I TOTALLY forgot to mention this in the video (and I feel so bad about it DX) BUT the design of magical girl Ladybug is by Chlogami on Instagram. Please check her out when you get the chance! I'll link her Instagram in the description ^_^
I completely agree with u Aloubell. Honestly because of how things are going, I chose to leave the show early before season 2 but I know what happens cuz of CZcams but still it sucks that Marinette isn't called out on her behavior and it's not a good example of how people should handle love or relationships in general.
(Sorry for all the miss sell 😣) Tho I 100% agree with you I still think that the friends don't really agree with Mary on her upseshin because in the episode of risk shadowmoth do say risk making people take action how they normally wouldn't take
It could work as a horrible flaw that she and Chat work through together through companionship and learning how to be in a stable proper relationship and to love themselves and ofcourse have the other character call them out on it
Please find YHWH Elohim and keep the commandments in Exodus 20 and Leviticus 11 Please read Exodus 20 and pray for forgiveness. 2nd Corinthians 5:17 “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!” [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:37- 40 Please read the book of Jonah, Matthew, Exodus you'll have the information you need.❤️❤️💐💐🌈🌈 Exodus 20 Leviticus 11
The key thing wrong with mlb’s writing is consequence. There is no consequences for Marinette’s behavior Theres practically no lasting consequences *for anything*
This! It's like they want to be story driven but with self-contained episodes and that just doesn't work the way they're doing it. It's possible to have a story driven series with self-contained episodes but you can't just reset the characters to basically square 1 after almost every episode. If the story's progressing, the characters should be developing in some way. Stuff should stick past the episode(s) it comes up in. It's not a good thing that S4 Adrien and S1 are almost the exact same. I think Adventure Time is a pretty good example of how to do that right and maybe even Regular Show.
@@TheArtisticAloubell Support the fan content- I listened to an audio fic that accomplished the reveal in like 3 chapters. Fans do the canon better, and even though you’re not a miraculous ladybug channel, you’ve got some great ideas!
I believe that the creepy obsession with Marinette and Adrian and their superhero personas could work IF IT WAS WRITTEN BETTER. Boundaries and actually not putting your love interest on a pedestal is very much needed for teenagers and even small children to understand and grasp lest they end up like Marinette and then get restraining orders placed on them and they can develop better friendships and relationships by talking with associates of the person that they like and even learn these much needed lessons from them and become better citizens. The way it is now in Miraculous is NOT HEALTHY AND FUNCTIONAL and I do hope that it can be addressed and focused on more in S5. Thank you for making this video Aloubell and I'm glad that I could pitch in and help out with the filling in on Mary's flagrant crimes of 'passion' if you will. 💌💌
@@ZanyCartoons Something like that or Alya actually trying to rein in her creepy like tendencies as her BEST FRIEND and try to help her have a normalized friendship with Adiran before making any romantic moves towards him
@@EnigmaPrince101 Marinette needs to stop surrounding herself with yes men and make friends that will tell her things that she doesn't like and she needs to see Adrien as a person not a prize she can win.
This reminds me that I heard about fanfic, which made "memorizing schedule" a little less creepy. A little. The idea was that Mari know schedules of ALL of her friends and took role of "time keeper". It was explained as something she catch up from her mother, who had time control obsession, because of her work and chinese style of education. So Marinette use this habit to keep everything in place and watch over her friends plans. So there was scene like: Marinette - "Juleka should you have a date with Rose in ten minutes?" Juleka - "Oh, crap. You're right! Thenks!" And she storm out. It's still creepy as a concept but less creepy than memorising just schedule of one boy, who gave her umbrella.
thats basically what I did in school XD For my crush, well we talked and he mentioned he had something every monday and i just..memorized it. No creepy stalker behaviour here, just me memorizing things XD And then later in high school I understood how our schedule worked so when I had my advanced courses I knew everyone had one and then I just needed to know a bit about the genereal coourses my friends took and was able to figure out which course they had next. One of my friends even called me out for being creepy and a stalker which I turned down and said I only memorize what you and others told me and then put one and one together. Ant it never went further than telling them what they had next so I think no one was harmed by this XD
Please find YHWH Elohim and keep the commandments in Exodus 20 and Leviticus 11 Please read Exodus 20 and pray for forgiveness. 2nd Corinthians 5:17 “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!” [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:37- 40 Please read the book of Jonah, Matthew, Exodus you'll have the information you need.❤️❤️💐💐🌈🌈 Exodus 20 Leviticus 11
@@Lolirock971I love the fact that you're spreading word about the Lord, I really do but putting in spaces where it isn't related to him makes people dislike/annoyed and less likely to even give the Bible a chance, maybe you can make videos about Bible verses or you reading the Bible? So that way more people can see them and get the full experience rather then just get a single verse?
💌 I agree that the show's framing is really the problem here. Marinette as a character feels(baring the bad-humor extremes) is really a good one who could have been used well, but the show chooses to frame her as right in every situation. The worst she can be is 'uninformed/mistaken' but never for long and never with any kind of real repercussions. It limits her and makes people slap the 'Mary Sue' label on her, which is a shame.
The way I see it is shes more or less a mary sue based on each individual episode rather than her character in the whole show due to the episodes almost never connecting to the point of the characters seemingly doing complete 180s of what they originally believed or decided to do. One episode it will seem like she really learned something with genuine problems she solved and the next shes breaking into adriens house to ruin a date with adrien and kagami. It even applies to the side characters. One episode the mayor (i forgot how to spell his name) is a misunderstood dad who wants whats best for his family, even giving up his dream to be with them, the next he’s giving an earful to anyone and everyone in the classroom because someone stole chloes precious braclet, even going as far as firing anyone he can that says no. Its actually pretty jarring.
Please find YHWH Elohim and keep the commandments in Exodus 20 and Leviticus 11 Please read Exodus 20 and pray for forgiveness. 2nd Corinthians 5:17 “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!” [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:37- 40 Please read the book of Jonah, Matthew, Exodus you'll have the information you need.❤️❤️💐💐🌈🌈 Exodus 20 Leviticus 11
Another route the writers could take with Marionette’s behavior is go the Hey Arnold route. When mentioning the stalkerish behavior from Ladybug, it reminded me of Helga. The difference is that Helga is called out for her behavior (and by Arnold no less) and throughout the show progresses and learns healthier ways of showing her affections. On the other side, Arnold learns about Helga’s affections before she confessed in the Hey Arnold movie and at first thinks the idea is a nightmare, but slowly begins softening up to the idea as Helga begins showing through her actions to genuinely care for him. Into the Jungle is what highlights how far the two have come from the first season of the show with Arnold now being patient and understanding and Helga dropping the bullying tactics and growing closer to Arnold in more healthy ways such as walking to school together and talking. Helga still has issues she has to deal with, but Arnold sees that the both of them are growing and knows Helga will get better over time as his grandmother also started as a toxic person as a child but grew better over time. Perhaps, instead of Ladybug’s and Cat’s behavior being encouraged (mostly Ladybug’s), both can be called out by each other. Ladybug calling out Cat for his creepiness and Adrian calling out Marionette for her behavior. Over time, the love square can come to a full circle with Ladybug growing soft for Cat’s improvement and loyalty towards her and Adrian also growing soft for Marionette’s improvement and genuine love for him. Over time, they begin connecting the dots of their secret identities as they progress and get to know each other as heroes and their secret identities. Instead of a love confession (since they already know who is in love with whom) they confess each other’s identities and knowledge of the other’s. From there, they kiss and become an official couple. The two can still be creepy and get together in the end, but do so with progression and learning to use healthy ways of showing their affections instead of creepy shit.
I love Helga! She is one of my favorite cartoon characters of all time x3 I did have her in mind when making this video. I was gonna talk about her, but I think she deserves her own video x3 Great points! X3
Hey Arnold is such a good written show in comparison to MLB and like... it's just a good show. And I liked how they took the route of not making every other Arnold's love interest just a wicked witch or smth like that - every time Helga tried to sabotage Arnold and his chances with another girl (Ruth or Lila), *she* was the bad guy. The girls were also not just a part of a plot device for Helga and Arnold to get together - with Ruth he himself realized she just wasn't someone he always thought she was, and with Lila it was... difficult, but she in fact didn't "like like" Arnold. She even guessed about Helga liking Arnold and has given her the role of a Juliet in the school play. That was literally so cool about Hey Arnold that every character, even the minor one, got some development and an episode to shine.
Awesome! I hope to see that video, if only as an example of another way MLB can use Marionette’s and Cat’s creepiness, while still setting them up to be together. I get the feeling the writers had intended on getting Cat and Ladybug to get together through hell or high water, so if that is what they want, going the Hey Arnold route is the best way to go.
That list of creepy things at the beginning was just wow, also if this was a more mature show for older audiences she would definitely be the yandere killing girls in the backroom
Seriously though as someone who's watched yandere simulator and a lot of gotcha I compare her sometimes to a yandere like a low-key watered down one. Like she seems a little bit similar to yandere Chan.
you know those girls in school that have celebrity crushes that say intense things like " hes my husband"or "hes so perfect hes the only man for me" Marinette is the living being that represents all those girls but if they could have the opportunities to live out their weird fantasies
Low-key Kagami is the best character for the simple fact she admitted her flaws in Risk (I think) when she called Adrien and told him he needs to stand up for himself
Yeah. Even if they didn't plan to have her as Adrien's end game. Both Kagami could be what helps grows balances his character. A sort of secondary unofficial mentor/friend. Kagami is that one friend that gives him a reality check. The harsh, but still gentle words he NEEDS to hear. And to balance the relationship. He has her learn to loosen up a bit. And be a bit more selfish from time to time. Their dynamic is great.
Well, there's also the fact that she repeatedly picked up a Weapon whenever an Akuma showed up and dragged Adrien to safety, even though they weren't dating anymore. Do I need any *more* reason to ship these two? 😄 If Adrien *has* to get together with a blue haired Superheroine in a red and black Outfit.....why couldn't we let it be Ryuko? 🤔 I mean, she already has so many Similarities to Ladybug that I genuinely believed she was meant as a Red Herring to make Adrien believe he is actually dating Ladybug this entire time.
💌 love how you not only called out marinette's issues but also Adrien's issues. Maybe you can also do one on the increasly violent tendencies Adrien showed in season 4, like nearly murdering alya, that he never really got called out on, or the poor distribution of blame the show has.
@@nuclear_stardust Hack-San, he tried to cataclysm her when he first didn’t know that she was ladybugs’s substitute. He thought she was a akuma or sentimonster and attacked her, most people think cataclysm can kill someone.
@@Bubblegum_Bitter_Girlie I'm pretty sure it can based on what we've seen. Also even if he did think she was an akuma that would still be trying to kill the akuma victim since I don't think we even saw him look for an item that could housed an akuma. As for sentimonster part he knows it only makes sentimonsters worse so why would he use it if he did think alya was a sentimonster?
@@naturegreenr4757 It was likely out of a fit of a temper tantrum and jealous rage. I’m not going to try and defend that though, because if it can kill he’s probably been told this.
Yeah wasn't there an episode where they made it clear to the audience that Chloe had just found out that Mari had a crush on Adrien? And then she just didn't act on it? Like even if it didn't end how Chloe would have wanted to, I see few reasons as to why she wouldn't tell him
@@TheArtisticAloubell I'm pretty sure if Adrien knew it would make it a whole lot easier for him to start catch feelings for Marinette since now he would be looking at her a different in a way and starting to like her back naturally instead of liking her because she's Ladybug.
I think the times Marinette took things too far could have been a learning opportunity since there are a lot of younger kids watching the show. 💌 I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as she gets called out but I think she rarely does...? if ever "The Missed Opportunity" section is so great, I'd rather watch that version than the real show! it genuinely sounds much more entertaining as well
Marinette's writing can become the most best character out of her own 'cringy' characteristics only, she has potential. Every human being has flaws and has it's ups and downs, embarrassing moments and so much more. We can be rude to someone without knowing. Marinette not being able to talk to her crush is totally fine, it natural and it shouldn't be looked down upon. She had so many conversations with Adrien (serious ones, like in queen battle 3rd part, season 2 finale, etc) and that shows that yes, she can talk with Adrien just fine without fangirling. This creepy characteristic can develop as something where she was once like that but as she learns and grows and when people call her out for it ( expecting Luka, kagami, mostly alix, Lila, Adrien, nino,alya). After piling with responsibilities, she becomes angry that she didn't talk with Adrien or her friends and tikki calls her out. After the calling out, she works on herself and slowly but steadily put her obsession away which makes her confident. That's it, I hope poor Mari gets better writers. Edit: also calling Adrien out for his creepy tendencies to always not listen when someone says no can also work. You are great alou
Chat Noir is not at the same level of creepyness as Marinette solely because Chat doesn't have much opportunity to do so. Bc he can't know who Ladybug really is and how she lives or know much about her, unlike Marinette who does know Adrien and a big part of his life by seeing him at school everyday
In season 1, I can get pass the part of Marinette knowing Adrien's schedule as both cute and creepy, so I didn't mind much. In season 2, again I could get pass her watching on repeat intently on the perfume commercial Adrien was on and even having tons of pictures of him, I didn't mind that either. But then season 3 and 4, made her crush look utterly crazy stalker like and unhealthy, especially the Wax and Pillow scene, I mean come on what kind of message does that give to girls and boys that it's completely normal for you to stalk your crush, smell the places they sleep or sat, and sabotage their chances of finding love with other people Look I get it I had a crush too, amd I would watch him from afar hoping he notice me, but I didn't follow the guy into his house, or bathroom or even invite myself into his group of friends. So yeah I seriously don't like Marinette's crush and her actions towards Adrien, they are no longer cute anymore. It all went out the window the moment season 3 came out. I'm so glad you made this video, it is so satisfying to see someone else agreeing that Marinette's crush is 100% creepy May God bless you 🙏🏽
Yeah I agree seasons 1 and 2 are still a little bit weird but not extremely weird to where you would say it's psychopathic. Like the thing she did in season 1 and 2 are things you would normally see crushing girls do in TV shows like Johnny test (edit) oh and the fairly odd parents or like one of my OCS who stalks the other one in a psychopathic way but it's more funny.
Honestly the whole schedule thing could easily be fixed if she either Had everyone's schedules , showing she's just like that with everyone n its not done for special, creepy reasons Or If they made it clear she made it because she was worried for Adrien's mental health with all he does everyday and wanted to find the right times to be able to do little things like give him snacks or just go for a small chat to make sure he's okay - aka, show it more as an act of kindness/sympathy/want to help and not just "when he's available for me to confess my love to"
"The writers don't seem to be self aware enough to have repercussions for the behavior or have them grow out of it in time." I paraphrased but 100% agree. Sitting through this latest season where Marinette gets no repercussions and doesn't feel even a little remorse when she does awful things, like throw cat noir in the trash, or almost end the world (Ephemeral) is just really unrealistic and unsettling. Not just the friend group, even the adults seem to enable this behavior. Like the mom wouldn't notice all those pictures of Adrien in Mari's room and have a chat with her about it? Do they not know what moms do?? Marinette almost ends the world in Ephemeral, and Master Suhan says she's the best guardian at the end. What?? 💌💌
In defense for the chat trashing I think she was overall (about 65%) in the right there as she already had made it incredibly clear to him MANY times she doesn't want to be in a relationship with him like that, and also made it very obvious to him that the article thing abt them being together upset her. But he tried to keep insisting on the opposite of what she wanted, watching and being fully aware of how it made her feel. And during a battle too- You don't feel remorse for snapping back when someone's trying to put you in uncomfortable situations- they were both in the wrong in that instance at least, Chat could've avoided that happening if he just cared more about her feelings and less about smth that she made clear she didn't want at the time
Something I noticed in the 4th season was that Adrien actually did have an episode where Ladybug finally snapped at his behavior when he kept focusing on her instead of the fight they were in. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but it's definitely annoying that Adrien seems to get more (deserved) criticism in the show for his actions while Marinette's are not only encouraged, but even sometimes seen as a good thing. Like when Kagami said Marinette was right for Adrien since she knows his schedule for the next 3 years by heart.
