Jazz Greats Use THIS Instead of the Altered Scale
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- The Altered Scale can be really hard to use during your improvised solos, but many musicians want to get that sound into their playing. Luckily, we can learn from the jazz greats like Cannonball Adderley, Dexter Gordon and the modern genius Patrick Bartley to see how they get the altered sound into their solos, without relying on an awkward scale!
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0:45 The Altered Scale
2:33 Cannonball Adderley
4:10 Dexter Gordon
5:04 Patrick Bartley
6:25 Why does this trick work?
8:21 Why is the trick useful?
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I'm a simple man, I see Pat, I click.
That's really overused, dude.
I feel like a lot of the best jazz musicians don't pick one way or the other to think about it, but have spent so much time understanding how it works that they have multiple ways to think about it and hence multiple perspectives to approach it from.
Heavy concepts simplified and the theoretical explanation. Great job. For those of us who didn’t go to music school, this stuff is gold. Stuff you can put to work on the gig (practice first!) right away. THANK YOU.
Thanks man, I really appreciate it! Making all of this stuff digestible and accessible for people that haven't gone to music college is absolutely what I'm trying to do across the channel!
Thanks for the high quality analysis. I appreciate because I only went to business school. At 80 years old, I love learning what I can about music!
This is Pat Martino exactly… over G7: Abm (b9), Bm (3rd), Fm (7th), Dm (5th)…. From most dissonant to consonant…Pats Linear Expressions, Dorian on all chords. Take some time and get under the fingers, it’s invaluable…
Long ago I picked up a similar cheat code from guitarist Emily Remmler. She used the Major scale of the raised 5th in her turnarounds. So against a II-V-I in G, for example, she would pass through Eb Major against the V chord. Both Eb minor and Eb major work well here, as both F# (minor 3rd of Eb) and G (major 3rd of Eb) fall within the dominant scale of G. Very cool stuff.
That's another great tip if you want to avoid the #11, thanks for sharing!
Cool! Never thought of that, but it makes sense as the V of Abm.
Excellent! As someone who teaches, there is not enough educational content out there like this. It's inspiring to see! Oftentimes advanced topics are taught in overly and overtly complex (even convoluted) ways, when concepts like this can be distilled more simply without losing anything in the process.
Thanks, Amber, that really means a lot! I think the complexity in music theory/education can sometimes be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy - someone gets taught it in a complex way, so they then teach it to others in the same complex way, and on and on it goes. Sometimes we all just need to step back and reassess things to spot other ways of thinking about it - there were years of me struggling with the altered scale before I realised this far simpler way of getting there!
Teally helpfull. Joe Pass and Stan Getz follow this approach as well, with a very strong sense of melody, which makes it great.
Thanks Rick, I'm glad you found it helpful! Joe Pass is someone I've not really checked out (guitarists are a bit of a blind spot for me in general), but it's great to know that this approach isn't limited to horn players!
@@joshwakeham Oscar Peterson said that Joe was a 'genius' - used to play alongside many of the greats in 1960s and 70s - well worth listening to for a slightly different type of sound. Keep up the great work 👍
The scale comes from the minor chord on the 4th. Example A -> Dmi -> A
Scale on the Dmi is D melodic minor, which translates to the "backdoor dominant" G7#11, leading to tritone substitute C#alt
I suspect the altered scale was 'invented' at Berklee or somewhere similar (like the so-called 'be-bop scale'). It's certainly a scale and it contains all the possible alterations but I doubt many musicians actually thought of it that way. In fact until about 1955 I doubt they thought much in terms of scales at all. I've read quite a few biographies of the bop pioneers and they seemed to visualize mainly in chordal terms.
As a guitarist, this sounds super helpful! can't wait to try it out
Let me know how you get on with it!
Super ideas Sir. I'm on my way to try all these. Thanks.
Apparently I often play so called 'altered scale' by I never new it's called like this. Instead, I thing of it as half an octave diminished and half an octave whole-tone.
You're definitely right about them not thinking about not thinking about the scale when thinking about the sound it produces. I used it inadvertently for quite a few years.
4:44 **(w/ a 9th & also a maj7. W/rest of the context it kinda implies B melodic minor despite not having the 13 in that run)
Love your tone. Excellent advice
Great idea! Another way to think about it is in terms of tritone substitution -- if the chord is G7 alt, then D♭9 (chord, arpeggio, etc.) will sound great, or you could do a ii-V7 with that, which would be A♭m7-D♭9. The only note that is different between A♭ Dorian and G altered is the G♭ replacing the G natural. That G♭ plays an interesting role -- it would be the 4th of D♭ Mixolydian, so a note that is typically not held long when playing over D♭7, and as the enharmonic equivalent of the major 7th of G, it would be used in the G dominant bebop scale, also not a strong note there.
