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Sexuality, Identity, and Loving our Neighbor | TGC Podcast
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- čas přidán 9. 02. 2022
- Sam Allberry hosted a panel discussion during TGCW21 titled “Sexual Identity and Loving Our Neighbor.” Joining him on the panel were Rebecca McLaughlin and Jackie Hill Perry. Having experienced same-sex attraction and having taught extensively on issues of sexuality, each participant in the panel spoke from their own experiences both being confronted personally by the gospel and engaging in conversations with others around the confrontational and controversial topics of sexuality. They encouraged their listeners to engage honestly, with listening ears and a humble posture, recognizing that every image bearer has a story that is worthy of our careful attention.
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This is the most comprehensive and helpful discussion of these issues I've found. I've listened twice and will probably return again. Thank you.
Truth is precious.
Truth is reality .
Truth will set you free .
“I think people in our culture today often confuse genuine listening and loving somebody with affirming all their instincts and desires”
!!!!!
Excellent!
Thank you for an informative, affirmative and encouraging discussion from 3 people who walk their talk. The Church needs to engage to be able to present Jesus as the Saviour to people on the highway to hell.
Spot on..lady with dreads..it so true, there is so much confusion around feelings versus who we are in Christ. Train up our children so they know firmly where their identity comes from..running with our feelings on every whim leads to so much destruction..
Such a positive and enlightening conversation about a difficult subject! Loved it!
Wow, what Jackie said at the end about parents making their children's happiness their idol is so spot on.
I've seen that happen in my own family. I've been so confused and devastated seeing my parents and sister and her husband all deciding to give up on God's truth about sexuality, and I just have no idea how they came to this place. It makes no sense to me, as I have always seen them as very faithful Christians who love God and his Word.
But my husband pointed out to me that he thinks the core of it all is my nephew identifying as bisexual now. He suspects that is the thing that shifted them into this new position of embracing homosexuality. I didn't want to believe that, because I just feel like my family wouldn't be so susceptible to that kind of deception, but unfortunately that seems to be exactly what has happened.
Jackie is absolutely right. We need to love God and his Word more than our children and their happiness. Although I think loving God's truth is also loving our children, because encouraging your child to pursue homosexuality is not actually loving and is not actually what's best for them. But we need to be willing to stand firm in God's truth even if it means losing our family. That has somewhat happened with me. My family still loves me and we can still hang out casually, but our relationship is very different than it used to be. I've lost so much, and it's been pretty soul-crushing. But I have gained a deeper dependency on God, which has been a great source of comfort.
Loving god more then the children you created? Thats the most awful thing I've ever heard. Chosing your child over god is demonic in itself.
@@IHazMunchies91 I think you typed something wrong there, because you just co teadicted yourself.
There is nothing awful about putting God first. And it certainly isn't "demonic" to put God above all else (which I think is what you were trying to say).
the conversations are so amazingly theologically profound ... thank you TGC for this kind of space!
Wrestling with sinus a struggle that we all have. To win the battle, we must have God fight for us. And do our part. Just because we like our sin, doesn’t change the fact that we need Gods help in our lives
We all have temptations. Sexual temptations come in all forms. I appreciate these two women being so honest.
oh my gosh this was so good
Jesus loves us all. He hates the sin,but loves the sinner. You have a choice, you follow Christ or you follow world views. Eternal life is offered if you follow Christ. If you sit on the fence, you need to know that Satan owns the fence and will lead you straight to fire and Brimstone.
Got it and agree that can exist gay christian but PLEASE do not give them the pulpit for preaching or teaching. If they really love Jesus in their heart, they will never say again: "I am a gay christian" but they will do instead: "I WAS gay but now I'm a new creation in Jesus powerful name" God bless all of you panelists!!
They can yake the pulpit if they bring truth.
Gay Christian? Then anybody can come and say I’m and adulterer Christian, I’m a pedophile Christian… what would the difference be? if I hear that I would think this person needs the gospel
The difference is that a gay adult is not psychologically and physicality damaging anyone (love your neighbor as yourself), but an adulterer and pedophile is... Jesus is the one who can forgive our sins and helps us with our weakness...