I need at least one character to tell Marinette she is being creepy, preferably someone in her friend group. Also,love that you mentioned Toradora,love that anime!
Alix did mention Marinette was being creepy to Rose, who agreed and asked wasn't Marinette being romantic? 🤦♀️ This happened in Gigantitan, which was a whole problem in and of itself.
Same but sadly its literally her friends who are the ones encouraging it They all know what she does, and how far she does, and they ENCOURAGE her to act like this even when she herself is against her behaviors If anyone should confront her about this without being a gaslighty friend, it should be her mom, Adrien, her dad, chat noir, or even Zoey could work tbh-
Funnily enough, a Reviewer on the Internet kinda made a Parody of this. Yrsina Pestis and Pink Salmon fight for Truth, Love and Justice and protect Paris from the Oni that the villainous Eaglehawk sends out to steal their magical Jewelry. 😄
Finally! Someone acknowledged it was Mari's fault for fu and the s3 holders getting discovered and for pushing Chloe's descent to evil. Because I've never heard or seen anyone talking or acknowledging that, if it wasn't for her jealousy and obsession, we would've gotten a better season finale. Honestly it's Mari's fault for all of that but I just never see anyone talk about that. So thank you again for acknowledging it, and also her other offenses.
Honestly even Marinette herself acknowledges it so I think that's why no one includes that in things Because everything else she does goes unacknowledged by the show
💌 I feel like charecters with stalkerish tendencies could work with three things: 1. As long as it's not over the top and genuinely makes the audience uncomfortable and hate the character 2. As long as there is a justified reason for it like somthing that happend in the past 3. As long as others acknowledge said charecters weirdness and help them calm down there tendencies or make them have no stalker tendencies at all Keep in mind this is my opinion and your entitled to your own.
Ok but when the freaking police officer got involved to commit a felony "In the name of love" that's where I was officially flabbergasted. Good on you for watching as little as the show as possible! Biggest regret of my life.
honestly, that’s what i wished the show did. mari’s creepy behaviour wouldn’t have bothered me as much if it was properly addressed and actively called out. chat’s behaviour annoys me less bc at least he gets reprimanded in canon, and (slowly) learns from it. with mari though, people enable it, which i’ve always found weird?? how is chat’s actions not okay but mari’s, who are far worse, played for laughs?? and i think that the creator just loves mari too much to think that she can do any wrong (yall remember when Santa Claus said she was #1 on the nice list?? yeah) so that’s never gonna go anywhere.
Yeah and at least with cat it's more tame all it is is photos and just kind of wanting to constantly date her. Not like being super obsessive like Marinette is.
@@ShumaiTheDetective cat noir or Marinette ? Yeah but like the writers need to choose something they can't have her or him wanting all free because that's not possible and if it is it's creepy.
I agree... there was a time when Alya tells her that Chat Noir was indeed annoying, I find it weird she doesn't say anything about Marinette being creepy
Honestly, with the way Marinette loves Adrien, it's kinda like a fangirl crushing on her favorite idol and I can honestly see that. That even if (perhaps) Marinette's feelings are for real, her actions are like one of a creepy/stalker fangirl. Which honestly is also not right. I would agree that her actions would work if her actions were called out and/or she learns that it's not ok. Unfortunately, in miraculous style, the only no she's ever gotten was from part 1 of season 4's finale... I just don't understand that. The one time she's been told no by anyone was when Adrien tells her the truth about how he's tired of modeling and just wants out of it and when Marinette tries to tell her friends they shut her down because of either jealousy of Lila or that they just don't believe Adrien wouldn't say that 😒
As for Adrien/Chat Noir... while I agree that his actions aren't the greatest, one thing I'm annoyed with is that like in one of the comments, Adrien only loving Marinette because she's ladybug. Both with Chat Blanc and Ephemeral, Adrien only loved her because she's Ladybug. That just doesn't sit right with me. One great thing that I loved with Ephemeral was Marinette learning to love both sides of Adrien. Adrien, however, doesn't get explored like that and just loves Marinette just because of his love for Ladybug. That just peeves me off!
I just want their love for each other in the love square to be explored better. If Marinette/Ladybug and Adrien/Chat Noir are gonna be the endgame couple, then like Marinette in Ephemeral, Adrien needs to love Marinette for both sides of her instead of just because she's ladybug. Yes, both their creepiness needs to be controlled better, but Adrien's love for Marinette is just unrealistic to me. It's why I love MariChat. It's cause they're able to be their better selves with each other is what makes the ship so great. They might not see each other in a romantic way, but they get to know each other for who they are and away from their creepy/stalker ways towards their love interests.
*THIS.* This one track minded *obsession* with Adrien is what Marinette *needs* to grow out of. (Same with Chat Noir too, we just see Marinette a lot more) It's one of the reasons I like Strike Back so much. It was undeniable proof to Marinette that her refusal to see Adrien as anything other than perfect is a bad thing and, *oh boy* does she *pay* for it. My hope for Season 5 is that she *finally* realizes her feelings, specifically how she acts on her feelings, for Adrien does more harm than good and lets go of her crush on him. And start to appreciate/ fall for Chat Noir because despite his flaws, his love and dedication for her is real. Also, thanks for mentioning me in the video, Aloubell. You're awesome, too. And that also goes for anyone who's reading this!🥰 💌
Unpopular opinion, if the "screws over friend out of tournament" is referring to Max and the video game thing, I would argue against that. Yes, she only joined to be with Adrien, but she won against Max fairly. She didn't cheat, she was just the better player. Max "practicing for months and really looked forward to completing" doesn't change the fact he lost (fairly and twice, to Marinette & Adrien) in the selection round. That was more Max being a sour loser than anything else. Also *love letter thing*
To possibly add to this, i swear when i rewatched that episode, Max was using his glasses to look up button combos during the fights (unless im remembering completely wrong. And if that was actually the case, then Max was cheating and didnt deserve to join the tournament. (Again i could be remembering that scene completely wrong. )
Not to mention that max, for literally no reason, automatically went to assuming Marinette didn't know the game or how to play when she rather confidently walked up to participate for smth that wasnt mandatory? I was really thrown off by that move on Max's part-
I'm always up for hearing how something could work if well written so although I'm wary, I trust you Aloe! Edit: Totally agree! I think you're absolutely right in thinking that Miraculous could use Mari and Adrien's creepy and stalkerish tendencies to its advantage. They should have either toned it down and called it out or had them grow out of it over time because as it stands, both of them are going to end up getting their way whether they learn that their behavior is wrong or not and potentially even *_because_* of their bad behavior.
I made a character based of Instagram, as well as Marinette Instagram bird, like Marinette, stalks her crush, but uses a Stand to spy on him. I was planning this character to be Marinette, but actually learns, as in she eventually realizes about how her stalking tendencies are unhealthy and wrong.
Lmao I totally lost it when you've listed Marinette's creepy behaviors🤣 Girl, you could discover a new element or invent time travel with all the time you spent on that list :D
I wouldn’t really count “Mari joining the fencing club for Adrien” as stalking IF it wasn’t for the soul purpose of stalking him. It’s one thing for you to join a club because you wanna indulge yourself in your crush’s interests cus you wanna see why they like it so much buuut obvi this ain’t the case-
Marinette's stalker behavior could have worked if it was portrayed as a character flaw and not a character trait. The key differences between character flaws and character traits is that character flaws are usually frowned upon according to common moral standards, and can be overcome, while character traits are aspects of a character that should and are embraced proudly. For example, a character flaw is being a hypocrite, bullying someone, and failing to get things done on time, while a character trait is being a great artist, having a beautiful singing voice, and having an altruistic heart. Thomas Astruc genuinely believes in his narcissistic delusions that Marinette being a creepy stalker is an actual character trait, which is beyond disturbing, because the only people who I think think that stalking is okay are people who stalk other people themselves, which if you think about it, could put you on an FBI list of some sort. I am unconvinced that it's ignorance, and I believe that this man genuinely does not care at all about the fans' concerns over this issue. The extremely few exceptions are yandere characters, but Marinette is not portrayed as a yandere, which makes it worse. Besides, we have people who are being stalked in real life, so it hits home for all yhe wrong reasons. Marinette is a Mary Sue, through and through, but without the Lisa Frank looks, which is extremely problematic, not to mention a bad influence to children, who are smarter than we give thrm credit for.
I don’t think Marinette actually likes Adrien but likes the idea of him. Same with Adrien liking the idea of Ladybug. Both are so obsessed with this idea of the others perfect image that they’re blinded by reality
Them learning about boundaries (I think I write that wrong) would create more moments when they get closer to each other, and it could be really romantic. Nothing more romantic than two people respecting the other, what they say, want, and how they developpe healthy communication. It could even lead to funny situations.
That could work but the only problem is that the writers are probably too cocky to do that. Hopefully they AT LEAST make Cat Noir and Marinette less obsessed. 💌
Yeah the writer stink like how Chloe was starting to have her redemption and now she's just pushed back into the super mean girl obstacle slot again. People might hate me but I don't really like Zoe she feels randomly placed and sort of feels like a pick me hated child from gacha.
I highly doubt the writers will allow Mari and Adrien to learn that they have problems and change. In season 1, it was tame and opened the door for growth, but after 4 seasons of the same formula, it seems impossible for any genuine change outside of season finale's to actually be implemented (and done well). Mari's tried to give up on her crush on Adrien multiple times but always resets by the next episode, she also learned that he's in love with someone else, cries about it, and then goes right back to her stalker stuff, Adrigami and Lukanette only became canon for basically a single episode (and Luka and Kagami proceed to go on about how Mari and Adrien are "meant for each other"). And then there's the fact that each time MAri and Adrien learn each other's identities and begin to date, the world ends. The writers keep pushing for Adrienette being the perfect couple, but constantly demonstrate how it's both toxic and world ending. To me, I don't see any way for season 5 to properly change anything. The only way I think it could is if there are no filler episodes and a season long subplot of Marinette and Adrien realizing their behaviours are toxic and make genuine changes that last longer than the final 3 minutes of an episode (without resetting the characters)
oh this video aged perfectly. 1:26 they made this the moment adrien fell in love with her. the cringiest, creepiest moment in the show that even we the fandom cant watch because Its That Bad.........is canonically important. when we say this show is a garbage fire we meant it
Honestly, while marinette is creepy for no reason, I find Adrien’s obsession and behavior to at the very least make sense. He loves LB, because she was the first person he worked with and she’s the first person to trust him which is something he cherishes. I’m not condoning or defending his actions either, I most certainly didn’t condone or defend Helga Pataki’s actions (I have Hey Arnold on one of the Nick channels and fell in love with it), but Helga’s reasons are explored more as to WHY she is obsessed with Arnold and why she is in love with him. And there’s more to her character and her behavior than just her love for Arnold for being cute and nice. Unlike marinette who fell in love with Adrien because of an umbrella. I seriously thought that was French thing or something lol. Helga was neglected by her parents who adored and favored Olga while they overlook Helga (and weren’t afraid to show it) and even call her Olga by mistake from time to time and don’t even know how old their own daughter is. No one has ever noticed her, not once, accept for Arnold. He was the only one to ever show kindness towards Helga and see her and BOOM! She’s in love with him. And when she was fawning over Arnold during snack time in preschool, she was bullied for simply showing affection, something she was never allowed to have or show with her family (her parents because they’re neglectful and her sister because she’s the fav golden child), she gets defensive and becomes the bully. While this doesn’t excuse Helga’s outburst and behavior for the majority of the show especially towards Arnold, you can’t blame her entirely and it makes sense as to why she does what she does. Though trying to kill the parrot in that one episode was going waaayyy too far especially since the poor bird is only repeating words and sounds it hears not understanding the meaning behind them. If marinette had somewhat similar reasons, I’d let it slide as long as it’s handled well and the behavior was acknowledged as unacceptable and creepy. I see Adrien as a more mild mannered, sweet and gentle version of Helga Pataki. Just like Helga, Adrien has known mainly toxic relationships for the majority of his life from his dad, Chloe, and even if I don’t think Emile is as bad as Gabriel, I don’t think she’s any better since she had expectations for her son too since Adrien is the human equivalent of a sentimonster (though I don’t believe him to be a sentimonster) who will be whatever his parents, keyword: PARENTS, want him to be. And it doesn’t help that his friends not only enable Marinette’s behavior, but they also help set him up with his stalker. Yuck. Also, my boy is receiving the Chloe treatment by the creator. Thomas hates Chloe since she’s modeled after his childhood bully therefore she’s “irredeemable”, and he doesn’t care much for Adrien when making him dumb and useless and irrational and things like that because he hates fans wanting more of Adrien when Mari is the MC while childishly saying, “is it so hard to allow the female to lead?” Never mind is mainly FEMALES who wanted more of Adrien which sounds very sexist of him to say. He even defends Marinette’s stalker, boarder-line yandere behavior by listing reasons as to why she’s not a creep or a stalker which sounds like he describing the exact behaviors but just making up excuses for a criminal. Good thing he’s not a lawyer. But yeah, it’s not the behaviors that’s the problem, it’s the way they are never acknowledged as bad behaviors or corrected which would allow the character(s) to learn and grow from them. Kind of like how I don’t mind dark, serious, and mature content being placed in children shows just as long as they’re there to point out what’s bad and how to handle it. And there’s nothing wrong with characters behaviors being acknowledged as bad. We can like characters and admit they did a bad thing or in the wrong. I do it all the time even with Adrien my favorite character. I’ve had favorites who made me feel infuriated loads of times, and even make me wish I could smack some sense into them. Why is it that Thomas thinks that loving a character or a main character means they have to be a Mary Sue who can get away with anything/everything through the powers of deus ex machina and plot convenience. Oh right, because a female lead has to be mollycoddled by the narrative because I guess he believes girls are that weak/soft, and need to be treated like babies made of glass. In other words, females should be babied, and he has the audacity to say our critiques are misogynistic and bullying? He calls himself a feminist and that’s the reason, in his mindset, that they should get away with this long list of crimes and treat them as “normal teen girl behavior”, while getting flirty, kissy and the other things cat noir did is, while yes still unacceptable behavior, but considered worse crimes/behavior than what Marinette has ever done. And here I’m thinking feminism is about equality. Speaking of “normal teen girl behavior”, just because they’re are teen girls who might behave creepily, lack boundaries and develop stalker/creep behavior, that doesn’t mean it’s “normal teen girl behavior”. That’s like saying killing and stealing is common so it must be morally right. Or smoking and drinking is common so it must be healthy. Maybe if Marinette was just behaving in the same manner as Mei from Turning Red and kept it at that level of obsession, that would be considered normal. Harmless even. Funny thing, they call Mei “thirsty” when someone like Marinette exists. 😅That girl got powers but didn’t necessarily abused them to do illegal things (well she did get into the concert using her powers but at least it wasn’t to break into someone’s home invading their privacy and disrespecting boundaries). Like okay, admiring them from afar, okay. Writing poems, fine. Drawing doujinshi style pictures with you and your crush, cute. Build a shrine, uh…..suuure. Still would be pretty tame compared to everything else she did. And yeah, another problem with Adrien and Marinette’s love for each other is they BOTH can’t love the other unless they’re a somebody to the world. Adrien won’t love Marinette unless she’s LB, and Marinette won’t love Chat Noir unless he’s the perfect, gorgeous, popular Adrien Agreste. So both of them have pretty shallow reasons to like each other. At the very least, I can believe Adrien might like Marinette with or without LB. Marinette on the other hand fell in love with Cat Walker when he was being perfect like how Adrien behaves around his father which leaves me to believe she only likes the idea of Adrien rather than the real Adrien. Adrien just wants to be fun, silly and be a teenager but he’s acting like a perfect adult like how his father expects which is the part marinette loves about him. That’s disturbing. I mean, she wanted Chat Noir back not because she missed him, but because Cat Walker was “too perfect”. I know people say that Adrien was selfish in Kuro Neko, but if there’s anything I’ve learned from therapy is that it is okay to be selfish sometimes. While sacrifices and heroic feats are admirable, they aren’t something that should be expected of you especially if you’re in toxic/abusive relationships with a family or a friend, because you matter-you’re important- and should just take care of yourself. I said the same things when Metroman from Megamind decided he didn’t want to be a hero anymore, and his reasons were simple and the fact that Adrien is a child who has too much expectations from his dad and is constantly pushed away, neglected, kept in the dark, gaslit, mistreated, put down, belittled, and barely understands what a healthy relationship should be-it’s understandable why he would be a bit selfish and behave the way he does. Again, not to hide his behavior behind excuses but at the very least it explains it. Idk. I’m not good at explaining things. That’s just my take. But, I agree how these behaviors could work as they work through their problems together. Great video as always. I just wish we can get these kids a therapist like the one from Helga on the Couch.