Yeah that is another great way to think of it!
@@joshwakeham -- You've really got me thinking today. Another idea: We could play G minor pentatonic or G blues over the G7, then go to the A♭ minor pentatonic (or minor added sixth pentatonic) and then to A minor pentatonic (or C major pentatonic). That seems to make it even easier to remember and learn because it's just a chromatic modulation. Of course, that assumes that the G7 resolves to C.
Natural 9 on the SUB FIVE is better NOT b9
@@ChromaticHarp -- I'm saying D♭9 or D♭7(9) NOT D♭7♭9. So I think we agree. The natural 9th of the tritone sub is the ♭13 or #5 of the dominant, so it works as an altered tone.
@@mbmillermo I’m sorry Mike, I thought you wrote b9 my bad!
Theory explains practice. Music is SOUND. Thanks for a nice way of looking at this sound.
Wow, this man earned the hell out of this like a subscribe. You put your heart and soul into this art for years and it shows!
Thank you so much - you have no idea how much that means to me!!
Great explanation. Simple explanations are so helpful. There is always such a challenge in an improvisers brain try ing to express ideas fast yet having a smooth tonal center at any given moment. Thanks look forward to hearing more!!
Wow...very nice explanations!! Thank you!
Thanks for this. I’ve been thinking something similar, but the way you put it made it all so much easier. Brilliant.
Good lesson! Thank you!
Great lesson as usual Josh. Bought your Dexter Book. Fantastic read, full of useful info.
Thanks! I'm so glad you enjoyed the book!
Very nicely explained, thank you.
Excellent Video!
great man! i will try this aproach. the triad itself sounds amazing. btw very entertaining video and "performance".
Clear and concise as ever, even I (sort of) understood it.
Cannonball line is thinking more like tri tone sunbstitution Ab minor to Db 7#11 lydian dominant. That's the vocabulary.
Yeah that's definitely another great way to think about it!
Really helpful - simplifies my thinking and improves my playing.
Really interesting explanation here Josh and I like how thinking in this way makes it really easy to get these interesting sounds in your solos. Cool!
Oh wow, thanks so much Nigel! That really means a lot coming from you!
Hi Josh, really eye-opening. That makes it much easier to come up with cool lines. Thank you!
No problem, Nestor! Thanks for watching!
Great lesson. Thanks a bunch.
Thank you!!!
The jazz greats worked out ways to not work hard . Now, their secrets are exposed. I wish i new this 20 years ago. Amazing
This is enormously helpful. I've heard this in Cannonball's playing but had no idea how to get the sound...until now!
Wow this just opened up a lot of possibilities in my brain thank you
Your video is really very good as you make a very good point and demonstrate it as well .
enjoyed. liked. subscribed. will definitely practice.
Great stuff, thanks!
This is an incredible video. Thanks for opening my eyes to this!
Thanks Patrick, that means a lot!
wonderful! Thank you!!
I’m really impressed with the effort you put into your videos: b roll, manuscript, sound effects, different framings, cut aways etc. brilliant. I wish I had time to do that these days!! 👍🏻
Oh wow thanks, Jamie! That means a lot!
@@joshwakeham you had me at the Patrick Bartley thumb though! 👍🏻🤣
@@GetYourSaxTogether that's what got me.
Thanks for the video Josh.
Thanks for watching, Scott. I hope you found it helpful!
Really cool. Clearly explained.
Very clever, useful lesson.
Eb7b5 ( eb db g a) A7( a c# e g) so em7 ( e g b d ) is essentially playing the upper structure of the parent chord when the eb chord is thought of as being an A7 with an altered root. There is a transcription of Adderlys solo on straight no chaser where his brilliance in alternate arpeggios is shown. Great video here , I subscribed! Can’t wait to see more!
Thanks for the tip - I'll check that out that solo!
Thanks for sharing!! It helps a lot!!!
Thanks for watching, it's great to hear the video was useful!
Genius. Thank u. I’ve been searching for a practical thought process to get the altered sound
I'm so glad you like the concept - it makes the altered sound so much easier to achieve!
Fabulous insight, as a guitarist I will certainly be trying to incorporate this great sound. Thanks 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
lol, i took music theory in high school and we learned that the altered scale worked over 7#9 chords one day. i went to my rock band practice later that day and tried to play the altered scale during my solo over foxey lady. me and my bandmates then dubbed it: 'the all-turd scale.'
😂 we've all tried that before! I remember clearing the dance floor on a wedding gig years ago by trying out some 'cool' altered lines. I quickly learnt my lesson on that one!
