What is AC Coupling? How it Works With the Sol-Ark 12k
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- AC coupling with a Sol-Ark 12k and Solaredge grid tie inverter.
This can be done with any battery inverter that supports it.
Outback Radian
SMA Sunny Island
Magnum
Schneider
And a few others.
It's a great way to add on to a grid tied system to allow it to operate off grid!
Check out great deals on Equipment!
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Keep the SolArk videos coming. Really enjoy the content and your presentation style (easy to grasp and follow). Viewing from Canada!
You are the only person or video that has been able to explain AC coupling to me! Thank-you! Now I wish that I hadn't purchased the Solaredge SE10000H, and instead had waited for SolarEdge's new Energy Hub.
Brief explanation Sir, it will help for my future DIY Powerwall . 🤪
Thanks for sharing 😊👍
I like the videos you've been sharing and would like to see more!
Although that's a great explanation, it seems confusing until you see the little icons flowing back and forth. Thank you.
I'd love to see how you do a dump load to the water heater with the Sol-Ark. Including what components I would need to buy.
or for us in da south: dump energy in a phase-change freezer of some kind, to be used for night-time cooling.
Recommend video on choosing appliances to minimize peak loads such as heat pump electric hot water heater, HVAC units with inverter compressors or at least scroll and multistage compressors or separate mini splits, For you and many Heat pump dryers that also dont necessarily need venting either and inverter microwaves etc . Other means such as gas logs or gas tankless water heater or ovens LP natural gas to reduce peak loads or to use lower stage of HVAC on the rarely coldest days a few days a year.
Thanks for the video. I really like learning more about the Sol-Ark and am looking at the 12k. Maybe in future videos you can cover soft starting electric appliances.
Thanks for this is share! Do you have any type of drawing that can illustrate the hybrid inverter is merged into the grid-tied system?
I hope you will show how you set up the solarark to do the AC coupling. How do you make it change the Hertz so it turns off the other inverter
Thanks for the info James Purifoy.
Great video! You know what you are talking about!
Love your video from Cambodia
Good job, thanks for making this video
I have a enphase system. You can set the micro inverters to not export Based on the 2 CT reading. Essentially scaling up and down on all the micro inverters based off the load needs. That should work great Coupled with the Solar Ark.
I have not seen this done would you explain more if you can
Can you explain how you connect the AC to the panel and grid-tie inverter? A diagram will be nice
I currently have a 7kW solar array grid tied with a SunnyBoy. I'm building my large 500ah 48v battery backup bank. I also have a 15kW Sigineer low frequency whole house AC coupled inverter. I can run the house from the battery when the power is off which usually happens in the evening around here. What I want besides using the battery when the grid is down is to use the main inverter when the power is off during sunny days. The other thing I want is to balance solar and battery so both are running at the same time so no power goes back to the grid or use the grid unless there is no choice but to utilize the grid. Got an idea?
I have 16KW solar system with Enphase IQ8 micro inverters with grid tie net metering and no battery backup. What is my best option for adding battery?
Probably already answered but have been reading online that I can connect A/C coupling (Enphase Micro-Inverters) for the Sol Ark 5K and 8K only up to 3KW but the specs from Sol-Ark say 9.6KW for AC Coupling. My solar array is all with Enphase Micro Inverters. Really interested in using a Sol-Ark 8K with the HomeGrid Stack'd Battery. Recommend YES NO?
DC couple system sounds great, but is there any downside not having individual panel monitoring and shading like with the solaredge power optimizers?
I can use the sol ark AC in breaker to charge the batteries with out it back feeding the grid. Don’t want to use net metering.
Do you do one on one Q & A? I have some questions about doing a basic system but im getting mixed answers on parts I need
Love your videos! When the grid is not out can the Sol Ark backfeed all the power from the SolarEdge to the grid? Could the Sol Ark dump the SolarEdge power to the dump load? Or are charging the battery or using the energy immediately the only options for using the SolarEdge power?
I'm looking at basically doing this exact setup, but with zero export since net metering is dead here. Would definitely enjoy a follow up with that in mind.
I think the only way you can do zero export with a grid tie inverter in this setup is to hook it up to the Gen breaker. The Sol-Ark can't frequency shift when it's grid tied, so needs to be able to shut the grid tie inverter off. What utility do you have? We do still have net metering here but the decline is happening quickly.
Ben, another good informative video. Your subscribers will continue to grow as you make more videos exposing your knowledge to viewers. Need to get you to the thousand mark to get monetized and then it will really take off. Thanks again for sharing your expertise with the Sol-Ark 12K. By the way, do you use a cut-off switch between your Square D breaker box and the Sol-Ark?
Thanks Craig. If you're referring to the battery combiner, no, there's no shut off between it and the Sol-Ark. I'm using the DC breaker on the left side as my overcurrent for the combined output, and then each battery has its own breaker as well.
