Load development for Precision Rifle. (The Scott Satterlee method v2.0)
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- čas přidán 26. 01. 2021
- Kili continues with her lessons on reloading for precision rifle with Scott Sattterlee. This week she learns load development. Scott has changed his methodology since "the Satterlee method" originally came out. This episode will cover: load development, Finding Jump, Velocity testing, how to interpret groups, and positive compensation.
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I didn’t realize Dana White was so knowledgeable on load work up
Thank you and Scott S for making this great video. Efforts much appreciated. Same with y’alls other videos. Looking forward to next weeks.
Thanks for watching! Next week is trueing and BC!
New reloader, what a wonderful video. Clear, coherent. I'd enjoy to see more videos like this one. Thanks!
Really enjoyed these videos. Very informative and great to learn about proven techniques and, more importantly, what I should be focusing on and what I don't really need to worry as much about. Thanks for putting these together and I'm looking forward to next week's video.
Thank you and thanks for watching!
Good set of videos these ones, Scott is a fantastic teacher.
Shared it in Sweden
Thank you! We loved doing this with Scott! - Kili
Fantastic video! Great info and great questions you asked Scott!
Thank you! -Kili
This is a great series. I can't wait to put this info to use. I'm really digging the new Saterlee method 2.0. thank you so much for this
Thank you! The next one comes out tomorrow!
Thank you! The next one comes out tomorrow!
This was Tremendously helpful! Thank you Mr. Satterlee, and new subscriber to your channel Kili!!
Thanks for taking the time. Makes me feel more comfortable about running more jump. I’ve always started 20thou off and seated in 3thou increments maxing out at around .060 off. It’s eye opening to see you working up a load covering such a broad range to start when gathering that initial data. I’ve darned near used half the life of a 6Creed barrel learning about this cartridge and trying different things. I’m not going to waste the shots on the next barrel. I think the main takeaway here is don’t be afraid of jump.
Eric cortina always said don't waste your time chasing the lands....
Great stuff Guys.
Thanks for making this video, very informative 👍
I'm weird I guess. I never had any luck seating bullets out close to the lands. People would look at me out of the corner or their eye when I would tell them that. I'm glad someone on Scott's level is explaining why jumping bullets a long way works. For years I just loaded my stuff and went with it. Thanks for interjecting on the status quo.
Mine doesn't like a short seating depth. About 20 thousandths off the lands is its sweet spot.
I did watch full video and am thankful. Kili questions were a little to basic for Scott. It is great that you have a friend with Scott's skillset to glean from.
Thank you!
What a wonderful video. Keep it up you too. Bring Scott around for more nuance.
Excellent video Scott and Kili👍👍 inspiration to many PRS shooters. I've had great success with what is mentioned here
Thank you!
These are awesome!
Great content Scott! Proof positive "jump" is your friend.
Nice job. I'm a lifelong shooter but have never had training by anyone that knew their stuff. So many good PRS shooters just blow through their explanations. Because Kili wants to learn it forces Scott to slow down and explain. The result is we all learn.
Scott seems to be the nicest guy ever. Just this week I’ve sparked an interest in hand loading and it’s super intimidating, mostly because I over analyze and end up with analysis paralysis. I love the way he explains everything in a non condescending way. Cheers from Raleigh, NC.
Scott is great people
@longrangewiththelillys1221
Regarding the amount of "Jump" off the lands....
Is this technique something that will work on my .308? 5.56?
I've not heard of this much jump until I stumbled onto your channel
Ty
Foster
Hey Lilly’s! Can I just say this is one of my very favorite channels? I’ve watched most all of your vids and have learned a lot. I know you’re probably a little frustrated to not see more subs, but do know that those of us who are here are loving it. Thank you!
Thank you for being here!! We are thankful for all our subscribers and the genuine quality growth we’ve had so far. We are almost at 5k and in January of this year we only had 500!
I love listening to Scott talk lol. I like his logic too.
Hey sure appreciate the videos. Brother I'm listening and taking this in. I hadnt been doing this long but have worked up loads for 3 different hunting loads. I hadnt made it to max charge weight on anything tho due to getting into some pressure signs. Nothing major just really flat primers and/or primer cratering. I see you started at max. Not saying this is wrong but I been told alot to start low and work your way up. Thanks o much and I will listening to anything reloading you put out
3 gunner/uspsa guy but new PRS. I've been watching a lot of matches and NRL and seen you guys on there. Pretty cool you have a CZcams channel. Subscribed!
