How a gorilla troop reacts when a 9 y/o daughter is in estrus.⎪HAOKOs⎪UENO ZOO⎪ゴリラの行動⎪上野動物園⎪S1E183
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- This video was filmed in the morning of November 2022 at the Ueno Zoological Gardens, Tokyo, Japan. The video starts with Momoko relaxing at her favorite spot. Everyone is also relaxing. Haoko and Toto are taking a nap. Momoko is lying down. It's very rare to see her in that posture. But soon Komomo comes from behind, and Momoko stops lying down. Momoka and Riki start playing in the northern grotto. As Momoka and Riki are intimately playing, Haoko appears. Haoko approaches Momoka and stands behind her. Riki then comes over and touches Haoko's bottom. Momoka seems to be confused by her dad's behavior, but she is not angry. The rest of the family is rather calm.
📌 H A O K O
Alpha male - Silverback
DOB: Aug 21, 1993
POB: Apenheul Primate Park, he Netherlands
Sire: Kibabu
Dam: Mouila
Parent reared
• In Dec1996, Haoko was transferred to Taronga Zoo in Australia together with her family.
• In June 2007, Haoko and Shabani moved to Japan.
📍Pictures of Haoko (14 yrs old) when he just arrived at Ueno Zoo in June, 2007.
www.tokyo-zoo....
🎥 The first day on Apr 6, 2007 when Haoko joined the Ueno females (Toto & Nana) ❤️
www.tokyo-zoo....
🎥 A very interesting video posted by ＠wixwacing
• Gorillas at Taronga.wmv
(Kibabu, Haoko and Shabani together?)
📌 M O M O K O
Alpha female
DOB: June 3, 1983 (?)
POB: Unknown (Spain or Africa?)
Parents: Unknown
• In 1987 she and Monta were transferred to Japan via Spain.
• In March 1990 she and Monta were transferred to Chiba Zoo.
• In July 1997 she was transferred to Ueno Zoo as a part of the BL program.
• In July 2002 she and Momotaro came back to Chiba Zoo when Momotaro was 2 yrs old.
• In Dec 2008 she and Momotaro were transferred to Ueno Zoo as a part of the BL program.
She has 5 offspring: Momotaro*, Komomo, Momoka, Riki and Sumomo
*Momotaro's father is Biju. He passed away in 1999 from suffocation.
🎥 Momoko with Momotaro at Ueno Zoo in 2001
www.tokyo-zoo....
🎥 Momoko first time meeting Haoko at Ueno Zoo in 2008❤️
www.tokyo-zoo....
📌 K O M O M O
Female - adult
DOB: Nov 14, 2009
POB: Ueno Zoo, Japan
Sire: Haoko
Dam: Momoko
Parent reared
🎥 Momoko gave birth to Komomo🎊
www.tokyo-zoo....
📌 M O M O K A
Female - young adult
DOB: Apr 24, 2013
POB: Ueno Zoo, Japan
Sire: Haoko
Dam: Momoko
Parent reared
🎥 Momoko gave birth to Momoka🎊
www.tokyo-zoo....
📌 R I K I
Male - juvenile
DOB: Oct 9, 2017
POB: Ueno Zoo, Japan
Sire: Haoko
Dam: Momoko
Parent reared
🎥 Momoko gave birth to Riki at the outside enclosure.🎊
www.tokyo-zoo....
📌 S U M O M O
Female - infant
DOB: May 31, 2022
POB: Ueno Zoo, Japan
Sire: Haoko
Dam Momoko
Hand-reared
🎥 Video of Sumomo and Momoko reunion 😭❤️
• ニシゴリラ「スモモ」と「モモコ」のようす：上...
📍 The picture of the newborn baby Sumomo and Momoko🎉❤️
www.tokyo-zoo....
📌 T O T O
Female - adult
DOB: est. 1978
POB: Cameroon
Wild-born
•1979 Toto was transferred to Nihondaira Zoo.
•1999 She moved to Ueno Zoo.
Toto is one of Haoko's mates. She has no offspring. She is likely to be infertile.
🎥 Baby Toto just arrived at Nihondaira Zoo in 1979🍼
• ゴリラのトトちゃんがやってきた【SBSアーカイブ】
🎥 Toto and Rola eating ice at Ueno Zoo in 2003❤️
www.tokyo-zoo....
🦍Gorillas owned by Ueno Zoo: Haoko, Riki, Sumomo, Rola
🦍Gorillas owned by Chiba Zoo: Monta, Momoko, Momotaro, Gentaro, Momoka
NB: Komomo belongs to Taronga Zoo and Toto belongs to Nihondaira Zoo.
🪘MUSIC
share.epidemic...
1️⃣ Syncopations - Rune Dale 2️⃣ That Laugh - Rupert Sachs 3️⃣ Jungle Ambience 14 - SFX Producer
Audio Library:
4️⃣ At The Shores - The Dark Contenent
#Karinとゴリラ #karintogorillas #westernlowlandgorilla
Thank you all for your comments. They are all very interesting. Please excuse me for replying to you here in a separate comment. I'm sure Komomo and Momoka are on birth control. I know Haoko had tried to mate with Komomo before. I have watched a video clip of a similar act by Haoko before on the net, but I couldn't find the link anymore. I don't know if he did actually mate with Komomo. In this episode, I don't think Haoko did actually mate with Momoka, but I can't say for sure. There are still many things that humans don't know about gorilla behaviors. We can't judge if this act is wrong or right. I have read some articles regarding gorillas avoiding inbreeding. But that does not mean they don't try to mate with their offspring. If experts and researchers on gorilla behaviors think such behavior made by Haoko is not acceptable, I hope they will contact the zoo to address the issue. It's time for Komomo and Momoka to have their own mates. I hope the Japan gorilla breeding committee will move into action quickly to solve the pending issues. Once again, thank you all for your time to share your thoughts and knowledge.