Is the SolarEdge 120? 240? Split? Does the Sol Ark support all of those? Just watched David's video on the trouble with having half power in split inverters (like the 12K), and am wondering how this plays into that.
hi, what power in dc? and how much in ac coupling? Thanks
Bad ass video
Hi I like to see your batteries and how many kw and so
Hey man awesome content! Is that solark inverter grid tie too or does only the solar edge need to be grid tie capable?
Thank you for the informative video, I'm currently purchasing a SolArk 15K, batteries, and panels for a grid tie system on a new all electric home. What I can't find much information on, is how beneficial it would be to DC couple 19K to the SolArk and then AC couple whatever else will fit on the roof (8-9 K more)using SolArk Microinverters. My thoughts are I would have more power to run loads during the day and export a lot more to the grid. But is it worth the extra cost? Or just abandon this idea and stick with the DC coupling only... I appreciate any insight you may have.
Hi, did you find the solution to your problem, whit ac coupling ?
Doesn't the Sol-Ark running at 61.5Hz mess with any of your appliances? My microwave seems to want exactly 60.0Hz or the clock starts loosing time.
I haven't had it there for long enough to tell at this point. By the looks of it, I could set the frequency to 60.3 and the SolarEdge would shut off. I'm going to play with the settings on the SolarEdge and try to get it to ramp down as the frequency increases. Apparently that's possible with them, I just have to dig into the settings.
@@benssolarandbattery t is possible they have a document on how to set it up
My clocks loose time when the gen is on
Im a solar contractor in FL
Appreciate the description of an AC coupled system. I have a SolarEdge system and want to add the Sol-Ark 12K but the local dealer wants me to replace the panels. I really like the idea of AC coupling to give me that 16K of peak power. In one of your videos you mentioned that you have done some battery exploration, have you done any tests on the PoyPow batteries? By the numbers they look great (they are mostly used for golf carts) but no-one can get me any specs on them so Sol-Ark would/could tell me how to hook them up. Could you provide some help?
Your local dealer doesn't know what he's doing. You can AC couple with the Sol-Ark very easily. I haven't used RoyPow, but they may work. One thing I noticed from their spec sheets is that they have a fairly low charge current. When AC coupling, you need to make sure that your batteries can handle everything that the grid tied array can output, plus have enough capacity to run your house at night. They Sol-Ark 12k can charge and discharge a battery at a max rate of 185 amps, and while you can adjust that number, you're limiting its potential by doing so. Hope this helps.
Why the ac coupled inverter had to be shut off when batteries are full? It could just sit there on standby, panels and inverter only produce when there is a load
Sweet setup. I noticed a singular Enphase Microinverter but can't tell if it's an M215 or M250. What is its purpose? BTW I'm also a solar contractor.
Thanks! That is an M250 that got chewed up by squirrels. I have a single panel acting as an awning over my heat pump that is hooked up to that. It was more for fun than anything, but it does work.
Hey man! Thanks for the info. Any chance you know if the Sol-Ark will work without batteries? Looking at (Slowly) building a system and adding batteries later. Thanks!
It will work without either batteries or grid, but not without both. Without batteries, you'll need a grid connection, but can set it to either feed excess power back into the grid or limit the amount of power generated to match your loads.
Hi Ben. Very informative video. I have the same challenge with se1000h hd wave inverter. From your video, if I use solark 12k inverter, can I connect more than 1 battery pack to it? Example i was thinking to buy lifepo4 set of 2 batteries 20kw each but wanted to check if this can be achieved?
The company sells a package where they sell 2 batteries 20kw each and two 6kw growatt inverter. Do you think growatt inverter spf12000 t dvm will work in this ac coupling scenario?
You can hook up as many 48v batteries as you want, but there's only one battery input. They'll need to be hooked up in parallel. You can use a separate busbar to parallel them. I don't think the Growatt can AC couple.
@@benssolarandbattery thank you very much.
I second the request to keep making Sol-Ark videos, as I'm learning a lot here. This house has a 3kw PV system (using a Delta Solivia 3.8TL inverter) that the previous owners put in. The original installer is no longer in business so I'm having another 4kw system installed. I would _very_ much like to still use the current 3kw system to charge the batteries should the grid go out, and it looks like the Sol-Ark will allow this without having to rewire the current 3kw panels. Is this true?
Yes, you can either tie it in as is on the load side or to the Gen breaker, or ditch the Delta and tie the string directly into the Sol-Ark as long as the voltages match up.
Hey Ben, What is the SolArks voltage output when the grid shuts down? I get 245V on mine and I'm just trying to see if thats normal or if mine needs to be replaced. The reason I ask is that my grid provides 236V-238V depending on the house loads and I cannot get my AC coupled Enphase micro inverters to turn on in a grid outage as they are sending Voltage out of range error codes. The SolArk screen is telling me its providing 240V but my meter is telling me otherwise.
