‘The Word Asian Does Not Appear One Time In Your Brief’: Alito Grills Lawyer On Affirmative Action
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- čas přidán 30. 10. 2022
- On Monday, The Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Students for Fair Admissions v. University of North Carolina.
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It's amazing. The guy is absolutely saying 'we are giving advantageous consideration to some people, based on their race, but that has nothing to do with giving people advantageous consideration based on race.'
😂😂 percicesly
his boss was Kamala Harris probably
Yep, he is a true moron. This is the "substance" of all "liberal" articles. They are "liberated" from common sense.
Lawyers are known for saying nothing in a variety of ways.
How do you know some of them are lying? When their lips are moving.
@@hyperhoo1736 lol. I've noticed she is great at talking in circles..
Judge: "So you're saying race in and of itself has no effect on admission at North Carolina."
Defense: "Haha, of course not your honor."
Judge: "So you wouldn't object to an opinion from this court ruling that you may not consider race."
Defense: *surprised Pikachu face*
Lol, brilliant judge
"Brilliant" or just plain ol' common sense, the F-ing games lawyers play.
The defense was saying no, as in that’s not what he’s saying
Alito gets right to the point while the attorney tries to tap dance.
Liberals live in the world they want it to be, not the world as it is.
In their world, they can admit as many underqualified blacks into college and nobody is hurt by it. Obviously that is not the case in the real world, as not being admitted into a top university can cost a student millions in lost future earnings
Even leftist lawyers can't answer a simple question because they truly don't believe in there hearts and souls what lies they chose to give there lives over too.
Imagine being Asian and supporting affirmative action. No wonder why people treat them like trash.
Dancers are people, too.
Or beat around the bush
How many times can the counsel contradict himself?
"UNC doesn't discriminate." ..."UNC has a holistic approach to admissions regarding race."
"Race is NOT a factor in UNC's admissions." ..."PLEASE don't make it illegal for us to use race as a basis for admission."
“It’s not happening and it’s a good thing that it’s happening” is a common refrain among the left.
I would be far more understanding if he just admitted that a plus to one race is a negative to other races. How does he spend 4 minutes talking in circles and we still aren't sure that's clear in his head.
Where is the contradiction? He said the claim doesn't say anything about discrimination against Asians. I.e. no claim is made that UNC discriminated based on race. If they aren't making the case that there is discrimination then this is pointless
@@semitope Because the prodding is getting to a very specific point. Making white only bathrooms is discriminatory even if it is race+ the logic that admissions isn't a zero-sum game is asinine. Therefore race based preferential treatment is unconstitutional on its face.
The court knows it, the counsel knows it, you know it.
This lawyer is clearly not too bright; he must be a benefactor of affirmative action in some capacity. It's clear any moron can become a lawyer now, especially in leftist states.
It's amazing just refusing to acknowledge what's painfully obvious has become the standard defense for radical modern ideologies
Nothing radical with what they are doing. It’s time to move on with your outdated radical thinking
@@The_North0 the practice of blatent racial discrimination is pretty radical
Edit: dude straight deleted the post I was responding to lol
Yep, once you claim that a man can be a woman, why not claim that racist discrimination is not racist discrimination. You've already crossed a line where reality doesn't matter at all, and anything can be what you say it is.
@@PutItAway101 2 + 2 = 5
@@PutItAway101 Perfectly said
Alito is right. The other guy is gaslighting.
That attorney walked straight into Alito’s trap. Brilliant.😂
that attorney sounded like maybe he was a lawyer.
Times like this I'm grateful to have NOT wasted a fortune on a college degree.
tbf that was a hard position to justify logically from the beginning
The hidden trap is that Asians are genetically the smartist "race" in the world. America's best mathmaticains...all top 5 are asian.
Proof Asians are the smartest race. Time to push out the lazy and unworthy whites. PROOF MADE IN COURT!
As an Asian, I approve of judge Alito.
Well, good for you. Do you vote Democrat?
@@joeanonymous1834this is a much better comment. The problem with minorities is that they feel they need to vote Dem just because they r a minority. Even tho, the Dems have done jack shit for Asians. Even worse, the Dems essentially ranked which minority is more important & which is not. Time to wake up people
Bob Jones sounds very Asian indeed.
Translation:
"It has nothing to do with race, your honor."
"Then how do you decide?"
"Purely by skin color. But it has NOTHING to do with race."
Race should not be a factor in admission to college. Diversity does not justify discrimination.
I am Asian American and appreciate Justice Alito calling out the nonsense coming from UNC's counsel. The word "Asian" does not appear one time in the brief because it's an obvious mathematical certainty that discrimination favoring one race will disfavor another race in a zero sum competition. UNC's counsel does his best to argue 2 + 2 does not equal 4. Fact is, Asian American cultures generally prioritizes education more than other cultures and that shows up in the statistics as higher avg grades, test scores, and participation in extracurricular activities. I also think it's worth noting that there isn't a single Asian on the Supreme Court nor has an Asian even been in the conversation for the Court despite Asian overrepresentation in the nation's top universities and law schools.
