#2 Mzilikazi Khumalo challenges King Tshaka
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- čas přidán 1. 04. 2020
- As King Mzilikazi became more and more powerful and the discipline and success of the Matabele more renowned, Mzilikazi meets a man who talks about things he cant envisage and brings with him, items which challenge everything he knows. photo: ZimfieldGuide.com
- Komedie
Interesting narration gogo from a nonMatebele gogo. I am the great grand (7th Generationson) of the Senior Induna and personal friend of the King - Chief Mbungwana Matshazi, who was in Tshaka' army with the king). You skipped over the Pretoria/Johannesburg years (ENkungwini era) as well as the Rustenburg years. Then of course the migration trip from Rustenburg to Zimbabwe from information garned by our scouts and the qdvice of Robert Moffat as a way to disengage from the Boer fights over the King's cattle . When the Nation was divided with the King going through Botswana to the Zambezi border and Chief Kondwana Ndiweni and the other Chiefs going through over the Limpopo into present day Matebeleland with the women and children. Infact the first encounter between Mzilikazi and Moffat occurs while he is still in South Africa. The One you discribe is the Second One gogo. My Great Grand Father does not talk about savagery at all as you view it on the part of the King. He presents Mzilikazi as a warrior, a diplomat and Nation builder. Children and women in particular we never killed but taken to the kingdom HQ and distributed to the warrior families as a Nation building practice :abantwana bomkhonto. We never killed anyone who was not armed. That is why all the tribes we found in Zimbabwe and to the North are still there to this day. That is why later when the younger King Libengula had disappeared to join King Mpezeni's people in Zambia during Impi yaMahloka when Rhoades Cecil approached the Matopos unarmed noone killed him. So the savagery is over played in the narration gogo. King Mzilikszi was never like King Tshaka in how he ran his affairs gogo!
I know that the King used to say that Moffat was His father in place of uMatshobana whom King Zwide had killed when Mzilikazi was young and that was the reason which made him to go and join Tshaka's army in the first place to avenge his father butral death in the hands of King Zwide.
King Zwide left KZN while still a formidable force gogo and migrated North with his people, which is why he fought through Zimbabwe until his people settled in Zambia, Malawi and Tanzania. Which settlements are still strong and exist to this day. But thank you for making your contribution to our people's history. I love the passion and ethos you tell it with.
Hello Dumiso Matshazi - I agree with so very much of what you say and loved reading your family's personal interaction with King Mzilikazi. I did indeed skip over the South African influence, largely because there was so much to say about the King's move north - in my book The Horns, I dwell at length on Moffat's respect for and friendship with the King and vice versa - i think each was as fascinated by each other ... and I love the fact that King Mzilikazi joined Robert Moffat in a trek north to try and find David Livingstone. Much of my research was behind the writing of The Horns based upon my three best friends when I was a child - Dumiso Dabengwa, Ernest Bulle and Prune Madeya . . . but I was not writing a history book, I wanted their stories to come alive to a white audience as well - so there is fiction woven in amongst it to move the story lines along. You are right that King Mzilikazi never forgave Zwide for killing his father matShobana and with his lively mind, he enjoyed learning about things from Moffat, that he had not know about before - which was why he was happy to grant Moffat land an Inyathi to start a school. In The Horns the children argue among themselves and all come up with the same answer - that King Mzilikazi was a great king - as was King Lobengula - but to control 20,000+ people without the modern help of police patrols and gaols among other things, meant that any punishment the King meted out, had to be sufficiently awful to ensure that whatever deed had caused it, was not repeated. I hope you will be able to listen to a few more of the 14 podcasts and that you might find a bit of better balance within them. I would very much like you to keep in touch and let me know your feelings.
To all Ndebeles the ndebele tribe alone was not build by the zulu nation alone,if you enter Botswana king Mzilikazi has vivid trails where he settled.In Ramotswa the Balete tribe are part of the ndebele tribe left behind(meaning salani li lendile,the king and his troops then went to a place called Modipane with his induna gundwane passing thru oodi Matelebe,in Oodi we hv a lot of khumalo sir names,dlodlo ,Mashobane, Ncube etc but these are all Batswana but evidence of the Ndebele trails.The ndebele army left to a settlement called now the modern Sebele in the great Gaborone,Sebele named under Batshele Sebele a great induna under Mzilikazi, frm there the Ndebele worriors forged north to attack the great Khama in Serowe,Khama managed to repeal the ndebele invasion,they then forged to the north to Mthwakazi.
Now this is someone who knows the truth about Mzilikazi.. 🤞😒
Thanks Ouma for this beautiful peace of History. Well researched..
Thank you in turn Prince Ndlovu - for your encouragement. The researching is not easy as there seem to be many, many different opinions for every single thing that happened - even from the best sources. So you have to sit and remember the stories of your childhood, and the likelihood of what was happening to influence each decision or happening. I do appreciate your comment very much.
Love you lots ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ There's always people like this Gogo
Thank you so much Sean. Hope you have been able to listen to some of the others in the series and enjoy those too. 😄
Another fascinating look into the past. Most interesting.
Fascinating = This history was taught in school briefly = Such a great leader starts a NEW empire and is hardly known 👍👍👍
Such a shame isn't it - wonderful, colourful history which we might all have appreciated a little more than Clive of India!!!! so glad you enjoyed it
What a superb presentation. Thank u go go, makhhulu. The black Gogol in a white persons. Skin. My grandma narrated that to us every night . Thank u for the memories
You compliment me Sero Zero - thank you ... I was fortunately to have been brought up in Matabeleland and my three best friends were amaNdebele boys. I learned from them - and from my father who taught me to respect and love the history. So glad you enjoyed it - and hope you will enjoy the others as much. .
Best story telling,l wish a movie can b made abt Mzilikazis story
It is an incredible story blue . . . I am so glad you enjoyed it. Perhaps one day . . . . . . .
Jill, that was informative and well presented.