I think if you want to get a little hip and outside on a dominant 7#9 chord in a modal or blues setting, the half step whole step diminished scale is probably going to be your best bet. Think Chick Corea, Michael Brecker, Scott Henderson ect.
Awesome tutorial!!!
Thanks Jeff!
congrats for the excellent video! very good explanation, won a new follower.
Thanks, Fran! It's great to hear that you enjoyed the video!
YES!!! That was enormously helpful. This reminds me of how it finally dawned on me that playing a minor pentatonic scale two steps above a major 7th chord captures a lot of the fun extensions. Subscribed!
Thanks Michael, so great to hear the video was helpful! That minor pentatonic tip is definitely a useful one, and one I'd actually completely forgotten about - thanks for the reminder!
Thank you! I suppose another maybe clearer way to explain for would be just to play a minor pentatonic starting on the third degree of the major triad. I’m jazzed (my apologies) about your channel. You just blew the doors off for me!
Yes! Also build a minor pentatonic on the major 7th degree…for instant Lydian flavor…
@@ChromaticHarp WHOA. That is KILLER. Music just pours out when you get that lydian flavor. THANK YOU!!! Fun to vamp over Bbm7 and BM7. SO GOOD!!!
@@michaeldmytriw1047 Yes! That’s a cool Vamp!
so useful, thanks!
Thank you,Joshua🌹🌹⭐🌹🌹
very cool! picked up your books as well
Thank you so much! I hope you enjoy them!
'Later-life (old) bass player here, who has struggled with jazz harmony for nearly 30 years. The light just came in and I'm delightfully blinded by it! This is a brilliantly illuminating post. Grateful! 🙏🏽
I'm so glad you enjoyed it!
Great video man
Wow, brilliant stuff.
Phil Woods will often use the minor major 7 arpeggio a semitone up, ie Abm(maj7) over G7
Great video as ever, sir. I won't lie; this is challenging stuff but I always find your explanations engaging.
Thanks Francis. Sadly I couldn't think of a way to include the moka pot in this one!
@@joshwakeham Well, I couldn't find the words to mask my disappointment!
Amazing video!
Thanks so much!
love superimposition!
so glad i found this simple method.
Excellent!
Brilliant channel, Josh. Engaging, highly practical tips and great presentation too! :)
Thank you!
Yes well said
Thank you for the enlightening video. I'm just starting understanding how useful it is the melodic minor scale to get into this altered sound.
Thanks for watching, José! Good to hear you found it helpful. The melodic minor is such a useful scale, both for the altered sound and for other harmonic devices - I'd definitely recommend getting comfortable with it
The wrong note, namely the major seventh in a dominant, can be in the context of a major triad that has the root a major third above the dominant, and in the example you provided, the entire triad is even played. Dominants have a wide chromatic range, and your consideration is actually just one of the possibilities for thinking about altered dominants. The wrong note is not a wrong note but rather part of a chromatic alteration of the dominant. One can also think of it without chromatic alteration, considering the major triad a major third lower or a tritone lower than the dominant. Of course, the minor triad a minor second above is also an option. However, I also find the D7 a minor second higher interesting because it also introduces the raised seventh
It's great. Thank you very much
Thanks for watching, it's great to hear you enjoyed the video!
Really great tip, thank you! Been experimenting with this for a bit and for the 3 most common altered dominants I'm finding in jazz standards - the b5, #5 and b9 - what is working best is the m7 arpeggio up a half step on a #5, and a m-7b5 arpeggio up a half step on the b5 and b9. Which simplifies things hugely. Really helpful!
Oh man, thinking about arpeggios/simpler shapes is a great way to get into the more complex sounds. I'm a huge fan of that way of thinking!
Sounds good. Easy way to think about it.
Great analisys.
Thanks Bernardo!
So useful😂😂😂😂😂i am going to follow you right now❤❤❤❤❤🎉
Bravo!
Convinced me, you have. Thank you for your teaching.
Thanks for watching, Paul. It's great to hear you enjoyed the video!
Awesome!
Alternatively, you could use a triad pair on the #4 and #5, or a tritone sub as shortcuts to an altered sound.
Great video and examples!
I like to think of these instances as flat 6 minor licks over the dominant 7 chords. i.e. F minor over D7,Eb minor over G7 etc.
Thanks! I've never thought of it like that before, definitely something to explore!
The examples seems to reflect a common practice that goes way back, of playing an idea, and then playing the same idea a half-step away. This is really an alteration of the harmony.
What you're referring to is another great device to get comfortable with! But I don't think that's what's happening in these examples - none of them are played and then repeated a half-step up.