Oh my gosh you wrote like a whole essay. I agree with the beginning part when you call out Marinette people use Adrian as a counter argument when it doesn't make sense because he's definitely not worse than her and it's sort of makes more sense.
Like seriously how are you comparing him to Marinette he has some photos and just wants to date her and can be a little bit weird at times. UNLIKE MARINETTE WHERE SHE'S SOMEWHAT LIKE A PSYCHOPATH.
@@Office_chair lol yeah I do tend to get carried away. 😅 but yeah, I get so sick of the counter arguments. I don’t mind Adrien being flawed and called out for it, but comparing him to Mari when some of the stuff he does is tame compared to her just sickens me. It’s normal to have pictures of your crush and it’s hard getting over your crush when you cherish them for good reasons. Mari was just offered an umbrella by a nice, cute boy and she’s OBSESSED. Seriously I didn’t get that, and I legit asked, “is this a French people thing and I’m just not getting it or what?” Even if he did attempt to kiss her without consent, he at least takes ‘no’ for an answer. Cyrus the Great was starting to tick me off when he was okay with LB throwing Chat Noir in the trash and just straight up abusing him because that “makes sense” for her to do that for simply annoying her. So abuse is okay if it makes sense? What? Abuse is never okay regardless of the abusers emotions or motives. And because she’s just super annoyed? Bruh. I never so much as raised a hand towards a guy who was worse than Chat, and only threatened to pepper spray my stalker (who’s like Mari) if they tried anything non consensual. But if the roles reversed, people would lose it. If he got defensive because he didn’t feel safe, there would be a riot. Boys get harassed by girls in tv shows all the time, and it just makes me wish they were allowed to pepper spray them. You know what does make sense? A restraining order.
@@ashebennett7726 seriously though like I know crushes happen in the randomest ways but like an umbrella ? By this guy that you probably seen for like the past week or two ?
@@ashebennett7726 and yeah ladybug isn't exactly the nicest partner to cat noir anymore honestly I understand him feeling like he's replace or second best. SINCE APPARENTLY LADYBUG CAN SUMMON ANYTHING NOW.
The problem with both Marinette’s creepiness and Chats pushiness is that the show mostly resets at the end of each episode (bar a simple over arching arc). So instead of these flaws being a good story telling devices that can be flaws to actually corrected or addressed, they are used as jokes and waved off. And at least they have had an episode or two where Chat was confronted about his creepiness. The lessons learnt from those are not existent as the writers have a serious problem with development of anything other than powers or miraculous’. Marinette is often encouraged and when something bad does happen it tends to be something related to a less problematic behaviour (ditching an event over stealing Adrian’s property) But seriously this is a really bad example to kids. I watch this show with my niece and I have had to had a talk about this being wrong on both sides. She’s too young to have any serious crushes but old enough to start asking questions. Was fun telling her that no, mummy did not. Once again, I think the show is trying to play is themes and ideas that are too mature or complex to the target audience (Stalking which has a lot of legal and mental health related problems, never mind the fact that Adrien is famous so may actually have issues with this before. And harassment which so has mental health and legal issues) but instead of either removing it, or simplifying the solution to something appropriate (simply for Marinette having a character tell her that is wrong and would actually upset Adrien if he knew as minimum) they have played it off as either laughs or just ignored that it’s actually there
The show will ALWAYS try to push these two together because they are self aware to have them with someone else because they ended up breaking up the alternative couples (Mari x Luka and Adrien x Kagami) because they shoving the narrative that these two are "meant to be" when in reality Mari would be seen as the creepy fan and would be the villain. But no she buts in where she doesn't belong in general (when Chloe ask Audrey "why she doesn't love her" and sees the mother and daughter being awkward and instead of leaving them alone and giving Chloe ACTUAL FUCKING DEVELOPMENT and instead buts in and eventually inadvertently causing her character regression by the end of season three. This is my favorite characters in Miraculous are Juleka and Rose and Sent-Adrien and Creepy-nette.
So many things that Mari did wrong, all of her creepiness. And somehow it’s normalized, and nobody would actually care. The would just sigh and look at her as if it was actually normal and people always do this. 💀(💌) Btw I absolutely love your art! And the points and insight you made throughout the video! ^^
i think the base problem is that the show doesn't aknowledge the creepiness, like you CAN write a creepy character but a ton of people usually in those shows are like "bruh this ain't good" at least on some levels, and most shows keep it pg aka not letting the obsessive one sniff stuff from his crush
As an avid watcher of the show, I agree with everything you’re saying. I hate to admit it, but the healthiest option is that Adrienette doesn’t happen. As much as I want it to, I know the writers are not smart enough to work them through their flaws in a way for them to healthily get together. On that note, adrienette is confirmed to be endgame, so let’s see what unhealthy, obsessive and co-dependant relationship is formed from the ashes of what once was potential. *sigh* This show is my Riverdale.
I think it could work as long as she doesn’t get TOO Creepy, like she did in the show. She can be a little obsessed, but stalker stuff is crossing the line. Also her “problem” should be treated like an actual issue or flaw. She needs to at least feel a little bit of guilt for doing something wrong for Adrien (take embarrassing Lila as an example) somewhere in she show. And I think the friends should get more concerned instead of just helping her. Like when she had a crush on Adrien at the start they were not concerned, but the friends get more and more concerned the more creepy Marinette gets.
well alya called marinette insane alex called her creppy tikki called her out for not being able to control her emtions adrien called her out in voplina and the chrismas special kagami called her out for hesting and being over the top plagg called her out in kuro neko she call herself out a lot
Fair enough! Though to be fair, I was overgeneralizing a bit in my video. Not EVERYONE with a crush does something crazy. Some people are really inactive while others keep it cool and collected.
@@TheArtisticAloubell phew okeh, good to know that not all people get all worked up over someone else. Nice video by the way, analysis was pretty thorough in my opinion
While I love Kagami and would genuinely love to see her in a healthy relationship with Adrien, I really can't say the same for Luca. His only purpose for existing is to be Mari's second crush. Other than that there is absolutely nothing to him. He has no traits that a character needs, he's just another plot device to stir up drama. Mainly felt like bringing your attention to this since you say you don't plan on watching the whole show
Luka could use more development, for sure. But I do like how chill and considerate he is and how comfortable Mari is around him ^_^ From what I know about him, he isn't COMPLETELY bland as he does have his own interests and hobbies. Giving him a character arc would have been nice, though!
What I like about Cat Noir is that the show acknowledges and reprimands his bad behavior all of the time. I am not saying I like his behavior, but it is hard to complain about it when the show belittles him and his behavior every episode. It does it so much, I can’t complain about it anymore. Also, he does develop and get better. I feel bad more him because his relationship with Ladybug is so abusive. Ladybug abuses him many times and he is gets treated like a doormat. He can’t stand up for himself because she won’t let him. That is not a role model I would want to look up to. She is not even as loyal to her friends anymore which makes me mad because that was my favorite thing about her. Now she is straight narcissistic. Writers: stop only using only their bad traits instead of their good ones.
If everyone has consistent development that carried over across episodes, that would be great, but it seems like that's not always the case. Though I'm sure the show airing out of order doesn't help 😖
When you call Marinette out for being creepy many people use the counter argument that cat noir is too. Even though when you investigate it it's sort of falls through because at least he's not sniffing her things and doing just weird creepy s***. Like tomorrow remember he only has some pictures and try to date her.
Also yeah she isn't really loyal to her friends I said that on tiktok. That she only appears to be around her friends if they can be of use to get Adrian.
@@Office_chair i only do that so people don’t use it against me. I also don’t want to sound hypocritical accusing one person of being creepy and not the other. I also wanted to show how the show acknowledges Cat Noir’s bad behavior all of the time to the point we can’t even compare the two. Yes, i agree. He does develop and improves himself. I wish the writers did not play his two bad traits up to a hundred at times. And he is not as creepy as Marinette. Also, I cannot yell at a guy who changed everything about himself (shouldn’t have even been one time) to keep his miraculous or impress the person he likes. At that time, and every time before that, he has to prove he is good enough to fight alongside her as a partner. I can’t complain about someone after that.
Freaking thank you for also mentioning Chat Noir's bad traits too. Even though yes the reason behind Adrien's/Chat Noir's behavior makes more sense, but even so that doesn't mean it is any less messed up as you said. Just keep up my gurl.
I think it could’ve been interesting if Marinette’s stalking of Adrien ended with her accidentally discovering Gabriel is Hawkmoth. Then it would at least contribute to the plot. Make weakness a strength or something.
For some reason this reminds me about Abridged Kirito. He is a total asshole and a psychopath, Abridged Asuna too. But both of them eventually grow as people in a certain way, particularly with Yui. When Yui "died", they thought she thought that they didn't truly cared about her, when in actuality, they did. They faced consequences and learned. And I love both of them because of this evolution. Now I wonder how interesting would be to see Marinette and Adrien as full-on yanderes.
I tend to view Marinette's behaviour as the result of her ongoing inability to actually express her feelings to Adrien, and if she ever manages to actually spit it out, she'll probably get a lot better. Not instantly, of course, but she'd likely get better. The real problem is that they're both lead characters and cartoon teenagers, and as such are not permitted to have actual romantic/sexual relationships. This is not the writers' fault: teens in entertainment are required to be all but asexual.
I don't think them being teens in a kids show is keeping them from being a romantic couple. It's entirely the writing and what the show is going for. MANY shows do this thing with couples that they don't get together until like the final episode and the whole show is about the build up. HOWEVER, most other shows do the build up a lot better. It's not working for MLB so the reveal and confession just need to happen cuz its too drawn out. They can totally be a romantic couple and keep things innocent >__
There was a comment on another video about Ladybug which sums up the main flaw of this ship, in it, the person states that the people that the main duo love are lives as Marinette's in love with the Adrian persona he puts up for his father, but dislikes Car Noir which is the real him as when in costume, he can freely express himself. Meanwhile, Adrian loves Ladybug, which is the persona Marinette as that when she(for the most part) shoves her less desirable aspects into a box, but she can only do this because Ladybug doesn't have to interact with an Adrian on a daily basis. We know this because in Kuro Neko, when Cat Noir quits, he is 'replaced' with Cat Walker which is just Adrian acting more like his school persona, but by acting more like her crush, she could barely function-so much so that by the end of the episode she had him stop being Ladybug so that the old Cat Noir could return. She tries to claim her reason is that he's 'too perfect' but we all know it's because this girl can't function whenever there's a pretty boy around which I wished was explored as maybe she could question her feelings for Adrian if this new person can get similar responses from her without trying. Same thing with Adrian as he would(hopefully, he's not the brightest when it comes to social quos) could notice that Ladybug's finally starting to return some of his feelings, which was the whole point of his new persona, but then he'll also realize that she's not falling for the real him, she's falling for the fake Adrian-the one that acts however his father wants him too, which could make him question both her feelings and himself. This new thing in their relationship could be want pushes them towards Kagami and Luka respectively as Kagami wants Adrian to be more assertive, and confident in himself so he could seek her out for help in that which could lead to the two actually developing a positive romantic bond. Meanwhile, Marinette would go back to Luka as unlike Adrian who just sees her as a friend-he knows all her secrets, including that she's Ladybug, and still cares for her as a possible romantic interest. So he could be a good bet for a person she could turn to now that her confused about her true feelings. So in a way, the two possible love rivals for the duo would serve as safe harbors of a sort.
I'm so glad you pointed out Mari's enablers! For the longest time I couldn't place why I didn't like Marinette but would adore similar characters like Juvia from Fairy Tail, it made me feel like a hypocrite lol. But when I realize it was because the supporting character's lack of reaction to how problematic her behavior is, it was like oh...that makes sense. The fact that Mari's stalking/inappropriate behavior wasn't used as a gag or for comedy, just made the show too...wtf for me to watch anymore 😅
if you like charcters who are creppy in one way another like marcy but get called out marcy is codpendent on her friends so codpendent on her friends that she trapped them in another world and yes there are two other reasons for her doing that she is implsuive and doesnt like change but still and she tryied to excuse her actions and she is obssed with video games and even though she likes other things thats the only thing she focuses on earth but atleast its callled out which why i like marcy but with normorna she is creppy is obbssed with paline relys on paline for happness and none calls her out not even herself or her mom so if you like normorna your a hypocrite but if you dont and only like marcy and or other obssed charcter then you are not even marinette and adrien get called out more than her i like normorna dont get me wrong but i find her anoying and if you dont find her anoying then your a hypocrite but if you dont your not
I can see your point, it would have made the story much better. Too bad in cannon it isn't what happen. That the thing that made me drop this series. marinette action never get any criticism on being a creepy stalker, never get scolded for it either, despite what she is doing is morally wrong and disgusting! yet everyone cheers for her to keep doing it! so yeas I'm not going to bother with this series or ever finish it. Not going to waste my time on a creepy stalker that everyone support for no good reason.
I haven't watched it yet but what I guess you talk about is AKA what I would like to happen is just to get some development on her creepiness. Not just Marinette but Cat Noir too. Imagine: Adrien is getting ready for school when his Father calls him. Within seconds, Adrien rushes to him. He sees Natalie with a shocked face. Adrien is confused until he finally sees what they're looking at. There, we see Marinette having snuck into Adrien's house again, not knowing about the Camera that had recently been planted on the wall she usually climbs on. Adrien can not believe this. Gabriel tries to stop him, but Adrien insists on going to school and talking to Marinette himself. Marinette is chatting with Alya about her Ladyblog till Adrien walks in. Marinette blushes intensely and gathers the courage to wave at him. But instead of his usual "Hi Marinette!", he glares at her, shocking Marinette, Nino and Alya. Chloe notices this and giggles. "See, Dupain-Cheng! I knew Adrikins would come to his senses! Isn't that right, Adrikins?" Marinette looks at Adrien in disbelief. Adrien almost apologizes but then remembers the footage he saw, and keeps silent. Chloe laughs as tears flow down Marinette's cheeks and she rushes out of the classroom. (I don't care if her stalking gets resolved, I just want it to be acknowledged-)
Seriously though like there needs to be an acknowledgment like she's literally getting away with breaking into his house sniffing his items and obsessing over him and stalking him.