Thank you so much and my apologies for missing your comment, so that i did not acknowledge it.
Thank you for this.
This content is incredibly important. The gift of discovering myself through an exceptional orator is a treasure
thank you Karl - my apologies for not getting back to you sooner. Your comment is so much appreciated and I can think of no finer gift to you than hopefully, discovering more of who you are through these discussions.
Hi Karl . . . I have a series of interviews with Chief Ndiweni coming up shortly - if you subscribe to my channel, I will be happy to know that that you will be able to listen to them.
Jill, what a great story!
Greets from Germany!
Good to hear from you Peter - hope you enjoy the series
Ich liebe dïch 😂
How come I don't know this history and I'm Ndebele. What a way to discover your own history! Very interesting historic information. I've never been glued to a computer screen like I've just done listenning to your research. Pliz keep it coming masulu, I can't get enough of this information.
Hi Tim Moz ... I am very pleased to hear that you enjoyed the programme. Im afraid the wonderful old days when we all (including me!) listened to our Chiefs and Elders telling the stories, has gone. Especially now that Ndebele history is not being taught in schools. There are 13 stories in this series, this url might help you find some of the rest. czcams.com/video/AgNrQl4eYLE/video.html
If you'd like to be kept in touch as each podcast goes "live' please click the Like hand and register. also love to hear from you with your thoughts and comments
Very informative! You from Zimbabwe by any chance?
@@snubcapri8691 Born in Matabeleland!
@@JillBakerZim interesting 😊👍🏾
thank you..from a salisbury boy..
You are very welcome
Thanks so much for the history Ouma👏👏👏👏
I am so pleased you are enjoying them Loveness - being a Dube this will involve so much of your history as well. I hope you have been able to enjoy the whole series ... and i hope to be starting a new one mid year.
@@JillBakerZim we thank you👏👏👏
Beautiful, ngiyavuma [I agree]
What a vibrant and wonderful history it is Nkazimulo ... I feel privileged to be able to share it with you.
Interesting Mzilikazi name sells ....nice
Thank you Methuselah. Very pleased you enjoyed it.
Jill, we need more of that history, thanks a lot
Thank you for your encouragement - what wonderful, dynamic history it is.
Yes give us more I felt I was listening to an audio book ..very dramatic great detail
@@snubcapri8691 Audio books are next on the list! Glad you enjoyed it.
So interesting, well researched and narrated. Thank you Jill.
Great to catch up again Allan - hope you are well - and that you'll find out some interesting bits and pieces. Stay safe and well
Well researched.. How would you know?
Mzilikazi was King Shaka's right hand man and they had a common enemy Zwide who was killing all the chiefs to expand his rule. In 21st century you still believe this crap.?
Hello Allan - have read and muchly enjoyed your writings! Thank you! Thought you might be interested to know that I have a series of interviews with Chief Ndiweni coming up shortly not sure if you are already subscribed to my channel, but if so, will get the information and be able to listen to them. Good encouraging and very informative stuff
Like this book
Love it as much as I miss the land and the people.
My goodness, I miss it too! So glad you enjoyed the story - it is just so important to keep telling our history - particularly as it is not being taught in schools any more. So so sad. There are other programmes in this series, and if you click this url you should be able to find the others.
Love the history you presented madam
So glad you enjoyed it Lawrence - I hope you have listened to some more of them and found them interesting. Always interested in your comments.
Just discovered ypur channel,am watching from Algeria ,,i like view of events from Jabu’s perspective!!,,,c’est tres interessant eqinisweni!!
Good to hear from you in Algeria and glad to know you are enjoying Jabu's perspective. in reality we were 'twins' both born on the same day - a very special relationship. je suis tres hereux de savoir que vous regardez depuis l'Algerie.
Beautiful
Excellent! This book will be my birthday present from my daughter, who only yesterday asked me if I'd any thoughts about what I'd like! Perfect.
Delighted to hear that Tim - do hope it enhances your library and fires your imagination again.
@@JillBakerZim Thank you for your words. I am sure I will fully immerse myself. I haven't watched television for over thirty five years (too much dross, and dis/mis- info for me0. I prefer selecting from You Tube, as a second option after reading books. Easy for me, as I was a full-time boarder at school in the early 70's(no T.V). For me, a good book is unbeatable. Go safe,stay in peace.
Great
Hi Jill I'm currently reading Wilbur Smiths Balentine saga and wondered how close his story of the Matabele people was to the facts . I really enjoyed your presentation and will subscribe most definitely 👍
Hello Peter . . . many of Wilbur Smith's books had a sound skeleton - but of course it becomes more and more difficult to keep to the narrative the more you write or the more you have to use ghost writers to keep up with demand ... as you have to keep those characters believable and colourful! He has done a great job in bringing to life a fascinating, disciplined and innovative people - who have been so sadly minimised through 'fake news' and deliberately and maliciously targeted.
@@JillBakerZim thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my question Jill . 👍
Thanks for giving us information
great pleasure Andile - I am glad you enjoyed it.
Very interesting.One of the greatest nations.
So glad you enjoyed it Luleka ... it is so vibrant and full of interest. I will be bringing you more later this year.
@@JillBakerZim Thank you. I will keep on checking.
Beautiful history...would be nice if you could make a video of zwangendaba
I will let you know as soon as I am able to start putting film/video together . . . what a story it would be Joshua
Brilliant
Thank you Arthur - hope you've been able to listen to the whole series.
Perhaps as you go further you will certainly highlight e boundary of e Ndebele kingdom. This will assist some pple to realize that Zimbabwe had 2 states within it ....thank you for e lovely history Gogo omhlophe !!
I most certainly will do so sdumiso ncube . . . the writing is well under way soon for book II of the Zambezi Trilogy. it will be talking about the things we should be talking about . . .
