Katara and the men who made her | Avatar Video Essay by Shain Slepian aka TimeCapsule
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2024
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I just wanted to jump in and address a few things that have come up in the comments section. I was starting to feel repetitive responding to everyone; I never realized that I would get so many comments on this video! 1) Thank you so much for all of the kind words including the thoughtful criticism that I have received on this video! I couldn't have come up with this script without the work of Sneezy Reviews video and the, shall we say, robust Tumblr presence in the ATLA critical community. This is still my favorite show in the world and these criticisms haven't changed that, but they have opened my mind a bit and I hope they have done the same for you. 2) While I mention the Zutara ship, this video is not about Zutara. Even mentioning Zuko's treatment of Katara was added to further the point I'm making about what Katara needs in a narrative sense, not that it was evidence that the two belonged together. I would have been elated if the show had ended with the whole Gaang remaining platonic friends, with Aang having let Katara go romantically and remaining her life-long best friend. In fact, as I say in the video, I find it somewhat belittling that so many people are referring to this as a continuation of a shipping war. This video is about the fact that it doesn't feel like just a shipping war, not to me. 3) I feel very silly, but I just gotta say this: I didn't realize how many people here were critical of the show The Dragon Prince. While I'm absolutely thrilled that people are talking about that show and everyone has every right to express their opinion, my next series is going to be about why I love that show 😅 I would just feel really dumb if I didn't lampshade here that nobody seems to like it lol 4) my pronouns are they/them. Misgendering comments will be deleted. Nothing personal, but thems the breaks lol, get it?
Even though I'm a dude I identify with Katara and see so much of myself in her
Great perspective, happy you shared it.
I never hated Katara but this made me appreciate her more still. And i do agree that Angs 'love' for her feelt more lika a shallow crush than anything.
Ehasz wrote Katara, Brike broke her with LoK. Also Ehasz advocated for an open ending to the relationships whereas Brike were deadset on Kataang
How did the legend of korra harm her character?
@@SupericeCap I think while it was offscrean, yeah as old granny she might be trusting korra and set in old age back to nurturing and healing. Plus even offscrean. Fair. Plus even if aang is neglecting due working a lot a bit, no one lets a bad word get about katara. Like she isnt there on screen much, but her impact is.
But it really, could have left open.
I want to know why the wroting for both the Dragon Prince and LoK seem so incredibly lacking comepared to AtLA. At least Korra has some excuses in the weird production issues, but Dragon Prince is puzzling to me
@SupericeCap Turned a strong active force of a character into someone who just played house for Aang and broke down after his death.
@jameswilliamson3210 Sometimes good writers lose their touch or they were just in an incredibly specific situation in their lives that drew out the best of their talents. It's why Koizumi can make two of the best Zelda stories back to back and then never craft a good plot again. Maybe someone like Ehasz needed the pressure of Nickelodeon or Brike to get good results, though that's speculation.
I should mention I've never actually watched Dragon Prince so I can't actually speak towards the quality of it. But the point is previously amazing writers can make huge duds or have only one or two good hits.
7:19 so the southern tribe is much less patriarchal than the northern one BUT
We don’t see in the show how stark the differences are, just that the north is more that way than the south. But what DO we see? Katara and the man who killed her mother were the last people Kaya ever saw. Katara was ***this close*** to witnessing her mother’s death. Regardless of how their society is built you CANNOT tell me that wouldn’t ****DEEPLY**** impact someone esp as a child.
21:38 Kataang always made sense to me (a lot in the same way Katniss and Peeta getting together does) but it was always boring as shit. Ngl. It’s fine. Half formulaic, half sense making. Funny that people who shit on Zutara bring up the age difference but they don’t with Kataang? What 14yo wants to be with a 12yo? Idek if I had 12 yo friends at 14. I don’t think I did. All my friends at 14 were 13-15yo.
what the difference its 2 years. I know I sound ignorant but really Id like an explanation on the difference in mental maturity of the two ages
@@Galvatronover so the younger you are the shorter major developmental stages are. So a 14yo (which would usually be in high school) is going to think/feel/act differently than a 12yo (a 6-7th grade) and same with a 16yo (10-11th grade). 14yo usually have more access to socialization with 16yo so people don’t normally see the difference irl as it’s just 1 or 2 grades apart and they might share extra classes together. But other than that yeah like…. It’s 2 years. While 12yo seemed like babies to me at 14 (very common experience) in the context of the show there isn’t a difference in age gap between Kataang and Zutara. But I have seen people be against Zutara and cite the age gap as one of the reasons. Which like… what?
Ummm who would bring up the age difference against Zutura but not Kataang?... lol It's brought up against Kataang for sure more than the other way around.
@@SebastianSeanCrow Agreed, When I was in school the 12 year old children had a completely different block, and then there was the block for seniors, from 14 to 17 years old you'd be considered in highschool, while 12 is first year of middle school. Literally, even schools keep 14 and 12 apart lol.
@@raec5426 I’ve never once seen age gap brought up with Kataang but I’ve seen it brought up a lot with Zutara. And like… in the context of the show neither one MATTERS?? But if you’re gonna bring up the age gap for the rival ship my point is like look at your ship too?? Cuz it’s the same thing
Excellent video! I'm a Cis het white man and I'll be the first to admit that we're as dense as the Ba Sing Se wall when it comes to subtler issues like these. While I did think the romance was a bit sloppy towards the end, I never thought about how it may have been painful for other people. If I had to take a guess, part of the hurt comes from the fact that this isn't just a show from 16 years ago, its a show of significantly higher quality, diversity, and cultural importance than its peers. So its failures are felt more so since not many other shows (kid or adult) are doing what ATOL did.
Thanks for commenting! I hope it didn't seem like an attack at all, we all have different perspectives based on the lives we've lived, and this is mine. Yes I think you're right - it was Avatar! Like, it was supposed to be cutting edge and different. There was this incredible representation of different kinds if girls and women, ranging from very feminine to more butch, disabled, light and dark skinned, kind and nurturing to selfish and cruel to simply confident and self-possessed. And Katara's more stereotypically feminine qualities were actually discussed rather than demonized and mocked by the text. I think we had high expectations of them and they just sort of let us down. Anyway, I appreciate the comment!
i had never thought of it this way and i think you summarized your perspective beautifully and poignantly. as a kid, i did always feel like something was off about the ending but i could never place it and i'm so glad you have! this video definitely makes me what to rewatch the show through your lens .
Thank you! What high praise, I'm so glad people are willing to engage with my thoughts about it.
I feel the exact same way. I started watching avatar back in 2020, I was between the ages of 11-12, and I immediately lached onto Katara. She began my favourite fictional character ever, she changed me in ways I cannot even explain, if she didn't exist I probably wouldn't have gotten over my internalised misogyny. I finished avatar within a month, which was the fastest I had ever watched a tv show. The ending left me feeling genuinely sick, something was wrong but I thought it was just me being silly. I decided to watch the legend of Korra and I genuinely cried. I couldn't stand what happened to Katara (or any of the leads tbh). Katara is such an amazing character but they really messed up her in all later iterations of the characters.
I can't imagine what watching it at the age I did in 2020, so thank you for this perspective. The world has changed a lot since I was a kid, and back then (even though many people could clearly see the confusion in the show's romantic arcs) it almost felt like a foregone conclusion that the hero would "get the girl." I think we were less encouraged to even empathize with girl characters, hence why so many people crap on Katara for doing things just as morally murky as other characters. So, of course Aang 'gets' Katara, how is that even a question? But it's really wonderful to read that you experienced that immediate sense of wrongness there - younger people are liking Katara more since they have more tools to empathize with her. Thanks for commenting!
@@timecapsule7842 Your welcome. Your video was very well put together and it was a great watch!
what do u mean what happenned to her? that she grew older and went back to her tribe to heal other warrirors and ppl? what?
@@serenitysubs933 As opposed to being a political agent in her own right. Her entire arc, I argue, is about moving away from her role as a healer, which she connects to pain and trauma. There is obviously nothing wrong with being a healer, but in her story, a good ending would have depicted her working on a broader scale, at least mostly.
@@serenitysubs933 Katara literally said she didn't want to heal and that she wanted to fight. In the comics, her moral compass was replaced with Aangs and she agreed with him on everything (even the idea of KILLING ZUKO ((also the comics are genuine dogwarter, at least the ones I read))). In the LOK, she doesn't get a statue like the rest of the main cast, her role is reduced to a healer, a label she previously denied, and she isn't even allowed to appear at her own grand daughters arrow ceremony thingy (it's been awhile since I watch the LOK.)
3:47 IVE never seen Toph that way BUT… her looking like typical practical but hot girl cop was def weird af to me. She’s like… sure canonically female but I 100% see where you’re coming from and there’s no way she’s anywhere near “normal girl gender” by any societal standards I know of.
I thought she was written that way because they were originally going to make her a man.