@@AlienFriend yeah at least in season 1 and maybe two it was more normalish like you would see that in shows like a Johnny test and the fairly odd parents. Or like my OC who stalks another one of my OCS but in a funny way.
what do the writers miss in the show? The scenes that Fu really talks and teaches Adrien, listen to what he can't express to anyone, even with Marienette, he has to be strict when she did bad things and make her a better person, from that she could get rid of her unhealthy obsession for Adrien. The biggest opportunity that the writers missed is Fu can be the connection for Mari and Adrien, so yeah this is why the show is getting down and down
I didn't mind Marinette's behaviour that much at first, because I thought it would be her having a crush on a famous boy and slowly realizing that he's a normal kid like her, and developing a healthy relationship. But nope, she just got a crush on a random guy from her class, and now stalking him. Plus the show keeps going on and there seems to be little to no consequences for her actions🤦♀️
In season 1, i thought her creepy side was good from a narrative standpoint. It allowed her to grow and develop as a character, but now it is annoying and frustrating. She never learned from it. She never evolved and that is the fault of the writers. Also, I used to love this character and now I hate her because she keeps upping the ante and becoming a worse person. I did do some weird stuff but as soon as I got a bad response from it, I never did it again. And it was third grade. I humiliated myself and kind of him, but it was only one day. Marinette does this and worse every single day. This is what I am frustrated with. Why take pictures if his ad next to the school he is in? You see him everyday. You have something better than a photo. Jeez. Even if she does get reprimanded, she just yells at them and doesn’t listen which makes me hate her more. I hate that I hate her because I used to love her and again, that is on the writers.
Yeah in season 1 and maybe two the creepiness wasn't that bad because you would see that with crushing girls like in Johnny test or like for fun with one of my OCS who stalks my other OC.
A lot of people tend to not like Marinette because of her being a stalker, for me, the reason why I don't like Marinette's character is because she ain't interesting enough for me to care. At least her stalker tendencies spark my interest in her character because I can see the character learning their mistakes in the future. Now she does learn some of her mistakes but it doesn't impact the story making it seem like she could get away with anything.
I honestly hope there will be more scenes with Marichat where they grow closer. Eventually, they would both grow close enough to tell each other about their true feelings- what they're doing (addressing the problem), and then the other would give advice (giving a solution to their problem). Maybe at first, they're reluctant to change- but over the course of half a season or perhaps even an entire season, they will find out that the others' advice is actually helpful. And then the writers can take one of two routes- one where they both realize that they're not good for each other, and while still being friends, they find a new partner, or the other where they end up together, in a non-problematic way. Honestly, for being adults, the MLB writers are pretty bad at writing dynamic characters. Like- why are Chat's problems (usually) addressed, but not Mari's in the show? I get it's supposed to be a 'feminist' series, but, um, we women should also be called out for our creepy behavior! And then, when stuff seems to be going well in the series, they pull a 180 and throw out all that potential! (i.e. Chloe's redemption arc)
Cat also does stop at times for a while and then Ladybug flirts with him so he starts again only for her to tell him to stop. So there is the annoying thing of Ladybug sending mix signals to him.
💌 I completely agree on your video having the Marinette and Adrien learning from their mistakes by people showing what makes a relationship healthy is for the show.
i personally thought that marinette's stalker-ish behaviors could lead to her turning to a complete villain and maybe even taking advantage of the fact that adrien's house is empty when there's a supervillain to explore his room (sort of similar to Cat Blanc). she could get punished/arrested for her behaviors and when explained everything on the news, adrien learns that he has some of the same behaviors and tries to grow and develop himself to be better while noticing the absence of ladybug, realizing her identity, and maybe completely moving on from her, finding a new love interest, a source of happiness, or just spending time with his friends to prove that not everyone finds joy in love. hawk moth could slowly work out the details of how adrien's mood was affected (before adrien's developement) and try to take time off of akumatizing others to accompany his son and help him the way he can. adrien can also find another source of happiness through his father if their relationship strengthens. gabriel/hawk moth could make a public apology to everyone in paris for his actions and work in community service, raising money for rebuilding things (like the damage the supervillain had done in paris during the nyc mlb movie if it connects to the tv show), etc. and maybe marinette could have some developement during her punishments idrk bsbasgvj but its a children's show so this wouldn't happen
i was way too shy to do literally anything about my middle school crush, to the point where i was embarrassed just to sit next to him. however, I must've been pretty obvious about how i felt because everyone knew i liked him, including him, and he certainly didn't feel the same way. i don't know how marinette has the audacity she does.
Tbh I hope the show give the characters proper development coz clearly both Adrien and Marinette need it badly coz I have the feeling that people will end up hating them even more if the characters doesn’t receive proper development
One of my friend used to crushes on a lot of guys in our middle school from time to time. Crazy thing is, they are all people whom I know one way or another. Hell, some of them are dudes in my classes. And she went real crazy, one time she gets moody because she saw her crush talk to a female classmates of his. I told her that's stupid to be jealous of and she calls me judgmental. She still does that, and whenever I point out something, she calls me judgmental. And I agrees with her, I tend to be a bit judgy.
Can we just take the time to appreciate how aloubell took the time to say everyone's name and I mean 188 people and for reading basicly every comment once again 188
This show is the reason I began having creepy tendencies as a kid. Since Marinette was my ‘idol’ and I never saw her in the wrong. Slowly adapting to her personality and creepiness (I was 8).Getting obsessive over people very easily . Which, I have been working on (I.e therapy, self-therapy) . Since, many classmates called me out on my creepiness . Like recording every single second of an event . Taking photos without consent (used my mom’s phone). But tbh, it also stems from my family problems and not wanting to forget happy memories or people. But, This show is what truly ignited it, since I remember copying marinette’s behavior as idolism.
Oh no DX Thank you for sharing your experience. It's very informative to see how this show and its decisions can affect people irl! I pray things are much better with you nowadays!
For me, don’t let her be a stalker nor have any creepy moments. Also, the fact that she nearly kissed a wax statue of Adrien, but wasn’t is awful. Imagine if a different version of Marinette and Adrien would react to this, she would say to her, “You’re disgusting.” Here is how I would write her. She and her family just moved from a small town in France all the way to Paris. In any case, she would be nervous and super anxious. Plus, the most tragic thing is that she had no friends back in her home town. However, after becoming Ladybug, she becomes more confident and less shy, however, she has a friend group consisting of Alya, Nino, Adrien, and later, Chloe. That is how I would write her.
“Don’t any of you tell me you didn’t do something stupid to get your crush to notice you or hang out with you when you were a teenager or adolescent.” Well I never did that because I’m aroace and never had any real crushes lol 💌. I can’t relate to these kinds of romantic subplots at all, but I still actually enjoy watching them and writing them a whole lot. A lot of other aspec people I’ve seen don’t like romance plots due to that inherit disconnect, but cute fluffy wholesome romances are something I love seeing in media. Unfortunately Miraculous can only give the illusion of cute wholesome romance while handling it in an extremely toxic and unhealthy way. I agree that these toxic behaviors from the main characters can be shown as long as it’s handled well and shown as flaws that the heroes need to overcome instead of positive traits like the show tries to make it seem like. I’ve heard that Thomas Astruc won’t be on the writing team for season 5, and he seems to be the main cause for a large portion of miraculous’ writing problems, so I hope that with him gone they’ll be able to save this shows writing and make the characters learn and grow. I doubt it’ll be that simple as to have everything magically fixed the moment he’s gone, but I think it’ll be good for the show. Honestly my biggest hope is that this show gets a reboot a few years down the line and is remade from the ground up with all new writers so it can be written better from the start, so many good shows get rebooted for no reason, why not reboot a show with incredible potential but poor execution.
Like as everyone said. All they had to do was CALL. HER. OUT. But NO they encourage it. Both her friends and the writers! And I consider them such hypocrites for calling out Cat Noir but not Maribug? Talk about double freaking standards. Lastly, they botched the alternative love interest. They did Luka with a BIT of respect. But not with Kagami. That was a messy... MESSY break up. I agree that they should have been with Luka and Kagami, at least a season or two. Just to take a break from each other. But if the studio REALLY wanted the main two as the final couple. Then there is still away to work around it. But they clearly don't want to fix it. They think what's been happening is fine the way it is. And that's one of the main reasons why I dropped the show.
It's quite simple, actually. 1. Marinette starts out as somewhat creepy and obsessive, and it's clearly portrayed as a character flaw. It's closely related to her lack of confidence and excessively energetic personality. Her creepiness is not excessive, however - sure, she may keep a bunch of pictures of him in her house and gush over him, but she doesn't break into his house or follow him across the world to China. 2. Marinette slowly lets go of those bad behaviors, through lessons she learns each episode, as well as her own friends calling her out. She learns to become more reasonable due to her responsibilities as Ladybug and understands the importance of being calm, composed, and logical. Cat Noir can also help her become more confident - I love Lady Chat as a friendship, not as a romantic ship. 3. Marinette and Adrien slowly become closer and closer friends, and she becomes less awkward around him. Once again, this is character development - she learns to be more confident and less awkward as the episodes pass. By the end of the first season, she and Adrien are very close friends and can talk perfectly normally to each other, and Marinette understands now that the best way to enter into a relationship with Adrien isn't to obsess over an idealized version of him, but to simply be his friend and get to know him more.
I agree! If done properly Mari gets called out or gets consequences for her stalkerish behavior she'll get character development by learning that her behavior towards Adrien is wrong that'd be very neat , also thank you very much for the shoutout in the vid! 😄 💌
@@reemraghad4267 like the way she's going after him is super creepy and obsessive. Like I literally said on tiktok that I swear she's only friends with some of her "friends" to get close to Adrian.
Wow Amazing video. 💌 Yes, I agree. Marinette's and Adrien's behavior could've been a good thing in the show if 1_ They were called out for their behaviors. And Mari's friends wouldn't have encouraged and enabled her. 2_ If they learned about respecting boundaries in a natural way. Anyways, thanks for the shout-out.
yay I made it into the video!! 💌 Thank you for talking about this topic in the first place, I feel like it's a missed opportunity that it doesn’t contribute anything to their character development, as it could have been so much better executed as is. BUT maybe the only reason for that is because it's.. well... Miraculous. MAYBE (and I hope so) they will get over these habits in the next season, given we're getting the reveal SO a lot of things could be changing after that episode. Also that Magical Girl Ladybug is so cute :3 keep doing awesome ❤️
Disclaimer: I have not seen the last 2 episodes of season 4 yet. From what I've gathered online, Ladybug does broke down in front of Adrien and Chat Noir, proving to him that she does have imperfections. (I could be wrong and if I please tell me)
Yes, that did happen, but technically, from what I understand, she's admitting to treating him badly and to her faults as a guardian. Which is good! Don't get me wrong. I'd also like her to acknowledge and change from her obsessive behavior towards Adrien as well x3
If the people around them acknowledged that their behavior is problematic and creepy instead of encouraging it (cough cough Tikki and Mari’s friend group cough cough and idk who on Chat Noir’s side-) and they would’ve realized their faults, it could’ve worked. cause Chat Noir is seeing Marinette’s creepy behavior and Marinette is seeing Chat Noir’s, they should realize at some point that they’re both actingthe same way, either make them develop before becoming a couple or just don't make them a couple at all- I agree with your comment so much. Or maybe because Marinette is LITERALLY a middle schooler, they maybe could’ve used that as a route where Mari is unaware of how horrid her actions are and the people around her like the 1000-year-old immortal Kwami and her parents react to that and teach her that it’s unhealthy and horrifying. Callimara (a CZcamsr) also made a good change to the story. In her redesign video of Marinette, she changed the whole obsessive crush thing into a route where Marinette isn’t interested in love, and because of the influence her friends have on her and the people she’s surrounded with (and the fact that Paris is the city of love), after telling her friends about the umbrella thing and them encouraging her and telling her it’s “true love”, she tries to pursue a romantic relationship that she is absolutely disinterested in. That would’ve been such a great way to go about it honestly. Also, I love the drawing nice job❤️😭💌
@@TheArtisticAloubell I’m honestly shocked you read all that, it just shows you’re a great CZcamsr and care about your fans and that made me happy❤️ And np, the drawing is truly amazing so I was just stating the obvious
It really could've been satisfying seeing her being called out for some really disturbing moments, because the moment she sniffed Adrians bed, I was like "Yeah, I think someone needs a nice word with the police"
I TOTALLY forgot to mention this in the video (and I feel so bad about it DX) BUT the design of magical girl Ladybug is by Chlogami on Instagram. Please check her out when you get the chance! I'll link her Instagram in the description ^_^
I completely agree with u Aloubell. Honestly because of how things are going, I chose to leave the show early before season 2 but I know what happens cuz of CZcams but still it sucks that Marinette isn't called out on her behavior and it's not a good example of how people should handle love or relationships in general.
@@Hikari156 Agreed!
Aloubell you have a beautiful voice and I hope you have a beautiful life💌
@@vexter3225 Thank you so much
(Sorry for all the miss sell 😣) Tho I 100% agree with you I still think that the friends don't really agree with Mary on her upseshin because in the episode of risk shadowmoth do say risk making people take action how they normally wouldn't take
It could work as a horrible flaw that she and Chat work through together through companionship and learning how to be in a stable proper relationship and to love themselves and ofcourse have the other character call them out on it
Agreed! ✨
Yeeep except it has been 4 season.
Maybe 5? Idk lost interest in season 2 and from what I read
She did not get better
@@azula4786 that's dedication I got to episode 5 of season 1 and got bored and annoyed
@@insertunoroginalnamehere6189 personally i like the concept
@@azula4786 She was ok
Don't forget Adrien's only example of a romantic relationship is Gabriel's obsession with his mother.
True!
That's true, marinette is like gabriel agreste or rather gabi grassette .
The fact that I laughed because its so true- 💀
Please find YHWH Elohim and keep the commandments in Exodus 20 and Leviticus 11
Please read Exodus 20 and pray for forgiveness.
2nd Corinthians 5:17
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!”
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:37- 40
Please read the book of Jonah, Matthew, Exodus you'll have the information you need.❤️❤️💐💐🌈🌈 Exodus 20 Leviticus 11
Well, I'm sure Gabriel and Emilie had a good relationship, so that's not an issue. Gabriel, on the other hand, really needs to learn to let go ...
The key thing wrong with mlb’s writing is consequence.
There is no consequences for Marinette’s behavior
Theres practically no lasting consequences *for anything*
This! It's like they want to be story driven but with self-contained episodes and that just doesn't work the way they're doing it. It's possible to have a story driven series with self-contained episodes but you can't just reset the characters to basically square 1 after almost every episode. If the story's progressing, the characters should be developing in some way. Stuff should stick past the episode(s) it comes up in. It's not a good thing that S4 Adrien and S1 are almost the exact same. I think Adventure Time is a pretty good example of how to do that right and maybe even Regular Show.
@@47ratsinahoodie yes! Agreed!
@@47ratsinahoodie excellent points! ✨
Yup! And that's frustrating! 😖
@@TheArtisticAloubell Support the fan content- I listened to an audio fic that accomplished the reveal in like 3 chapters. Fans do the canon better, and even though you’re not a miraculous ladybug channel, you’ve got some great ideas!
I believe that the creepy obsession with Marinette and Adrian and their superhero personas could work IF IT WAS WRITTEN BETTER. Boundaries and actually not putting your love interest on a pedestal is very much needed for teenagers and even small children to understand and grasp lest they end up like Marinette and then get restraining orders placed on them and they can develop better friendships and relationships by talking with associates of the person that they like and even learn these much needed lessons from them and become better citizens. The way it is now in Miraculous is NOT HEALTHY AND FUNCTIONAL and I do hope that it can be addressed and focused on more in S5. Thank you for making this video Aloubell and I'm glad that I could pitch in and help out with the filling in on Mary's flagrant crimes of 'passion' if you will. 💌💌
Great points!
And thank you for your help ❤️✨
So like what Hey Arnold did with Helga by giving her a therapist to handle her.... coping habits?'
@@ZanyCartoons Something like that or Alya actually trying to rein in her creepy like tendencies as her BEST FRIEND and try to help her have a normalized friendship with Adiran before making any romantic moves towards him
@@EnigmaPrince101 Marinette needs to stop surrounding herself with yes men and make friends that will tell her things that she doesn't like and she needs to see Adrien as a person not a prize she can win.
Literally how I feel. 😂
This reminds me that I heard about fanfic, which made "memorizing schedule" a little less creepy. A little.