Mine was putting out around 240v. The enphase micros should come online, even at 230-264v. I'd say the frequency might be off.
Does the Sol-Ark automatically cut off the grid connection when there's an outage and then reestablish it when it senses the grid again?
Yes, it does.
Thanks for sharing the info on the SolArk frequency shifting. I have a SolArk 8k where the PV input is maxed out and I want to add about another 1.8 kW of PV panels. I can either do as you have and feed the inverter/microinverter output directly into my microgrid through a breaker panel or I could feed that power through the SolArk Gen/AC Input. I'd prefer to do as you have as it's easiest for me and I do have a backup generator but I'm worried it might confuse the SolArk's power monitoring system where inputs/outputs don't add up correctly, particularly when the grid is up since I use the SolArk data to validate my net metering.
Can you speak to the advantages/disadvantages of each AC coupling method and how power flow monitoring is affected? Thanks!
Ooh that's a tough one. So when AC coupling is enabled, you lose generator input port on the Sol-ark 12k. (I assume it's the same for the 8k)
It will still auto start a generator but you need to use an Auto Transfer Switch and feed the grid input with both grid and generator run through it. Then you need to run the AC coupled solar through a relay so when the generator is being called for, it shuts off as to not backfeed.
At least on the 12k, the latest firmware allows for monitoring AC coupled solar as well, but only when it's tied into the Gen breaker. You can still tie it into your load breaker, but it won't be properly monitored. Did I get everything?? This stuff is fun!
@@benssolarandbattery Good thoughts on how to do both a generator and AC coupling through the 8K Gen Input. My primary question was whether AC coupling through a load breaker would be monitored or somehow confuse the 8K so it makes bad decisions since I assume it monitors power flow internally as well as at the utility drop via the CTs. If the 8k operates normally then I could just look at the difference between what the 8k says it generates and what is measured at the CTs to get the AC coupled power...maybe. I may just have to try it out and see what happens. Its good to know that AC coupling via the Gen Input will be monitored by the 8k. Thanks!
@@andyalden2260 the thing is, you'd have to know exactly what your usage is as well, as some of the AC coupled power will be used immediately as it goes into the load center and never go back through the Sol-Ark. That's why I'd recommend tying into the Gen breaker, so you can monitor the exact production.
You loose the gen breaker either way. It becomes unusable when AC coupling another inverter.
Do anyone know about "AC Coupling Box Grid" ?
So did I miss where you explained what ac coupling is? From the title I figured there might be some more in depth explanation 😃
www.sol-ark.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/12KOD-Manual-3-14-2022.pdf
Check out page 35 for AC coupling. You can use either load or generator input, but you loose generator use either way. Best to connect to generator input. You can also AC couple on grid tie output if you are completely off grid only
Have you ever done a straight-up DC coupled grid connected all-in-one system with a Hybrid Inverter with built-in charge controller controlling the entire system? It would seem for new install starting from scratch this would be more efficient and less costly.
I haven't. The issue here is that it's more difficult to meter the solar production. Our power companies require a production meter between the inverter(s) and point of interconnect. With a typical grid tied system, that is easy to achieve. With a Sol-Ark, it's not as easy. The solar production comes in as DC and is then split between the backed up loads panel and feeding the battery bank or the grid. The only way to do this accurately is to have 2 meters, one on the grid input and one of the load output. A few of the power companies won't accept this as well, so we're stuck with AC coupling.
@@benssolarandbattery I just checked with my local WE-Energies website and it seems that they require two meters in any case, even with an AC coupled system. Also, they only have one approved layout you can choose from, and any deviation requires an engineering design review & approval to be paid for by the customer. It would seem that they don't get many requests for hybrid inverter systems nor requests for DC coupled systems. www.we-energies.com/services/pdf/customer_owned_generation_diagrams.pdf
Hello Ben, just found your channel and it’s awesome.
I am building my off grid 7.2K system with 16 micro inverters IQ8A from Enphase. What would be an appropriate Hybrid inverter that can take the AC to charge the custom made 28kWh Lithium batteries. This is totally off grid to power a large car garage/man-cave.
I am already stuck this the micro inverters. Thanks for any advice.
Hi Ronnie, I'd recommend either the Sol-Ark 12k or 15k. They can both do AC coupling and will work well for you. Make sure you get an envoy with the Enphase system so you can view the individual panels, but also so you can change the grid profile. There are a few grid profiles that will allow for freq/watt throttling of the power output. Basically if the Sol-Ark raises the frequency by 1hz, the micros will limit power production instead of just shutting off.
Enjoy!
Hello Ben, thanks for your kind reply. If I go with the Sol-Ark, what’s the benefit of keeping the Enphase micros? Would it be better for the Sol-Ark the grab the DC voltage straight from the PVs? Maybe I could sell my new IQ8As if they won’t really do much?