@@ThePrincessCH exactly
I don't know anybody who doesn't like Katara although Toph has always been my favorite. The Internet is weird. Honestly wish they had left all the romance out of the story as the main characters were too young. Also can't accept any canon that says that Katara didn't have a huge impact on the history of her world.
You'd be surprised, some people get ticked off, about how many times she mentions her mother
I've seen Katara haters...they really be comparing Her trauma with Zuko's and act as though he is going through more than her...
@@celeb-seventeen Why would that tick people off?
@@ThePrincessCH cause ppl like oppression Olympics and compare her suffering to her brothers and zuko
If katars didn't exist Tenzin wouldn't exist which means that the airbender kids wouldn't exist which means the new air nation would be completely gone cause Korra never would have learned airbending
Katara kissing Aang at the end is Bryke going "Well the hero's always gotta get the main girl." rather than actually caring about her character at that moment. At that moment she ceased being a character to them, and became a prize for Aang to win and be rewarded with. No matter what came before.
I think the hate for Katara has more to do with how there are few moments where we see her reflecting on the consequences of her actions. Like how she convinced Haru to use bending to save the old man. The show doesn't reveal the reason why Katara is the only Waterbender in her tribe until Book 3, but an audience member can assume that it's the same situation where they take you away. While she couldn't have known that the old man would turn him in, she reacted the same way in her attempt to rescue him: rushing in head first and instilling the will to do the morally correct course of action which is how Haru was in the situation to begin with. Another missed opportunity for reflection is how Bloodbending affects her views as a bender: Katara places a great deal of her cultural identity on being a bender, but there isn't an episode where she contemplates its darker aspects.
As far as I can tell, she's the only character of the main cast who doesn't have a moment to reflect and reevaluate her actions. Aang has had to reevaluate his role and responsibilities as the Avatar, Sokka has questioned his self-worth as a man and as a leader, Toph questions her need to be independent, the majority of Zuko's arc is dedicated to the realignment of his values, and even Azula gets a couple of moments to reflect on her mother's love for her. Katara's not necessarily in the wrong for her boldness, but in times of war, you're usually forced into positions you wouldn't make under normal circumstances. There's a skit in a show called "Horrible Histories" about a World War II housewife who's forced to resort to eating zoo animals because food was so scarce during that time and another one about a World War I soldier is forced to eat bread made from sawdust (ersatz bread) among other things. Katara is an idealist, but in a war zone, pragmatism is likely a more ideal character trait.
That has way more to do with the writing not giving her that time, in the same way that the writing didn’t fully develop Aang by giving him what he wanted at the end of the day versus having him work for a resolution that both honors his values and has him mature.
I’ve seen a lot of Katara hate mention her as constantly crying and bring up her mothers death, which Sneezy addresses.
@@anachavez3525 "The Painted Lady" was a Katara centered episode, and it's the episode where Katara's idealism interferes with Sokka's pragmatic plan, not to mention they were supposed to be on a tight deadline.
You have officially forced me to take a stand by pure logic and emotion. I am now Zutara for life!!??(Katara was always my favorite character )
my mom once told me that she wanted to be a teacher when she was a kid and that shit hurt. she never got to be a teacher due to getting married at 17 and then having 5 kids. as a non woman i will never experience that but it gave me a taste to what that kind of pain and disappointment it is it be a woman with dreams but to be stuck as a housewife behind a man. i never thought that hard about kataang especially given that i wasnt aware of what she had been written to become after the series. i was always a kataang hater however since to me it felt simply wrong and bad writting. looking back i should have seen this through a feminist gaze because the absolute misogyny that avatar is drenched in both in the story and in the writing now is imposible not to see. thanks for this video and this perspective.
Thank you so much for sharing that, my friend. It sucks, because they *did* create a fantastic female character with her own internal world and motivations, and they have this incredible diversity of women throughout the ATLA cast. They just couldn't go that last step forward - they couldn't imagine Katara wanting something that they didn't want for her. Blah, I'm starting all over again haha. Anyway, thank you so much for commenting!
@@timecapsule7842 do you have siblings?
@@cesarethesomnambulist. Me? Yeah, why?
@@timecapsule7842 because i thought your comment about katara saying sokka didnt love their mom as much as she did was kinda crazy. maybe its just the way i was raised but even if certain relationships with a parent are different and special i think it would be crazy to say that tbh. and i dont think sokka was in being condescending the way aang was just because sokka probably knows how she feels but i havent seen the episode in a bit that might jus be me 🤷🏽♀️
@@cesarethesomnambulist. Well, I don't think something needs to be true in the most literal sense of the word for it to communicate a deeper truth. I don't think Katara loved Kya more than Sokka did, but her death clearly had a far more profound effect on her. And yeah, my brother and I are often more harsh on each other than we would be to outsiders: we grew up together, we have more history than most people, so there's more allowance for emotion there than strict politeness. That's how I feel about it
When I first watched ATLA around 12 years old I always thought Kaatang was weird and thought Zutara made more sense. But even at that age I would rather Katara be single than be with Aang. That’s how weird I thought the ship was. And at the time I would say I thought this way because Aang treats Katara like his mother. But everything you said is spot on to what I felt when I first saw that ending.
I just think the issue with Aang and Katara's relationship is that the creators aren't that great with romance. One of them worked on "The Dragon Prince" and there are also mixed feelings regarding Callum and Rayla's relationship, but in this case it's the male protagonist who gets the short end of the stick. Callum ended with someone who was sent to kill the sibling that he cares for deeply and while he and Claudia were never official we get an episode where he can just contemplate over the fact that the girl he had feelings (who he has known for a much longer time than Rayla) betrayed him and he did seem deeply hurt at the end of that episode, so Callum's transition to Rayla is about equal to Katara's transition to Aang.
Its weird, they at least should have kept it open :(
Imagine she dates, i dont know harzu before aang. Would be way better for her. And him, growing up a bit.
The problem with zutara is that it had 6 whole episodes to grow
Enemies to Lovers is more interesting that friends to married. Also even the the BEST animated show couldn't do romance right so i expect nothing from LoK or The Dragon Prince.
@totalfree8740 I don't know about that. "Heaven Offical's Blessing" has some pretty sweet, wholesome moments between the protagonists and the way they present their opposing ideals while still being in sync is at least fun to watch. Not to mention how much they managed to sneak in despite China's strict censorship laws.
What irks me the most is they always try to discredit her, take away from her and compare her to others simply to say everyone is better than her. Decades of nonsense.
20:22 I never cared about Zutara and I always thought it was stupid and mean to shit on it but between my previous comments making me think about their canon relationship and this video I feel like I can truly understand it outside of red/blue lovers to enemies
13:26 so of the reasonable critiques I’ve seen of Zutara people talk about how it’s possible Zuko contributed to Katara’s trauma and that she wouldn’t be able to see him in that way. I disagree as the difference between romantic and platonic relationships is just the label and we see she and Zuko are able to overcome their differences and breaks of trust etc and become quite close. HOWEVER. People like Zukka over Zutara (it’s me I’m people) and I’ve seen others cite things such as “they’re the same age, in some ways two sides of the same coin, both lost their mom to the fire nation in some form, neither are responsible for the others trauma”.
I think it was really realistic to have Katara choose not to forgive the man who murdered her mother. It isn’t necessary to forgive someone who hurt you in order to move on and begin to heal. It was a very poignant message, and communicated to the audience that although Aang’s capability to forgive and his pacifism is a positive thing in the show, it isn’t fair of him to assume everyone should do the same. Everyone’s journey is different. Not everyone can, or should, act in kindness towards those who hurt them. Letting go can just mean deciding to move on with your life, even if you can’t forgive and forget. And it also very realistic to have Katara be angry. She’s grieving, and even many years on that pain can still sting. If the worse thing she does is hurl a mean comment towards her brother, because she’s in immense emotional pain, then yeah, I think that’s fair enough. Sokka certainly doesn’t hold it against her. Ultimately she realises killing her mother’s murderer won’t achieve anything. She doesn’t want blood on her hands, and causing someone pain won’t stop her from being in pain herself. But she needed to come to that conclusion on her own, not because of Aang’s needling. And although I liked the fact Zuko supported Katara through this journey, I do not see this as a reason to ship Zutara. Zuko doesn’t help Katara because he cares about Katara, (even though he does respect Katara.) Zuko helps Katara as a way to redeem himself and earn her trust. That’s his motivation. Not because they’re friends. Not out of the goodness of his heart. But because he feels guilty that the Fire Nation, his people, caused so much hurt and sees this as a way to assuage his guilit. It was an important episode because if the whole gang didn’t trust each other before the final fight they’d lose. But that’s all it was. Katara deciding she can forgive Zuko, because he was actively trying to be better and felt remorse for what he’d done, but that she couldn’t forgive a man who was willing to trade his own mother’s life so she didn’t kill him. I think Katara’s romance should have been open-ended. She’s 14. If Katara and Aang end up together, that should be years down the line. And I honestly think that although Katara and Zuko had chemistry, they would make a terrible couple long term. I just cannot see Katara moving to the Fire Nation to be with the Firelord. That’s not the journey she was on, and in my opinion it would sour Zuko’s redemption arc by giving him a romantic motivation to be good and unite the nations. It needed to be just about Zuko choosing his own destiny, and deciding who he wanted to be regardless of anyone else.
beautifully said!