Why does the smaller one keep grabbing at the silverbacks scrotum
Very well said Karin . Iam sure your vewiers are getting the real nitty gritty of Gorrila life like iam . Alot of this inbreeding can be eliminated . It starts with the officials and organizations that's In charge. . I am sure ,, if they had a right stragergy in the first place or even have the proper knowledge of Gorrilas and what they are made of . Half of the issue they are facing now would have had a back up plan . The world and taxpayers don't really care about how sensitive or proud you might be . I say even more so you should be more sensitive to these issue at hand . Silly pride comes before a fall if your not wise !! Pride is a good thing but in pospective if it's hurting or endangering people , place or things . It becomes a sin . The Zoos are an example of this in Japan . . Thanks Karin and like I said before you got my vote 👍 maybe that's what's needed also is petition with as many people U tube can do that to help these gorillas and bring it to the attention in Newspapers and organizations involved . A wake up call ! A cry for help on behalf of the urgent needs of Gorrilas in Japan . It's also for the good of Japan citizens , and tourist alike . It would be such a good investment in their country . Gorrilas forever !!!
Shabani was really interested in Annie also. I wonder if Annie is getting ready to start.
Thank-you for your response your information is very professional to the situation and Thank-you for that. I believe your very professional with this and doing a great job for this situation.
Very intelligent commentary and I’m so curious about this kind of situation in zoos. Of course you’re correct for saying the behavior is NORMAL and it’s our own weird morality that judges. This is not the animals fault. It’s a function of not living as they should as well as a dwindling population. I’m curious why the zoo didn’t swap some of the gorillas into other zoos with mating programs? When there ARE CHOICES other than relatives, in the wild, these animals as with all will have the instincts to leave the family group. Depending on the breed of primate it’s either the males and at times, the females. This is part of why certain archaic human populations like neanderthal became extinct. Lack of genetic diversity. It’s been a problem that faced the Egyptian royals leaving tut with many genetic problems and 2 dead fetuses laying beside him that he and his sister bore.
I feel so sorry for Komomo and Momoka! They should get the chance to follow the call of nature! They both would be amazing moms! Please dear zoo do something to help them!🙏 Wish love and happiness to both girls!🥰
They should be put in with monta
Come ci può disturbare ,ciò che è naturale❤
Thank you for not being afraid to address difficult topics and for your work! 💜
Thank you, strangerlovesgorillas, for your support!🙏
In wild the girls (Komomo and Momoka) would have moved away and joined a new troop or found a silverback to start their own family, but here they are helpless. Here they are the responsibility and ward of the zoo, so I hope the zoo takes necessary steps for their future and happiness.
Japanese breeding programs are inconsistent.
Gentaro should have been moved when he hit puberty.
The girls should have been moved so this wouldn't happen, they also have 2 gorillas living on their own.
You would think the zoo would take care of their charges. 🤔
Yes, I think they could try with Monta, I think he is the only one avaliable right now in Japan because Kiyo is their cousin (assuming Gentaro is paired with Annie). But if they can reach other zoos, in the USA they have Frank and Monroe and they're the perfect age. Haoko troop is too big and with the new baby they have enough apes to attract visitors.
@@sonjavandam1306I share your frustration with the way Japanese Zoos officials disrespect and put no efforts into taking care of these wonderful Gorrilas girl everytime is see how taxpayers money is being mishandle when it comes to treatments and procrastinating of these endangered species I get soo irritated ,, sometimes it bring tears to my eyes . I call it incompetence and procrastination to the highest form . It uncalled for and viewers are watching from all over the world and are saying the same thing . Now I have to calm myself down because I get upset when it comes to these wonderful creatures that is soo very dear to my heart . Peace ✨❤️✨
@@joseanibalsantacruzamanzo2202 yesss and don't forget Theval so funny ROLO . They need to stop sitting on their asses 🤭🤭🙄☹️ and reach out to other resources . They have stubborn ways and it's effecting these creatures that did not ask for all this ✨❤️✨
I think my comments on the same issues was deleted.
Maybe they don't like people saying thing's about there zoo's. TOUGH I know Japanese people are quite sensitive & proud people, but what the frikking hell are they doing NOW..🤔😢
It hurts my heart to watch & know there is nothing I can do about it..🤭 I feel all the same frustrations as you..
In the wild females Momoka's age have usually left their family troop and have joined another troop/new silverback to start their own families. Gorillas seem to be very aware about mating between offspring and parents. Blackbacks usually also leave to join bachelor groups, or if their father allows it, they stay to help strenghten the troop and act as the alpha silverback's 2nd in command. I'm surprised here only because zoos usually put their females on contraceptives if not part of a breeding pair. Not sure though if contraceptives are started before or after the first estrus. Some European zoos have even started to chemically castrate their young males before puberty. If Momoka has entered estrus, it may have happened before starting her on birth control, surprising the keepers and vets.
