fixed shots, without moving the frame: can it roughly substitute a tripod ? Because we know about wobble on wide angles, I would like to see IBIS efficiency using other focal lenghts such as 35, 50, 85, 100 mm on fixed shots. We have gimbals for movements. In my opinion, IBIS is for videographers who don't have time to set even a small and lightweight tripod because they are shooting reportage and need to move quickly.
No you don't.
I agree with you Jonathan, I think with longer focal lengths and static shots it's where IBIS shines, where no IBIS only has to rely on post-stabilization
And if the WOBEL only appears at wide angles and I buy the 15-35 and turn off the stabilizer, I will not have the WOBEL, so it frees me from the fetch, right?
In the rest of the long lenses I do not have the IBIS stabilizer will be without WOBEL because it will be from 50mm and up.
Depends what looks natural to me. Camera shake can sometimes look very natural, and I don't dislike the walking shots from the C70 here. Whereas the IBIS walking shots look digital and clinical to me, like an Osmo pocket or a smartphone. For some use cases IBIS will work great, but I agree, for my work I just don't want the unpredictability of having the image wobble around like that if it wants to.
I think too many forget these days that ibis isn’t something just video shooters use. Getting 4+ extra stops of stability greatly helps photographers.
Is this camera overkill for non-pro personal use for work, family/friends, travel? Or can it be used hand held run and gun ?
What are some tips to get steady handheld footage on the c70 with a canon ef 16-35 i.s. f4 ?
The real problem is that Canon does not allow us to turn the IBIS off without disabling lens stabilization.
In some shots the R5 was much better.
In others it was much worse.
Please everyone make a request to Canon to let us disable IBIS during video while keeping lens stabilization enabled.
I personally thought the R5 stability was much better. On that focal length, I didn’t notice much wobble. Given the difference in sensor size, I’d also prefer not to lose more field of view by stabilizing in post on the c70. The digital IS on the c70 is also a bit jerky and tends to bounce when youre using tracking or face detect which I don’t like. I know people complain about the IBIS wobble but on 24mm or higher it’s barely noticeable.
For a bit of context to my comment, I use the Canon C70 as my primary camera. I wouldn't exchange the DGO sensor for IBIS. However, if you really need stability and aren't using a gimbal or steady cam, the IBIS seems pretty great on the R5. Just has to be used in the appropriate situations with the right lenses. Also, the lenses you used for this test created a serious disadvantage for the C70 cause it wasn't stabilized. If you used the RF 15-35mm IS that would have been a more fare comparison.
I think some people are more sensitive to the wobble. I found it very distracting at 24mm and probably wouldn't use it for lenses under 35mm or even 50mm.
if you don't notice the wobble you need glasses lol
@@KtmDesignz its not that I can't see it at all, I just don't find it that distracting above 24mm. Again, I think you have to use it for the right types of shots and you still need to "ninja walk" but if you need stability I think having the option there is pretty great.
Very interesting! I wish R5c would be no IBIS with NDs. And a 85-ish 1.4 RF lens with IS like the EF one.
Is it possible to turn off IBS completely? And whether the WOBEL was caused by IBS or the wide angle.
I want to buy an R5 and that's right what keeps me from buying and debating whether to buy the SONY A7 iv
Or R6 instead of what I look like. (I do not currently have a make or camera but I am not a beginning photographer)
So helpful. Thank you!
Why u didn't turn on the stabilized on the c70?
There is an easy solution for the Ibis wobble. If you use the RF 15-35mm 2.8 zoom in to 20 mm instead of 15 mm. Then activate all modes (enhanced) of the stabilization. Yes it crops and you lose field of view but you will habe gimbal like shots without any wobble. The same with the RF 24-70 2.8. Set it to 24 mm and turn on all the Ibis modes. Have fun 😊👍
This is not a solution, but a bad workaround. People don’t buy 15mm lens for 3000$ only to be forced to use it at 35mm cropped.