Ever since i was a kid kataang never really felt right to me. Even though it’s hinted at throughout the series it goes directly against katara’s character. It’s not impossible for her and aang to have fallen for each other later in life but it always seemed very obvious to me that katara thought of aang more like a little brother than a love interest. While zuko and katara were actually forced to grow together and learn to trust each other and overcome obstacles in their relationship it always felt more correct to me. Also who doesn’t love a classic enemies to lovers.
I love Katara! She’s my favorite character in the show and while she does have haters she also has an ocean on love and support from fans as well. Look no further than CZcams to find essays on how well written Katara and Toph are.
6:12 Can I just say thank you for perfectly articulating my thoughts on that scene? It always grinds my gears to see people dismiss any truth Katara’s words might hold because she said them in anger. She has every right to snap at Sokka because he IS trying to get her to back down and is completely unaware of the fact that Katara’s feelings and experiences have been far different from his.
Just because they lost the same mother doesn’t mean that Katara has to deal with her trauma exactly as he does. Nobody gets to dictate how she grieves and I will always defend her for that scene
I fucking love every single character she’s amazing she taught me how to be a good friend and a loving person
The most hate Katara gets is for her necklace-touch-"mother" habit. That always get me so riled up. Anyone who makes fun of her for that needs to watch your video because apparently they never even considered looking into her character even a tiny bit.
Of course she is going to mourn the death of her mother?! She was 14, feels guilty because of it and it changed her life drastically?!
It's probably been a while since I've seen Avatar to the point that I even forgot (or repressed the memory?)
about the show ending with Katara & Aang kissing, happily ever after.
It's just such a blunt boy/hero gets girl trope, 24:04 forced/arranged marriage is such a fitting metaphor. There is simply a dissonance in the character portrayal throughout the whole show and this final decision.
Katara & Zuko also subjectively felt years older and simply way more equal in their maturity than the can be childish other characters. Picturing Katara & Aang years later in some imaginery social interaction as a couple, Aang will be the loud, attention drawing partner due to his outgoing demeaner and when some acquaintances will talk about them, they'll say things like 'Aang and his girlfrind. The avatar and his better half'.
Zuko on the other hand probably totally fine to stand behind a strong, empowered woman as a partner. Maybe even favors it because it rids him of all that social interaction he does not like and care about.
I'm fine with Aang having a crush on Katara but it always felt like some pubertal boys in school simping for some girls in senior year, to overstate this a little bit.
I think the issue with Aang and Katara's relationship is less a misogyny issue and more an issue a writing issue. One of the creators of the "Avatar" franchise worked on "The Dragon Prince" and there are also mixed feelings regarding Callum and Rayla's relationship, but in this case it's the male protagonist who gets the short end of the stick. Callum ended with someone who was sent to kill the sibling that he cares for deeply and while he and Claudia were never official we get an episode where he can just contemplate over the fact that the girl he had feelings (who he has known for a much longer time than Rayla) betrayed and he he did seem deeply hurt at the end of that episode, so Callum's transition to Rayla is about equal to Katara's transition to Aang.
I loved Katara pretty much from the start, and I really hate how much the writers shaft her to the side in favor of literally every other character...
Right from the beginning i like katara, i admire her strength and courage
12/10 take. very very well spoken. I was born male and while my gender identity is all over the place, I still live my life largely as a man. Avatar is my favorite show but I did always feel like the ending was cheap in some way but didn’t know exactly why. And of course it is due to my lack of lived experience that I didn’t have the words to explain why it made me feel icky. I appreciate how well you illustrated your point with empathy and intelligence. Thank you thank you for the great video!
Thank you for your kind words, my friend! Cheap is definitely an appropriate word to an extent. They really didn't stick the landing, neither with Aang's nor Katara's internal conflicts.
"It's not a ship name, but it should be." -you're right and you should say it.
😂😂 this just became my favorite comment I've ever gotten, thank you friendo!
I just think the issue with Aang and Katara's relationship is that the creators aren't that great with romance. One of them worked on "The Dragon Prince" and there are also mixed feelings regarding Callum and Rayla's relationship, but in this case it's the male protagonist who gets the short end of the stick. Callum ended with someone who was sent to kill the sibling that he cares for deeply and while he and Claudia were never official we get an episode where he can just contemplate over the fact that the girl he had feelings for (who he has known for a much longer time than Rayla) betrayed him and he did seem deeply hurt at the end of that episode, so Callum's transition to Rayla is about equal to Katara's transition to Aang.
Even when I was a kid watching the finale some fifteen odd years ago, there was always 'something' about that ending kiss scene that never felt... right... to me. It just wasn't the final note that I thought the show should have ended on- or was building up to or even indicative of the deeper message that the writers had worked so hard to tell. That being the idea... that true love... isn't something one can just obtain; it doesn't exist merely as something to be earned or even as some tangible manifestation that we ourselves could ever feel owed to. True love... changes us, and opens us up to the idea of being changed. At least... that's what it SHOULD do. It's there to help us embrace- and at times comes to terms with- change... no matter what form it may take; to make us more capable of understanding ourselves and our relation to those (and the world) around us.
It isn't something to be won.
Just something to help us appreciate our place and role... in view of the much larger narrative... a little bit better.
Thank you for helping me to understand why that ending didn't resonate with me quite in the same way- as I was hoping it would, and for making feel like I wasn't alone in... being hurt by it.
I often wonder how people would react if Avatar was created nowadays, two of the strongest benders women, one a disabled girl, the protagonist's journey of pacifism, the anti-war messaging, Sokka confronting his misogyny, an all non-white cast.
In this reality people would make hate mobs for Katara and send death threats to the cast and crew like they do to so many.
Avatar came out at a good time and it's writing is just great enough that we're still talking about its shortcomings now.
By cast, do you mean the voice actors because the main group was primarily voiced by Caucasians?
I loved your take one this and i fully agree except for one point,
i never really like Katara and Aang together at the end, but it was the generic "hero gets the girl" ending so i expected it as a kid. I never understood why people wanted Katara to end up with Zuko either, they were friends, sure, but i always thought there was too much wrong about it for it to make a sane and healthy relationship.
But after a while of just watching discourse because i honestly just wanted Katara to live her life and not have to end up with anybody, i realized people didn't ship her with anyone for any particular character moments, like there are some moments that could Lead to a relationship that could properly be built on either side, but the story ends right after the war? who's thinking about love and romance right after they've almost died once a month for like over a year?
Then i realized that people just want the generic fairytale happy ending for her in the most old fashioned allo-heteronormative way possible. it's just how things are then.
i was disappointed that people were actually just arguing which emotionally unavailable traumatized guy she'd end up with (the new better ruler from the kingdom that subjugated her people or the messiah) and not like, if her character at all ever showed much interest in romance beyond the misogynistic jokes of "every girl loves cheesy romance".
Maybe it's just because i'm aromantic but i don't get why the question is Aang or Zuko and not why either.
Thanks so much! I hear where you're coming from, and I tried to avoid making that false dichotomy, but I can certainly see how it looked like I was painting an either or situation. To be honest, even though I think Katara ending up with Zuko would have tied all three characters' arcs up very nicely (for more on that, watch Sneezy's video, which is in the description above) I would have been extremely happy if there had been no romantic pairings by the end of the show as well (except Sokka and Suki: they're too cute). I think a perfect last frame for the show would have been the whole Gaang watching a beautiful sunset together, no kiss needed. I harped on her relationship with Zuko because I think it represents Katara's growth in a lot of ways, and I just really resent the way the comics poisoned their friendship. I agree that the allo/hetero norm really shouldn't be assumed. Thanks for bringing this up, friend, it's something I'll have to be cognizant of going forward.
What made Katara the most interesting to me was her fighting style. In the show waterbending is based off of the art of Tai Chi a slow moving exercise system from Mainland China (I have to say mainland because there's 2 countries named China in our world).
There are 5 main styles within the art: Chen, Yang, Wu, Sun and Hao style.
Chen style looks similar to Hung gar (the art that inspired earth bending) with its deep stances and explosive moves. Katara displays one of the moves in that style when she's putting water into a jug.
Yang style is the most popular style and is what people know Tai Chi for. There are many different forms within Yang style but in the context of the show Master Pakku does the Yang style 24. Katara's water whip move is based off of a move known as Single whip. You can see this move displayed when Pakku makes his debut with those other waterbenders and you can also see it in the show's intro.
As for the rest they don't make an appearance in the show and these ones are more rare in terms of people who practice it.
