Memorizing Music: The Four Memories
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 07. 2017
- improvplanet.thinkific.com/
"The Four Pillars of Piano Technique" is now a full 32-lesson course.
Enroll in at the link above.
Steinway Artist John Mortensen reveals staggering truths about the realities of memorizing at the piano. - Hudba
New courses on piano technique and historical improvisation now enrolling at Improv Planet:
The Four Pillars of Piano Technique
: improvplanet.thinkific.com/courses/the-four-pillars-of-piano-technique
Tone Production at the Piano
: improvplanet.thinkific.com/courses/tone-production-at-the-piano
How to Practice
: improvplanet.thinkific.com/courses/how-to-practice
The Piano Foundations Series
: improvplanet.thinkific.com/bundles/piano-foundations
And more: improvplanet.thinkific.com/
Aurthur Rubenstien - wrote a book about playing the piano. His suggestion for memorization, that I took to heart, was to practice on many different pianos and places before you perform the piece. He believed that some of our memory would be in the surroundings you practice at. Suddenly you can't remember a passage on the piano might be as simple as the picture on the wall you stare at when practicing is not in front of you when you perform it. Take your memory away from depending on your surroundings. Love this piano sight.
That sounds like context-dependent memory, and he is right about us being able to remember things better in the same place we learned it. Like remembering math stuff in school rather than at home. Great advice!
That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing... will definitely employ this method.
Wow thanks , could you give me this book name? I wanna read!
I totally agree !!!!! This is why I often have memory slips when I practice in another piano after practicing in the same one. I often change pianos from now on in practice sessions.
Now I know why I cant play piano the moment I sit in front of some new one. 😂 happens all the time especially when someone says play something.
I was very lucky that when I was in music school, my teacher taught her students how to memorize using these four techniques. She also gave us time on the piano we were going to perform on. Not only that, during rehearsals, her students would sit in the audience and be disruptive while one of us was playing through the piece. We had to play through sudden loud noises, objects thrown on stage, and loud talking. Anywhere we broke concentration was where we knew our memory was weak.
She also had us start playing a piece in different places. She would then randomly say stop. We'd have to put our handa on our lap. Then when she'd said continue, we had to start exactly where we left off. We sometimes sat a minute or more before she'd say continue. It was tough, but our performances were solid.
So what happens when you are unable to continue where you left off? What’s the solution?
@@loveispatient0808
Practice
I was taught a good memory assist which works very well is having places to "hang your hat." Be able to start the piece from many different spots, not just from beginning. That way should something happen you have a place to be rescued to. That's not what you want to happen but it gives comfort knowing that and makes the piece much more secure being able to start it from many points.
that is a good point
Absolutely correct. If you start at the end and work back, doing a sensible chunk at a time, you automatically have lots of key points to play from. Learning only from the beginning completely doesn't work for me - certain failure!
I played Beethoven's pathetique Sonata in a concert and I had a memory slip in the 3rd movement. Instead of stopping, I ended up improvising that entire section. I almost created a stampede. That was my last concert playing classical. I realized I make a living having memory slips in performance as a jazz pianist.
mad lad
I think that's the least of the memory challenges in this piece
Ive done that before with with the 1st movement in the Bb major/Eb major part.
Jazz > Beethoven!
Ooh, I learned some of the memory stuff in AP psychology.
[ 3:30 ] The “intellectual memory” is called “semantic memory,” and is part of declarative memory (what you can describe or declare), which is a form of long-term memory. It is all about facts, concepts, and general knowledge.
[ 4:20 ] “Aural memory” is called “echoic memory.”
[ 4:36 ] “Motor memory” or muscle memory is called “procedural memory,” and it is a form of long-term memory. (This is actually processed in a different part of your brain: the Cerebellum, as opposed to the Hippocampus. Both for long-term memories.)
[ 4:55 ] “Visual memory” is called “iconic memory.”
I must note that Iconic and Echoic memory (sensory memory) are precursors to short-term memory, and get processed into long-term memories.
Dr. Mortensen described these pretty well, the main differences are the names.
[ 5:47 and on ] What is being described in the rest of the video sounds like what is called “depth of processing.” This is about how well the information you are learning will be remembered. It is a step in how short-term memories change into long-term memories.
There is “shallow processing,” which essentially means you will have a shallow memory or make a basic understanding of something.
And there is “deep processing,” which essentially means you will have/make a deeper understanding/memory of something.
It is not that procedural memory is better or worse than the other forms, but rather how well you have learned something. The more connections that are made, the better something is learned. (It is better to rely on more than one form of memory.) Dr. Mortensen described many great ways of achieving this for piano pieces.
Memory is also dependent, to varying degrees, on your state (mood) and the context (environment). Being in a different state and/or context can hinder your recall of what you have learned. Which is why playing on stage with lots of anxiety can mess you up.
Some other things to note:
“Cramming” is not effective learning. (Look up “maintenance rehearsal” if interested)
Do not be distracted when learning, or you might not learn it properly. This is called an “encoding failure”.
Learning something but temporarily forgetting it can be caused by many things: distractions, interference (similar, wrong memory that get in the way), messing up your cues, bad cues, and more. This is called a “retrieval failure.”
