So, they changed the system already and the link below to the Spotify page doesn't work anymore just a week after this video? Am I right? Loved your vid tho...
Something else to consider, is that Spotify users can also just turn off the “Loudness Normalization” option. Fully disable it. I tested a few hip hop tracks (popular releases and some underground stuff). With LN on, they were the expected -14 LUFS and their True Peaks were down around -2.5 to -3 because of the loudness penalty. However with LN disabled, these same tracks had integrated LUFT around -9 and True Peaks at 0.3 to 0.5. HUGE differences in loudness. (You have to reload the song that’s cued for the disabled setting to take effect). My concern here would be, for percentage of listeners who disabled the LN setting in Spotify, your track may sound very quiet coming off a list of tracts all at -9 LUFTS. Your song is mastered at -14 (or -13) so you will incur a minimal penalty when LN is enabled. But if an end user turns off the penalty machine... well now you’ve self inflicted your own penalty to be the quietest track they hear all day. If LN is disabled, they are not adjusting volumes. It is what it is at that point. Commercial releases are all up at -9 LUFT (likely louder for really heavy stuff). They all still sound good when the LN turns them down. I think it might be a good ideal to disable LN... take a bunch of readings from artist you respect to reference, in a similar genre, average those readings and submit your masters at the levels that seem to be working for them. Accepting that your volume WILL be turned down for the majority of listeners with LN enabled. At the same time protecting you loudness levels from those who turn it off. If it sounds good at -9 LUFT it should sound just as good to the end listener if they’ve cranked the volume, or turned it down halfway on their headphones. Essentially, that is all the loudness penalty is doing.
Converting FLAC to WAV is *not* a destructive process! You can do that a million times (FLAC -> WAV -> FLAC -> ...) and still get the original file in the end. So that concern is pretty baseless. The same goes for Apple Lossless btw. And yes, FLAC also supports higher bitrates than 16bit, and also higher frequenzy settings than 44100.
When you listen to Spotify with the loudness normalization turned off, you'll find, that not a single professional track is mastered at -14 LUFS. I made the mistake once to master a track at -14. Now, when i listen to it (loundess normalization turned off) it sounds crappy next to all the other tracks, just because of the loudness difference. So in my experience right now it is not advisable to stick to those spotify mastering guidelines. Maybe this will change in the future? What are you're own experiences?
@@fluctura most of the time I look at a couple of songs from the same genre, that I like and then target a similar level. The exact value changes. A Brooks / David Guetta Production is way louder than a fluffy Singer-Songwriter Production. So for me there is no ONE level to target. But none of the reference tracks are at -14 LUFS.
Same experience here...and last year i asked on fb how many of my friends have loudness normalization turned on...it was only 1/3 of them. I like the idea of -14 Lufs, but as long as Loudnes normalization is just an option, i prefere louder master coz i am listening on spotify with it turned of too. i usualy give my clients the hint to use my -14Lufs and -1 true peak for uploading on youtube and my loud masters for spotify. For any other streaming plattform i dont give an advice Cheers
I also mix tv and radio commercials. For Spotify the level should be -14LUFS. But when you listen to Spotify the commercials are always much louder than the music. Speciality their own crappy commercials....
I honestly think that, instead of worrying about how loud a track is, you worry about how dynamic the track is. Or instead, you are at least aware of what the LU range is. If a track is at -14 LUFs, and has a high loudness range, you're good! Same with tracks that are -7, -6, -5 LUFs, etc. Distortion or no distortion, if it sounds great, it sounds great!
How much is good dynamic range to have? I remember i saw a video saying that 5-6db is okeish and above 6 is more than good, for a track mastered at -7-8 LUFS, but i'd like to hear some more opinions
@@koe4542 There isn't a right answer I don't think. might depend on your genre, context, what you're referencing maybe and what just sounds right to the music, and just like with LUFs, you should check with your ears too.
If Spotify ain't making you money, you're doing it wrong. Learn to do it so that a few million people listen to it five or ten times a day, and you'll have no complaints about the money.
Spotify making music with ads and low quality audio where you onky earn small fee if you het crazy amount of views. Those business are bit corrupted indeed. Even Bandcamp is a better option or selling cd's or Vynil. Even Cassetes get still sold in the metal/punk scene
Great video! And I totally sympathise with the fact that we always have to disclaim that we are not sponsored if we get enthusiastic about something on CZcams. It IS tiring and funnily enough, most people that are into gear and music production tend to be enthusiastic about what they do :)
I was mixing my metal -10LUFS.And i have check it up.And my mixes was destroyed.I made them -14LUFS and sound is perfect.A good tip this time mate.Thank you.
Did you lower the true peak? Spotify adds a limiter at -1 db and the file type they convert clips over delivered true peak which is why the recommend -2 true peak.
Thank you for this. I recently learnt that -14 LUFS doesn't necessarily mean quieter. An example of this is Kenny Mason's Angelic Hoodrat. It has a great perceived loudness and lower LUFS than most loud songs. Glen Schick mastered. It sounds great to me.
Aaaah, very interesting! All your videos about mastering are a great help especially these days as I'm mastering an ambitious album I have mixed and I want to take care of it.
Aileé Zaga has a good video on the CZcams loudness normalization, and Marques Brownlee has one on the CZcams compression (he does talk about the audio as well as video). But of course, I would be interested in your thoughts as well! This video was very helpful, and honestly much more interesting than I expected!
I realize that as I’m writing this (Dec 2022) this episode is now a year old, but I still find it to be very informative, and very pertinent. Thanks for taking the time to clarify, and to cut through the confusion, Vytse. While I was already aware of Spotify’s requirement of -1dB true peak for -14 LUFS, I did NOT know about their requirement for a true peak of -2db for LUFS that are hotter than -14db. And, I absolutely agree with you about mastering to the -14db LUFS “target” that Spotify prefers… Like yourself, I would much rather deliver audio that was a bit hotter than -14db LUFS, and have them “penalize” me by turning the volume down…as opposed to delivering something shy of -14db, and leaving it to Spotify to make the volume louder, as increasing the volume would likely involve the use of additional limiting, and THAT has the potential (probability) of introducing distortion. And, considering the massive amount of content that Spotify receives (even in one day), it’s safe to assume that the limiting would be an automated process, (a “bot”) and not monitored and controlled by an actual mastering engineer, (or anyone human) who would understand the process, and know to take precautions to avoid it (along with any other possible wizzly artifacts that are inherent in lossy formats) which could audibly alter the fidelity of the original master. Anyhooo… Great video. 😊
I find it interesting that I watch this channel for, among other things, learning different mixing techniques and the video is interrupted my an ad that states "if you're watching this video to learn how to mix, it won't help". I wonder how many content providers are having ads contradict their content.
I have normalization turned off in Spotify. 100% of the music I listen being new or old is mastered loud. As long as normalization can be turned off, I wouldn't master to -14 lufs.
