Let's Build a Rotary Table Fixture Plate!
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- This episode on Blondihacks, I’m making a fixture plate! Exclusive videos, drawings, models & plans available on Patreon!
/ quinndunki
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Lots of folks suggesting rotating the table 45°. That’s a nightmare waiting to happen. Now your pointer is not in a place that’s easy to see, and you’ll have parallax issues every time you look at it. Or if you leave the pointer alone, now you have to do all your math offset by 45 which is a guaranteed source of very expensive errors. Rotary table setups are hard enough as it is without making everything worse for yourself. On top of all that, you’ve only “solved” half the problems I’m trying to solve.
Some folks also saying all MIC-6 is ground. No, it isn’t. McMaster sells regular and tight tolerance versions of it. I have bought both and the regular version is just a lump of cast aluminum cut on a saw.
Confessing Drillchuck-threader since 1999.
Also: Power tapping, because were not animals.
We like you anyways 🤣
@@StefanGotteswinter Also: Machine taps, because this isn't the stone age.
Same here. Those hand-taps are cheap, and you can buy them everywhere. Machine taps are expensive, and few shops sell them. So far, I'm still below one thread tapped per year of my life (though I've chased a fair few more), so I haven't be able to justify the cost of the good stuff, but I'm also lazy :P
Thanks Quinn. As an electrical engineer i see hole patterns and think modulation constellations like 32-APSK used in video broadcasting might work. However, the sweet-toothed me thinks you need some threaded candles for your aluminium cake! 🎂 😊
I always learn something new when I watch your videos, even though I've been a professional machinist for 45 years. Thank you.
I feel like we work in shops that do the same work over and over again. We don’t learn outside that box unless we work outside it.
I always learn something new as well. But to be fair, I was only a machinist-in-training for about 2 1/2 months back in 2001. 😂
I've been a youtube commenter for three years, so I always have corrections to point out to video authors and other commenters....
@@yowie0889😂😂😂😂
Your hand tap vs machine tap explanation was excellent.
It was so clear and well done that I think Sprocket would now give you a big meow if you put a hand tap in your cordless drill. lol
I appreciate that you are explaining how to do something badly in the smart way. When you stuff fails because you took a calculated risk, at least the failure wasn't a surprise, it was expected as an outcome.
"It's about understanding the tradeoffs of the decisions that you're making." Geez, if only I'd absorbed THAT lesson at a much younger age...🤪
Why do I get so happy when you say that chamfers are what separate us from the animals? 🙂🙂🙂
Cold opening on a sticker peel made this my favorite video yet.
I double checked my volume 😂
I literally thought those swirl marks was leftover adhesive or something from pulling it off at a weird speed until she mentioned the Blanchard grinding lol
That's pretty cool.
And well done as usual.
And yes, I laughed out loud at "Clearance is clearance Clarence" again.
Thanks, and Meow to Sprocket.
Is this a reference to Clarence the cross eyed lion?
@@robert_g_fbg
It's a reference to the movie Airplane!
If you haven't seen it it is a classic. Definitely worth a watch.
@@robert_g_fbgNo, it’s connected to the slapstick aviation movie “Airplane”.
Nice vid Quinn as usual. Another suggestion for trying form taps sometime. Sometimes called "flute-less" or "chip free". They must be used in a machine or with a good tap guide for hand tapping to keep them straight and they require a little more torque than fluted taps. Two giant advantages of form taps: 1) no chips, so holes are much easier to clean out and 2) they are much stronger and less likely to break (as in you can just forget about broken taps with careful technique). The tap drill sizes are different than normal taps and the tap drill hole size is somewhat more critical. McMaster has a decent selection. Some might say: once you try them you will never go back.
Never even seen MIC-6 but Online Metals says this:
Aluminum MIC-6 is cast plate known for its stability and consistency between plates. It has superior flatness and dimensional tolerances on the thickness which makes it popular for tooling and base plates.
Aluminum MIC-6 is a registered trademark of Alcoa.
Specifically for aluminum, thread forming taps are an underrated solution. No chips!