The way that “aural memory” and “visual memory” were described made me think of “mental images.” These are mental pictures/representations of stored sensory experiences. This relates more to thought than to memory though.
Overall, the lessons and advice Dr. Mortensen gave were great, and the explanations weren’t far off.
Memory and learning are parts of Cognitive Psychology, for those interested.
(Also, I got a 5 on the AP exam if anyone was wondering)
Thank you for making this video, it was great!
Great points here, Jade! Shall check it out when I have some solid time to digest everything that you have said!
Especially appreciated the psychology points relating to music.
Thank you so much!
😃
how lovely
2❤
Utterly Totally Completely Brilliant Brilliant Brilliant!
I love every word.
I learned to memorize around 2008 when I was 40. I've enjoyed every moment of it!
Before that I thought I couldn't do it. Having learned to do it successfully, I intended to write a comprehensive book on the subject in 2021 to help as many musicians as possible. I had the whole thing clear in my head, ready to type up.
Then the lockdowns ended and I never got the chance to complete the project.
Now you've done a lot of it for me, all in a CZcams comment.
My favourite one ever! 😄
Thanks. Of course! (To you and Dr Mortensen).
@jadejohnson524
I love that post!
I'm just left wondering how you managed to memorise all that information!
🤪
I'm NOT a "Serious" pianist, just an old retired 'lounge lizard'/hobbiest. And I truly freak in a recital setting! But two techniques I've found helpful: besides practicing in my own home on my own piano, I go to a local music school (as a member) and use their practice rooms and their stage pianos (w/no audience of course); even found an old upright Steinway at a local golf club that I play when the clubhouse isn't busy! Any DIFFERENT practice setting helps me. Also, I have friends come over for 'cocktails' while I play - as long as they aren't watching me as in a recital and I'm just sort of background music, I don't get nervous and can play for hours! Costs me a bottle or two of wine, but it reduces the 'nerves' that interfere with my memorization efforts. Probably none of the above work for a serious concert pianist, but thought I'd throw in a 'low-end' idea or two. Thanks for your Teachings!
Nothing "low-end" about it. Creating no-threat, positive performance experiences is a smart strategy.
nothing more true than that. I had practised one piece on my piano hundreds of times, and when I tried it on a public piano, I forgot even the most basic notes
as a matter of fact a key to optimize your training is to change things every time. place/time/piano/public/ light... just moving the piano already helps.
I've been there!
@@chgian77 I know exactly what you mean! I thought I was the only one with this problem.
Contents:
0. Introduction [0:00]
1. Memorizing for performance [2:40]
2. Four type of memories [3:15]
3. Intellectual memory [3:30]
4. Aural Memory [4:20]
5. Motor Memory [4:36]
6. Visual Memory [4:55]
7. Interaction btw. IMA [5:45]
8. Motor memory trap [6:30]
9. Defective intellectual memory [8:14]
10. Write difficult passages out of memory [8:55]
11. Key / chord consciousness [10:22]
12. Make a fake book version [11:37]
13. Play preposterously slow [12:38]
14. Strong memorization: I.M. leads [14:00]
15. Importance of improvisation [14:55]
16. Practical approach and conclusion [16:31]
Thank you for saving my time.
Thank you. All brilliantly said. A very complex topic which you made understandable.
I wish i had a teacher like him when i was younger
You just nailed it: "Chunking" is the key to learn anything in life. You don’t eat an elephant in one day, just one bite at a time. LOL.
Identifying chunks (Chords, Scales, Rhythm, etc.) in a piece of music can stop us from been robots reading music, and help us train our ears, so we can transpose later the same music to a different key, or even better, use those chucks in improvisation (that’s what flamenco guitar players do)… Our motor skills (technique) of course has to be first.
"You don’t eat an elephant in one day, just one bite at a time. LOL."
I'll be quoting you on that.
We mostly rely on muscle and aural memory. And what happens when you play on a different piano? It SOUNDS and FEELS different! So AUTOMATICALLY, your memory in concerts is going to be messed with.
Thank you for the wonderful video!
Yes, this is true. In fact, an understanding of behavioral theory makes this quite logical. Every aspect of the setting in which we repeatedly practice or rehearse has the potential of becoming a conditioned stimulus. Not with equal strength, of course, but more than one would imagine. Since I'm an amateur, I've let my skills at memorization languish. For years I played the same Mozart sonata, as if from memory--but it only worked if the score was on the stand. Perhaps I glanced at it more than I was aware of, but it was still a tough nut to crack when I finally decided to truly memorize the piece.
then think in a concert pipe organist....when every instrument is different....
@@rafaelferreyra8224 Oh yeah, it's a nightmare lol
The acoustics are different, you never know if there are certain problems with the instrument that you're unaware of, the Dulciana stop on the digital organ you have at home sounds different than the one you're using at this random church... big yikes
Amateurs practice til they get it right, pro's practice til they can't get it wrong.
Really great. I think the first year, an adult student like me should be taught these higher level principles. If you learn right, early, you're better off in the long run.
One of my favorite YT channels.
Maybe I will go back to college(!)