You said one thing wrong. Asians are not overrepresented. They are actually underrepresented because they are discriminated against. Be careful to not use leftist language like "overrepresented." It just weakens your argument.
Yea but their lawyers can’t say “yes we give students of races we prefer an advantage, disadvantaging other students of other races” because then they could be called racist and lose more than the court case. They are fighting for their reputation
Well said!
irony: the asian using mathematics
Truth is to lefties as kryptonite is to Superman.
Judge Alito is a brilliant Judge.
Thomas and Alito are the only two Justices who always vote on purely constitutional grounds 🇺🇸
That's why the Left hates them
@@dereksbooks I haven't seen a whole lot of Justice Barrett so do you think she is constitutional or not this isn't a criticism of your comment this is a serious question
@@black69camaro2344 the only two Justices who agreed to look at election fraud allegations in 2020 were Alito and Thomas. Everyone else was a coward and flat out refused even to hear the case. There are plenty of other instances where ACB and Trump's other "picks" (they were Mitch McConnell picks) voted against clearly constitutionally sound cases.
@@dereksbooks damn that's not really that good news
The poor attorney can't effectively defend the use of preferential scoring of applicants without admitting that it's discriminatory. The gymnastics he engaged in deserve a gold medal.
Gymnastics. Gold medal. I see what you did there.
It's not gymnastics. What the judge is saying is stupid. You can't eliminate a whole aspect of the person. Race is by default a part of their application. I think what the lawyer is trying to say it's that race is never a sole consideration or the deciding factor and the people bringing the case didn't argue discrimination based on race or present evidence of it.
@@semitope If it factors in the equation in any form or amount, then it is by DEFINITION an "aspect"> It should never by default be ANY part of the consideration. To do so is banned in the constitution.
@@semitope it's illegal for it to be any part of the consideration. (banned in the constitution)
@@semitope If the college says "no" to an application because the applicant is asian where they would have otherwise said "yes" if the applicant was black then that is very much race being the deciding factor.
This really isn’t complicated. If you use race as a consideration for choosing someone, your discriminating on the basis of race, even if it’s not the sole consideration. If race plays ANY role in determining if someone is either accepted or not, then its racial discrimination, and it’s not acceptable.
"come on man" as democrats are the proven party of racist filth and will make more and more lame excuses for their proven racist "quotas", "goals", "preferences", "set asides".....democrats have always been racist filth and continue such to this day
How do you think that will work? They should ignore every aspect of the application that might be linked to the person's race? What else should they ignore?
There is a difference between the long history of real racism with discrimination and suppression of minorites (especially black people) and considering a person's background and experiences. People are attempting to use the progress against racism that they are reluctantly a part of to suppress
Yes it's really quite simple academics is the only metric that you use when considering if they are qualified if you can't see the person if all you have in front of you is a piece of paper with their test scores their achievements you could pick any one of them at random and tell if that person is qualified to be there once you meet the person it doesn't matter if they are white black Asian or even Martian
@@semitope yep, ignore race. It’s not hard.
@@semitope So long as there's affirmative action, meritocracy seizes to exist
Any time you give preference to 1 group you are discriminating against another. This was the entire meaning behind I want to be judged by the content of my Character not the color of my skin.
100% accurate
beautifully stated. judge someone buy character,work and accomplishments not skin color MLK.
You people don't even know your own history or whitewash it on purpose you did not want Blacks or asians in certain areas this entire argument is based on white people's racism and exclusion, then you act like you don't know what's going on hilarious.
@@herbtapp3031 1st Asians are the ones who started this lawsuit. So your argument is baseless on its face. If you don't think black people can achieve without help from the white man. That makes you the racist. Grow us and start thinking for yourself. I know it's hard but it's necessary.
@@jamesmcd71 I know we can achieve you act like the past has no effect on the future, white people burned down entire black towns after the Civil War, just to hold them down. segregation was not enforced by black people; white people wrote made into law and enforced those laws to hold back my people. Then want to say it had no bearing on anything now. Create this mess then want to claim it caused no lasting harm.
Discriminating or favoritism due to one's race is wrong!
This lying pos lawyer!
Not according to many Democrats.
No, it’s not wrong. You misunderstood their intentions.
@@The_North0 wrong is wrong. In this case it's called fairness. Equal opportunity.
@@die-eggocamaney6967 but you don’t understand. If you apply the concept of fairness in a fair way, then it’s wrong and unfair. However, if you apply it unfairly but label it as fair and equitable, then all is right and well.
"We don't discriminate against Asians, we discriminate FOR everyone else"
Google and it's comrades in the far left media are already demonizing Justices Alito and Thomas as "right wing, unethical and corrupt"
The point this lawyer is making must be so nuanced and sophisticated that no one in the entire universe can understand it, not least of all a Supreme Court Justice!