I like Ndebele history keep it up, I also want to know what happened about the whereabouts King Lobengula what happened about him
There is some confusion about what happened : essentially the King left Bulawayo behind riding on horseback, having set fire to his capital, as he realised that the forces against him, using guns, were going to overpower his people with their short stabbing spears. He left with his Queens and people, heading north - speculation is that he wanted to cross the Zambezi to set up Matabeleland across the river (as the Limpopo was not a defensible frontier). There were reports that he was seen in Zambia - near Fort Jameson (not sure of its name today) . . or that he had died of smallpox . . . but they were largely unverified. I think the prevailing wisdom from the Khumalo family is that the King took poison and was buried sitting upright in a cave, the location of which was kept secret - but it was in 'Pasha's country' The royal family asked that it be kept secret, as if his bones were never found, his heir would rise to take the throne. Hope that helps a little!
Ntaks gogo for teaching us this history we like you we love you ♥️
Thank you Njabulo
Your account of history is yours and yours alone. King Shaka and Mzilikazi were friends and had common enemy King Zwide. After the defeat of King Zwide, Mzilikazi was King Shaka's right hand man. To which he would be sent to raid other villages and they would split them according to their arrangement.
Until Mzilikazi started sending small amounts of cattle to the King and suspicion came to the King which at a later stage was confirmed by Mzilikazi's brothers when they went to the King and told him that Mzilikazi was hiding some of the cattle and only bringing a small sum of them. Thus the King sent for cattle to be brought from Mzilikazi to which Mzilikazi refused and a fight broke out where Mzilikazi's mother was killed, his sisters and some of his brothers. But word was sent not to kill him. But After the King was assassinated by his brothers the then newly appointed King Dingani sent word to kill Mzilikazi to which he deflected to what is now called Pretoria and he was persued even there and he moved to Porchesfstroom then into North West and eventually Zimbabwe raiding every town as he went
Thole Ndlovu - thank you for all that detail ... it is surprisingly difficult to get absolute accuracy and I had a terrible battle trying to work out what had really happened. I like what you have said because it rings true ... however I did find many reports that said that King Shaka did go after Mzilikazi in three big battles which was why he moved up into the bottom of today's Mozambique to gain strength again, before he moved back into the northern Transvaal. This is a small excerpt from my book The Horns. Please don't forget that it is historical fiction - so I have taken the truths (wherever I could find them) and wound a story round them. I hope this will reassure you that I have great admiration for both King Shaka and for Mzilikazi.
“That is exactly where they came from - the banks of the Black Umfolozi river. They shared it with two other tribes. Mzilikazi’s father, matShobana, was chief of the northern Khumalo. He married a daughter of King Zwide of the Ndwandwe. But it wasn’t long before King Zwide had matShobana killed.”
"Shaka made several raids on the Ndwandwe people, taking their land, their wives and their cattle each time. So Mzilikazi trained up a force of disciplined young men from the Khumalo clan, developing their strength and courage. And he resisted the Zulus each time. Each time, they fought bravely, but each time it was at great cost. They lost many clan members. So he took a group of his best young men to see Shaka.
Great insight into the history of the Ndebele people and the mfecane. I once was told that Umzika ke gazi "trail of blood " was corrupted to "Mzilikazi ". A truly feasome and brutal nation then. What contribution did Soshangana make in the mfecane?Thank you Jill Baker for a riveting narration with the video. I remember the News back 4 and a half decades ago. Thank you.
Hello African Adage - forgive me for being slow to get back to you - I am finding it quite hard to keep up . . . which is wonderful! I think that corruption to Mzilikazi may well very close - I have been unable to find anything else that fits as well, or better . . . thank you. As far as my research has shown - Shoshangane and Mzilikazi were both general's (and probably cousin/brothers)in King Zwide's army ... I can't find any evidence of the working together - but Shoshangane did take part in the mfecane in a limited way, gathering some scattered tribes on his way back to the Black Mfolozi River. He then chose to consolidate and move north east below the eastern hills of today's Zimbabwe, reaching the Zambezi in today's Mozambique. He did work closely once the Zwangendaba returned from Matabeleland. This whole area is what became his Gaza territory. Mzilikazi was better known for the ruthless subjugation of tribes in the 'mfecane as he moved from that same area of southern Mozambique, through to what was the Northern Transvaal, then crossed the Limpopo and was trying to get to the Zambezi and cross near the Victoria Falls. But the maKhololo got in his way and they had managed to obtain guns - so he turned back to consolidate in today's Matabeleland and Bulawayo. Don't know if that helps you sort the relative very large Chieftains/Kings out a little better.
@@JillBakerZim Thank, it certainly casts light on why he made the Southern part his domain and resorted to raids instead of occupation. I know of the term amagole ( g sound as in Gautrain ) which was ascribed to assimilated foreigners of subjugated tribes. These may likely be the amakhololo that resisted the northward advance. These tribes likely got guns through gold and ivory trade with the Arabs. The hilltop stone fortresses like Mangwe fort dotted in the Eastern Highlands and Nyanga National park, have small defensive apartures that can fit spears and muzzle loaders. Truly appreciate your stellar work. Have a blessed day.
@@africanadage852 Love sharing and receiving this vibrant history - the term amagole has corrupted of course to amahole but still meaning what you say. I have been fascinated to read the extent to which the Arabs penetrated as far as they did and believe that the murder of a missionary family very early on, arose because they didn't want it to be known that the Arabs were slave trading in that area. I did not know that the Eastern Highlands forts had apertures which could fit spears and muzzle loaders. So wish I had been an observer!! Great to talk to you.
@@JillBakerZim The feeling is mutual.
Hmmm interesting
Hope you have managed to listen to a few more Methuselah.
Uwazelaphi umlando wakwazulu umlung ayi ngoba njalo....
Mina ngazalelwa eTsholotsho - angiboni izwe lami nomlando wami onamehlo amhlophe noma amnyama - emehlweni omuntu othanda umhlaba nembali yawo ofuna ukutshela wonke umuntu ngayo. Nginamehlo esizwe samaNdebele.