I am new at this subject and find it fascinating on how much there is to learn.
Thanks again,
Ronnie Shand
Mechanical Design Engineer
I didn't know about Sol-Ark until your videos. Your points about DC vs AC coupling impact to the batteries are well taken. So, since the Sol-Ark website says these 12k units can be paralleled, any thoughts, pros and cons, of doing that? I'm wondering about the battery design and charge controller limitations in that kind of setup. I live where its quite hot and need to support HVAC, hence the twin units. Thank you.
Paralleling is a great way to do it. You can double the AC coupled input, or have access to all 4 MPPT inputs, or both. There is a primary and a secondary inverter, the primary controls everything but all functionality of the secondary is still available. No cons that I can think of really.
@@benssolarandbatteryDo both Sol-Arks have to be the same model, or can you use say a 12k and a 5k in parallel?
@@ssoffshore5111 I don't think the 5k can parallel at all.
@@benssolarandbattery Okay, same question, new 16k and 12k, or 12k and 8k???
If solaredge is producing 3400w in ac coupled situation, then why solarark is taking power from batteries to run the load?
Should it be showing all power from grid (i.e. ac coupled solaredge)??
Because the AC Coupled inverter is on the load side, so it can operate when the grid is down. In that scenario my loads were over what the SolarEdge was producing, so the rest is coming from the battery (off grid operation).
I have a solaredge 7600 HD and wanting to ac couple with my sol-ark 12kw.
What did you do to solaredge for it to work with sol-ark 12k
It will work right out of the box. When the Sol-Ark is near fully charged it will frequency shift and shut off the SolarEdge. To make it smother, there are power control settings in the SolarEdge that allow it to slow down power production as the frequency gets higher.
www.sol-ark.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/12KOD-Manual-3-14-2022.pdf
Check out page 35 for AC coupling. You can use either load or generator input, but you loose generator use either way. Best to connect to generator input. You can also AC couple on grid tie output if you are completely off grid only
How have you dealt with the grid tied side of AC coupling? When the grid goes back up does the Solar Edge switch back to grid or is the grid only fed by the Sol-ark?
When the grid comes back, the SolarEdge goes back on grid, but finishes charging the battery before exporting power.
@@benssolarandbattery Is that done with a transfer switch or internally from the Solar Edge? I'm familiar with the Sol-Ark and most of its functions but have not encountered any internal transfer switching that would switch the Solar Edge or other string inverter between between the load side and the AC input/output side. The closest would be the sell to house which involves the CT rings that prevents power from going to the grid from the Sol-Ark and supplying the main house circuit with power. If the string inverter could be made to operate from there during grid outages then that is a real valuable aspect of the Sol-Ark. It would still need to transfer to grid side somehow though.
@@mendohomepower7492 www.sol-ark.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/12KOD-Manual-3-14-2022.pdf
Check out page 35 for AC coupling. You can use either load or generator input, but you loose generator use either way. Best to connect to generator input. You can also AC couple on grid tie output if you are completely off grid only
So when the grid is down and Sol Ark tricks the SolarEdge to turn on, how to you prevent SolarEdge and Sol Ark from back feeding into the grid?
The SolarEdge is tied in on the load side of the Sol-Ark, so when the grid goes down, the Sol-Ark isolates is from the grid.
Hi,
It looks like you are the only expert here in youtube who can explain this ac coupling feature.
You have nicely described the off grid situation, but for me there still open points in the on grid situation.
1) Will a solark use an ac coupling power to charge the battery when the grid is available or will the battery be only charged from dc side an everything from coupled inverter will go to grid?
2) When the grid is available and the battery is charged, will the coupled inverter be switched off or will it feed the surplus to the grid?
Many thanks in advance
Hi and thanks for the comments.
The battery can be charged from AC coupled solar or from the grid. The Sol-ark won't shut off the AC coupled solar when the battery is full though, it will sell it to the grid. For that type of zero export situation you'd want to DC couple the solar.
@@benssolarandbattery thank you for the fast reply.
I have now a dc coupled solution, but I am allowed to sell to grid and wish to sell surplus energy to grid. At the moment, on surplus from solark goes to grid and after battery is charged, the dc coupled system just waits till next morning :)
So i wish to switch to ac coupled solution, but was not sure how it works in an on grid situation.
My goal is to use ac coupled system in on grid scenario and to have it work like that: first cover the loads; then, if there is additional power, charge the battery, then, if all loads are covered and the battery is fully charged, sell surplus energy to grid.
From your answer, I believe this is exactly how it works, am I right?
PS: charging from grid must be only allowed when the battery is fully discharged, to prevent it from over discharging
@@YarLeo yes, you are right. However, with your current setup, you should be able to sell from the DC coupled solar as well.