I personally like it when I don't need to adjust the volume for whole listening session and everything is nicely on the same loudness. On other hand I don't like what Apple Music does with its normalization.
I normally go to around -8 lufs even to -6 lufs in extreme loud areas of the song. It usually compares decently to most songs (which are damn loud) with normalisation off, however sounds much better than them when the normalisation is on. So a good middle ground ish. Plus the track will hold up to radio play !
Also audio mastered for audio is also around -14LUFS! The most old fashioned analog format (vinyl) and most modern digital format (audio streaming), both killed loudness introduced by CD format! Now, isnt that something....
This is great information, I was working on a album and wasnt too concerned with matching loudness as I thought streaming would handle it but it appears to not be so!
Spotify changed to LUFS in November/December 2020. And they have changed the normalisation settings so that Quiet and Normal level settings never apply a limiter. They will only raise the volume as far as the max TP value allows.
It's a great video and explanation. I've been working very hard to get my tracks to the correct loudness recently and this certainly helps. It's an interesting note on being slightly above the recommendations to avoid positive gain and the additional limiter. I try to avoid limiting as much as possible.
Im totally wanting to see this kind of video about the youtube audio!!!! im mainly using youtube as my music listening service and i would really like to know all about the weird stuff that their algorhythm is doing with the sound of the files that we upload to this site!!
This is still baffling to me. For starters, I just ordered and received a CD from a very universally heralded alternative rock band who’s album was released this previous summer of 2020. I just put the tracks up in SoundForge and they are loud - generally -8.7 dB lufs all the way up to -6.7db lufs, depending on the song. I fell in love with this album listening to it on Spotify Premium but with volume normalization turned off. I always keep normalization/volume match turned off. This is not the only ‘new’ album like this. Almost every time I buy a new album (in recent years) which, in terms of genre are within the alt/indie arena of artists, the albums contain songs which sit between -10 and -7. It is my understanding that until the FCC ever actually passes legislation to impose forced volume normalization to be permanently engaged on all streaming apps, mastering for loudness normalization is simply NOT generally being honored; only the slightest fraction of artists or mastering engineers are presenting masters at -14 dB lufs - of course, I suppose, they will be considered sages when and if the legislation ever kicks in but it has been sitting idle for over 5 years now. Furthermore, maybe my ears are just ‘tuned for loud’ after all this time but I actually dig the way my mixes ‘feel’ when I get them glued in with bus compression, eq, saturation and limiters. When I apply these tools to my tastes, my mixes tend to naturally so sit around -10 to -9 lufs. Wth? 🤷🏻♂️
Cd’s are going to be louder, a lot of engineers are making separate masters for each format, with cd generally being the loudest. I didn’t even know until now that turning off normalization was an option, and I doubt many people do that. So keeping that in mind it’s probably still a good idea to aim for -14LUFS for streaming and save the loud loud mix for CD’s and downloads.
@@godofspacetime333 two sets of masters? I’ve inquired about the prospect of both, the “streaming master” and the CD master in a number of forums; a number of places where topics like this are underway and it has been virtually unanimous that it would be very unusual to run two sets of masters. It would, however, be a sweet way to pad the pockets of mastering engineers. Not trying to be too cheeky with that last comment but I have been asking around, looking under rocks being curious if multiple sets of masters are starting to happen. I’ve not seen it or heard concretely of instances of this yet. Though, it honestly makes sense. ...not to do masters for all various streaming apps, but two - physical media masters and streaming masters. Though, it does sound dubious....removing perceived loudness to knock a track down 3 or 4 lufs in various manners is very likely going to alter the balances and power of the mix - tonally ...and even effect perceived instrument balance relationships. 🤔 ..the rabbit hole is real.
Same. Commercial music just doesn’t sound contemporary when left more dynamic imo. People never talk about the fact that limiting not only kills your transients but also makes the vocal level louder. When I master at -14 and listen on headphones the drums smack but the vocal is not as up front.
@@maxmileski1248 yeah I would think they must, I mean a song mastered at -6LUFS being penalized down to -14LUFS must be pretty noticeable but idk. But as far physical formats, they have to. You can do whatever you want with a cd, make it as loud or dynamic or as bassy as you want, but that physically wouldn’t work on vinyl or cassettes. The grooves can only be so deep on a record, and cassette has a much higher noise floor and weird frequency response (plus noise reduction to take into account). As far as big studios/labels, maybe streaming is the one format that they decided not to make new masters for, but I’d be surprised about that, especially considering that’s where they’re making all their money now. Though it is kinda weird how, with all the information and interviews from mastering engineers on CZcams and stuff, you don’t hear much about providing different masters for different mediums..
@@godofspacetime333 I guess most Spotify listeners don't disable normalization, but as a music lover I always like to have control over the software I use to listen to music, so I do scan all the options when I install something. That's when I saw the normalization switch turned on and I instantly turned it off.
Again, you don't need to play with the gain fader in Pro-L 2 to try to get to a certain LUFS number, just use MLoudnessAnalyzer and it does it automatically. There's a lot of plugins that adjust the volume of your track automatically to reach a certain point in the LUFS meter, even Waves has one, but the one made by Melda is the best in my opinion; simple, straight to the point and works great.
pay attention that true-peak is not the peak. But the peak forming through peaks, during D/A conversion. There are plugins (also free) that are showing these, and limiters that are taking under control True Peaks, like the Pro-L2 you are using
This is very interesting 🤨 thank you for this info! 🙌🏾 I agree, transcoding is the problematic part and nobody can avoid that. Many people commenting here about how loudness standards can be avoided/ignored but transcoding hot files can/will provide distortion. It’s digital audio. So going loud as possible in your submission seems foolish unless you want bit distortion. And bit distortion always seems to garble the clarity and diminish the stereo field. Seems to me (mathematically) a min of -11 LUFS while having 2db of headroom in the submission is ideal. Which would make the mastering close to a min or 9 RMS/LUFS before the peak headroom. I imagine if you’re doing a “single”, you could simply apply the transcoding yourself to simulate the affect and tailor the headroom for your submissions.
The issue with headroom is peak related, not average related, and therefore not loudness related. You can have a -9LUFs master with 1dB true peak headroom and you can have a -11LUFS master with the same 1dB true peak headroom. Granted, in many instances a mastering engineer will produce a CD master with 0.1db of peak headroom and will then just lower this by a fraction of a dB for the streaming and download master because its quicker. There are good tools now like Streamliner that allow you to audition the codec while mastering. This means in many cases you can push it to -0.5 or so with no issues. It's highly program and genre dependent.
@@julianknowles7450 I think auditioning the codec is the important part. Because a master with -9/-8 LUFS is more likely to experience distortion when converting. (Because they convert to the streaming codecs first before they loudness normalize) Best is to test it. Furthermore, best is to master it so it sounds good. But to your point, sending it out based on peak level is the way to go. Give the headroom it needs for the codec (or not lol) My point about a min of -11 LUFS is because if it is below that level [and someone listens to Spotify “Loud” or other settings] Spotify will apply additional limiting to bring your track up to -11 (and that could be unflattering).