They don't condone discrimination against Asians, they simply engage in it.
This attorney got destroyed by Alito. Like a cat batting a mouse around before eating it.
More people need to learn what I have learned through life. Your best successes are the ones you earned through hard work.
"come on man" as for democrats their successes are accomplished by lies, cheating, stealing from others using such means as racist discrimination in college admissions using racist "quotas", "goals", "set asides" "preferences"
That's why this case is so important though. Hard workers are missing out on opportunities due to those less deserving having it served up to them on a silver platter.
@@kevinheath7588 Not true at all. Only 21% of millionaires get any inheritance at all. 16% inherited more than $100k. And only 3% inherited over $1 million. Look up "The national study of millionaires". Most millionaires are self-made and didn't "rip off" anyone
@@kevinheath7588 That was real nice of Henry Ford's father to give him the blueprint for the Model T
I am an asian american. I did well in school and am now a pharmacist. My academic achievements have nothing to do with my skin color. They have everything to do with how hard i studied, how my parents raised me and what type of culture i grew up in.
Bravo ! 👏
This is America. Merit doesn't mean as much as you think it should. Real sad but it's the honest truth. I really hope that changes.
I think the argument on the other side is that the reason that black or Hispanic individuals underperform also has nothing to do with their skin color, but rather how their parents raised them and what type of culture they grew up in (implying that said parents and culture are inferior). It manages to combine unfairness with a patronizing and insulting attitude toward those it purports to promote.
@@ariochiv Sadly, we just don't have the courage to admit that, or take action on it. We continue to kick the can down the road with our two, canned, dysfunctional solutions. Their cultures, and parents, are in fact inferior in the greater culture we live in, in the U.S. The schools and environments we relegate them to produce under-performing individuals, in the U.S. culture. What would happen if we thrust these individuals, or families, into predominantly Asian cultures, where the discipline and work-ethic is the primary driver? The solutions lie in huge deviations from what we presently present as viable solutions. It has nothing to do with the color of a persons skin, it is the culture that they were raised in that holds them back, that we continue to enable.
But if another minority has none of the virtues you learned, Harvard and UNC let them in first, right? These universities have tarnished their reputations a lot here
When I filed for discrimination against an employer as an Asian/American my Lawyer told me that I can't win because I'm not in the Protected Class. I said I'm a U.S Army Veteran, what is considered a Protected Class? He said you have to be African American or Hispanic, those are the current Protected Class at the moment. Asian are not yet considered a Protected Class. So he didn't want to represent me.
Same here as a white male, sick of seeing openly racist discrimination where they proudly say no "white males allowed to apply", there needs to be a punishment for all these ppl who've been pushing this racist ideology
That is sooo fu%ked up. Asians are way lower on the population scale compared to AF and HIspanics and are discriminated all the time. I gurss the minority class has their own minority class which dont get minority class protection becuase they are the minorities minority.
Yet Asians have more rights than both of those groups in the US today. Lol just stop!
It's amazing. I think EVERYONE should be made aware of what are the Protected Classes of race gender etc.. its like its a secret. There should be no "protected classes"... everyone should be given good protection regardless of race gender or creed
Your lawyer should be reported to the bar for being racist
I live in California. My parents paid taxes here. Heck I paid taxes working at KFC when I was only 14 to survive. When I graduated high school with a 3.25 GPA I knew I had no chance at a good University of California system because I was Asian. WTF was that shiat. Let me tell you my brothers and sisters what that did to the millions of Asian Americans just like me… We said fock it and found our own ways to be successful. Now 30 years later the majority of us turned Republican or Independent mistrusting the government we supported. If you’re talking about grassroots well that’s how you destroy it from the roots like a mold that spreads.
😊👏👏👍
I lived in California all my life and will back up your story 100%!
Ok I am Black worked at a Graveyard in the summer and Wendy's year-round starting at 15 so why were you excluded from a university when you have a 3.25 GPA? I call bull on your story. If your republican what is the party doing to improve your situation besides teaching, you to be a terrorist if you think this form of government is a mold that needs to be destroyed. plus I know at 14-15 years old you get all your tax money back because your underage I filed taxes, my dad taught me.
@@herbtapp3031 he was excluded from a top university because he's not black
California has made it going to college is controlled by high school teachers, as the state did away with SAT. The next step is to have race-based grading, I guarantee it.
"Your honor, I do want to make clear..." that my job is to make absolutely sure that I make nothing clear.
Alito is correct... lawyer just talking doublespeak...
lawyer is spewing manure
Yep
Doublespeak?
And here I thought he was just talking nonsense.
The lawyer contradicts in an attempt to argue the unarguable. Based solely on skin color is discriminatory and it is hard to defend. It should be based on the applicant as a whole: academic, family and economic situations and not skin color.
The quickest and easiest way to eliminate all oh this is. Remove from every form and application that the government and businesses have asking what race you are. Replace it with the questions are you an American Citizen? Do you speak English?
