It's funny that you mention the VENT WINDOWS that were pretty much standard on every car back then!! I think the Japanese also started to incorporate Vent windows in their cars also! The first time I saw them ,they were installed in my mom's new 1966 Chevy Nova 2. They were great on very hot days, on the highway, you could adjust it to get what ever type of airflow you wanted, from very soft to hurricane 🌀 force winds with very large volumes of air all without using a fan or electricity! Back then, nobody really had Air-conditioning in their house or car yet. There was no houses with central air conditioning. It's funny that you mention the VENT WINDOWS that were pretty much standard on every car back then!! I think the Japanese also started to incorporate Vent windows in their cars also! The first time I saw them ,they were installed in my mom's new 1966 Chevy Nova 2 coupe. They were great on very hot days, on the highway, you could adjust it to get what ever type of airflow you wanted, from very soft to hurricane 🌀 force winds with very large volumes of air all without using a fan or electricity! Hand cranked car door windows were the norm for the day Back then, nobody really had Air-conditioning in their house or car yet. There were no houses with central air conditioning. China didn't have any cars, only bicycles! China was like a jail back then. A closed society and none of us really gave a crap about poor, poor China! It was such a backwards country with nothing but uneducated farmers who seemed perfectly happy with China staying on the down low! I liked it that way too!!
Vent windows were the best. I was born long after they stopped making them, but i've driven some pretty old cars which had them. I don't know why they got rid of those, they were so useful. Only reason I can think of is that they tend to "whistle" a little bit when closed.
The last GM equipped with wing windows, which I owned, was my 1969 G10 van in delivery trim - so stripped down, it had only a driver’s seat. My van had a solid windowless rear doors, but there was a completely useless rear view mirror (mandated by Uncle Sam, perhaps?). Those big exterior truck mirrors were nice though. The G10 had an almost total disregard for safety - paper thin doors, solid steering post, no front crush zone. Even a fairly minor crash would likely have been medically pretty serious. For what it is worth, there was a seat belt.
Vent windows and floor vents that riders in the front could open even when it was raining - were great features.. It probably saved $100 per car by eliminating these - and no doubt some engineer got a big bonus as a result.
A lot of roof- rust that is associated with vinyl tops stems from the fact that the top material and the associated trim pieces placed at the edges were all applied after the car had been painted. The holes for the numerous fasteners are drilled through the painted metal and this exposes a small but very vulnerable area of unpainted steel which attracts moisture and ultimately rusts. The vinyl helps retain the moisture around those bare metal sites and after enough time the area will rust through. I have seen examples where the metal top has nearly detached from the body.
funny, people associated vinyl roofs with prestige, to me it seemed like a cheap tactic to not fully paint the car, just put a drilled‘durable’ rag over it lol
Owned my '70 chevelle SS since '75 and had the rear window to trunk lid sheet metal reskinned for the 2nd time last year, this time with structural repairs. Such a poor design that even when mostly garaged they rust out. Still I wouldn't change a thing.
My older brother redid a lot of vinyl tops in auto shop class. He got very good at it. The rest of the car would be fine, but the vinyl top would rot away. This was down South with no salt; I imagine the Midwest was far worse.
I remember reading an old Kurt Cobain interview where he talked about how all his clothing in the trunk became ruined because of rusting on the trunk of his Oldsmobile while on tour playing music.
@@hackdaniels7253 Maybe it's because his clothes started out clean, and then he drove with them in the trunk of his car, and then they were suddenly covered in rust, and he now only had dirty rust-covered clothes to perform in. That's how he could tell.
My first car, a 75' Chevelle/Malibu had great Michigan ventilation in the rear quarter panels by 1986. It's a feature that also lightened the car and made it faster due to less weight and also more efficient😇
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At first I thought I had a bad switch until I got other 70s GMs, which was Cadillac and Oldsmobiles and even a couple Vegas,but yeah that constant running fan annoyed me as well.
@Karl with a K and yet, millions of people are still loyal to this company after getting screwed over and over! Then GM acts surprised when Toyota takes over the world. How about selling people something that actually lasts for awhile for a reasonable price?!
When I was little, my Grandparents had a red 71 Impala with a black vinyl roof and the number reason they ended up getting rid of it was because it too had the rust issues that you mentioned in the video. It was a shame because it was such a pretty car.
I had a red 71 Impala as well. No vinyl top though. The louvered trunk lid did rust out and had to be repaired. Eventually suffered a very "Christine-like" front cap fire and was a total loss. The horn and the headlights were seemingly trying to tap out an SOS signal as the horn went off and on and then lights flashed (even alternately). I hope someone was able to fix her up. I miss all that room!
I thought the ventilation fan always running at low speed was based on a recommendation by Ralph Nader, to prevent a buildup of fumes in the cabin. Having it create the opposite effect was a pretty bad screwup! Many other cars of the '70s, like the VWs and SAABs, had vents on the rear quarter panels for flow-through ventilation, but putting them on the trunk lid seems like a typical dumb GM decision of the era.
A buildup of fumes in the cabin was terrible. Carbon monoxide from a faulty exhaust was a huge concern back then, so forcing the ignorant people (and non-ignorant as well) to have fresh air flowing through the cabin was a good idea. Too many people would drive with everything closed up, with the heater controls on “off” when it was cool out but not cold enough to need heating. With this system they stayed safer.
Yes it did accomplish that, to keep occupants from getting CO poisoning. Also it kept the ductwork dry so that moist air didn’t get suddenly dumped onto the windshield by someone sliding the lever from “off” to “defrost” after the system being off, closed tight as a drum, so that mold and mildew could grow.
Ah, the 1971 GM trunk lid louvers! Always found it odd the way people were fascinated by holes in the trunk lid. My uncle called them, "rust makers", I just thought they were weird. Couldn't help noticing that the pattern of the louvers varied by make and model. The 1971 Buick Rivera had the coolest set-up, twin rows of louvers on each side of the trunk lid's boat tail - they give the '71 Rivera a sporty/nautical look. The plain trunk 1972 Rivera lost that visual feature, but the benefits were worth it.
Can not understand why this was Included. Obvious water and rust problems. In 1971 GMH (Holden) in Australia introduced a car with total air flow through ventilation without the water/rust problem. The air flowed under the rear seat, and out via the boot(trunk) and the b-pillar. No water ingress problems. Please note that the air leaving via the b-pillar was later copied on US cars. Also defeated any dust sealing weaknesses. Versions of this car remained in production until early 1980's. Never heard of any problems.
My Dad had a sweet 71' Impala custom that he wouldn't sell to me in 1991, but instead sold it to a barfly tootsie that crunched the door and junked it for $50. While I got to drive it for the short time, I was very popular! Everybody loved that car. 400/400 w duels and skirts.
thats a familiar story to mine. but they sold the 74 just before i could drive and got a dodge minivan. so i bought a rusty one several years later. "take that!" haha
Adam, one thing you can do as a video is "Best Automotive Features Of All Time: '70's Oldsmobile Toronado High Mounted Rear Brake Lights" This feature on this cruddy car ACTUALLY worked! The high mounted accessory brake lights on Toronados were visible through windows to cars trailing behind and helped prevent rear-end accidents. It was SO EFFECTIVE that in 1986 the government REQUIRED high mounted third brake lights!
The 1974-1976 Buick Riviera had the dual rear brake lights. The Toronado had that feature from 1971 through 1978. When the feature was introduced in 1971. The third brake light was 15 years away. When that model was redesigned for 1979. That device was 8 years away.
It was effective at the time because it was unusual, strange, and something people hadn't seen before. Now that it's ubiquitous its effects have become statistically unmeasurable. These aren't my words, that was the NHTSA report a few years ago. However, since the third brake lamp only costs manufacturers an average of $17 to add they see no point in changing anything
@@Channel-gz9hm I suppose that no matter no matter how good a safety feature is, users will nullify the improvement because of the added sense of security. Nonetheless, the high-mounted brake lights make driving a lot easier; I love being able to look down the road and see what drivers are doing a mile ahead.
@@frankdenardo8684 That feature actually caused these cars to be in far fewer accidents. Insurance companies noticed this and did research to find out why; They discovered that people looked through the windows of cars ahead of them and could see the brake lights of these Toronados and knew to stop sooner. Thus the third high-mounted brake light was mandated starting in 1986.
I remember the advent of the third brake light(I installed after market ones for a few friends). The glowing reports of the reduction of accidents typical for this government mandate came as no surprise. However neither does the fact that you never hear of the great advantages now that they are standard equipment. As I predicted at the time the psychological extinguishing of novelties like this has lead to no current appreciable effect of these gimmicks. They are now only good for improving dexterity do to the difficulty of changing bulbs!
That 71 Toronado is a beautiful car, I remember seeing them on the road back in the late 70s and 80s and was always fascinated with the turn signals under the rear window,cars back then we're innovative,one of a kind,works of art back then,not like todays drone wagons that all look the same.
I remember being able to identify 90% of vehicles at night based off their headlights or taillights. Now everything is so similar I’ve given up trying what once was a fun game I was playing alone in my head 😅
GM had used lock pillar louvers prior to the flawed 1971 design and returned to them in 1972 probably at great redesign expense. They work perfectly fine so the 1971 adventure just never made much sense. Interestingly the Vega kept trunk/hatch louvers through 1973.
@@eddiestanley135 Its possible that the Vega was unable to exhaust the necessary amount of air through the small quarter panel area. Unless they rusted out. But that never happened. 😆 Incidentally, I always liked Vegas.
My Dad bought a new '71 Impala sedan back in '71.The flow of air from the car's electric blower motor couldn't be turned off, even during the cold Winter months in NJ. I remember fabricating hinged metal flaps that could cover the air coming out on the floor. It wasn't factory looking, and you had to reach under the dash to open/close them but they worked rather well.
That was a common complaint here in PA. Nothing like a cold Wilkes-Barre morning in January and an ice cold blast of air that you can't shut off. My grandfather (a died-in-wool Buick man) raised hell with his dealer over his new Riviera that froze him and passengers alike. The dealer's response was to install a cheap toggle switch that looked like something from the Radio Shack clearance bin. If memory serves that was the last big Buick he bought.
I almost always run the defroster when I start out on a cold morning, though that works better on cars that allow the defroster to work in recirculate mode while it is warming up. It's a little annoying, but if the fan were off altogether, the windshield would fog up. I don't remember cars of that era taking that long to warm up.