So basically cutting everything over 21kHz and mastering at -2,1 dBFS TP and around -10,9 iLUFS will end up with the file that doesn't get changed at all (not considering transcoding loss) on Spotify?
13:16 is why I keep the normalization setting off, it ruins songs, especially older music that wasn't sausaged. It helps to also compare your favorite track(s) with the setting off and on. Most of the tracks on the Global Charts playlist hit around 6-9 LUFS without normalization.
FYI, they have since updated their system to a) use integrated LUFS and b) only apply the limiter when using the "Loud" normalization setting, which is not the default setting (hooray!). Much better now.
Yeah we talked about the -14 LUF , I said it depends on the type of music you're making. Great video! Are you familiar with the Youlean Loudness Meter?
People/engineers need to chill about this whole "mastering for streaming" and "-14LUFS". Do a good sounding and, yeah, loud master and you are good to go. Just take a listen to all the commercial releases, nobody masters at -14Lufs, but rather -11 to -6.
There´s been a wonderful Google Talk from Andrew Scheps about that. Audio Quality in Streaming Media. But almost 10 years old so the algos won´t work like that now I think. But still and for other reasons interesting. Concerning the whole topic.
I read a lot of comments of people that say that -14 is not that good.. but if you make your songs at -6lufs what about the db? are you using -1db or -2db?
Hi man. Maybe a silly question, and maybe I missed it in a previous video, but what mic you are speaking in to? It sounds pretty good. So my curious mind wants to ask you this question ;)
I personally always bring my masters loud (av. - 9 LUF), 48/24, - 1.3 dB TP for all platforms. As you say, I prefer my music turned down than compressed more; if someday streaming services decide to turn up their volume, I don't have to be worried since I'm already loud, therefore the only issue I have left is true peak and dynamic range 🤷♂️.
Same here. I av -9 sometimes -8 for some projects that are more aggressive w no issues.... When I started to mix my tracks at -14 they lost the cool natural compression that comes from a limiter pushing harder along w other processing..
What will happen is the day Spotify and/or other platforms decide to change the LUFS "reference" to let say -12 or -10 then all those who have mastered at -14 will loose that competitive sound versus the louder ones. Also, when artists submit music to curators, their music is judged by people listening the WAV file without any normalization and these people listen to one WAV file after another without turning constantly their volume knob. Quiet masters are at risk of not being selected. I have made the test myself: the same song mastered at -14 LUFS and then at -9 LUFS. The -14 LUFS version of the song was rejected from all playlists and was qualified as "unfinished". The -9 LUFS version sent to the same curators was accepted in 5 playlists and 3 radio stations. This was the exact same sound. Just the gain what different. The loudness war has never ended and will never do. Somehow, despite of the normalization, loudness remains important, but with some balance with dynamics. This interesting experience that I describe here changed my perspective about mastering as many artists rely on the number of playlists selections of their music to judge the work of their engineers.
You should aim for a little bit of penalization because some streaming platforms such as CZcams will not turn it up if it is below -14 LUFS and therefore will sound weak compared to other tracks.
But woudn‘t it be better to master to like 11 Lufs (if possible for the song of course), so that the song doesn‘t get crushed by spotify on the „loud“ setting?
Its definitely interesting to see and hear all this explained but at the end of the day i think different sounds at the consumers are much more due to different speakers and room acoustics than the last 2 dB processing during the streaming, especiallly that i hope the poeple figured out that algorithms on spotify are pros in what they are doing. and you dont have the original files directly from the mastering studio to compare something against
I love your work! Very informative and inspiring and always learning something! Thnx for sharing your knowledge! One minor correction: ‘I didnt know’ is correct and ‘I didnt knew’ is not... I guess its a mistake the Dutch easily make... me myself included.... keep up your great work!
meters going into the red isn't a problem with converted files, it's just something that happens within software reading that converted sound, as long as your master isn't in the red and distorted then the converted file sound should be fine. also, this -14 lufs is nonsense! it's just a guideline, tracks at -12 or -13 lufs can be louder than -14, it all depends on the mix/instruments within. produce with your ears, not a graph!!
I do make my Tracks around -6 to -8 Lufs becourse i have taken samples of my favorite CDs of my genre and looked: How loud are they masterd? So yes -6 is loud but i found many tracks on Soundcloud that are even Louder than the -8Lufs. And to me it works the best in that Loudness range. Becourse i and othes can compare the Musik without having a to big drop in Loudness. In a Genre that is most common mixed by DJs (psytrance) and is Played LOUD mostly on PA Systems - it is not unimportant to have equal Loudness! It is often not understood what happen and often missunderstod by non DJs that have no practise playing Musik so loud in front of the Audience. Let me explain: DJs have not the same Volume Gain resource on their Mixers to make quieter Tracks loud. This will result in a problem most known in Missunderstanding saying - THAT TRACK is Cheap. Or Not as good as comon Standard of other artists in that Genre (psytrance). So the Dj cannot give more Loudness to the track but he can make it less loud in comparison. So a Mix that is loud and sounds great even if it is quieter is BETTER for Djs to mix. And if some one has to compare to names like Infected Mushrooms, Neelix, Astrix and so on ans he is MUCH less loud - the dj takes a other Track even if he like the track that is more quiet. And that does some influence on those portals too. If a perhaps Astrix would Stream to what ever - he would use the Well masterd Track in his common Loudness. Becourse no one care about if the streaming service makes the track 3lufs quieter becourse it will still Sound good in comparison to others. If a mix is less loud and has perhaps a greater Dynamic becourse of the less loud mastering - the mix will smash into Distortion or other problems. The biggest misstake is to Limit the Track to 0,0 without place for Intersampled overs that will happen to accour during internal processing. So it can be better to Master to -0,3 or -0,5 or in Spotify like he said to -2db to avoid Distortion or Clipping fragments. But thats only what i have experience..
CZcams is the same in terms of -14LUFS loudness normalisation. The one major difference to Spotify is that CZcams does not turn up soft material and does not apply a limiter. Because you upload to youtube directly and not via a distro (unless its youtube red) then you can keep your audio files at higher res than 44.1/16. CZcams always re-encodes all material at ingest.
@@julianknowles7450 they were..... Most people are releasing for streaming now. And services have lowered the ceiling of the loudness wars. It's a welcome change! I guess it you're still buying CD's.... Yeah. They'd still be really squashed, clipped and loud.
@@ramspencer5492 are you releasing music and working with pro MEs? Further, have you taken measurements of any music released in the past 5 years since streaming services became popular? The evidence is all there my friend. Masters are blisteringly loud stilll. Just download any track and measure it. What people don't get (unless they are releasing music and working with MEs) is that one master goes to all platforms. Yes, that means the majority of platforms that are not loudness managed. Streaming services are only part of the picture for a master. You cannot 'master for spotify' and ignore the hundreds of other platforms that the same master is distributed to. This simple fact seems to elude 99% of the internet.