I like it!!!! Can we make it happen? Probably not.
@@Jon-br8co I also would like to change that if you wish to tell them what nationality you are everyone when answer it saying I'm an AMERICAN Italian, I am an AMERICAN Spanish, I am AMERICAN Chinese, etc. You say AMERICAN first then your nationality.
Justice Alito just ran circles around this yo-yo. He doesn't even know what he's arguing for. Alito: "Is race a factor or not?" Attorney: "Yes, uh, no, uh, well, sort of..."
He didn't run circles around anyone. The lawyer clearly said the accusations do not apply. The supreme court already prohibited what alito said.
That is funny that's for sure what's not funny is people who think that it's actually Fair
@@semitope He did run circles. 😉
@@semitope How so? explain please.
@@semitope "The lawyer said it's not true so it's not true"
You people are blatantly racist and it's obvious that you're blatantly racist because your greatest defense for why you aren't racist is because a lawyer said so.
He 100% contradicted himself at the end. He says there is a plus factor, but no bonus points.
he just contradicted himself Alito checked him... then let him move himself into checkmate
Google and it's comrades in the far left media are already demonizing Justices Alito and Thomas as "right wing, unethical and corrupt"
But without Affirmative Action how will someone like Karine Jean-Pierre achieve a high-profile lucrative position?
Or Jackson Brown who is now a justice on this court!
One of the most decorated that has ever sat on the bench yet she needed affirmative action to even be noticed! If that doesn’t show why it’s needed I don’t know what else would!
60% of resources for afro Americans are used by non afro Americans pretending to be afro Americans! They are also over distribution of these resources and intentionally shield them from the intended audience. Most afro Americans don’t even know these benefits exist but we have Jean Pierre and others passing the info in their communities like gospel! Something definitely needs to be done about this and immigrants should not be over resources meant for native or afro Americans
Mic drop.
@@citizencoy4393Who KBJ who can't even answer what a woman is? Have you looked at the Congressional hearings?
Basically a case of wanting to eat your cake and have it too. The lawyer is saying race only considered as part of a “holistic” package therefore it’s not considered as a singular factor. Of course how an administrator can considered the race of an applicant *strictly* within the holistic context of an applicant without otherwise considering it as a part of the applicant’s attributes is completely unprovable. Magically, once you add enough attributes to an applicant, those attributes stop mattering individually. However, if you remove an attribute (e.g. race) from an applicant, somehow it starts to matter immediately.
“We don’t care about race! - lawyer
“Well then you would Have no objection to us eliminating race from the admissions process entirely then correct?” - Alito
“Wait did I say that race doesn’t matter? Let me retract !!l”
-Lawyer
Google and it's comrades in the far left media are already demonizing Justices Alito and Thomas as "right wing, unethical and corrupt"
End racism. End Affirmative Action.
I love it when those who defend the indefensible are exposed.
There’s only one race and yet some races don’t have to pass the SAT for a scholarship.
Basketball Americans.
There's only one race. That is the human race.
@@drillsergeant5338 so race should not be considered for jobs or education. Good talk.
Yt women do not play basketball?! Wth are u on about? 😂 racist while not even knowing who number one beneficiary of Affirmative action is! Thank u for proving WHY affirmative action is NEEDED! Bc without it u fools would rest in racism and stupidity avoiding any facts or data based on ur anti black bias alone!
@@drillsergeant5338 Humans are a species, not a race.
Diversity of thought not diversity of color
Justice Alito's pretty good. 🇺🇲
VOTE COMMON-SENSE!
This judge is brilliant! Eliminate the Box then!
It's as if Alito is having a "Who's on first?" conversation with this lawyer.
"I looked around and I didn't see anything!" "Must not be happening."
"Yes your honor 10+10 does equal 20".
"No your honor 20 opportunities minus 1 opportunity, minus another opportunity, does not only equal 18 opportunities because there is a double negative. It equals 20 opportunities!"
-from the mind of a Harvard Lawyer
Ok, so why are parents obsessed with sending their kids to Harvard?
@@general_electrics I would send myself to Harvard if it worked out! That Harvard Lawyer is making that argument to a majority of other Harvard Lawyers! and 9 of the Last 13 justices attended Harvard. It is the ultimate in we need some affirmative action in our Judicial system. Every "Liberal" Justice in the 40 years attended Harvard.
The lawyer either doesn't understand "zero-sum" or just doesn't get arithmetic
But... but.. it's holistic!
When I heard the term "holistic process" in college admission, it basically means they do whatever they want. Suffice to say that the admission officers are playing god. They think they are "holy"........ No kidding.
Absolutely outrageous. How did this man pass the bar exam?
lol... that is exactly how he passed. lol.
To be fair his legal services have been rendered to basically defend what is an indefensible position. I don't think the weakness of the arguments he's expected to defend is an accurate indication of his legal bonafides.