My parents purchased a new 1971 Buick Centurion during December 1970. The car remained in my ownership from the late-1970's until October 2021. In nearly fifty-one years of ownership, we experienced no problems with the forced air ventilation system, despite the extra number of trunklid louvers on our early-production example. But I did experience rust issues in the lower rear window corners, prompting me to have the rear window area repaired and vinyl roof replaced twice during our ownership history. Centurion Formal Coupes and Olds Delta 88 Royale coupes used fiberglass plugs in the rear window area to create a smaller rear window opening; a vinyl roof was standard equipment on these models, and the combination of the vinyl roof and fiberglass insert trapped moisture, eventually creating rust issues even on garage-kept cars. . . . Another aspect of the 1971 full-size body designs resulted in a different set of problems: The extreme tuck-under of the lower bodyside / rocker panel area allowed the front tires to throw gravel / rocks onto the lower body side, effectively sandblasting the paint behind the front wheels. This was a particular problem in areas of the country (Pacific Northwest) where crushed rock was employed as "sanding rock" on snow and ice-covered highways. My mother complained to Buick Motor Division, who paid to repaint the body sides of our car when it was nearly new. We learned from the Portland Zone Manager that test drivers at the GM Proving Grounds had observed that the front tires of the new '71 GM full-size cars threw water up onto the side windows of the cars, but the drivers failed to report the issue to the engineering personnel. The problem was learned only when the drivers were interviewed in response to customer complaints. . . . Apart from these issues related to body design, the '71 Buick was remarkably trouble-free -- a superb road car over the decades of ownership.
My 71 Electra 225 coupe must have had much love in its life life prior to my purchase. 63k miles, 100% original survivor, vinyl top, rear sail areas and trunk all rust free, overall car is near mint despite all the “designed in” flaws. Have always loved the louvered look, and GM big car styling of late 60s early 70s . She gets driven often but will be pampered for rest of my time as it’s caretaker. Good article 👍🏼
I did enjoy it! Thanks for posting. This channel always has interesting information. Even things I thought I knew about, I always learn something additional! 👍✔
I remember when GM came out with the "high mount brake lights" on the Toronado and Riveria's. The motoring public DESPISED them. I thought that was an excellent safety feature and fast forward to the '80's and they were mandated.
This reminds me of the mid-sized G. M. station wagons from the 70s up to some time in I think the 80s; they had the lights *inside the bumper.* I was born in 1991, so they weren't commonplace when I first started paying attention to cars, but the tail lights being in the bumper (and nowhere else) looked like the worst place ever for them.
Contrary to the claims that forced air ventilation systems were flawed, they’re still widely used. In order to gain maximum efficiency of the system, the exhausted air needed to be released in a low pressure area- such as behind the rear window. The real flaw was the lack of one way valve that you’ll see incorporated into pillar vents that prevents reverse flow in non-optimal conditions. That GM made engineering changes after one year shows that they were on the ball in ‘71. One wishes they were still as responsive today. Btw, who washes their car in freezing conditions? That’s an excellent way to find all your doors frozen shut.
I'll tell you who: people who want to keep their cars from rotting! One of the best things you can do besides rustproofing to save a car is wash all the kicked-up salt & grime off frequently in the winter. Bit of lithium grease or wax on the door seals keeps them from freezing anyway.
Short features like this are much appreciated - not only from a user standpoint but the ability to learn more about the goods and bads of the engineering of these cars is a real pleasure.👍
My uncle Chuck bought a brand-new 1968 Chevy Impala. It had the Astro-ventilation air circulator feature, same feature talked about in this video. Same year they dropped wing-windows in the doors. Wing-windows worked VERY well, especially for smokers!!! [Like Uncle Chuck!] He HATED that "a**hole ventilation" and argued with his Chevy dealer to the point that he wanted his trade-in back and the deal cancelled!! He traded in a '65 Impala and really loved that car! He told anyone who'd listen that this was a crap feature......and I agree!! Pop 'em a bit if it's raining, or crank those wing-windows all the way, you really got fresh, cool air into your car! FORCED ventilation, for sure. Wish they would bring wing windows back!
Very interesting, Adam. One wonders how the issues that presented themselves escaped the engineers in the first place, particularly the ones residing in Michigan who should have been hyper-aware of the challenges of winter driving. Thanks! 👍👍👍
Lol.... my Dad always said that for the big 3 being located in michigan they should at least know how to build a car that works in the cold weather and snow....the concealed under hood mounted wipers on my 70s trans am prove his point
Good video. I was waiting for you to mention, or someone in the comments, that Astro ventilation eliminated the front passenger doors vent windows or “wing windows“. Probably huge cost savings at the factory. The wing window should’ve stayed in the event of HVAC failure on a rainy day when the interior glass would fog up. Vent windows would prevent that from happening. Also I recall my fathers left hand on the steering wheel holding a cigar. The smoke flowed out the wing window, no problems. “Bring back the wing windows”. Thanks for another good video.
I agree with the wing windows but I think they were eliminated due to crash-worthiness and safety inside the cars. The singular vertical window guide plus the small piece of glass were probably found to contribute to injuries in accidents.
Eliminating vent windows via Astro ventilation. Safety reasons? Theft deterrent? Reduce manufacturing costs? Perhaps all three. During a side impact is a single pane of glass better than a door with a wing window and slightly smaller main glass area? Maybe so. Would owners locking the keys in the car or thieves have less expense replacing the vent window.? Maybe so. Did eliminating wing windows then adding vent louvers on trunk lid or in door jams reduce manufacturing costs? Maybe so. What I do know, opening a vent window at highway speed‘s had less wind noise and interior wind buffeting than a slightly opened single window. Thanks folks, enjoying the conversation. Anybody have a coat hanger I can borrow? 🤷♂️😂
Growing up on the Texas Gulf Coast, my parents' last Pontiac after 25 years of them was the '71 Grand Ville they bought while I was in high school. It had those awful louvers on the trunk, always leaked in the trunk regardless of what the dealer tried. They rusted and also caused the taillights to rust quickly. Both of them converted to Peugeots after that lemon and never came back to GM.
Mom had a 1972 Pontiac Catalina 2 door with a vinyl roof. I tried to seal the back window with silicone. When she sold it, there was a good size hole in the trunk, as well as the right rear passenger foot well under the carpeting.
Super video, Adam! Frankly, in world of junk mail, fake news, faux leather, leading from behind, distopian politics and all the ills of our current world, well, it's just nice to have a few minutes of genuine, factual automotive history! Somehow, it soothes the soul. Thanks!
Great video. I love the vents in my ‘71 LeSabre with 24,000 original miles. The story you told about the forced air design flaw definitely creates interesting conversation when someone asks about the trunk louvers. My car was built in March of ‘71, has six sets of four down from the 10 sets on the early production cars.
It always surprises me when corporate designers don't actually know or test how their work will behave in real life. The classic examples are hood scoops. They are often placed in low pressure aerodynamic areas where they can draw in almost no air. And like with this video's forced air louvers, if air can flow through so can water but water will behave very differently.
That is what happens when profit outweighs quality. Its a main reason why foreign car companies do so much better in sales than American car companies, the emphasis of "quality assurance" is simply ignored.
@@joseyzadoria7815 Not "foreign" car makers. Japanese. They stick with one design and refuse to change it. Toyota's still shipping trucks with rear drum brakes. The Europeans change stuff for the sake of change far more than Americans. (Part of it is due to the fact that European cars are driven, less than 2/3 of the miles American cars are) Go look how reliable a VW or BMW is and how many gadgets they have.
@@straightpipediesel I am going to respectfully disagree. How many foreign cars have you personally owned and driven? I detect and smell some bias from you. For starters Toyota has dominated the US car market since the late 80's because American cars were such shit in terms of terrible designs, and being unreliable. In fact two of the best all time selling cars for not only for reliability but also for resale value is the Toyota Camery and the Honda Accord. (You can look up that fact yourself) As far as Toyota still shipping Trucks with rear Drum brakes, please cite source that supports that assertion, this is the first time I have ever heard that claim. Lets list a few American cars that were among the worst and almost sunk the American Car industry shall we grandpa? 1. Reliant K car 2. Pinto 3. 79 to 85 Cutless Supreme 4. Chevy Chevette 5. Dodge Durango 6.Chevy Lumina 7, Cadillac Cimmeron (What the fuck was this? No serious! What the fuck was this garbage?) 8. Chrysler PT Cruiser 9. Pontiac Aztek 10.Dodge Omni 11.Ford Explorer 12. Chevy SSR 13. AMC Gremlin 14 AMC Pacer 15. Chevy Citiation 16. Ford Mustang II 17. Dodge Aspen 18. Olds/Buick/Chevrolet/Pontiac Diesels 19. Renault Alliance 20. Chevy Vega These are just a few as I am sure I can probably find more to put on this list especially the years in the late 70's and 80's where its widely accepted knowledge that these were the worst years for American cars. In fact the American car industry in today's terms can't really be considered American any more due to being owned by Chinese and Italian companies. Chevy and Chrysler to be specific. The last American car that I owned was a 78 Mercury Cougar, which after going into a store to purchase beer only to come outside to watch it burn to the ground due to an electrical problem. It was absolute shit! After that I never owned another American car again. The car that I ended up driving and purchasing was a VW Golf. It was one of the best cars I have ever owned and I ended putting 350,000 miles on it with minimal maintenance. When I eventually traded it in for a Mercedes Diesel, that car was still running strong. The misconception about VW's is the ones that came from Germany (Wolfberg Editions) vs. the ones that were imported from Mexico. The ones that were assembled in Mexico and imported to the US market had all sorts of problems and were not the same in quality than cars imported from Germany. Car enthusiasts will confirm that fact. The Mercedes that I owned was a 1985 300D Turbo Diesel and it was also one of the best cars I have ever owned and a lot of those cars are still on the road today due to being able to easily convert to Bio-Diesel. As far as BMW's depending on what Model one would purchase was hit or miss, but the M3 and M5 packages were geared toward European Performance and has a loyal following in terms of handling and reliability. I drove a few of them and their fuel management system along with their road handling put American cars to shame. I also owned 3 Toyota Land Cruisers and absolutely loved those vehicles for not only their off-road handling capability but also their reliability. The only thing I will say about American cars is that they have improved in the last 20 years, and most notably they are known for their trucks and Diesel engines. (Although Chevy's experiment with putting diesels into cars failed miserably whereas the German cars were much better with their designs when it came to diesels) Ford trucks or the Ram diesel is something I would consider buying for not only their capability for towing and durability, but also their resale value is reasonable, (although given recent gas prices I am not sure what that looks like currently). Speaking of Ford, they are the only American car company that can be still consider American, and didn't have to take a US funded bail out and is still widely sold through out the world. Aside from owning and driving the vehicles you so disparagingly speak of, I also worked in the car industry for several years as a Sales specialist, so I actually know what I am talking about when it comes to cars in general, and I have no bias when it comes to evaluating cars for both their quality and reliability. My biggest sellers were always Japanese.