I'm most surprised that Momoko or Toto didn't intervene. Momoko has always been very aggressive about keeping her alpha status. Remember what she did to Genki when she was brought in as a 2nd female for Bijou. I know Momoko had been ill, but ill or not, I believe if something was "off" she still would have moved heaven and earth to solidify her alpha position. As for Toto and other older females, they are still high on the list of their silverbacks. Haoko still spends time with Toto and there are videos that show them sneaking off together. Same with Shabani and Nene, Biddy and Oumbi, etc.
Maybe Haoko took a mating position (don't think mating occurred tho) because as a gorilla male he was aroused by the aroma of "estrus". Also, Momoka herself did some presenting toward Riki and Haoko starting at 3:09. The female usually initiates mating with positioning and the stare down with pursed lips. Haoko's positioning didn't look like a dominance position which looks similar to the mating position. Again what is confusing is that Momoko didn't react. She usually doesn't miss anything. Riki was looking on because his job is to learn all things gorilla and become a great silverback.
In the end, the bottom line is place Momoka on birth control and/or start looking in the stud book (GAIN system) to find her a suitable unrelated mate who unfortunately may be a male out of the Japanese zoo system which is very protective of their gorillas.
Just my thoughts in trying to understand.
Hi yvonne , good to hear from you always very informative . I was actually thinking the same thing about Momoko . I think she is loosing her self-esteem. Or the lack of estrogen 😃 I think coming back into the troop without her baby did something to her . Also finding out Toto and Heako she is getting older and maybe lost interest . . Toto nor Momoko defended her . She is only 9yrs old . Let's see how this is goi g to play out . It not goi g to be good . Just saying . Thanks Yvonne ✨❤️✨
Yes,yes, yes yes to all the above mentioned.💯
Thanks for all of this good information. I've always been in awe of gorillas, but I'm relatively new to following family groups. I really appreciate all of the background information people provide. Thanks again!
@@reneecrews2926 Happy gorilla watching and welcome to the Gorrila family life . Hopi g it would amuse and intertain you . These Mystic and endangered species reminds me of how soo very much at times they are like us humans and should be treated with respect . Some humans think also that they are caneverious but they are vegetarian . Just pretty strong vegetarians . That have 98.6 percent human instincts . If you don't mind me saying so their genitals referring to the males as big and strong as they are their ( penis) is 5cm . Allot of people get these fine creatures misconstrued ,,lol . I enjoyed 😃 👍 your comment , it reminded me of when I first started watching these wonderful creatures . It so much to learn about them and the habitats that they live in . Their nature is pretty amazing . It been going on 12 years now and iam still watching when I can . Enjoy !! ✨❤️✨
Gentaro is in Japan & is the same age, he would be a great mate. They both need new surroundings
人間と同じようには考えてはいけないなと思います。。忠告はとてもわかりやすいです。彼らはどのように生まれたかはわからないので、マウンティングすることはあるかもしれませんね…
私もえすぴん5 さんと同じ考えです。
ご視聴・コメントありがとうございました⭐️
All I can say Karin is what, what what !! Heako need to find someone his size !! Momoko.
Thank goodness they have SMALL wee wee's .The poor girl would be totally traumatized more if it was larger.so sad.😢
To all the viewers saying it’s not unnatural for a father gorilla to mate with his offspring they’re wrong. That’s not a “human” concept. Inbreeding is not natural behavior in most mammals. Most animals go out of their way to create environments where it doesn’t happen. Zoo’s create unnatural conditions. Scientists says extinction can come from animals developing “maladaptive” behaviors. They don’t say right or wrong, good or evil. Zoos create conditions that can lead to unhealthy, maladaptive and eventually the inability to survive.
Absolutely. The last time I went to a zoo was when I was 14. I just won’t go anymore and I’m 50 now. I do understand certain individual animals who for one reason or another would not survive in the wild under particular circumstances but I still have a bad taste in my mouth with the thought of standing there watching animals behind cages.
gorillas in the wild won't mate with their offspring like you said in a controlled environment like a zoo this can happen but its still not normal. they are supposed to move them around to prevent such a thing too happen. another thing is too have multiple females living with a male Silverback making it easier for the things like inbreeding not happening.lack of females can cause such a thing.
What is your expertise? Your training.
You are right the zoos keep them all locked up around each other normally they would not act that way they just adapt to the environment they are in. They need to be set free if you want to no the truth about it that is the humans fought for what happens shame on them.
Right.
They're one family in a cage. No other gorilla troops to mix with. 🤷🏽♀️
Woaww, almost one million views as of today 26th November 2022 8:57pm UK Time
I would think they have or will put her in birth control because they seem to be pretty responsible at this zoo.
🎉
Toto is so pretty, she reminds me of Genki
I love genki
Genki is not pretty at all. Ai from Shabani’s troop is really gorgeous!
I think Genki has a pretty face but she looks very disheveled in general. Ai looks the most human like of all the gorillas I've ever seen, which is why I guess she is the most attractive lol. Plus she has a beautiful dark rich coat.