Siyabonga gogo
I hope you enjoyed it Patience
@@JillBakerZim thank you...how we wish our kids from Zimbabwe especially the Matebeleland can learn this from their primary school level. Thank you we will share this
@@patiencemudau3078 I have a series of interviews with Chief Ndiweni coming up shortly - if you subscribe to my channel, i will feel sure that you will get the information and be able to listen to them.
Great,However i must submit that it's King/Isilo Shaka kaSenzangakhona and not "Tshaka",and they met because they heard a common enemy because Inkosi uMashobane kaMbulazi was assassinated by Ingwenyama uZwide kaLanga Ndwandwe,not that uMzilikazi kaMashobane went to lengths and might to meet with Unodumehlezi kaMenzi,because you would remember that Isilo uShaka was a sown enemy of Ingwenyama uZwide
Hello Thami - thank you for that detail ... sometimes i have used an old fashioned spelling particularly for people who might be reading my book The Horns, or listening to these vlogs ... because there is an explosive "Tsch" at the beginning of his name as spoken by the amaNdebele people which cannot be conveyed by the spelling Shaka. But certainly we are talking about the same man and I have enjoyed the extra bits of information you have give me - thank you.
Proudly ndebele from zim let me just correct you all of you its just a same word (tshaka or shaka) lina amazulu you dnt put this alfaphabet (T) ekuqalen most of your words for example thina sithi utshongololo lina lithi ushongololo or lumuntu utshonephi yithi labo ,ushonephi ngumzulu lowo thank you..
Jill is correct as she is Ndebele. We know him as Tshaka. Likewise Mzilikazi's father is Matshobane and Mzilikazi's son is Lobhengula.
AmaZulu athi Shaka, Mashobane and Nombhengula
.
@@melanienkomo1723 ze nibizwe amaNdebele bekutheni ngoba isizwe ayesakha uMzilikazi bekuyisizwe soMthwakazi usuziqhenya ngento ongayazi.
Ngubani uMbulazi futhi uzalwa Ngubani?
All is well with us here in France thank you Jill. I'm looking forward to more of your podcasts. If you're interested my new book 'LONG WALK TO NOWHERE' is being launched by my London publishers at the end of the month, COVID permitting. I can email you a cover proof if you so desire
Keep up your excellent work. It brings us all together again and allows us to gain new perspectives of our history and indeed our present. Best wishes, Allan
I will look out for that Allan - available as an e-book?
@@JillBakerZim Thank you Jill. Yes e-book version is launched today along with soft and hard back versions. Here is the publisher's link that gives full details of pre-order discounts. Printed copies will be available by post to most countries all shown on the drop down menu ....
www.austinmacauley.com/book/long-walk-nowhere
Best wishes, Allan
My grand father was called Matshazile
I'm from the royal family it's nice hearing about my great grandfather history
Hello Sean ... You had an extraordinary grandfather - a man well before his time, with the most incredible ability to look after and grow the amaNdebele people. I will be starting a new series in a week or so and a lot of this will revolve about the restoration of the royal family. If you click the Like hand and register, you will be informed as these programmes come up. I hope you enjoy them and would love to hear from you again. Jill
@@JillBakerZim restoration is happening already its just the other tribe is in power in government so the Ndebele are trying to recreate they kingdom, in a way trying to gain independence on mthwakazi (mandebele land). The king was found 2-3 years back .lts just sad seeing my people not knowing they history. I was born in south africa I'm 20 growing up I've never seen the difference between Zulu and ndebele I noticed when I was in grade six the sad thing is that we are unique as ndebeles but we don't or should I say we don't get taught our history
It is heartbreaking Sean ... I will certainly do what I can to make the problem more visible. I have just done an interview with Prince Ayanda Khumalo which will be on CZcams on February 12th. I hope you enjoy it.
@@JillBakerZim the thing is that the king had many kids my connection to mzilikazi goes like this mzilikazi dad of lobhengula dad of tshakalisa called isintingantinga se nkosi who had a elder brother who was Nyamande, tshakalisa the dad of Qedilizwe my great grandfather... We are short as khumalos thanks to mzilikazi and our resemblance as a Royal family is quite similar other villagers notice it but funny thing is we don't look like lobhengula....
That is very interesting Sean ... I know that bloodline well ... and the Khumalos I have met do tend to look more like King Mzilikazi although of course Nyamande was a direct son of King Lobengula. The Matabele people are a people of many nations, and maybe the Swazi Princes (mother of King Lobengula) must have had strong genes. So fascinating. I enjoy hearing how you fit into the line - thank you for letting me know.
Hi How suppose to be 3 king
Jill, why the African accent tho? They never spoke in English lol.
Accents are SO important in telling the story ... whether it is Scottish, French or American ... the African accents are part of who and what they are as a people - it is a wonderful accent - and as a child I spoke with that accent whenever I played with my amaNdebele friends. I could not tell this story, or give it any feeling of place and positioning, without slipping into the accent I have known, loved and lived with all my life.
This woman from "Zulu" Zimbabwe people Ndebele people knows them 😲 Mzilikazi surname was Khumalo
that is correct Snub . . . the Khumalo family are still the royal family and a wonderful people.
TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT NO ONE FOUGHT BATTLES AND WON THEM LIKE KING MZILIKAZI, MZILIKAZI AND HIS INSUKAMINI ARMY COULD ATTACK ON BROAD DAY LIGHT AND CRUSH ANY ARMY,THEY ATTACKED FRM ZULULAND TO THE MODERN DAY ZIMBABWE CRUSHING TRIBES ON THEIR WAY,MZILIKAZI FOUGHT AND WON MORE BATTLES THAN SHAKA THUS A FACT.
That is quite correct Benjamin - King Mzilikazi was a master military mind and me of the Zulu and then further improved Matabele battle strategies were watched and used by the British in South Africa.
The head induna was Ngomane
Thank you for that - can you give me a bit more background as to time and when. I would be most grateful.