Chevy used a system called Astro Ventilation starting in 1968, but it didn’t have trunk louvers. A friend’s 68 Caprice 4dr hardtop had this. It actually worked ok, but the 396 under the hood made it even better.
Didn't they add that to replace the vent windows? It worked fine until the cars were downsized in the late 1970s and the dashboard vents were fan-forced to save space, even if you didn't have AC. The problem was that the heater still trickled all summer unless you installed a manual cutoff valve.
I've known about this problem, yet I still have an affinity for the 71 B & C bodies - the louvers do look 'cool'. And in most cases the 71's were slightly more attractive than the 72's, which in turn were better than the 73's and then the whole design got homogenized, smoothed and lost most of its character.
Hey Adam - I always enjoy your videos. I was pleasantly surprised to see one of my old cars in this video at the 2 minute mark. I owned the white ‘71 Olds Custom Cruiser for several years around 2008 to 2012 or so. Definitely miss that one - should have kept it! Keep up the good work!
I think the '71 Olds (Ninety-Eight) Custom Cruiser was the best looking wagon of all wagons - also loved the 'clamshell" tailgate. Never did see very many of them back then and definitely don't see any of them today.
I had several '70s GM vehicles with forced ventilation, and had no complaints. The defining characteristics (which to my observation did not change when the trunk louvres were eliminated) were the mandatory low speed fan (once the coolant was up to temperature in cold weather), and a mandatory high speed fan when recirculated air was selected (and even then a percentage of the air was fresh). The A/C was so powerful that the rather authoritarian programming just seemed to go with the theme. You were going to be saved from the perils of unexchanged cabin air whether you wanted to be or not.
I especially hated the default to Hi when Recirc was selected. Also, placing the Recirc feature in the warm-cold slider seemed silly, especially coming off '70 and earlier when each brand had its own HVAC system with intuitive controls that you could set as you pleased. FoMoCo had much better controls and in '72 began using GM's superior A-6 compressor in T-Birds and Lincolns and in all the big cars in '75 on to replace the noisy York reciprocating compressor. In the meantime, GM went to the annoying CCOT system in '77 with its cycling compressor and the horrible little C-4 pancake compressor that was good for about a year.
dumb question so if the fan parts of the system where designed better for NVH aka biger motor/fan so it spun slower would that have helped make it feel more luxurious? as mini spits in homes now do some of the same things
@@jazzvictrola7104 I got a electric compressor in my GM hybrid ICE cold 35F. in the summer even if it's 110f outside... I have to bring my hamburger earmuffs with me the cabin gets so cold i can see my breath
it’s something so interesting learning about gimmicks car companies did back then, alot of these things are either drastically redesigned or impossible to replicate
You are a wealth of information. This channel is going to go places!! Brace yourself!!! I grew up with many of the vehicles you speak of, and you are 100% spot on.
Another worst automotive feature was the horn on the stalk of 1983 Ford Thunderbird and Mercury Cougar. One could never find the horn quickly! Horrible feature.
81-85 Escort/Lynx & Tempo/Topaz the same. It's very easy to rob horn contact parts from later cars to put the horn back where it belongs as I did for my '82 Escort years ago but still, have to wonder what the hell they were thinking. I've worked on many late 90s International 3800 school buses that use the exact same turn signal switch from so long ago. The vestigial function for the old horn switch is still there because you can still push in on the stalk just like those cars but it doesn't do anything.
Ford put the horn on the signal stalk in anticipation of airbags. This was their solution instead of figuring out how to keep the horn button on the wheel pad.
The 1st time we went to use the horn in Ford Faimont in an emergency on an urban street we almost got hit as we could not find the horn activation switch! 1 of Fords dumber ideas!
I owned a 1971 Impala with the louvered trunk lid. Lots of folks thought I had them added trying to be cool. I just told them that I ate a lot of beans and that solved the problem.
Love your channel. It’s full of the kind of nerdy stuff that I deep dive on all the time. Only you’ve done all the hard work already! Thanks! The louvers look nice on the Riviera for sure!
My folks had a 1971 Bonneville, and an uncle had a 1971 Buick (LaSabre, I think); both had massive leaks in the trunk that could never be fixed. Thanks for the video, I'd forgotten about this "feature" from the Malaise Era.
Adam you did a good job with this video I particularly prefer your having shown pictures of the vehicles instead of just your face talkin it was a lot more palatable as a viewer to just gaze upon pictures of these lovely Vehicles just listening to your silky smooth voice a winning formula!
I remember when this system debuted and how unpopular it was. I read John DeLorean’s book “On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors” where John DeLorean talked about how much money GM spent retrofitting these cars to solve some of it’s myriad of problems. In theory it was a good idea. I always tell people how when I was a small child I was allowed to stand up in the front seat between my parents when driving and they were both heavy smokers. There were no child safety seats in those days. It’s surprising that many of us are still here today.
Yeah, about 1969 I was standing up in the front seat of my aunt's car, looking out the back window. She had to hit the brakes when a car turned in front of her. I hit the dash and broke my lower back.
Continue learning facts I knew not before this video. Plus information giving knowledge which may improve purchasing power or simply great conversation points. Highly recommend the topics , concerns and information discovered throughout these videos. Thanks again !!
Back in 1976 while I was in elementary school, we took a field trip to Philadelphia to see the Liberty bell and see the movie “1776”. On the way back to NY there was a dark green Chevrolet Vega that passed our bus doing about 80 mph. When it got about 200 yards ahead of the bus, the hood popped open and from the force of wind, ripped by it off the car and it went flying over the car behind it and flung to the side of the highway. The man driving the Vega pulled over and got out, LAUGHING HIS ASS OFF while walking back to retrieve the hood of his car. I’ll never forget it.
Interesting video, the 72 system of door jam exhaust vents wasn’t new. Just about all GM cars in 69 (and some without vent windows in 67-68) used door jam pressure relief vents to release cabin air. In those years AC cars had a low rather than off position for the HVAC fan but non AC cars had an off position for the fan.
68 actually, is when the vent windows disappeared. Astro Ventilation was cool, they even put a decal with those words where the vent window used to be, on a 68 Caprice, I know.
@@jnucci1 My '68 Fleetwood had 4 of the, but my '69 Sedan Deville had none. I think certain coups like the Riviera and Camaro lost them before the sedans. Fairmonts and Crown Vics still had the option well into the 1980s; must have kept some Ford customers loyal.
Reminds me a little of the old station wagons where you could roll down the window on the tailgate. This turn the vehicle into a gas chamber, sucking your exhaust right back into the cabin.
I absolutely remember that. We had a 1970 Vista Cruiser and a 1973 Custom Cruiser and more often than not, it was fume city if the rear window was open, unless you were moving.
@@big2868 They seem to be the same places to me...I don't remember my mom's 72 Pontiac Safari wagon being a problem with window down except the DUST on gravel roads...Also Problematic on Vans, not only do the glass on vans pop open, they are also removable (though most people didn't know this) I have Dual Pipes straight out the back on my 1971 Ford Ranch Wagon 429, but it has A/C so I haven't driven much with that back window open...(I imagine it would be BAD, with those pipes under the bumper though.)
While I didn't get familiar with any of the cars shown here, I gotta say- the front vents that worked with the front quarter windows in the early 70's Novas were a smokers dream!
Yeah, I remember my buddy's parents 72 Impala four door with the vinyl top, water sure got trapped in those corners. That car rusted quickly. That issue wasn't quite so bad on my 73 Caprice coupe because the rear window extended down behind the metal panel before the trunk, and there was no vinyl down there to trap the water. I wonder how they sealed the joint between the body air exit into the trunk...
My 1979 Chevrolet Monte Carlo had the improved flow through ventilation system with the door jamb louvers. The fan would not operate below freezing due to a temperature sensor mounted under the dash.
It's interesting that many of GM's foreign divisions did NOT adopt this system mainly because the local engineers could see the pitfalls of it. GM's Aussie outpost (Holden) rejected it out of hand, not because of the ice issue but because the local engineers could see the possibility of exhaust blow-back and also because the system would create havoc on outback roads full of red dust. All Aussie car makers had to make sure that their cars limited dust entry on country roads. So, in the 1971 year, Holden introduced their own "flow through" system which did not need the fan to be on. This happened in the HQ series cars (all Aussie Holdens have a two letter model designation...the last Australian made Holdens designated "VF"). Aussie Holdens also offered a vinyl roof option starting in the 68 model year (HK) but Holden's system involved finishing the fixing holes with extra adhesive which offered protection against rust. The final outcome of that was that the cars did not rust at the rear pillars at all BUT they sometimes collected water through the vinyl roof side seams which collected in the centre of the roof which then could lead to rust. It was very much the luck of the draw. Here's an interesting contemporary road test of the '71 model which mentions the flow through ventilation: www.whichcar.com.au/features/classic-wheels/1972-holden-hq-kingswood-road-test
My parents had a 73 Chevy Vega GT and it had the louvers in the hatch. The louvers leaked and we often found standing water in the well where the spare was located. Our Vega was Gold which was fitting as it was a big ole LEMON.
I feel that from the 40s onwards, gimmicks were all the rage. Many of these gimmicks failed, but some developed to become standard equipment in many cars. For example, moisture-activated windscreen wipers. I'm annoyed that the best non-aircon ventilation system for cars ever developed has been made obsolete over the years. I speak with reverence of the 'Quarter Glass Window'. May this wonderful item of automotive history rest in peace, and may it one day have a resurgence in popularity.
It was called "flow through ventilation", as on my parent's '71 Bonneville. It was never a problem, I'm assuming it was designed because the cars no longer had wind wings, and my dad never went to the car wash in freezing temperatures.
We got it on our HQ Holden here in Australia. The extractor was in the C pillar area between the belt line and the dogleg. The LX Torana had the same system but on the Hatchback, the extractor was at the base of the B pillar. Fan assistance was at the driver’s discretion - Off, Low and High
Adam...Great video topic....It really "blows" no pun intended. I had both a 1971 Vega Wagon...in Maine, and a 1971 Impala Convertible...in upstate NY and in Iowa. It was always freezing, and in the winter impossible to get warm.
My 79 Camaro Berlinetta 350 also has the blower Motor starting if you turn ignition on. Not possible to stop, but in the 21 years I own it here in Germany no problem for a now 60.000 miles car, only driven for fun at sunny days. Best regards and thank you for your interesting stories of American classic cars.
My dad had a '71 Chevy Caprice for about twenty years and never had any trouble with the ventilation system and never any rust issues in the trunk either.
Yeah, but for a different reason. The bottom part of the rear window frame was almost horizontal and only took a little bit of dirt or leaf pieces to block the drain holes under the rear window trim. The channel under the trim would then collect water and rust through and that would let the water drain into the trunk. You needed a special tool and some skill to take the window trim off and clean out the dirt that collected under it.