Okay, so what I've read from experts about these types of things. Usually, the females find another group. But people don't realize that sometimes the daughters stay in the group. What I read on that is that normally the daughters are able to evade their gorilla fathers when they try to mate. These types of things do happen in the wild, but the daughters are able to evade their fathers. I do think if this is happening that the zoo should consider moving her out.
I say just move these single female out to have their own life then start the matching if mates right after . , different family s in different parts of the zoo habitats . After each family has had one to three babies put the mother on birth control . But they have to do a lot of construction to place each family or troop . Then the matching if mates . If they don't get to the drawing board asap is going to be a disgrace . Some of these gorillas don't have that much time . They only live to be 67 -69 . It is already being detrimental to the zoo s in Japan . It's not like they can't expand their zoos !! They are getting all kinds of funds . It's a world issue .
I agree with your comment. There are a few young blackbacks that Momoka could be paired with in Japan alone. I just can't see many zoos allowing this type of thing to happen, but I am also not an expert or anything. It is uneasy to watch this for many of us. It isn't the viewer merely putting human feelings on to an animal dynamic. (This is what someone else said when a commenter made a comment) It is uncomfortable to watch because it isn't really natural for the gorilla from what I also read.
Monta is a lonely silverback. They should be put in with him
Greetings.. why not put Komomo with Frank from Dan Diego zoo.. Great power couple n they both so good looking. I love these animals and want them to have good life.
That would be wonderful. Both are internet celebrities. Thank you David for watching.
Excelente video amigo
People! Its humans that has put them in that position. In the wild certain animals would move away from the troop and that would be instincts telling them that.
What are they ment to do in that tiny enclosure when instincts come knocking?!
His daughter and sons should be in a different place
I also think you are right about that one ✨👀😇
I like how the big one kicked the little one away ! Lol
Wow. Look at the views. Well done Karin 👏
É um grande mistério que eu nunca vi desse jeito não.
This is probably wrong from the outset. Perhaps pressure from the outside will force this zoo to do the right thing.
What is the Zoo gonna do about this?? Haoko has 2 daughters in his troop that are old enough to mate & birth. The gorilla troop is not able to stop this huge Silverback from trying to mate with any of the gorillas! It’s just NOT possible.
My best opinion would to give both daughters birth control just in case, rather be safe than sorry! Also, could transfer the 2 daughters out to match up with other Silverbacks
Thank you KAROON BOOMIE for your comment. The two daughters are on birth control. I hope the zoo will find a place for the girls to meet their future silverback soon.
They need to send the two girls somewhere else to build a new family
@John Wright I totally agree with you . I have said that a long time ago about Annie and Gentoro . Its time to make it happen . Don't know what's taking them so long but it seems to me that Japanese Zoos procrastinate alot . Never on time with these gorillas and their wellbeing .. ✨❤️✨
Cosa fa Haoko! Momoka e ancora giovane , è possibile che sia in estro! Devono usare il controllo delle nascite come sicuramente fanno con komomo. E la la natura quando vanno in esro non si conoscono come padre e figlia, ma e listinto
Lol. The little guy was giving him a reach around
Toto is like what did you just do ❤❤
While I wasn't concerned about what I would see, I am concerned about this in general. I thought inbreeding was extremely harmful to the species? And I really find it disturbing that the zoo hasn't already found somewhere to move Komomo and Momoka. So that this very thing doesn't happen. Animals are going to do what is instinctive to them. PERIOD. Particularly since they're in captivity. Im very worried 😟
Oh Brother 🤨
Thank you
Why is the zoo letting dad and daughter to mate , I don't understand that ,and how is the baby doing , is there videos of the baby ?
Hi Lynn. Sumomo is doing fine. The new video is now updated. FYI.
OMG😮，Big boss you can’t do that 😔
The zoos will eventually either move the females or a male or two so there isn’t any inbreeding..if u watch videos of zoos they explain that process and in this video he was probably asserting his dominance over Riki letting him know he’s the only one that can mate
モモカ、混乱してる感じですね。離れていくところを見ると嫌がってもいるようで、でもそう遠くに行くわけではないし…発情した娘は自然界では家族から離れていく時期なんでしょうね
台北のイリキとタヤリ姉妹も9歳で群を離れてお嫁にきているので、モモカもそうゆう時期なのかな？
以前、シャバーニがアニーの身体検査のような、胸を触ってアニーが嫌がるという映像を見たことがあります。適齢期が近い女子がいる家族は、見守っていてハラハラしますね💦
まさに、「なんだなんだ、父ちゃん？🙄」「でも父ちゃんのお尻どうなってるか気になる🧐」という状況でしたね。コモモとモモカはパートナーがいておかしくない時期ですよね。シルバーバックが息子にマウンティングとるのと、娘にとるのとじゃあ周りのざわつき度が違いますね💦日本ゴリラ繁殖委員会（？）が早く決着つけて動き出してほしいです。まるがりーたさん、コメントありがとうございました⭐️
Yes, I believe it's a lesson for both the young female n male. The father seemed like he was mimicking the mating act, perhaps so she'll know..js...
Karin, wouldn't Momoka be on birth control to prevent a pregnancy If any interfamily mating did occur?I don't think he actually mated with her.i think it was sex education for everyone.Poor Toto looked befuddled!!!!Thx for the warning but I have learned that gorillas are NOT human & I need to remember that in their behaviors.thx Karin!🧡🦍🤎😉✨️
Great video! My friend told me there is a book about baby Cenzoo! I want to get it!