I’m not a total fan of that quote because you ‘can’t’ can’t get it wrong. Sometimes even the greatest pianists do so actually it’s better to think of it as they practice until they get it right ‘nearly every time’, because that’s just realistically how it is regardless who you are.
@@joeyblogsyThis quote is about establishing consistency and not just stopping after getting it right once. You repeat correctly it several times. Then, you come back the next day and do it again...
Absolutely brilliant! When catching us playing “on automatic”, my conservatory teacher would call us on it and scoff: “Vous ne faites pas de la musique, vous faites du griffonnage!” (“You’re not playing music, you are absent-mindedly doodling”). I wish he would have had your insights to explain why “staying connected at all times” also trains an impeccable -and peaceful- sense of visceral, well-anchored “knowing”. I am re-learning to play the piano, and your advice is immensely valuable. Thank you, so much , for this very thoughtful guidance.
So you studied in France, which school, if you don’t mind, as I am rather impressed with the the French music institutions?😀
I haven't even been trained at the piano, but largely investigating by myself and using online resources (and books before the internet became a thing), but years ago I experienced that horrible trauma of forgetting notes which landed in a complete train wreck. I was performing with a vocalist at a wedding reception and halfway through the tune I started to forget notes and was unable to recover; the singer finished the song 'A Capella'. This all happened in front of 300+ guests. I could hardly show my face for the rest of the evening, just hiding in any corner I could find, the distress of it was so painful and, as a result, I stopped performing publicly for about 5 years. When I finally built up the courage to perform again I made sure I knew the pieces I played, back to front, inside out, upside down, every nook and cranny. Eventually I trained myself to not take slip ups too seriously and 'that' attitude, if anything, enabled me to just continue even if I had memory lapses and not feel bad about it. I also developed the strategy of practicing on several different pianos in different locations, and also on any public pianos I could find, even if I didn't feel like playing in front of people, so that the act of playing and 'making mistakes' in front of people who might be listening became less daunting.
I finally accepted it was ok to not be a robot. Of course, these were not professional performances so I imagine that since the expectations are so much higher for a professional, the devastation can be much more profound for the performer who experiences this loss of memory. That experience of the concert pianist you related at the beginning brought back those feelings for me, I shudder to think. I felt that performer's pain. I've been away from the piano for a few years now and plan to go back when I'm ready to study it more seriously, addressing all the gaps in my playing. I've put this on my playlist, since you've some really interesting tips. Thank you.
What would you advise someone who can play well(intermediate level) but lacks a solid foundation on music theory? Most colleges won't allow you just take
What advice would you give to someone who can play classical piano music on the intermediate level, but lacks a good foundation in music therory? Most places(colleges) do not allow you to take just one music therory class without enrolling the rest of the other music classes as a music major. Please advise. Thank you.
Good points TinyMaths! I am a classical guitar player, and I began to think that I was kidding myself when I had freezes, absences etc on stage. I wasn't really practicing to remember, it was just getting the muscle movements right. I found that the best way was to record yourself, so you had the 'intimidating' presence of a microphone, or even a metronome beat although not strictly musical won't let you get away with hesitation, and point out areas of vagueness in the comfort of your own space
geez, all that horror because you didn't want to bring paper with you. hint: bring sheet music and you will never have such an easily avoidable problem. rote memorizing is for those who feel the need to brag. music instructors who require memorization should be fired.
I'm sorry that happened to you, that really sucks. I can just imagine that happening to me. I think I would be embarrassed, upset & an emotionally mess. Getting back on stage would be difficult.
I like everything you are saying.
"What is the overall harmonic map"
Bingo!
I call this Gestalt Learnibg.
I have always needed to know the overall meaning,, pattern, picture of knowledge!
Now I will ficus/ add, "harmony" unto my music/piano learning.
From the beginning!
That is I will be learning the Semantics of the Music language,.
That will automatically give me a memory phrase, sentence to make sense of the whole piece (story)
Brilliant.
Thank you.
I am 43. I’ve spent my life (since 11 years old) tinkering and avoiding serious study. I absolutely love playing the piano (mostly improv and own compositions). I’ve just finished conducting Les Miserables for a week Burgess Hill and it has inspired me to work on the craft - which then led me to find you on here, and I have to say I am well chuffed to have your wisdom and insight by my side as I start on my new musical journey. Thank you.
Breaking the motor memory is of the sort when you walk stairs and start thinking about the moves. You'll stumble, almost guaranteed.
Can't gush enough over finding this artist-sage. The many nuances and intricacies of music need explication and Mortensen covers the ground with facility. Thanks for posting.
Sir, you are a wonderful & truly skillful teacher !!
I have been hearing the the usual 'more practice' discourse from most other Pianists for getting rid of anxiety.. But you just nailed it.
Thanks & more power to you !!
You articulated exactly what I've been discovering, now that I am going back to learn to play music "by ear" rather than just from notation. I used to have extreme anxiety when I played in any situation outside of my isolated practice (stemming from an incident of "freezing" in a recital as a very young child), but I've started to realize that strengthening my visual (keyboard, not particularly notation), theoretical, auditory, and muscle memory simultaneously has dramatically reduced the stress. I feel as though I have many more strategies to fall back on as I am playing. I am also not playing classical right now, so maybe it also has to do with feeling that I can 'wing' it, and improvise, which was not encouraged when I was playing classical music. I always had the feeling that playing classical music induced more tension, since there seemed to be a particular standard or expectation I felt I had to meet. "Mistakes" no longer derail me as they used to. In any event, I am relieved to know I'm not the only one whose anxiety has seriously impeded my piano playing.