When I was in the wire EDM shop one of my side tasks was burning out broken taps and drill bits with the EDM deep hole drill for the cnc guys.. occasionally had to rescue some near-completed part for an outside customer who broke a bit in tapping the last hole in a part that had hours of machining done.. Use the right taps folks
I'm a machinist and I gotta tell you, that's some damn fine tapping goin' on. The operator clearly improves the overall experience. Love you Quinn
Before I noticed your CZcams video, I decided to make one of these. I copied a few features from other videos to incorporate into my pallet. I initially thought of making mine round, but also wanted to set it up on the mill table. I then compromised by making it octagonal, which gives minimal overhang on the rotary table, but also enables it to be squared up on the mill table. Love your videos.
Nice project! When power tapping with minimal overhead clearance, I use Lisle tap holder sockets held on the OD by an R8 collet. Now the tap is actually seated up inside the quill. You have to keep light pressure on the quill handle, as they only have an internal O-ring that holds the tap in place with friction, but you can easily back off to free the tap from the square drive if they get stuck. They're also handy for power tapping with cordless tools with a 1/4" hex to square drive adapter.
i was already in the market to make a mini pallet for the mill but NOW u have shown me i really could use one of thse for the rotary table...project 22 is now up on the TODO board...lol. great video and thanks for posting these they are wonderful
Quinn, great project! I especially enjoyed your comments on tapping with a cordless electric drill. This is something I've done a lot, but now I am aware of the possible drawbacks, and that a different style of tap can be a better choice.
I made a RT pallet square, 2 reasons increased area for the clamps and XY alignment of parts on the pallet, when RT is set aligned the pallet edge is also aligned
Oh, that intro was SO satisfying! Thank you. LOVE your channel, your purple toolbox and your sense of humor. :)
Good idea to make life a little easier.
You can't beat a good sacrifice. The ancients were aware of that.
Sacrifices are placed in the alter of Chip-Pan for the Machining gods.
Your comments about the problematic nature of turning 6061 almost made me cry. This whole time I thought it was me.
Oh no, my nemesis are nerling and 6061 😂
Oh, and parting tools %$#@ those things 😑
Looks useful. As a mold/toolmaker, I was never happier than when finding that my new shop had rotary cross-slides. Some milling machines had them always installed with vises. Enjoy your videos and the patient explanation of your setups. Always 'best' practice.
If I had started watching these videos 5 years ago I would almost be as smart as a blonde lol you have forgotten more than I will ever know ❤️
Splendid stuff as usual! Several commenters have suggested thread-forming/roll taps. I use them a lot in copper, but they can be a nightmare in softer aluminium variants like 6082, with galling at the end of the tool eventually jamming the tap or wrecking the thread. I drilled and rigid-tapped three hundred M6 and M5 holes in a 19 mm plate on my CNC mill and snapped an M5 forming tap, but didn't notice the 60 or so holes with mangled threads caused by galling on both taps until the tooling plate was in use, and a thread pulled out. Trusty Helicoil kit to the rescue! Now I use thread mills instead on the CNC, and life is much more chill. On the manual mill I also have a small auto-tapping head, but for M5 upwards, I just do it the way you showed here, with spiral flute taps for pockets and spiral points for through holes. Never any dramas, and it's very relaxing compared with the high-stress "let's watch how the CNC is going to wreck the part THIS time" alternative.
Not surprising that you produced another great instructional video and machined another great tool for your shop!
Thank you Quinn, good to watch you working, and to take in your lessons . . .
I was taught to power tap in a bridgeport and the toolmaker who showed me gave me some good pointers, such as "If you only have a few holes, just get the damn job done." "No, that's my nice chuck use the other one for that." and "If you're going to break a tap, it's best to do it either before or after you're finished using it."
I was never classified as a Machinist, but was a Multi-Craft Electrician who was expected to operate machine tools on off shifts. The 40 foot long by 36 inch swing Engine Lathe was used mainly for machinery and crane shafting (yes we did crane repair as well). The large Shaper was used mainly for split coupling keyways, but also cleaning up wear surfaces on equipment parts. Didn't use the big Cincinnati Mill very often unless something was left that was needed by morning. We were the highest paid class in the Mill, so using us was expensive, but not as expense as the down time and the Machinists usually refused to work overtime.
Excellent idea. Looking forward to how well this works for you.