Thank you MySkinnyDip. I didn't know about Cenzoo.
I couldn't read the question of whether this behavior is normal in the gorilla family. Karen the answer was not readable because it went too quickly, ao I didn't know what to expect from the answer.
Is it possible to have a better way to get your answer to the question
another way? If so, please post a link. Thank you Karin😋♥🐒♥
Hi Mary. Sorry about the captions were hard to read. You feedback is appreciated.
The following is my captions I put starting at 7:10. There is no answer to my question.😉
"Haoko might have instinctively reacted to his daughter in heat, while his daughter had no clue what that was, but she was curious."
"Such behavior by a father is forbidden in human society. Is it some kind of learning process for young gorillas for their future reproduction?"
"*Please note the video will become shakier, but I didn't want to miss any parts."
It’s a shame they can’t match up the bachelors with the females so this doesn’t happen ! 😮😢
So many bachelors out there waiting for these beautiful girls!😢
This is the most irresponsible zoo I’ve ever seen!! This DOES NOT represent what happens in the wild,when the daughter reaches sexual maturity she leaves troop
I don't have many subscriptions, but that's one of the reasons I subscribed to you! I think it's great that you have the courtesy to show this without judging Haoko! I want to see what really happens in the lives of gorillas, not edited footage. Gorillas are intelligent and share DNA with us, but they are still animals. It's not Haoko's fault. Silverbacks try to mate with all sexually mature females in their troop. Inbreeding is not that uncommon. It's not the same as with humans. They don't have our moral standards. The zoo would have to relocate the daughters. Thank you for your work!!
Thank you, strangerlovesgorillas, for subscribing to my channel.🙏 I totally agree with your perspective. I also want to know what really happens in the lives of gorillas. At the same time, I understand some videographers who choose not to show some sensitive footage. It's a bit of a stressful experience to deal with the overreaction of viewers and with demonetization by YT.
@@karintogorillas I can understand it too. I probably wouldn't have the nerve either. It must be very stressful for you to deal with the comments and demonetization by YT! I'm sometimes even stressed as a viewer when I read through the comments! That's why I appreciate your work even more and I'm grateful to you for showing it. You are doing a great job and deserve support! ❤
Why they don’t send her to Frank. I think he’s still alone
Why the Zoo is not exchanging unrelated femals?
It really does take a long time and a lot of work to have females or males transferred. There is the breeding recommendations from around the world , the fact that they usually don’t start prepping for it till a certain age , the financial portion of it , the potential effect on the family or gorilla being moved , etc … I think most people just think “ oh she’s good to leave now , let’s just pick a random zoo” from what I’ve seen from a few documentaries it can be a 2 year process.
なんか心にグサっとくるものがあります。
私がモモカの立場なら耐えられないです。
ハオコもモモカも大好きです。
どちらの幸せも願いたいです。
Maybe they can send them to D'Jeeco family at Taipei zoo. DJ can have 4 wives.
It's pretty sad to say the least because as someone commented these poor gorillas are in the hands of the keepers so their helpless to do anything... hopefully the keepers will take responsibility and move both females out already ...
This also happens with the Momotaro family, where I have seen Genki mating with son gentaro and even father Momotaro trying to mate with son Gentaro. This seems to be a result of the unnatural situations of captivity where sons and daughters can’t move out to new groups and have no potential unrelated mates in the group. The chemicals given off cause instinctive and probably confusing behaviours.
That's true I seen the momtoro silverback mating with the baby kintoro
Don't think I've ever seen a video of Gentaro trying to mate with Genki. As for Momotaro and his sons, what looks like a mating position is actually a dominance position, especially with Gentaro. Gentaro is now a blackback, all muscle but still immature. The silverbacks need to remind the young males who is king. Shabani in Higashyama Zoo is having the same problem with his blackback son Kiyomasa.
FYI I did some research on troop interbreeding. Studies done on wild gorillas have shown that as much 12 to 16% of babies are from interbreeding. So intra breeding may not be so rare. I'll keep doing the research because there is still so much to learn about great apes and I find it fascinating.
I would be careful about reading too much into this, he saw Riki who appeared to be trying to mount his sister and it piqued his interest.
When it's time for the daughter to start breeding that is when the zoo keepers should step in and send them to a section of the zoo were there is another family of gorillas are so they can mate. Just like lions father run the sons out of the family so that doesn't happen, because they will try to mate with their sisters or mother. We dont know how they do in the wild. So the zoo keepers need to be ready for this type of behavior.
