Heartstopper - 2x04 "Challenge" - REACTION!
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
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#Reaction #Heartstopper
Ben: "I haven't spoken to you properly in ages. How was your first day in Paris?"
Charlie: "Why are you talking to me? I don't even know who you are." 🔥🔥🔥
I know it would never actually happen because it's not Charlie's style and he was withdrawing due to his trauma but I would have laughed my head off.
I would have SCREAMED lmao
😂😂 man how I wish Charlie said that and burn him. That would of been the perfect come back
I think the reason no one knows that Nick speaks French is because Nick himself doesn't really think about it that much. He barely sees his dad, which would be only time he'd really speak French, so it makes sense that he wouldn't think of it as worth mentioning. But not only that, Nick has closed himself off for a long time. He's not used to sharing pieces of himself, especially the pieces that are more painful, like his dad's abandonment. I doubt he'd spoken about his dad to anyone before this trip.
French girl here🙋♀️: Kit did a great job with the French! He sounds quite comfortable, and the phrases used are not too formal. His pronunciation and his accent are quite close to someone who's fluent but doesn't use French on a daily basis.
Awww bless him, let's go Kit!
Tao and Nick on the coach: He's also finding someone who is bilingual. I don't think he expected to find common ground with Nick, but he's suddenly presented with two things they have in common.
Good to see you back.
Harry really said "I'm fine with calling someone a homophobic slur but I draw the line and misogyny"
Well, also Imogen is part of Harry’s friend group that she hangs out with every morning.
@@danieloneal7137As insecure as Imogen is about her friendships (and tbf they do not seem like particularly meaningful ones), it definitely seems like she’s better liked in their friend group than Ben, from the way Harry and others defend her in this scene, and then the fact that Ben seems isolated from the rest of them afterwards.
If you rewatch Season 1, you'll realize the food stuff was there too.
Imogen has shown that despite her heart being in the right place, she's still clumsy regarding LGBT issues and is awkward when speaking about them, so I think she didn't realize mentioning Charlie could bring harm. She didn't know their history, she only saw her boyfriend always looking at him and trying to talk to him, and I bet many people would be like "hey, why are you obsessed with him?" if they saw their boyfriend do that. To me it always came off as her simply stating a fact that anybody could see if they looked closely. Ben was the one acting sus, Imogen was just the first one to say it out loud.
Imogen didn't really think when she named Charlie I think. Almost like she didn't see the possible implications, and just named him as 'the other 'friend' you're (ben) obsessing about'
Only afterward did she realise I think
SO sorry for the wait on this one, life indeed has been life-ing but we back in business!
Take your time don’t worry as long your great and doing well 😁
It’s completely fine :) take your time
Prepare yourself for the rest of the season 😅
worth the wait!
I LOVE that she called out Ben in front of everyone. My 15-year-old pointed out, and I agree, that it would have been dangerous for her to call him out privately. Remember, Ben assaulted Charlie for calling him out in private. I have no doubt he would have physically attacked her as well if it had been done in private.
That’s actually a good point Ben is so dangerous especially in private and being called out in private would have been very dangerous for her.
I saw someone else mention, Tao was probably also surprised to see that Nick was also bilingual in that scene on the bus. Not only is his previous enemy dealing with an absent father, he's also bilingual. They are different languages, but still something they could commiserate on.
Imogen absolutely wins this episode. Not only did she have that fabulous scene telling Ben off, but she also got a giant Nick Nelson hug afterwards.
A queen truly deserving of her crown
Charlie’s food problem has been present since the first episode of season 1, it’s just hidden.
In season 1 we saw:
When talking to Mr. Adjay about Ben, he has his lunch box but doesn’t touches the food.
After he “broke up” with Ben, we see him having a bowl of cereal and he’s just playing with them but doesn’t eat them.
At school we never see him with his lunch.
At the cinema he refuses the pop corn.
After the huge fight, we see him opening his lunch box and immediately close it.
When he is borderline suicidal, Tori ask if he wants some Pizza and refuses it.
We see it also in the first few episodes of season 2:
With his breakfast.
With him lying about eating a at Nick.
And now
And the chocolate bar in S2 E1
If anything, Ben draws attention to himself when it comes to people potentially suspecting he's not straight. He spent the entire first season loudly proclaiming to everyone that he didn't know Charlie and had never so much as spoken to him - and now he's suddenly trying to be chummy and seem interested in Charlie's day???? How does that not raise eyebrows within the friend group? I mean, we as viewers know better, but as far as Harry and the others are concerned, Ben and Charlie are virtual strangers, so Ben suddenly chatting away like that at Charlie must seem a bit suspicious, surely...?