Ok I for one being a life long non smoker loved the way that system worked, especially in the 71 Toronado I owned. That I bought used for peanuts during OPEC III, in I believe 1981? It only had 48,000 miles on a premium gas 455 Rocket engine, with the TH425 FWD system that was utterly fantastic on all roads and surfaces, especially in snow and rain, that could be up to 10” deep and I would just plow through! Especially after I installed 4 studded Firestone Town&Country Snow tires on the 15” Toronado exclusive wheels. That were the biggest sized 15” Town&Country tires I could find. Plus I added MOOG Cargo Coil rear springs with HD Munromatic Shocks all around, plus cranked up the front torsion bars to gain over an inch front an rear, I tried to get more in front, but could not get the alignment to specs. But that car was amazing! I could fit 6 big guys in comfort for road trips, splitting the gas up for road trips up north to ski, with a roof rack holding all the skis and the truck all our other stuff!
Musty smell also might be an old rat nest,possibly with a dead rat in it.🤣 My uncle picked up a nice old Cadillac limousine. We took it to a rock concert. It was the first time that car had been driven in a long time. It was winter time and it started to get cold back there. One of my brothers made the mistake of asking him if he could turn on the rear heat. Now the heat did work,but it also blew out this horrendously horrible smell. OMG was it bad. About a week later I went down to his place to hopefully track down where the smell was coming from. I found it with one of those cameras that are mounted in a flexible tube thingy. He bought one at Harbor Freight fairly cheap. Without it,we never would have been able to find that rat nest in the heat duct. Since then,I bought one too. They come in really handy. Also used it to see what was going on with my neighbor's early 2000's jeep grand Cherokee. Used it to look down the spark plug holes. Found dropped valve seat without completely removing the head. Well it needed to come off anyway to fix /replace the head,but at least we knew exactly what needed to be done.
My 71 Buick Estate has a vinyl roof that is in need of replacement, and under the vinyl is just a thin coat of red primer. GM didn't bother to paint a roof if it was getting vinyl on it, but it was Lacquer primer they used, and that is not at all moisture proof, so rust spread rapidly at the edges. They didn't care about longevity at all. The backside of all the body shell is bare steel, so keeping it garaged and dry is important. I'm doing away with the vinyl when the car is restored- Good riddance.
Wandering through the junkyards, every vinyl top had rust underneath, to some extent. A bad idea, just for show. At least the truck bed liners served a practical purpose, until the moisture trapped beneath rotted out the bed----Oops, nobody saw that coming either.
Great overview and helpful at understanding these vehicles. My stepmother had the 71 Sedan Deville, color was Primrose Firemist, it had the louvers you mention. That said I had several GM vehicles, restored several in Corvallis Oregon. Let me tell you vinyl roofs were a nightmare in a region where it rains night and day. The trunks were always full of water, partly too from rear window which always leaked. I bought a '64 Riviera at Portland which I restored, the rear floor boards were full of water on the lot! Fought leaks on that car endlessly, think there just isn't a car that can with withstand the deluge of rain and moisture in the Northwest (at least a vintage one). The only salvation is a garage. The only classic car I owned for many years was a '69 Eldorado, to my recall it never leaked. Finally I fled to the Southwest!
As I was watching this excellent video, I remembered many cars where the issues you covered were problems for friends and family who had some of these General Motors cars. The 70’s were the beginning of GM , Chrysler & Fords’ slide into mediocrity and ruin as they ignored what their customers wanted , and were buying from Japan , Germany , and later South Korea .
Hi Adam, I enjoy your knowledge! Thank you! I was wondering if this was why the 71(?) Riviera with the louvard trunk was a 1 yr only design? Thanks again
Totally different generation of vehicle here, but I really appreciated the outside air vent under the steering column of our old '91 Grand Caravan. You could get fresh air blowing directly on you with the windows rolled up. Really good for not having highway speed air buffeting in through the side windows, or needing to have the windows down when it rained. It worked even better when the rear vent windows were opened.
Aston Martin had a problem with a build-up of fumes in the cabin with the '67 onward DBS. Customers complained that if they had their side windows half down they got fumes in the cabin. AM came up with a solution of course - they told customers to drive with the windows either fully up or fully down (true).
Cool idea, but obviously a major failure. It's interesting how ford had an existing comparable system that worked fine, yet gm missed the ball so hard. For me personally, I'd rather just have good old vent windows for circulation- but I almost always have the windows open anyeays, unless it's super hot out and I'm using ac.
Yeah but Ford had their horrible power steering system, some have wondered, why in the age of industrial spying, they didn't find out why GMs power steering system was so superior and duplicate it, don't forget Ford's infamous transmission that would jump out of gear and run over the person who walked behind it to retrieve their paper
I'm glad you mentioned that full-sized GM cars of this era had rusting issues around the rear window areas. My 1st car was a 1972 Impala post 4 door without the vinyl top and had this issue. The trunk was filled with water, so I drilled holes on at the base of the rear quarter panels and it all drained out. Living in California, wasn't too bad.
props on using the correct name for the "tulip panel" . i've been in autobody for 30+ years, have even worked in a few restoration shops and nobody i have ever come across knows that name.
If they had positive air pressure venting out of the louvers, how did exhaust get sucked in? Or, was it also acting as an intake? The video seems to suggest otherwise.
Well, they haven't changed much. I did a Vortech 2800 timing chain and tensioner a few months ago. It was the most wretched hostile engineering I've ever dealt with, the job would have been easier with the engine pulled out of the truck.
@@jefferyepstein9210 You can see this with how overnight the Auto industry stopped producing bland late 90s to to late 2000s automotive designs. It's as if a whole generation of engineers & designers retired. Even Kias today smoke BMWs in design from just few years ago. Look at the rocket industry. The whole point of the SLS rocket program is to keep engineers around long enough to draw a pension. Right now everyone seems to be hoping that SpaceX goes away so they can continue to produce rocker designs from the 1970s.
Thanks for this informative video! I'm completely redesigning the HVAC system in my old truck (classic Dodge Dorito dashboard), and this is giving me some insight! :3
I remember seeing those events when I was just a kid however I had no idea what they were for. Not until I watched this video. Thanks for posting this.
Big mistake was elimination of the vent windows. I still miss them years later.
Yeah gm got rid of them the last year for them was 1968 big mistake
It's funny that you mention the VENT WINDOWS that were pretty much standard on every car back then!! I think the Japanese also started to incorporate Vent windows in their cars also! The first time I saw them ,they were installed in my mom's new 1966 Chevy Nova 2. They were great on very hot days, on the highway, you could adjust it to get what ever type of airflow you wanted, from very soft to hurricane 🌀 force winds with very large volumes of air all without using a fan or electricity! Back then, nobody really had Air-conditioning in their house or car yet. There was no houses with central air conditioning. It's funny that you mention the VENT WINDOWS that were pretty much standard on every car back then!! I think the Japanese also started to incorporate Vent windows in their cars also! The first time I saw them ,they were installed in my mom's new 1966 Chevy Nova 2 coupe. They were great on very hot days, on the highway, you could adjust it to get what ever type of airflow you wanted, from very soft to hurricane 🌀 force winds with very large volumes of air all without using a fan or electricity! Hand cranked car door windows were the norm for the day Back then, nobody really had Air-conditioning in their house or car yet. There were no houses with central air conditioning. China didn't have any cars, only bicycles! China was like a jail back then. A closed society and none of us really gave a crap about poor, poor China! It was such a backwards country with nothing but uneducated farmers who seemed perfectly happy with China staying on the down low! I liked it that way too!!
Vent windows were the best.
I was born long after they stopped making them, but i've driven some pretty old cars which had them. I don't know why they got rid of those, they were so useful.
Only reason I can think of is that they tend to "whistle" a little bit when closed.
The last GM equipped with wing windows, which I owned, was my 1969 G10 van in delivery trim - so stripped down, it had only a driver’s seat. My van had a solid windowless rear doors, but there was a completely useless rear view mirror (mandated by Uncle Sam, perhaps?). Those big exterior truck mirrors were nice though. The G10 had an almost total disregard for safety - paper thin doors, solid steering post, no front crush zone. Even a fairly minor crash would likely have been medically pretty serious. For what it is worth, there was a seat belt.
Vent windows and floor vents that riders in the front could open even when it was raining - were great features.. It probably saved $100 per car by eliminating these - and no doubt some engineer got a big bonus as a result.
A lot of roof- rust that is associated with vinyl tops stems from the fact that the top material and the associated trim pieces placed at the edges were all applied after the car had been painted. The holes for the numerous fasteners are drilled through the painted metal and this exposes a small but very vulnerable area of unpainted steel which attracts moisture and ultimately rusts. The vinyl helps retain the moisture around those bare metal sites and after enough time the area will rust through. I have seen examples where the metal top has nearly detached from the body.
funny, people associated vinyl roofs with prestige, to me it seemed like a cheap tactic to not fully paint the car, just put a drilled‘durable’ rag over it lol
Yes we had a 1972 Buick LeSabre with a vinyl top that started rusting/bubbling in the rear roof corners within 3 years.
Owned my '70 chevelle SS since '75 and had the rear window to trunk lid sheet metal reskinned for the 2nd time last year, this time with structural repairs. Such a poor design that even when mostly garaged they rust out. Still I wouldn't change a thing.
My older brother redid a lot of vinyl tops in auto shop class. He got very good at it. The rest of the car would be fine, but the vinyl top would rot away. This was down South with no salt; I imagine the Midwest was far worse.
@@J.Gainez Even Rolls Royce offered a vinyl option. I've seen many with them.
I remember reading an old Kurt Cobain interview where he talked about how all his clothing in the trunk became ruined because of rusting on the trunk of his Oldsmobile while on tour playing music.
How the hell could Kurt Cobain tell if his clothing was ruined or not?
@@hackdaniels7253 It might be a matter of his clothes getting moldy, not just tattered and dirty.
@@hackdaniels7253 Maybe it's because his clothes started out clean, and then he drove with them in the trunk of his car, and then they were suddenly covered in rust, and he now only had dirty rust-covered clothes to perform in. That's how he could tell.
So, that's how the Seattle grunge style started!
He certainly does not need clothes now.
What about GM's innovative Michigan Ventilation System that admits fresh air through the rockers?
Rust particles have vitamins and minerals when inhaled in great amounts.
My first car, a 75' Chevelle/Malibu had great Michigan ventilation in the rear quarter panels by 1986. It's a feature that also lightened the car and made it faster due to less weight and also more efficient😇
LOL, it took me a minute to get the joke. Too funny!! 🤣
Heavy
This factory option has been so successful, every model year has been equipped with the same treatment throughout all makes, foreign and domestic, specifically distributed amongst dealers and buyers alike located in roadway and oceanside mineral-rich inclement climate areas. Only those rare areas of pleasant tropical climate received less application of this factory option for preservation of the financial investment specifically to drive up the repurchase markets beyond twenty-five years of model year existence. Usage may vary. Our investors appreciate your continued purchases. Please come again.
