So, I was just looking for a ligature. Some years ago I upgraded from an old stock ligature to a trash bg ligatures (the one with the plastic "plate"). Then my professor told me (and I now agree) that that was a trash ligature. So I went and bought a upper level leather bg, the one with the red thread, that was 100 times better than my other ligature. Now (4/5 years from buying the bg ligature) I got a new clarinet and it came with a (buffet) stock ligature (The clarinet is new). Now, 3 days ago (about 8/9 months from buying the instrument) I saw some videos (yours and from other users) that talked about different kinds of ligatures including leather (bg, vandoren, rovner) and seeing also your videos I started really looking into how ligature affect how i play. SO, I decided to take the buffet stock ligature and sure enough, it was SO much easier and responsive than the bg ligature (maybe not the best intonation and a different sound) but I was shocked. Sure the bg leather ligature has that "dark" sound, contained sound, but sure enough I was actually biting more on the bg ligature. So I started thinking on another upgrade of my ligature. Based on my current budget, I really don't know what to chose: the vandoren optimum or the rovner versa (knowing what those types of leather ligatures do). They cost (in my country) the same (about 60/70€). What, based on your experience, would you chose, what are the characteristics of those and why would you chose that one between the 2. And if there is a same price or lower cost ligature that you think could be even better (I use a M30 and M30lire, 3.5 V12 thinking to change to a 3.5+) . Thx a lot :)
I definitely prefer the Vandoren Optimum to the Rovner Versa! This is just personal preference, but I really like the response of a good metal ligature. My favorite ligature of all time is the Bonade ligature, though they vary so many (both with different ages, but even today...). I'd contact a few places to see if you could try from several. I just picked from several Bonade ligatures sent to me by Taplain-Weir. I picked the best one and sent the rest back! I really recommend this! M30's are great medium mouthpieces with longer facings. There's not much like them on the market. I bet you'd love old James Pyne mouthpieces! Just a thought. Thank you so much for your kind words! If you want to talk more, email me at dalemfedele@gmail.com
i like the orig mk 3 for clarinet also and still have mine from early 80,s. the very early light is one powerfull ligature! agree perfect for lead or pop playing. mine has the proto type screw and have never see another till yours. would love to find an orig eddie daniels . was blown away by one but they were expensive and couldnt afford at the time. you just cant find these used today
This might cause some controversy, but I've never liked any of the Rovners, with the Star Series being the only exception. The Star Series is the only one that has given me any type of response that I find satisfying, and the fact that it's the best looking for me is a huge bonus
On your Tenor Sax, you tried the compass with the knob on the reed? Because, I've seen in videos they put It with the knob on top of the mouthpiece, which I think is wrong. Your impression is with the knob on the reed?
there is a relative new rovner out called the star. you might want to try this one . its amazing on sax how it is for clarinet i dont know but it allows you to use the lig in bars on the reed end or reverse like an inverted lig. you being the lig junky might like to play with this one. first truly reversable rovner .
Hello Dale! Your video has inspired me to try Versa today, and that’s what I thought about. I remember your video of tryout of different screws on a Bonade ligature. What if Versa can be upgraded with a different, custom-made metal plate inside? Made of brass, or solid silver. Even mass can be slightly increased. What do you think, will changing a plate make Versa better? Same can be made for Optimum ligature, however it’s tricky to make a custom plate for Optimum because of it’s shape but I think possible.
Allow me to please clarify...I still think the modern Rovner dark & light ligatures are good!! They are great ligatures that are better than many that are HUNDREDS of $$ more expensive! I just feel some of these older ones are more resonant and provide better projection and response in a principal clarinet setting. When I talk about the "new" Rovners, I mean all of the new designs that, in my opinion, aren't as great as the original, simple design.
I have tried the modern Rovner Dark, Light and Versa ligatures. On soprano and alto sax at least, I have found the light ligature to be too resistant, especially on soprano and I really don't like it. On some mouthpieces I found the dark made low notes harder to get out but on other mouthpieces I like it if I want darker sound. On all Versa ligatures I have tried, after a short while of using them on any mouthpiece, I can't get the metal plate to stay in its cradle . The plate tends to fall out when loosening or tightening the ligature, unless the ligature is fully tightened on the mouthpiece with a reed attached and that is kind of annoying. I like the sound I get with it and it is a bit resistant, but not with the plate falling out and it happens with both the thicker and thinner plates.