I got a question to ask maybe one day you can answer it.I would like to first point out that When Welsh was brought into Argentina 🇦🇷 back in the day and remained the same welsh language you will get in Cardiff (Wales).But when we talk about Ndebele and Zulu it looks like Ndebele it’s totally different from Zulu Pronunciation wise ?Does that mean Mzilikazi was speaking a different language /Varient to Tshaka.Or he learnt Zulu from Tshaka etc.I think your would understand where l am coming from.Another good example In Eastern Cape, they speak Xhosa and it’s so Identical to the Xhosa’s in Zimbabwe 100% including the accent.There are some sources in the uk (london)which make these claims that Mzilikazi before he became part of Tshaka he was indeed speaking a different language and his man.The sources are still in the London Gallery if you want to find out more.Script Written in 1828 still exists.
Hello Brian - I will copy a section from my book The Horns which might just help a bit. I think the bottom line is that a people like the Xhosa were a much more intact tribe - in that they did not go absorbing other tribes and nation building as did King Mzilikazi and to a lesser extent King Shaka - as the tribal numbers of the Zulu were much much larger. Because of that, the Zulu language would have remained more constant. Language is always growing and changing - English itself has changed with new words added to it. But the Matabele had so many other tribes absorbed into it that some dilution or change would have been almost inevitable I think.
“Within the Bantu, the Zulus and ultimately the Matebele were Nguni people, ranging down the east coast of South Africa. Roughly today’s Zululand. There were many tribes among the Nguni, some peaceful, some militaristic, all fighting for a place for their people. Sometimes this happened by intermarrying, but oral history tells us it was mostly by killing to create fewer, larger tribes.
“Within those tribes were family clans. Mzilikazi was from the Khumalo clan, which had been absorbed into the Ndwandwe people. Do you remember our wonderful holiday at Hluhluwe Game Reserve in Natal a couple of years ago Carol?”
“Oh yes, I’ll never forget how much game we saw. Or that glorious countryside with those huge trees and rolling hills. Oh, and that big river! Just beautiful.”
“That is exactly where they came from - the banks of the Black Umfolozi river. They shared it with two other tribes. Mzilikazi’s father, matShobana, was chief of the northern Khumalo. He married a daughter of King Zwide of the Ndwandwe. But it wasn’t long before King Zwide had matShobana killed.”
“That’s marrying and killing for you!” Carol interjected.
“Perfect example - don’t worry about all these names, but you saw on King Mzilikazi’s monument it says matShobana was Mzilikazi’s father. The prefix ‘ama’, ‘ma’ or ‘mat’ roughly means ‘of’ or ‘from’.
“AmaNdebele is the name by which Mzilikazi’s people became known and it is still used by the Matebele people today.”
“Dad, I am so glad you have explained that because I never quite knew why you always spelt Matebele using an e, while most people say Matabele and Matabeleland.”
“I know, I am a bit pernickety about these things. I believe it is more correct. As the nation grew, they swept down from Mozambique, through the northern Transvaal and Bechuanaland, to Bulawayo.
“They virtually depopulated that vast area in what we have already mentioned as the mfecane or the crushing. Mzilikazi’s people became known as the ‘maTebele’, or people ‘of’ or from the ‘tebele’, the sea or the coast.
“This then corrupted over time to the way it’s written now - Matebele or worse, Matabele!
“You’ll just have to indulge your old Dad on this one!”
Carol nodded and smiled at her father - thankful he had brought her up to be pedantic over such things as well. Although, she smiled, as she thought it did go over the top a bit sometimes.
“It’s important to have that context, because Mzilikazi came from a smaller clan, inheriting the chieftainship upon the murder of his father. The larger grouping, the Ndwandwe, were gentle people - cattle, fishing, small scale cropping . . . certainly not warriors. But-” Angus paused for effect “- the fearsome Shaka and his Zulu warriors were on their doorstep.
“Shaka made several raids on the Ndwandwe, taking their land, their wives and their cattle each time. So Mzilikazi trained up a force of disciplined young men from the Khumalo clan, developing their strength and courage. And he resisted the Zulus each time. Each time, they fought bravely, but each time it was at great cost. They lost many clan members. Mzilikazi wasn't prepared to see his people killed and absorbed into the Zulus. So he took a group of his best young men to see Shaka.
“Shaka refused him. For many weeks, he stayed close by, keeping his men hard at work and showing off their discipline, athletic ability and strength for everyone to see. Reports filtered back to Shaka.
“The Zulu King was a suspicious man. So suspicious, it is said, that he refused to get married because he didn’t want any legitimate children to challenge his Kingship.”
“So, it was left to his brother Dingaan to get rid of him!” Prune said triumphantly.
“Absolutely! Shaka trusted nobody except his mother, Nandi. He regularly went to her for advice.
But as these reports on this young man of the Ndwandwe kept coming, his mother saw in Mzilikazi someone like her son Shaka. A disciplined young leader . . . who for the first time, perhaps, might be a man her son could trust. Nobody had ever approached Shaka before and suggested they work together instead of killing each other.
“Her advice to Shaka was to talk to Mzilikazi. That is how Mzilikazi and the Khumalos came to live in Shaka’s capital - which was . . . what?”
Neither of them knew, so Angus continued. “It was called kwaBulawayo!”
Prune clapped his hands.
“Mzilikazi apparently had a great sense of humour. He made Shaka laugh. He was more a close friend than just a trusted induna. For several years, Mzilikazi led all the raids on other tribes, absorbing new fighters into the Zulu nation and creating great wealth in cattle. In fact, at that time, the Zulu cattle herd was reckoned to be the biggest in Africa.
“The Zulus rampaged through the land, absorbing the fighting men and stealing the women and cattle. But . . .” Angus dropped his voice to a conspiratorial whisper, “the Khumalos were waiting their turn . . .”