I always hated that I couldn’t shut off the fan motor, especially when a bearing gets noisy - these got a toggle switch installed
At first I thought I had a bad switch until I got other 70s GMs, which was Cadillac and Oldsmobiles and even a couple Vegas,but yeah that constant running fan annoyed me as well.
that's another problem with this system, constantly running fan motor means early demise of the fan motor.
@@hughjass1274 Which is likely a Hugh J. Pain to replace...
@Karl with a K and yet, millions of people are still loyal to this company after getting screwed over and over! Then GM acts surprised when Toyota takes over the world. How about selling people something that actually lasts for awhile for a reasonable price?!
When I was little, my Grandparents had a red 71 Impala with a black vinyl roof and the number reason they ended up getting rid of it was because it too had the rust issues that you mentioned in the video. It was a shame because it was such a pretty car.
I had a red 71 Impala as well. No vinyl top though. The louvered trunk lid did rust out and had to be repaired. Eventually suffered a very "Christine-like" front cap fire and was a total loss. The horn and the headlights were seemingly trying to tap out an SOS signal as the horn went off and on and then lights flashed (even alternately). I hope someone was able to fix her up. I miss all that room!
I thought the ventilation fan always running at low speed was based on a recommendation by Ralph Nader, to prevent a buildup of fumes in the cabin. Having it create the opposite effect was a pretty bad screwup! Many other cars of the '70s, like the VWs and SAABs, had vents on the rear quarter panels for flow-through ventilation, but putting them on the trunk lid seems like a typical dumb GM decision of the era.
Ralph Nader is a commie hack.
it was and this is pointless
A buildup of fumes in the cabin was terrible. Carbon monoxide from a faulty exhaust was a huge concern back then, so forcing the ignorant people (and non-ignorant as well) to have fresh air flowing through the cabin was a good idea. Too many people would drive with everything closed up, with the heater controls on “off” when it was cool out but not cold enough to need heating. With this system they stayed safer.
Perhaps the idea was to slightly pressurize the cabin, to try to prevent fumes from getting in.
Yes it did accomplish that, to keep occupants from getting CO poisoning. Also it kept the ductwork dry so that moist air didn’t get suddenly dumped onto the windshield by someone sliding the lever from “off” to “defrost” after the system being off, closed tight as a drum, so that mold and mildew could grow.
Ah, the 1971 GM trunk lid louvers! Always found it odd the way people were fascinated by holes in the trunk lid. My uncle called them, "rust makers", I just thought they were weird. Couldn't help noticing that the pattern of the louvers varied by make and model. The 1971 Buick Rivera had the coolest set-up, twin rows of louvers on each side of the trunk lid's boat tail - they give the '71 Rivera a sporty/nautical look. The plain trunk 1972 Rivera lost that visual feature, but the benefits were worth it.
I thought the louvers looked cool on the nicely styled Vega,and on the tailgates of the big wagons.
Can not understand why this was Included. Obvious water and rust problems. In 1971 GMH (Holden) in Australia introduced a car with total air flow through ventilation without the water/rust problem. The air flowed under the rear seat, and out via the boot(trunk) and the b-pillar. No water ingress problems. Please note that the air leaving via the b-pillar was later copied on US cars. Also defeated any dust sealing weaknesses.
Versions of this car remained in production until early 1980's. Never heard of any problems.
My Dad had a sweet 71' Impala custom that he wouldn't sell to me in 1991, but instead sold it to a barfly tootsie that crunched the door and junked it for $50.
While I got to drive it for the short time, I was very popular!
Everybody loved that car. 400/400 w duels and skirts.
thats a familiar story to mine. but they sold the 74 just before i could drive and got a dodge minivan. so i bought a rusty one several years later. "take that!" haha
Adam, one thing you can do as a video is "Best Automotive Features Of All Time: '70's Oldsmobile Toronado High Mounted Rear Brake Lights"
This feature on this cruddy car ACTUALLY worked! The high mounted accessory brake lights on Toronados were visible through windows to cars trailing behind and helped prevent rear-end accidents. It was SO EFFECTIVE that in 1986 the government REQUIRED high mounted third brake lights!
The 1974-1976 Buick Riviera had the dual rear brake lights. The Toronado had that feature from 1971 through 1978.
When the feature was introduced in 1971. The third brake light was 15 years away. When that model was redesigned for 1979. That device was 8 years away.
It was effective at the time because it was unusual, strange, and something people hadn't seen before. Now that it's ubiquitous its effects have become statistically unmeasurable. These aren't my words, that was the NHTSA report a few years ago. However, since the third brake lamp only costs manufacturers an average of $17 to add they see no point in changing anything
@@Channel-gz9hm I suppose that no matter no matter how good a safety feature is, users will nullify the improvement because of the added sense of security. Nonetheless, the high-mounted brake lights make driving a lot easier; I love being able to look down the road and see what drivers are doing a mile ahead.
@@frankdenardo8684 That feature actually caused these cars to be in far fewer accidents. Insurance companies noticed this and did research to find out why; They discovered that people looked through the windows of cars ahead of them and could see the brake lights of these Toronados and knew to stop sooner. Thus the third high-mounted brake light was mandated starting in 1986.
I remember the advent of the third brake light(I installed after market ones for a few friends). The glowing reports of the reduction of accidents typical for this government mandate came as no surprise. However neither does the fact that you never hear of the great advantages now that they are standard equipment. As I predicted at the time the psychological extinguishing of novelties like this has lead to no current appreciable effect of these gimmicks. They are now only good for improving dexterity do to the difficulty of changing bulbs!
That 71 Toronado is a beautiful car, I remember seeing them on the road back in the late 70s and 80s and was always fascinated with the turn signals under the rear window,cars back then we're innovative,one of a kind,works of art back then,not like todays drone wagons that all look the same.
I have a friend who has one. It’s huge for a two door. It gets like 6 mpg ,green also.
My dad had a 72 and a 74. They were awesome.
I love the old Land Yachts. They may have gotten crap fuel mileage, but they rode like floating on a cloud.
Problem with the 71' Toro is that the 66 & 67 Toro exsists.
I remember being able to identify 90% of vehicles at night based off their headlights or taillights. Now everything is so similar I’ve given up trying what once was a fun game I was playing alone in my head 😅
GM had used lock pillar louvers prior to the flawed 1971 design and returned to them in 1972 probably at great redesign expense. They work perfectly fine so the 1971 adventure just never made much sense. Interestingly the Vega kept trunk/hatch louvers through 1973.
I guess GM figured if you were a poor soul that owned a Vega you may be to the point of welcoming asphyxiation! 😉
Part of the Vega’s built to rust design
@@robertbeirne9813 The upside: most of the Vega aluminum cylinder engines didn't last long enough for the rust to eat all the way through.
@@Duke_of_Prunes this is true
@@eddiestanley135 Its possible that the Vega was unable to exhaust the necessary amount of air through the small quarter panel area. Unless they rusted out. But that never happened. 😆 Incidentally, I always liked Vegas.
My Dad bought a new '71 Impala sedan back in '71.The flow of air from the car's electric blower motor couldn't be turned off, even during the cold Winter months in NJ. I remember fabricating hinged metal flaps that could cover the air coming out on the floor. It wasn't factory looking, and you had to reach under the dash to open/close them but they worked rather well.
That was a common complaint here in PA. Nothing like a cold Wilkes-Barre morning in January and an ice cold blast of air that you can't shut off. My grandfather (a died-in-wool Buick man) raised hell with his dealer over his new Riviera that froze him and passengers alike. The dealer's response was to install a cheap toggle switch that looked like something from the Radio Shack clearance bin. If memory serves that was the last big Buick he bought.
@@MoultrieGeek why not install an expensive toggle switch that looks like a work of art???
Our family bought a new 1971 Chevy Caprice that had the flow-through system...my poor mother was always freezing in the winter!!
I almost always run the defroster when I start out on a cold morning, though that works better on cars that allow the defroster to work in recirculate mode while it is warming up. It's a little annoying, but if the fan were off altogether, the windshield would fog up. I don't remember cars of that era taking that long to warm up.
I remember that low fan speed noise in 70's GM cars.
My parents purchased a new 1971 Buick Centurion during December 1970. The car remained in my ownership from the late-1970's until October 2021. In nearly fifty-one years of ownership, we experienced no problems with the forced air ventilation system, despite the extra number of trunklid louvers on our early-production example. But I did experience rust issues in the lower rear window corners, prompting me to have the rear window area repaired and vinyl roof replaced twice during our ownership history. Centurion Formal Coupes and Olds Delta 88 Royale coupes used fiberglass plugs in the rear window area to create a smaller rear window opening; a vinyl roof was standard equipment on these models, and the combination of the vinyl roof and fiberglass insert trapped moisture, eventually creating rust issues even on garage-kept cars. . . . Another aspect of the 1971 full-size body designs resulted in a different set of problems: The extreme tuck-under of the lower bodyside / rocker panel area allowed the front tires to throw gravel / rocks onto the lower body side, effectively sandblasting the paint behind the front wheels. This was a particular problem in areas of the country (Pacific Northwest) where crushed rock was employed as "sanding rock" on snow and ice-covered highways. My mother complained to Buick Motor Division, who paid to repaint the body sides of our car when it was nearly new. We learned from the Portland Zone Manager that test drivers at the GM Proving Grounds had observed that the front tires of the new '71 GM full-size cars threw water up onto the side windows of the cars, but the drivers failed to report the issue to the engineering personnel. The problem was learned only when the drivers were interviewed in response to customer complaints. . . . Apart from these issues related to body design, the '71 Buick was remarkably trouble-free -- a superb road car over the decades of ownership.
My 71 Electra 225 coupe must have had much love in its life life prior to my purchase. 63k miles, 100% original survivor, vinyl top, rear sail areas and trunk all rust free, overall car is near mint despite all the “designed in” flaws. Have always loved the louvered look, and GM big car styling of late 60s early 70s .
She gets driven often but will be pampered for rest of my time as it’s caretaker.
Good article 👍🏼
I did enjoy it! Thanks for posting. This channel always has interesting information. Even things I thought I knew about, I always learn something additional! 👍✔
This is a bot.
Or paid comment.
Or drunk.
Or the fat guy from Mr.Mayor.
We had a '71 Impala and during the winter in Minnesota, the constant low fan would blow frigid air on you until the car warmed up. A major annoyance.
Adam, I like the old toronados and rivieras with the set of lights on top of the trunk !
the instant-on low-speed fan caused some people to disconnect that feature. Ice cold air blew in in the dead of winter.