@@julianknowles7450 hmmmm.... maybe some people are doing it that way. Nobody I know through. Everyone I know are doing it more like it's shown on your video. To each their own.... If you don't have more dynamics you get penalized, because your average loudness is what they base normalization on. Spotify, tidal, apple, youtube.... etc. Then afterwards your track ends up sounding DB's quieter than average. Anyone who hasn't adjusted to the main streaming platforms is behind the curve.
So making a different master for spotify isn’t advisable, but... What if you follow the spotify rules (-2dB TP) and add +2dB (normalize) to the master send to beatport? Especially for dance productions? Would that make sense?
Just master as usual, keeping Genre specific Dynamic Range in mind (8db PSR for example) and afterwards turn down your track to -14LUFS before uploading to spotify should do the trick, doesn't it?
greating from brazil. great content. i just have one question: so if spotify normalizes all the songs in an album as if it was only one big track, in order to keep the dynamic range in that album, when i'm mastering an album i should do it as well? i should put the entire thing in one LUFS and TP level? but in that case some tracks, individualy, won't suffer from spotify's loudness normalization if played on a playlist with other artists songs? because if i master the album as a whole i wont have the control over the individual tracks, right? what to do in that case?
None of this is relevant if you do not “Enable Audio Normalization” There will still be loss from Spotify conversion but it does not seem logical to master your level for an option that can be disabled. Everyone that is listening without audio normalization will hear the actual mastered volume adding up to a couple db due to the conversion process which is why you should leave some true peak headroom in your .wav master to avoid clipping after conversion to lossy codecs. In the latest versions of Ozone you can use Codec preview to view your level changes and even solo the artifacts or “loss” in AAC format at different bit rates. So if you upload a -14 LUFS master it will sound really quiet and weak compared to a -8 LUFS rock mix (or -3 LUFS EDM mix 😬) when Audio Normalization is off and that is never ok. It’s better to take the penalty and have it turned down for those who prefer to enable audio normalization and never have the possibility of anyone hearing a quiet version of your track. The loudness war is not over yet. Trust me I can’t wait for it to be. 🤘🏼 P.S.- Somebody should do a video about this 😉
Exactly this. Most videos on youtube about the 'best level for spotify' completely miss this point, as they ignore the fact that you do not submit a separate master to spotify than the download platforms. When you really understand mastering and digital distribution, you realise that this 'master to -14LUFS' thing is a major misunderstanding of what actually happens on platforms and with distribution. I wish this simple fact was mentioned in these videos. Disappointingly it is always avoided. Meanwhile, mastering engineers all master between -11 and -6LUFS. They are not stupid.
I'm confused. On the Loudness Penalty site, should we currently be mastering to Spotify or Spotify Legacy? Their numbers are quite different when you test a master. Often if you hit a perfect zero on Spotify, it will say it needs to decrease 1-2db on Spotify Legacy
guys I need help. I'm really tired to print automations with the mouse and I'm looking for a fader controller. I'm in a small room and I don't have a lot of space. I've seen scheps uses the fader port. but I would like to use it also as controller for volume/esperssion/vibrato with the sample libraries. I'm on a MacBook pro i5 with 16gb , I use logic pro. please help
Here's a question I haven't seen an answer for yet: If you are True Peak limiting at -1 or -2 dB and you still have some minor intersample peaks over those values, is that ok? or should you squash them with another limiter?
The -2 to -1dB headroom of truepeaks is to make room for the lossy conversions to "mess things up" a little bit so after conversion and back to WAV you'll have a ~-0.5 truepeak headroom, and that is the output audio of the consumer.
Big thanks to Ridge for sending me this wallet and supporting the channel! Here’s the site if you want to check them out! > ridge.com/WHITESEA
I have a song that with -1.0db true pick has 3min -14.0LUFS and 1 last minute -7.5LUFS. What should I do? Let it like this?
So, they changed the system already and the link below to the Spotify page doesn't work anymore just a week after this video? Am I right? Loved your vid tho...
I still use the 80/20 rule. 80% of my listeners can't tell and 20% don't care.
Hahahahaha
Pareto approved :)
😅 Ain’t that the truth.
Shouldn’t you care?
@@jenyahp2828 no
Spotify hi-fi is launching this year, would be great with a follow up on that.
well...
@@casfoust 🤣
Something else to consider, is that Spotify users can also just turn off the “Loudness Normalization” option. Fully disable it.
I tested a few hip hop tracks (popular releases and some underground stuff). With LN on, they were the expected -14 LUFS and their True Peaks were down around -2.5 to -3 because of the loudness penalty.
However with LN disabled, these same tracks had integrated LUFT around -9 and True Peaks at 0.3 to 0.5. HUGE differences in loudness.
(You have to reload the song that’s cued for the disabled setting to take effect).
My concern here would be, for percentage of listeners who disabled the LN setting in Spotify, your track may sound very quiet coming off a list of tracts all at -9 LUFTS.
Your song is mastered at -14 (or -13) so you will incur a minimal penalty when LN is enabled. But if an end user turns off the penalty machine... well now you’ve self inflicted your own penalty to be the quietest track they hear all day.
If LN is disabled, they are not adjusting volumes. It is what it is at that point.
Commercial releases are all up at -9 LUFT (likely louder for really heavy stuff).
They all still sound good when the LN turns them down.
I think it might be a good ideal to disable LN... take a bunch of readings from artist you respect to reference, in a similar genre, average those readings and submit your masters at the levels that seem to be working for them. Accepting that your volume WILL be turned down for the majority of listeners with LN enabled. At the same time protecting you loudness levels from those who turn it off.
If it sounds good at -9 LUFT it should sound just as good to the end listener if they’ve cranked the volume, or turned it down halfway on their headphones. Essentially, that is all the loudness penalty is doing.
Can't wait for CZcams investigation as well. Thanks for this one. Good to know that it is better delivering at 41k.
Converting FLAC to WAV is *not* a destructive process! You can do that a million times (FLAC -> WAV -> FLAC -> ...) and still get the original file in the end. So that concern is pretty baseless.
The same goes for Apple Lossless btw. And yes, FLAC also supports higher bitrates than 16bit, and also higher frequenzy settings than 44100.
even though this obviously has to be true somehow in my heart i don't believe it lol
yes, Spotify preferring FLAC over WAV here you should just probably read "easier" as "cheaper"(infrastructure wise) in this regard
@@dextrodemon So you don't use zip either? Because that's conceptually exactly the same.
You can do an md5 checksum of a wav, then flac/wav it 10 times and the md5 of the wav will stay the same. That's how accurate it is.
Spotify needs to let us upload the same song and several lufs and see what sounds best after their algos.