Extremely important topic! One of my favourites to discuss.
This is exacly how my teacher teaches me lately. Write down and play chords, undertand the structure, play only melody, play the chords along with the melody to hear the colours of it. For polyphony play every voice separately, play them in pairs, sing one and play another, play two and sing the third, play all and accentuate one of them. She told me the similar story from the time she was a college student her teacher asked her to write down a piece and how it was. I didn't try this yet, but i will. Muscle memory also failed me and I remember this feeling of helplessness when I remember the music in my aural memory, but I have no idea what to play. So i'm very motivated with this methods.
Although when the piece becomes more ready and I work on tempo, I have to say, muscle memory attempts to take over and 'intellectual' memory fades. So I have to review the chord structure and check what I actually play from time to time.
Another thing that is our standard method to learn the piece it to play like this: last measure few times, then two last measures few times, 3 last measures, etc... so then the closer it is to the end, the more repetitions it had and easier it is to play. It helps a lot not to stumble on every measure when learning a piece.
Your last paragraph re learning back from the end: so totally true. I usually memorize easily now, but if it's not working - if it feels like the old days before I learned to memorize - I almost always find that I forgot to work back from the end. 🙂
Some of these suggestions apply equally well to learning a foreign language. You can sit in a class and parrot the teacher, go home and do grammar exercises, but unless you put yourself *within* the language concept, you'll never "get" it. When I was about 12 and about to emigrate to the United States, I would write essays in English with whatever vocabulary I had at my disposal, occasionally looking up words in the dictionary. I was translating from another language, of course, and the grammar, spelling and syntax were probably all wrong, but it forced me to *think* in the target language, which is a totally different set of brain/learning skill than listening to a teacher and filling in the blanks on specific questions directed at a given lesson. Similarly, if you visit a foreign country, trying to negotiate your way around in the target language without a translator is helpful.
As a beginning piano player, I hope some of these encoding mechanisms of the brain will help me as I endeavor to coordinate all those moving parts in a musical piece.
This is a really helpful video. My college professors never taught me how to memorize music. Maybe that was because I was able to do it regardless, but I never thought through music in the way that you've described it. An aside - I read somewhere that Rachmaninov practiced his own music so slowly that people who knew him and knew it didn't recognize it. No doubt he understood the principles that you teach.
Love this video! Dealing with, and building on these memory techniqes is so important. I can play guitar, read, and converse at the same time, until someone ask..."How do you do that?". Instant brain disruption over muscle memory. Back to the ear...and mental privacy. Thank You for this. Shared! 😀👍
I have a very strong visual memory (I memorize every finger playing every note). I am not sure why anyone would memorize the visuals of the score instead of the visuals of the piano. the way I memorize is by: 1) playing a passage with the score 10 times separate hands, 10 times hands together2) playing a passage without the score 10 times while looking at my hands 3) playing the phrase in my head, first separate hands and then hands together (imagining every finger playing every note)After doing that for a week for first small sections and then bigger sections, my memory is very strong. Then way that I can tell if I have memorized a piece is when I can imagine my hands playing the whole piece away from the piano (that is imagining imagining every finger playing every note and the sound of it). This is also a good method because you can practice the piece and stengthen your memory of it where ever you are. You can also do this directly from the score (but first you need to decide the fingerlings) you just imagine playing the piece in very very small sections, repeat the sections a lot and then increase the section size
You might be interested in a practice technique Glenn Gould used called "tapping."
I was wondering, what do you advise to memorize a piece (for a beginner)? How do you do it practically? Do you memorize directly when learning or after a period of time? I like how nick piano explained how he does it. Are their different approches? I have the same problem as Kyle Hohn if i have enough time i can recall all the notes but not at speed. Maybe i do not visualize and listen enough. I'm only a (late) beginner. I don't yet have the music knowledge to view the greater structure like you mention, chord progression and change of key inside the piece.
Agree, visual memory is so important. Especially in those moments when you get lost in performance and have to improvise. If there is a solid visual memory of the piece and its sections, you can know “ok now I pick up the piece right here...at measure blah blah or on the section I entitled “A1”. You will be able to visualize where you are in the piece.. helps me
Maybe it was an autocorrect issue, but whatever, your use of "fingerlings" instead of "fingering" just made my day! Actually, some days it feels like my fingers are potatoes.
Lucky you!! I can't visualize in images at all!!
I've been needing to see this for about 40 years! Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant and thanks so much.
Thanks for putting these videos out Doc. This is great stuff!
The material you're sharing in this video and other ones is so organized and structured that I think it should be in books, thank you so much !!
Great teaching. I can't believe nobody told me this stuff earlier. I was in the process of getting aware of this stuff by first learning to play pieces wihout piano, with memory and visulisation. Theory and harmony mastery is the trick.