This shows how important operational experience is to design. I have a small drill press with linear slots, and if I scaled it up, I'd likely do linear slots, which wouldn't be as nice as the X pattern for the exact reasons mentioned. Same with a grid pattern on a rotary table or any addition or omission of a centering system. Having a wide amount of experience with operations makes for a good design for the tool.
I actually live very close to Arconic, the place the aluminum was from. Very cool facility
You have some impressive projects! I've been subbed for years. So thank you for for what you do I appreciate you! Take care
That intro is the BEST, most satisfying "unboxing" clip - EVER!
i power tap with a jacobs chuck all the time, its skechy at times but it works
I thought the plastic peel at the beginning had made my day, but seeing the completed fixture plate emerge from the last chamfering chips...
I’m not opposed to drilling & tapping bolt patterns on the face or cutting new T slots.
I'd just like to say a great big thankyou for all your videos you upload. As a comparison I do love Chris' work over on the Clickspring channel, he's a very accomplished artisan and his videos are tool p**n of the highest degree, (please forgive my crassness 😂)
However with your videos, they are very very informative, you clearly have a very good understanding of the theory behind what your doing. EVERY single one of your videos I've seen, I've learned something, more often than not, multiple things. Purely because you take the extra time to explain things.
Your videos definitely haven't gone unappreciated.
Just wanted to put that out there, keep up the amazing work 😁
Very nicely done. I use tons of arconic for fixturing , to my knowledge every piece is Blanchard ground. At least I have never gotten a piece that wasn't and I get 4-ft square plates. The locals around here that use it call it "Mike 6" but I don't know if that's the correct pronunciation or the one you used. It machines nicely because it is cast and not extruded like 6061. The granular structure means that it is naturally stress relieved and as you point out beautiful to machine.
(*Albrecht style. I do a lot of tapping with Albrecht style chucks, because they are self-tightening and you can drill a hole and change to the tap tickety-boo. I put my number 7 drill in bottomed at the Chuck to get my length where I want it so that the holes are all the correct depth and then just swap over to the tap. )
My favorite spiral flutes for doing it the wrong way are OSG. If you ever have a chance to put your hand on some, I bet you will love them
I've always heard it refereed too as "Mike 6", that's how the guys at the metal warehouse called it. I've made tons of fixture plates out of it, mostly because it came in flat and stayed flat as it was surfaced. I believe it's a 7000 series cast alloy, makes lovely vacuum fixtures. I know a few 3d printer guys that use it for their build plates because it comes flat and doesn't warp as it heats up as well.
Making a 1" thick fixture plate with about 60 holes on a Bridgeport clone removed all fear of power tapping for me. I learned it by auditing a community college machining course (free in NY for us seasoned citizens) where they had me making home shop tooling instead of all of the normal projects. We were using normal taps in drill chucks in both aluminum and steel. For the machinist jack project we were power tapping steel on the lathe.
Very interesting, I watched it from the beginning to the end an I learned several things.
One thing I see differently is: through-holes could be easier to make, they offer all functions and the are easier to clean later later on. One would of course have to clamp the plate with spacers, maybe I miss something.
7:35, Maybe I missed something, I thought you should be able to unlock the drillpress table and swing it to the side to get the drill over the center point, while having the vise still in position. Drill into the butter on the edge, or have a sacrificial wood piece below to know that you're through, before you drill into the table.
But I can't quite see how the float-lock vise is affixed to the table.
Yet another one of your nice tool builds. We shared this video on our homemade tool forum last week 😎
Always measured twice cu1.5 times. Thanks Blondie 😊
Yummy, workshop ASMR. Just what I needed this morning!
Great video and that rotary table fixture plate looks like it'll be a dream to use. I almost always use fixture plates on my machines but generally create "top tooling" specifically for each job that will perfectly fit the part. My rotary table currently just has the T-slots and no fixture plate to easily attach parts, I'd definitely like to do something like this for my rotary table to make installation and removal of "top tooling" easier. I have an Erowa quick change pallet chuck that stays on there 100% of the time because I hate having to recenter the chuck on the axis of the rotary table, but making a variation of this could potentially allow me to be willing to take it off more frequently! That little mention of Dayton CNC was a company I had never heard of and they really look like they make exactly the kind of tooling I've been looking for!