Oh my! That is so not right. I hope they move both girls soon. I know they’re thinking Komomo could possibly take care of the little sister but then what happens…will komomo be there forever with the family.? There’s a couple of young males who are almost ready to start their own families and I don’t think they’re related…oh I think Kiyomasa is related because of Shabani and Haoko. Am I right? This is a dilemma. I hope things are worked out for the best. I’d hate to see the gorillas end up with deformities, retardation, etc because of in breeding.😮😢
研究者ではないですが、これは研究者の方じゃなくてもわかるくらい当然の行為です。
京都動物園のオスのゲンタロウに対して疑似交尾をモモタロウは行いますからスキンシップ、上下関係の確認のための行為でもあります。
ただ、相手が子供のメスだとしても彼等には関係ない話で親子で交配する可能性は高いですし、近親での行為を嫌悪するのは人間だけですから、当たり前の行動です。
科学が進歩し遺伝的に問題があるので道徳的に問題にしてるだけの話で、彼等にとってはこのような行為を嫌悪する事はありません。
ただ、種を存続させるために危険な行為は本能的に排除するようになっているので本来なら自然界のゴリラはオスもメスも群れから出るのが基本ですが、群に残ったメスは親近交配を普通にしますし、そのような例は特別ではないです。
なので、動物園の様な密閉された環境では当然近親での交配は起こる事ですから、今までこのようなケースで懐妊したのかは不明ですが、どちらにしても動物園側は本格的にゴリラの動物園間での移動を考えないといけないでしょうね。
大変勉強になります。ゴリラは人間の遺伝子とはちがい何千年もの間小さなグループ間で生き延びてきていて親近交配に強い、というような記事を読んだことがあります。だからといってこの小さな家族をそのままにほったらかしておいたらやはり自然の摂理、起こることは起こりますので、もう動物園側は認識をしていると思いますが早く行動に移してほしいですよね。U U さん、冷静で思慮深いコメントありがとうございました。
@@karintogorillas
丁寧なご返信ありがとうございます。
今後は確実に国内繁殖でしか日本がゴリラを保有するしかないのですが既に若いゴリラ達は近親になってきてますが京都は台湾の動物園と連携してるようなので、このあたりがサンフランシスコ条約上、どうなるのかに興味があります。
現実的には京都のゲンタロウも10歳近くなりゲンタロウにアニー、そしモモカにキヨマサが良いと思うのですがモモタロウとゲンタロウの保有権は千葉動物園なのでその辺の都合もあって難しいのかもしれませんね。
なんにせよ現状ではどうやっても近親にしかならない未来しかないので繁殖はかなり深刻で暗い問題です。
動物園も頑張ってらっしゃるのは重々わかりますが、なんとか彼等が幸せになる道筋を模索していただきたいと願うばかりです。
Ｋarin様
配信ありがとうございます。今回の動画、沢山のコメントを拝見勉強になりました。近親相関が起こると最後には絶滅の危機に繋がる事、それを避ける為に避妊薬を使用してること、また、仲間内でも暗黙のルールが存在。Momokaちゃんも正常な発達をしているわけで適切な環境が整うことが急がれる外国からの譲渡等は難しいのでしょうね？このままだと日本でゴリラさん達を観ることが出来なくなりますね。
松浦里枝さん、こんばんは。
繁殖委員会のこのスローペースだと完全に日本から繁殖可能なゴリラはいなくなるので、海外頼みになると思いますが、海外との信頼関係構築もどのくらい進んでいるのか憂慮します。京都市動物園はネットワーク作りに努力していることがうかがえます。日本の動物園は飼育方法にばらつきがあり、どの園で飼育されるかでゴリラの幸せが左右されるのは、海外からみても印象が良くないですよね。どの動物園でもゴリラが幸せに暮らせるようになってほしいです。ご視聴、そしてコメントありがとうございました⭐️
ハオコとモモカを早く離した方がいいと思います。
東山動物園のキヨマサと一緒にしてあげてはいけないのですか？
いとこは人間でもオッケーですよ。
モモカは体形も母親モモコに似ていて日本のゴリラ絶滅を救ってくれると思います。
何と言っても、群れに子供が出来ると幸せなムードに包まれますよね。
モモコも元気も幸せそうに見えます。モモカを、このまま一人隔離しないでくださいね。
従兄弟同士は、ゴリラの自然界でも普通にあるみたいですね。だからキヨマサとはありですね。でもモンタもいるんです😭
モモカは体型が母親に似てますよね。
津山涼さん、ご視聴・コメントありがとうございました⭐️
@@karintogorillas さん、お返事ありがとうございます。
モンタさん、あまりにも年上過ぎてモモカが可哀想に思いませんか？だって、パパより年上ですよ。
でも、20人しかいない中でペアを組むのですから、そうも言ってられませんね。😓
ハオコもシャバーニもモモタロウも、みんな、かなり年上女房ですものね。😓
モンタとコモモがほんとはいいですが、タロンガ動物園との契約条件などの問題でコモモが上野から離れられるかが難しい点で、モモカしかいまのところいないですよね。モモカの所有が千葉なので可能性が一番高いですね。二人は年がはなれすぎていてちょっとうまくいくか不安は残りますが、モンタはおとなしい性格なので共同生活はできると思います。繁殖はわからないですが、でも今モモカが群れの中で経験してきたことが活かせるかもしれません。こちらこそお返事ありがとうございました⭐️
Как они похожи на дарвина!))