When you listen to Spotify with the loudness normalization turned off, you'll find, that not a single professional track is mastered at -14 LUFS. I made the mistake once to master a track at -14. Now, when i listen to it (loundess normalization turned off) it sounds crappy next to all the other tracks, just because of the loudness difference. So in my experience right now it is not advisable to stick to those spotify mastering guidelines. Maybe this will change in the future?
What are you're own experiences?
What level do you target?
@@fluctura most of the time I look at a couple of songs from the same genre, that I like and then target a similar level. The exact value changes. A Brooks / David Guetta Production is way louder than a fluffy Singer-Songwriter Production. So for me there is no ONE level to target. But none of the reference tracks are at -14 LUFS.
@@tobiaskeilmusic Thank you for the insight :) Good way to go I guess 👌
Same experience here...and last year i asked on fb how many of my friends have loudness normalization turned on...it was only 1/3 of them.
I like the idea of -14 Lufs, but as long as Loudnes normalization is just an option, i prefere louder master coz i am listening on spotify with it turned of too.
i usualy give my clients the hint to use my -14Lufs and -1 true peak for uploading on youtube and my loud masters for spotify. For any other streaming plattform i dont give an advice
Cheers
I also mix tv and radio commercials. For Spotify the level should be -14LUFS. But when you listen to Spotify the commercials are always much louder than the music. Speciality their own crappy commercials....
I honestly think that, instead of worrying about how loud a track is, you worry about how dynamic the track is. Or instead, you are at least aware of what the LU range is. If a track is at -14 LUFs, and has a high loudness range, you're good! Same with tracks that are -7, -6, -5 LUFs, etc. Distortion or no distortion, if it sounds great, it sounds great!
Exactlyyy! Definitely going to try this in my next track!
-14 is ok for the 30% of platforms that actually have loudness management. As for the other 70%..... that no one ever mentions...
How much is good dynamic range to have? I remember i saw a video saying that 5-6db is okeish and above 6 is more than good, for a track mastered at -7-8 LUFS, but i'd like to hear some more opinions
@@koe4542 There isn't a right answer I don't think. might depend on your genre, context, what you're referencing maybe and what just sounds right to the music, and just like with LUFs, you should check with your ears too.
Put your music on Spotify- earn no money. Help make Spotify rich.
If Spotify ain't making you money, you're doing it wrong. Learn to do it so that a few million people listen to it five or ten times a day, and you'll have no complaints about the money.
@@m0j0b0ne Bullshit. If Benn Jordan can't make it work, it's broken.
@@WarrenPostma Who's Benn Jordan?
Put your music where, in order to be rich? Please fill us in so we can follow your example and make tons of money from our music ;-)
Spotify making music with ads and low quality audio where you onky earn small fee if you het crazy amount of views. Those business are bit corrupted indeed. Even Bandcamp is a better option or selling cd's or Vynil. Even Cassetes get still sold in the metal/punk scene
I would love the video on CZcams's codex 🙌
It would be really really helpful.
It helps to have someone walk you through it. Very informative. Good video topic!
Great video! And I totally sympathise with the fact that we always have to disclaim that we are not sponsored if we get enthusiastic about something on CZcams. It IS tiring and funnily enough, most people that are into gear and music production tend to be enthusiastic about what they do :)
When is the MBP video? :D
I was mixing my metal -10LUFS.And i have check it up.And my mixes was destroyed.I made them -14LUFS and sound is perfect.A good tip this time mate.Thank you.
Did you lower the true peak? Spotify adds a limiter at -1 db and the file type they convert clips over delivered true peak which is why the recommend -2 true peak.
It's not destroying something if it is just turned down. In what way was it 'destroyed'?
Disable normalization on Spotify and compare your mix to the latest Igorrr album. You'll see why you can't master quiet just yet.
Thank you for this. I recently learnt that -14 LUFS doesn't necessarily mean quieter. An example of this is Kenny Mason's Angelic Hoodrat. It has a great perceived loudness and lower LUFS than most loud songs. Glen Schick mastered. It sounds great to me.
Aaaah, very interesting! All your videos about mastering are a great help especially these days as I'm mastering an ambitious album I have mixed and I want to take care of it.
Aileé Zaga has a good video on the CZcams loudness normalization, and Marques Brownlee has one on the CZcams compression (he does talk about the audio as well as video).
But of course, I would be interested in your thoughts as well! This video was very helpful, and honestly much more interesting than I expected!
I realize that as I’m writing this (Dec 2022) this episode is now a year old, but I still find it to be very informative, and very pertinent.
Thanks for taking the time to clarify, and to cut through the confusion, Vytse.
While I was already aware of Spotify’s requirement of -1dB true peak for -14 LUFS, I did NOT know about their requirement for a true peak of -2db for LUFS that are hotter than -14db.
And, I absolutely agree with you about mastering to the -14db LUFS “target” that Spotify prefers…
Like yourself, I would much rather deliver audio that was a bit hotter than -14db LUFS, and have them “penalize” me by turning the volume down…as opposed to delivering something shy of -14db, and leaving it to Spotify to make the volume louder, as increasing the volume would likely involve the use of additional limiting, and THAT has the potential (probability) of introducing distortion.
And, considering the massive amount of content that Spotify receives (even in one day), it’s safe to assume that the limiting would be an automated process, (a “bot”) and not monitored and controlled by an actual mastering engineer, (or anyone human) who would understand the process, and know to take precautions to avoid it (along with any other possible wizzly artifacts that are inherent in lossy formats) which could audibly alter the fidelity of the original master.
Anyhooo…
Great video. 😊
I find it interesting that I watch this channel for, among other things, learning different mixing techniques and the video is interrupted my an ad that states "if you're watching this video to learn how to mix, it won't help". I wonder how many content providers are having ads contradict their content.
I have normalization turned off in Spotify. 100% of the music I listen being new or old is mastered loud. As long as normalization can be turned off, I wouldn't master to -14 lufs.
I personally like it when I don't need to adjust the volume for whole listening session and everything is nicely on the same loudness. On other hand I don't like what Apple Music does with its normalization.
Most people don't change the normalization settings.
@@ramspencer5492 but when they do, a master in the -14 lufs will sound very quiet and weak compared to most of the albums released to this day.
@@lachinelli yeah. No universal answer..... 🙃
I normally go to around -8 lufs even to -6 lufs in extreme loud areas of the song. It usually compares decently to most songs (which are damn loud) with normalisation off, however sounds much better than them when the normalisation is on. So a good middle ground ish. Plus the track will hold up to radio play !
FLAC is lossless, so the resulting audio is literally the same, bit by bit, as the WAV file.
It's like ZIPping a file: no losses.
True, but a conversion not needed is one less thing to go wrong.
@@skinnyhastrup4614 So you don't use zip either? The original can *also* be damaged, you know...