Some hear the term "gay" and hear "actively involved in a gay lifestyle/relationship." Others use the word gay to mean the heart's orientation. If it describes your heart, but you are chaste and do not act on it, which is what these speakers are describing, then you're not sinning even though you're tempted to.
We all need the gospel, Paul called himself “the chief of sinners” 1 Timothy 1:15. Notice he said “am” not “was” the chief. Romans 5:8 “Christ died for us while we were still sinners.”
So yes I do believe there can be gay Christians, adulterer Christian, pedophile Christian, murder Christian, gossip Christian, self righteous Christian. The key is if you are proud of your sin or if you are on your knees asking for His Grace. It isn’t what I have done it is what He has done, not who I am but who He is.
Think Satan’s biggest lie is we have to get it right before we come to God. The truth is we can’t get it right until we come to God.
That says enough for me in 2.5 minutes, when gay marriage was legalized I was profoundly sad. You cannot expect me to believe that Christians actually love beyond surface level empty platitudes. They hearts do not agree with their words.
At resurrection there will be no male or female. - Jesus responding to woman married 7 brothers
Actually He said there would be no marriage in heaven we would be like the angels neither marry nor given in marriage, nothing regarding the negating of our biological sex. Matt22.30
@@wmperkins25 actually the Bible said we will be like Jesus. We might all be male lol
@@nauhakhrangpathianthu4297 ALL MALES !! ?? ! lol -As in Christ's character and nature with glorified bodies like HIs -
No such thing as a gay Christian just as there is no gay adulterer or fornicator. "Such WERE some of you." Quit pushing heresy and repent.
Interesting observation. So there must also be no such thing as a lying, thieving adulterous Christian? Being attracted to the opposite sex is not inherently wrong. Give me one scriptural basis that would state otherwise. Now...acting out this behavior by sleeping with the opposite sex and engaging sexual acts as the bible says, well that's a whole other story. It's the same thing I would tell someone who can't stop lying or murdering. Thinking about murdering someone isn't inherently wrong, but every single one of us have probably had that thought in our lifetimes. It's the same for all sin, if you actually act on the sin and commit adultery or commit murder or commit sexual acts with the opposite gender, it's sin and you must repent of it. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
@@thereadingtree6288 We do not call a Christian who desires but does not commit adultery an adulterer Christian. Why would we call someone who desires homosexuality but does not commit homosexuality a gay Christian? Both need to continue to repent and ask God to deliver them. The Bible says "If a man looks at a woman with lust he has committed adultery in his heart." Same goes for homosexuality. The power of the grace of God can help both become Christians and change for the glory of God.
@@johnbeale4164 strange stuff.
You suppose that all men struggle with looking at women.
It's gets easier the longer you fight it.
And God says
IF YOU LOOK WITH LUST, YOU COMMITTED ADULTERY.
Looking is sinful.
Not all men have such a struggle with looking.
@@johnbeale4164 You are so right. It's certainly not required as a warning label! And we are just plain Christians. Some of us, in certain circumstances or encounters, prefer for people to know we have same sex attraction. It's hard to explain but sometimes it just helps express something about what we've been through. It might make someone run the other way! If that's how they feel, better to know right off the bat. It might help someone to be sympathetic to our heart's battle. That helps. But yes; we need to make sure terms are clear. Orientation? Or active lifestyle?
None of these women identify as gay Christians you weirdo, so are you without sin now, do you have no sinful desires after you have been saved? If not, then shut up. As Rosario Butterfield once said "Reparative therapy is heretical".
Does JHP think it is OK to identify as “gay Christian”? JHP seems to think it is OK given her comments. When will we begin to embrace our identity as how God made us to be and are now in Christ. Temptation is not identify. We are born in the image of God and now we are “in Christ” if we have repented of sin and trust in Christ as our sin-bearer. How can a Christian want or allow themselves to be identified with sin? A person can say, “unhelpful” “nuanced” or whatever. Why is JHP on the stage? What are her qualifications as a spiritual leader or someone who has a proven track record of knowing and applying the Word?