The idea was that Mari know schedules of ALL of her friends and took role of "time keeper". It was explained as something she catch up from her mother, who had time control obsession, because of her work and chinese style of education. So Marinette use this habit to keep everything in place and watch over her friends plans.
So there was scene like:
Marinette - "Juleka should you have a date with Rose in ten minutes?"
Juleka - "Oh, crap. You're right! Thenks!"
And she storm out.
It's still creepy as a concept but less creepy than memorising just schedule of one boy, who gave her umbrella.
thats basically what I did in school XD For my crush, well we talked and he mentioned he had something every monday and i just..memorized it. No creepy stalker behaviour here, just me memorizing things XD And then later in high school I understood how our schedule worked so when I had my advanced courses I knew everyone had one and then I just needed to know a bit about the genereal coourses my friends took and was able to figure out which course they had next. One of my friends even called me out for being creepy and a stalker which I turned down and said I only memorize what you and others told me and then put one and one together. Ant it never went further than telling them what they had next so I think no one was harmed by this XD
Mhm!
Amazing 🤩🎉🎉
Please find YHWH Elohim and keep the commandments in Exodus 20 and Leviticus 11
Please read Exodus 20 and pray for forgiveness.
2nd Corinthians 5:17
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!”
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:37- 40
Please read the book of Jonah, Matthew, Exodus you'll have the information you need.❤️❤️💐💐🌈🌈 Exodus 20 Leviticus 11
@@Lolirock971I love the fact that you're spreading word about the Lord, I really do but putting in spaces where it isn't related to him makes people dislike/annoyed and less likely to even give the Bible a chance, maybe you can make videos about Bible verses or you reading the Bible? So that way more people can see them and get the full experience rather then just get a single verse?
💌 I agree that the show's framing is really the problem here. Marinette as a character feels(baring the bad-humor extremes) is really a good one who could have been used well, but the show chooses to frame her as right in every situation. The worst she can be is 'uninformed/mistaken' but never for long and never with any kind of real repercussions. It limits her and makes people slap the 'Mary Sue' label on her, which is a shame.
Exactly!
That's actually true...
The way I see it is shes more or less a mary sue based on each individual episode rather than her character in the whole show due to the episodes almost never connecting to the point of the characters seemingly doing complete 180s of what they originally believed or decided to do. One episode it will seem like she really learned something with genuine problems she solved and the next shes breaking into adriens house to ruin a date with adrien and kagami. It even applies to the side characters. One episode the mayor (i forgot how to spell his name) is a misunderstood dad who wants whats best for his family, even giving up his dream to be with them, the next he’s giving an earful to anyone and everyone in the classroom because someone stole chloes precious braclet, even going as far as firing anyone he can that says no. Its actually pretty jarring.
Please find YHWH Elohim and keep the commandments in Exodus 20 and Leviticus 11
Please read Exodus 20 and pray for forgiveness.
2nd Corinthians 5:17
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!”
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:37- 40
Please read the book of Jonah, Matthew, Exodus you'll have the information you need.❤️❤️💐💐🌈🌈 Exodus 20 Leviticus 11
Another route the writers could take with Marionette’s behavior is go the Hey Arnold route. When mentioning the stalkerish behavior from Ladybug, it reminded me of Helga. The difference is that Helga is called out for her behavior (and by Arnold no less) and throughout the show progresses and learns healthier ways of showing her affections. On the other side, Arnold learns about Helga’s affections before she confessed in the Hey Arnold movie and at first thinks the idea is a nightmare, but slowly begins softening up to the idea as Helga begins showing through her actions to genuinely care for him. Into the Jungle is what highlights how far the two have come from the first season of the show with Arnold now being patient and understanding and Helga dropping the bullying tactics and growing closer to Arnold in more healthy ways such as walking to school together and talking. Helga still has issues she has to deal with, but Arnold sees that the both of them are growing and knows Helga will get better over time as his grandmother also started as a toxic person as a child but grew better over time.
Perhaps, instead of Ladybug’s and Cat’s behavior being encouraged (mostly Ladybug’s), both can be called out by each other. Ladybug calling out Cat for his creepiness and Adrian calling out Marionette for her behavior. Over time, the love square can come to a full circle with Ladybug growing soft for Cat’s improvement and loyalty towards her and Adrian also growing soft for Marionette’s improvement and genuine love for him. Over time, they begin connecting the dots of their secret identities as they progress and get to know each other as heroes and their secret identities. Instead of a love confession (since they already know who is in love with whom) they confess each other’s identities and knowledge of the other’s. From there, they kiss and become an official couple. The two can still be creepy and get together in the end, but do so with progression and learning to use healthy ways of showing their affections instead of creepy shit.
I love Helga! She is one of my favorite cartoon characters of all time x3
I did have her in mind when making this video. I was gonna talk about her, but I think she deserves her own video x3
Great points! X3
That's actually a great way to do it.
@@TheArtisticAloubell I'd like to see that video tbh. 😂
Hey Arnold is such a good written show in comparison to MLB and like... it's just a good show.
And I liked how they took the route of not making every other Arnold's love interest just a wicked witch or smth like that - every time Helga tried to sabotage Arnold and his chances with another girl (Ruth or Lila), *she* was the bad guy. The girls were also not just a part of a plot device for Helga and Arnold to get together - with Ruth he himself realized she just wasn't someone he always thought she was, and with Lila it was... difficult, but she in fact didn't "like like" Arnold. She even guessed about Helga liking Arnold and has given her the role of a Juliet in the school play.
That was literally so cool about Hey Arnold that every character, even the minor one, got some development and an episode to shine.
Awesome! I hope to see that video, if only as an example of another way MLB can use Marionette’s and Cat’s creepiness, while still setting them up to be together. I get the feeling the writers had intended on getting Cat and Ladybug to get together through hell or high water, so if that is what they want, going the Hey Arnold route is the best way to go.
That list of creepy things at the beginning was just wow, also if this was a more mature show for older audiences she would definitely be the yandere killing girls in the backroom
Either a yandere or a well meaning person with yandere tendencies who needs A LOT of development lol
Definitely
Seriously though as someone who's watched yandere simulator and a lot of gotcha I compare her sometimes to a yandere like a low-key watered down one. Like she seems a little bit similar to yandere Chan.
lmao reminds me of ayano aishi from yander sim- except no killing-
you know those girls in school that have celebrity crushes that say intense things like " hes my husband"or "hes so perfect hes the only man for me" Marinette is the living being that represents all those girls but if they could have the opportunities to live out their weird fantasies
That's...incredibly spot-on lol
Low-key Kagami is the best character for the simple fact she admitted her flaws in Risk (I think) when she called Adrien and told him he needs to stand up for himself
Kagami seems cool! 😁
@@TheArtisticAloubell Kagami *is* cool (and yes I'm biased, she's my favorite character)
Yeah. Even if they didn't plan to have her as Adrien's end game. Both Kagami could be what helps grows balances his character. A sort of secondary unofficial mentor/friend.
Kagami is that one friend that gives him a reality check. The harsh, but still gentle words he NEEDS to hear.
And to balance the relationship. He has her learn to loosen up a bit. And be a bit more selfish from time to time. Their dynamic is great.
Well, there's also the fact that she repeatedly picked up a Weapon whenever an Akuma showed up and dragged Adrien to safety, even though they weren't dating anymore.
Do I need any *more* reason to ship these two? 😄
If Adrien *has* to get together with a blue haired Superheroine in a red and black Outfit.....why couldn't we let it be Ryuko? 🤔
I mean, she already has so many Similarities to Ladybug that I genuinely believed she was meant as a Red Herring to make Adrien believe he is actually dating Ladybug this entire time.
I love kagami it makes me sad that she is so hated soleley because she is the other girl
💌 love how you not only called out marinette's issues but also Adrien's issues. Maybe you can also do one on the increasly violent tendencies Adrien showed in season 4, like nearly murdering alya, that he never really got called out on, or the poor distribution of blame the show has.
Wait when did he almost kill Alya??
@@nuclear_stardust Hack-San, he tried to cataclysm her when he first didn’t know that she was ladybugs’s substitute. He thought she was a akuma or sentimonster and attacked her, most people think cataclysm can kill someone.
@@Bubblegum_Bitter_Girlie I'm pretty sure it can based on what we've seen. Also even if he did think she was an akuma that would still be trying to kill the akuma victim since I don't think we even saw him look for an item that could housed an akuma. As for sentimonster part he knows it only makes sentimonsters worse so why would he use it if he did think alya was a sentimonster?
@@naturegreenr4757 It was likely out of a fit of a temper tantrum and jealous rage. I’m not going to try and defend that though, because if it can kill he’s probably been told this.
@@Bubblegum_Bitter_Girlie I understand that but the fact no one called him out on it is what upsets me
What's even more unrealistic is that Chloe, her bully who also knows Marinette's crush, doesn't do anything about.
Yeah wasn't there an episode where they made it clear to the audience that Chloe had just found out that Mari had a crush on Adrien? And then she just didn't act on it? Like even if it didn't end how Chloe would have wanted to, I see few reasons as to why she wouldn't tell him
RIGHT?!
@@47ratsinahoodie it's honestly just the plot keeping Adrien from knowing cuz irl, he would have found out 😖
@@TheArtisticAloubell I'm pretty sure if Adrien knew it would make it a whole lot easier for him to start catch feelings for Marinette since now he would be looking at her a different in a way and starting to like her back naturally instead of liking her because she's Ladybug.
@@ZanyCartoons agreed on that 👍
The fact that she has a Adrien gps tracker just scares me.
Right? Like how do you even get that? Lol
I think it's hilarious how this entire list of offenses could've been solved if she'd just become a true, natural friend to him.
Right?!
Same! I just want them to become actual friends! We hardly see them genuinely develop that way onscreen.
I think the times Marinette took things too far could have been a learning opportunity since
there are a lot of younger kids watching the show. 💌 I wouldn't have a problem with it
as long as she gets called out but I think she rarely does...? if ever
"The Missed Opportunity" section is so great, I'd rather watch that version than the real show!
it genuinely sounds much more entertaining as well
This show is one big missed opportunity and it's frustrating 😖
The only time I remember is once Alex called her out but still went along with the stupid plan
Marinette's writing can become the most best character out of her own 'cringy' characteristics only, she has potential. Every human being has flaws and has it's ups and downs, embarrassing moments and so much more. We can be rude to someone without knowing. Marinette not being able to talk to her crush is totally fine, it natural and it shouldn't be looked down upon. She had so many conversations with Adrien (serious ones, like in queen battle 3rd part, season 2 finale, etc) and that shows that yes, she can talk with Adrien just fine without fangirling. This creepy characteristic can develop as something where she was once like that but as she learns and grows and when people call her out for it ( expecting Luka, kagami, mostly alix, Lila, Adrien, nino,alya). After piling with responsibilities, she becomes angry that she didn't talk with Adrien or her friends and tikki calls her out. After the calling out, she works on herself and slowly but steadily put her obsession away which makes her confident. That's it, I hope poor Mari gets better writers. Edit: also calling Adrien out for his creepy tendencies to always not listen when someone says no can also work. You are great alou
Great points! And thank you! 😁❤️
I agree with this! 👍
Chat Noir is not at the same level of creepyness as Marinette solely because Chat doesn't have much opportunity to do so. Bc he can't know who Ladybug really is and how she lives or know much about her, unlike Marinette who does know Adrien and a big part of his life by seeing him at school everyday
In season 1, I can get pass the part of Marinette knowing Adrien's schedule as both cute and creepy, so I didn't mind much.
In season 2, again I could get pass her watching on repeat intently on the perfume commercial Adrien was on and even having tons of pictures of him, I didn't mind that either.
But then season 3 and 4, made her crush look utterly crazy stalker like and unhealthy, especially the Wax and Pillow scene, I mean come on what kind of message does that give to girls and boys that it's completely normal for you to stalk your crush, smell the places they sleep or sat, and sabotage their chances of finding love with other people
Look I get it I had a crush too, amd I would watch him from afar hoping he notice me, but I didn't follow the guy into his house, or bathroom or even invite myself into his group of friends.
So yeah I seriously don't like Marinette's crush and her actions towards Adrien, they are no longer cute anymore. It all went out the window the moment season 3 came out.
I'm so glad you made this video, it is so satisfying to see someone else agreeing that Marinette's crush is 100% creepy
May God bless you 🙏🏽
Thank you so much for your input! ❤️
And may God bless you too! ❤️❤️🙏
Yeah I agree seasons 1 and 2 are still a little bit weird but not extremely weird to where you would say it's psychopathic. Like the thing she did in season 1 and 2 are things you would normally see crushing girls do in TV shows like Johnny test (edit) oh and the fairly odd parents or like one of my OCS who stalks the other one in a psychopathic way but it's more funny.
Part of the reason why I want them to reverse the love square so she doesn't go like this to Adrien
Honestly the whole schedule thing could easily be fixed if she either
Had everyone's schedules , showing she's just like that with everyone n its not done for special, creepy reasons
Or
If they made it clear she made it because she was worried for Adrien's mental health with all he does everyday and wanted to find the right times to be able to do little things like give him snacks or just go for a small chat to make sure he's okay - aka, show it more as an act of kindness/sympathy/want to help and not just "when he's available for me to confess my love to"
@@dizzyheads what do you mean reverse it ?
"The writers don't seem to be self aware enough to have repercussions for the behavior or have them grow out of it in time." I paraphrased but 100% agree. Sitting through this latest season where Marinette gets no repercussions and doesn't feel even a little remorse when she does awful things, like throw cat noir in the trash, or almost end the world (Ephemeral) is just really unrealistic and unsettling. Not just the friend group, even the adults seem to enable this behavior. Like the mom wouldn't notice all those pictures of Adrien in Mari's room and have a chat with her about it? Do they not know what moms do?? Marinette almost ends the world in Ephemeral, and Master Suhan says she's the best guardian at the end. What?? 💌💌
In defense for the chat trashing
I think she was overall (about 65%) in the right there as she already had made it incredibly clear to him MANY times she doesn't want to be in a relationship with him like that, and also made it very obvious to him that the article thing abt them being together upset her. But he tried to keep insisting on the opposite of what she wanted, watching and being fully aware of how it made her feel.
And during a battle too-
You don't feel remorse for snapping back when someone's trying to put you in uncomfortable situations- they were both in the wrong in that instance at least, Chat could've avoided that happening if he just cared more about her feelings and less about smth that she made clear she didn't want at the time
Something I noticed in the 4th season was that Adrien actually did have an episode where Ladybug finally snapped at his behavior when he kept focusing on her instead of the fight they were in. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but it's definitely annoying that Adrien seems to get more (deserved) criticism in the show for his actions while Marinette's are not only encouraged, but even sometimes seen as a good thing. Like when Kagami said Marinette was right for Adrien since she knows his schedule for the next 3 years by heart.
I need at least one character to tell Marinette she is being creepy, preferably someone in her friend group. Also,love that you mentioned Toradora,love that anime!
I wish alya or her parents tell her
I wish that happened too 😖
Its gonna be juleka or alix cause AJAHAHAHAHHA
Alix did mention Marinette was being creepy to Rose, who agreed and asked wasn't Marinette being romantic? 🤦♀️ This happened in Gigantitan, which was a whole problem in and of itself.
Same but sadly its literally her friends who are the ones encouraging it
They all know what she does, and how far she does, and they ENCOURAGE her to act like this even when she herself is against her behaviors
If anyone should confront her about this without being a gaslighty friend, it should be her mom, Adrien, her dad, chat noir, or even Zoey could work tbh-
Marinette's creepiness is the reason why I want Juleka to be the main character instead.
Yes, Juleka supremacy🛐💕💕 best girl.
I wish she (and other interesting side characters) got more focus. We don't always need to see things from Marinette's perspective.
@@skydragonslayer9820 I agree. It would be nice having other characters' perspective.
Juleka is amazing!
Funnily enough, a Reviewer on the Internet kinda made a Parody of this.