He glanced at Prune. “You’re quite right, Prune. On their next raid in 1823, Mzilikazi didn’t send the prize cattle back to Shaka. It was time to build the Matebele nation. There was much feasting and roasting of cattle to celebrate that decision!
“Shaka waited a while. He was sure his friend and chief induna would return. But nobody came back. So Shaka sent messengers to find out what was happening. Mzilikazi cut the ostrich feathers off their headbands and sent them back. This was the worst possible insult.”
“What a strange thing to do!” Carol exclaimed.
“Probably not. Those ostrich feathers would have been visible signs of great valour, like our military awards, hard-won indicators of bravery and courage. Anyway, as you can imagine, Shaka was furious. Here Prune, your turn to read what he said.”
“‘He has emptied his bowels on me’, Prune put his hand to his mouth, aghast. “Is that really what he said?”
“Well, it’s what the storytellers say. It sounds a bit rude today, but I can’t think of a better phrase to describe how upset Shaka would have been. As far as he was concerned, it was war.
“Mzilikazi was ready. Shaka’s men returned that first time, with many losses. So he sent his best regiments a second and a third time. But now, Mzilikazi’s was started to get beaten, his numbers were falling. The important thing was that Shaka’s impi never found the Khumalo women and children who hid in the mountains, so they rebuilt quickly.”
“Mzilikazi knew that if he was caught, he would be ritualistically and cruelly executed. So he decided to move his people away, up to today’s Mozambique. Once they had gathered their strength up there, and almost a year later, he started an incredible journey. What grew to become tens of thousands of people in this increasingly powerful tribe moved a total distance of over 500 miles before they settled near out city of Bulawayo.
“King Mzilikazi was now the Bull Elephant. Far more even than Shaka had done, he chose very carefully the young men he would train up for his regiments, building an impressive tribe of even more physically strong, intelligent and courageous people.”
“You mean, like we are taught to do to improve milk in our dairy cows?” Prune asked.
Angus laughed. “Exactly right! The King was doing something like that to produce the strongest, most athletic warriors and the most beautiful women to make plenty of babies. He was powerful and cruel to those who did not submit to his authority. But once they became amaNdebele, they were part of the family. To them, the King was gracious and generous.”
“Who was the greater king - Shaka or Mzilikazi?” Prune asked.
“I think it is generally recognised that Shaka was the best military strategist. Mzilikazi learned all he knew about fighting from Shaka. But Mzilikazi was a clever man in his own right. He deliberately built that fine race of people from the very best of the men and women captured during raids. I’ve always thought Mzilikazi was the greater of the two.
@@JillBakerZim Hie thanks for the reply.Makes sense then the other l got a few questions l would like to ask.1 Was Rhodesia way better than Britain before Sanctions in terms of Currency and Export.Was it also a comparable force to the Union South Africa.2.What was your experience being under the Smith government because most people inclusive (Any race) are starting to wake up to the fact that Ian Smith Ran The country better than mugabe did .Most blacks especially in Bulawayo for example will tell you that.3.Why wasn’t people voting for Rhodesia to be part of South Africa back in 1922-23, like the reason why they opted to stay separate from SA.4.Would You be in a position maybe to give up a like a documentary based on your experience during the Rhodesian times.Met a lady whose claimed to have worked in the RLI ,English (94) by the way and we had chat about a little bit about Rhodesia her views were that Rhodesia wasn’t a police state like South Africa.If Rhodesia was claimed to be the bread basket of Africa.How come it never caught up with Economies of South Africa or the USA and infrastructure.I mean if you go to South Africa and you go to Zimbabwe there’s a huge difference.When l was debating with the lady about this topic , the answer was simple that Rhodesia wasn’t given more time than South Africa to Expand and that if it was given the same length of time under a responsible government Rhodesia would have been more richer or industrialised than South Africa.For a country to be deemed the richest in the region, they should be some sort of Infrastructure boom for example like China.5. Last question is that did Rhodes really know who qualified for the throne after Lobengulas Death , or he took Lobengulas sons so that there’s no no Kingship or the next generation taking over on purpose?
@@briansibanda4969 this will interest you until I can get back to you. Came in from someone today. Ian Smith talking to the whites In - 1976.
The world condemned Ian Smith as a racist, and regularly offered as proof of this a line ,from a speech he had made in 1976, taking great care not to quote the entire paragraph!
The line quoted was always - "I don't believe in majority rule ever in Rhodesia... not in 1,000 years." ....
...which gives the impression that Smith was totally opposed to having black Africans participate in ruling the country.
Read the entire paragraph below and it becomes obvious that Smith was merely saying that neither race should rule exclusively.
He predicted that pure black majority rule, without the participation of experienced whites, would spell disaster for the country, and the result is there for all to see in the Zimbabwe of today.
It must be hugely embarrassing for the world's leftist press, to realise that, in the end, despite their misquotes, Smith was right...
"I have said before, and I repeat, we are prepared to bring black people into our Government to work with us. I think we have got to accept that in the future Rhodesia is a country for black and white, not white as opposed to black and vice versa. I believe this is wrong thinking for Rhodesia. We have got to try to get people to change their line of thinking if they are still thinking like that. This is outdated in Rhodesia today. I don't believe in majority rule ever in Rhodesia... not in 1,000 years. I repeat that I believe in blacks and whites working together. If one day it is white and the next day black I believe we have failed and it will be a disaster for Rhodesia."