You just had to move the temp slider for heat. I had a 1974 Impala with this system. I thought it worked well.
I remember when GM came out with the "high mount brake lights" on the Toronado and Riveria's. The motoring public DESPISED them. I thought that was an excellent safety feature and fast forward to the '80's and they were mandated.
Toronado is the reason they were mandated. Began as a fashion feature, then statistics showed a significant reduction in Toronados getting rear-ended.
I thought they were unique and cool,as well as the sequential turn signals in the 60s Cougars and Thunderbirds.
@@corvetcoyote443 Those turn signals were so cool! Now they’re on the new Mustang’s. They look awesome!
✌🏻🙂✌🏻
This reminds me of the mid-sized G. M. station wagons from the 70s up to some time in I think the 80s; they had the lights *inside the bumper.* I was born in 1991, so they weren't commonplace when I first started paying attention to cars, but the tail lights being in the bumper (and nowhere else) looked like the worst place ever for them.
I despised the mandate in 1986.
Contrary to the claims that forced air ventilation systems were flawed, they’re still widely used. In order to gain maximum efficiency of the system, the exhausted air needed to be released in a low pressure area- such as behind the rear window. The real flaw was the lack of one way valve that you’ll see incorporated into pillar vents that prevents reverse flow in non-optimal conditions. That GM made engineering changes after one year shows that they were on the ball in ‘71. One wishes they were still as responsive today. Btw, who washes their car in freezing conditions? That’s an excellent way to find all your doors frozen shut.
I'll tell you who: people who want to keep their cars from rotting! One of the best things you can do besides rustproofing to save a car is wash all the kicked-up salt & grime off frequently in the winter. Bit of lithium grease or wax on the door seals keeps them from freezing anyway.
Who wash their car in freezing conditions?
People who live in northern states and Canada, and who aren't driving a pile of trash.
Excellent video. Brings back my childhood like it was yesterday. Thanks!
Short features like this are much appreciated - not only from a user standpoint but the ability to learn more about the goods and bads of the engineering of these cars is a real pleasure.👍
My uncle Chuck bought a brand-new 1968 Chevy Impala. It had the Astro-ventilation air circulator feature, same feature talked about in this video. Same year they dropped wing-windows in the doors. Wing-windows worked VERY well, especially for smokers!!! [Like Uncle Chuck!] He HATED that "a**hole ventilation" and argued with his Chevy dealer to the point that he wanted his trade-in back and the deal cancelled!! He traded in a '65 Impala and really loved that car! He told anyone who'd listen that this was a crap feature......and I agree!! Pop 'em a bit if it's raining, or crank those wing-windows all the way, you really got fresh, cool air into your car! FORCED ventilation, for sure. Wish they would bring wing windows back!
Very interesting, Adam. One wonders how the issues that presented themselves escaped the engineers in the first place, particularly the ones residing in Michigan who should have been hyper-aware of the challenges of winter driving. Thanks! 👍👍👍
Lol.... my Dad always said that for the big 3 being located in michigan they should at least know how to build a car that works in the cold weather and snow....the concealed under hood mounted wipers on my 70s trans am prove his point
Gentlemen we've spent millions of dollars on this system let's go ahead and put it in the cars and hope no one notices it's a failure.
trial and error, but with their case it was straight up trial and throw it into production with no regards for safety, sounds very 1970s america lol
GM. Making garbage since 1971!
@@Mach141 Not even truthful, bad try. Come back after you absorb some facts.
Oh yeah, I'm a Ford guy, too.
Good video. I was waiting for you to mention, or someone in the comments, that Astro ventilation eliminated the front passenger doors vent windows or “wing windows“. Probably huge cost savings at the factory. The wing window should’ve stayed in the event of HVAC failure on a rainy day when the interior glass would fog up. Vent windows would prevent that from happening. Also I recall my fathers left hand on the steering wheel holding a cigar. The smoke flowed out the wing window, no problems.
“Bring back the wing windows”. Thanks for another good video.
I agree with the wing windows but I think they were eliminated due to crash-worthiness and safety inside the cars. The singular vertical window guide plus the small piece of glass were probably found to contribute to injuries in accidents.
@@wizzard5442 They were also said to make the car easier to steal without the loud crash of the main glass breaking.
@@pcno2832 So it was more of anti-theft rather than safety? lol
Eliminating vent windows via Astro ventilation. Safety reasons? Theft deterrent? Reduce manufacturing costs? Perhaps all three.
During a side impact is a single pane of glass better than a door with a wing window and slightly smaller main glass area? Maybe so.
Would owners locking the keys in the car or thieves have less expense replacing the vent window.? Maybe so.
Did eliminating wing windows then adding vent louvers on trunk lid or in door jams reduce manufacturing costs? Maybe so.
What I do know, opening a vent window at highway speed‘s had less wind noise and interior wind buffeting than a slightly opened single window.
Thanks folks, enjoying the conversation. Anybody have a coat hanger I can borrow? 🤷♂️😂
@@wizzard5442 I think so.
Growing up on the Texas Gulf Coast, my parents' last Pontiac after 25 years of them was the '71 Grand Ville they bought while I was in high school. It had those awful louvers on the trunk, always leaked in the trunk regardless of what the dealer tried. They rusted and also caused the taillights to rust quickly. Both of them converted to Peugeots after that lemon and never came back to GM.
I agree. Peugeot would be at the top of my list if I was choosing a foreign car after a bad experience with an American car.
@@jeffaulik3980 My mother bought a 504 sedan and my father, a 504 wagon. I dearly loved driving that wagon on occasion...
Mom had a 1972 Pontiac Catalina 2 door with a vinyl roof. I tried to seal the back window with silicone. When she sold it, there was a good size hole in the trunk, as well as the right rear passenger foot well under the carpeting.
I learned something new: the panel between the bottom of the rear window and the leading edge of the trunk lid is called the *tulip* panel. Wow!
Super video, Adam! Frankly, in world of junk mail, fake news, faux leather, leading from behind, distopian politics and all the ills of our current world, well, it's just nice to have a few minutes of genuine, factual automotive history! Somehow, it soothes the soul. Thanks!
I second that. Germany here.
Great video. I love the vents in my ‘71 LeSabre with 24,000 original miles. The story you told about the forced air design flaw definitely creates interesting conversation when someone asks about the trunk louvers. My car was built in March of ‘71, has six sets of four down from the 10 sets on the early production cars.
I'll bet they changed the dies during the strike.
No, they simply "pulled the punches" out of the trim die. The task probably took little time on the die floor
It always surprises me when corporate designers don't actually know or test how their work will behave in real life. The classic examples are hood scoops. They are often placed in low pressure aerodynamic areas where they can draw in almost no air. And like with this video's forced air louvers, if air can flow through so can water but water will behave very differently.
That is what happens when profit outweighs quality. Its a main reason why foreign car companies do so much better in sales than American car companies, the emphasis of "quality assurance" is simply ignored.
The Deck lid Inner was stamped in such a way to allow water to drain out the rear while air had to circle back to the forward area of the Deck lid
What’s an example of a low pressure area?
@@joseyzadoria7815 Not "foreign" car makers. Japanese. They stick with one design and refuse to change it. Toyota's still shipping trucks with rear drum brakes. The Europeans change stuff for the sake of change far more than Americans. (Part of it is due to the fact that European cars are driven, less than 2/3 of the miles American cars are) Go look how reliable a VW or BMW is and how many gadgets they have.
@@straightpipediesel I am going to respectfully disagree. How many foreign cars have you personally owned and driven? I detect and smell some bias from you. For starters Toyota has dominated the US car market since the late 80's because American cars were such shit in terms of terrible designs, and being unreliable. In fact two of the best all time selling cars for not only for reliability but also for resale value is the Toyota Camery and the Honda Accord. (You can look up that fact yourself) As far as Toyota still shipping Trucks with rear Drum brakes, please cite source that supports that assertion, this is the first time I have ever heard that claim.
Lets list a few American cars that were among the worst and almost sunk the American Car industry shall we grandpa?
1. Reliant K car
2. Pinto
3. 79 to 85 Cutless Supreme
4. Chevy Chevette
5. Dodge Durango
6.Chevy Lumina
7, Cadillac Cimmeron (What the fuck was this? No serious! What the fuck was this garbage?)
8. Chrysler PT Cruiser
9. Pontiac Aztek
10.Dodge Omni
11.Ford Explorer
12. Chevy SSR
13. AMC Gremlin
14 AMC Pacer
15. Chevy Citiation
16. Ford Mustang II
17. Dodge Aspen
18. Olds/Buick/Chevrolet/Pontiac Diesels
19. Renault Alliance
20. Chevy Vega
These are just a few as I am sure I can probably find more to put on this list especially the years in the late 70's and 80's where its widely accepted knowledge that these were the worst years for American cars. In fact the American car industry in today's terms can't really be considered American any more due to being owned by Chinese and Italian companies. Chevy and Chrysler to be specific.
The last American car that I owned was a 78 Mercury Cougar, which after going into a store to purchase beer only to come outside to watch it burn to the ground due to an electrical problem. It was absolute shit! After that I never owned another American car again. The car that I ended up driving and purchasing was a VW Golf. It was one of the best cars I have ever owned and I ended putting 350,000 miles on it with minimal maintenance. When I eventually traded it in for a Mercedes Diesel, that car was still running strong. The misconception about VW's is the ones that came from Germany (Wolfberg Editions) vs. the ones that were imported from Mexico. The ones that were assembled in Mexico and imported to the US market had all sorts of problems and were not the same in quality than cars imported from Germany. Car enthusiasts will confirm that fact. The Mercedes that I owned was a 1985 300D Turbo Diesel and it was also one of the best cars I have ever owned and a lot of those cars are still on the road today due to being able to easily convert to Bio-Diesel. As far as BMW's depending on what Model one would purchase was hit or miss, but the M3 and M5 packages were geared toward European Performance and has a loyal following in terms of handling and reliability. I drove a few of them and their fuel management system along with their road handling put American cars to shame.
I also owned 3 Toyota Land Cruisers and absolutely loved those vehicles for not only their off-road handling capability but also their reliability.
The only thing I will say about American cars is that they have improved in the last 20 years, and most notably they are known for their trucks and Diesel engines. (Although Chevy's experiment with putting diesels into cars failed miserably whereas the German cars were much better with their designs when it came to diesels) Ford trucks or the Ram diesel is something I would consider buying for not only their capability for towing and durability, but also their resale value is reasonable, (although given recent gas prices I am not sure what that looks like currently). Speaking of Ford, they are the only American car company that can be still consider American, and didn't have to take a US funded bail out and is still widely sold through out the world.