Harry, you're my MVP reactor in Heartstopper reactions. Really like the series 1 and now in series 2. You explore the characters so well, asking questions, trying to go deeper into the backgrounds ... Liking that you have not just binge watched, but taken the time to think about what is happening, your sharing of thoughts. Cheers, X
Awww thank you! My favourite shows are always the ones where we can dig into the details and talk about it all, makes it 10x more fun!
As far as Nick’s accent goes, it’s hard for me to tell because I speak Canadian French and the accent is different, but his grammar and sentence construction are incredible. I was beyond impressed by Kit in this episode, he sounded like a native speaker.
As a France french, I agree, sometimes his pronunciation is a bit british but overall he sounds pretty well. It makes sense considering he might not be speaking french that regularly since he doesn't see his dad that often. Overall he's very good if I compare him to other "french" characters speaking french in other shows
Outing requires the person doing the outing to have information Imogen doesn’t have. She is innocent of even approaching a charge of outing; she’s simply speaking her mind and hitting closer than she knows.
I think the way they had Charlie and Nick be in separate beds in Paris had to be added in like that, because they want to keep it the same as graphic novel but there’s a huge difference of Tao not knowing that Nick and Charlie are together yet at this point in the graphic novel which is why he sleeps in the other bed to split them up. So Tao’s reasoning kind of makes sense in the show, but you can tell they had to find a reason for them to keep that still lol. It still is very in character for Tao though
Yes! I was going to make the same comment.
I buy the reason Tao gives because he’s so wrapped up in his own feelings and it feels in character for him to project them onto Charlie lol. But it might have felt more believable (and funnier) if he was just like, “No, I’m not letting the two of you share a bed and keep us up all night with your canoodling and whispering of sweet nothings”
@@normaladjacent yeah definitely! Even though they did have to find a reason, it’s so in character for Tao to do that anyway. I think Tao in a great character to have in that way lol, because he has a certain type of personality that would make it easy to find reasons for him to do stuff like this to split them up from sharing a bed. He’s a loyal af friend, but I can imagine him being like ‘absolutely not, you aren’t sharing a bed while I’m here’ because he tends to act like Charlie’s dad a lot of the time. I can literally imagine him using the ‘no hanky panky’ line that Charlie’s dad actually uses
@@clover2739 Exactly, his reaction to seeing Charlie’s hickey is hilarious, he is *so* melodramatic!
Harry, mate. I just love your reactions bc it's like sitting with you on your couch at home and talking, discussing and exchanging thoughts about heartstoppers.
As much as we are all shipping the Nick x Char relationship, I also love how the core group of friends are coming closer together.
Is it “shipping” if they’re the central romantic couple of the entire franchise?
18:17 Agree 100% about Ben not being worth the effort of trying to redeem him. I think he's a nascent narcissistic psychopath. Let's sever ties and move on.
20:33 😭I’m dead the switch up in his tone of voice
07:12 I love the Jus de Pomme as a token and reminder of 'friendship'
That is why Tao and Elle like each other, not any of the complicated 'romance' stuff (like the site Tao used and then changed himself somewhat)
I think the key thing with the comparison Harry and Ben is that all the problems with Harry come simply and directly from his ignorance. He's not even stupid as such, he just literally doesn't get the significance of what he's saying a lot of the time. That's no defence, of course - but nevertheless, his ignorance ought to be much more readily fixable than the problems with Ben, which run much deeper. So yeah, I tend to think Harry isn't as bad as Ben - just because I think Ben causes pain in a much more calculated way. I think what we can take from the restaurant scene is that Harry has been around girls and women enough to know not to call them the b word, but not around gay people enough to know not to use the f word. But as you say, that shows he has some kind of moral awareness at least and probably simply needs a short, sharp bit of social education. That said, I do also like it just as an authorial flourish - "look, Ben's being so unpleasant even Harry can see it..!" :D In terms of Imogen outing Ben - unless she'd seen something offscreen she didn't actually know for certain if that was what she was doing or not, so I think she would never have gone much further that what she said because she simply didn't know (at that point - I suspect her interaction with Charlie afterwards will have removed any doubt, despite Charlie and Nick very deliberately not saying anything further to out Ben). Nick had very carefully not outed Ben to her when trying to warn her off, so Imogen couldn't be sure.
Yeah, Ben is worse because his bullying is specifically targeted to cause the maximum amount of hurt. It's like he sees through people and zeroes in on their in securities. Harry just throws insults at everyone and hopes someone will think it's funny.
I 100% agree, Ben is much worse than Harry. Harry is your typical bully that thinks he's being funny and doesn't know better, he's not self-aware enough.