Yrsina Pestis and Pink Salmon fight for Truth, Love and Justice and protect Paris from the Oni that the villainous Eaglehawk sends out to steal their magical Jewelry. 😄
Finally! Someone acknowledged it was Mari's fault for fu and the s3 holders getting discovered and for pushing Chloe's descent to evil. Because I've never heard or seen anyone talking or acknowledging that, if it wasn't for her jealousy and obsession, we would've gotten a better season finale. Honestly it's Mari's fault for all of that but I just never see anyone talk about that. So thank you again for acknowledging it, and also her other offenses.
Honestly even Marinette herself acknowledges it so I think that's why no one includes that in things
Because everything else she does goes unacknowledged by the show
*Marinette:* I put surveillance cameras in Adrien's room. *Tiki:* You're probably going to jail
Gabriel: "Who has put surveillance cameras in Adrien's room?!? I am the only one who is allowed to do that!"
💌 I feel like charecters with stalkerish tendencies could work with three things:
1. As long as it's not over the top and genuinely makes the audience uncomfortable and hate the character
2. As long as there is a justified reason for it like somthing that happend in the past
3. As long as others acknowledge said charecters weirdness and help them calm down there tendencies or make them have no stalker tendencies at all
Keep in mind this is my opinion and your entitled to your own.
Ok but when the freaking police officer got involved to commit a felony "In the name of love" that's where I was officially flabbergasted. Good on you for watching as little as the show as possible! Biggest regret of my life.
honestly, that’s what i wished the show did. mari’s creepy behaviour wouldn’t have bothered me as much if it was properly addressed and actively called out. chat’s behaviour annoys me less bc at least he gets reprimanded in canon, and (slowly) learns from it. with mari though, people enable it, which i’ve always found weird?? how is chat’s actions not okay but mari’s, who are far worse, played for laughs?? and i think that the creator just loves mari too much to think that she can do any wrong (yall remember when Santa Claus said she was #1 on the nice list?? yeah) so that’s never gonna go anywhere.
There is DEFINITELY a double standard going on here >__
Yeah and at least with cat it's more tame all it is is photos and just kind of wanting to constantly date her. Not like being super obsessive like Marinette is.
@@Office_chair
-being pushy
-being a stalker
-having healthy relationship
Choose one, please
@@ShumaiTheDetective cat noir or Marinette ? Yeah but like the writers need to choose something they can't have her or him wanting all free because that's not possible and if it is it's creepy.
I agree... there was a time when Alya tells her that Chat Noir was indeed annoying, I find it weird she doesn't say anything about Marinette being creepy
Honestly, with the way Marinette loves Adrien, it's kinda like a fangirl crushing on her favorite idol and I can honestly see that. That even if (perhaps) Marinette's feelings are for real, her actions are like one of a creepy/stalker fangirl. Which honestly is also not right. I would agree that her actions would work if her actions were called out and/or she learns that it's not ok. Unfortunately, in miraculous style, the only no she's ever gotten was from part 1 of season 4's finale... I just don't understand that. The one time she's been told no by anyone was when Adrien tells her the truth about how he's tired of modeling and just wants out of it and when Marinette tries to tell her friends they shut her down because of either jealousy of Lila or that they just don't believe Adrien wouldn't say that 😒
I agree with everything you said 👍
As for Adrien/Chat Noir... while I agree that his actions aren't the greatest, one thing I'm annoyed with is that like in one of the comments, Adrien only loving Marinette because she's ladybug. Both with Chat Blanc and Ephemeral, Adrien only loved her because she's Ladybug. That just doesn't sit right with me. One great thing that I loved with Ephemeral was Marinette learning to love both sides of Adrien. Adrien, however, doesn't get explored like that and just loves Marinette just because of his love for Ladybug. That just peeves me off!
I just want their love for each other in the love square to be explored better. If Marinette/Ladybug and Adrien/Chat Noir are gonna be the endgame couple, then like Marinette in Ephemeral, Adrien needs to love Marinette for both sides of her instead of just because she's ladybug. Yes, both their creepiness needs to be controlled better, but Adrien's love for Marinette is just unrealistic to me. It's why I love MariChat. It's cause they're able to be their better selves with each other is what makes the ship so great. They might not see each other in a romantic way, but they get to know each other for who they are and away from their creepy/stalker ways towards their love interests.
*THIS.* This one track minded *obsession* with Adrien is what Marinette *needs* to grow out of. (Same with Chat Noir too, we just see Marinette a lot more) It's one of the reasons I like Strike Back so much. It was undeniable proof to Marinette that her refusal to see Adrien as anything other than perfect is a bad thing and, *oh boy* does she *pay* for it. My hope for Season 5 is that she *finally* realizes her feelings, specifically how she acts on her feelings, for Adrien does more harm than good and lets go of her crush on him. And start to appreciate/ fall for Chat Noir because despite his flaws, his love and dedication for her is real. Also, thanks for mentioning me in the video, Aloubell. You're awesome, too. And that also goes for anyone who's reading this!🥰 💌
Oh boy this obsession needs finally pay
(Making a sentence out of the boldfaced words)
@@themaincharacter420 lol 😂
Thank YOU for your help gathering this info ^_^
Unpopular opinion, if the "screws over friend out of tournament" is referring to Max and the video game thing, I would argue against that. Yes, she only joined to be with Adrien, but she won against Max fairly. She didn't cheat, she was just the better player. Max "practicing for months and really looked forward to completing" doesn't change the fact he lost (fairly and twice, to Marinette & Adrien) in the selection round. That was more Max being a sour loser than anything else.
Also *love letter thing*
That's a fair point ^_^
To possibly add to this, i swear when i rewatched that episode, Max was using his glasses to look up button combos during the fights (unless im remembering completely wrong. And if that was actually the case, then Max was cheating and didnt deserve to join the tournament. (Again i could be remembering that scene completely wrong. )
She won the match fairly but it is still not cool in the ethic point of view.
Not to mention that max, for literally no reason, automatically went to assuming Marinette didn't know the game or how to play when she rather confidently walked up to participate for smth that wasnt mandatory?
I was really thrown off by that move on Max's part-
I'm always up for hearing how something could work if well written so although I'm wary, I trust you Aloe!
Edit: Totally agree! I think you're absolutely right in thinking that Miraculous could use Mari and Adrien's creepy and stalkerish tendencies to its advantage. They should have either toned it down and called it out or had them grow out of it over time because as it stands, both of them are going to end up getting their way whether they learn that their behavior is wrong or not and potentially even *_because_* of their bad behavior.
The amount of missed opportunity in this show makes me sad 😖
Thank you for watching! ❤️❤️
I made a character based of Instagram, as well as Marinette
Instagram bird, like Marinette, stalks her crush, but uses a Stand to spy on him. I was planning this character to be Marinette, but actually learns, as in she eventually realizes about how her stalking tendencies are unhealthy and wrong.
Interesting! 😁
I feel like after Risk, Marinette finally respected Adrien as a person
We'll see! We will see if her character development sticks or not. Season 5 will be the test!
Lmao I totally lost it when you've listed Marinette's creepy behaviors🤣 Girl, you could discover a new element or invent time travel with all the time you spent on that list :D
Fortunately I had help gathering up the offenses, but even writing them all down definitely took a bit of time X'D
@@TheArtisticAloubell Well makes sense. Otherwise you'd be retired when you finished that list on your own lol :D
I wouldn’t really count “Mari joining the fencing club for Adrien” as stalking IF it wasn’t for the soul purpose of stalking him. It’s one thing for you to join a club because you wanna indulge yourself in your crush’s interests cus you wanna see why they like it so much buuut obvi this ain’t the case-
XD
Marinette's stalker behavior could have worked if it was portrayed as a character flaw and not a character trait.
The key differences between character flaws and character traits is that character flaws are usually frowned upon according to common moral standards, and can be overcome, while character traits are aspects of a character that should and are embraced proudly. For example, a character flaw is being a hypocrite, bullying someone, and failing to get things done on time, while a character trait is being a great artist, having a beautiful singing voice, and having an altruistic heart.
Thomas Astruc genuinely believes in his narcissistic delusions that Marinette being a creepy stalker is an actual character trait, which is beyond disturbing, because the only people who I think think that stalking is okay are people who stalk other people themselves, which if you think about it, could put you on an FBI list of some sort. I am unconvinced that it's ignorance, and I believe that this man genuinely does not care at all about the fans' concerns over this issue.
The extremely few exceptions are yandere characters, but Marinette is not portrayed as a yandere, which makes it worse. Besides, we have people who are being stalked in real life, so it hits home for all yhe wrong reasons.
Marinette is a Mary Sue, through and through, but without the Lisa Frank looks, which is extremely problematic, not to mention a bad influence to children, who are smarter than we give thrm credit for.
I don’t think Marinette actually likes Adrien but likes the idea of him. Same with Adrien liking the idea of Ladybug. Both are so obsessed with this idea of the others perfect image that they’re blinded by reality
but marinette loves adrien cause he is nice and honsest and adrien loves ladybug cause she is smart and brave
Them learning about boundaries (I think I write that wrong) would create more moments when they get closer to each other, and it could be really romantic.
Nothing more romantic than two people respecting the other, what they say, want, and how they developpe healthy communication.
It could even lead to funny situations.
Very much agree! That would be so good!
The wax statue episode is what made me stop watching the show lol
A male would *NEVER* get away with this. How come writers think it's cute to make girls creepy over guys?
That could work but the only problem is that the writers are probably too cocky to do that. Hopefully they AT LEAST make Cat Noir and Marinette less obsessed. 💌
Agreed 👍
Yeah the writer stink like how Chloe was starting to have her redemption and now she's just pushed back into the super mean girl obstacle slot again. People might hate me but I don't really like Zoe she feels randomly placed and sort of feels like a pick me hated child from gacha.
I highly doubt the writers will allow Mari and Adrien to learn that they have problems and change. In season 1, it was tame and opened the door for growth, but after 4 seasons of the same formula, it seems impossible for any genuine change outside of season finale's to actually be implemented (and done well). Mari's tried to give up on her crush on Adrien multiple times but always resets by the next episode, she also learned that he's in love with someone else, cries about it, and then goes right back to her stalker stuff, Adrigami and Lukanette only became canon for basically a single episode (and Luka and Kagami proceed to go on about how Mari and Adrien are "meant for each other"). And then there's the fact that each time MAri and Adrien learn each other's identities and begin to date, the world ends. The writers keep pushing for Adrienette being the perfect couple, but constantly demonstrate how it's both toxic and world ending.
To me, I don't see any way for season 5 to properly change anything. The only way I think it could is if there are no filler episodes and a season long subplot of Marinette and Adrien realizing their behaviours are toxic and make genuine changes that last longer than the final 3 minutes of an episode (without resetting the characters)
oh this video aged perfectly. 1:26 they made this the moment adrien fell in love with her. the cringiest, creepiest moment in the show that even we the fandom cant watch because Its That Bad.........is canonically important. when we say this show is a garbage fire we meant it
I heard about that D'X
Honestly, while marinette is creepy for no reason, I find Adrien’s obsession and behavior to at the very least make sense. He loves LB, because she was the first person he worked with and she’s the first person to trust him which is something he cherishes. I’m not condoning or defending his actions either, I most certainly didn’t condone or defend Helga Pataki’s actions (I have Hey Arnold on one of the Nick channels and fell in love with it), but Helga’s reasons are explored more as to WHY she is obsessed with Arnold and why she is in love with him. And there’s more to her character and her behavior than just her love for Arnold for being cute and nice. Unlike marinette who fell in love with Adrien because of an umbrella. I seriously thought that was French thing or something lol. Helga was neglected by her parents who adored and favored Olga while they overlook Helga (and weren’t afraid to show it) and even call her Olga by mistake from time to time and don’t even know how old their own daughter is. No one has ever noticed her, not once, accept for Arnold. He was the only one to ever show kindness towards Helga and see her and BOOM! She’s in love with him. And when she was fawning over Arnold during snack time in preschool, she was bullied for simply showing affection, something she was never allowed to have or show with her family (her parents because they’re neglectful and her sister because she’s the fav golden child), she gets defensive and becomes the bully. While this doesn’t excuse Helga’s outburst and behavior for the majority of the show especially towards Arnold, you can’t blame her entirely and it makes sense as to why she does what she does. Though trying to kill the parrot in that one episode was going waaayyy too far especially since the poor bird is only repeating words and sounds it hears not understanding the meaning behind them. If marinette had somewhat similar reasons, I’d let it slide as long as it’s handled well and the behavior was acknowledged as unacceptable and creepy. I see Adrien as a more mild mannered, sweet and gentle version of Helga Pataki. Just like Helga, Adrien has known mainly toxic relationships for the majority of his life from his dad, Chloe, and even if I don’t think Emile is as bad as Gabriel, I don’t think she’s any better since she had expectations for her son too since Adrien is the human equivalent of a sentimonster (though I don’t believe him to be a sentimonster) who will be whatever his parents, keyword: PARENTS, want him to be. And it doesn’t help that his friends not only enable Marinette’s behavior, but they also help set him up with his stalker. Yuck. Also, my boy is receiving the Chloe treatment by the creator. Thomas hates Chloe since she’s modeled after his childhood bully therefore she’s “irredeemable”, and he doesn’t care much for Adrien when making him dumb and useless and irrational and things like that because he hates fans wanting more of Adrien when Mari is the MC while childishly saying, “is it so hard to allow the female to lead?” Never mind is mainly FEMALES who wanted more of Adrien which sounds very sexist of him to say. He even defends Marinette’s stalker, boarder-line yandere behavior by listing reasons as to why she’s not a creep or a stalker which sounds like he describing the exact behaviors but just making up excuses for a criminal. Good thing he’s not a lawyer. But yeah, it’s not the behaviors that’s the problem, it’s the way they are never acknowledged as bad behaviors or corrected which would allow the character(s) to learn and grow from them. Kind of like how I don’t mind dark, serious, and mature content being placed in children shows just as long as they’re there to point out what’s bad and how to handle it. And there’s nothing wrong with characters behaviors being acknowledged as bad. We can like characters and admit they did a bad thing or in the wrong. I do it all the time even with Adrien my favorite character. I’ve had favorites who made me feel infuriated loads of times, and even make me wish I could smack some sense into them. Why is it that Thomas thinks that loving a character or a main character means they have to be a Mary Sue who can get away with anything/everything through the powers of deus ex machina and plot convenience. Oh right, because a female lead has to be mollycoddled by the narrative because I guess he believes girls are that weak/soft, and need to be treated like babies made of glass. In other words, females should be babied, and he has the audacity to say our critiques are misogynistic and bullying? He calls himself a feminist and that’s the reason, in his mindset, that they should get away with this long list of crimes and treat them as “normal teen girl behavior”, while getting flirty, kissy and the other things cat noir did is, while yes still unacceptable behavior, but considered worse crimes/behavior than what Marinette has ever done. And here I’m thinking feminism is about equality. Speaking of “normal teen girl behavior”, just because they’re are teen girls who might behave creepily, lack boundaries and develop stalker/creep behavior, that doesn’t mean it’s “normal teen girl behavior”. That’s like saying killing and stealing is common so it must be morally right. Or smoking and drinking is common so it must be healthy. Maybe if Marinette was just behaving in the same manner as Mei from Turning Red and kept it at that level of obsession, that would be considered normal. Harmless even. Funny thing, they call Mei “thirsty” when someone like Marinette exists. 😅That girl got powers but didn’t necessarily abused them to do illegal things (well she did get into the concert using her powers but at least it wasn’t to break into someone’s home invading their privacy and disrespecting boundaries). Like okay, admiring them from afar, okay. Writing poems, fine. Drawing doujinshi style pictures with you and your crush, cute. Build a shrine, uh…..suuure. Still would be pretty tame compared to everything else she did. And yeah, another problem with Adrien and Marinette’s love for each other is they BOTH can’t love the other unless they’re a somebody to the world. Adrien won’t love Marinette unless she’s LB, and Marinette won’t love Chat Noir unless he’s the perfect, gorgeous, popular Adrien Agreste. So both of them have pretty shallow reasons to like each other. At the very least, I can believe Adrien might like Marinette with or without LB. Marinette on the other hand fell in love with Cat Walker when he was being perfect like how Adrien behaves around his father which leaves me to believe she only likes the idea of Adrien rather than the real Adrien. Adrien just wants to be fun, silly and be a teenager but he’s acting like a perfect adult like how his father expects which is the part marinette loves about him. That’s disturbing. I mean, she wanted Chat Noir back not because she missed him, but because Cat Walker was “too perfect”. I know people say that Adrien was selfish in Kuro Neko, but if there’s anything I’ve learned from therapy is that it is okay to be selfish sometimes. While sacrifices and heroic feats are admirable, they aren’t something that should be expected of you especially if you’re in toxic/abusive relationships with a family or a friend, because you matter-you’re important- and should just take care of yourself. I said the same things when Metroman from Megamind decided he didn’t want to be a hero anymore, and his reasons were simple and the fact that Adrien is a child who has too much expectations from his dad and is constantly pushed away, neglected, kept in the dark, gaslit, mistreated, put down, belittled, and barely understands what a healthy relationship should be-it’s understandable why he would be a bit selfish and behave the way he does. Again, not to hide his behavior behind excuses but at the very least it explains it. Idk. I’m not good at explaining things. That’s just my take. But, I agree how these behaviors could work as they work through their problems together. Great video as always. I just wish we can get these kids a therapist like the one from Helga on the Couch.