Thanks a lot!
You're an amaaaazzing music teacher - and you've nailed the problems most of us (non-professionals) are faced with when we perform in front of an audience. Separate work IS essential on all four memories. This is a great lesson for everyone!
Thank you John, for clarifying the different memories..this has been very helpful and accurate from my experience. You are a wonderful teacher on this subject..and an incredible piano player. I have NO knowledge of music theory and do not read music...thus I rely exclusively on aural memory/ ear, playing alone, and not on stage..and..recordings that mark my progression in mastering any piece I am working on. When I get up to speed with the song I am playing, it is "on record" for me to enjoy or share with friends. I do know what key I am playing in so will do that exercise you suggested about recalling the chord progression in the passage, to increase the mental interaction. Thanks again for this great lesson.
this video (and others) is pure gold, thank you!!
Thank you! Even as a jazz vocalist, I found this fascinating and helpful.
MORE on memorizing from YOU. Just found you and what a treasure trove!!! Thank you.
You are truly the hero for everything you taught.
Thanks.
Great lesson! I'm currently studying classical guitar, and my teacher likes to say that memory is the product of knowing something so well from many different ways. Your 4 different categories are a good way to distill these concepts. I think that score studying(fingerings w/ hands alone and theory), singing everything, slow practice, and "mentalization"(practicing everything in your mind) are the most efficient way to get aural, intellectual, and motor skills where they need to be. I would even say that visual memory only matters when you have actually internalized everything prior to that; at that point you are really searching for a personal meaning, or feeling, in the music than the actual written work.
Thank you for uploading such a helpful video. I've personally experienced a breakdown of my motor memory on stage, when I played perfectly in the practice room. Though I recovered my footing by restarting the passage, it was still terribly embarrassing and shameful. I'll strive to improve my intellectual memory of performance pieces before I play them on stage, thanks again.
EXCELLENT.
There are lots of videos by musicians re memorising but this really makes the most sense. Advanced pianists have probably mastered this skill way back when they were first learning and cannot help someone just starting to learn the skill.
This was such a beautiful video, thanks! I'm not even a real pianist, but thinking about these issues will help me evaluate my own stage/performance considerations. Thank you thank you!
Thank you sir, for a no- nonsense, brilliant analysis of how the mind works when the hands are playing.
Nowadays we can also rely on technology to help us with memory issues. I remember when I started playing professionally and I had to play at music festivals, there were hundreds of songs and not enough time to practice and go through the details, I recorded some parts to help me remember the song and a truck load of improvisation. Congratulations, keep on the nice work.
Im an older student , your tutorials are so informative and make so much sense , please keep doing what you are doing providing a valuable resource that makes me as well as countless others I'm sure want to learn more . Dave Kerr UK
This is brilliant!! I've been searching far and wide for an explanation of the neurological aspects of memorization. I rely almost solely on "motor memory" and if I get stuck in the middle of a song, I have no idea what I'm supposed to play, even though I can play the piece through from beginning to end. These tips on reinforcing memorization with intellectual and visual methods are quite useful and requisite. Thanks for posting this video John.
What a video!! Thank you! I felt you were describing me through out the entire video! Incredible advice! I have suffered immensely with stage fright all my life and I think you have led me to an incredible part of the cure!!! I will put these techniques into practice! May God continue to bless you and enrich you with wisdom!
Me too- stage fright all my life!!😀😀😀
You can say that again, "Trauma & a sick thing to have a memory slip while performing on stage, & so embarrassing too." Preparation, preparation, preparation is definitely key along with what you describe: intellectual, aural, visual & motor. Really good stuff you talk about here! So accurate about those disruptions to the motor/muscle memory once you get on stage, & feeling unsafe or out of your comfort zone. Man, you really know your stuff! Wow! It sounds like one has to have quite a bit of theory to do the "fake book" version.
What a wonderful teacher. Thanks so much Dr Mortensen....
Thank you , such a great analyses. The main reason I gave up learning the piano and follow the visual arts (which I love too) was a trauma experience I had in front of the audience when I was a child. I was totally based on motor memory in memorizing the score. After 30 years I decided to start learning piano again and I want to overcome this fear. I hope your understanding and teaching will help. It has already helped me to understand what had happened.
I feel I was not trained to perform. I was trained to play for myself and the teacher. Then I am thrown out on stage. Yes, recording does help. This becomes a self discovery for me, self acceptance. I will no longer beat up on myself. I accept what is. We are human, we make mistakes. This is part of a long process.
That's it, exactly. Take small steps and small risks.
Mr Mortensen,
I am an intermediate Spanish Classical guitarist. Like to volunteer at carehomes playing my repertoire. I am guilty as charger for relying on probably about 90% muscle memory and it has bit me many times. I cannot thank You enough for what you just shared in this video; it is priceless. I liked how you explain how and why the muscle memory fails. Will integrate these priceless tips into all the pieces I have learned and the pieces I will be learning.
With Humble Thanks and Appreciation,
Lawrence Leo
This makes great sense, unlike many piano videos. Intelligent and reasoned. Thank you.
