Novels v Short Stories - Which Are BETTER?
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- In this video I weigh up the pros and cons of novels versus short story collections. As someone that reads more novels I decided to read and review The Stories of Your Life and Others by Ted Chiang as well as The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury to see if they could change my mind.
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00:00 - Introduction
01:36 - The Stories of Your Life and Others
05:56 - The Martian Chronicles
08:54 - Verdict
#ScienceFiction #Books
I have ordered The Science Fiction Hall of Fame, Volume One. I am thinking rather than reading it all at once, I will pick it up when I’m in the mood for a short story. Thanks for the recommendations!
When ever i am asked to recomend a SF/ book author to a newbie , i usually put some anthologies in their hand and see whom they like. Although truth be told , some authors seems to be better in the short story than the novel .( my bias and flawed opinion ) . And i agree in a collection some can be hit or miss . Thanks for the video .
Yes, some authors’ style might suit one or the other!
I love short stories! I usually read a book of shorts to clear my head after a big novel or series, or to acquaint myself to a new author without having to commit to much. Good authors for short stories that I like include: Greg Egan, PKD, Ted Chiang, Cixin Liu, and Isaac Asimov.
Those are some great authors! I’ll have to check out more of their short stories.
when I was first getting into science fiction and wanted to see what an author was like I used to buy a collection of short stories to see if I liked the authors style and ideas. Aldiss, Harrison, Ballard, Kim Stanley Robinson, Clarke, Watson all these authors I read first in short stories.
That’s a good approach Richard!
Team Novel here too! I used to subscribe to Interzone magazine but found I struggled reading lots of short stories. So the issues piled up and felt like a chore to try and catch up on. Which has probably set my life’s path down a route.
I hadn’t realised how “The Martian Chronicles” came to be before you mentioned it, but I think I’ve only seen the TV show 🤔 Like classic movies, I think I’ll eventually get to such classic books, but then the decades pass me by…
🤝
And yes, it can be hard to keep up!
Read Ted Chiang’s “The Merchant and the Alchemist’s Gate”. It’s from his collection Exhalation. One of the finest short stories I’ve ever read. One that manages a real emotional connection to the characters with fantastic philosophical elements. It won the Hugo and the Nebula for Best Novelette.
The Hugos and Nebulas love Ted Chiang haha. I’ll have to check out Exhalation next!
I completely agree with this. This short story has stuck with me since I read it several years ago. I also enjoyed the title story Exhalation but dropped off in this collection at The Lifecycle of Software Objects. The writing seemed sophomoric compared to the first two stories.
Check out The Science Fiction Hall of Fame, Vol. 1 edited by Robert Silverberg for classic short stories! They used it in my literature of science fiction class. I'd like a 45-60 page story. It would be a like a 90-120 minute movie. Chiang's Liking What You See inspired Scott Westerfeld's Uglies ya series.
Sounds great! 🚀
That (SFHoF v. 1) may be the single greatest SF anthology, at least for the era that it covers.
The Science Fiction Hall of Fame series includes the greatest science fiction short stories and novellas as chosen by the members of the Science Fiction Writers of America in the early 1970s. I also like the Hugo Winners books edited by Isaac Asimov. Philip K. Dick, Harlan Ellison, Richard Matheson, and Ray Bradbury have some excellent short story collections. Some authors write better short stories than novels, but why choose one or the other? Sometimes it is a nice change of pace to read a collections of short stories after reading really long books..
I enjoy both novels and short stories. One of the best things about short story anthologies is that you get introduced to many different authors and ideas. What I like most about novels is the journey you go on with the characters.
That’s a good perspective!
Ultimately I'm on team novel but short stories got me into sci-fi.
I agree that short stories don't often carry as much emotional weight but Stories of Your Life is the exception. Came together so beautifully in the end
That’s cool, I’m glad you connected with it!