Oh my gosh you wrote like a whole essay. I agree with the beginning part when you call out Marinette people use Adrian as a counter argument when it doesn't make sense because he's definitely not worse than her and it's sort of makes more sense.
Like seriously how are you comparing him to Marinette he has some photos and just wants to date her and can be a little bit weird at times. UNLIKE MARINETTE WHERE SHE'S SOMEWHAT LIKE A PSYCHOPATH.
@@Office_chair lol yeah I do tend to get carried away. 😅 but yeah, I get so sick of the counter arguments. I don’t mind Adrien being flawed and called out for it, but comparing him to Mari when some of the stuff he does is tame compared to her just sickens me. It’s normal to have pictures of your crush and it’s hard getting over your crush when you cherish them for good reasons. Mari was just offered an umbrella by a nice, cute boy and she’s OBSESSED. Seriously I didn’t get that, and I legit asked, “is this a French people thing and I’m just not getting it or what?” Even if he did attempt to kiss her without consent, he at least takes ‘no’ for an answer. Cyrus the Great was starting to tick me off when he was okay with LB throwing Chat Noir in the trash and just straight up abusing him because that “makes sense” for her to do that for simply annoying her. So abuse is okay if it makes sense? What? Abuse is never okay regardless of the abusers emotions or motives. And because she’s just super annoyed? Bruh. I never so much as raised a hand towards a guy who was worse than Chat, and only threatened to pepper spray my stalker (who’s like Mari) if they tried anything non consensual. But if the roles reversed, people would lose it. If he got defensive because he didn’t feel safe, there would be a riot. Boys get harassed by girls in tv shows all the time, and it just makes me wish they were allowed to pepper spray them. You know what does make sense? A restraining order.
@@ashebennett7726 seriously though like I know crushes happen in the randomest ways but like an umbrella ? By this guy that you probably seen for like the past week or two ?
@@ashebennett7726 and yeah ladybug isn't exactly the nicest partner to cat noir anymore honestly I understand him feeling like he's replace or second best. SINCE APPARENTLY LADYBUG CAN SUMMON ANYTHING NOW.
The problem with both Marinette’s creepiness and Chats pushiness is that the show mostly resets at the end of each episode (bar a simple over arching arc). So instead of these flaws being a good story telling devices that can be flaws to actually corrected or addressed, they are used as jokes and waved off.
And at least they have had an episode or two where Chat was confronted about his creepiness. The lessons learnt from those are not existent as the writers have a serious problem with development of anything other than powers or miraculous’. Marinette is often encouraged and when something bad does happen it tends to be something related to a less problematic behaviour (ditching an event over stealing Adrian’s property)
But seriously this is a really bad example to kids. I watch this show with my niece and I have had to had a talk about this being wrong on both sides. She’s too young to have any serious crushes but old enough to start asking questions. Was fun telling her that no, mummy did not.
Once again, I think the show is trying to play is themes and ideas that are too mature or complex to the target audience (Stalking which has a lot of legal and mental health related problems, never mind the fact that Adrien is famous so may actually have issues with this before. And harassment which so has mental health and legal issues) but instead of either removing it, or simplifying the solution to something appropriate (simply for Marinette having a character tell her that is wrong and would actually upset Adrien if he knew as minimum) they have played it off as either laughs or just ignored that it’s actually there
The title just shocked me 🤣
Then it's a success! 😎✨
The show will ALWAYS try to push these two together because they are self aware to have them with someone else because they ended up breaking up the alternative couples (Mari x Luka and Adrien x Kagami) because they shoving the narrative that these two are "meant to be" when in reality Mari would be seen as the creepy fan and would be the villain. But no she buts in where she doesn't belong in general (when Chloe ask Audrey "why she doesn't love her" and sees the mother and daughter being awkward and instead of leaving them alone and giving Chloe ACTUAL FUCKING DEVELOPMENT and instead buts in and eventually inadvertently causing her character regression by the end of season three. This is my favorite characters in Miraculous are Juleka and Rose and Sent-Adrien and Creepy-nette.
Honestly I hate how the show keeps blatantly saying "they are made for each other." Like, actually SHOW us! Don't just say it! 😖
@@TheArtisticAloubell yeah but that's done to poor writing. That's why Mari AND Chloe need a redemption and overhaul of character development.
So many things that Mari did wrong, all of her creepiness. And somehow it’s normalized, and nobody would actually care. The would just sigh and look at her as if it was actually normal and people always do this. 💀(💌)
Btw I absolutely love your art! And the points and insight you made throughout the video! ^^
Thank you so much
I don't see too many people talking about Cat Noir's flaws and how his treatment towards Ladybug isn't right, so I commend you for doing that. 💌💌💌
X3
i think the base problem is that the show doesn't aknowledge the creepiness, like you CAN write a creepy character but a ton of people usually in those shows are like "bruh this ain't good" at least on some levels, and most shows keep it pg
aka not letting the obsessive one sniff stuff from his crush
As an avid watcher of the show, I agree with everything you’re saying. I hate to admit it, but the healthiest option is that Adrienette doesn’t happen. As much as I want it to, I know the writers are not smart enough to work them through their flaws in a way for them to healthily get together.
On that note, adrienette is confirmed to be endgame, so let’s see what unhealthy, obsessive and co-dependant relationship is formed from the ashes of what once was potential.
*sigh*
This show is my Riverdale.
I think it could work as long as she doesn’t get TOO Creepy, like she did in the show. She can be a little obsessed, but stalker stuff is crossing the line. Also her “problem” should be treated like an actual issue or flaw. She needs to at least feel a little bit of guilt for doing something wrong for Adrien (take embarrassing Lila as an example) somewhere in she show. And I think the friends should get more concerned instead of just helping her. Like when she had a crush on Adrien at the start they were not concerned, but the friends get more and more concerned the more creepy Marinette gets.
well alya called marinette insane alex called her creppy tikki called her out for not being able to control her emtions adrien called her out in voplina and the chrismas special kagami called her out for hesting and being over the top plagg called her out in kuro neko she call herself out a lot
As someone who never had a crush ever, it’s really scary to me how someone can be so obsessed over someone
Fair enough!
Though to be fair, I was overgeneralizing a bit in my video. Not EVERYONE with a crush does something crazy. Some people are really inactive while others keep it cool and collected.
@@TheArtisticAloubell phew okeh, good to know that not all people get all worked up over someone else. Nice video by the way, analysis was pretty thorough in my opinion
While I love Kagami and would genuinely love to see her in a healthy relationship with Adrien, I really can't say the same for Luca. His only purpose for existing is to be Mari's second crush. Other than that there is absolutely nothing to him. He has no traits that a character needs, he's just another plot device to stir up drama.
Mainly felt like bringing your attention to this since you say you don't plan on watching the whole show
Luka could use more development, for sure. But I do like how chill and considerate he is and how comfortable Mari is around him ^_^
From what I know about him, he isn't COMPLETELY bland as he does have his own interests and hobbies. Giving him a character arc would have been nice, though!
What I like about Cat Noir is that the show acknowledges and reprimands his bad behavior all of the time.
I am not saying I like his behavior, but it is hard to complain about it when the show belittles him and his behavior every episode. It does it so much, I can’t complain about it anymore.
Also, he does develop and get better.
I feel bad more him because his relationship with Ladybug is so abusive. Ladybug abuses him many times and he is gets treated like a doormat. He can’t stand up for himself because she won’t let him. That is not a role model I would want to look up to.
She is not even as loyal to her friends anymore which makes me mad because that was my favorite thing about her. Now she is straight narcissistic.
Writers: stop only using only their bad traits instead of their good ones.
If everyone has consistent development that carried over across episodes, that would be great, but it seems like that's not always the case.
Though I'm sure the show airing out of order doesn't help 😖
When you call Marinette out for being creepy many people use the counter argument that cat noir is too. Even though when you investigate it it's sort of falls through because at least he's not sniffing her things and doing just weird creepy s***. Like tomorrow remember he only has some pictures and try to date her.
Also yeah she isn't really loyal to her friends I said that on tiktok. That she only appears to be around her friends if they can be of use to get Adrian.
@@Office_chair i only do that so people don’t use it against me.
I also don’t want to sound hypocritical accusing one person of being creepy and not the other.
I also wanted to show how the show acknowledges Cat Noir’s bad behavior all of the time to the point we can’t even compare the two.
Yes, i agree. He does develop and improves himself. I wish the writers did not play his two bad traits up to a hundred at times. And he is not as creepy as Marinette.
Also, I cannot yell at a guy who changed everything about himself (shouldn’t have even been one time) to keep his miraculous or impress the person he likes. At that time, and every time before that, he has to prove he is good enough to fight alongside her as a partner. I can’t complain about someone after that.
@@Office_chair don’t have tick tock. Sorry.
And agreed.
Wait what- I mean, I never thought so but you do have a good conclusion
X3
I'm glad you think so! ❤️
I never had a crush. I think that led me to question if I'm aromantic. I'm also asexual.
Freaking thank you for also mentioning Chat Noir's bad traits too. Even though yes the reason behind Adrien's/Chat Noir's behavior makes more sense, but even so that doesn't mean it is any less messed up as you said. Just keep up my gurl.
I think it could’ve been interesting if Marinette’s stalking of Adrien ended with her accidentally discovering Gabriel is Hawkmoth. Then it would at least contribute to the plot. Make weakness a strength or something.
That would actually be really cool X3
For some reason this reminds me about Abridged Kirito. He is a total asshole and a psychopath, Abridged Asuna too. But both of them eventually grow as people in a certain way, particularly with Yui. When Yui "died", they thought she thought that they didn't truly cared about her, when in actuality, they did. They faced consequences and learned. And I love both of them because of this evolution. Now I wonder how interesting would be to see Marinette and Adrien as full-on yanderes.
I love SAO abridged x3 It's hilarious and the character development is great!
I'd love an official anime with two yanderes in love with each other x3
I tend to view Marinette's behaviour as the result of her ongoing inability to actually express her feelings to Adrien, and if she ever manages to actually spit it out, she'll probably get a lot better. Not instantly, of course, but she'd likely get better. The real problem is that they're both lead characters and cartoon teenagers, and as such are not permitted to have actual romantic/sexual relationships. This is not the writers' fault: teens in entertainment are required to be all but asexual.
I don't think them being teens in a kids show is keeping them from being a romantic couple. It's entirely the writing and what the show is going for. MANY shows do this thing with couples that they don't get together until like the final episode and the whole show is about the build up. HOWEVER, most other shows do the build up a lot better. It's not working for MLB so the reveal and confession just need to happen cuz its too drawn out. They can totally be a romantic couple and keep things innocent >__
There was a comment on another video about Ladybug which sums up the main flaw of this ship, in it, the person states that the people that the main duo love are lives as Marinette's in love with the Adrian persona he puts up for his father, but dislikes Car Noir which is the real him as when in costume, he can freely express himself. Meanwhile, Adrian loves Ladybug, which is the persona Marinette as that when she(for the most part) shoves her less desirable aspects into a box, but she can only do this because Ladybug doesn't have to interact with an Adrian on a daily basis.
We know this because in Kuro Neko, when Cat Noir quits, he is 'replaced' with Cat Walker which is just Adrian acting more like his school persona, but by acting more like her crush, she could barely function-so much so that by the end of the episode she had him stop being Ladybug so that the old Cat Noir could return. She tries to claim her reason is that he's 'too perfect' but we all know it's because this girl can't function whenever there's a pretty boy around which I wished was explored as maybe she could question her feelings for Adrian if this new person can get similar responses from her without trying.
Same thing with Adrian as he would(hopefully, he's not the brightest when it comes to social quos) could notice that Ladybug's finally starting to return some of his feelings, which was the whole point of his new persona, but then he'll also realize that she's not falling for the real him, she's falling for the fake Adrian-the one that acts however his father wants him too, which could make him question both her feelings and himself.
This new thing in their relationship could be want pushes them towards Kagami and Luka respectively as Kagami wants Adrian to be more assertive, and confident in himself so he could seek her out for help in that which could lead to the two actually developing a positive romantic bond.
Meanwhile, Marinette would go back to Luka as unlike Adrian who just sees her as a friend-he knows all her secrets, including that she's Ladybug, and still cares for her as a possible romantic interest. So he could be a good bet for a person she could turn to now that her confused about her true feelings. So in a way, the two possible love rivals for the duo would serve as safe harbors of a sort.
I'm so glad you pointed out Mari's enablers! For the longest time I couldn't place why I didn't like Marinette but would adore similar characters like Juvia from Fairy Tail, it made me feel like a hypocrite lol. But when I realize it was because the supporting character's lack of reaction to how problematic her behavior is, it was like oh...that makes sense. The fact that Mari's stalking/inappropriate behavior wasn't used as a gag or for comedy, just made the show too...wtf for me to watch anymore 😅
if you like charcters who are creppy in one way another like marcy but get called out marcy is codpendent on her friends so codpendent on her friends that she trapped them in another world and yes there are two other reasons for her doing that she is implsuive and doesnt like change but still and she tryied to excuse her actions and she is obssed with video games and even though she likes other things thats the only thing she focuses on earth but atleast its callled out which why i like marcy but with normorna she is creppy is obbssed with paline relys on paline for happness and none calls her out not even herself or her mom so if you like normorna your a hypocrite but if you dont and only like marcy and or other obssed charcter then you are not even marinette and adrien get called out more than her i like normorna dont get me wrong but i find her anoying and if you dont find her anoying then your a hypocrite but if you dont your not
I can see your point, it would have made the story much better. Too bad in cannon it isn't what happen.
That the thing that made me drop this series.
marinette action never get any criticism on being a creepy stalker, never get scolded for it either, despite what she is doing is morally wrong and disgusting! yet everyone cheers for her to keep doing it!
so yeas I'm not going to bother with this series or ever finish it.
Not going to waste my time on a creepy stalker that everyone support for no good reason.
I know I'd definitely be frustrated too. So I just don't partake 😖
@@TheArtisticAloubell it's better to not partake XD will save you a lot of anger and frustration from the bad writing
I haven't watched it yet but what I guess you talk about is AKA what I would like to happen is just to get some development on her creepiness. Not just Marinette but Cat Noir too.