He’s making money cut him slack🎃
@@FamilyManMoving not true. He is the deputy solicitor general for the state of North Carolina
@@FamilyManMoving That’s the reason they didn’t hire an attorney. They are a state university and have government resources at their disposal
Affirmative Action is going down next year, and then Section 230 will fall. It will be glorious!
I had two sons apply to UNC in 2019. Twin boys, both white. They were both in the top 10 of their high school class. Both were denied admission to UNC. OK fine. They had a classmate, who is black and a female, who was in the top 30 of the same high school class. She was admitted and given a large scholarship. Both families live in the same town, went to the same school, and have similar middle class financial positions. Maybe this is just coincidental, or maybe this is empirical evidence for the case against UNC.
Sorry about what happened to your sons. I went through this same BS as an Asian American applicant to universities a decade ago. Thankfully it seems that my children will not have to put up with this systemic racism as it was just nullified by the Supreme Court.
Maybe the best circus of the week. I would hope that the UNC attorneys are not UNC graduates.
🤦UNC's attorney is actually claiming that a "plus" does not really entail a plus because the pluses get washed up, sanitized and legally laundered (based on precedent) under a "holistic admissions plan" that looks at the "whole applicant".
The line of questioning by the conservative Justices during argument was amazing. Alito's 'zero-sum' and race analogy was interesting for sure.
Google and it's comrades in the far left media are already demonizing Justices Alito and Thomas as "right wing, unethical and corrupt"
These attorneys are saying….”when the hell are Jackson and sotomayer going to get to question us???”
North Carolina has gone “Woke” so fast my head spun off.
I live just across the NC/SC border and enjoyed our neighboring state for its friendliness ,beauty, and home town values.
Now, it just feels oppressive and dark.
East coast libtard half backers are infesting N.C. They vote for the same politician types who turned their old home into a cesspool they fled from. Makes no sense.
Alito is brilliant. The lawyer tried to parse the impact of the policy.
Discrimination against Asian Americans is wrong. Unless a University does it.
Nailed it. The defense agrees with limited advantage for some groups of applicants. But at the same time says it has no affect. Evidently individual opportunities are less important than the macro ( biased) outcome desired.
That lawyer is talking out his yingyang and Judge Alito, and everyone else, knows it! Lawyers who try to talk in circles should lose automatically.
It's an ugly sight. Isn't it incredible that this so called argumentation makes it all the way to the Supreme Court. Think if all the layers of administration and if government that are endorsing and defending. To plus up one race is to minus one all others.
I’ve listened to the arguments from the lawyers in front of Thomas, Alito & Coney-Barrett. These three have the lawyers trapped inside their world of cognitive dissonance.
@@pat5882Google and it's comrades in the far left media are already demonizing Justices Alito and Thomas as "right wing, unethical and corrupt"
Honestly I feel for this lawyer, he has an impossible task, and it’s clear he realizes the absurdity of what he’s saying
"Discrimination against Asian people is wrong, BUT-"
I remember when applying to biology research internships. So many of them said that they didn't want a white man. I didn't know how many races there were until they tried to list literally everyone except me. Have I faced discrimination? Yes, yes I have.
Google and it's comrades in the far left media are already demonizing Justices Alito and Thomas as "right wing, unethical and corrupt"
To be fair, the application should not ask about the student’s race and gender. Each applicant should get a number so the admission officer can not infer the race from the name. They should only review the academic credentials, recommendation letters, awards, extracurricular activities.
This is how they do it in the Menuhin violin competition. Contestants from around the world submit their audition tapes and judges never know the race, country, and gender of the applicant.
The problem isn't anyone looking at a Black or Hispanic person and denying them entry due to their race. The problem is that not enough of them qualify on their own merits to get into specific colleges that tend to require higher qualifications...like Harvard, or Duke, etc... So they want to be able to discriminate against Whites, Jews and Asians, to reserve some spots for Blacks and Hispanics. If they couldn't see the race, and had to just go on the merits, they wouldn't be able to discriminate on Whites, Asians and Jews.
Considering socio economic background is crucial to the admissions process. If you were from an economically disadvantaged background and did not have access to the kind of education that average Americans did, that consideration needs to be included. If that discrimination was due to government policy of the past (re: slavery), that needs to be considered as well. I think you should watch the lecture by Michael sandel on the need for affirmative action. His entire lecture series on justice is also available on CZcams and is highly recommended.
@@masterofmucus I’m a first generation immigrant from China. In 1980s or 90s, each student could have currency exchange for the max of $1000 USD. They (including me) get jobs on campus. Others have multiple jobs to sleep 4-5 hours a day. Then, you can get a decent job after graduation. Many other Chinese didn’t get a chance to go to school in US. They own hair parlor, laundromat, restaurants. Most prioritize the education for the kids, so the next generation can go to prestigious schools. My daughter told me a story of how a poor girl got into a top 30 university by completing all the SAT books available in the local library. It is not the income but the strong motivation of the child and family support to bring the success. When I was little, my parents never said no to my request to buy books though there was restrictions on other spending. My parents didn’t graduate from elementary school, but I got my master’s, one of my brothers got Ph.D, the other graduated from top 5 university in China. Affirmative action might be needed for one generation, but certainly not forever.