I encourage you to continue on your short story journey. There are some wonderful omnibuses out there that cover a broad range of authors, eras, themes, and niches. Some really good ones include: The Science Fiction Century, ed. David Hartwell, for a chronological overview of the 20th century; The Ascent of Wonder: The Evolution of Hard SF, eds. Hartwell and Cramer and The Hard SF Renaissance ed. Hartwell and Cramer for a great review of hard SF and its evolution, Dangerous Visions, ed. Harlan Ellison for a fantastic slice of 60's new wave SF.
Thanks for the recommendations! Ellison is on my TBR!
My first favorite writer was Harlan Ellison, so I gravitated toward the short story form. Also, as I was just beginning my sci fi journey, I thought a good way to jump start my foray would be to read short stories from many different authors so then I'd have an idea whether I'd enjoy their longer offerings.
"Dangerous Visions" (and "Again, Dangerous Visions") edited by Ellison, and "100 Great Science Fiction Short Short Stories" edited by Asimov, et al. were great starting points. A reference book "A Reader's Guide to Science Fiction" 1979 edited by Baird Searles, Martin Last, Beth Meacham, Michael Franklin (with a forward by Samuel R Delany) was also an awesome help, as I could look up an author I liked and get suggestions for other authors that wrote in a similar way or about similar themes.
Even after all these years, though I have read many novels/series I'd say that I still prefer short stories. I just feel it takes enormous skill to distill grand sci fi ideas down into the short form so that they thoroughly resonate and entertain the reader.
That’s awesome! A couple of people have recommended Dangerous Visions, I’ll add it to my list!
Recently I read The martian chronicles, which I've read many years ago. And I regreted it! I didn't thought that would be so bored. So, for classic short stories those days, I would go for I, robot, by Arthur C. Clarke.
Interesting! I liked I, Robot too.
Great discussion Jonathan! I much prefer novels over short stories, but I’ve read a few really great short story writers. Neil Gaiman especially does it well.
Thanks Chas! I haven’t read any of his short stories but I’ve heard good things about Gaiman.
@@WordsinTime he’s so good!
I tend to be team novel though there are some great collections out there. Stephen King collections are always worth it. And I loved William Gibson’s collection, Burning Chrome, which had the classic, Johnny Mnemonic ,in it.
I’ll have to try some King stories! And I haven’t read Burning Chrome but I have seen Johnny Mnemonic haha
Stephen King is that rare author who is successful at all different lengths, from short stories to novellas to short novels to honkin' big novels to multivolume series.
@@WordsinTime If you're specifically interested in SF, try "The Jaunt."
That's a good point about a chapter in a book not hitting as well as the book overall but it still adds info or nuance, whereas a short story that doesn't hit seems a bit of a waste. Two books come to mind. First is City by Simak, a fixup novel that was written as short stories but has a flow of time and history embedded in it. I found it very beguiling. The other is one of the many PKD short story collections. I like his writing but the connecting sinew of his stories is too often his exploration of consciousness and human vs alien vs AI identity. His stories have a cleverness about them but after a while they feel like just another scenario with the same conflict at the core and a characteristic kicker at the end.
I'm currently reading Empire of Silence (great book) and Ruocchio's way of telling a very long story has me captivated. I noticed he has scattered some short stories into the series of novels. I feel a bit like a kid in school when the teacher says, 'Pay attention, there will be a test at the end.' 😀
I liked City but not quite as much as his novel Way Station. I’m glad you’re enjoying Empire of Silence. It has a lot of depth to it, and I think it’s a rewarding journey!
You need to read some better short story collections! E Pluribus Unicorn by Theodore Sturgeon, Burning Chrome by William Gibson, Dangerous Visions edited by Harlan Ellison, Driftglass by Samuel R Delany to name 4.
I think that it requires special skill to write a great short story that not all authors possess ... & that a great short story will hit harder & resonate longer because of it. While short stories may not topple novels in our popularity, the best ones should at least be on equal footing.
I’m sure there are some authors whose strengths suit the short story. I’ll keep making my way through some more collections!