Ben is way too self-aware, he just likes causing other people pain, he knows what he's doing. He chooses his words so that they deal the most damage.
I also like how they added this to show that Harry can be redeemed. He's a homophobe, but homophobes can learn to become allies, and just because they're homophobes doesn't mean they're horrible people in other aspects. People are complex, they have their bad sides as well their good sides.
Idk, I don’t think what Harry called Charlie at the cinema was just him not realising he shouldn’t-if anything, that moment plays to me like he’s deliberately building to it to provoke Nick.
@@sandramatras8345 I wouldn’t even call what Ben is doing as bullying. He is an abuser, not a bully. Harry is a bully. I feel like that is the main big difference between them.
@@thegabrielhydeI agree. But I also think it wasn’t necessary to be mean to Charlie. He was saying it to bug Nick, he probably couldn’t care less about Charlie at that time. He just likes to pick on people who give him a reaction.
About the potential outing. You said about someone being openly homophobic/abusive, which is all very well and good for audiences to know that behaviour, yet Imogen has no idea about who Ben truly is; only having known him as longtime friend then (shit) boyfriend. So logically to her, she probably doesn’t even know at the time she would be close to outing him, she’s just calling out the behaviour that she’s seen and doesn’t like - “pay attention to me and not Charlie”.
Now, should she have said that specifically in a super public setting? Ehhh the jury’s still out on that one. Perhaps once Charlie all but confirms something happened with Ben, maybe she would realise what she was implying. But also it’s a high school: to say something like she did and expect nothing else like rumours to come of it is naive and it does get touched on later.
Your little giggle is so cuteeeee❤❤❤❤❤❤
About what we see from Charlie, I wonder if his best friends have noticed he doesn’t eat much before - because they spend a lot of time with him and would have noticed for sure and have mentioned it to Charlie? Also his parents as well.
I think at 11:20 you're thinking of the word "adapt."
I was thinking , speaking of Imogen outing Ben. Mayby I'm wrong but in season 1 episode 7 technically speaking Elle outed Nick to Tao too when she told him about Nick and Charlie. Tao even said that Nick was as straight as can be. And yes Tao kind of guessed it himself when he asked Elle but as far as i know no one ever told or confimd him that Nick was not straight. He only got confirmation when Elle told him about Nick and Charlie.
The way how the show is integrating characters like Imogen and the teachers proves that they don't want to be just a "queer show" obviously we as queer people have different paths as straight people, but everything comes from the same issues, and is something that not only happen in high school, people can live and feel the same experiences at any age, queer or straight, and that's an issue we should normalize, the doubts and fears queer people lives, straight people also feels and they don't externalize those issues cuz the world think being straight is everything resolve but it not.
I live the awkwardness with the 2 teavhers is mimicking the awkwardness all the teens had with their blossoming relationships. I think the reason Charlie wants to be more open with their feelings for each other is down to his deep rooted insecurity that Nick isn't as committed to them being a couple as he is (the whole Ben still torturing him thing), because if this Charlie seems unable to notice how Nick looks at Charlie him with such adoration it appears that Charlie is the only person in the world and everyone else doesn't exist.
Welcome back 🙂 Thank you for another great reaction.
Omg the eating in a small cafe brought back memories from my trip. Me and my friend got the times wrong (so we were 30 minutes late). We had to take the metro and we all had 3 tickets. But the first time we got off at the wrong stop. So we had try again haha. After eating we went to the Eiffel Tower, we used the lift.
Also the many bridges with the locks on it 🥺 If it wasn't so excessively everywhere, (and not damaging the bridges support) it would so much cuter.
Very similar to Heartstopper's trip which is awesome!
04:33 Same. We went on a school trip in the 4th year of... highschool? The dutch version so we were like 14, 15.
Anyway Paris was nice, I like the big open streets but the tourism is a lot. And all the shop selling the same souvenirs.
The louvre was great though! And the Mona Lisa was smaller than I thought XD. I actually liked the painting behind the Mona Lisa more.
I dont think Ben dated Imogen as a "title". I think he was kinda trying to prove something to Nick (he acted couply with her only when he noticed Nick looking). But he clearly didnt like her in that way and his miserable self was dragging her down (beautifuly shown by their outfits in this episode. Him all in grey and her in her most colorful outfit of the show)
As for outing, while I totally agree on outing when it comes to like politics figures working on anti lgbtq laws, here it's a 16yo and outing him will not help the situation in any way. And also, Imogen's comment put attention on Charlie which we know makes him uncomfortable.