You will still be judging race, though indirectly. Ironically enough, that was the case made FOR AA when it was first instituted. There is exactly no way to hide race as a factor when you look at extracurricular activities and community group affiliations or even essays most of the time. There is a cultural gap in our society which is VERY evident when you look at those things, even without a name, race, or even hometown. The opportunity mismatch also comes into play here as well, because historically black communities will not have the same organizational and economic support that wealthier white communities have so the applications won't even be close to the same.
Add to that little backdoors universities have provided such as scholarships for BS sports no one plays but have a high financial barrier of entry to play (lacrosse, rowing, field hockey, water polo etc) then the table is STRONGLY slanted towards applicants from well established affluent communities.
Why don't we have diversity quotas in professional and collegiate sports especially basketball, football, track and field?
Why are u all against reparations if this is your stance against race systems in the US? Sounds like there’s a common denominator here …these systems of gauging wouldn’t be necessary if ppl like u didn’t straddle the fence when it comes to racism in this country.
@@citizencoy4393 that’s not the stance. People are pointing out the holes in your silly reparations AA stance. These are the flaws in your argument, not theirs.
@@citizencoy4393 NO ONE owes you anything.
Amazingly convoluted argument by the lawyer for UNC!
How this case made it to the supreme court boggles the mind.
When arguing against the conservative judges, the lawyers for the universities display nothing but blatant cognitive dissonance. The conservative judges playbook for the ensnarement of this group of lawyers is beyond brilliant.
Google and it's comrades in the far left media are already demonizing Justices Alito and Thomas as "right wing, unethical and corrupt"
Alito is a badass
That lawyer is full of s**t.
It's the age of the internet. Why not put all classes online and whoever makes the top grades gets the degree? No more admissions process. The reason is clear... they want to protect the Establishment. They're the most discriminatory organization ever created.
You don’t want an internet engineer or doctor. But they can be good for prerequisites like calculus and chemistry that are necessary later in a degree. (Social degrees are useless and out of the question entirely)
As someone who has taught mostly at a university considered to be a top tier school, I can confirm the continuing destruction of academia. We have moved consistently from a place demanding discipline, academic preparation for class meetings. assessment of learning to incredibly expensive places where the overwhelming majority of students spent time on co-curricular activities but resist any effort at all academically (I do not speak of the STEM (sciences, technology, engineering, and math programs, from the most astute companies now recruit exclusively, and I think most accounting majors have to work hard in their accounting classes). At many elite universities now, the cost (room, board, tuition, books, etc.) of a bachelor’s degree is precariously close or over $80,000 per year; however, parents are paying for partying, easy grades, and little development academically or morally. THE EXCEPTION: I stayed in higher education my last 5 years (longer than I should have) only because of my Asian students. Even those arriving from China with great programs on their devices that enabled them to read materials written exclusively in English and just beginning to hone English skills succeeded beyond belief. Do you know how they did? First, the average American student cannot do simple word problems in algebra; Chineses and other Asian students were, as expected, far superior in mathematical skill. Second, almost without exception (the exception would be some of the super-rich Chinese students) my Chinese students completed all required reading (as I said, often using translator programs to assist), the homework assigned, and studied diligently for all exams. We have always known how undergraduate students hate it when someone who has raised her children or a returning student who has been in the military is in their classes. They call them “curve busters.” Why? Well, these mature students do not spend all their time playing, they came to a quality university to get an education not “be given a degree” signifying little. They work, they prepare, and their diligence proves you need not be genius level to do extraordinary work (if you WORK). We have become very “retail” oriented; we in academia are tuition driven and need paying customers. Hence, unless the rare Harvard with its billions upon billions in endowment, we pander to attract happy, paying customers. We do that even more to attract the better minority candidates who still come poorly prepared and needing assistance. I TAUGHT BOTH QUANTITATIVE CLASSES AND LAW CLASSES. WHAT SURPRISED ME MOST WAS THE WAY ASIAN students (EVEN CHINESE STUDENTS COMING DIRECTLY FROM CHINA) outperformed non-Asian students from the USA in LAW classes. They were studying law that is handled almost totally differently than in China, yet they still out-performed traditional American students. In my last two years of teaching classes with around 30 students, the top 5 performers in advanced quantitative classes and in law classes were from mainland China or an another Asian country. If there was an exception, it was sometimes an exchange student from Eastern Europe or Germany. The fact that we are falling so far behind has great implications for America’s future. Thank God that some of these students remain in the USA for graduate school and end up taking jobs in academia and in high tech firms. In replacing those of us who were often from a college education that began in the 1960s, we have found that we cannot find Ph.D-holding young professors who are from the West unless they were raised here in an Asian family. Most of our new accounting ph.D-applicants, as well as virtually all in the quantitative reasoning fields are from Asia or Eastern Europe. Again, American students who have largely been doodled and allowed to loaf their way through secondary schools and college are simply unprepared for the rigors of most of our superior graduate schools.