Also audio mastered for audio is also around -14LUFS! The most old fashioned analog format (vinyl) and most modern digital format (audio streaming), both killed loudness introduced by CD format! Now, isnt that something....
Since I don't do EDM or any heavy beat music, I use Amazon's spec which is -13 with -2 TP. That way the file works pretty much anywhere.
YES! This is the video I needed and wanted
This is great information, I was working on a album and wasnt too concerned with matching loudness as I thought streaming would handle it but it appears to not be so!
Thanks for this White Sea! Appreciate it a lot
Spotify changed to LUFS in November/December 2020.
And they have changed the normalisation settings so that Quiet and Normal level settings never apply a limiter. They will only raise the volume as far as the max TP value allows.
Which is a huge improvement of course.
Your video came out right when I had that issue in my head. Thanks for explanation and for the provided information!
Thanks for walking us through, didn't think there is so much behind that Spotfiy adjustments.
It's a great video and explanation. I've been working very hard to get my tracks to the correct loudness recently and this certainly helps. It's an interesting note on being slightly above the recommendations to avoid positive gain and the additional limiter. I try to avoid limiting as much as possible.
It did help me thanks so much ! More videos about this topic would be much appreciated!
Yes please on the You Tube Video idea!
Im totally wanting to see this kind of video about the youtube audio!!!!
im mainly using youtube as my music listening service and i would really like to know all about the weird stuff that their algorhythm is doing with the sound of the files that we upload to this site!!
CZcams mangles audio
This is still baffling to me. For starters, I just ordered and received a CD from a very universally heralded alternative rock band who’s album was released this previous summer of 2020. I just put the tracks up in SoundForge and they are loud - generally -8.7 dB lufs all the way up to -6.7db lufs, depending on the song. I fell in love with this album listening to it on Spotify Premium but with volume normalization turned off. I always keep normalization/volume match turned off.
This is not the only ‘new’ album like this. Almost every time I buy a new album (in recent years) which, in terms of genre are within the alt/indie arena of artists, the albums contain songs which sit between -10 and -7.
It is my understanding that until the FCC ever actually passes legislation to impose forced volume normalization to be permanently engaged on all streaming apps, mastering for loudness normalization is simply NOT generally being honored; only the slightest fraction of artists or mastering engineers are presenting masters at -14 dB lufs - of course, I suppose, they will be considered sages when and if the legislation ever kicks in but it has been sitting idle for over 5 years now.
Furthermore, maybe my ears are just ‘tuned for loud’ after all this time but I actually dig the way my mixes ‘feel’ when I get them glued in with bus compression, eq, saturation and limiters. When I apply these tools to my tastes, my mixes tend to naturally so sit around -10 to -9 lufs.
Wth? 🤷🏻♂️
Cd’s are going to be louder, a lot of engineers are making separate masters for each format, with cd generally being the loudest.
I didn’t even know until now that turning off normalization was an option, and I doubt many people do that. So keeping that in mind it’s probably still a good idea to aim for -14LUFS for streaming and save the loud loud mix for CD’s and downloads.
@@godofspacetime333 two sets of masters? I’ve inquired about the prospect of both, the “streaming master” and the CD master in a number of forums; a number of places where topics like this are underway and it has been virtually unanimous that it would be very unusual to run two sets of masters. It would, however, be a sweet way to pad the pockets of mastering engineers. Not trying to be too cheeky with that last comment but I have been asking around, looking under rocks being curious if multiple sets of masters are starting to happen. I’ve not seen it or heard concretely of instances of this yet. Though, it honestly makes sense. ...not to do masters for all various streaming apps, but two - physical media masters and streaming masters. Though, it does sound dubious....removing perceived loudness to knock a track down 3 or 4 lufs in various manners is very likely going to alter the balances and power of the mix - tonally ...and even effect perceived instrument balance relationships. 🤔 ..the rabbit hole is real.
Same. Commercial music just doesn’t sound contemporary when left more dynamic imo. People never talk about the fact that limiting not only kills your transients but also makes the vocal level louder. When I master at -14 and listen on headphones the drums smack but the vocal is not as up front.
@@maxmileski1248 yeah I would think they must, I mean a song mastered at -6LUFS being penalized down to -14LUFS must be pretty noticeable but idk. But as far physical formats, they have to. You can do whatever you want with a cd, make it as loud or dynamic or as bassy as you want, but that physically wouldn’t work on vinyl or cassettes. The grooves can only be so deep on a record, and cassette has a much higher noise floor and weird frequency response (plus noise reduction to take into account). As far as big studios/labels, maybe streaming is the one format that they decided not to make new masters for, but I’d be surprised about that, especially considering that’s where they’re making all their money now. Though it is kinda weird how, with all the information and interviews from mastering engineers on CZcams and stuff, you don’t hear much about providing different masters for different mediums..
@@godofspacetime333 I guess most Spotify listeners don't disable normalization, but as a music lover I always like to have control over the software I use to listen to music, so I do scan all the options when I install something. That's when I saw the normalization switch turned on and I instantly turned it off.
Again, you don't need to play with the gain fader in Pro-L 2 to try to get to a certain LUFS number, just use MLoudnessAnalyzer and it does it automatically. There's a lot of plugins that adjust the volume of your track automatically to reach a certain point in the LUFS meter, even Waves has one, but the one made by Melda is the best in my opinion; simple, straight to the point and works great.
pay attention that true-peak is not the peak. But the peak forming through peaks, during D/A conversion. There are plugins (also free) that are showing these, and limiters that are taking under control True Peaks, like the Pro-L2 you are using
This is new item to add to the mix chacking list
This is very interesting 🤨 thank you for this info! 🙌🏾 I agree, transcoding is the problematic part and nobody can avoid that. Many people commenting here about how loudness standards can be avoided/ignored but transcoding hot files can/will provide distortion. It’s digital audio. So going loud as possible in your submission seems foolish unless you want bit distortion. And bit distortion always seems to garble the clarity and diminish the stereo field. Seems to me (mathematically) a min of -11 LUFS while having 2db of headroom in the submission is ideal. Which would make the mastering close to a min or 9 RMS/LUFS before the peak headroom. I imagine if you’re doing a “single”, you could simply apply the transcoding yourself to simulate the affect and tailor the headroom for your submissions.
The issue with headroom is peak related, not average related, and therefore not loudness related. You can have a -9LUFs master with 1dB true peak headroom and you can have a -11LUFS master with the same 1dB true peak headroom. Granted, in many instances a mastering engineer will produce a CD master with 0.1db of peak headroom and will then just lower this by a fraction of a dB for the streaming and download master because its quicker. There are good tools now like Streamliner that allow you to audition the codec while mastering. This means in many cases you can push it to -0.5 or so with no issues. It's highly program and genre dependent.