Yes, Yes and YES! I am a singer (not a pianist), but it's still essential to know a piece in as many different ways as possible. Mnemonic devices are needed for lyrics in a language that you only know phonetically. Literal translations are useful, but sometimes words are archaic and are not found in current dictionaries. Writing things out in longhand (not typing) including empty measure counts, tricky intervals etc. is also tremendously helpful.
You are an amazing teacher & a wonderful pianist.
This is the best explanation I have seen on the subject of Music memorization so far. Peoples strengths for memory and recalling it vary, there is not a one size fits all, but this is how I am approaching it for my daughter, age11:
She was switched from studying ABRSM grades 5 piano to grade 5 Jazz Piano. In the Jazz piano exam she has to perform 3 pieces of which appx. 26 bars are to be improvised around chord progressions, (written as chord symbols), that change each 2, or 3 or 4 bars. Instead of just learning by heart the pupil must be able to understand the left hand chord's identity and follow their progressions. In the right hand they have to be able to think on the fly, harmonizing notes and rhythms that fit with the chord symbols. That forces them to analyze the intellectual construction of the music's written theme and of their own improvisations and thus become better able to analyze traditional fixed sheet music. She also has guitar lessons, (I like the way guitar sheet music has written chord symbols). She is in a choir and has learnt to sight sing well. She hears the sounds in her head just before she has to sing them, both for the main melody and also for the Alto counter melody that she mostly sings. That has helped her violin sight reading a great deal. With piano her strength is in playing by ear, having started learning at age 4, her fingers can just connect to the right place, (or sometimes within a semitone if not freshly heard), due to the sound/ keyboard map in her mind. She still has a long way to go yet and finds little time to practice each instrument with a total of 7 hours of music inc. lessons and performances per week, but the early start, combined with multi instrument study and including the Jazz theory that is immediately put to practical use, I believe will all help greatly with memorization of pieces when she gets to about age 14
Love it! Wonderful lecture! Agree on everything.
Very interesting! Thank you John!
I'm just starting out (again), I'm so glad I found this. Now I have a name for what's been troubling me about it all, the motor memory! It sucks! I'm having an AHA moment. Thank you so much.
You make great videos! They really come in handy! Thanks
Love your videos! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. :)
Extremely helpful analysis. Some pianists know this intuitively but spelling it out definitely helps those who have difficulty with playing from memory.
A lovely man, by the way.
Great insights from a great musician, thanks for sharing!
I've just come across this video, by chance, as you do. Like some people who have commented below, I'm here because I didn't understand why I couldn't translate my (very modest) performances from where I practice to playing infront of others (a stage isn't a remote possibility - yet). This video has made it clear to me what I need to do, and having watched the video I realise that if I ever want to perform successfully to others, then I have to commit in a way I never have before. I've never heard of "intellectual" memory until now, but interestingly, I have just started to identify which key I'm playing in (and I'm not talking about C!) and whether the minor key is harmonic, melodic or natural, so perhaps I have already taken the first step on a long journey. I find I can relate to this gentleman - I can see why several ex-students have commented about him the way they have. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and understanding.
That's amazingly insightful, and a really useful way to think about a whole range of musical issues. Not just how to make our performances 'bullet-proof', but also how we 'know' music as performers and as listeners.
I'm not at all in the same league of musicianship, genre or instrument, but this has sparked all sorts of ideas in me. I think the 'Four Memories' concept will be very useful in developing my performance, and my understanding of particular pieces of music and of what music is. Thank you.
Brilliant, it was not until I started playing jazz, that I really had to understand and hear the chord progressions and scales in my head. Jazz musicians have to know how to play in all the keys. John talks about thinking in chunks, I agree.
Food for thought there is only one scale the Chromatic 12 notes and over 24 deferent ways of playing it. The Jazz pianist Barry Harris, said classical piano players stopped improvising sometime ago. Jazz has made me realise that Bach was possibly the first great improvisor.
Colin Berry thankfully, it seems that we are beginning to do it again, thanks to people like this! Hopefully more and more teachers will begin teaching like this too!
This is such a helpful lesson. I had never considered that my habit of practice again and again from a score and eventually "memorizing" was the motor memory trap, until recently following a tip from another pianist, I tried "practicing" a score away from the keyboard. (Thank you for that by the way -- I encountered this pianist after watching another of your lessons on 10 habits successful pianists should have, one of which being to spend time sharing notes with other pianist peers and how they practice.) It came to me intuitively to start writing things out on manuscript paper, but even just the simple act of writing note names, what key I'm in, and starting to interact with the score intellectually changed how I felt at the piano. This is a new tip and I am still processing it, but already I relate to what you mention at ~9:30 about how as ridiculous as it sounds, writing out a score takes you to another level. I am glad to feel like I am being steered in a better direction. These are helpful videos and I'm glad I've discovered you -- I intend to keep watching more!
The motor memory trap held me back for 25 years, until I noticed that reliable concert pianists don't rely on it. Now, at the very least I know that it goes from Eb to C minor and back to Eb, or whatever, and then I wonder how it does it, and then I fill in more and more details, and eventually I'm the composer! - no longer merely auto-playing a string of notes. This has loads of benefits, particularly if you're accompanying.