I laughed when the lawyer said there was no mistreatment of Asians to be found, except for the ones who should have made the cut to get in but were sent rejection letters to open up a space for an affirmative action applicant. I would say that is grave harm to those people who should have made the cut but were turned away.
Can u tell me why u all are focusing on the 6% that r limited in access just as Asians and not the 70% of yt applicants that automatically get in w/o slots needing to be set aside Bc they are the desired demographic? I honestly want to understand how u all get to this logic. Why blame the 6% when even if they weren’t there asians would be restricted vs the 70%?
Google and it's comrades in the far left media are already demonizing Justices Alito and Thomas as "right wing, unethical and corrupt"
Glade we have a conservative Supreme Court!
He's trying to argue semantics with a supreme court judge. Did he really think that was gonna work??
Alito has been waiting to shred affirmative action since before he was on the bench. cases like this is exactly why there has been so much pressure to nominate and confirm activist justices
The max score on the SAT is 1600.
Take race completely out of the equation.
Anyone can achieve this with study, discipline, and hard work.
Now throw affirmative action into the equation.
Dontavious scored 1380, but add 200 points because he's black. That just makes it competitive for him against the white student who scored 1510.
They both studied hard, and were both disciplined in their work ethic.
How does this benefit Dontavious in a practical sense?
It doesn't. It actually sets him up for failure.
@@artandarchitecture6399 It's not a false assumption. It's a deliberate over representation of the reality of utilizing affirmative action and equity in determining scoring for SAT's and college entrance exams, as opposed to simple final scoring based on academic performance and achievement. Setting race aside, all things being equal, Dontavious did not score as highly as his fellow student. That's not in any way discriminatory, because ultimately, the test is the test, and no one should receive an "advantage" based on skin color.
I submit to you that affirmative action and equity based scoring is, in fact, racist and designed to make students believe that they are more academically proficient than they actually are. Thereby ultimately setting them up for failure.
People say that Whites and Asians can pay for help on the SATs.
I am Asian. No way were my parents paying for this. But I wanted to make something of myself.
So I went to the public library starting in the 8th grade and checked out SAT prep books. I did this for 4 years. It was free.
No one knew I was doing this.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
@@scottdoubleyou563 that's a really good point I read somewhere schools that require students to have a certain score let's say that score is 1300 if they cannot qualify above that they likely won't graduate now let's you take the example spoken and a student only had a 12 50 that student is close yes but now you add on the extra points because of race and now they're over it they think they're doing well because they got into the school but the classes are pretty darn hard and they start to fail out where does that leave them if they would have went to a school that did not need quite such a curriculum they would have been passing with high grades they would have done a lot better
@@gingerthetrailpup7223 What was the source of your motivation to study?
How does that set him up for failure a 1380 is a high score better than 80 percent of people who take sat. Stupid analogy.
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
George Orwell - Animal Farm.
Harvard's lawyers argument.
Bravo 👏
The Constitutional scholars, are showing themselves to be the true "Adults in the room"... Bless them all.
3:05 "We certainly believe that race within the context of an applicant may be considered as a plus factor." How can this not be damning?
BecAuse of America’s racist history and present. The educated in our country recognize cause and effect. Research shows cause and effect! Only idiots online running w emotions looking at the finish line only.
I wish they'd just pin them down with the follow-up "Which races can be considered a plus factor?"
Google and it's comrades in the far left media are already demonizing Justices Alito and Thomas as "right wing, unethical and corrupt"
How does a lawyer fumble this hard 💀
He's been charged with defending the indefensible. It's crazy affirmative action has lasted this long
@@EnvoyOfFabulousnessGoogle and it's comrades in the far left media are already demonizing Justices Alito and Thomas as "right wing, unethical and corrupt"
give this lawyer a trans-woman gold medal in mental gymnastics
This is the endgame of affirmative action.
Colleges are a racket. If a Harvard education was so good they would expand, increase enrollment and hire new instructors but they don’t because that would water down the prestige.
They hold BILLIONS in their coffers. It's a business and students are the product.
Best comment yet
@@mikehannan8932 Prestige is the product. If students were the product they would endeavor to increase enrollment and buy up other colleges and expand.
@@erikkovacs3097 I can agree with that. However , in the Ivy League , they don't have to raise the numbers. They can raise the price. Some of them have billions in reserve.
Thank God our Supreme Court has a sense of intellectual decency
I love how Alito makes the analogy of a head start in a race and doesn’t account the REAL HEAD START certain races of Americans get. The whole point of affirmative action is LITERALLY TO LEVEL OUT WHAT HES COMPLAINING ABOUT
Great, you can do so with affirmative action based on income / wealth and not based on race.
It's tuff being a democrat who has to lie when you're talking to someone who isn't stupid.