Theodore Sturgeon! He wrote tons of short stories and he would place his characters in deep space, on a therapist couch, or even in a Stephen King nightmare world. He was also quite progressive and an accomplished stylist in a day when those features were the exception and not the rule. Anthologists loved him back in the day so there are plenty of stories out there waiting to be read!
That’s awesome! I loved More Than Human so I look forward to reading more Sturgeon!
Another good way to compare short story vs novel is to read novels that were expanded from shorter works. As an example, Farenheit 451 was an expansion of the novella "The Fireman." A contemporary review in F&SF (Dec 1953) very much preferred the original novella.
Also, while comparing a collection to a novel feels like comparing book to book, I think it makes more sense to compare a single story to a novel. Otherwise it's like comparing a single novel to a trilogy. Or like comparing a short story to a chapter in isolation.
Have you read many year's best anthologies or active magazines. Part of my love of short stories is there's a new one to check out every day!
Good points Jack! Some of my favourite novels have been expanded such as Flowers For Algernon, Blood Music, and The City and the Stars. It would be interesting to read the original stories/novellas to compare!
Flowers from Algernon is the most emotionally devastating story I've ever read! Absolutely perfect...both versions. I particularly enjoy the epistolary format (Dracula by Bram Stoker is another good example). @@WordsinTime
You make some good points about the advantages of novels. It's true that short story collections are often a mixed bag. However, there's plenty of really great sci-fi literature out there in this form. Cordwainer Smith and Fredric Brown are two classic short story writers I can highly recommend - I'm rarely disappointed with their stories.
I’m looking forward to reading Cordwainer Smith. I’ll have to check out Fredric Brown too!
I don't think it's accurate to refer to The Martian Chronicles as a novel. I know that some people do (including Wikipedia), but I would never do so-it seems like a misuse of the word.
For whatever reason, short stories are out of fashion nowadays, both in science fiction and in general. There were a lot more people writing, reading, and talking about them in the mid-twentieth century. I think that's a shame, as it's nice to be able to read something short and self-contained. And there are writers, including Bradbury, for whom the short story medium comes more naturally.
I agree that The Martian Chronicles feels more like a collection than a novel.
Short stories used to be a lot more popular with the prominence of magazines, which aren’t as common nowadays.
Another good short story anthology I just remembered liking is "The Future I" (1981) edited by Asimov. Every story is from first person perspective.
I'll look it up!
I'm actually just as drawn to short story collections & anthologies, as I am towards novels, & I've read quite a few short story collections that are remarkably consistent in quality - the drawbacks for the uninitiated reader is that the short story hasn't got much time to develop it's characters - but I've never really been bothered by that.
& I can see where it's much easier for the reviewer to read & grade a novel than it is a short story compilation.
The good thing about short stories is that if you don't like a particular story, the agony won't last too long because it's....well.....short.
Whereas if a novel isn't doing it for you, you have to seesaw between DNF-ing it, & prolonging the torture by continuing with it, in the hope that the story will come good for you....somehow....
Haha yes sometimes we hold out hope for a long time and it never comes around.
ebooks have changed how I read in several ways. The length of stories is one. I don't have to pick up a whole collection. Standalone short stories are common, as are unconventional lengths like novelettes.
I like having them on hand to read between other books, or when I need a break from a mammoth.
That’s a good way to schedule your TBR!
I want to love short stories. But it always feels like you're just getting started and then it's over. If it's really good, you're left wanting so much more. It's like being given just a small taste of your favorite dessert. Because of that, I end up not letting myself become too invested because I know I won't have long in this world or with these characters. That said, I've been dying to get The Stories of Your Life and Others because I loved Arrival! (Though I still can't quite understand it. I'm slow like that.)
I made the mistake of finding an online copy of, Hell Is the Absence of God. I was left angry too. I don't know where this guy learned his concepts of God, but it sure wasn't from the Bible. No one gets to heaven on their good works. The fact that we can't love God perfectly is the whole point. No one ever has. No one ever can. That is why Jesus Christ came, lived that perfect life that we could not live, and died to pay for the sins of those who accept His pardon on their behalf. There will be full justice one day. But we really don't want that, because it means we all go to hell to pay for our sins. We need mercy - the mercy that Christ offers to those who receive His offer of pardon.