But all the rest of her monologue, 10/10
Tao is scared of being lonely because of his dad dying in episode 2 it will explain where he is
27:16 Totally agree with you in your assessment of Charlie's feelings overall. However in this specific instance, I think it's kind if valid to want to stop. If I was sharing a hotel room with my best friends and they stepped out for 5 minutes to go to a vending machine, I'd definitely be wary of making out with my boyfriend on top of me 😂 I get that the writers are definitely showing us Charlie's anxieties, but this one time I'll let it slide.
Also, the only people who would open that door without knocking already know. Here, I definitely don't think he's nervous about outing Nick, like you said.
Agree as much as I wanted it to continue if Tao and Isaac walked in on that, that would of been very awkward for all of them
22:13 It is tricky - I’m uncomfortable with outing people out of revenge or the determination they don’t deserve the ‘protection’. BUT I think if Nick told Imogen in the process of telling her Ben is capable of assault and here is how I know it, he would have been right. Her safety would be more important than his comfort at that point.
Yeah, Tao is projecting his feeling onto Charlie. But obviously their situations are different. Nick and Charlie are together so they LIKE that 'electricity'.
I think it would have been fine for Charlie to out Ben to Imogen in order to warn her. Outing him in general, not as much. I feel slightly differently about like a politician or the like who uses their influence to advance anti-queer things. I'm perfectly fine with them being outed. For a similar reason. They're dangerous.
To be fair, it would be kinda awkward for Tao and Isaac to walk in on that too and they already know they're together.
Nick and Charlie didn't share a bed because that's how it is in the comic, Tao doesn't find out about them being together in Paris - a lot of reactors have commented on that.
Ben wasn't using Imogen for the title of girlfriend - it was more covering up the fact he did what he did with Charlie, for image's sake.
I'm grateful you're only halfway done so I don't have to be traumatized for a few episodes more!
If I was Imogen.. Like, no matter how much I like Charlie, I would feel sorta weird about him. First she has a crush on Nick, who ends up dating Charlie. Then she gets together with Ben, who turns out to have an obsession with Charlie.... Even if it might be irrational, I would feel weird with fuure boyfriends around Charlie xD
No shame on future partners, or definitly not Charlie, it's just a funny situation
Speaking of make-up, the only thing giving Kit Connor away (for me as a non-French person) about not being native French speaker is how he seems to blush whenever he speaks it (at least in most of the scenes if I remember correctly, I remember noticing it when I was watching the first time). I wish the make-up team had been on it to cover it up a bit especially in the next ep (it causes unintentional yet cute irony in a scene), but yeah, I love that Nick can speak it so well and that everyone is rightfully amazed by it (nothing more attractive than language proficiency to me at least, so I could relate to the reactions, lol).
And I have to say that it's really REALLY nice that this story is so 'clean' (i.e. the teens aren't jumping into bed right away, pun intended, using drugs or all dunking alcohol in crazy amounts etc.). I have seen people complain how it makes the show feel unrealistic but to me this IS realistic - in my own friendship bubble, we didn't do that stuff either, so this is my experience to the letter, and I'm so happy I'm finally seeing it on screen. I guess if more shows would do this kind of teen representation, the current teens wouldn't feel so much imagined peer pressure. I bet most of the teens are actually like this.
@@keltavuokkoyeah, we’ve gotten so used to tv and movies portraying teenagers as hypersexualized party monsters that seeing teens who aren’t feels wrong to some people? Anyway, the story gives us some pretty obvious reasons why Charlie (body image and mental health issues) and Nick (just realized he’s not straight a couple months ago) might not be ready yet.
@@danieloneal7137 Plus Charlie literally just turned 15 last season - they don't need to be ready, they are literally kids, with their first partners. And I love that the show is setting an example of how to deal with this kind of stuff. That you can have those awkward discussions and it's perfectly fine to not be ready until you are. More of this in the media, please.
1:11 I have a wild theory-- maybe I'm totally projecting here, but I wonder if Charlie is maybe low-key, passive-aggressively punishing Nick AND himself with these suggestions of not sitting together and trying not to kiss. Probably not a popular opinion, but there it is.
What comes up there for me is how Charlie has this lack of boundaries around other people’s feelings (real or imagined)-for example, when he says in episode one that he can stop Nick ever feeling stressed or anxious, when that experience belongs to Nick; or in season one, when he assumes Nick won’t want what he wants, and says, “Sorry, that was stupid, forget I said that”; or how he later talks about starting to believe things that were said about him. For me, Charlie denying his own needs and desires in this episode (the way Harry identifies) comes across as not separating himself from Nick in a healthy way.