As a self-taught pianist, your tips in memorizing helps me a lot sir. Thank you very much
Watched the video 2 years ago and watching it again now. I just realized a couple weeks ago that i visualize the score as an aid to help me with jumps and leaps like in mozart. I didnt even know i was doing it until my recent teacher asked me how i go about memorizing. But i had a memory slip the other day. Dispite thinking i knew all the notes thoroughly. The slip wasnt big enough to derail the piece but it surprized me.
Fantastic video sir as always!
Great advice! Putting it into practice will take attention and work.
John, this was a very good and helpful video and reading the comments of listeners really resonate with me also. There are some great tips for memorization here. Of course we all have a tough time once in awhile remembering, especially very complex passages. In my youth, I had to play in so many recitals and as a "shy" musician, I could barely breathe sometimes before getting up on the stage. I really don't know how I made it through without mistakes and actually managed some really good performances back then, but I had a nearly photographic memory and used to break the music into pieces and use special imagery that took me through it. Even though I compose and play today (and post on my channel), I still am quite shy in a public setting to this day. When someone points at a piano and wants me to play it in a group setting, I just want to disappear.....perhaps a combination of the physical issues I have because I cannot play many complex selections of yesteryear (nerve damage and tendinitis and often requires a lot of warm up to avoid indiscriminately "freezing" fingers) and the fact that I am not a natural showoff. I normally don't like to be the center of attention at all, but kind of a duality as I do love to share the emotions of my soul musically and a great form of self-therapy. I often think of playing a small bistro or resort someday after my corporate gig is over, but my largest stumbling block is my shyness, followed by the physical issues of course. If these hands hold up, I really would like to spread my wings a bit. Thanks John for your wonderful tips and this great channel! ~Jackie
I've only watched 1:15 and I am already nodding. I like how you communicate about this. It's nice to know I'm not the only one!
Just finished! MY GOSH WHY DIDN'T I GET THIS LECTURE WHEN I WAS 14!!!. It's vindicating to get confirmation of so much of what I had to figure out on my own!
7:33, so true! This video is excellent all the way around. Thank you so much for posting:)
I find writing the music out is absolutely essential and after that, it is playing the piece in many different situations and standard of instruments with at least one person listening. Videoing oneself is also helpful. Can you do it in one take? Now I will add an extra step of narration whilst listening. Excellent and useful video, thx.
great video! as all your others! i call the playing very slowly the "chopped and screwed" test. if i can't play a piece at half tempo i don't really know it......another tip is to memorize (intellectually and otherwise) backwards starting at the end of the piece and working backwards....that has made a big difference for me in securing memory of a piece
Is it just me or are you the best piano teacher on CZcams
these ideas are of great interest as they relate to my performance. I definitely see sound. Passages of music appear as blocks and percentages in my inner mind.
With non-classical songs learned from music, I find I've memorized most of it by the lyrics -which is not helpful when trying to explain to a small orchestra where we are in a score. Glen Gould was notorious for humming as he played ...I understand this. LoL :)
Recently I became acutely aware that the pitch of the notes in my mind is different from those I sing.
Motor/visual/intellectual memory -I once had to sync a video to a complicated piano piece because the timecode had been lost. This was the beginning of my knowledge that I expect to hear a certain sound according to the physical location of my hands.
After a 6 month gig where I used a digital piano -and subsequently the digital transposition feature, I discovered in which keys I sing songs I've played for decades -when I went back to acoustic piano I was hamstrung ...
For six months I had been playing the songs in the keys I always had but because the sound for most was lowered by 4 semitones I had reset the baseline in my musical memory. Does that make sense? From that I learned that my ear needs to "warm up" just as much as my hands.
I was taught in college that appealing to as many senses as possible is the best way to memorize music. So for example, aurally would mean to listen to the piece by several different pianists over and over. Visually....one trick I was taught was to copy the piece of music, cut it up measure by measure, mix up the pieces, and put it back together....touch, repeated practice, especially with the same fingering over and over...these are just a few examples.
piano1500 I like the cut it up measure by measure approach. That sounds brilliant!
I know a very fine conservatory-trained professional classical pianist who is a superstar at intellectual memory. I once heard him practice a highly contrapuntal piece by playing every other measure with his hands and just THINKING through the measures he wasn't playing, but still in tempo. That's measure 1 played, measure 2 silent and in tempo, measure 3 played, etc. Or the other way around starting with measure 1 silent and in tempo, measure 2 played, etc. He would land on exactly the right notes each time he began to play a measure aloud after thinking his way through the previous measure because he had a crystal clear mental knowledge of what every voice in the counterpoint was doing. Amazing to watch! He played the whole piece through twice, once with measure 1 played, etc., and once with measure 1 silent, etc. That evening at the public recital he gave, he was completely relaxed and enjoying the music along with the audience when he played that piece (and everything else he played) with no fear of losing his place. It's that kind of memorization that allows the masters to play with such feeling and spontaneity. They have the notes down cold and are free to focus on interpretation and feeling in the moment.
Impressive. And a very high price which few are willing to pay.