Really neat concept, thanks for posting this!
You might find it useful to drill and ream a pattern for hardened pins for repetitive setups, it’s worked for me on similar setups.
Nicely done. Take care.
Really cool project. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for posting this. I have been pondering making myself some type of fixturing plate for my rotary table. Thanks for some useful ideas.
Great job. Thank you 😊
I built a similar plate for a small cnc machine and ended up getting some polycarb sheet laser cut with the same shape and pattern to use as a spoil board.
Great video Quinn , really learned a lot about the different taps , thank you
Great episode! Thanks. Simple engineering is great engineering. Loving all your projects, esp. the locomotive. nb: I really like that thing Kurtis does where he starts hand taps by holding them in a J chuck and switching off the mill while plunging the quill. Momentum takes the tap a few turns. Often the chuck slips at the end. Now the tap is well started on a good axis. Then he releases the chuck and finishes with a tap handle. No follower. Seems both very safe and super quick, if maybe not perfectly accurate. He has a gajjilion such tricks to speed up repetitive tasks. Also avoids the power tap problem Joe Pi mentioned long ago: As you run a quill-mounted tap back out after threads are cut, the spring pressure can cut a little extra metal, making for loose threads.
Yay!! It's Blondihacks time!!!
Thanks Quinn. The electrical engineer in me always sees these hole patterns as modulation constellation diagrams - maybe 32-APSK would work? However, the sweet-toothed me says you need some threaded candles for your nice aluminium cake :)
I prefer tap forming in aluminum.
No chips and the thread is more robust
Works fine with power tapping
On blind holes I start with the mill and finish the threads with my cordless with the clutch
You m8ght consider taping the clearance holes over the mounting bolts and plug them to prevent buildup in them and give you more clamping spots
Glad to see you using it more! I understand it can take a lot of time to set up and thats most of the time for machining, where the actual cutting is comparably quick, but it is very satisfying to watch, and makes excellent looking parts for things just like those tie rods
Nice job! Will be a very handy shop addition.
Cool tool. Thanks for the video Quinn.
Ah yes the good old learning curve! By the time I'd get to the end of a repetitive process it would be so dialed in I'd find myself wanting to do more. I'd always think "well I'll remember everything next time" but not often would there be a next time. With painting though (automotive), I always documented settings, mixing ratios, weather conditions etc. to get a starting point for the next project and predictable results. Another beautiful project, Quin!
If YOU'RE a chump, you're the chump I'll be watching until you hang up your editing equipment. Keep up the good work and THANK YOU!👏👏👏
Great job as always
Mic6 is cast aluminum with ground surfaces. Also, could the plate been made like an upside down hat? The top could be a larger diameter with clearance underneath to avoid clamps, cranks, etc. on the rotary table.
Thanks for the lesson on taps, ( one of my pet peeves). It's a bit of a luxury for a hobby shop, but BOLO for a Tapmatic tapping head, a 30 x would be a good size. I just sold a big R-7 on eBay that would do up to M-18. Sure makes multiples easy.
Great video! My favorite machining youtube videos are this sort, the purely creative problem solving ones! Cheers, and thanks for sharing!
I have serveral kinds of taps in my shop, but my favorite, by far, are roll-form taps... no chips, just a perfect thread. as for holding taps, I have an ER collet for my R8 spindle, as well as an ER collet for my MT2 tail stock. this still offers the "slip when bottoming out" feature, but at a higher torque rating (making sure it really only slips at the bottom, and not earlier. the right lube is important for roll-form taps, WD40 for 6061 doesn't work great.
You missed an opportunity for one more side project to make a new bushing for that lovely tapping head. I actually looked at buying that unit from one of our HMEC members but very glad to see it landed with you.
Yah that would be a good project! I considered ordering one, but the unit is Swedish, so I figured expensive and long shipping delays.
The best yet. I'm ordering the materials tomorrow and start by build when they arrive..
Thanks for posting Quinn
Beautiful work as usual. I would like you to tinker with electrolyte etching your logo in the side. 🤷🏻♂️
Super work. 👍
Whisper it but - I've had good results using machine taps by hand
I have had good luck using a hand tap in a cordless drill to chase existing threads that may have dirt/etc in them...but definitely agree that they are not good for fresh holes. I also recommend to have multiples for each size, as even with hand tapping, you can break them off and then you not only have to fight to get the broken tap out (not fun, avoid this if you can), but then you need another tap to do the other holes. Also before buying hand taps, research the different kinds for a given size...there are some for doing clear to the bottom of a blind hole, vs through a plate, etc.