Thank you! Welcome to the other side!
Best Laurel and Hardy I’ve seen for year’s
Tip when measuring base to ogive: the comparator is offset for a reason. They were putting the case on the wrong side of the caliper, so they were measuring with the cartridge at an angle. Either rotate the case 180° to measure from the other side, or remove the comparator and flip it (putting the thumb screw on the other side of the caliper).
Great video, love the Satterlee method. The one thing I would like to know is how Scott tunes loads for Weatherby's with all that free bore.
Best explanation. Plain vanilla. Best way of doing.
It was an awesome way to learn for me. Thanks for watching. ~kili
Good data.
Gold.
This has to the simplest route to load development in reloading that I've ever seen. I can't believe how quickly he lands on these results.
That’s why we love it!
The proof research barrel helps a lot
Hell yes!
Yeah I’ve had issues chasing the lands before. Bullet got stuck in the lands and I ended up with 60 grains of powder in my action when I tried to eject the round without firing. I’ve had no issues getting sub half MOA in my bench rifles by varying powders and primers alone. These days seating length is the last thing I tweak. I find a powder and primer combo that works best and then I may mess with seating depth as the last variable.
I laughed way too hard at this. I love this hobby but man does it piss me off sometimes 😂
I can understand worrying about bullet jump and all that extra brass work for benchrest but PRS you don't need benchrest accuracy.
Dana White at 26 second mark teaching reloading
I used to Jump the bullets, but not anymore.
There are 3 measurements with regards to C.O.A.L. or seating depth. They are Jump, Touch, and Jam. Jam is the ONLY ONE you need to avoid. Often there will be 30 to 50 or more thousandths between Touch and Jam measurements. Jam is also neck tension dependents. The more neck tension you have the deeper/longer your Jam measurement will be. On my 22GT I load 7 thousandths INTO the lands. The same with my 30-06 loads. First I find "Touch", then add 7 thousandths to that. I've tested from 40 thou jump to 15 thou into the lands and found that 5 to 8 thousandths was the most accurate. The bullets NEVER "stick" in the lands. I can load and eject rounds all day without any bullets sticking. JAM is what you want to avoid. That is the distance that a bullet will "stick" in the barrel. If I'm loading at 90+ thou off the lands, I may as well just buy factory ammo.
I usually find my load first with a .020 jump, then fine tune the jump after tuning my pdr chrge. I find that jump rarely makes much difference at all.
I'm shooting 6.5 creedmoor but I'm limited by mag length. My magazine is 2.805", which is about 90 thou jump. If I seat any shorter than 2.799" then the bearing surface will be below the neck shoulder junction. Is it okay to seat the bullet shorter than the junction?
We try to not seat below the neck/shoulder junction. But this question is best left to Scott. He’s the expert. Feel free to reach out to him via social media.
Great video... big fan of "law of diminishing return." Did any freebore have to be added to the proof barrel or did it come stock with enough freebore to complete the latter test?
It had enough.
So would it be ideal to have your scope dialed in on 0 before you do load development? Or Just enough to be on paper and wait until the load development is finished to zero in?
You’ll want to be close but POI is going to move around so it doesn’t have to be exact
When developing a load does Scott prefer a horizontal dispersement string or vertical?
Neither. He wants it to be a group. Vertical and horizontal stringing are no bueno.
Question! Your chamber seems to have a lot of freebore. So doing a jump test out to say .100” are you staying inside of any other perimeters? Like case neck shoulder junction to avoid the donut area? I’m wandering if this test is as successful in older style chambers like my rem700 243 win.
Of coarse as soon as I ask a question I find the answer two minutes later. Scott explains this in another interview. czcams.com/video/myj7Ygy8ljo/video.html
If I can ask a couple questions, do we first go off the load which has the smallest extreme spread, then tweak the bullet seating depth? Or other way around.
I have a Tikka T3 6.5x55 and can’t find the lands using a Hornady Interlock 160 GN RN. I’m sure the bullet would fall out of the casing before it jammed.. does this sound normal with this caliber .
Thanks for a great video, I have been reloading for many years, and one never quits learning..
We don’t have much experience with the tikka’s so we can’t give any input there. As for seating depth vs velocity we’ve seen it done with success both ways. we tweek velocity first then seating depth.