@@benssolarandbattery great, thank you for the the information.
Abou selling with current set up. How should it work? At the moment "extra" arrays are connected to the separate mppt chargers, which just charge the battery. If the battery is full, they just stop charging
@@YarLeo oh, I thought they were connected to the MPPT inputs on the Sol-ark. If they're on separate charge controllers, that won't work.
I have a question on AC coupled. Are you referring to micro inverters? Isn’t the advantage of them or the DC optimizers to not be weighed down by inefficient or shaded solar panels? Sorry for the dumb question.
Hi Brent, in general, AC coupling is done on the output side of any grid tied inverter system. In my case it's Solaredge, but can me done with enphase micros or any other grid tied system. Generally it's done as an add on to an existing system, but we do them on new systems as well where the battery will mostly be used for backup.
Great videos!!! I have a question. Are you able to sell back power to the grid from the solar edge inverter's panels and the the sol ark inverter's panels? Thanks in advance!!
Yes, they are both able to sell back to the grid. Up here, the utility requires a solar production meter for any grid tie solar, so there's not any incentive for selling DC coupled solar back to the grid, only AC coupled.
@@benssolarandbattery So you have a solar production meter connected to your solaredge inverter, up stream from the sol ark?
@@richardrasmussen8008 yes.
How does the Sol-Ark disconnect your house from the grid so that you don't backfeed in an outage? Or does it stay off until you manually disconnect from the grid and manually turn on the Sol-Ark?
The Sol-Ark has a grid sensing circuit, so as soon as the grid goes down, it stops all backfeeding and switches to battery and solar only. I'm feeding my entire house through it, but its limited to 50a (12,000w) max. I'm very cognizant of my power usage, so that's ok for me, but could be overloaded pretty easily with an all electric house.
@@benssolarandbattery In the all-electric house scenario, would multiple parallel Sol-Ark's solve the problem?
So, I want to continue grid-tie (I have "net metering") and want to do almost exactly what you're doing. Can you tell me which wiring diagram in the manual you are using? I just ordered the Sol-Ark 15 and a 300Ah battery, and want to use the sol-ark as my "disconnect" when grid goes down but run THROUGH it for normal off grid power. Anything you can do to help me advice-wise would be greatly appreciated. One question right away, I didn't order the "big" CT sensors, and I'm wondering if I need those (the 4-0 sized ones) for my 200 amp main service? I can still order them in time for my install (retired licensed electrician, so I will understand what you tell me). Edit: My big impetus is that here in Louisiana we get storm outages (think hurricanes) and I want to be able to be in good shape when the grid goes down but send power back to the grid when it's up.
Did you ever get an answer to this?
@@elvisvasquez97 Yes, thank you, I did - once my 15k inverter arrived and I installed it, I was able to work with the great Sol-Ark tech support and everything works fine. I am using the generator lugs for my old grid-tied system, and when the grid power goes off the old inverter keeps producing for the load and charging the battery. The Sol-Ark just thinks its AC Coupled micro inverters, even though it's a 7.6k Solar Edge grid-tie inverter. I have an additional 2.5k of pv working through the DC side of my Sol-Ark and I use a Big Battery Kong Elite (48v 300Ah battery). I have my generator feeding on the grid side of the inverter. Sol-Ark makes all this possible and very easy once you understand the settings and what they mean! I'm ready for the next long outage after a hurricane comes - and in Louisiana, there's always going to be another one, sooner or later.
Can you give some info on what settings you had to change with the SolarEdge to enable the frequency shifting?
Is it as simple as just changing your "location" to the "rule 21"? Or is there more to it?
Thanks for the video!
It will work right out of the box, but with a hard on/off as the frequency goes out and back into range.
Since this video, I've switched to a newer HD wave inverter with screen. I've attempted multiple times to get it to limit power based on frequency instead of just shutting off, but have been unsuccessful. I have one more thing to try, which is adding a jumper to the comm board, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
@@benssolarandbattery thanks for the response. Have you tried using the rule 21 setting? It can't be that easy can it?
@y0bailey yes, I tried that. Keep in mind that my inverter is older, so if you have the newer screen less version it may work differently.
Okay... When the gird is down, and you're AC coupled to the inverter, what keeps the energy produce from the solaredge from being placed back on the grid?
There is a relay in the Sol-Ark or other battery based inverter that disconnects the system from the grid. The Solaredge must be tied into the load side of that inverter.
@@benssolarandbattery I figured there had to be a transfer relay someplace. Question. Is the output of the Solaredge connected to the output of the inverter? And question two, why not use the internal battery charger of the hybrid inverter to recharge the battery and not have to frequency shift?
Can you AC couple with a Outback GS Radian inverter?
Yes, if it has an "A" at the end of the part number. You'll need to do a firmware update as well.