I happen to be trying It this time. It's ok but I feel a silver plated Bonade definitely will be better for me, so I'll probably get one. I have a gold one non-inverted which is good but a tad heavy, I think I'd like silver plated more.. Optimum is easier response than Bonade. I recommend trying more than one Optimums because they vary, even being identical, just like all ligatures.
Tensile strength is unrelated to density, rigidity and flexibility. A nylon rope has lots of tensile strength but no rigidity. The flexible ligatures might well have more tensile strength than the stiff ones. Distinguishing these ligatures by their flexibility or rigidity is technically correct. The characteristic of how a material bends and stretches is called its modulus, Youngs modulus, or modulus of elasticity. Often strong things are also stiff so we conflate the two, but a rope is a good example of something that is not. Carbon fiber is stronger than steel but lighter. Hardness and stiffness are unrelated too. How do you ever decide what instrument configuration to play?
Thank you so much for this!!! I apologize for spreading misinformation. It's just something I've noticed. The ligs that "squish" are no good, and this might be also why I like certain metals more than others (like the German silver maillechort alloy ligatures from the 1940's and earlier?). For most gigs, I've been on a 1.00/36 lay mpc for the last 15 years. And a front facing Bonade lig, pretty much the same reeds, almost the same barrel design and R13's with most of the same qualities. I really haven't changed my setup very much...just, in my opinion, switched to more resonant versions of the same designs (Henri Chedevilles rather than the M13 copy, a 1968 R13 that feels similar to my 2005, etc.). Again for some contexts it's different, of course. I've just noticed that all of the Rovners I like, that give a nice crisp staccato, have this in common.
Sorry one more thing to say. When I speak about density here, I mean a description of the sound. Now, I do find that more dense wood does lead to a more dense sound (sometimes) but I know that it's subjective to my ear, and there is probably a false equivalence. Most of what I do in selecting equipment is mainly just being an "energy watchdog" of what allows for the most natural expression (least detriment to my body) while also getting the most projection to hopefully cut through the very very loud orchestras I play principal with. They aren't all as sensitive as the Boston Symphony, and the halls are certainly nothing like Symphony Hall!
@@DaleFedele On your Tenor Sax, you tried It with the knob on the reed? Because, I've seen in videos they put It with the knob on top of the mouthpiece, which I think is wrong. Your impression is with the knob on the reed?
Rovners are kind of a mystery, on saxophone at least I’ve had several light ligs that worked really well on certain mpcs. And hated them on other mpcs.
Yes! "And hated them on other mpcs." It's all about having it all work together...as you well know! That's why finding the "objective good" of any one piece of the instrument is elusive. Elusive...yet, still worth the search!
@@DaleFedele totally agree! I like your ligature videos as I think to myself, “someone else who is as particular about ligatures!”. I appreciate the nuance you present in discussing ligs! I think it’s important to keep an open mind when matching reed/mpc/ligature. I’ve also had similar thoughts about the platinum (and vd optimum to an extent), well balanced and solid but limiting and not as resonant or flexible to me. I’ve also got the first Gen Eddie Daniels but find it a bit hollow sounding.
@@DaleFedele I tend to like either a silver Bay, VD m/o or Eddie Daniels on clarinet; on alto I actually AM using a light rovner, same on tenor! During the pandemic, I was teaching out of my 4 x 6 whisper room for zoom lessons and at low volumes I was experimenting using a variety of other ligs depending on what reeds I was trying; rovner versa x, versa, Theo Wanne enlightened. But I gravitated back to the light rovner on alto and tenor as they offer the most neutral and resonant response with a low fuss factor. I have an old rovner light for clarinet I inherited from a retired local player that I’m going to dig out and see how it compares!
Epic clarinet man 🔥
Thanks, Tony!!!
I need to make it to NY soon and try that bass. Are you keeping it?