Ian Smith, televised speech, 20 March 1976
@@briansibanda4969 Ok - let's start at the top. 1. Difficult to say exactly because figures are difficult to obtain, but yes Rhodesia was way up there with the UK and South Africa - and in fact performing much better than South Africa in the mid 1970's. Rhodesia was held up to the rest of the British Empire as a model colony. 2. Ian Smith was unfortunate in that he had the right side of his face severely damaged during the second world war when he was a fighter pilot. As a result he seemed rather cold and fierce. I didn't vote for him and I didn't want UDI - because I thought there were other ways of doing things. But I am only now beginning to realise the extent to which other countries in the world wanted to get rid of him because he would not allow them to steal our resources. Many of these other countries knew they would be able to influence a government unused to the traps of western politics and felt they would be able to get the resources more easily. Rhodesia under Smith was an extraordinary country - more Africans per head of population being educated than any other country in Africa - better health systems - too much work and not enough people yet qualified to take it up. Difficult question, but African advancement was incredible - the only major problem was population growth - nobody could keep up with it. 3. Rhodesia was always regarded as more liberal than South Africa and I have heard the interaction between white and black in those days as one of benevolent guardianship. It is a very accurate description from my memory. Very simply the white Rhodesians in those days hated the harsher treatment of black people (apartheid) in South Africa and would have nothing to do with it - so they voted to go alone. 4. There was no police state in Rhodesia - stories you hear about Africans not being allowed to walk on the pavement etc. etc. might have happened in South Africa, but not in Rhodesia. ALSO, Rhodesia was the last piece of land in the whole of Africa to be settled by white people. South Africa had had white influence, building etc since the 1600's with true colonisation early in the 1806; most other African countries had had a couple of hundred years - Rhodesia was settled in 1890 so when Smith declared independence in 1965, the whites had only been in Rhodesia for 70 years - there was great mistrust of education until the 1940's when it was realised what education opened up. So effectively there was only 30 years to train enough black people to run the country - and this was from a tribal base which was naturally disturbed by and anxious about, new things 5. There is a lot of controversy about this - most certainly Rhodes knew who the heirs to Lobengula"s throne were - and that Njube was the rightful heir. Rhodes himself wanted them to be educated mainly so that they could play their parts as leaders in the future (otherwise he would have just had them killed) - so he sent them to one of the best schools in South Africa at the time - after he died, unfortunately, like many promises he had made (like land allocated to the Chiefs in 1896) only 6 years later, running the British South Africa Company were not always able or perhaps even prepared to follow his decisions. Very quick unfortunately as I have a lot on my plate, but it might give you some thoughts -and always hope for the future.🙏🙏
Was Mzikazi a Zulu
um ndebele and um being tought my culture by a white woman wow
Hey Jay Jay ... being taught our culture by a white amaNdebele. Hlahlane guhle baba
U are matabele not ndebele
Because your fellow mates have failed to teach you
This is a bunch of BS. Mzilikazi was a great warrior. The British called him the path of fire or the path of the thunder. He was a lieutenant under Shaka. He had enough of Shaka ways and with 10 to 15 thousand zulus under his command he parted ways cordially with Shaka. The Zulu gave him a royal salute. He shied away from the royal salute. He stated that the royal salute only belong to Shaka and his great mother, the elephant Nandi. Back then to To call a woman an elephant meant she is strong with great character. Mzilikazi and his soldiers headed beyond the mountains to now what is called Zimbawawe. This is the factual story.
Lonnie Jackson - I don't disagree with you ... I rate King Mzilikazi as a better military tactician and natural leader than King Chaka. We are reliant upon oral history and whether we like it or not, that distorts over time according to the inclinations and influences of the teller at the time. Consulting as many view points as are available, as well as knowing well my childhood, and childhood friends in Matabeleland - I have argued through four very different perspectives in my book - the debate on exactly what you are talking about. Chaka was broken hearted when King Mzilikazi decided to go on his own -particularly as his mother who was a dominant influence in his life, had suggested he should trust, encourage and train this young son of maTshobana - but I have not found one report to state that they parted ways cordially. I would be very interested to know your source.
Most of the Zulu armies attacked at night or early in the mornings,there was only one army which attacked in broad day light,that was the insukamini feared regiment frm Mzilikazi and remember king Mzilikazi did not inherit a tribe as king he had to build it crushing armies as he went.
This is very far from the truth.
I would be most interested to know which bits you regard as far from the truth?
Looking for stuff, this video sounded interesting, mostly tired of lies from whites but let me listen. Well, let us start.
Khumalo was very small, it is still very small, whatever.
Mzilikazi never, not even one day yield an inxwa in the service of the Ndwandwe. Why this mischarecterization, okay, fine. The reality is Dingiswayo of the Mthetwa was killed by Zwide of the Ndwandwe, Dingiswayo was the head that Shaka fell under. Shaka was one or two days behind Dingiswayo, Bheje Khumalo warned Shaka not to advance or he will die in an ambush the way Dingiswayo died. Shaka took the advice and wisely retreated, at that very moment, the Khumalo showed their position by saving Shakas life.
Zwide, the Ndwandwe then killed Donda Khumalo and Mashobane, Mzilikaziès father wared Bheje to run and died in his place when the Ndwandwe went wild upon Khumalo. Mzilikazi, even though his official mother was Zwides daughter, was a Khumalo first and had to agree with the Khumalo decision of saving Shakas life.
Mzilikazi then took 500 men to Bulawayo, and Shaka knew who had just saved his life.
These people have always talked nonsense always distorting things for some ulterior motive. She is lying, will not bother listening further. She doesn’t even care she is lying, and the blacks saying thank you to her also don’t care, they think she can help them with their resume, this is why their rob us of our deeds, steal our minds, this is a liar straight up.
Pray she is nice to her maid, our people suffer because of a stupid system created by liars, her maid is smarter than her but got no opportunity whilst she plays some English aristocrat in Africa, spoilt little kid, always telling lies, never grew up, didn’t have to.
Aah Bhekuzulu - this video is interesting. It is interesting for whites to learn about the Matebele people . . . it is vital for young people in Matabeleland who are no long taught about their ancestors. My focus was on the Khumalo clan and the descendants from King Mzilikazi. I would not pretend to know anything about the areas you describe. So I speak only of what I do know and this is very difficult because there was no written word in those days. I was born in Tsholotsho in 1940 because my father was headmaster of one of the first schools for Africans. My best friends were three amaNdebele boys, I spoken Sindebele as easily as I spoke English - many whites were not fortunate enough to have that background. That is why I write about what I know - not what I don't know. None of it is written in anger - it is written in love for that group of people who were my family too.