@@julianknowles7450 I think auditioning the codec is the important part. Because a master with -9/-8 LUFS is more likely to experience distortion when converting. (Because they convert to the streaming codecs first before they loudness normalize) Best is to test it. Furthermore, best is to master it so it sounds good. But to your point, sending it out based on peak level is the way to go. Give the headroom it needs for the codec (or not lol)
My point about a min of -11 LUFS is because if it is below that level [and someone listens to Spotify “Loud” or other settings] Spotify will apply additional limiting to bring your track up to -11 (and that could be unflattering).
This was great! Thank you! A CZcams one would also be amazing. CZcams is very odd and has something else going in indeed.
I have being mastering at -2 true peak for a while now. I couldn't remember why.😂
Thanks for reminding me of the articles on spotify website.🤟
Thanks man.... it really helps , honestly.
Thanks for that, from all musicians!💙💙💙
Very nice content. Thank you for going through this and sharing these tips.
That's gonna put you in a very tight 'SPOT', financially as well !!!
Very insightful video, kudos!
I know this is over a year or so old but great video thanks! No ridge wallet anymore? 🤣
very useful info man, thanks alot for the insights
Thanks for the summary !
Thanks man! Super Helpful!
So basically cutting everything over 21kHz and mastering at -2,1 dBFS TP and around -10,9 iLUFS will end up with the file that doesn't get changed at all (not considering transcoding loss) on Spotify?
brickwall at 20Hz and at 20kHz more exactly.
@@claudianreyn4529 Yeah, but when cutting so exact, we would need to work with FFT to minimize the artifacts and thats really CPU intensive...
@@claudianreyn4529 Nyqust limit of 44.1 is 22.05khz.
Omg tree point tree woooh!!!
I LUFS this
Interessante informatie. Dank voor de video!
that was the best video I saw from you! Super informative. Thanks..
13:16 is why I keep the normalization setting off, it ruins songs, especially older music that wasn't sausaged. It helps to also compare your favorite track(s) with the setting off and on. Most of the tracks on the Global Charts playlist hit around 6-9 LUFS without normalization.
thanks!
You should do a snake oil on lurssen mastering plugin 👋👋😍
Great tips and tricks, thank you
FYI, they have since updated their system to a) use integrated LUFS and b) only apply the limiter when using the "Loud" normalization setting, which is not the default setting (hooray!). Much better now.
I've didn't know about the -2dB rule! Thank you!
Yeah we talked about the -14 LUF , I said it depends on the type of music you're making. Great video! Are you familiar with the Youlean Loudness Meter?
People/engineers need to chill about this whole "mastering for streaming" and "-14LUFS". Do a good sounding and, yeah, loud master and you are good to go. Just take a listen to all the commercial releases, nobody masters at -14Lufs, but rather -11 to -6.
There´s been a wonderful Google Talk from Andrew Scheps about that. Audio Quality in Streaming Media. But almost 10 years old so the algos won´t work like that now I think.
But still and for other reasons interesting. Concerning the whole topic.
I read a lot of comments of people that say that -14 is not that good.. but if you make your songs at -6lufs what about the db? are you using -1db or -2db?
Yes please make a video regarding CZcams also... All the best!
Hi man. Maybe a silly question, and maybe I missed it in a previous video, but what mic you are speaking in to? It sounds pretty good. So my curious mind wants to ask you this question ;)
thanx a lot
I personally always bring my masters loud (av. - 9 LUF), 48/24, - 1.3 dB TP for all platforms. As you say, I prefer my music turned down than compressed more; if someday streaming services decide to turn up their volume, I don't have to be worried since I'm already loud, therefore the only issue I have left is true peak and dynamic range 🤷♂️.
Same here. I av -9 sometimes -8 for some projects that are more aggressive w no issues.... When I started to mix my tracks at -14 they lost the cool natural compression that comes from a limiter pushing harder along w other processing..
dithering is something you have to deliver. They cannot add anything. They don't cut down bit depth so you have not to worry too much about
What will happen is the day Spotify and/or other platforms decide to change the LUFS "reference" to let say -12 or -10 then all those who have mastered at -14 will loose that competitive sound versus the louder ones. Also, when artists submit music to curators, their music is judged by people listening the WAV file without any normalization and these people listen to one WAV file after another without turning constantly their volume knob. Quiet masters are at risk of not being selected. I have made the test myself: the same song mastered at -14 LUFS and then at -9 LUFS. The -14 LUFS version of the song was rejected from all playlists and was qualified as "unfinished". The -9 LUFS version sent to the same curators was accepted in 5 playlists and 3 radio stations. This was the exact same sound. Just the gain what different. The loudness war has never ended and will never do. Somehow, despite of the normalization, loudness remains important, but with some balance with dynamics. This interesting experience that I describe here changed my perspective about mastering as many artists rely on the number of playlists selections of their music to judge the work of their engineers.
When you use this website (loudnesspenalty): Should I go for minus values or plus values? I mean should my song be penalised by plattforms?
Yes, it should be penalised a little bit
short answer: yes, you should aim to be turned down a little bit. Long answer : starting at 12:54 in the video
You should aim for a little bit of penalization because some streaming platforms such as CZcams will not turn it up if it is below -14 LUFS and therefore will sound weak compared to other tracks.
Currently learning how to ddp now in reaper i hate that my ep has breaks in it
Thank you so much!
Music Is LUFS Forever
But woudn‘t it be better to master to like 11 Lufs (if possible for the song of course), so that the song doesn‘t get crushed by spotify on the „loud“ setting?
Its definitely interesting to see and hear all this explained but at the end of the day i think different sounds at the consumers are much more due to different speakers and room acoustics than the last 2 dB processing during the streaming, especiallly that i hope the poeple figured out that algorithms on spotify are pros in what they are doing. and you dont have the original files directly from the mastering studio to compare something against
Do you put 2 limiter on master bus? (To not loose dynamics)
I love your work! Very informative and inspiring and always learning something! Thnx for sharing your knowledge! One minor correction: ‘I didnt know’ is correct and ‘I didnt knew’ is not... I guess its a mistake the Dutch easily make... me myself included.... keep up your great work!
Can’t wait for like Spotify hifi
meters going into the red isn't a problem with converted files, it's just something that happens within software reading that converted sound, as long as your master isn't in the red and distorted then the converted file sound should be fine.
also, this -14 lufs is nonsense! it's just a guideline, tracks at -12 or -13 lufs can be louder than -14, it all depends on the mix/instruments within. produce with your ears, not a graph!!
Nice one thank you 🙏 i use also for all the tracks the lufs free website too
Great video!🙏
New mic? What is it? Sound fine! Greets from Germany!