Unfortunate that’s what you drew from this. But :
1) At the 15:00 mark, she literally agrees with you and says she does not identify with her temptation, but with Christ.
2) A “proven track record” of a life transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit, knowing and applying the Word to herself and her marriage, may count in your judgement. As for her as a leader, I’m Reformed so I’m not fond of ordaining women (she’s not a pastor afaik), but if you care,you can easily google every ministry she has worked for, and listen to her participation on American Gospel.
Consider examining your heart, brother.
As for the “nuance” of Christians identifying as gay, she’s talking explicitly about salvation. Again, she does not uses that language on herself, all she says do not assume someone is not Christian because they call themselves gay, but inquire further. Are we saved by faith alone, in Jesus alone, by grace alone, for the glory of God? If so, seek to disciple anyone who identifies with their sin (an alcoholic, an addict, prideful, etc.). People will know we are His disciples, by the way we love one another. That is, how we love our own in the faith.
Josh, while you encourage me to examine my motives (and yet you seem to assume to know mine), I would encourage you to focus on my question. JHP used words that mean something and should not be merely dismissed by you because you assign a different meaning to what her words literally indicate. Sure, I could do an in depth study on her history, theology, background,etc. but why should I have to? Shouldn’t people who make it on a stage be clear? Shouldn’t I have that expectation? It seems like you are advocating to the point of not discerning what her words were. If I am wrong, great. But don’t dismiss me or talk down to me. Also, “love” stands in the shadow of truth. Love as a stand alone virtue has no definition without truth. Truth AND love. Don’t get bent at me when we put people on stage because of what they have come through vs what they are qualified for.
Josh, why shouldn’t I assume someone is not a Christian is they say they are gay? You error when you don’t assume this given what the Bible says… Wouldn’t Paul say this… yes, he did: 1 Cor. 6:9-11 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [10] nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Don’t be deceived by the emotive words nor the clamor to understand people above knowing and proclaiming the truth. “Itching ears” are on people who like to round off the edges of what is true and make concession for how people feel at the expense of brining hope through embracing and expressing with truth. We can only provide love and hope when we are following hard after Jesus and telling people the truth without watering it down to be palatable so it sells books.
@@miller8084 I don’t know your motives, I haven’t implied them, or if I have feel free to point at where. My point is that your case against her seems to be based on falsehood or misinterpretation, as she ***literally*** says she’s against using that label as a Christian. What she is saying, and what I tried to say in my second comment, was: don’t dismiss someone who says they’re a gay Christian, but inquire further, even discipling them in love out of that if everything else checks out. Hopefully you agree with me that sanctification is a lifelong process. And this could be an area that CHRISTIANS who have been saved out of the LGBT lifestyle might need time to work through.
Do with this as you wish.
You can be LGBT and Christian no problem 👬
No you can’t.
I think you can be a Christian and LGBT........ just as a married person, who is in sin, having intimacy with other people, can still be a Christian..........Thing is, the person who is sinning........basically all of us, need to be aware of our sins and pray for forgiveness and repent of our sins. We should NEVER celebrate our sins. God has told us what he wants. He sets the rules, not us. His ways are not our ways, his thoughts are not our thoughts.
LGBT folks have an issue with their sexuality. It is their struggle. We ALL have our struggles. We need to love each other through those struggles. Repent and go forward in his name in kindness and love. Amen!!
@@jaggz83 Can you be a Christian and have wealth? Be divorced? Gossip? Why don't you apply this same stringent litmus test with sins Jesus actually spoke of?
Yes
@@heatherbrown4176 have wealth? Having wealth is not a sin. 🤦♀️
The TGC apparently is just the PCUSA now.
Why do you say that?
They aren’t changing their theological stance. It seems they are trying to make an active attempt to both listen and witness to their neighbors and treat them as any of us sinners in need of the Gospel.