I think short stories are best when you’re in the mood for something short, but personally I’m just drawn to longer stories.
I’m with you in that I enjoy reading short stories, but prefer the way detailed exploration of ideas is possible in a novel. It seems to me that if the idea for a short story is good enough, in most cases, it deserves to be expand into a novel.
Yes, and that is sometimes the case with things like Flowers For Algernon!
@@WordsinTime Yes. Perfect example. 👊🏼 Blood Music, I think, is another one.
You should read the Dangerous Visions compilations, essential and quite important to the history of the genre.
I’ll add it to my list!
Ha! Jonathan u r always thinking of a new angle. But agree I prefer novels also as long as they aren't too long or the author has to stretch them out into trilogies or longer ⚛😀
Thanks Frank, I try! And yes, it’s not so good when a trilogy could have been just 3 short stories haha
I wish you make a comparison between the the books of the Three body problem and the tv series of Netflix. best regards
I just started watching!
To me short stories in the sci-fi genre tend to be a way to convey clever and compelling ideas. Sci-fi novels on the other hand typically use science fiction as a vehicle to explore far more deeper and complex issues, more often than not in relationship to the human condition. For me personally, Sci-fi novels win hands down, but there are some exceptions, such as the Worthing Saga by Orson Scott card.
That’s a good perspective!
I don’t see it as a fan of one or the other. I think of them as different types of mental meals. Do I want a snack (short story) or do I want a meal (novel). Even in the novel category, it can be do I want a twelve course meal or do i want some fast food. I also don’t usually read a whole short story collection at one swipe but intersperse them with other types of reading. Since they are not usually meant to connect, there is no reason. I also might recommend reading a story collection made of different authors, which can be a great sampler platter.
Yes, this was just a way to compare pros and cons. If you are in the mood for one or the other then that’s what you should read!
idk if this a popular or unpopular opinion, but i find Dick's short stories are better than his novels (although I haven't read yet some of the canonical ones, such as Ubik). I recall now "Beyond lies the wub" and "Misadjustment", pure awesomeness. On the other hand, and this for sure is an unpopular opinion hahaha, I dont like Asimov at all, but his short story "Nightfall" is so good i'm certain he was probably possesed by something when he wrote it. so idk, i can't pick sides hahahaha.
(Random: "Story of your life", the actual story, is written in a second person narrator, which I recently learned is an oddity in fiction. I want to read it again to observe this better).
I’ll have to try out some PKD stories.
And Stories of Your Life is kind of a mix of 1st and 2nd person narration as it’s told from the 1st person perspective of the language expert, but in a way uses 2nd person narration to describe the future actions of her daughter to whom she is speaking.
I like both and can't say I have a favorite; it mostly comes down to my mood. I do like it when short story writers place a lot of their stories in the same world. Switching planets / physics / timelines can be jarring in the same collection.
Yes, they have their strengths. And too like it when there’s some connection between the stories.
I think I was very mixed on 'stories of your life...'. As a (lapsed) mathematician I loved the maths story, but there were many I felt 'meh' about. Martian Chronicles is high on the list of the shame though. I read a lot of short stories when I was young. Maybe short stories were easy for me to digest as a 9-11 y/o at the time. Used to read most;y Clarke and Asimov shorts, but had a few collections too.
That makes sense, maybe short stories are good for getting younger people into sci-fi.
I would agree that that the quality ceiling is much higher with novels. I do adore the ability of a short story collection to quickly explore lots of different ideas without feeling bloated or bogged down. I find the best time for a short story collection is often after one of the big brain burner sci fi novels.
That’s a good way to schedule them!
@@WordsinTime They're also a great way to get out of a slump, nothing intimidating about a short story collection, as you said can always just read one, or two and stop. So if I ever feel a bit drained by a bunch of long books, it's time for a short story collection.
