Pit Fire Pottery In The Yard They Said! It Will Be Fun, They Said!
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- In which I follow some old notes on how to pit fire pottery with charcoal and get in over my head.
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CHAPTERS
0:00 A new way to pit fire pottery?
1:19 Building the pit in my front yard
2:00 Who is Michael Hawley?
4:21 Let's get this fire started!
5:38 Setting the pot in the fire
7:08 Bringing the pot up to temp
8:02 Smothering the fire
9:42 How I learned to fire pottery
11:04 Opening the pit
12:08 What went wrong?
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I was told by a teacher a loooong time ago; 'You have to be confused before you can learn something new'. I find it comforting to remember that sometimes. Well, quite often actually... I do love your videos!
Thanks, if confusion is part of the learning process than I am learning now!
I’m so happy that you upload the videos when things don’t go quite as planned…
There’s so much you can learn about what went wrong… Very helpful. Great video. 👍
Sorry to see it didn’t yield the expected result, but looking forward to the re-fire.
Thanks
@@AncientPotteryDo you have Peruvian/inca styled pottery?
That lump charcoal has wood covered with charcoal dust as a filler,... it looks like charcoal, but has wood... my suggestion would be remedial sherds, or "cover sherds" with that kind of charcoal, or making your own charcoal so you know there is not wood chunks in there, I have gotten good results from home made charcoal without remedial sherds, but all lump charcoal I have tried has wood pieces in there,.. I would also recommend fanning the coals at peak temps, to remove the carbon.. Its that orange glow that tells us we are around 850C and we only get there by fanning... after fanning, I would smother it.... or just repeat what you did here with home made charcoal... Love the video, and love the information! It just felt good to watch!!! Thanks and we are working on getting the right amount of carbon and copper for a patina effect! I love Patina look, even though most of my customers do not... LOL needless to say I like that carboned pot more than a clean one!
Thanks Mark. Ever onward!
I know the results weren't what you wanted. But it is actually a beautiful pot. I love the spontaneous results creating a misty, smoky affect that hint of hidden secrets.
You see, it's all a matter of perspective. Thanks for sharing yours.
I agree the pot has much beauty, it is perfectly imperfect.
This was fun to watch. We learn from our "failures." I kept thinking of someone 1000 years ago going through the same steps...
Andy. The end result shows that air leaked in during the smothering phase, obliviously.
It is possible that your pit lining was too porous, or too thin, and micro cracks developed.
It is my opinion that being slopped at the top has nothing to do with it.
If the goal is to keep oxygen out, then for a small pot, I would use a 20 inch metal farm tub as a liner, and make a concrete lid with fiberglass gasket to fit it.
Also, before putting the lid on, I would sprinkle cracked charcoal on top of the burning charcoal so it would burn off the oxygen that is in the pit.
Good luck.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I like the way the pot came out. It looks old. I like that.
Your pottery is absolutely beautiful! Thank you for sharing!
Thank you! 😊
I love how your videos are so informative
Glad you think so!
I feel many of us are scratching our heads as too why it did not work! But remember Wes and one other potter had this result and upon refire they had success !
Oh I'm going to re-fire it, I am already making plans.
trial and error is the master, cheers
You know that Andy!
@@AncientPottery Andy, indeed it's a rocky adventure. Firing bowls and mugs tomorrow, so up with the lark, cheers
THANK YOU!!!!!! I am so glad I found your channel!! I can't wait to try all these great ideas!!
You are so welcome!
Definitely should try again with the original instructions
If all else fails, read the instructions.
I'd try it using lump charcoal from wood, rather than briquettes. I bought a 40 pound bag at Costco for $12, but it's probably gone up. I'm pretty sure lump burns hotter than briquettes. Did you aim your temperature gauge at it? Maybe you smothered too soon? Many questions. I hope you experiment more. I've used an old Weber to do low fires in (warning, it destroys the finish on the Weber) with my middle school kids, and they were successful, but we weren't going for pure black and white, just a ceramic. It was wild clay collected from up around the San Juan near Bluff, UT, and the pieces came out a nice buff color. Fun video, Andy, and always inspiring. Thanks.
Thanks. This was hardwood lump charcoal $15 for 15 pounds at Home Depot.