They’re all very quiet
娘の発情が始まり戸惑う娘に、これからのオスとメスの交わりを形として教えているように見えました。
そしてハオコはちゃんと父親として雄の行動を触れ合いから学ばせようとしたと思います。
モモコやトトとは違う扱い方だった｡けれど そろそろモモカは巣立ちさせてあげる時が来ています｡
ハオコの行動によってモモカが繁殖について学んでいる機会を得ている可能性は高いですよね。コモモは今はハオコから適度な距離をとっていますが、発情し始めた頃は同じようにいろいろあったのかなと思います。コモモとモモカのこれからをどう園が話を進めているか気になります。Dars chocoさん、ご視聴・コメントありがとうございました⭐️
@@karintogorillas 京都のモモタロウは思春期のゲンタロウに同じような格好（似た行為）をしたことがこの春ありました。このように、私的にはDars chocoさんがおっしゃるように『親が子供に性教育』をしているように思えました🤗
@@karintogorillas 京都市動物園の新ゴリラ日記での今年3月の記事がこれについて（その行為の前後について）多少触れられています。
Rieさん、さっそくゴリラ日記2022年3月の記事読みました！以前、読んでいたのですが、今回の一件のあとでまた読むと理解がふかまります。モモタロウがゲンタロウの匂いに反応して体を震わせていた、というのはほんとに興味深いです。モモカが発していた匂いにハオコが反応したことは間違いないですね。Rieさん、タイムリーにこの日記のことを教えてくださり、ありがとうございました⭐️
@@karintogorillas それ息子や！交尾する相手を間違えて発情するモモタロウ？というタイトルで動画が上がっています
The daughter is supposed to leave the group
That's true. Thanks for watching.
@@karintogorillascoloque ela com algum silverback urgente
It’s not uncommon. He’s an animal that’s what they do.
Has he ever tried with komo since she the oldest
Has Hoako done this again since this incident
京都市動物園のモモタロウが、イタズラ者の次男のキンタロウの上に乗っかりました😂
父親としての教育的指導のためのマウンティングだったのかもしれません。
まだ5才のキンタロウは驚いて、お父さんの股の間から逃げ出しました。
そしてキンタロウはしばらく呆然としていましたが、我に返ると素早く父親の大きいおしりを一発叩いて走り去りました。
そしてモモタロウはその腹いせに、妻のゲンキの前でいきなり走っては急に止まるという、面白いパフォーマンスを見せて驚かせていました。
その後キンタロウは、優しい兄のゲンタロウ(12才)を誘って、その兄の身体を低くさせて背中に乗って腰を振っていました😂
優しい兄ゴリラのゲンタロウは大きい身体なのにどこか母親のゲンキに似ていて、5才のキンタロウの方が男らしく見えました。
野生のゴリラはオス同士で、そういうコミュニケーションを取るそうですが、通常は身体が大きいオスが小さいオスに乗るそうです。
私の気のせいかもしれません。
モモカやコモモが、東山動植物園のキヨマサとマッチングすればいいんですが❤
ドアラハンターさま、コメント楽しく読ませていただきました。貴重な観察の記録を共有くださりありがとうございました⭐️キンタロウはどんなシルバーバックになるのか楽しみですね。ゴリラは幼少期から繁殖意欲を持ち合わせていて、そういう疑似行動をして遊ぶと山極先生の講演の記録か何かで読んだことがあります。またオトナが自分の子供にそのような行動をする場合は、コドモがメスの場合は実際に繁殖行為をしているかは見えないのでわかりませんが（リキは手で確認されているので知っているかもしれません😆）、ボスが自分だということを教えている行動かもしれません。モモカやコモモとキヨマサは父親同士が兄弟なのでマッチングはないです。日本のワカモノゴリラたちの行く末が気がかりです🙏
レッドリスト以前から
世界中で動物の輸出入をしていますが
狭い環境で気候も合わず私達人間が楽しむ為に動物たちには苦労かけてます。
動物園は国内固有種だけにしてもいいのではないか？
そろそろ考えさせられる動画でした。
I find it cruel to keep these animals in zoos so just people can make money out of them.They can be watched in their natural habitat.
Yes, or not at all. Animals do not exist for our viewing pleasure.
For everyone complaining about animals in zoos..remember for most in captivity there is nowhere to release them. Instead of complaining about animals IN captivity spend your energy fixing the poaching and habitat loss in the native areas this animal would and should be.
I Totally Agree.
Why is the son fondling the father?
I'm not sure. I also would like to know. Maybe he is observing. Thank you for watching.
Riki is trying to stop him
This is the fault of the zoo...NOT the gorillas
They do this in the wild too … even in large family groups where the silverback has several females to choose from.
I so agree! So it their job & responsibility to fix it too!
@@captaincoffeecake3595 That's right!
What is Riki doin and wonder why the other females step in??
こんにちはkarinさん。
びっくりしました、こんな事が起きていたのですね！
順番的にコモモが先に群れから離れると思っていましたが
この現状を見るとモモカを先に移動させた方が良い気がしてきましたね。
そろそろ年頃のゴリラ達も増えて来たし、
動物園側でそういった話し合いが行われていればよいのですが・・。
ヒロさん、こんにちは⭐️
コモモはたぶん同じような経験をすでにして、父親回避術を学んでいるのではないかと見ています。モモカはまだハオコの行動がいまいちわかっていない感じです。ゴリラ繁殖委員会（？）は話し合いを重ねていなければ、ほんとに日本からゴリラいなくなりますよね。そろそろそういう話を期待したいです。ご視聴・コメントありがとうございました😊
Thanks for your sharing! 🔔🔔🔔🥰🥰🥰
What kind of zoo keeps a female of age with the father? I've heard Japanese zoos are careless and irresonsible. I'd hoped they'd have improved but not. Lousy zoo
My question is what exactly is the son doing to his dad?