Great video Quinn, looking forward to seeing more of the fixture plate in action.
It's always amusing that in imperial machining "one hundrend thousandths" is often different to "a tenth"
Here i am at 3am on a Sunday morning watching this 3. minutes after release. Am I mad or suffering from Insomnia?😊😊😊😊😊
If 3am on Sunday morning is when Quinn’s videos drop in your part of the world, then 3am on Sunday sounds like exactly the right time to be awake!
"because chamfers is what separates us from the animals" - At first I lol'd, but then I subscribed
On some of my machine taps I have cut off the square drive and ground 3 flats 120 degrees apart on the shank with the D-bit grinder. This basically dedicates those taps to power tapping in the mill or lathe. This makes them much more friendly towards my drill chuck.
A little more info for your tap selection. Spiral point taps push the chip down the hole in front of the tap. This requires less chip clearance on the tap, so they are stronger. Obviously, they aren't great for blind holes. Spiral flute taps bring the chip up and out of the hole. They require more chip clearance so they are a bit weaker. The strongest taps are form taps. They have no flutes since they don't produce a chip. They do require a larger hole and more torque. Since they 'forge' a thread instead of cutting it, the thread is stronger. One question I have. Could you rotate the rotary table through 45 degrees to offset the t-slots and then move the pointer to the new zero?
Great video, thanks Quinn, helps a lot!
Not sure it would have solved this particular problem but can the float lock vice clamp be positioned on the bar between the jaws? Might slightly expand the envelope.
Hmm thinking about laser cut or waterjet "spoil plates"................
I love that you use the little lens blower to remove chips with instead of shop air! I swear those chips can land in the next county over with a little bit of compressed persuasion
My vacuum cleaner is king in my shop.
We have a machine at work that's like a cross between a mill and a drill press that has a tap feature on it. You basically put the machine in reverse and hold a momentary button switch that puts it in forward, then as you tap you just occasionally release the button to go into reverse and break the chip. Then you press the button again and continue tapping. It's all done really quickly and I've had great success with normal hand taps.
I had a speed tap chuck once upon a time, if I can find it I would be happy to send it to you.
Hello!
What did you mean when you said that the threads of the t nuts are "staked" at the bottom ?
Whack the edge of the hole with a chisel to distort the threads so that the bolt cannot continue past the end of the hole, push against the bottom of the T slot, and press the T nut upwards possibly cracking the (cast) table of your mill or RT. Other techniques to accomplish this include welding the hole shut, or whacking an appropriate sized ball bearing on the bottom of the hole to slightly bend in its edges all the way around.
I've got a rotary table for my mill, and a little jig borer with a rotary table. I hardly ever use them because clamping stuff down is such a PITA. This could be a turning point (pun intended) - I just need to find the UK equivalent of your magic alloy. Two minutes on Google ought to fix that. I learn something each time I watch one of your videos: thanks, Quinn.
And it would seem that, in the UK, we call MIC-6 "MIC6 Cast Aluminium Tooling Plate".
I made a similar part a couple years ago because I kept running out of space on my 6" table. I found a cast iron 8" disc at a reasonable price, so I used that. I aligned the disc to the rotab with 4 pins and marked them so I could put it back on in the position that it was machined in. The only thing is that between a 6" rotab and a 1.5" slab on top of it, its on the heavy side.
I love your sound booth! PVC, duct tape and WD-40 could put a man on the moon. Again.
👍
You make this look easy
Very nice project!
Thought you were crazy in the last video. But dang this makes alot of sence.
I might be crazy *and* right
🙌
oh so satisfying when you peel the protective plastic off in 1 piece.
I am such a nerd. I knew you would make something cool and useful out of a block of something and said, "OK!"
Great project
Is vevor a good brand rotary table
"He likes carrots". 😂😂😂
I guess Hippocraces is a Greek horse, so he wouldn't know that the Welsh word for 'carrots' is 'moron'