This is a GREAT video - intelligent questions from a nearly-new perspective, and incredible patience and thorough explanations from a consummate professional. Question: while I followed everything dealing with the powder, I got lost at the part where the video said "don't do math in public", cutaway, and cut back -- did not get where those numbers came from, and so, did not follow the session out by the target. Help ?
I’m not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase?
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 At 14:56 and "That's going to be a jam..." - then numbers just appear with no explanation . . .
so when you make a cartridge a little longer to get the bullet closer to the lands, you increase empty space in the case. does that make a difference to the initial pressure? does the amount of empty space matter at all? or is it only about the jump?
We’re not the experts, but our understanding is that It does make a difference but it’s small. Jump is more important.
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 my load data gives a COAL of 2.74" but its better to tune the length to match the barrel. got it!
Wish I had seen this before I started working up loads thinking that 0.012 was too big a jump! Might have a do-over for jump STARTING at 0.012 and moving out from there and then re-shoot my ladder through the chrono to see if powder charge weight has changed. (my pooooor barrel!)
Oh and I was loading some .223 plinking rounds on the trusty Dillon while watching. I ran out of BLC-2 powder and changed to 748 just as you were talking the extreme spreads with the different jump and I FORGOT to reconnect the link for the powder drop and must have run a dozen rounds while watching your totally awesome video before I realized that I had dropped NO POWDER. Already had the 223 collet puller in the RCBS single stage so didn't lose a lot of time but realized that even though loading VERY FAMILIAR rounds, I gotta PAY FREAKING ATTENTION.
I have done that with my Dillon as well!
Just for my own clarity:
the first loads are all the same powder charge (~max ()56.8gr) from the manual), working BtO = 2.250" down to 2.100" in 0.030" jumps from jam (for a total of 0.150" off that jam)?
That is correct. Although Scott typically STARTS at .050” off. He started at the lands for demonstration purposes.
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 - thanks for the reply, I'm 1/2 way through this vid, and I see that he comes back to that :)
When you guys tested bullet jump and then tested for speed. How did you settle on the jump of the bullet for the speed test? Did you find the best bullet jump then make a 2nd trip back to the range and test speed?
Yes, we shot the jump test. Then went back and shot a 10 round velocity test..
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 How do you select what’s the best speed for the jump test?
@@comloz Scott’s method is to go to the manuals and use the max load. He finds that the manufacturers are still conservative for liability reasons.
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 Thank you very much. I look forward to the next episode.
Did I understand you guys found the optimal jump before doing the satterlee ladder for charge weight? I had always heard of doing it in reverse. I’m really interested in the change here
That is correct. Scott now does jump before velocity. He finds it’s more efficient and takes less rounds.
@Scott Satterlee thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences Scott!!
What kind of Greyboe stock is on the rifle you're working with in the video?
Question for Scott: Would the process of finding jump still apply for load development for a precision AR given that mag length is probably already jumping a lot?
Excellent, excellent video!
I did. 1st barrell, 1st time doing it. it made a huge difference,
Works the same. Since you’re restricted by mag length, you might not have .000-.040” as an option.
At what distance was Scott doing this test? I've been told to do this test at 300 but this doesn't seem to be that far.
100 yds.
You're starting your jump @ .050 off with 3 shot groups to find the least horizontal dispersion @ max charge. Then shooting incremental single charge weights with chronograph velocities recorded to find a node. Anything that I missed? If shooting a larger magnum cartridge would half grain increments suffice? 28 nosler holds roughly 90ish grains of water
It would make sense with larger case capacity to use larger increments but this is a good question to shoot Scott Satterlee. He is the expert not us.
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 ok, how do I get in touch with him?
The best way is through Facebook IM
So if you get 2 touching and one flyer, then what do you recommend? Less or more jump or less/more powder?
This is a question for Scott. . But I think it depends on how the group is shaped. Different group shapes mean different things.
Scott, thank you very much for the response. I'll figure out how to upload pics and post them.
@@johnkrol5917 I'll be interested in this too.
So are we looking for a flat spot/plateau or just after?
For velocity we look for a flat spot.
You guys need to heat that shop! LMAO!
Wouldn’t him looking for positive compensation be nullified after the powder charge work up?
That’s a great question for Scott! Feel free to ask him through any of his social media. I’m afraid you’ve exceeded our knowledge base.
What powder measure system is used in this video?
Scott uses a different system than us. We use the same scale. (fx-120i) but we use auto tricklers
Thanks for the name drop, Bro!(Sis)
The cartridge you're loading isn't listed anywhere on this page?