Imagine: Adrien is getting ready for school when his Father calls him. Within seconds, Adrien rushes to him. He sees Natalie with a shocked face. Adrien is confused until he finally sees what they're looking at. There, we see Marinette having snuck into Adrien's house again, not knowing about the Camera that had recently been planted on the wall she usually climbs on. Adrien can not believe this. Gabriel tries to stop him, but Adrien insists on going to school and talking to Marinette himself. Marinette is chatting with Alya about her Ladyblog till Adrien walks in. Marinette blushes intensely and gathers the courage to wave at him. But instead of his usual "Hi Marinette!", he glares at her, shocking Marinette, Nino and Alya. Chloe notices this and giggles. "See, Dupain-Cheng! I knew Adrikins would come to his senses! Isn't that right, Adrikins?" Marinette looks at Adrien in disbelief. Adrien almost apologizes but then remembers the footage he saw, and keeps silent. Chloe laughs as tears flow down Marinette's cheeks and she rushes out of the classroom.
(I don't care if her stalking gets resolved, I just want it to be acknowledged-)
Development and consequences would be so good and beneficial for this story!
Seriously though like there needs to be an acknowledgment like she's literally getting away with breaking into his house sniffing his items and obsessing over him and stalking him.
@@Office_chair Ikr, It was fine in season 1, but it just went off the rails...
@@AlienFriend yeah at least in season 1 and maybe two it was more normalish like you would see that in shows like a Johnny test and the fairly odd parents. Or like my OC who stalks another one of my OCS but in a funny way.
@@AlienFriend but after season 2 it just went off the rails and became borderline obsession and things that look like yandere Chan would do.
what do the writers miss in the show? The scenes that Fu really talks and teaches Adrien, listen to what he can't express to anyone, even with Marienette, he has to be strict when she did bad things and make her a better person, from that she could get rid of her unhealthy obsession for Adrien. The biggest opportunity that the writers missed is Fu can be the connection for Mari and Adrien, so yeah this is why the show is getting down and down
💌 I have to say, I never even considered marinette's stalking actions more than "haha shy girl is quirky" before
lol
I didn't mind Marinette's behaviour that much at first, because I thought it would be her having a crush on a famous boy and slowly realizing that he's a normal kid like her, and developing a healthy relationship. But nope, she just got a crush on a random guy from her class, and now stalking him. Plus the show keeps going on and there seems to be little to no consequences for her actions🤦♀️
In season 1, i thought her creepy side was good from a narrative standpoint. It allowed her to grow and develop as a character, but now it is annoying and frustrating. She never learned from it. She never evolved and that is the fault of the writers.
Also, I used to love this character and now I hate her because she keeps upping the ante and becoming a worse person.
I did do some weird stuff but as soon as I got a bad response from it, I never did it again. And it was third grade. I humiliated myself and kind of him, but it was only one day.
Marinette does this and worse every single day. This is what I am frustrated with.
Why take pictures if his ad next to the school he is in? You see him everyday. You have something better than a photo.
Jeez.
Even if she does get reprimanded, she just yells at them and doesn’t listen which makes me hate her more.
I hate that I hate her because I used to love her and again, that is on the writers.
I'm sorry for the frustration this show has brought!
Hopefully there's development that sticks in Season 5! 😖
@@TheArtisticAloubell here’s hoping.
Yeah in season 1 and maybe two the creepiness wasn't that bad because you would see that with crushing girls like in Johnny test or like for fun with one of my OCS who stalks my other OC.
A lot of people tend to not like Marinette because of her being a stalker, for me, the reason why I don't like Marinette's character is because she ain't interesting enough for me to care. At least her stalker tendencies spark my interest in her character because I can see the character learning their mistakes in the future. Now she does learn some of her mistakes but it doesn't impact the story making it seem like she could get away with anything.
I honestly hope there will be more scenes with Marichat where they grow closer.
Eventually, they would both grow close enough to tell each other about their true feelings- what they're doing (addressing the problem), and then the other would give advice (giving a solution to their problem). Maybe at first, they're reluctant to change- but over the course of half a season or perhaps even an entire season, they will find out that the others' advice is actually helpful. And then the writers can take one of two routes- one where they both realize that they're not good for each other, and while still being friends, they find a new partner, or the other where they end up together, in a non-problematic way.
Honestly, for being adults, the MLB writers are pretty bad at writing dynamic characters. Like- why are Chat's problems (usually) addressed, but not Mari's in the show? I get it's supposed to be a 'feminist' series, but, um, we women should also be called out for our creepy behavior! And then, when stuff seems to be going well in the series, they pull a 180 and throw out all that potential! (i.e. Chloe's redemption arc)
Same
I blame ASStruck.
“Healthy relationships and character development is way too complicated for the show’s audience of exclusively 6-year-olds.”
- Astric probably
Apparently Mari used to be in love with Kim. But that episode just seems like an excuse for her stalking situation lol.
I love your opinions
Thank you ❤️
Cat also does stop at times for a while and then Ladybug flirts with him so he starts again only for her to tell him to stop. So there is the annoying thing of Ladybug sending mix signals to him.
💌 I completely agree on your video having the Marinette and Adrien learning from their mistakes by people showing what makes a relationship healthy is for the show.
Yes! 👍✨
i personally thought that marinette's stalker-ish behaviors could lead to her turning to a complete villain and maybe even taking advantage of the fact that adrien's house is empty when there's a supervillain to explore his room (sort of similar to Cat Blanc). she could get punished/arrested for her behaviors and when explained everything on the news, adrien learns that he has some of the same behaviors and tries to grow and develop himself to be better while noticing the absence of ladybug, realizing her identity, and maybe completely moving on from her, finding a new love interest, a source of happiness, or just spending time with his friends to prove that not everyone finds joy in love.
hawk moth could slowly work out the details of how adrien's mood was affected (before adrien's developement) and try to take time off of akumatizing others to accompany his son and help him the way he can. adrien can also find another source of happiness through his father if their relationship strengthens. gabriel/hawk moth could make a public apology to everyone in paris for his actions and work in community service, raising money for rebuilding things (like the damage the supervillain had done in paris during the nyc mlb movie if it connects to the tv show), etc.
and maybe marinette could have some developement during her punishments idrk bsbasgvj
but its a children's show so this wouldn't happen
It was so weird hearing someone else say my name but it was so cool at the same time xD
✨❤️😎
Let character flaws be character flaws. 💌
also may i add that cat noir lied about his relationship with ladybug out of jealousy (and got someone akumatized in the process)
Oops! I forgot to add that one >___
@@TheArtisticAloubell no worries!
i was way too shy to do literally anything about my middle school crush, to the point where i was embarrassed just to sit next to him. however, I must've been pretty obvious about how i felt because everyone knew i liked him, including him, and he certainly didn't feel the same way. i don't know how marinette has the audacity she does.
Tbh I hope the show give the characters proper development coz clearly both Adrien and Marinette need it badly coz I have the feeling that people will end up hating them even more if the characters doesn’t receive proper development
Yup!
Yeah Adrian needs more of a personality and maybe to not be so blind.
And Marinette obviously needs it because her only trait appears to be basically being a pick me and obsessing over Adrian.
One of my friend used to crushes on a lot of guys in our middle school from time to time. Crazy thing is, they are all people whom I know one way or another. Hell, some of them are dudes in my classes. And she went real crazy, one time she gets moody because she saw her crush talk to a female classmates of his. I told her that's stupid to be jealous of and she calls me judgmental. She still does that, and whenever I point out something, she calls me judgmental. And I agrees with her, I tend to be a bit judgy.
Can we just take the time to appreciate how aloubell took the time to say everyone's name and I mean 188 people and for reading basicly every comment once again 188
😎❤️✨👍
This show is the reason I began having creepy tendencies as a kid. Since Marinette was my ‘idol’ and I never saw her in the wrong. Slowly adapting to her personality and creepiness (I was 8).Getting obsessive over people very easily . Which, I have been working on (I.e therapy, self-therapy) . Since, many classmates called me out on my creepiness . Like recording every single second of an event . Taking photos without consent (used my mom’s phone). But tbh, it also stems from my family problems and not wanting to forget happy memories or people. But, This show is what truly ignited it, since I remember copying marinette’s behavior as idolism.
Oh no DX
Thank you for sharing your experience. It's very informative to see how this show and its decisions can affect people irl!
I pray things are much better with you nowadays!
Yayy!! You're one of my favorite CZcamsrs and I just got a shoutout from you!!!! Thank you Aloubell!!! And you pronounced my name perfectly!
THANK YOU for your help ✨😁❤️
And you have a cute name x3
@@TheArtisticAloubell Thanks!! 😄😄
*Hears about Marinette and Adrien's offenses*
Astruc, they're TEENAGERS
For me, don’t let her be a stalker nor have any creepy moments. Also, the fact that she nearly kissed a wax statue of Adrien, but wasn’t is awful. Imagine if a different version of Marinette and Adrien would react to this, she would say to her, “You’re disgusting.” Here is how I would write her. She and her family just moved from a small town in France all the way to Paris. In any case, she would be nervous and super anxious. Plus, the most tragic thing is that she had no friends back in her home town. However, after becoming Ladybug, she becomes more confident and less shy, however, she has a friend group consisting of Alya, Nino, Adrien, and later, Chloe. That is how I would write her.
Side note, in my version, she is so clumsy that she causes accidents. In other words, wherever she goes, disaster abounds.
“Don’t any of you tell me you didn’t do something stupid to get your crush to notice you or hang out with you when you were a teenager or adolescent.” Well I never did that because I’m aroace and never had any real crushes lol 💌. I can’t relate to these kinds of romantic subplots at all, but I still actually enjoy watching them and writing them a whole lot. A lot of other aspec people I’ve seen don’t like romance plots due to that inherit disconnect, but cute fluffy wholesome romances are something I love seeing in media. Unfortunately Miraculous can only give the illusion of cute wholesome romance while handling it in an extremely toxic and unhealthy way. I agree that these toxic behaviors from the main characters can be shown as long as it’s handled well and shown as flaws that the heroes need to overcome instead of positive traits like the show tries to make it seem like. I’ve heard that Thomas Astruc won’t be on the writing team for season 5, and he seems to be the main cause for a large portion of miraculous’ writing problems, so I hope that with him gone they’ll be able to save this shows writing and make the characters learn and grow. I doubt it’ll be that simple as to have everything magically fixed the moment he’s gone, but I think it’ll be good for the show. Honestly my biggest hope is that this show gets a reboot a few years down the line and is remade from the ground up with all new writers so it can be written better from the start, so many good shows get rebooted for no reason, why not reboot a show with incredible potential but poor execution.
Like as everyone said. All they had to do was CALL. HER. OUT.
But NO they encourage it. Both her friends and the writers!
And I consider them such hypocrites for calling out Cat Noir but not Maribug? Talk about double freaking standards.
Lastly, they botched the alternative love interest.
They did Luka with a BIT of respect. But not with Kagami. That was a messy... MESSY break up.
I agree that they should have been with Luka and Kagami, at least a season or two. Just to take a break from each other.
But if the studio REALLY wanted the main two as the final couple. Then there is still away to work around it.
But they clearly don't want to fix it. They think what's been happening is fine the way it is.
And that's one of the main reasons why I dropped the show.
The frustration of this show is why I don't partake DX
It's really a shame too with its untapped potential >__
@@TheArtisticAloubell agreed on the potential part. Especially considering some people, like myself, got into miraculous thanks to the fan fictions.
It's quite simple, actually.
1. Marinette starts out as somewhat creepy and obsessive, and it's clearly portrayed as a character flaw. It's closely related to her lack of confidence and excessively energetic personality. Her creepiness is not excessive, however - sure, she may keep a bunch of pictures of him in her house and gush over him, but she doesn't break into his house or follow him across the world to China.
2. Marinette slowly lets go of those bad behaviors, through lessons she learns each episode, as well as her own friends calling her out. She learns to become more reasonable due to her responsibilities as Ladybug and understands the importance of being calm, composed, and logical. Cat Noir can also help her become more confident - I love Lady Chat as a friendship, not as a romantic ship.
3. Marinette and Adrien slowly become closer and closer friends, and she becomes less awkward around him. Once again, this is character development - she learns to be more confident and less awkward as the episodes pass. By the end of the first season, she and Adrien are very close friends and can talk perfectly normally to each other, and Marinette understands now that the best way to enter into a relationship with Adrien isn't to obsess over an idealized version of him, but to simply be his friend and get to know him more.
I agree! If done properly Mari gets called out or gets consequences for her stalkerish behavior she'll get character development by learning that her behavior towards Adrien is wrong that'd be very neat , also thank you very much for the shoutout in the vid! 😄 💌
THANK YOU for your help ✨😁❤️
@@TheArtisticAloubell no problem 👍
I agree too she needs to get consequences and get more character development and try to go after Adrian in a more healthy way.
@@Office_chair yea
@@reemraghad4267 like the way she's going after him is super creepy and obsessive. Like I literally said on tiktok that I swear she's only friends with some of her "friends" to get close to Adrian.
Thomas also mentioned marienette being shy even before she got bullied
Wow
Amazing video. 💌
Yes, I agree. Marinette's and Adrien's behavior could've been a good thing in the show if
1_ They were called out for their behaviors. And Mari's friends wouldn't have encouraged and enabled her.
2_ If they learned about respecting boundaries in a natural way.
Anyways, thanks for the shout-out.
Thank YOU
@@TheArtisticAloubell ☺️❤️😉
yay I made it into the video!! 💌 Thank you for talking about this topic in the first place, I feel like it's a missed opportunity that it doesn’t contribute anything to their character development, as it could have been so much better executed as is. BUT maybe the only reason for that is because it's.. well... Miraculous. MAYBE (and I hope so) they will get over these habits in the next season, given we're getting the reveal SO a lot of things could be changing after that episode. Also that Magical Girl Ladybug is so cute :3 keep doing awesome ❤️
Thank you for your help with the community post! ❤️
And hopefully good development happens in the show!
Disclaimer: I have not seen the last 2 episodes of season 4 yet.
From what I've gathered online, Ladybug does broke down in front of Adrien and Chat Noir, proving to him that she does have imperfections.
(I could be wrong and if I please tell me)
Yes, that did happen, but technically, from what I understand, she's admitting to treating him badly and to her faults as a guardian. Which is good! Don't get me wrong. I'd also like her to acknowledge and change from her obsessive behavior towards Adrien as well x3
Teenage crush life sucks! It's hard to solve the "teenage crush" problem. I had that problem too!
If the people around them acknowledged that their behavior is problematic and creepy instead of encouraging it (cough cough Tikki and Mari’s friend group cough cough and idk who on Chat Noir’s side-) and they would’ve realized their faults, it could’ve worked. cause Chat Noir is seeing Marinette’s creepy behavior and Marinette is seeing Chat Noir’s, they should realize at some point that they’re both actingthe same way, either make them develop before becoming a couple or just don't make them a couple at all- I agree with your comment so much. Or maybe because Marinette is LITERALLY a middle schooler, they maybe could’ve used that as a route where Mari is unaware of how horrid her actions are and the people around her like the 1000-year-old immortal Kwami and her parents react to that and teach her that it’s unhealthy and horrifying. Callimara (a CZcamsr) also made a good change to the story. In her redesign video of Marinette, she changed the whole obsessive crush thing into a route where Marinette isn’t interested in love, and because of the influence her friends have on her and the people she’s surrounded with (and the fact that Paris is the city of love), after telling her friends about the umbrella thing and them encouraging her and telling her it’s “true love”, she tries to pursue a romantic relationship that she is absolutely disinterested in. That would’ve been such a great way to go about it honestly.
Also, I love the drawing nice job❤️😭💌
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment!
And I'm happy you liked the drawing. Thank you
@@TheArtisticAloubell I’m honestly shocked you read all that, it just shows you’re a great CZcamsr and care about your fans and that made me happy❤️
And np, the drawing is truly amazing so I was just stating the obvious
It really could've been satisfying seeing her being called out for some really disturbing moments, because the moment she sniffed Adrians bed, I was like "Yeah, I think someone needs a nice word with the police"