How does a transfer switch fit into this system? Do you use a manual or automatic switch to disconnect from the grid?
I'm running my entire house through the Sol-Ark. When the grid goes down, it automatically disconnects but keeps the house running.
@@benssolarandbattery When you use the Sol-Ark as the cutoff, does that limit your house (both in and out) to the 12KW that the Sol-Ark is rated for?
@@notaname59 If you have the 12k it can invert 9kw and pass through from grid through the sol ark grid tie another 15kw(the sol-ark grid output, grid tie, would still be connected. The ATS will be between the load out, grid power and load panel). So it would pass through power from grid to your loads. Unless, you disconnect completely from grid power at which point it peaks at 9kw, but if you have an ATS the sol ark would still be tied into the grid on the grid side.
If starting out from scratch, would a straight dc couple on just a single solark work if the grid is stable?
Absolutely. It can either act as a grid tied inverter and feed back to the grid (doesn't even need a battery) or you can limit power to your home or load without feeding the grid.
Ben's Solar and Battery can I have all my loads on the grid breaker until I get a battery and sub panel?
@@nebulight if you don't have a protected loads panel right now and are going to be using it as a grid tied inverter only, I would just leave everything where it is and backfeed the main panel from the "grid" breaker (or tap depending on your service). I don't believe it will work off grid without a battery.
Ben's Solar and Battery my idea would be to move my Three ton AC and some other minor circuits (lights and kitchen) to a transfer switch panel from reliance as my meter and main panel is one of those all in one units on the outside. Then in normal operation leave the transfer panel on the grid side and manually move if there ever was a power outage (which is very rare for Las Vegas). The idea of adding a battery is in Vegas these past two summers have been really hit so if it gets to the point where we need to conserve during the heat of the day I could supplement the grid with batteries. Also could sell back at higher rates if I switch to tou. Thoughts on this plan to leave all loads on the grid? Then if the power goes out manually switch? The idea of the manual switch is so I don’t overload the inverter with the AC and then some other high current loads since the grid pass through to the loads panel is limited to 50 amps I think.
With the AC coupled system described, how does it disconnect from the grid in an outage situation? I understand how the SolArk disconnects, but your other inverter has power to the panel and subsequently the grid???
Hi Jeff. In an AC coupled scenario, the grid tied inverter is on the "load" side of the Sol-Ark. The Sol-Ark has a "grid" and a "load" side. The grid side essentially acts like a grid tied inverter, and shuts off if the grid is out if spec. The load side stays on, completely isolated from the grid and powers your AC coupled inverter and any loads that are also connected there.
@@benssolarandbattery I think I understand what you're saying is happening inside the inverter, but isn't the inverter basically basically directly wired into your main panel (utilizing one of it's breakers and back feeding the panel when it's needed)? If the grid goes down and it starts creating it's own (off-grid) grid, how is the power being prevented from back-feeding to the outside main grid? Short of having an ATS or shutting the main breaker off, I don't understand what prevents it from back-feeding the grid in an outage. I'm obviously missing something in the system (such as an ATS) or my assumption that the SA is directly tied into the main panel is incorrect...
@Slippery Slope Thank you! I read up on it all after posting this several months ago and was impressed. I'm actually looking to purchase one (or similar) now.
Are you AC coupled on the load side of the inverter? Or are you feeding the generator input. Since my Schneider xwpro6848 isn't working the way I need it I am considering trading it in on a sol ark 8k.
I tied my solar in on the load side because because it was over the limit of the generator breaker on my Sol-Ark and I like having the extra available power during the day.
@@benssolarandbattery Can you put up a wiring and load / power diagram of your setup and link to the video description?
Do you know if most typical grid tie inverters slowly ramp after the 5 minute timeout? Or.. BAM HERES 5,000 watts!!!
I've seen usually around 5 seconds from 0-100. Slow enough so there's no BAM.
@@benssolarandbattery You can program a ramp function on the SolarEdge, if desired.
@Ben W I'll look into it. My solaredge inverter is from 2014 and sometimes does weird things... but I think you're right.
Can the sol-ark charge the battery from the grid? Why? Micro Inverters typically tie to the grid.
The Sol-Ark can charge from the grid, from its 2 charge controllers, from AC coupled solar and from a generator. In this scenario, the microinverters are tied into the Load side. If the grid goes down, the Sol-Ark keeps the microinverters running in a "microgrid" but disconnects them from the utility grid. It can also tell them to shut off by "frequency shifting" up to a preset frequency. The inverters see the differing frequency and shut down.
Hope this helps!
Ben
@@benssolarandbattery Thank you Ben.
What i dont really follow here is if the solark is overriding the antiislanding on your main inverter is this safe for the grid. Does this not lead to power getting fed back to the grid which could be dangerous if say the outage is for local maintence ? Do you have to do something physically when the grid is 'down' to seperate it from your micro gird ?