@@joshwakeham well, I think this comes from that device. Sometimes the "consonant" idea is implied and only the half-step deviation is played. However, I believe the Dexter example does use both ideas, and anyway he and Sonny Stitt often do this kind of device, where they will play an arpeggio lick, and then repeat that a half-step away. In any case, I wouldn't call an idea played a half step away from the standard harmony an alternative to the altered scale. It is really an alteration of the harmony, which is not to say that you couldn't play an idea based on an altered scale as an alteration of the harmony, but, as you note, the ideas in your examples are really just minor (or sometimes dominant chord) arpeggios a half step away from the standard harmony.
Sounds like we think about these things differently from each other. No harm in that!
Wow, this is an awesome thing to sound more hip, and it works right away! You can just do it immediately and it sounds great
Thanks for the tip! Somehow, I picture truly great players using a simple, yet logical technique, (like the minor scale 1/2 step up from the dominant) rather than the altered "rocket science" approach. I'm going to use this immediately.
Great sax tone
good vid!
Have been playing "outside" like that by ear & not knowing what was going on. Thanks. Ps. Love your Tnr sound.
Thanks Deryck, I'm glad I could help you find out what it is you've been playing!
Super simple
The way you explained it
Wow
Gonna try this right now
Let me know how you get on!
As a jazz beginner who has not played anyone else's solos very much, attempting to get my fingers and ears to invent a decent solo over a 251, this bit of info, particularly the minor triad bit, produced some great sounds. Thank you
I'm so glad it was helpful!
i remember when kevin bales taught all of us students at UNF these scales and the basis of using them in the common licks and language throughout jazz improv. major breakthrough in noodling through altered chord resolutions especially
Oh man that sounds like an enlightening lesson!
@@joshwakeham basically bringing the scale down to six notes made everything easy in a duple time system. Same thing with diminished scales being eight notes or bebop scales at eight notes
Seven note scales are lousy for eighth notes in typical jazz time signatures
Congrats on a breakout CZcams video! Also, nice teaching approach to simplify a complex idea.
Thanks Scott, that really means a lot coming from you!
Absolutely incredibly useful! and im a guitar player
excellent
If memory serves me correctly the Dexter example you show and the second Bartley part are just different ornamentation of the opening lick to Cry me a River. Stitt, Coltrane, Pepper Adams, tons of people play it in any key imaginable. I enjoy it honestly. Also the diminished and altered lines in that second Bartley snippet absolutely slap! So seamlessly weaved.
Yeah both are classic bits of vocab for sure!
thank you.
Really enlightening. You have great facial gestures. Wonderful content.
My flexible face is definitely one of my best life skills 😂
So relieved when you play, you sound great and your hands stop moving
Thanks, I guess 😂
I love the way you speaking with moving bodies XDDD
wow, that sax sounds fantastic.
I’m a jazz keyboardist, and this was a really cool explanation of the altered scale and different sounds in jazz people love but don’t know what they’re actually hearing.
Thanks, it's great to hear you found it useful!
@@joshwakeham man I’ve got to know where did you get your education? Very interesting stuff my friend
I did a postgraduate degree at Trinity Laban Conservatoire of Music and Dance here in London, studying under Jean Toussaint and Julian Siegel mostly. The main thing I learnt there was HOW to learn - I'm still getting lots of the stuff under my fingers. Everything else has just been a case of learning by transcribing and trying to keep my eyes and ears as open as possible!
Guitarists - play a G7 on the top for strings at position 3, then raise the fifth and flatten the 9th. The chord you then 'see' looks like an Abm6. I was playing over Abm on a G7#5b9 long before I knew anything about the altered scale, but maybe not so obvious to piano and horn players
very useful
Agreed on the awkwardness, especially for beginner players. And thanks for pointing out the other ways into the sound. I note that if only hearing b9 and b13 alterations on a V7, it may be being treated as the V7 in harmonic minor, the "altered scale" only coming into play later in jazz development. Switching locrian or locrian natural nine to altered scale to melodic minor always made minor ii-V7 cadences seem much more convoluted to me to play over than they sound naturally occurring in harmony. The minor 7b5 and V7b9b13 both live within the related, parent harmonic minor resolving to the parallel melodic minor. Seems easier to start with that before going for locrian natural 9 and altered scale as became common later. Cheers, Daniel
Yeah you're right. You can't tell for sure if it's altered or harmonic minor without having more of the notes. I was taught altered before harmonic minor - in fact I was originally taught that the harmonic minor shouldn't be used which is obviously not the case - which I'm sure influences my thinking during more ambiguous moments
Welp. That was excellent. Good work, dude
Thanks!