Thank you for this comparison - I agree with everything you demonstrated! I don't care for the IBIS either. Also, love your voiceover @ 6:40 right where you say "shaky footage" - perfect moment for that comment haha!
Team IBIS, but I also shoot weddings and model shoots with highlight video reels. If it was commercial work, it would be a gimbal.
Did you use the advanced IS super 16 mode on the C70?
Were you using an IS lens on both cams?
Hey buddy. Would love love to see some z9 ibis review? Will you cover that camera?
I think IBIS is a great tool when you dont want to lumber around gimbals and using your camera for travel etc. It can easily be switched off by turning the IS on the lens or if using a manual lens going into the menu system. Its there when you need it and a very useful tool end of the day, However, Canon do need to improve the 'wobble' which in future hardware/software updates they porbably will.
Love it!
I wonder what difference would be introduced if you have used IS lens as well. In both cases.
Overall grade comparison and it is really hard to choose. I am deciding between r5 and r5c. I do both photo and video and having IBIS for photo is great. At least of me. :) But for video I guess gimbal is better option, if there is a need for stability.
What about digital IS ?
You guys are so sweet that I hope you get even more successful now.
Great video, you are a f'n mind reader bro!! Exactly the question I had when I pre-ordered the R5c
welches ef objektiv hast du verwendet? also hat das ibis?
Right out of the gate the C70 looked way more natural with using your technique. The R5 looked jelloish on the edges and just not natural. I still shoot with the Fuji XT3 and only use a stabilized lens and I prefer it over some examples I’ve see with XT4 IBIS. I’ve also saw a test with R5 and C mounted inside a vehicle and the R5c performed way better since it was essentially an extension of the car and wasn’t jello footage. I want to look into upgrading my XT3 for more MP and resolution to the R5c and use just digital IS and lenses with IS.
Great input in regards not having Ibis.. However, any thoughts using the digital IS? i understand it crops the image.
i used it a lot on doc shoots. The crop isn't that bad. But it also messes up your footage from time to time unfortunately
I would prefer it WITH IBIS ... for photo ! And in video for use with strong lenses, I currently shoot handheld R6 video with RF800/11 , even with 1.4tc, 1120mm ... well I went ahead and ordered the R5C anyway.
I'm surprised the wobble is that bad at 24mm.
I learned a lot from this video, sounds like the main uses for IBIS are:
1) Compact prime lenses in low light
2) On unstabilized 50mm+ lenses where wobble won't be noticeable
I use an EOS RP with the RF35mm for everything, no IBIS.
It's great for what I do.
90% of the time its filming 4k on a tripod.
If I need a wider shot I switch to 1080.
If I need to fill the frame with my subject I use macro.
And it works well handheld due to lens based IS.
And its super sharp and compact.
For walking shots I'm always on gimbal because IBIS looks terrible for that. For simple panning and tilting shots, it works well. However with this new panasonic gh6, from what I've been seeing, I think you could've pulled those walking shots off.
Yes, I have the XT4 and the IBIS Wobbling kills every footage when Iam walking. For static shots it's really helpfull. Of course I can use a Gimbal but I think Camera Companies are still not there. Maybe it's a Gimbal like the Ronin 4d, maybe it's electronic stabilization like you have in 360 Cameras or Gopro/DJI Action? IBIS for videography is not the solution...for sure.
Can i turn the IBIS of willd shoting in R5 15-35 F2.8 RF? Then it will be witout wobells?
AFAIK only both or none. You can’t use the lens IS without the IBIS
Overall, people need to learn how to properly film handheld and learn that WEIGHT on a camera rig is important.