Wu style from my point of view mimics both chen and yang but with a slightly different approach in how the moves look.
Sun style was created by a man who practiced wu style and ba gua (the art that inspired airbending)
Hao style I have no comment on that.
Loved this video - it really resonated with me when you said you aren't sure whether her creators actually understand how *real* Katara is. It made me think of another animated girl that I really loved while the rest of her fandom furiously despise... I speak of course of Sakura from Naruto - for me, a girl, her character was a breath of fresh her in Anime context - finally we got an actual 13 years old, allowed to be as clumsy and obnoxious and built of bad decisions - just like a female Naruto really, but while Naruto blunders about, Sakura's likewise childishness earned her nothing but distaste from the (largely male) fandom. And back to Avatar - I am 100% with you on Katara and Aang, Zuko would have been a far better partner for her.. I only hope that now in the soon to be released Netflix series Katara and Aang's arc can get a better relationship, the fact Bryke left the show gives me a messure of hope for a better story told for her.
Sadly Kishimoto basically gave up on writing Sakura a little bit before Shippuden, she was a great character that ended up being wasted. Though that's a problem with most of the Naruto series in general.
I was trying to express this exact sentiment to some of my friends recently. The romance with Aang was there simply because the writers willed it, and the way they treat her romantic arcs throughout the show is very uncomfortable to me in light of how they end her romantic arc. I might have expressed it inelegantly by saying they just wrote Katara to bond romantically with whatever guy they wanted and then tossed it all away at the end so they could marry her off to Aang as a gift for saving the world, but it's true. It isn't an indictment on her character it's an indictment of the callousness of her writing in this specific regard.
this is so true. i know the word misogyny gets used a lot these days and sometimes incorrectly too *typically in "redpilled"💀 gender bait videos* but it really is just that. misogyny. people LOVE Zuko for the same reason they HATE Katara
what people hate katara I didn't.
I genuinely believe that the Katara hate is being over exaggerated. Sure, she's not as popular as Zuko... Sure, there's some people who don't like Kataras character. But y'all are making it out to seem like disliking Katara is a popular opinion. When the popular opinion is that all characters in atla are masterfully written and are amazing characters
I hate when people reduce Katara into a love interest.
Powerful video, thanks for sharing your thoughts
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and making this video. She’s always meant a lot to me and gotten so much senseless and sexist hate from people. Katara will always be my favorite character too and I also felt so mad at how inactive and passive she became during LoK. Like the fact that she is minimized to a healer and the avatar’s wife.
Lok has so many characters but people still simp for the old characters. Their story did continue in comics and upcoming movies but her arc is fulfilled and doesn't have to out shine the new cast. It already did and even LoK couldn't make its own identity without being compared.
@@totalfree8740 I like LoK a lot. I was just sharing that they massacred her character in LoK. If old characters like Bumi still had fire in them, it’s a weird contrast to have Katara in a healing hut. Even Zuko was more active than her.
@@riazgolshan Katara has always been in the healing hut. What ever scene she has was in character. The problem was that their weren't many scenes to explore when the next Avater is a water bender like her.
@@totalfree8740 I agree that Katara is a master healer and that’s a huge part of her character but I feel like her old age causing her to only pursue that was a weird choice. She was also really the only member of the Gaang not heavily involved in Republic City.
@@riazgolshan That just reflect her priorities by the time we reach their and also LoK has a new cast. If they ever expand Avater in adult years, then we could see her and Sokka balancing politics, looking after their tribe and lots of well choreograph fights with a sprinkler of anime humor.
I never stop to see this story that way, but I totally agree.
Katara was already my favorite character, and this video just made me love her so much more!
I never participated in shipping wars, or anything like this, but I have sort of just dismissed zutara fans in my mind and I never even realized how little I understood Katara's character. I mean I think every character in avatar is masterfully written, and I definitely thought highly of Katara as well, but I never realized the true depth to her character that you showcase in this video. Thank you for giving me a better appreciation of her character, and for widening my perspective on life in general
This was an interesting video. Personally, I never had any issues with Aang and Katara getting together. I think that there were hints throughout the series that Katara had feelings for him. It never felt like she saw him as just a little brother or that she was more like his mother. I can understand not liking ending their stories with their kiss, but saying that it was akin to a forced marriage by two creepy guys is a bit much. That being said, it is a huge shame that Katara is only seen as a healer and the Avatar's wife afterwards. She is a master who trained Korra, but she is a lot more passive than you'd think she'd become given her personality throughout the series.
I remember a lot of the backlash Katara got back when the series was airing and it was really excessive to say the least. She has a lot of great episodes and moments throughout the series. I do think that her comment to Sokka about not loving their mother as much as she did was pretty cold. She may have had a more special connection to their mother by comparison, but I don't think that meant Sokka didn't love her.
But Katara never said that sokka didnt love her, she only said he didnt love her as much as she did which is accurate because he cant even remember his mothers face
I think it’s kind of an errant stance to liken real people to mistreatment of a fictional character that happens to be a woman of color.
Personally, I have always loved Kitara and see her as a strong character. Even today, I would consider her a character that has better growth and development than the majority of the main cast. And on every rewatch, I see new things and appreciate the writing of these characters moreso.
And I agree, thematically, that Kitara and Zuko have a better end result than Kitara and Aang. However, I think it’s undercutting her character to say she was just motherly for sake of mothering Aang cause that’s all she knew.
Kitara and Aang both represent being the sole survivor of their culture. Aang has lost everyone, only seeing traces of it in his travels and Kitara is expected to ignore her talents as it is a grim reminder of the cruel reality of the world.
They both are challenged to adapt and grow, learn more about who they are and what their role is. Kitara comes to see how the north treats its citizens and takes it upon herself to not be silenced. She is the sole reason why the north was able to see the south once again as an extension of their culture and people. Kitara restored balance in her tribe literally in the first season alone. And this parallels nicely with Aang’s arc.
Aang equally went through the majority of three seasons knowing he must find a way to restore balance, but had no comprehension on how. He had loads of help from his friends but ultimately he had made the choice to defy what his past lives and friends suggested and forged his own path. And while many see the lion turtle as a macguffin, it was through his love of animals and respect for them that the ability was discovered. So much of Aang’s story revolves around animals, and most of these interactions helps the team be able to accomplish the end result they were looking for, and when Appa was gone, we see how out of sorts he is and the despair he has. And the person who was there to then step in, to lead and to bring him back out of his depression was Kitara, the person who was so in tune with Aang and his needs.
They both represent a lack in the world that was brought on by the war and they both helped each other to come out stronger. They both fought back against what everyone else told them and they were able to accomplish the most because of it.
Katara's arc reminds me of Retsuko from Aggretsuko. This might be a bit of a spoiler now but it's been a while since aggretsuko came out so I'm going for it. It's all the build up of the character where you want some sort of catharsis at the end, but it's just being mellowed down like an old, deflated and wrinkly baloon that leaves everyone bummed at the end. I really wish they let Katara's ending at least somehow open at the end of ATLA instead of giving us the boring old 'happy ending' story. I liked your video btw!
This was so insightful and nuanced. Thanks for sharing it
Im a dude and like thank you I’ve never known why I never liked the Kaatang stuff in the show I just assumed it was due to the relationship never being built up and felt they just made the relationship canon for some reason also Kaatara being a healer and not having anything in republic city no statues nothing was such a fvck you
aw man this really crystallized everything for me. Hoping you do a video on Azula also since I'd like to hear your take on her
I did it! czcams.com/video/2u1oh5QQG4g/video.html
i am glad this video exists. Thank you for sharing this.
I preferred Zutara, because there was more chemistry there than Kataang more equality, and my friend who I no longer speak to was more of a Kataang. They laughed at me when I told them I liked Zutara better and I just felt this uncomfortableness towards Aang wanting Katara. Nothing against Aang, I think he was more or less for Toph. T8 🤔Katara was not my favorite character but she definitely was on the list. My favorite was Toph. I think we also need to compare the two because I always felt like Katara was jealous of Toph? Toph was able to speak her mind, Katara was told to just be the bigger person most of the time.
I'm getting into this show as an adult and I completely agree with the point you're making. You found the words to describe the awful feeling the ending gave me.
Also, Zutara!
I always thought that Katara's main goal was to help Aang "save the world" as she said in every intro, so people like her mother wouldn't be killed, but I learned from this that her real goal was to not have to behave maternally anymore.
Complex characters have both internal and external goals, and the tension between those things gives rise to the conflict.
@@timecapsule7842 Fair enough. And I would agree with that in that her initial interest in Aang was due to the fun he brought to her hard, repetitive life, but I don't think it's ever stated, or even implied, at any point that her desire is to never have to behave maternally again.