I will always be team novel. In fact, I would say I'm on #teamchonkynovel.
Haha glad to have you on the team Cheryl!
Just as a note, both Flowers for Algernon and Ender's Game started as published short stories that were later expanded to novel length. There's a lot of really good short SF out there.
I think that your experiment was perhaps flawed, in that you tried short stories by two authors, which _might_ tell you something about how well short stories work for you, but might only tell you how much you like short stories by those two authors. For comparison, I could read a novel by Iain Banks and a novel by Gene Wolfe and say that I don't like novel-length fiction.
Now, it happens that while both of those authors have strong followings, I've read enough SF&F novels (several thousand) to know that it's not the format, it's the authors in this case.
You might do better to read a multi-author short story collection to get a better feel for the breadth of the format. Somebody below suggested the Science Fiction Hall of Fame, Vol.1, which is absolutely brilliant (though it's unlikely that every story will be a hit for you, of course). Others you might consider could be the Grantville Gazette books (multi-author, set in the world of 1632), the Worlds of Honor series, set in Weber's Honor Harrington world, Thieves' World (a multi-author low fantasy series), or Harlan Ellison's Dangerous Visions.
For other single-author anthologies, I'd suggest Heinlein's The Green Hills of Earth, Willis's The Last of the Winnebagos, Randall Garrett's Lord Darcy books, or Bujold's Borders of Infinity.
All that said, I generally prefer novels to shorter works. But avoiding short SF&F will see you missing some truly amazing writing.
Thanks for all the great info Doug!
I have read other short story collections before. I just focused on these two as they are two that I just read recently so I could share new thoughts with the audience. I will try some more multi author collections, including the hall of fame collection.
Also, I think that stories like Ender’s Game and Flowers For Algernon that were expanded into novels (as well as Blood Music, The City and the Stars and others) are more famous as novels goes to show the greater potential of the novel.
You can't really compare a novel and a short story collection. They're not at all meant to be the same thing. Of course a collection is non-cohesive. They're simply stories written over the course of someone's career, not a themed book. If someone wants to put together a themed collection it's generally a fix-up.
Short stories can certainly have a strong emotional impact. That's the whole point of them, creating a single impactful moment to illustrate the point the author is trying to make. You'll never forget the best ones. Read "I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream" and tell me it's not a gut punch. It's just that there are good ones and bad ones, just like novels. I rarely read a novel that hits me hard. People just haven't written many of them. The cream of the crop, short stories or novels, are great because of their impact on us, and neither does it better, just differently.
They are different and you can connect with them differently depending on what you’re in the mood for.
I also prefer novels to short story collections. I find it kinda hard to have to stop and star and stop and start news stories. It takes me out of the reading momentum a bit. The one author that can keep my attention and make me care for almost everyone in his short stories is George R. R. Martin.
I feel a similar way! And I’ll have to look up some of Martin’s stories.
@@WordsinTime I recommend Tuf Voyaging because as a fix-up novel, it's easier to get into.
It’s not short v novel, it’s what you feel,like at the time. The best short story of all times is Isaac Asimov “Nightfall”.
Yes, this was just a discussion of the pros and cons of each. Eg. The Beatles v Pink Floyd. Read whatever you’re in the mood for. You don’t have to read/listen to just one haha
👍 👍
Cheers!
You might consider the magazine 'Analog Science Fiction & Fact'. I can no longer recommend its sibling 'Asimov's Science Fiction' because I think it has lost its way.
I know the magazine but I actually don’t own any of them. I’ll have to check it out!
You no doubt have but, 'The Illustrated Man'.
It’s on my list! Glad you liked it!
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#teamboth 😊
Haha that works too!
It feels more like you were comparing and contrasting short story collections with novels than novels with short stories themselves.
True
Wrong! Apple cider vinegar or ACV to us connoisseurs is a splendid night cap, especially after a thorough teeth scrubbing.
This is a wild take