Why did you shoot everything so wide? Should've done more telephoto where ibis can be crucial
Yes I do. Thanks for coming to my TED talk
To me it’s a clear win for the IBIS. 1st for walking I use a gimbal 2nd you should have tested a longer focal length 50mm+ where the non IBIS shakes like hell and IBIS gives great results without wobble. 3rd IBIS also shines on manual non stabilized lenses. 4th even if you don’t shoot stills the R5c is a hybrid camera and the lack of IBIS is a big big downside. YMMV
Completely agree. And you can always turn off the IBIS when you need to turn it off. Seems such kind of topics, always have some part of manipulativeness
I you use native RF lenses with IS on the C70, you'll get the best result. The electronic stabilisation in the camera is "talking" with the lens IS and gives an optimal result 👍
the biggest gain of ibis is in the long narrow lenses, not wide ones. When I'm on the wide lenses I turn it off and use only digital IS or on IS at all and do it in the post.
We used it with 70mm in Switzerland too and it produced the same wobble unfortunately :/
@@damiencooper well I used it with 70-200 and 25-240 it was decent but usually replacing monopod not a gimbal
@@damiencooper But also for a hybrid system especially a 45 mpx one, IBIS is necessary and helps a lot regarding micro shakes that appear on larger sensors images. I still wish they released R6c instead, the 20mpx is less depended on ibis regarding photography. that would be real a7s3 killer.
@@TomislavMoze I agree!
Not sure if I missed it or not but do you have any type of electronic stabilization set? According to Canon one of the other reasons they didn't put in Ibis was because they felt like their electronics stabilization it's at the point where it's very good and doesn't require a very big crop anymore. I know we've seen electronic stabilization make some big jumps over the past few years with things like the GoPro and even phone cameras.
No EIS was used. I used it a lot in the past but when you’re static and the subject loves you also get that wobble. I use it if I have to but usually prefer it without
@@damiencooper sounds good thanks for the reply. Wonder if the electronic stabilization is any different in the r5c
If I want stable shots I’ll just have a dedicated camera on a gimbal at all times. The other cameras are either handheld shots that does not require much walking or other cameras on tripods.
100% with you. To most commercial shoots I bring the C70 constantly on a gimbal and the C300III handheld
Dude you have an obsession with the wobble. I'm curious if any customer has ever mentioned it to you in their footage without anyone bringing attention to it. It's just not noticeable in most footage, especially on a mobile device. I keep forgetting about it until people mention it. Lol
awesome video..
C70 is fine for me! Thanks for sharing! Love it! Cheers DimiZ
No IBIS! That was one of the fundamentals I learned watching your vids when I began my journey into video and I stick with it! 🤘
good choice in my opinion...
@@damiencooper totally!!! Handheld looks great and if it’s needs to be smooth, that’s why god made gimbals!😂
You can always turn off the IBIS when you need to turn it off. Seems such kind of topics, always have some part of manipulativeness.
Remember this from since gh5s time 🙂. When they decided to position the lack of IBIS as an advantage and characteristic of a real professional movie camera. Bringing to forse this opinion to the point of absurdity, that IBIS is almost evil in fact 😂. And this is when the gh5 became a revolution thanks to IBIS including, at the time when this option was not available anywhere except Olympus).
Continuing such kind of logic, you can be convinced that even the most flawless autofocus can be harmful in many shooting scenarios. But that's not the reason to discredit its availability in camera, isn't it?
Many people were hoping for this camera to fill both roles of video and stills. In still shooting the IBIS is often the difference between a sharp shot at lower ISO and shutter speeds and a blurring one. So While it improves the video capabilities with the cooling etc. it detracts from its role as a still camera. It is not a good substitute for both roles. Each one. serves a specific purpose. A good second camera for a hybrid shooter with lots of money. JMHO
What are the drawbacks of a1?
Other than price and non flipping screen?
I was very excited about the r5c,
The 12 stops vs 14 stops DR, IBIS, Currently the best stills camera, A1 seems to be the better all round hybrid, if you can pay the price.
So you CAN'T turn off the IBIS on the R5? [or R5C?] - I really liked it without the stabilization
yes you can turn off ibis on the R5 and R6. either by the lens or from menu system.