It's always been hard for me to have a talking point on her. While yes I mostly find her to be a phenomenal person, there are some things about her personality that really bother me. Her biggest being her willingness to put all of her friends in danger, and completely derail time sensitive operations to go fight battles that her and everyone else are completely ill equip to handle. I get that it comes from a place of trusting her friends to survive and I get that is the whole reason why anng even picked a fight with the fire lord at all, but it doesn't change the fave that it's a really concerning traits she consistently displays. But the reason it's hard for me to say anything is because she is only 14, a literal child. She is not held to the same standards an adult would be. But that's doesn't change the fact that her willingness to do that has always lead me to never completely let my gaurd down around her.
The face that everyone thought katara was like 17 and ang was 12 didnt exactly help either. Probably due to the voice acting. Well as a kid i shipped her with ang cause they were undeniably cute but oh my gosh HER AND ZUKO? The chemistry the parallels, eveything, i love mai dont get me wrong and i love ang but those two hit different
Katara is 14.. where tf you got 17 from what 😭😭
@@IzzyQueen12literally…she didn’t even SOUND 17, she sounded perfectly fine for her age
@@violetlavi2207 LITERALLYY she looks, sounds and acts like a 14-year-old 😭😭
@@IzzyQueen12 girl read between the lines, I said everyone THOUGHT 😌
I never said she wasn't 14. As a kid I never thought azula her and zuko were basically kids cause of the VAs. Katara always sounded acted older then ang too
@@serenitysubs933 …you might be one of the few who think so. I’ve never heard ANYONE mistake Katara for 17. She sounds a little older than Aang, sure, but just a little. Not 5 YEARS older.
Also…her acting older is literally because of her arc: she’s used to acting like the mom, but she has to let go and be the child she is. That’s not even subtext, it’s outright stated multiple times in the show
This is a great video. I agree that Katara is an amazing character and that she is unfairly hated by the fandom. However, I don't think you fairly analyzed Aang and Katara's relationship especially in season 1. In episode 1 before Katara even knows Aang is the Avatar she seeks him out to teach her water bending. The plan to go to the North Pole was first proposed by Aang for Katara to learn water bending. Season 1 Katara is not just going along to protect Aang, she has her own motivations from the get-go and Aang recognizes and respects those motivations. When master Paku refuses to teach Katara water bending Aang initially refuses to learn from him in solidarity, this is a mirror of the scene in episode 2 when Sokka kicks Aang out the village. Season 1 had a lot of development for Katara and Aang's relationship that carries throughout the rest of the series. Aang gives Katara hope, adventure and recognition and Kartara give Aang understanding, strength and love, they both support eachother. Zuko has some great moments with Katara at the very end, but that represents just the beginning of their relationship. Aang and Katara had three seasons of development so I think it makes much more sense for Aang to get with Katara rather and then Zuko.
I feel l so bad for not seeing the katara hate tbh !! I was clearly not deep enough into the fandom back in the day
AND YEAH I HATE THIS SO MUCH
I hated this as a kid, and i hate this now
8:14 I always saw the kisses as while she likes him kinda wrong place and time. The second time she even said she had a lot going on, she was feeling overwhelmed by everything, and didn’t feel like she had the capacity to try to figure out new labels/dynamics/behaviors to her relationship with Aang.
20:12 I like how when you say wise desicions you leave out the part that explains how zuko almost died in the footage.
HOW IS THIS UNDER 200K VIEWS!! It's such a good video
I remember the ending and thinking I didn't like katara and aang together - it seemed fine at the time? because it was a 'norm' to have the male character fall in love and get together with the girl (no matter what happens between them - even if it's bad)
And honestly yea ur video opened the doors to some realisations on why the relationship was so weird and felt out of place. katara's arc was downplayed for a 'perfect' ending. I shipped zutara and zuko did have moments of having her back they both understood each other deeply compared to aang. While aang had heroic moments with her it's usually in the damsel in distress angle rather than him respecting her as an equal - with his fascination of her is that of a child. (Honestly same thing with Zuko's arc with Mai - though it is more believable since they actually have a history together)
I completely dropped LoK when it came out when none of the hang was there and Katara lost that passion to her that was so prominent in the original series (and many other reasons).
Romance is not the best thing in this series, but I do think it's one of the things that leaves a bland taste in your mouth compared to the other god tier writing in this show.
Thank you! Gosh that's so kind. I'm just a lil guy at the moment, so subscribing, liking, and sharing would definitely help 😁 but that said, given the focus of your comment, I cannot recommend Sneezy Reviews video enough. I'm realizing I didn't link it in the description, so I shall do that right now. But yeah, I just felt like all the pieces were coming together when I watched that, I'm a little obsessed. Sneezy is also on Tumblr and they just posted a bunch of findings from reading the original screenplays in "zutara heavy" episodes such as Southern Raiders, and it's fascinating to see how much more explicitly shippy the original scripts were. Blah, I'm rambling. I'll link the video on my description now. Thank you for your comment, friend!
I've always loved this show and Katara as a character, they meant (and mean) a lot to me, but damn this video made me realize I've never digged even the surface of the text of the show. You made me realize stuff I alone could never think of, and even though I'm grateful for that, now I'm overwhelmed by the fact that the way I'll look at the show again will be worsened. I didn't realize how the two creators shitted on Katara's character and on her development as a character and on her relationship with aang and other characters (I stood for Kataang until today, but now I'll have to reconsider some stuff...). Thanks for making me think, but damn if I'll have to deal with my inner child to come at peace on the fact that there are so many flaws on how some characters in particular interact with eachother. I dunno how to feel rn, surely not so good ahahahahaha, but that's ok. Though I'd like to ask you how you kept enjoying the show the same way, cuz it could help me to deal with all this and more without feeling so lost (yep, I feel a little dumb too)
Hi there, thanks for commenting! I'm sorry you found this vid distressing - I think it had that effect on other people too and it was never my intention to hurt anyone, but I totally understand where you're coming from. And you're definitely not dumb. I don't think anyone has conclusively learned how to deal with these biases in stories. But yes, ATLA is very much my favorite show. Honestly, I continue to love it despite it's flaws because I know the show inside and out and can choose which parts I engage with and those I don't. I'm also a big believer in head-canons that don't necessarily contradict the material but make the narrative work better for my understanding of the show. There is so much beauty and depth in the show's writing that I feel able ro engage with the good without dwelling on the bad. But damn, the bad parts really do get to me. Tbh, I think talking about it with understanding folks is the best thing to do, and spending some time on the pro-Katara tag helped me balance my love for the show and my critique. If I think if anything else, I'll add an edit. Thanks again for commenting!
@@timecapsule7842 thank you for responding me! You don't have to apologize, I know that it wasn't your purpose to hurt anyone. Your words really sweetened the whole thing, I'll keep them in great consideration while interacting with the show again and I'll try to follow your advices in order to get a better understanding of the show and a better way to deal with all of its aspects. Thank you again for the care
i have always felt that something was wrong with kataras portrayal but i never completely new what it was, but this video really sums up everything i didnt even know i felt. damn.
3:50 Jeez those people gotta touch grass, especially the one holding that anger for 15 years smh..
i can respect other people's opinions about the show but if they hate katara it's an immediate red flag. to me there's no valid reason why someone should hate a girl who wants better for the world, i dont care if she's lashed out at other people *very rarely mind you* and talks about her mother a lot (which only happens about 5 times in the entirety of 60 episodes at that) they need to have some feelings of internalised misogyny if they can forgive other characters committing war crimes and not a 14 year old girl
I think it's less to do with her lashing out and talking about her mother and more to do with how she bites off more than she can chew and still ends up being in the right. For example, when she tried to convince Haru to use Earthbending to save the old man and it ended up backfiring. While she couldn't have known that the old man would have turned him in, her solution is to charge into the situation with the same attitude that caused Haru to be captured in the first place: charging in and instilling what she conceives to be morally right, and she ends up in the right. I've watched skits about World War 1 and 2 on a British educational show called "Horrible Histories," one was about a World War II housewife who's resorted to eating zoo animals because food is so scarce and another of a World War I soldier who's forced to eat bread made from sawdust, pepper made from ashes, and coffee made from coal tar. These are decisions people wouldn't make under normal circumstances, but in a war, it seems that pragmatism overules idealism. While Katara does have a pragmatic side, she seems to be written as an idealist first and a pragmatist second. Like in "The Painted Lady," where she tries to help a town even though the gang is on a strict deadline. She even gives Sokka a hard time about his scheduling, even though she also knows how important this is.
Katara is also the only character in the series who doesn't seem to have a moment to reflect on her actions: Aang has to accept the responsibilities as the Avatar, Sokka ponders his station as a man, Toph learns that vulnerability doesn't necessarily equal weakness, and Zuko's entire arc is dedicated to the realignment of his values, even Azula gets a moment to contemplate her mother's love for her. As far as I can tell, Katara's the only one who never really gets a moment where her ideals are called into question.