Love the pattern on that pot. So cool
Thank you! 😊
You need more coal to produce more carbon monoxide which creates your syngas reducing mixture. A good rule of thumb we use with primitive smelting is about 95 to 99 percent volume of charcoal to convert most of the iron in ore over(for ceramics this is usually a lot higher compared to the ore volume and can actually take far less time as there is a large thin surface area to convert). You might also make sure you are using non comercially produced charcoal to reduce the amount of tarring agents in your fire or use coke or forge charcoal. We make our own using a charcoal kiln specially made for it. My conclusion is there wasn't enough charcoal to produce your reducing gas and you could try adding more charcoal around the pot as you go for a much longer burn or go with the original recipe you have. Also make sure the dimensions of your pit are correct to the pit instructions rather than your project piece as the mixture of gas in the pit itself not how big of a piece you are firing is the important bit here.
To reiterate points you could try
1 more coal and possibly a longer burn (carbon monoxide method)
2 More oxygen and heat during the burn (heat method with increased risk of melting the pot)
It would be awesome to see you replicate a Waco from Peru
Awesome and interesting video, with surprising results. It looked like the pit was sealed really well, but I'm suspecting somewhere some oxygen was reintroduced in the cool down to turn those reds that red? Lot of interesting stuff to digest here. Can't wait to see the next tests from you!
I think you must be right, I have no idea where that oxygen came from but it was indeed there. I hope to try again next week.
If mine came out looking like that, it would be a win for me. Lol I'm a total failure when it comes to firing pots.
Keep practicing you will improve
Not a failure in my eyes- you know it didn’t work! It can be crossed off the list! It’s still a beautiful pot even though the results weren’t what you were shooting for 💕
True, thank you.
This is fascinating!!! New subscriber.
Thanks and welcome
You might try a 'Dakota fire hole' for higher temperature.
I am familiar with that method and it could be used to make this type of pottery. I am hoping to find a way that might have been used by the ancient potters, and there is no evidence that they ever dug air vents into their fire pits.
Can you refire the pot in your old way that yielded the black and white you want?
Yes, I am planning some sort of combination firing for next time.
I'm really curious to know what happened with that pot. Love how your videos encompass the whole outdoor firing experience, successful or otherwise.
There is a lot to learn here, and failures teach more than successes. Thanks
I think it did not get hot enough and also you cannot have coals touching the pot. The 6 inches of coals underneath will burn down and allow no coals to be on top of the pot.
No, you can have coals touching the pot as I have demonstrated in many of my pottery firing videos. And the method outlined in the notes I was following definitely called for coals over the pot. But hey, there are many ways to skin that cat.
I'm not really a potter but not enough heat should at least be considered as a factor. I make charcoal by smothering it in a metal bucket and that thing goes cold fast once it spends all the oxygen (which is pretty much immediately because it's a bucketful of hot charcoal with just a few cups of air inside at best).
I'd blame the Rockboard it is very porous and probably leaked air. If you stop and look in the time where you remove the rockboard there were cracks in it and your mud. Pre treat/temper your hole prior to firing with all mud and then the only wetness will be on top of the rockboard as you probably should have coated it as well. Also the extra six inches coals in my humble opinion was to allow your surrounding dirt/sand/mud to heat up and remove extra steam from the earth before smothering. I have a stone slab that will work for this and may try to replicate this and see what happens. I will have to go back and see which colors and materials you used for this one. When I do I will let you know what my results were!
Thanks for the feedback, I am planning a re-try soon
Great video. I wouldn't call it a failure. But I understand it is not what you were shooting for. I just rented a campsite and fired 12 little pots this weekend. This is a process of letting go as the pit is used by many. I like that but for your work, probably not. All 12 fired with beautiful pinks purples yellow spots white pin point dots. Some may not like that look but some do. I love where you planted your pit!
Thanks, sounds like you are doing good, would love to see a picture of your pots.
I'd share a pic but I don't know how.
Really good story telling; great video. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
gracias por compartir tus experiencias. Saludos desde Chile.
hey Andy! sorry your firing didn't work out, it looked promising. i still think you should try smothering with wet vegetation. the steam might be the key and i think green plants are the only way to gently and evenly add water to the equation. i dunno if there are any salty areas near you but halophytic plants would probably be ideal. good luck with your experiments!
Thanks, it is still on my list of things to try.
Hmm, maybe a corn cob or more, just might be the trick. You have me intrigued about it also. Corn was also very religious aspect of the area.