This lawyer fell into a logic trap
Didn't Harvard already won a similar case? The courts already set the precedence that it is ok to discriminate based on race as long as your skin tone is the "right" kind.
Attorney: "We are not giving points FOR race."
Judge: "But you're taking away points BECAUSE OF race if applicants are not members of a specific race."
A plus factor is a bonus point!
Alito kicks ass and will continue to kick ass
No, because he really misses the point.
Plus factor is, most definitely, the same thing as a tiebreaker. I even support affirmative action if this is all it is, a tiebreaker. Powell’s concurring opinion in , the SCOTUS’s baseline, says the Constitution allows no more than preference to break a tie!!!!!!!!!
The FACT of the matter, however, is that progressives and activists want quotas, not paltry sops like tiebreakers. I’ve been trying to tell you, EQUITY MEANS QUOTAS! EQUITY MEANS QUOTAS! It’s not more complicated than that.
And now we have permanent test-optional, not for dealing with the logistics of the pandemic, but FOR EQUITY’S SAKE!!!!!! It just couldn’t be more clear what these progressives and activists are up to. Don’t be in denial.
Yes. I believe that colleges should look at a variety of things if there needs to be a final division of equal candidates.
But not just race. Are they they first to go to college? Are they coming from a hard upbringing? What about beating the odds like loss of a parent / homeless?
But only when everything else has been equal.
@@gingerthetrailpup7223 Reality is that activists want and are getting quotas. Diversity means quotas, equity means quotas. Now there is test-optional. URMs don’t have to take the SAT. This is done to promote and achieve equity.
Obviously, they’re removing barriers in order to achieve equity. It’s very important then to point out that standardized testing is a completely level playing field. My son used entirely free prep, Khan Academy, and got a 1560 on the SAT, first time! The test is as much a test of determination and desire, helpful traits when it comes to succeeding in college, as basic math and reading comprehension.
There are inequalities still. Standardized testing isn’t one of them. So test-optional signals a full-on push for equity. And equity is synonymous with quotas.
This is looking pretty bad for the lawyers here….
Hearing how hard the UNC lawyer has to try to dance around giving a straightforward answer should tell you all you need to know.
2:15 Alito: "You're saying race in and of itself has no effect at UNC"
Lawyer: Absolutely not your honor
Alito: Great, let's get rid of it then
Lawyer: Noooooo
alito: any comment on asians?
lawyer: yes, discrimination against asians is bad.
alito: then you good with trashing AA
lawyer: uhh, no...except when it comes to college admissions. but discrimination against asians is bad.
As an Asian American immigrant thank you Justice Alito
Common Core legal argument from the attorney.
This reminds me of how we as a society tried to justify anti Semitism just as how we have tried to sustain anti Asian racism throughout history through our institutions. I think now is the right moment in time to actually demonstrate some moral backbone and say that racism against our aapi brothers or as historically referred to the orient or oriental people and end the systemic and unspoken racism
What nonsense you’re on about? Nothing racist about affirmative action. Time to move on with your nonsense and outdated thoughts.
But they make no claims about discrimination against Asians. I suspect this is being pushed by some republican organization to get the supreme court to finally get rid of AA and Asians are the tool to do it. If it were white men complaining it might not look as good
By using AAPI you are accepting the racial group categorization that is being imposed by the same people who want to marginalize asians in favor of other groups. Stop using left wing talking points to argue against left wing talking points
@@ktoth29 affirmative action is not about race!
@@The_North0Affirmative Action is communist crackpottery for Revenge Racism. Time to move out with your irrational idiocy and denial of reality
I’m a graduate of Chapel Hill and I did NOT put down on my application that my race was Asian/Pacific Islander…which I am. I got in as a transfer student from the University of Guam, so this might have had some bearing when even considering my application.
I am realllllly struggling to work out what UNC's lawyer is trying to argue here.
My best friend's kid goes to a top prep school in New York. The father is a fireman and the mother is a physical therapist-- they sacrificed a lot to pay for this school. The kid finished second in his class, and on his college entrance exams he finished in the nation's top one percent. He starred on the basketball team and was the president of his class. He did a ridiculous amount of charity work for the underprivileged for four years. This kid was a slam dunk for the IVY and yet he was rejected by all of them. He was rejected because he's white and from a middle-class family. Not poor enough to get consideration and not rich enough to buy his way in. The kid was so depressed after working so hard and striking out at every one of his top 20 school choices that went beyond the IVY-- it's impossible. And to now sit here and listen to this gaslighting by attorneys arguing that White and Asian people who work hard and study aren't being passed over due to their race is outrageous. They believe in diversity as long as that doesn't mean adding a conservative professor.
Excellent observation
Probably the best thing that could have happened and God was watching out for him. Now he won't get brainwashed by a bunch of leftist liberal whack jobs
Google and it's comrades in the far left media are already demonizing Justices Alito and Thomas as "right wing, unethical and corrupt"