& thanks enjoyed the video :)
Hi Alex,
The Sol-Ark has its own anti Islanding circuit on the grid side. If the grid goes down, it shuts down the grid side, but keeps the load side active, powering the backed up loads and AC coupled inverter.
@@benssolarandbattery Aww cool sorry i thought it was providing power not just to the backup load panel but the main distritbution board.
@@alexmcmillan7147 in my case, I'm running all of my loads through the Sol-Ark.
@@benssolarandbattery totally makes sense!
@@benssolarandbattery Okay this makes more sense now. So your incoming grid lines come from the meter, into the Sol-Ark, and then the load side of the Sol-Ark feeds your main panel (power comes from the meter and goes into the SA before it powers the main breaker)?
This may be a complicated question. Why wouldn't it be ok to tie 2 different hybrid inverters to the grid without using a parallel kit or parallel hookup? Wouldn't they both synch to the grid and thus to each other? I can see if grid goes down they might have a problem since one isn't the Slave to provide the "grid " power then. Of course they could both charge same batteries but max power still limited by one inverter supply of AC
I don't see an issue with it, although you may want to have the loads on separate panels so the inverters don't fight each other.
@@benssolarandbattery yeah I am sure it would work that way because it would be just like 2 different systems on AC side and just like using 2 battery chargers to same battery on DC side. The point of not having a separate panel would be to get total power for load from one appliance like HVAC that would overload one of the inverters.
Thanks for reply!
@@teekay1785 if they are not synchronized it will be a catastrophe dont do it.
Typically you have a master inverter and then slaves. The master sets the phases the slaves do as there told.
This applies to when the grid fails of course
@@SolarTechFL Yes I am aware of that . Thats why I asked the question but its possible to use the generator switch to turn off one of the 2 inverters also so in the case of grid going down one inverter could be cut off. I dont intend to try it and even if I did I would try it with them hooked up to a single load not a service panel through a single breaker such as a cheap power tool or air compressor which would supply a relatively large load but I wouldn't care if it damaged it. If it worked I might try it on some type of electronic equiptment also such as a clock. I am just curious but I dont intend to risk the 2 inverters . I suppose it all depends on how fast the generator switch swapped the load and how long it would take the other inverters to cut off. If the generator switch cut the second inverter off quick enough no damage could be done but who knows and the generator switch would have to function correctly and be connected to relay to turn the second inverter off.
If your turning on the grid tie inverter aren't you back feeding the grid by bypassing it?
It's tied in on the load side of the Sol-Ark, which keeps it from backfeeding the grid.
I think what is confusing is that the SolarEdge USED to be grid tied, but after the retrofit, the new SolArk is grid tied and acting like a ATS, as well as being an inverter for the batteries. The SolarEdge is now merely an inverter for the solar modules. At least that's my take away from this.
Wouldn't it back feed the grid when tricked into thinking the grid is up? Isnt that dangerous?
No, because you're on the load side of the transfer switch which is built into the Sol-Ark.
What about the YIYEN 18kw inverter
It sounds like a tank, but as far as I know, it doesn't frequency shift. If I remember correctly you're using relays and dump loads with voltage based triggers? That is definitely another way to do it, I just haven't gone down that avenue. (Yet)
Why don't you get rid of your grid-tied inverter and use only the Sol-Ark? You'd minimize conversion losses. Do you frequently take advantage of the combined power output when the sun is out?
I'd love to, but I have a net metering agreement that is very beneficial to me which lasts another 4 years. If I were to remove the SolarEdge and go DC coupled, I'd need to add another power company meter to do it properly, which would change my agreement with them. I'm considering it, but not until my current agreement is up. I occasionally go over the rating of 1 Sol-Ark alone, but it's rare.
@@benssolarandbattery So you'd have to change to a provider that will let you use the Sol-Ark as your main inverter? I didn't know net metering involved such long contracts.
Ever think about a load controller? This prioritizes your loads. Electric stovetop would have the highest priority and water heater or clothes dryer typically lowest. This way you don't need as much inverter power at any one time.
Yes, that is a very good idea.
@@benssolarandbattery Will you be doing a video on the Sol-Ark Smartloads-14 controller and all it can (and can't) do?
so that 90-95% on-off cycling for the charging is because of Li-Pho batts?
Would that be worse with older lithium batts?
Why can't you just let a battery conditioner/topper-offer that runs on the AC side?
No, that's just in general. It's honestly much better to AC couple with lithium than lead acid though because of the charge profile lead acid requires. The only way the Sol-Ark has of limiting the power coming out of an AC coupled inverter is to raise the frequency. Some inverters (SMA, SolarEdge if programmed properly) can limit their output based on frequency above 60hz. So what the Sol-ark does is once the battery is almost charged, it starts raising the frequency a little bit. If the grid tie inverter doesn't respond and lower output, it raises the frequency more until it shuts off, usually around 61hz.