I love zutara in fanon but I honestly don't think it would be a satisfying conclusion to katara's story in canon. In the scenario that katara and zuko get married, katara would be fire nation royalty, living in the palace and raising the next generation of fire nation monarchs in sozin's house. I personally don't think that would be a good ending for her at all.
Katara also loves her home and culture. She wouldn't give that up just for Zuko. Plus family is very big to her, could she really be with someone whose family took her mother and Zuko himself was rough with her grandma. Living in the same place where it was likely ordered to kill the last waterbender
This is extremely personal and doesn't actually have to do with the arguments in the video that much. I am a cis man, and I have nonetheless experienced sexism directed at me in particular throughout my life, many times in the way I hear represented as particular to women in patriarchy. As a child and teenager I had been relentlessly bullied because of not being manly enough yet daring to be a person that thought he deserved better than to be shut down at every moment he wanted to speak. I was expected to work with and never criticize these people that hurt me to the point that the severe depression and anxiety I still deal with to this day can be tracked down to the trauma they left me with. I ended up becoming radicalized, sexist, and hateful, I became a terrible person because of it. Every time I have talked about these issues with a woman they have been brushed off, be it because these are things that "just don't happen" or because "I have to suck it up".
I have always seen myself in Katara, however I never had a friend group that cared for me the same way, Avatar always seemed like a fantasy about people that couldn't exist. In fact I have often seen myself in female characters through their struggles and ways of thinking. And of course I have seen myself in men too. That being said, you dismissing Aangs breakdown over the final episodes as him "behaving like a petulant baby" just brought out old wounds for me. My sister always treated me like this, like my struggle was fake, and my pain easy in comparison; like Aang, my issues are not real, my trauma is "not as bad", and I deserve to be mistreated.
Again, this isn't about your arguments, or the point you're trying to make during this video. And I know this is really rambly and probably filled with grammatical errors I dont care to fix right now, I merely felt almost forced to say this, for my own closure in a way. As I write this, I am already regretting doing so, I already fear getting the same responses I always get, I am even writing this on an alt account just out of fear. However, I may still hold on to the idea of it being worth it, and like it's gonna be different.
Wow, thank you so much for contributing your voice to the conversation, my friend. I'm amazed and thankful for your radical honesty and authenticity and I hope I can create a safe place online for people to express themselves the way you have. I apologize sincerely if my phrasing was harmful in that moment, and I can completely understand where you're coming from. I won't try to prove I'm right or anything, I was speaking as much from a place of hurt and trauma as I suspect you were - sometimes the needs of different people are divergent or even contradictory, but there needs to be space made for all of them. I just want to send you good vibes and let you know that I appreciate you. If you get a mean backlash on this comment, I'll absolutely back you up. Tbh, this is the first time I've been forced to think about the kind of community I'm cultivating, and I'm gonna need go chew on this for a bit. Anyway, I'm rambling too, but I'm so moved. Thank you, thank you, thank you ❤
@@timecapsule7842 thank you so much for your response. I really haven't felt safe talking about this kinda thing anywhere else and it's genuinely both heartwarming and reassuring that you find it valid. I will definitely pay attention to your channel in the future as your analysis really felt fresh and enlightening to me. Again, thank you for making me feel heard
@@pseudoblizzard-hl7jg My pleasure. As you say, you definitely deserve to feel safe online, and I hope my channel can be a good place for that. And thank you so much for the kind words! 💙
As a woman and feminist, I say you did well to share your perspective. I believe we can all benefit from broader discussions on how the patriarchy affects men and amab folk and how particularly the women in their lives can contribute to that problem (there should be space for all genders within feminism tbh). I can totally empathize with your hesitation to share this because while I'm noticing that such discussions are thankfully much more commonplace in feminist circles now, over time I've had to distance myself from several supposedly "feminist" spaces that are quick to dismiss the real harm the patriarchy inflicts upon men or even weaponize and enforce it against individual men for failing to measure up to patriarchal standards (like mocking and dehumanizing short men. It will never be the bossbabe move some girlies think it is).
As a woman, you are put in a lose-lose situation where there's just no backlash-free way to perform your gender identity (if you are feminine your taste and interests are worthy of scorn and bereft of value, you are dumb and cringe and vapid- but if you tone it down and aren't feminine enough you are too masculine, too aggressive, too unlikable, too unfuckable). I genuinely don't understand how someone who comes from that experience can have that perspective unless they are disguising their urge to deal pain back as feminism, even if that means they have to uphold the very thing that's making them suffer in the first place. Suffice to say, I've no respect for that.
zuko and Katara works better in American Dragon.
a big part of the ending feeling left-field is that in s3e16-18 aang and katara have disagreements/arguments in each episode, especially regarding the "what are we" in ember island players, as you mentioned
frankly i feel like that scene is the single most detrimental part to the viability of the kataang ending. the writers were spending most of the episode making fun of their older episodes, the shipping wars, the characters etc, and it seemed like that convo between katara and aang was basically taking the shipping wars joke way too far, without considering ramifications on the actual story. much like you said you ignore the kiss ending i frankly ignore that argument and try to pretend it doesnt exist. in fact if it weren't for the two other lasting impressions of that episode (zuko-toph heart-to-heart, and the foreshadowing of the finale at the end of the play) i would just consider ember island players a non-canon joke episode since thats basically what the rest of the episode is, meta-joking about the show
I also thought the kiss at the end of Atla was weird when I first saw it.
It basically felt like it "had" to happen which is why I understand why you compared it to an "arranged marriage."
The truth of the matter is that Atla just didn't have that much of an interest in developing the romance in the series but it included it anyway. It had a few interesting moments, Sokka learning from Suki, Mei fighting Azula to help Zuko escape, etc.
But the relationships were mostly superficial with no depth or connection to the character arcs. Whiurgerch is imo why Katara and Aang ending up together felt like a nothing burger. The male lead ends up with the female lead. That's the extent of it. I think it's cute but that's about it.
Watching your video helped understand why it might be more hurtful to women or people labeled as women by society, seeing a character fight against patriarchy only to end up in a romance that exists purely because it is a patriarchal trope of storytelling can be devastating. Which isn't to say that having characters end up in romances without diving into them is inherently bad it's just too common especially for female characters and worth keeping an eye out for and understanding that it can be hurtful to people and they have a right to that hurt and to express it.
one thing I hate is when fandom pretends that pairing katara with a different guy would fix all the problems with her writing (which are rooted in misogyny, v simple). especially when shippers just end up putting her in the same, or worse, patriarchal roles, e.g. that of a "fire lady" completely stripping her of her water tribe culture and identity and tying her to the nation which is directly responsible for the genocide of her people.
the sexist treatment in the show and her marketing has always been evident. the fact that the promo pushed the question of "who will katara end up with?" as the most pressing question in relation to her character has always reeked of misogyny to me. and the fandom took the bait. and it's really tainted all discussion about katara.
I agree. I think Zutara would have been a good writing decision (not necessarily a Big Damn Kiss, but just some indication that they may have feelings for each other). But I think it would have been a fantastic ending if the last scene simply emphasized the gaang's friendship. That was always the magic of Avatar, so why not end the show on that note? Anyway, thanks for commenting!
@@timecapsule7842 you are joking right you calm you get Katara character but you don’t even know the character Katara, Zutara is an insult to her character you just prove you are a Zuko fan not Katara.
Zuko family killed her mother something if you knew Katara as a character will know that’s one of the thing’s that shape her life and she should member of that family will just make her a hypocrite, why on the another hand Katara had already love and believe in Aang before she even meant him and after meeting him he became the man she hope he would be and even better as he also thought her how to grown as a person.
you are making Katara decisions all about you and what you would want and not what she Katara as a character would want, let’s play with your theory with Zutara just take a look at how Zuko treat Katara at the finale like her opinions and feelings doesn’t matter as he indirectly tell her to go kick rock why he fight Azula one on one”he never carry is romantic partner along his decision making something that would eventually make Mai to break up with him why on the another hand Aang make Katara feel important as he always take her opinions and advice into consideration before making any decisions which is how romance work as lovers are like teammate.
I like ATLA, and LOK even better but I haven't been much for the canonical ships in the show. I actually ship Aang x Azula because they can learn more from each other than Kataang ever could. Azula can teach Aang to grow up, and be more grounded and realistic while Aang can teach her forgiveness, and how to let go. Also, Azula wouldn't put up with the level of disrespect Katara got from Aang. If Aang doesn't learn to treat her right, there'll be many bolts of lightning slung in his direction throughout the relationship.
It was _such_ a "male wish fulfillment" ending. Agree with you completely; the ending always makes me slightly ill too, and ending a show that was mainly about friendship on a "Big Damn Kiss" that wasn't even properly set up, instead of the perfect friendship scene immediately preceeding it has always felt like such a bizarre and very obviously forced writing choice to me.
Thank you! It's hard to say if she's the best written character in the show (everyone's fantastically written) but Katara deserves these accolades, and I think people skip over her way too much.