That is a very interesting point. My personal headcanon is that he is just doing things to not make Nick uncomfortable but I can definitely see your argument. Could even be subconscious as he keeps a lot of his feelings to himself which would definitely cause him to unintentionally lash out.
I absolutely think it's subconscious, probably more so regarding the idea of punishing Nick.
I think it’s more likely to be Charlie’s anxiety about Nick being outed before he’s ready, like Charlie was, that’s motivating him.
There are a lot of scenes in this season where Charlie explicitly says he’s worried about Nick being outed and bullied, and there are subtler moments too… like in episode 5, when they’re on the Eiffel Tower, there’s this moment where Charlie reaches out to brush his finger against Nick’s, then hears other kids laughing at something totally unrelated, looks stressed, and pulls away. Nick clocks his shift in mood and looks a bit confused and concerned.
We saw this in season 1 too, when Charlie repeatedly assured Nick he wasn’t obligated to come to his concert, and later admitted he was worried that rumors would start about Nick if he did. He also asked Tao not defend him against Harry because he didn’t want to give Harry any reason to lash out at Nick.
tl; dr I think because of his past trauma Charlie is much more hyper-vigilant than Nick, and determined to “protect” him even to his own detriment. I think Joe even mentioned in an interview that Charlie is more stressed about Nick’s coming out than Nick…
I knew you were going to love Imogen's queen moment! Ben deserved the public dressing down for being such a creepy asshole!
Charlie has shown, again and again, that he will put everybody's needs before his own, especially Nick's. It's not particularly healthy, but it's a core character trait of his. Knowing what he's been through being outed and severely bullied, he would do just about anything to keep that from happening to Nick, including burying his own needs and feelings. That self sacrificial tendency is a big part of what Ben preyed upon.
Season two absolutely doesn’t redeem Ben, but I’m interested by how it does show him as more vulnerable, self-loathing and alone than season one. Whether it’s intended or not, it’s curious to me that in the midst of Charlie’s ED storyline, Ben’s response to being called out at dinner is to storm off, leaving his plate of food behind.
Spoilers for later conversations in the show:
I agree with a lot of the comments here about Imogen, I don't fault her at all. I think we need to see her outburst along the same lines as Tao accidentally outing Charlie. With straight privilege comes a lot of aspects about being queer that just...aren't considered? And mentioning Charlie would definitely spark some rumours, similar to how the rumours about James and Charlie happened because they have the gay label on them. Imogen wouldn't consider how that comment could cause harm, similar to how Tao wasn't thinking about being overheard. It's not malicious, and they both clearly caught on after and felt bad and I think THAT is what we are meant to see--- because by seeing their unknowing actions and the guilt will clue a lot of straight allies into the little ways they can cause accidental harm.
It's a clever little parallel and I'm just constantly amazed at the depths this show goes to to further educate and normalize queer experiences.
11:48 Your thoughts here kinda give my low-key punishment theory some traction.
I feel like such a ben apologist but my brain just keeps telling me not to be too brutal because there are kids out there like Ben, kids that cant come to terms with their sexuality without hurting others. Idk, I know none of it is okay, and there needs to be changes made to Ben (if he were a real person), but at the same time he is a child. Other children might act similarly, hear the comments we make about a character they relate too and feel even more hopeless.
OK: Would someone with better hearing or a better sound system tell me whether
-- while Nick is sucking on/kissing Charlie's neck (eventually creating the hickey) --
did Charlie really say/mouth "Oh. My. God."?
I have weak hearing, so I try to read lips. And that was what I thought I saw.
Can anyone confirm that?
Maybe ? He definitely didn’t say anything so it was just mouthing it but I’m bad at reading lips
The f-slur doesn't bother me. I think I grew in the part of the late 90s that thinks of it like Louis CK
People forget that Ben is 15 like he’s a kid. Outing a 40 year old homophobe who is cheating I can understand but not a 15 year old.
I don't know that you have to discuss every scene for 5 minutes
Tis how we do things here ♥️
A reactor shouldn't... react? Just watch the episode then lol. I'd get it if he was talking over the show and missing things, but he's pausing before speaking. Mad respect for that, that's definitely the way to go.
That’s the point of watching someone react to the show/movie is to see their thoughts, at least he’s pause it before talking so he doesn’t miss things like a lot of reactors do . If you don’t like them keep pausing it maybe don’t watch reactors and just watch the show
@meowcraft2403 I have nothing against pausing? . This is more like listening to a wannabe therapist explain stuff that's already obvious for more than necessary.
@@1HalfbloodPrince Just don't watch them then, if it's not content you enjoy then that's fine, but there's no need to be a negative sally
been waiting for this one 🥹 welcome back!!