Aside from owning and driving the vehicles you so disparagingly speak of, I also worked in the car industry for several years as a Sales specialist, so I actually know what I am talking about when it comes to cars in general, and I have no bias when it comes to evaluating cars for both their quality and reliability. My biggest sellers were always Japanese.
Chevy used a system called Astro Ventilation starting in 1968, but it didn’t have trunk louvers. A friend’s 68 Caprice 4dr hardtop had this. It actually worked ok, but the 396 under the hood made it even better.
Didn't they add that to replace the vent windows? It worked fine until the cars were downsized in the late 1970s and the dashboard vents were fan-forced to save space, even if you didn't have AC. The problem was that the heater still trickled all summer unless you installed a manual cutoff valve.
I've known about this problem, yet I still have an affinity for the 71 B & C bodies - the louvers do look 'cool'. And in most cases the 71's were slightly more attractive than the 72's, which in turn were better than the 73's and then the whole design got homogenized, smoothed and lost most of its character.
The 71s were also faster!
I had a '71 Eldorado convertible, it was a lovely car, and since it was a convertible the cabin was drafty enough i had no monoxide issues
Hey Adam - I always enjoy your videos. I was pleasantly surprised to see one of my old cars in this video at the 2 minute mark. I owned the white ‘71 Olds Custom Cruiser for several years around 2008 to 2012 or so. Definitely miss that one - should have kept it! Keep up the good work!
Nice car, always liked the motor driven tailgate that opened with the turn of the key.
neat!
I think the '71 Olds (Ninety-Eight) Custom Cruiser was the best looking wagon of all wagons - also loved the 'clamshell" tailgate. Never did see very many of them back then and definitely don't see any of them today.
I had several '70s GM vehicles with forced ventilation, and had no complaints. The defining characteristics (which to my observation did not change when the trunk louvres were eliminated) were the mandatory low speed fan (once the coolant was up to temperature in cold weather), and a mandatory high speed fan when recirculated air was selected (and even then a percentage of the air was fresh). The A/C was so powerful that the rather authoritarian programming just seemed to go with the theme. You were going to be saved from the perils of unexchanged cabin air whether you wanted to be or not.
CO2 prisoning? protection? as the piper charkee air plane had some deaths from it and a recalls
That probably did prevent a fair number of "lovers lane" CO deaths, so it seems like a reasonable feature.
I especially hated the default to Hi when Recirc was selected. Also, placing the Recirc feature in the warm-cold slider seemed silly, especially coming off '70 and earlier when each brand had its own HVAC system with intuitive controls that you could set as you pleased. FoMoCo had much better controls and in '72 began using GM's superior A-6 compressor in T-Birds and Lincolns and in all the big cars in '75 on to replace the noisy York reciprocating compressor. In the meantime, GM went to the annoying CCOT system in '77 with its cycling compressor and the horrible little C-4 pancake compressor that was good for about a year.
dumb question so if the fan parts of the system where designed better for NVH aka biger motor/fan so it spun slower would that have helped make it feel more luxurious? as mini spits in homes now do some of the same things
@@jazzvictrola7104 I got a electric compressor in my GM hybrid ICE cold 35F. in the summer even if it's 110f outside... I have to bring my hamburger earmuffs with me the cabin gets so cold i can see my breath
You do a great job with your videos. I'm a classic care enthusiast so I find your topics very informative
Those '71 Toronados are gorgeous.
it’s something so interesting learning about gimmicks car companies did back then, alot of these things are either drastically redesigned or impossible to replicate
You are a wealth of information. This channel is going to go places!! Brace yourself!!! I grew up with many of the vehicles you speak of, and you are 100% spot on.
Another worst automotive feature was the horn on the stalk of 1983 Ford Thunderbird and Mercury Cougar. One could never find the horn quickly! Horrible feature.
Yes! The ultimate in cost cutting. I’m surprised it was even legal to have the horn button not in a “panic” location.
81-85 Escort/Lynx & Tempo/Topaz the same. It's very easy to rob horn contact parts from later cars to put the horn back where it belongs as I did for my '82 Escort years ago but still, have to wonder what the hell they were thinking.
I've worked on many late 90s International 3800 school buses that use the exact same turn signal switch from so long ago. The vestigial function for the old horn switch is still there because you can still push in on the stalk just like those cars but it doesn't do anything.
Ford put the horn on the signal stalk in anticipation of airbags. This was their solution instead of figuring out how to keep the horn button on the wheel pad.
The 1st time we went to use the horn in Ford Faimont in an emergency on an urban street we almost got hit as we could not find the horn activation switch! 1 of Fords dumber ideas!
Ah yes, these were even installed on Ford Australia's Ford Falcons. Good to see that this flawed design went global!
I owned a 1971 Impala with the louvered trunk lid. Lots of folks thought I had them added trying to be cool. I just told them that I ate a lot of beans and that solved the problem.
Love your channel. It’s full of the kind of nerdy stuff that I deep dive on all the time. Only you’ve done all the hard work already! Thanks! The louvers look nice on the Riviera for sure!
My folks had a 1971 Bonneville, and an uncle had a 1971 Buick (LaSabre, I think); both had massive leaks in the trunk that could never be fixed. Thanks for the video, I'd forgotten about this "feature" from the Malaise Era.
1971 was not malaise era lol
Adam you did a good job with this video I particularly prefer your having shown pictures of the vehicles instead of just your face talkin it was a lot more palatable as a viewer to just gaze upon pictures of these lovely Vehicles just listening to your silky smooth voice a winning formula!
I am quickly falling in love with this channel. Congratulations. Very interesting. And thank you so much.
An excellent overview of this feature, Adam. As a kid, I noticed that even the '73 and newer Chevrolet/GMC trucks had this same feature.
did you know 1966 Studebakers had a non power vent system that had vents from trunk thru top of rear tail lights...
Yes! I remember those. Rare, because they only sold a few 66s.
I remember when this system debuted and how unpopular it was. I read John DeLorean’s book “On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors” where John DeLorean talked about how much money GM spent retrofitting these cars to solve some of it’s myriad of problems. In theory it was a good idea. I always tell people how when I was a small child I was allowed to stand up in the front seat between my parents when driving and they were both heavy smokers. There were no child safety seats in those days. It’s surprising that many of us are still here today.
Yeah, about 1969 I was standing up in the front seat of my aunt's car, looking out the back window. She had to hit the brakes when a car turned in front of her. I hit the dash and broke my lower back.
Smoking and playing on the phone are two different things
@@allegory7638 That sounds pretty horrible. Hope you fully recovered.
@@V8_screw_electric_cars I wish they would actually ticket azzholes who insist on motor mouthing on their damn cell phones while driving.
@Account NumberEight Yuk.
Continue learning facts I knew not before this video. Plus information giving knowledge which may improve purchasing power or simply great conversation points. Highly recommend the topics , concerns and information discovered throughout these videos. Thanks again !!
Back in 1976 while I was in elementary school, we took a field trip to Philadelphia to see the Liberty bell and see the movie “1776”. On the way back to NY there was a dark green Chevrolet Vega that passed our bus doing about 80 mph. When it got about 200 yards ahead of the bus, the hood popped open and from the force of wind, ripped by it off the car and it went flying over the car behind it and flung to the side of the highway. The man driving the Vega pulled over and got out, LAUGHING HIS ASS OFF while walking back to retrieve the hood of his car.
I’ll never forget it.
I could very much be mistaken and happy to be corrected if I'm wrong but I thought the Vega had a front hinged hood. If I'm wrong please let me know
Thanks Adam for sharing another informative video 👍
Interesting video, the 72 system of door jam exhaust vents wasn’t new. Just about all GM cars in 69 (and some without vent windows in 67-68) used door jam pressure relief vents to release cabin air. In those years AC cars had a low rather than off position for the HVAC fan but non AC cars had an off position for the fan.
Thank you for schooling us about that one year feature, and what they were trying to acheive. Loved the pictures.
Am I the only one who has never noticed any rear vents on any car ever? I feel like I should have seen this before in my 40 years.
Adam, another great video. I remember something called “Astro Ventilation” on 69 and newer GM when they eliminated most of the vent windows.
68 actually, is when the vent windows disappeared. Astro Ventilation was cool, they even put a decal with those words where the vent window used to be, on a 68 Caprice, I know.
Vent windows disappeared on the coupes first. The sedans still had them in 69.
@@jnucci1 My '68 Fleetwood had 4 of the, but my '69 Sedan Deville had none. I think certain coups like the Riviera and Camaro lost them before the sedans. Fairmonts and Crown Vics still had the option well into the 1980s; must have kept some Ford customers loyal.
Reminds me a little of the old station wagons where you could roll down the window on the tailgate. This turn the vehicle into a gas chamber, sucking your exhaust right back into the cabin.
EVERY Van I have had, back windows that opened...Never had a problem.
I absolutely remember that. We had a 1970 Vista Cruiser and a 1973 Custom Cruiser and more often than not, it was fume city if the rear window was open, unless you were moving.
@@big2868 Old times. Carbon monoxide coupled with some lead.
I had a 63 Buick LeSabre wagon where that same thing happened. It was awful and I could never understand it.
@@big2868 They seem to be the same places to me...I don't remember my mom's 72 Pontiac Safari wagon being a problem with window down except the DUST on gravel roads...Also Problematic on Vans, not only do the glass on vans pop open, they are also removable (though most people didn't know this) I have Dual Pipes straight out the back on my 1971 Ford Ranch Wagon 429, but it has A/C so I haven't driven much with that back window open...(I imagine it would be BAD, with those pipes under the bumper though.)
Just got recommended your channel, and subscribed right away. Keep it up :)
While I didn't get familiar with any of the cars shown here, I gotta say- the front vents that worked with the front quarter windows in the early 70's Novas were a smokers dream!
Yeah, this system certainly must have promoted quick rusting. And yeah, those vinyl tops held water and caused quick rusting also.
Yeah, I remember my buddy's parents 72 Impala four door with the vinyl top, water sure got trapped in those corners. That car rusted quickly. That issue wasn't quite so bad on my 73 Caprice coupe because the rear window extended down behind the metal panel before the trunk, and there was no vinyl down there to trap the water. I wonder how they sealed the joint between the body air exit into the trunk...
Why wouldn't GM force this "design" on the public? They forced the Vega on an unsuspecting public. One of the worst cars of all time.
Compared to a Pinto, a Vega was a Rolls Royce!
"Water getting frozen in trunk" This is brilliant engineering! During snow months having weigh on back of a rear-wheel drive car is always good!
Really excellent and entertaining video. Takes me back to high school. Thanks
I believe the 1968 corvette had the first gm forced ventilation. It was called " Astro Ventilation ".
Astro Ventilation took cowl air and blew it thru vents in the kick panels and didnt use a fan so probably not. When you stopped the air stopped too.