If I had to pick Zutara would have been a beautiful and cathartic pairing but even then, I just think Kataras story should have ended up with her being single and more focused on her personal arc of becoming a fierce water bender, political and feminist activist and trauma survivor who fights for those she loves and stands up for what she believes in. I think keep Aangs crush on Katara but keep it unreciprocated and add that to his own personal development you know? I love Katara and Zuko’s little moments, (they had wayyyyy more chemistry between eachother than Aang and Katara ever did) but still just keep it at that with perhaps a little inkling that Zuko and Katara might have something together in the future. Katara deserved way better than to just be written as the prize at the end for Aang even though she was kissed with no consent and was emotionally unfulfilled unsupported and not understood by him continuously.
Nice analysis. I really hate how Katara is downgraded as Aang's girlfriend in the HQs. The only moments I feel she has time to shine in the comics is during North and South and a bit in Imbalance...
I always thought she was the girl from the south that kicked someone's ass because he thought nothing of her. Season 1 the best water bending ever
man not only did Legend of Korra turn Toph into a fascist cop, but it also reduced Katara from a revolutionary guerilla fighter against colonial forces to an apolitical grandmother. Avatar's politics are frustrating, but Legend of Korra is straight up colorblind neoliberal bullshit. I love Katara so much and her character always deserved better.
this makes me hate the ending of atla even more 😭it has so many issues, this probably being one of the biggest.... also... just keeping the fire nation monarchy which just really comes off as saying "monarchy is good guys, just as long as the monarch happens to be a nice guy! and if not, well, uhhh,,,, let's just pretend that can't happen again" and it really ruins a lot of the show for me
I think the problem with the kataang relationship is that it's lazy. im sorry there's very little true romantic development and much of the infactuation is focused solely on aangs side. We never truly see katara resolve her feelings. Aang had a crush on her from the moment he met her where he's essentially pedestalizing her and viewing her as his soul mate. That's just not realistic. The entire relationship seems like a fantasy for guys getting that crush who friendzoned them
I know, I always skip the ending. It doesn't feel right. However Zuko was with Mai, that was a cute and natural couple for now. I never disliked Katara. I didn't like her taking Appa to seek revenge because it wasn't her Bizon, she could have found another way to get there. But that's about it
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im not sure i entirely agree with you about katara's character but i appreciate your thoughts and i was wondering if you can you please talk about amazon censoring the confrontation and following fight with master pakku on their platform
Thanks! Wow, I didn't know about that. Can you please explain more?
@timecapsule7842 well im not sure how much is cut out of the "prime video ATLA." i was just watching a reaction of seige of the north part 1 and saw they cut out everything to do with katara standing up for herself even though they kept the fight with han over Yue. I dont know too much about this version cuz i haven't seen anyone talking about it but surely this couldnt just be a "Mistake" its censorship.
while I admit that Katara (and Aang too) was never my favourite, I did get her character more after her talk with Hakoda and the first few episodes of S03 in general. I did never like Kataang though, it was clear Katara saw herself as a pseudo-mother figure and Aang just had a crush on her, which I thought he would grow out of as his character develops. I honestly thought he would let go of Katara to master the avatar state in season 3 and that he'd come to respect her as a fellow warrior and equal.
(Also I watched ATLA in 2020 but I knew some stuff from tumblr so I fully thought Zutara was the canon ship and that Aang would be the second lead in a love triangle lol)
The ending kiss icked me out but I didn't give much thought to it beyond "it's weird cause Katara is a mom figure to him; also they didn't resolve anything?" and in LoK I was surprised Katara wasn't more active in world affairs but again I didn't think much on it.
Watching this video has made everything make more sense now. Thanks
ALRIGHT! THAT’S IT!!! IM SUBSCRIBING!!!!
Awww thank you for your enthusiasm!! 😁
I always liked katara as a kid, like another tv crush of sorts. And then felt the most like an aang as well lol. So naturally I always hoped for that ending even though looking back it was weird and should've probably been more open. Or atleast have more context, like bonding. Also never thought about the LoK stuff, she'd definitely be in some Political position for sure I dont understand why they didnt do anything with that.
5:51 this is such a good point i've been trying to make to people who criticise katara for this scene. not just katara but characters in general can do or say hurtful things and they don't always need to apologise for it. katara is allowed to fight back and defend herself without needing to think about other peoples feelings all the time. imo people who say she should have apologised are just looking for her to become a marysue, she's allowed to make mistakes and do things that not everyone approves of, she doesn't need to fix them or make up for them to appease the other characters or the audience.
10:44 in the comics she does do more things! I haven’t read them all though so idk much about it ngl
I stopped reading after The Search. I can't even read those as canon, I just don't like them. Maybe I'm not a real fan, but I just can't get through them
From what I’ve read and heard, she doesn’t do anything OUT OF THIS WORLD. And then she gets pregnant and that’s pretty much it lol it’s so stereotypical. She couldn’t even heal Korra, they had the opportunity to show us why she’s the greatest waterbender and flopped the opportunity. The entire gang doesn’t do anything extraordinary in the comics. Toph taught metal bending, yes, but nothing much outside of teaching. The creators are long over-due with the Adult animated movie. They should’ve brought together a more cohesive ending to the ATLA characters. The movie should’ve came out before Legend of Korra. Also, Katara SHOULD HAVE been present during the Yakone trial. Toph, Sokka, and Aang didn’t think hm, “let’s call our girl Katara to sit in this trial just in case Yakone pulls something…” , she may not have been stronger but she was the best known bloodbender/waterbender known at least by the AVATAR!!!!! And Aang didn’t think to call his girl down to the courtroom?? Really?!?! Lmfao. She probably couldn’t because the full moon fact, but damn y’all didn’t take advantage of the ONE strongest waterbender who would’ve possibly been able to resist Yakones blood bending at the time. She probably wasn’t active because of course she was held down by kids or pregnant with her 2nd child. Ridiculously stereotypical and an easy way to throw her to the side (the most powerful waterbender at that, what are the odds lol). But I digress.
@@IAmPhoenixXxXx Hey she did heal korra, the bit she couldnt korras trauma refused too. Its impressive enough she healed all but that, and was korras emotional support sheltered and , being a big part why korra went on selfdicovery in the forst place.
And in fairness, at that point she is a granny and probably retired mostly.
@@IAmPhoenixXxXxAbout why Aang didn't call her girl, even if we find the good and creativity in blood bending to her it's still taking away someone's freewill. And by the look of that scene noone expected to feel that in a court room. It was unexpected.
I literally had NO IDEA there was this much viceral and actual hatred for katara. Even tho i think in some episodes they made her too annoying (out of character levels of annoying), i never disliked her. She went from a total beginner to the late blooming water bending prodigy with her power levels being pushed through the ceilling with pretty much every single episode. Its such a satisfying progression.
(to be fair tho, i wish she wouldve actually done some damage to the southern raider guy. But kids show, i understand)
I thought the White Lotus preserved her people with Korra's, Morlok's and The Southern Water Tribes families. Not to mention Aang and Katara's daughter is a waterbender and their both female. I assume Kya can relate to her younger brother Tenzen to some capacity. Please help me to understand.
I don't think Kya and Tenzin relate to each other as much as you would think. By the time they were born, the North Pole probably had plenty of time for the number of Waterbenders to grow, so Kya would have had everything Katara would have if the war had not taken place. Tenzin's situation actually mirrors Katara's the most because Aang has memories of growing up with his fellow Airbenders, while Katara and Tenzin were raised in an environment where they were the only benders of their respective elements.
@@ThePrincessCH @ThePrincessCH Thank you for pointing that out, but I meant primarily from a parental standpoint as Kya would have primarily, if not exclusively been trained by Katara as Tenzin was by Aang. I couldn't help but watch ATLA a couple of times and LOF four different times to the point of exhaustion and sleep deprivation. Also, seeing as Tenzin was more enjoyable to me than Mako, Bolin and Tsunami (sorry, I'm not as familiar with how their names are spelled). Mai, Azula and Ty Lee are my favorite kinds of girls. I don't think there are enough adults like Ty Lee in current shows, but an oversaturation of Azula's archetypes, even though their different characters. Sorry I let myself get derailed. Does anyone here like to write and watch television, anime or shows?
SokkaxSuki is the most stable, ZukoxMai is heatwarming because royal family drama and AangxKatara happened because... tropes. MC always gets the girl. But i would like to add more to debate.
Katara is a Healer and mostly gives. Such people can't stand own their own since they share with everyone. Proof are the boys she gets shipped with when encountered in Season 1. Then zuko betrayed the whole Gangs in S2 stealing a hope for the war to end and causing her to have major trust issues, Zuko had to earn it back. She loses nothing of herself (except what she lost in the war)
Also, It's canon that their first kiss was at the 🎉SECRET TUNNEL 🎉 and the second time was the kind of a grand finale but... Plot Twist It's Azula. While in the third noone has a right mind. And what hole can Zuko fill that Aang couldn't she has been self-dependent most of her life. For some one that became an orphan she would want it to not happen to others, she left the waters for what she couldn't have as a child. She dose not live for the spotlight but let others inner light shine. That is Katara.