Hey Andy I fired my first pieces today I am so happy how they turned out they came out mostly black which is so awesome and what I wanted I dont really know how I did that though lol I need to learn more. I learned why you do a thin layer of slip too because the ones I slipped the slip pretty much cracked off Im so happy though thank you Professor Ward you have taught me a new skill I think I am officially a potter now that I was able to successfully fire some pottery from foraged clay I thought you would like to hear the results of one of your youtube students. Thank you Sir
I love that you share your experiments!
Thank you!
👍
Thank you. Your pottery experiments are very interesting.
Glad you like them!
I just watched your video about Hopi coal-fired pottery. Perhaps you need to pile the charcoal over the pot like the lignite coal blocks.
Just my thought, but I'm thinking the problem might be with the cement board. I imagine that it is more porous than one would think. Might be worth the extra expense in obtaining the sandstone flagstone the notes called for.
Could be
I've been thinking about this and might have an idea. Is it possible that the whites on the pots were protected by a layer of painted-on protection leaving only the blacks exposed to the fire? I came to this after thinking of a home made recipe called Starlight that is a pretty efficient fire protection trick. And since it's entirely made from stuff like flour, corn starch, baking soda and sugar, it's not impossible that something like that was used by the ancients and eventually dropped when less labor intensive methods were discovered.
Maybe, let's see some experimental archaeology on this.
🙏☺️🧡🤗👍👍👍 cross this one. 🤔Perhaps quality of wood used for barbecues?
Thanks, this was hardwood lump charcoal that I have successfully used before for firing pottery.
What a great thing to share. Thanks. There is a lot to learn from that firing.
You're welcome, glad you liked it
Hi Andy it a that's some really good pottery try getting alot of smoke when trying to reduce the iron the smoke help choke out the air or oxygen as you know it
Good video. I would think using sherds or letting it burn down more would reduce fire clouds. Oxygen from somewhere??
True, I think allowing it to burn longer would probably solve the carbon issues. The oxygen is the real mystery to me.
Could the problem have been using red bag culinary charcoal? It’s cooked a bit “juicy”, to create flavor smoke. I’ve noticed fresh charcoal takes the heat away from a our little viking-style side-blown smithing forge quite dramatically and takes a surprising time to come up to fire.
Hmm, maybe. I have used this kind of cheap charcoal to fire pottery before. I think it's more likely that I didn't let it burn long enough
@@AncientPottery Well, that would be consistent with it being a bit undercooked out of the bag, as I’ve experienced. Good luck with the next firing.
That's a real mystery. Clearly air is getting in there somehow. I would guess that the concrete board cracked early in the process and leaked enough air. Maybe some kind of sheet metal would be better as a cover? Maybe an old garbage can lid if they still make metal trash cans in your region.
Yes they do have metal trash can lids but most of them have holes where the handles attach so they are not suitable for sealing off the fire.
@@AncientPottery Check a couple of different hardware stores would be my recommendation. I recently got some metal trash cans from a hardware store and the lids have no handles which I find annoying for my use for them but would be useful for this purpose. Pretty sure I got them at Lowes, either that or Home Depot, but pretty sure it was Lowes. I'm a state over but some region so worth giving a look imo.
I wish I had your talent😊
It’s more interesting to see the failures.
For sure!
If I had to guess, I would say that your charcoal had too many volatiles. Which is odd to say, since wood itself has many volatiles. Charcoal burns differently than wood. Water is also present in sizeable quantities among the products of combusting wood, but not in the products of combusting charcoal.
The yellow flames above the coals suggests a sooty fuel. The likely source of the carbon patches on the pot. The blue flames suggest the burning of what may be carbon monoxide (which is also responsible for reducing iron oxide into iron).
I think that you might need to burn through an entire pile of that charcoal around the pot so that it becomes surrounded by volatile-free charcoal. Maybe add a few waterlogged pieces of coal. Maybe fill the pit with a quarter volume of coal. Burn it to an eight volume of volatile-free coals. Fill the pit with a quarter volume. Burn it to a quarter volume of volatile-free coals. Add pot and a quarter volume of coal. Burn down to 3/8 volume of volatile-free coals. Keep doing this until the pot is surrounded by only volatile-free coals.
Only speculating. I should try this. A tin-can kiln for micropottery!
And you can firstly try reducing the iron paint it's self first but the iron needs to glow when trying to reduce it
I may be way off here, but would it be an idea to just cover everything with (fine???/wet???) sand when you want to kill the fire and reduce your paint?
I wonder if you crush the charcoal into smaller 1-2 inch chunks and get those red hot / white .. and keep the pot surrounded with heat.. then cover..