So, I was just looking for a ligature. Some years ago I upgraded from an old stock ligature to a trash bg ligatures (the one with the plastic "plate"). Then my professor told me (and I now agree) that that was a trash ligature. So I went and bought a upper level leather bg, the one with the red thread, that was 100 times better than my other ligature. Now (4/5 years from buying the bg ligature) I got a new clarinet and it came with a (buffet) stock ligature (The clarinet is new). Now, 3 days ago (about 8/9 months from buying the instrument) I saw some videos (yours and from other users) that talked about different kinds of ligatures including leather (bg, vandoren, rovner) and seeing also your videos I started really looking into how ligature affect how i play. SO, I decided to take the buffet stock ligature and sure enough, it was SO much easier and responsive than the bg ligature (maybe not the best intonation and a different sound) but I was shocked. Sure the bg leather ligature has that "dark" sound, contained sound, but sure enough I was actually biting more on the bg ligature. So I started thinking on another upgrade of my ligature. Based on my current budget, I really don't know what to chose: the vandoren optimum or the rovner versa (knowing what those types of leather ligatures do). They cost (in my country) the same (about 60/70€). What, based on your experience, would you chose, what are the characteristics of those and why would you chose that one between the 2. And if there is a same price or lower cost ligature that you think could be even better (I use a M30 and M30lire, 3.5 V12 thinking to change to a 3.5+) . Thx a lot :)
I definitely prefer the Vandoren Optimum to the Rovner Versa! This is just personal preference, but I really like the response of a good metal ligature. My favorite ligature of all time is the Bonade ligature, though they vary so many (both with different ages, but even today...). I'd contact a few places to see if you could try from several. I just picked from several Bonade ligatures sent to me by Taplain-Weir. I picked the best one and sent the rest back! I really recommend this!
M30's are great medium mouthpieces with longer facings. There's not much like them on the market. I bet you'd love old James Pyne mouthpieces! Just a thought. Thank you so much for your kind words! If you want to talk more, email me at dalemfedele@gmail.com
@@DaleFedele cool thx a lot :) sent you an email at your email address
i like the orig mk 3 for clarinet also and still have mine from early 80,s. the very early light is one powerfull ligature! agree perfect for lead or pop playing. mine has the proto type screw and have never see another till yours. would love to find an orig eddie daniels . was blown away by one but they were expensive and couldnt afford at the time. you just cant find these used today
This might cause some controversy, but I've never liked any of the Rovners, with the Star Series being the only exception. The Star Series is the only one that has given me any type of response that I find satisfying, and the fact that it's the best looking for me is a huge bonus
On your Tenor Sax, you tried the compass with the knob on the reed? Because, I've seen in videos they put It with the knob on top of the mouthpiece, which I think is wrong. Your impression is with the knob on the reed?
there is a relative new rovner out called the star. you might want to try this one . its amazing on sax how it is for clarinet i dont know but it allows you to use the lig in bars on the reed end or reverse like an inverted lig. you being the lig junky might like to play with this one. first truly reversable rovner .
Hello Dale! Your video has inspired me to try Versa today, and that’s what I thought about. I remember your video of tryout of different screws on a Bonade ligature. What if Versa can be upgraded with a different, custom-made metal plate inside? Made of brass, or solid silver. Even mass can be slightly increased. What do you think, will changing a plate make Versa better? Same can be made for Optimum ligature, however it’s tricky to make a custom plate for Optimum because of it’s shape but I think possible.
I've actually tried this!!! I'll make a video on this soon!
@@DaleFedele That's cool, will wait for it!
Allow me to please clarify...I still think the modern Rovner dark & light ligatures are good!! They are great ligatures that are better than many that are HUNDREDS of $$ more expensive! I just feel some of these older ones are more resonant and provide better projection and response in a principal clarinet setting.
When I talk about the "new" Rovners, I mean all of the new designs that, in my opinion, aren't as great as the original, simple design.
You should try the Rovner gold Platinum PG-1R model, It's better than the current Platinum.
I have tried the modern Rovner Dark, Light and Versa ligatures. On soprano and alto sax at least, I have found the light ligature to be too resistant, especially on soprano and I really don't like it. On some mouthpieces I found the dark made low notes harder to get out but on other mouthpieces I like it if I want darker sound. On all Versa ligatures I have tried, after a short while of using them on any mouthpiece, I can't get the metal plate to stay in its cradle . The plate tends to fall out when loosening or tightening the ligature, unless the ligature is fully tightened on the mouthpiece with a reed attached and that is kind of annoying. I like the sound I get with it and it is a bit resistant, but not with the plate falling out and it happens with both the thicker and thinner plates.
That's something I've noticed...with some of the earliest Rovner ligs I've tried on saxophones, low note response is far improved!!
You tried the compass with the knob on the reed?
what do you think of the vandoren optimum?
I happen to be trying It this time. It's ok but I feel a silver plated Bonade definitely will be better for me, so I'll probably get one. I have a gold one non-inverted which is good but a tad heavy, I think I'd like silver plated more.. Optimum is easier response than Bonade. I recommend trying more than one Optimums because they vary, even being identical, just like all ligatures.