Yes, N/S Water tride politics has been shown in the comics and hinted during the next Avater's run. Besides, Zuko has more in parallel with the series protagonist than Katara. She made him reflect his past after Uncle Iroh. She doesn't heal his scares, he excepts his faliure and help the Gaang take down the one responsible.
Katara's culture was preserved. Her tribe was small but eventually they would have kids and repopulate. Aang was literally the last ot his kind. Not really comparable. Katara's the last southern waterbender however nonbenders can have bending children so its not like Katara's the only one who can have bending children from the south.
And you say Zutara would have been better but that involves Katara moving to the fire nation palace and living in the same house as past tyrants who had ordered raids of her village one which killed her mother. She would have to move so far away from her home and culture and become the fire lords wife. She hated the fire nation why would she want to live there? Plus the southern raiders showed why Kataang is better. Aang encourages the best in Katara whilst Zuko encouraged the worst and didn't attempt to stop her from doing something she will regret.
Zutara would just boil her down to Zuko's wife. Also talking about the oppressed-oppressor...Zuko's kingdom literally brutalised Katara's people for at least 2 generations.
Did you watch the video because it didn't seem like you did, its a little bit sexist to boil down the southern raiders episode, to this guy makes katara worse vs this guy makes katara better. Zuko didn't encourage the worse, he literally told her where the man who killed her mother was, Katara made her own desicions and thats important. Zuko let katara take charge, he didnt talk about himself, he didnt talk about his mother, this was about her healing infact he was the only one in that episode to talk about what Katara needed, not what was right or wrong but what Katara needed.
One thing about Katara’s flaws, is that we don’t get to see her dealing with them as much as I would’ve liked.
While we do get to see her deal with her vengeful side in ‘The Southern Raiders’ her habit of having things her way did get really tiresome in S3, especially in eps like ‘The Runaway’ & ‘The Painted Lady’.
Yes she was worried about Toph’s scamming habit getting out of control but she attempts to deal with it by controlling Toph like a little kid which showed how her mothering can get out of hand at times despite its good points.
She really pushed this when masquerading as the Painted Lady despite Sokka clearly telling her they have a priority to the Black Sun invasion but in spite of this she presses on & risks them being late with their meet up with the invasion force with a short term plan of helping one village instead of thinking of the big picture with how much more change they could enact with the invasion (had Azula not caught wind of it).
Worse yet, they treat Sokka like he’s wrong for thinking of the bigger picture & he’s pretty much forced to go along with Katara’s plan cos she refuses to budge - that’s forcing someone into a corner & it’s a really shitty thing to do to your own brother, all the while gaslighting him by saying “You do have a heart.” (which I REALLY wish he’d called her out on). So she ends up learning nothing by the end & is instead rewarded for forcing her friends to go along with a plan only SHE wanted to do - while all the others had been willing to move on.
She actually works with a similar mindset in ‘Imprisoned’ - check out Shady Doorags’ take on the ep to see what I mean, it’s actually pretty brilliant 👌
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I just really just dont really care as mutch about Katara then i do about Zuko or Sokka, or like her as mutch as Iroh or Toph
While I agree that at the time of Kya’s death, Katara probably had a closer relationship with her mother than Sokka did (like he did with their father Hakoda) it doesn’t necessarily mean Sokka loved her less, just differently. And yeah, I know he said he can barely remember what Kya looked like but I think I lot of that was down to the fact that Katara took on that role so swiftly (very likely as a way to cope with her trauma) so his memories of the things his mother did were very quickly replaced with seeing Katara in that role doing all those same things.
But as I see it, Katara WAS out of line accusing Sokka of not loving Kya as much as her, as each sibling has their own special relationship with their mum/dad & I like to imagine (after she calmed down) that she later apologised to him offscreen for saying something so needlessly hurtful (as well as attempting to take Appa without Aang’s permission - cos yes, that was STILL wrong)
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Sexism in the Avatar fandom appalls me. I go and see people praise male characters for something and then trash a female character who did the exact same thing. Katara and her talking about her mother was valid, she clearly didn't have the means to work through it. I'd like to note that Zuko, a praised character talks about his father and lost honor far more times. Korra gets flamed for a lot of reasons, being called the worst avatar, but Aang did some stupid stuff too! (Objectively the worst avatar was Roku, be honest.) Azula, a 14 year old is said she was evil from birth and deserves no redemption for what she has done, when she was raised by a man who committed genocides without batting an eye. They praise Zuko and Iroh, while simultaneously forgetting they ALSO did bad things before redeeming themselves. Zuko literally hired an assassin to assassinate Aang, but Azula was the only one ok with murder apparently to some people? Iroh also tried to conquer Ba Sing Se, which Azula did too. It's kind of annoying how out of all the characters, Toph is the most respected woman. Not because Toph doesn't deserve it, but the hate for others is just idiotic. Plus, I'd like to add that they only see Toph for her feats. I never see people talk on what she has been through. It isn't until the comics she even sees her family again, and there are multiple times prior that she talks about feeling like she was being suffocated, feeling trapped and hurt, unable to be herself. Toph chooses to ignore and downplay it a lot, but it's evident it affects her a lot. Something they also tend to forget is they are all KIDS. You are literally talking about kids, of course they are reacting the way they are! They were written as kids, not adults. I just wish they'd chill with the sexism, because every Avatar character, especially the main ones have phenomenal depth, you just need to be open to it.
Tbh this opened my eyes, at first I thought it was a ship war so I figured, anyone who mentioned Zutara was just a contrary opinion people had to have "edgey view lol" but yeah they really had something good for Katara. BUT most people watched this show as a kid I feel like it would've WAY overcomplicated things especially since the focus was on aang winning the war and becoming the hero he was destined to be. Yes, katara deserved better but I'm happy with what we got considering how some animes just glorify or straight up consist of men doing the thing and getting the girl.
Thanks friend! I really appreciate that, that's always the impact I'm going for so I appreciate it!
Hey lovely video, I hope that the hate comments arent getting too much to you.
Welp… Katara was held down by the patriarchy… who knew… I only saw a young woman who had to endure the hardships of a 100yr war, while being an essential member (better yet the glue) of Team Avatar… who started of as a amateur water bender and became a master in the course of 3 years. I don’t think we watched the same show.💯🤦🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
Women have always been strong and essential... is there no patriarchy in our world? I don't think we're experiencing the same reality.
@@timecapsule7842 If you say so… You’re the one who believes that a fictional character is being held back… when from a writing standpoint she came full circle… I also like how you couldn’t disprove what my comment was.
I've determined that your strand of commenters are by far the most asinine. No thought, no emotional vulnerability, not even a cogent criticism. Just straight up scorn, as if you were better than me for *not* making a video and expressing your opinion through dozens of hours of work. I'd rather the explicit haters than ones who get high off their own farts and think a protective layer of irony can keep people from noticing it.
@@timecapsule7842 Whatever you say… Even tho my initial comment was about your thoughts on Katara… I think you’re already high on your own farts🤣😂🤣
I heard that the culture that the Water Tribe was based on was fairly egalitarian, and when I Googled, I only found an article that mentions that it's matriarchal. It's called "Womanʻs History Month: Matriarchal power and language recovery in Alaska" if you're interested.
I always just thought Aang and Katara were fine. Not amazing, but okay. You have single handedly convinced me otherwise because Katara definitely deserved better
Like this video made me send an essay long text to my partner about how much Katara deserved better.
I would say she got better than she deserved. Aang is a perfect guy for her in any possible way. Sadly you guys are way too childish to understand it.
(And I'm saying this as a woman)
@@olyabutorina6869 I'm not saying Aang isn't good enough for her. It's about her arc and how it would have been better in a million ways if she ended up with Zuko OR if they would have put more effort in the writing of her and Aangs relationship.
@@olyabutorina6869 also who are you calling childish when you're on a video you disagree with just to comment on other people's thoughts? I don't think I asked and I really don't care.
@@olyabutorina6869 women can still be misogynistic, case in point
this video hurt to watch as you expressed exactly why something has always felt off with my perception of kataras character. Thank you for making this point so clear. I hope we will see romance be represented differently the less we see cis men directing shows
Thanks so much for your kind words, friend. I'd totally recommend The Dragon Prince. if you haven't seen it yet! It definitely felt healing for me, in a weird way.
@@timecapsule7842as a black man who enjoys all types of media and who also dates a lot I don't think we should look at media as a representation of romance. Romance itself is very chaotic. If I write a story based off of my romantic Adventures from my perspective, not everybody is going to agree. Both romance cater to men and women is heavy with a lot of tropes and just downright fantasy elements that are very problematic. But that's only if you don't really experienced it