My 1979 Chevrolet Monte Carlo had the improved flow through ventilation system with the door jamb louvers. The fan would not operate below freezing due to a temperature sensor mounted under the dash.
It's interesting that many of GM's foreign divisions did NOT adopt this system mainly because the local engineers could see the pitfalls of it. GM's Aussie outpost (Holden) rejected it out of hand, not because of the ice issue but because the local engineers could see the possibility of exhaust blow-back and also because the system would create havoc on outback roads full of red dust. All Aussie car makers had to make sure that their cars limited dust entry on country roads. So, in the 1971 year, Holden introduced their own "flow through" system which did not need the fan to be on. This happened in the HQ series cars (all Aussie Holdens have a two letter model designation...the last Australian made Holdens designated "VF"). Aussie Holdens also offered a vinyl roof option starting in the 68 model year (HK) but Holden's system involved finishing the fixing holes with extra adhesive which offered protection against rust. The final outcome of that was that the cars did not rust at the rear pillars at all BUT they sometimes collected water through the vinyl roof side seams which collected in the centre of the roof which then could lead to rust. It was very much the luck of the draw.
Here's an interesting contemporary road test of the '71 model which mentions the flow through ventilation:
www.whichcar.com.au/features/classic-wheels/1972-holden-hq-kingswood-road-test
My parents had a 73 Chevy Vega GT and it had the louvers in the hatch. The louvers leaked and we often found standing water in the well where the spare was located. Our Vega was Gold which was fitting as it was a big ole LEMON.
Ahhh, the Vega. So promising....
I feel that from the 40s onwards, gimmicks were all the rage. Many of these gimmicks failed, but some developed to become standard equipment in many cars. For example, moisture-activated windscreen wipers.
I'm annoyed that the best non-aircon ventilation system for cars ever developed has been made obsolete over the years. I speak with reverence of the 'Quarter Glass Window'. May this wonderful item of automotive history rest in peace, and may it one day have a resurgence in popularity.
Great video👍🏼 a lot of history and a lot of insight on this Year of GM vehicle. You got a New Subscriber right here ✌🏼
Super informative concerning a feature I was not aware of. Thanks!
It was called "flow through ventilation", as on my parent's '71 Bonneville. It was never a problem, I'm assuming it was designed because the cars no longer had wind wings, and my dad never went to the car wash in freezing temperatures.
We got it on our HQ Holden here in Australia. The extractor was in the C pillar area between the belt line and the dogleg. The LX Torana had the same system but on the Hatchback, the extractor was at the base of the B pillar. Fan assistance was at the driver’s discretion - Off, Low and High
Adam...Great video topic....It really "blows" no pun intended. I had both a 1971 Vega Wagon...in Maine, and a 1971 Impala Convertible...in upstate NY and in Iowa. It was always freezing, and in the winter impossible to get warm.
My 79 Camaro Berlinetta 350 also has the blower Motor starting if you turn ignition on. Not possible to stop, but in the 21 years I own it here in Germany no problem for a now 60.000 miles car, only driven for fun at sunny days. Best regards and thank you for your interesting stories of American classic cars.
They certainly made identifying a 1971 GM of any brand easy. I had a couple of cars with these vents, but never had any problems with them.
My dad had a '71 Chevy Caprice for about twenty years and never had any trouble with the ventilation system and never any rust issues in the trunk either.
First and second gen Firebirds were notorious for having trunk leaks.
Yeah, but for a different reason. The bottom part of the rear window frame was almost horizontal and only took a little bit of dirt or leaf pieces to block the drain holes under the rear window trim. The channel under the trim would then collect water and rust through and that would let the water drain into the trunk. You needed a special tool and some skill to take the window trim off and clean out the dirt that collected under it.
Ok I for one being a life long non smoker loved the way that system worked, especially in the 71 Toronado I owned. That I bought used for peanuts during OPEC III, in I believe 1981? It only had 48,000 miles on a premium gas 455 Rocket engine, with the TH425 FWD system that was utterly fantastic on all roads and surfaces, especially in snow and rain, that could be up to 10” deep and I would just plow through! Especially after I installed 4 studded Firestone Town&Country Snow tires on the 15” Toronado exclusive wheels. That were the biggest sized 15” Town&Country tires I could find. Plus I added MOOG Cargo Coil rear springs with HD Munromatic Shocks all around, plus cranked up the front torsion bars to gain over an inch front an rear, I tried to get more in front, but could not get the alignment to specs. But that car was amazing! I could fit 6 big guys in comfort for road trips, splitting the gas up for road trips up north to ski, with a roof rack holding all the skis and the truck all our other stuff!
I've had a 72 Toronado for a couple years now and I love it
Such a simple but enjoyable video, thank you
I learned something new. Great video - perfect length too
Musty smell also might be an old rat nest,possibly with a dead rat in it.🤣 My uncle picked up a nice old Cadillac limousine. We took it to a rock concert. It was the first time that car had been driven in a long time. It was winter time and it started to get cold back there. One of my brothers made the mistake of asking him if he could turn on the rear heat. Now the heat did work,but it also blew out this horrendously horrible smell. OMG was it bad. About a week later I went down to his place to hopefully track down where the smell was coming from. I found it with one of those cameras that are mounted in a flexible tube thingy. He bought one at Harbor Freight fairly cheap. Without it,we never would have been able to find that rat nest in the heat duct. Since then,I bought one too. They come in really handy. Also used it to see what was going on with my neighbor's early 2000's jeep grand Cherokee. Used it to look down the spark plug holes. Found dropped valve seat without completely removing the head. Well it needed to come off anyway to fix /replace the head,but at least we knew exactly what needed to be done.
Bet it was a mouse and not a rat.
My 71 Buick Estate has a vinyl roof that is in need of replacement, and under the vinyl is just a thin coat of red primer. GM didn't bother to paint a roof if it was getting vinyl on it, but it was Lacquer primer they used, and that is not at all moisture proof, so rust spread rapidly at the edges. They didn't care about longevity at all. The backside of all the body shell is bare steel, so keeping it garaged and dry is important. I'm doing away with the vinyl when the car is restored- Good riddance.
Wandering through the junkyards, every vinyl top had rust underneath, to some extent. A bad idea, just for show. At least the truck bed liners served a practical purpose, until the moisture trapped beneath rotted out the bed----Oops, nobody saw that coming either.
Great overview and helpful at understanding these vehicles. My stepmother had the 71 Sedan Deville, color was Primrose Firemist, it had the louvers you mention. That said I had several GM vehicles, restored several in Corvallis Oregon. Let me tell you vinyl roofs were a nightmare in a region where it rains night and day. The trunks were always full of water, partly too from rear window which always leaked. I bought a '64 Riviera at Portland which I restored, the rear floor boards were full of water on the lot! Fought leaks on that car endlessly, think there just isn't a car that can with withstand the deluge of rain and moisture in the Northwest (at least a vintage one). The only salvation is a garage. The only classic car I owned for many years was a '69 Eldorado, to my recall it never leaked. Finally I fled to the Southwest!
As I was watching this excellent video, I remembered many cars where the issues you covered were problems for friends and family who had some of these General Motors cars. The 70’s were the beginning of GM , Chrysler & Fords’ slide into mediocrity and ruin as they ignored what their customers wanted , and were buying from Japan , Germany , and later South Korea .
Hi Adam, I enjoy your knowledge! Thank you! I was wondering if this was why the 71(?) Riviera with the louvard trunk was a 1 yr only design? Thanks again
I love setting off smoke bombs in my car to see how well it’s cabins filters are working!
Totally different generation of vehicle here, but I really appreciated the outside air vent under the steering column of our old '91 Grand Caravan. You could get fresh air blowing directly on you with the windows rolled up. Really good for not having highway speed air buffeting in through the side windows, or needing to have the windows down when it rained. It worked even better when the rear vent windows were opened.
Aston Martin had a problem with a build-up of fumes in the cabin with the '67 onward DBS. Customers complained that if they had their side windows half down they got fumes in the cabin. AM came up with a solution of course - they told customers to drive with the windows either fully up or fully down (true).
Good idea…on paper
Cool idea, but obviously a major failure. It's interesting how ford had an existing comparable system that worked fine, yet gm missed the ball so hard. For me personally, I'd rather just have good old vent windows for circulation- but I almost always have the windows open anyeays, unless it's super hot out and I'm using ac.
Yeah but Ford had their horrible power steering system, some have wondered, why in the age of industrial spying, they didn't find out why GMs power steering system was so superior and duplicate it, don't forget Ford's infamous transmission that would jump out of gear and run over the person who walked behind it to retrieve their paper
I'm glad you mentioned that full-sized GM cars of this era had rusting issues around the rear window areas. My 1st car was a 1972 Impala post 4 door without the vinyl top and had this issue. The trunk was filled with water, so I drilled holes on at the base of the rear quarter panels and it all drained out. Living in California, wasn't too bad.
props on using the correct name for the "tulip panel" . i've been in autobody for 30+ years, have even worked in a few restoration shops and nobody i have ever come across knows that name.
If they had positive air pressure venting out of the louvers, how did exhaust get sucked in? Or, was it also acting as an intake? The video seems to suggest otherwise.
You crack a front window and it may cause a backflow . Air has funny ways of going where you don't want it to.
Its a GM. Certainly the fan was underpowered for the task
It amazes me how such a wealthy company that sold tons and tons of units made many bad engineering decisions
Nepotism was strong back then in the automotive industry
bad engineering is often very good for the wallets of the actual engineering 'decision makers', the board of directors.
Well, they haven't changed much. I did a Vortech 2800 timing chain and tensioner a few months ago. It was the most wretched hostile engineering I've ever dealt with, the job would have been easier with the engine pulled out of the truck.
They ALL had bad ideas from time to time
@@jefferyepstein9210 You can see this with how overnight the Auto industry stopped producing bland late 90s to to late 2000s automotive designs. It's as if a whole generation of engineers & designers retired. Even Kias today smoke BMWs in design from just few years ago.
Look at the rocket industry. The whole point of the SLS rocket program is to keep engineers around long enough to draw a pension. Right now everyone seems to be hoping that SpaceX goes away so they can continue to produce rocker designs from the 1970s.
Thanks for this informative video! I'm completely redesigning the HVAC system in my old truck (classic Dodge Dorito dashboard), and this is giving me some insight!
:3
Well explained! Found myself invested and entertained, even while multitasking.
Tornadoes looks sick 👌🏽❤️🔥
SICK? The Tornado was a FANTASTIC looking car.
Mmmmm... Toronadoes.🤤🤤🤤
Hmmm, an interesting pluralism, like tomatoes !!
Very informative. Thank you.
I remember seeing those events when I was just a kid however I had no idea what they were for. Not until I watched this video. Thanks for posting this.