@@cedarvillemusic His living depends on not messing up on stage during a piano concerto with a major orchestra, so he has a lot of incentive to get it right. :-) It's been a privilege and a real learning experience for me to get to hear him practice and to get to talk music with him at dinner from time to time over the years, or to attend the occasional master class. Boy would I love to be able to take lessons from him!
What you fail to mention is what your pianist was doing with his hands during the gaps in his performance. Did he return them to his lap, leave them where they left off playing, or “ghost play” the silent measures. If the last, then his performance may not have been quite as impressive as you think. He would have been going through exactly the same motions as during a normal performance, but without sounding half the measures. I.e. his memory of the piece would have been pretty much the same as with his usual performance of it. If however, he did not ghost the silent notes, he would have had to rely on more than muscle memory to find the right hand positions for the measures that he sounded. An excellent exercise I think. Try this: use a random number generator app to generate a bar, at random, of a piece you think you know well. Can you instantly place your fingers in the right position to play the notes? Of course this involves the use of sheet music. To replicate on a small scale what your pianist friend did, you would have another person play a measure at random, and you would have to replicate it fluently from memory.
Thank you very much! - for your time, for sharing, for explanation of one of fundamental things - intelectual memory vs. movement memory. I am just hobby pianist and I have to change the approach...
This is so interesting! I always wondered how the process of memorizing works for professional pianists in particular since the pieces are more complex and the stakes are higher because of the public and their expectations of perfection. I still think, though, that the greatest performers have supernatural abilities XD
Awesome lesson! I'm a primarily self-taught (1 year of lessons in 6th grade - I'm 43 now) piano player of intermediate skill (I'd say) and I learned violin from a very young age by Suzuki method (heavy ear training). I consider violin to still be my primary instrument. Because of my extensive ear training and diminished focus on sight reading, I've never had trouble memorizing music for either instrument as I practically had no choice due to my poor sight reading ability. You just put words to concepts I've felt but never tried to express. I play piano, particularly classical music, almost exclusively by muscle memory after initially "learning" from a combination of sheet music and ear (I can read, just slowly and poorly). I once provided piano accompaniment to my son's violin performance for competition and noted that I should memorize several "jumping in points" (otherwise, it's just one long continuous stream-of-consciousness muscle memory thing) throughout the song just in case I lost my place during the performance. That's a really scary place to be since I can't rely on the sheet music to help me out in real-time. Other than the "jumping in points" idea, I never considered any other means of making sure I really knew a song. It's funny because my father's also a primarily self-taught piano player who plays by ear, exclusively Jazz though, and the last time he accompanied me while I played violin, he lost it so badly in a live performance that he stopped mid-performance, never recovered and then swore he'd never play in front of an audience again. That was about 10 years ago and he hasn't. What you're teaching is sort of simple but profound for people like me and my dad! Thank you!
yes this is the best i love the way you talk about it all, your clearly the best on you tube, thank you for you wise words :)
Woaw! This is called teaching. Any student has a lot of very very good tips. Most of all, it also demystifies stage memory, which can happen not only on stage but also as you play for people standing behind you and wanting to enjoy a show! This can disturb the memory of many of us.
5 years late on this. This is a most excellent video.
Thank you. All brilliantly said. A very complex topic which you made understandable.
Thank you so much this. I wish I knew this when I was an aspiring soloist.
I know this is an old video, but literally this has been the story of my musical life. So much stress.
Once you get a solid foundation - harmonic structure etc - and loads and loads of different useful associations, the stress goes in my experience. It becomes pure pleasure. If EVER you learn or play a string of notes, hoping it'll work out, you've done it wrong IMO! (The mere thought terrifies me still. I'm not going back there for anything). You should always be on a journey somewhere, and then somewhere else. Become the composer of the piece (compose the same piece as the original composer). Not only does that make your playing rock solid, it also engages / spell binds the audience.
And now I will look at your aerospace education channel for my daughter Emma - it's her thing!! 🙂
Excellent advice! - Thank you!
Nice channel! Glad I found you 😎👍🙏
Great explanation, useful details, recommended.
This guy is amazing. He has some much wisdom it is unreal!
I was waiting for you to say play it very slowly, that usually is what lets me know if motor has taken over!
You make me want to be better, thank you.
Great insights!
Mr Mortensen, this is the best insight I've encountered on concept of memorizing music. I came across the silent piano practice to strenghten the motor memory. The idea is to play the piece without pressing the keys (just touch them), or, on digital pianos, turn off the sound, and press the keys. One must visualize the the sound while attempting to "play" the piece. I've noticed that big part of the "motor memory trap" is dependence on hearing the sound. This type of practice, breaks this dependence. Have you tried anything like this? Appreciate your feedback.
Really great lesson!
This seems like strong advice, thank you.
Hello, I find this video fascinating. As an organist/pianist I have a dreadful memory for music; I need the dots! I do, however, see the need to be able to remember music. This I do find very difficult even though I can remember a dozen pages of words almost 'photo' recall. Thanks for posting this!
Knowing about the chords is very very important and helpfull. I play piano about one year and can play the whole English Suite II by my heart. I make about 5 mistakes during the whole peace. But I know which note is not right! Now I am working on the very fast tempo. But I know the peace completely in my head.
Thanks! Almost everything you say could go for other instruments too. Very helpful.