You didn't try the Compass ligature on clarinet??
Tensile strength is unrelated to density, rigidity and flexibility. A nylon rope has lots of tensile strength but no rigidity. The flexible ligatures might well have more tensile strength than the stiff ones. Distinguishing these ligatures by their flexibility or rigidity is technically correct.
The characteristic of how a material bends and stretches is called its modulus, Youngs modulus, or modulus of elasticity. Often strong things are also stiff so we conflate the two, but a rope is a good example of something that is not. Carbon fiber is stronger than steel but lighter. Hardness and stiffness are unrelated too.
How do you ever decide what instrument configuration to play?
Thank you so much for this!!! I apologize for spreading misinformation. It's just something I've noticed. The ligs that "squish" are no good, and this might be also why I like certain metals more than others (like the German silver maillechort alloy ligatures from the 1940's and earlier?).
For most gigs, I've been on a 1.00/36 lay mpc for the last 15 years. And a front facing Bonade lig, pretty much the same reeds, almost the same barrel design and R13's with most of the same qualities. I really haven't changed my setup very much...just, in my opinion, switched to more resonant versions of the same designs (Henri Chedevilles rather than the M13 copy, a 1968 R13 that feels similar to my 2005, etc.). Again for some contexts it's different, of course.
I've just noticed that all of the Rovners I like, that give a nice crisp staccato, have this in common.
Sorry one more thing to say. When I speak about density here, I mean a description of the sound. Now, I do find that more dense wood does lead to a more dense sound (sometimes) but I know that it's subjective to my ear, and there is probably a false equivalence. Most of what I do in selecting equipment is mainly just being an "energy watchdog" of what allows for the most natural expression (least detriment to my body) while also getting the most projection to hopefully cut through the very very loud orchestras I play principal with. They aren't all as sensitive as the Boston Symphony, and the halls are certainly nothing like Symphony Hall!
Certainly most clarinet players conflate density of reed cane with reed strength. That's a tough one to teach, would you agree?
What's your opinion about the compass ligature. I just ordered one..
I had one for tenor 🎷. It was surprisingly good!! For clarinet, I'd worry the many higher register tones would be too "wide" with not enough top.
@@DaleFedele On your Tenor Sax, you tried It with the knob on the reed? Because, I've seen in videos they put It with the knob on top of the mouthpiece, which I think is wrong. Your impression is with the knob on the reed?
Rovners are kind of a mystery, on saxophone at least I’ve had several light ligs that worked really well on certain mpcs. And hated them on other mpcs.
Yes! "And hated them on other mpcs." It's all about having it all work together...as you well know! That's why finding the "objective good" of any one piece of the instrument is elusive. Elusive...yet, still worth the search!
@@DaleFedele totally agree! I like your ligature videos as I think to myself, “someone else who is as particular about ligatures!”. I appreciate the nuance you present in discussing ligs! I think it’s important to keep an open mind when matching reed/mpc/ligature. I’ve also had similar thoughts about the platinum (and vd optimum to an extent), well balanced and solid but limiting and not as resonant or flexible to me. I’ve also got the first Gen Eddie Daniels but find it a bit hollow sounding.
@@claypufahl6074 What is your preferred lig on each horn? At least with your favorite mouthpiece for each!
@@DaleFedele I tend to like either a silver Bay, VD m/o or Eddie Daniels on clarinet; on alto I actually AM using a light rovner, same on tenor! During the pandemic, I was teaching out of my 4 x 6 whisper room for zoom lessons and at low volumes I was experimenting using a variety of other ligs depending on what reeds I was trying; rovner versa x, versa, Theo Wanne enlightened. But I gravitated back to the light rovner on alto and tenor as they offer the most neutral and resonant response with a low fuss factor. I have an old rovner light for clarinet I inherited from a retired local player that I’m going to dig out and see how it compares!
Phil Rovner is good friend, and he pronounces his name 'Row-vner'.
Thank you for the correction! I'll be sure to pronounce it correctly in the future!
Have you ever seen The Shining, Doctor Sleep and Silent Hill movies?
The Shining might be my favorite movie of all time.
@@DaleFedele The three I mentioned are my personal favourites..
@@jimis3167 The other competition for my personal favorite movie of all time: 2001 and Dr. Strangelove.
@@DaleFedele Ok , tell me also, what's your opinion about the compass ligature. I just ordered one.. I think would be good..