@@JillBakerZim From experience I have come to understand that what ever comes out of white person's mouth there is either clear deceit, or just malicious for no reason, but after reading this, I decided to listen to the rest of the video, you are so sweet sometimes, My grandfather comes from Tsholotsho, or should I say born in Tsholotsho. I can hear it in your voice you are considerate, doing right thing in your way.
Surprised, yes, because I know reality, when the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation pulled down my interview and replaced me with a white word for word, I understood the madness of whites, that kind of hate, refusing to believe a black can discover in science, and willing to use instruments of the governments to distort history, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is owned by a government, so when I heard the first part I said wait a minute, it never happened like that, we had just saved Shaka’s life and paid a heavy price for doing so these whites and hating Khumalo’s, but now listened to the rest, okay.
believe me I understand ... but a thought for you . . . I called the book I wrote about my father's 30 years head mastering schools for Africans (Tsholosho, Mzingwane and Goromonzi) Beloved African - because he too was born in Plumtree in 1910. He never belonged anywhere else - and I am the same. I find it incredibly hard that we are judged on our skin colour and not our personality or integrity (or lack of it!). Your CBC experience was unforgivable and I am sad about that. I know, respect and love many Khumalo's - you are a fine, fine family indeed. I wish you could be restored to your former greatness - perhaps one day.
@@JillBakerZim Thank you so much, wow, I am saying wow because my grandfather was born in Tsholotsho where you were born, and my great grandfather was born in Plumtree where your father was born. They liked moving from place to place. Ordinary people, we discover and contribute like any other human, all products of our times, these are the times to discover, then where the times of what you speak off. May humans not be afraid of themselves and accept what they see around themselves. You are a wonderful spirit.
@@bhekuzulukhumalo3967 We are kinsmen indeed!
Distorted.Mzilikazi;s father Mashobane King of the Mtungwa was killed by Zwide .Mashobana and Shaka wer close.Zwide Killed both Mashobana who was close to shaka and Dingiswayo .After his father was Killed Mashobana ran to King shaka.I do not know why this stories are distorted time and time and again.Where do people get this information.Because its made and enhaced to create controversy and confuse people
Hi Edward - I agree that Matshobane was killed by Zwide. But I have not heard or read anywhere that Matshobane and Shaka were close . . . I have ready many different versions but they agree that King Shaka raided several times and Mzilikazi grew tired of this - so he took the initiative, showed the leader he was going to be come and won King Shaka's mother's approval. She was a powerful mother to King Shaka and she recommended that Mzilikazi would be a good friend and warrior for King Shaka. Which he was.
Where are you getting this information? Mzilikazi never became Shaka's chief, this is complete false. Where are you from Jill because clearly your information is diluted and wrong..
Sandile - I have very good sources of research and personal and close friends close to the Royal Family who know their family history very well indeed. Perhaps we have both got it a little bit right or a little bit wrong ... or even a lot right or a lot wrong!
Tell us your version then if you think Jill is wrong .
What a lie , these narratives should not be allowed. These lies are taught in our schools . You guys are used to movies too much. These were real people with uBuntu not this barbaric narrative of yours. Sorry mam
Tailor Projects I have no idea who you are ... your comments are not helpful - I write from my knowledge of the children I grew up with in Matabeleland ... and I do speak the truth of what I knew and grew up with. I am sad it does not speak to your narrative, and that you are not prepared to perhaps give me the courtesy of listening with an open mind - these were all verbal narratives in those days. Verbal narratives change according to the interpretation of the speaker. You glean from them the most constant truths and try to work from those.
Madam stick to white history, you don't about Zulu history. Shaka couldn't beat the Ndwandwe and here you are lying here Shaka was beating the Ndwandwes. It is the Ndwandwes that were consistently beating other as they were the biggest clan, their King was Zwide.
Hi Da Watch - you are correct that the Ndwandwe were a powerful tribe and that King Zwide did manage to hold off the Zulu people - for a while. But later information tells me that Shaka damaged the Ndwandwe severely in later battles - that King Zwide killed maTshobana for reasons associated with that - and it was at that point Mzilikazi went to talk to King Shaka. Often things are a little bit different - I wish we had had today's recordings to get the truths told in the oral history . . . but that is not the case, so as oral histories do differ, usually because of who happens to be telling the story, and there are always questions.
@@JillBakerZim hahahaha Zwide was not hold off Zwide. He kill Mzikazi's, DigiswAyo the Mthwethwa the started fights with everyone including the Zulus. When he started a fight with the Zulu he outnumbered them that's why Shaka and he men hide and only attacked at night Shake burned crops and hide livestock so that the fight will end early e.g if you match to Durban from Stanger to fight you have a low food supply when you get to Durban and find nothing to feed you men, won't last long that what Shaka did when the Ndwandwes attacked him he hide food and livestock so the fight won't last long and only attacked during the night when Zwide and his men are asleep cause he was outnumbered. Due to no food Zwide and his men felt they were not defeated Zulus held them off. Mthwethwa king and khumalo king died by Zwide hand, the Mthwethwas went to Shaka since Shaka grown under the Mthwethwas and it them that helped Shaka claim the Zulu crown. Khumalo and Shaka had 1 enemy which was Zwide, Shaka and Mzilikazi joined forced only than did Shaka foght before that he hide Everytime Zwide attacked cause Zwide was most large clan. Shaka never dared to start fight he was the 1 holding off the Ndwandwes until the Mthwethwas and Khumalo came under him.
1st sentence I meant Zwide was not holding off he started fights
@@JillBakerZim another error I made, Zwide didn't kill Mzilikazi he killed Mzilikazi's father the Khumalo king.
@@dawatch7145Zwide did kill Mzilikazi"s father, Matshobana - who was chief of a clan of the Khumalos.