That is what I also would like to know.😁 He is learning gorilla things for sure. Thanks for watching.
learning. Curiosity.
Is it wrong for the father animal to be mating with his daughter
They are animals
SOLO LO HACEN LOS ANIMALES..
you do know they arent human right. i am betting your cat or dog is the product of interbreeding someone in its lineage! but you love your animal just the same...
Please dont do that. They should be seperated please😮
Are there enough zoo's or sanctuary's around the world for all these off spring to go to when they grow up? If not then they better stop the breeding programs and start expanding their zoo's now.. This is not fair to these creatures.. I can't even call them animals because their not.. We are.
excellent comment
Ofcourse they are animals and so are we.
Thanks 104.9
It's too bad we still have zoos. I was glad when Barnum Bailey got shut down. All those animals in such restricted spaces. It's not fair. Same with Sea World with the Orcas and dolphins.
Not to make light of the issue but am i the only one that thought of the aristocrats joke when seeing this?
Don't they know that it 's thier child and it's supposed to be off limits??
It doesn't surprise me at all. Didn't this happen with Komomo when she first was in estrus? I would assume both girls are on birth control. Komomo and Momoka need mates, and hopefully after this they will be moved and paired. Haoko, due to being a captive gorilla in an enclosure, obviously in an environment he cannot control did exactly that...act instinctively. Therefore gently speaking, yes we as humans should not place any negative views on Momoka and Haoko's actions. If anything the zoo should have been more diligent to prevent this from happening. As a result of the sister girls being with their families so long, sometimes these things happen with primates. Oh goodness poor Momoka is a bit confused. Meanwhile Toto and Momoko are like, "Uh oh it's that time." Komomo is like, "Huh?" Riki checks dad's butt glands in confusion as well. Thanks Karin for sharing this video. Some may have found it offensive. I absolutely did not. I would however show the zoo this video, and hopefully they will expeditiously make plans to find Komomo and Momoka mates. It will be an adjustment for the lovely 💝 girls to leave, but they'll be fine. It also may be best for Sumomo once she joins the troop. It would be kinda crowded in the enclosure for the cute small baby 🌸 girl with everyone in there.
Thank you Sonya for your time to share your thoughts. I felt the same as you did indeed. 🦍🙏🫶
Wonder why she attacked her sister
After a detailed comment I left, it's been deleted. WHY.
I thought this was a safe place to talk about thing's that are taboo.🤔
Sonja, I think CZcams automatically delete some comments without my knowledge. Sorry if your comments have been deleted.
Hey Sonja! Just for your FYI some viewers may not agree with your comments and report it and have it deleted. I went thru this on another site.
@@MySkinnydip Cheers mate, it was mainly about the failures of the Japanese breeding program. What ever.✌️ You watch the same troop's I do, they have dropped the ball with Gentaro now Haoko & don't forget the 2 gorillas that live on their own. I could go on but I think you know what I'm talking about..Thanks for the heads up.🌟
@@sonjavandam1306 Agreed!
@@sonjavandam1306 I think Skinnydip might have a point . Some people that don't have a voice are the only ones that play with that report bottom . This is not that kind of show to be offensive about except the way Japan Zoos treat their Gorrilas and that's just Gorrilas 🙄🤔🤔 whew !! Anyway Sonja they got it loud and clear . If they read it then deleted it . T 5hey got it .!! You must have said something that struck a nerve . Ditto . I hope by chance it was read by one of those procrastinating Zoo officials on the board of getting things done . All we need to see is some Drastic Measures being taken towards these Gorrilas wellbeing . . They have deleted a couple if my comments in the past also . Does that stop me !? NEVER !! ✨❤️✨
🦍盧推は？！たくましい！
hope 2 girl have mate 😭😭🤔🤔🤔. karin can you help momoka & komomo have another silverback mate, you can speaking to zoo?
please they are animals
We need laws. Incest is a sin! Pound them with your Bibles.
It might look cruel to some but it's more cruel for them to be hunted down and chopped up for their body parts
Karin my question is…. This is a normal behavior from a Silverback to a daughter. I know they are animals but I don’t know.😮😮 thank you share this scene.
I remember seeing a vid where the mother was mating with her son
I think zoo should separate girls too also,like they are doing for male's
I was waiting for her to smack them cuz the so similar humans😁
動物園應該要讓它們分開住了吧 一個小空間住這麼多金剛 很容易發生亂倫悲劇
ホントに発情してるの？
京都では父と息子がこれと同じ行為をやってたけど・・・。
I remember this. Momotaro tried to mate with Gentaro
@@mmaphilosophy Gentaro or Kintaro?
both. I'm no expert. It may have been a parental teaching technique. It may be an aberation of environment. Takes an expert to judge it, not us.@@cyrusjulian187
教育ですね
Shabani and Hiromasa (father and son) also “play” like this (just hands not mating) but Shabani is very gentle and it seems like part of play. Shabani is so sweet and gentle, I have never seen him do anything like this to daughter Annie, he is very protective of her. And he is always flirting with his wife Ai who rarely obliges him yet he still doesn’t force himself on her.
これがどんな意味であったとしてもこのような映像がたくさんの人に晒されるモモカを想うととても胸が苦しくなります。
😂
お父さんのお尻の臭いを嗅ぐ息子ｗ😮