Hey, you edited that on me! SOC is adjustable as is the charging voltage for AC coupling. Lead acid likes bulk/absorb/float, where lithium is fine with just bulk/off. You could run a battery charger, but it would mess with the SOC readings on the Sol-Ark.
ah, your use/definition of coupling makes a lot more sense than the sales-talk from solar panel manufacturers & their contractors. They simply focus on getting the power from the PV panels into a battery array.
You're focused on simultaneous/boosted power use from both the panels & the battery array, and how to keep inverters and chargers functional.
Sir, please clear my confusion if we are using a hybrid grid and batteries connected inverter so why we need ac coupling system what extra benefit we get from two inverter ongrid pls hybrid as ac cuplin instead of only hybrid.
If you already have a system present and want to have battery backup and not loose the investment in the already installed system.
Why doesnt rhe solark just stop sending current to the battery when the SOC is met? Is it that dumb?
Because it's not the one sending the current. The AC coupled inverter is, and can be tied into the load center or gen breaker. If you're using the charge controllers in the Sol-Ark, then sure, that works perfectly.
What do you think of AC coupling via Gen-In input of the Solark versus load-side coupling. It seems your 12k has the Solaredge power coming in as load-side directly into the panel.
So where did you explain ac couple
I thought that's what I did in the video, but maybe not?? Please let me know what I missed and I can try to explain it better next time.
Sorry but it seems you take around it but never made the point
How does one do this incrementally without splitting panels? The solark is only a 60 amp breaker and I want to hook it in to our 200 amp service. 99% of the time that’s fine. Our 10kw generator (which has a 100amp breaker) can power everything so the solark should be able to do the same or kick to the generator. But how do I create a bypass so the house has 200 amp from the grid if available so I don’t have to buy 3 solark when the grid is live but fall back to the solark and solar/battery/generator when it isn’t? I realize this could cause the solark breaker to pop if the draw is too high when the power goes out but I can live with that as a risk but if I just use a 200 amp main and 60 amp back feed from the solark I’d be feeding back into the grid through the panel so I’m trying to figure out how to get back feed through the solark to the grid when it’s up and not when it isn’t and keep my 200 amps and I can’t find anything on how to set this up.
Thanks!
James, what you'd need to do is add a new small main panel with pass through lugs and a transfer switch. Then add the Sol-Ark grid feed into that new main panel, and the Sol-Ark load out to the generator input on the transfer switch. That way during normal operation, your 200a panel gets a 200a feed, but when the grid goes down, it gets the Sol-Ark feeding the main panel. You can still feed back into the grid during normal operation as well as zero your meter with the CTs that come with the Sol-Ark. Hope this helps!
@@benssolarandbattery thanks!
Why don’t you guys ever tell how much these things cost and how much you’ve got in your system
Just buy the Sol-Ark 15K and forget all the rest.
Well, that wasn't an option when I made this video. The 15k hasn't been without its issues as well, but definitely better than the 12k.
PLEASE invest in a quality remote mic for your videos!
I've been looking at them for a bit, time to pull the trigger. Thanks for watching!
First your description says 12K Solar and in the video you say 8K but they both output 8kw max continuous without grid so makes no difference.
My next observation is that in the Solar specs the max AC coupled input is 7,000 watts so it will obviously trick the on grid inverter to produce power but if say the house is using 1,000 watts at the time and its a good sun day even with discharged large battery bank you will not be able to use over 7,000 watts to charge the batteries. Granted this usually wont limit the system in practicality plus you could have a dump load too.
My last observation. Why not just replace the solar edge with a Solar 12 and sell the solar edge unless you plan to add more pv capacity or you want to be able to use more than the max continuous or peak loads of the solark 12 which is 9600 continuous grid connected watts.
The Solar 12k is definitely the cadillac of hybrid inverters in my opinion . It would be nice if they would come out with a 12 or 15kw max continuous output. As is many applications need to buy 2 unless they replace several high use appliances or HVAC such as to limit max loads. Not sure why the hybrid inverters limit the amount of power used when grid tied instead of using a relay to just pass through the grid power to whatever it can supply which would prevent the need for piggybacking multiple converters in a grid tied system.
Muddy....you never actually explain what AC coupling is.
I bet you spend a lot of time growing your food, as well. We need 48 hour days. 24 hours is not enough.
looks like a rat nest -- very dangerous install
Wohw... what a wiring MESS. If you where my installer, and you did THAT, you would have done ALL OVER again and clean it up before i would pay you a dime. Yes, i know you are tinkering with it. But this is a fire hazzard. Make it look more proffy.
Yup, definitely a mess. Definitely wouldn't do that at a customers house... thanks for watching!