Ich bin mit der Sensor plus software stabilisation auf meine olympus em 10 ziemlich zufrieden mit wesentlich weniger wobble
ja ich glaube andere Hersteller sind da teils besser unterwegs
@@damiencooper hab selber keine canon Erfahrung aber für mich schaut der wobble so aus wie die Perspektive stabilisation im resolve die erzeugt auch so komische Wellen im Bild
ibis needs to be use with with longer focal lenth and you good
That warping on the IBIS at the edges is awful! It looks like warp stabiliser done badly
IBIS on the R5 is great … until it ruins your footage, so totally agree on your conclusions. I won’t miss having ruined footage on the R5C.
IBIS all day. If you don't want to use it just turn it off and the wobble in the Rs is on wide angles lenses, I believe 35mm and wider
You should have tried with the electronic stabilisation too… sometimes it works pretty well :)
I wanted to actually... But it was so cold in Switzerland. I totally forgot about it :D
@@damiencooper I do a lot of doc/editorial work with the R6 and sigma 24/1.4. When I have to follow someone walking I try to walk in sync with him/her, so that the camera shakes when the subject move from one step to another... It works suprisingly well because the eye of the viewer falls spontaneously on the human figure and not on what happens on the edge of the frame. Did I explain it in an understandable way? Because English is not my mothertongue :P
As a prosumer I prefer no IBIS as that wobble looks terrible and I would scrap those shots as you mentioned.
If I want stable footage I'll just use a gimbal or an easy rig.
However in a perfect world I'd like ibis with the ability to turn it off completely so I have options.
Try using a more medium to tele lens lol hahaha, TBH with a footage like that you don't really need to shoot at 16/15mm go 24mm or 35mm is more flattering anyways
EOS! Yes man!!!!
your dance move is actually kind of good...
Now I'm testing a C70 to understand if is possibile to use it or the new R5 C as run & gun instead of my BMPCC 6K Pro so I am looking for autofocus and stabilization too. I suppose in your test you didn't use electronic image stabilization so my question is still without an answer. What do you think about?
R5 looks awesome
What wasn't clear was if you used electronic image stabilization on the c70
I didn't, sorry. I wanted to make a test with that as well but honestly forgot about it
@@damiencooper okay no prob, just wasn't sure. Thanks man. I have the R5 and I'm considering the C70 so would love to see how the electronic IBIS fares. I'd say the IBIS works in certain situations. I actually had IBIS on a slider and it did some very weird stuff to the image.
@@darlingtonjonesimagery9247 I filmed a 19 episode handheld doc series with the EIS. It’s on CZcams. Go check it out czcams.com/video/Bo6TZRkhYGY/video.html
Does lens IS also create wobble, and if yes, does lens IS AND IBIS create more wobble than IS in only lens OR camera?
I was like - super excited to see that horse. :P Don't worry girl, you're not alone.
HAHAHA :D. Damnit Franco didn't turn to film the horse!
I will be on the Team both :-) as soon as the R5 C will be here. If I undersand you right on a Gimbal a C70 is better tnan a R5, if yes hen the R5 C will be the one on the gimbal :-)
Define better.. Better DR but worse AF...
@@damiencooper i mean with better more usable stabilisation, including the AF the DR and sharp videos, so that you can use the produced material with the camera and the Gimbal.
If you use new RF 24-70 2.8 IS and R5, the result would be even better! 8 stops!
IBIS for 200mm +
r5 at 24 it seems that mountain has had one drink too much.
Well explained thanks for that, basically hopefully everyone is clear the IBIS is for photography not filming... it makes the atmosphere when there is a natural movement... one thing because it happens so often on CZcams and that's not a woman thing, however showing a woman from behind ends up above the buttocks or total witnessing that would be mega
If the C70 is on a tripod. would ibis even come into play?