I do make my Tracks around -6 to -8 Lufs becourse i have taken samples of my favorite CDs of my genre and looked: How loud are they masterd? So yes -6 is loud but i found many tracks on Soundcloud that are even Louder than the -8Lufs. And to me it works the best in that Loudness range. Becourse i and othes can compare the Musik without having a to big drop in Loudness. In a Genre that is most common mixed by DJs (psytrance) and is Played LOUD mostly on PA Systems - it is not unimportant to have equal Loudness! It is often not understood what happen and often missunderstod by non DJs that have no practise playing Musik so loud in front of the Audience. Let me explain: DJs have not the same Volume Gain resource on their Mixers to make quieter Tracks loud. This will result in a problem most known in Missunderstanding saying - THAT TRACK is Cheap. Or Not as good as comon Standard of other artists in that Genre (psytrance). So the Dj cannot give more Loudness to the track but he can make it less loud in comparison. So a Mix that is loud and sounds great even if it is quieter is BETTER for Djs to mix. And if some one has to compare to names like Infected Mushrooms, Neelix, Astrix and so on ans he is MUCH less loud - the dj takes a other Track even if he like the track that is more quiet. And that does some influence on those portals too. If a perhaps Astrix would Stream to what ever - he would use the Well masterd Track in his common Loudness. Becourse no one care about if the streaming service makes the track 3lufs quieter becourse it will still Sound good in comparison to others. If a mix is less loud and has perhaps a greater Dynamic becourse of the less loud mastering - the mix will smash into Distortion or other problems. The biggest misstake is to Limit the Track to 0,0 without place for Intersampled overs that will happen to accour during internal processing. So it can be better to Master to -0,3 or -0,5 or in Spotify like he said to -2db to avoid Distortion or Clipping fragments. But thats only what i have experience..
+ for CZcams audio ✌🏽
CZcams is the same in terms of -14LUFS loudness normalisation. The one major difference to Spotify is that CZcams does not turn up soft material and does not apply a limiter. Because you upload to youtube directly and not via a distro (unless its youtube red) then you can keep your audio files at higher res than 44.1/16. CZcams always re-encodes all material at ingest.
Thanks. The good thing in all this is this is that the loudness war isn't killing out dynamics like it was. Was getting stupid.
You’re kidding , right? Masters are blisteringly loud. Way louder then they have ever been,
@@julianknowles7450 they were..... Most people are releasing for streaming now. And services have lowered the ceiling of the loudness wars. It's a welcome change! I guess it you're still buying CD's.... Yeah. They'd still be really squashed, clipped and loud.
@@ramspencer5492 are you releasing music and working with pro MEs? Further, have you taken measurements of any music released in the past 5 years since streaming services became popular? The evidence is all there my friend. Masters are blisteringly loud stilll. Just download any track and measure it. What people don't get (unless they are releasing music and working with MEs) is that one master goes to all platforms. Yes, that means the majority of platforms that are not loudness managed. Streaming services are only part of the picture for a master. You cannot 'master for spotify' and ignore the hundreds of other platforms that the same master is distributed to. This simple fact seems to elude 99% of the internet.
@@julianknowles7450 hmmmm.... maybe some people are doing it that way. Nobody I know through. Everyone I know are doing it more like it's shown on your video. To each their own.... If you don't have more dynamics you get penalized, because your average loudness is what they base normalization on. Spotify, tidal, apple, youtube.... etc. Then afterwards your track ends up sounding DB's quieter than average. Anyone who hasn't adjusted to the main streaming platforms is behind the curve.
@@julianknowles7450 I literally can't think of the last time anyone I know bought a CD. Maybe at a concert 10 years ago.
What about loudness levels when mastering for CD ?
Don't have a lufs meter so your saying keep my meter -1 or -2 basically avoid limiting and keep the sound old school. ?
So making a different master for spotify isn’t advisable, but... What if you follow the spotify rules (-2dB TP) and add +2dB (normalize) to the master send to beatport? Especially for dance productions? Would that make sense?
Just master as usual, keeping Genre specific Dynamic Range in mind (8db PSR for example) and afterwards turn down your track to -14LUFS before uploading to spotify should do the trick, doesn't it?
greating from brazil. great content. i just have one question: so if spotify normalizes all the songs in an album as if it was only one big track, in order to keep the dynamic range in that album, when i'm mastering an album i should do it as well? i should put the entire thing in one LUFS and TP level? but in that case some tracks, individualy, won't suffer from spotify's loudness normalization if played on a playlist with other artists songs? because if i master the album as a whole i wont have the control over the individual tracks, right? what to do in that case?
None of this is relevant if you do not “Enable Audio Normalization”
There will still be loss from Spotify conversion but it does not seem logical to master your level for an option that can be disabled.
Everyone that is listening without audio normalization will hear the actual mastered volume adding up to a couple db due to the conversion process which is why you should leave some true peak headroom in your .wav master to avoid clipping after conversion to lossy codecs. In the latest versions of Ozone you can use Codec preview to view your level changes and even solo the artifacts or “loss” in AAC format at different bit rates. So if you upload a -14 LUFS master it will sound really quiet and weak compared to a -8 LUFS rock mix (or -3 LUFS EDM mix 😬) when Audio Normalization is off and that is never ok. It’s better to take the penalty and have it turned down for those who prefer to enable audio normalization and never have the possibility of anyone hearing a quiet version of your track. The loudness war is not over yet. Trust me I can’t wait for it to be. 🤘🏼
P.S.- Somebody should do a video about this 😉
Exactly this. Most videos on youtube about the 'best level for spotify' completely miss this point, as they ignore the fact that you do not submit a separate master to spotify than the download platforms. When you really understand mastering and digital distribution, you realise that this 'master to -14LUFS' thing is a major misunderstanding of what actually happens on platforms and with distribution. I wish this simple fact was mentioned in these videos. Disappointingly it is always avoided. Meanwhile, mastering engineers all master between -11 and -6LUFS. They are not stupid.
Just produced a Drum & Bass track. -6/8 dB RMS. Not gonna change that for Spotify! 😂
I'm confused. On the Loudness Penalty site, should we currently be mastering to Spotify or Spotify Legacy? Their numbers are quite different when you test a master. Often if you hit a perfect zero on Spotify, it will say it needs to decrease 1-2db on Spotify Legacy
Thanks for this. Just to be clear, if you master at -14 lufs or above then you must bring your master bus down by 2dB? So then you lose 2 lufs right?
What happens if I upload music in 432Hz to Spotify, will they change it to 440Hz?
guys I need help. I'm really tired to print automations with the mouse and I'm looking for a fader controller. I'm in a small room and I don't have a lot of space. I've seen scheps uses the fader port. but I would like to use it also as controller for volume/esperssion/vibrato with the sample libraries. I'm on a MacBook pro i5 with 16gb , I use logic pro. please help
Here's a question I haven't seen an answer for yet:
If you are True Peak limiting at -1 or -2 dB and you still have some minor intersample peaks over those values, is that ok? or should you squash them with another limiter?
The -2 to -1dB headroom of truepeaks is to make room for the lossy conversions to "mess things up" a little bit so after conversion and back to WAV you'll have a ~-0.5 truepeak headroom, and that is the output audio of the consumer.
So is it recommended to have true peak at -2 or -1db for Spotify?
and for youtube?