Maybe
You could see the uncombusted coals in your pit as soon as you uncovered it. If combustion had been driven to completion, wouldn’t all the fuel by white ash or at least light grey? Maybe it just didn’t burn long enough to complete the reaction?
No, look at the previous reduction video. The pot came out good but the pit was full of coals. Also the notes I was using indicated that coals would be left over as he talks about saving them for the next fire. Although I would agree that this was not allowed to burn long enough.
@@AncientPottery that’s good to know. My chemistry instincts were just getting the better of me. Have you considered researching how modern potters control this type of firing? Ancient potters would need to rely on experience and tradition to know what to do. We have modern science to guide us. It could help you improve your targets to know what temperature range and atmospheric composition you were aiming for.
Great work and good information . Whey we do bisque firing first and glaze firing ?can we do it at once??
Google single fire pottery. You will find lots of info.
Yes you can do it all at once, most ancient cultures around the world did it this way
That's disappointing, I'm sure you were hopeful after getting access to those notes. Here's hoping you crack the code!
I will keep trying and learning
I think part of the problem is oxygen got thru the porosity of the cement board.
Perhaps several layers of cement board fired with your sand clay mixture pior to topping so the thickness will simulate his sandstone slab and it might solve the porosity issue
Hopefully stone will work better, I am ready to try it
@@AncientPottery we used cement board to protect our upright piano from the wood stove but had to double thick cement board and also put an insulation layer between the cement boards to prevent the heat from traveling to the piano. When I saw your one thickness it reminded me of that project and the cement board porous qualities.
Hi Andy! Thanks for this lovely channel. Would a Solo Fire Pit type fire potentially work for this project? I want to try this with my children. The Solo Fire Pit has a smokeless fire and I wonder if it burns in a different way than a regular fire pit? Maybe it burns (heats) too fast and cools too fast...idk lol
I'm no expert but I would bet those don't get anywhere near hot enough to fire pottery.
You really are making me sad that I don’t have a yard to do try this at, lol. Seriously though, your pottery designs are gorgeous. I’m sorry this experiment did not meet your expectations.
I've seen a Pinterest hack that used a large metal trashcan. Not sure how safe that is though.
A friend's yard perhaps? A vacant lot?
@@Miss_Kisa94 😲 Can’t do that either. I live in an apartment
@@AncientPottery I don’t know if the HOA will allow it at my friends house, but maybe the vacant lot would be possible
@@LolaRabbit oh you live in one of those apartments without parking lots? Those suck 😅
Wow, I'm as clueless as you are. It sure looked like everything was sealed up. Maybe there was a leak in the seal someplace?
Frustrating, I will try again soon.
If you get clay then like put it In a fire does it make it so it doesn’t melt when water touches it?
If you can heat the clay over around 700 C
lump charcoal?
Yes, I used hardwood lump charcoal
isn't cement board porous?
I am wondering how pores the cement board actually is. Maybe put mud over the cement board next time? I'm just throwing out ideas. I hope the next firing you do has the outcome you're looking for.
Not a bad idea, I definitely need to determine how porous the cement board is
If the pit was leaking I guess most of the charcoal would have turned to ashes or it would still be burning when you opened it. But maybe it *should* leak a certain amount? A reducing atmosphere in a blacksmith's forge still includes an air blast. You need oxygen to create carbon monoxide.
I found some very interesting and deep red clay at an iron mine up here in Northern AZ, can I send you some? I'd like to see what your assessment of it is.
No, I cannot accept clay or I would quickly be buried under it all. Let me know how it works out, I'll bet it fires a nice red.
@@AncientPottery I understand. It dries with a metallic luster and has flakes of mica in it. I will be firing some soon but I have to build a kiln first because of fire restrictions.
bummer this didnt work.
Have watched quite a few of your videos over theyears. We live out in central Virginia. Do you know any good resources for natural slips and paints that can be harvested from the wild? it doesnt look like the native americans around here had much for decorative pottery, not like the amazing styles of the southwest. im guess thats from lack of availability and variety of natural colorful slips?
There is a potter I know in Virginia who has been fairly successful at finding different colored clays and slips. I think the reason they didn't make it was more cultural than a lack of material.
Maybe the volume of coals consumes all the oxygen after smothering?
Trotzdem ist es schon
first
Good for you
@@AncientPottery omg tha man himself
You kind of look like if Philip SH and Michael J Fox were cloned together and he became a serial killer that reeeeally loves pottery. How many people you got in them jars man?
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👃
ok