I'll keep my R5.
I cannot stand the wobble. Not one bit. I is is more for pictures than for video to be honest. Or for really slow horizontal panning video.
I dont buy anything without ibis. Canon ibis is a wobbly mess tough. Panasonic is great with ibis.
With the R5, there was obviously wobble, and with the C70 there was obviously shake. From these two "bads", I'd prefer the least worse, and - in my opinion - that was the R5 wobble in the corners. I have the R5, and most of the time love the IBIS. Oh, and if I think that IBIS may ruin a take, then I simply switch it off. Yet you cannot switch something on or off which is totally missing, if you get my point ;)
I would have understood the IBIS removal in the R5 C if Canon would have traded it for something else instead, like in-body ND filter mount. Sadly, there is nothing there as a compensation losss :(
tldr version; I love the IBIS wobble :) * lol
I hear you, but I think your conclusion is to learn to move with the camera in a way that minimizes the need for (any kind of) stabilization.... and for you that is second nature, and supported by being in shape for slinging that weight in a smooth way. I'm a photo pro, but a vid newb, and when I hand held an indoor walk through event recently on my r5 w ibis, FCP still wanted a massive crop to digitally "auto" stabilize it. That makes me want to shoot far wider than I want to see in processed footage. As a non video pro, the ibis raw footage looks far preferable even w wobble, because I only notice that in the background, which is not where I want the viewer to be focusing anyway.... for me, wobble is preferable to shakes if I have to have one of the two. THIS vid was eye opening, because I didn't realize that the C70 footage would get wobble via digital processing. I didn't know that was even a thing, but that actually reinforces my preference for ibis, because wobble seems unavoidable unless you can walk like Damien and Belle.
That’s of course understandable. And the fact that’s it’s on the outsides is a fair point. I just feel you can always recreate the effects in post. But never go back
Just get a Ronin RS2. 🤷🏻♂️
I think the biggest point you are missing is that Canon has touted this as a hybrid camera, and they removed IBIS from the stills side, which is borderline sinful for a stills camera. On top of that, IBIS still is good for video in certain applications. Why not just leave it in, so we can disable it, and enable Electronic stabilization like the r3? You can’t use a gimbal everywhere. It’s a compromise no matter how you look at it.
Ibis on the R5 looks realy bad and not natural. For any professional payed gig this is a no no!
Couple points that I think are important here:
1. Focal length- IBIS is trash at wide focal lengths, but if you're shooting in the 35-50 range, I think it's MUCH better than no IBIS.
2. I'd be interested to see R5 with IBIS vs R5 without IBIS, instead of comparing different cameras. The C70 has a bit more weight to it, so that helps smooth it out some. R5C won't have the same size as the C70 to be able to offset the lack of IBIS in the same way. I'd be interested to see how it'll come out, given this.
Will def do once my R5C arrives
The situations you tested
It is better to use gimbal
The most important and most used shots
Like close-ups or long shots with very limited camera movement, which are always used in documentary filmmaking as well as in advertising projects or music videos.
This is a situation where Ibis is very efficient
It shines perfectly because it speeds up your work
R5 Ibis for paid work - no no
Just turn off IBIS on R5 lol
My mother never complained. Just saying.
:D:D:D
Canon ibs is just wrong.
Dude if u shoot 35mm u don’t get any wobbles. Love the r6/r5 ibis
I hate canon wobble. That's one thing sony seems to do better. Sony also removes ibis in their cinema line. I kinda feel like its a mistake. Give people the option.
Is it possible to turn off IBS completely? And whether the WOBEL was caused by IBS or the wide angle.
I want to buy an R5 and that's right what keeps me from buying and debating whether to buy the SONY A7 iv
Or R6 instead of what I look like. (I do not currently have a make or camera but I am not a beginning photographer)
You can turn off Ibis by either turning off the IS on the lens or going into the menu option. Works for non IS lenses too.