6.5 PRC. We cover all of it in the first episode.
Long Range With The Lillys thank you I’ll have to go back and watch them. But it is customary to always label the round you are explaining. You guys are doing a great job.
@@14goldmedals thank you!
What’s the stock on his 6.5PRC? Good video 😎😎
Grayboe
👍
Finally found a video not telling me to do 0.003" steps in seating depth
Just to confirm, you start at .050 off and work further back from there?
That’s what Scott does yes
For PRS would using the Hornady LnL AP press be less precise/add more variation to an unacceptable point versus using the single stage RCBS Rock Chucker in the background? Or was the Hornady just used to prep the brass, develop the load for this video and you intend to use the single stage when loading in the future?
we and Scott both use use progressive presses for all stages of reloading. He uses Hornady and we use Dillon.
Hi Kili, is it possible to follow this load development method with a magnetospeed V3 or would the attachment to the rifle greatly effect the results? Thanks!
It would be better to use the magnetospeed to get the velocity then detach for groups. Also now there are mounts out there.(gray ops inc) that they make so the magneto doesn’t touch the barrel.
The steps after looking at the target to determine what to do next and what you looked at weren't detailed very well. Also seeing the velocities you were looking at while you were talking would be helpful.
Yes this.
I’m confused at the charge weight spread when they were doing the final test. I heard, “choosing one grain and go up .2” soooo .2 from where? The max velocity already shot?
Dang Scott. Get some heat in that shop. Hahahaha
Right!? Actually we had to turn the heater off for the audio. It was freaking cold.
Where do you buy components for load development? I'm totally rationing the components i have left.
Times are really tough right now. You just gotta keep looking and when you see them buy them
Love the elevator music 🎶... lol
thought it was porn.
Distance you test at that day, Scott?
100yds
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 just did some 2 shot groups at 200 with 105RDFs, kind of a halfassed ladder test had 2 different loads touching, .040' off
Check out Erik Cortina chasing the lands is stupid video’s for Precision bench seating depth test.
6.5 Creedmoor?
6.5PRC
Was all this done at 100m
100 yds but yes
0:41 _THAT'S_ not "jump"! Everyone our age knows _THIS_ is jump!😁😅 czcams.com/video/010KyIQjkTk/video.html
OK, maybe not in the same terms...
Do your research folks! 🤦🏻♂️
Just say seating depth. There's no need to use random terms like "jump" people watching this are most likely novice reloaders and you're going to confuse then making them think it's like an entire new characteristic to the reloading process they didn't even know of when in reality....its just seating depth. Stop saying it like you're going to kill a barrel in like 100 shots. I've gotten thousands of rounds out of a pencil barrel and aftermarket heavy barrels before it even remotely starts sacrificing accuracy. And stop snorting the snot in your nose
Thanks for all the helpful input. But seating depth and jump are not the same thing. One is a measure of how far a bullet is seated into the case. The other is a measure of how far the bullet sits from the lands. Seating depth has a direct relation to jump but they are not the same measurement.
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 clearly it isnt the same measurement but a difference in jump is in direct relation to what??? Seating depth. Nobody who's a halfway decent reloader loads according to bullet jump..they load to seating depth.
Well respectfully I disagree. And I think your comment that “nobody who is a decent reloader” refers to jump is highly inaccurate. Scott Satterlee for one is a highly respected shooter and is widely renowned for his reloading methods. If you want to come on here and try and trash people the least you could do is impress us with all your credentials. You seem pretty stuck in your opinion and you’re entitled to that I guess. But the example I will use is I have multiple rifles in the same caliber. That all like a different amount of jump with the same components. Also as the lands erode your jump increases as stated in the Berger bullets reloading manual pg149. I feel like I trust berger as a established authority in reloading
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 so you have multiple rifles that all like different seating depths? That is correct. My "credentials" are ive been reloading for 10+ years and can probably out shoot you with any gun you put up and that's a fact point blank. I've had people call me out on here and ive had to school then so they can sit down and shut up like they should. You talking about a term because that's all it is...a term...and trying to make it the basis for a reloading process is just plain stupid and it's wrong plain and simple. Youll get it one day maybe..keep trying sport.
A whole ten years… wow that’s impressive. Lol. Well you’re welcome to come to a PRS/NRL/NRL Hunter match and “school me up” thank you for wowing me with your expertise it’s been entertaining. I’m guessing the reason you get “called out” a lot might be related to how you approach discussions. Just a thought