When people call suicide selfish I’ll say one thing: Many people a vast majority, who try to end their lives actually feel like they're doing people a favor.
No it’s kind of a pity party. Karofskt wasn’t like that. He didn’t want to be around the bullying anymore so he took himself. That’s different. Saying “oh no one wants me here and I’ll be doing a favor” that’s untrue, and it’s just a pity lie to justify selfishness
@@brettlarch8050 You don’t know me. Why don’t you fucking chill. I’m not gonna respond anymore because unless you mature a little to have a discussion with someone without blowing up then I have nothing to say to you
Suicide is not selfish. People take their own lives because they feel there is no other option and it is too painful to live. People don't do it to hurt their loved ones. I just hate it when people say it's selfish.
tilly coulter Yup. It's more selfish to disregard someone's feelings and make them feel so bad about themselves that they consider taking their own life because some asshole has made them believe their life isn't worth living.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. Your loved ones are the ones that should help you through a time like that not make things worse. I hope you're feeling better now and that you received the help you needed. If you ever want to talk I'm here for you (souloutmein@gmail.com). Love you ❤
You’re not selfish for having suicidal thoughts. Even 2 years later, I’m sorry your mother said that to you. It was likely her mind’s attempt to understand what was happening to you, and it ended up just being a cruel attack. But that doesn’t excuse it. I hope the best for you.
@Akshay Natu two wrongs don’t make a right ya know. It takes strength to restrain yourself from hurting your tormentors. I’m sorry that you wish death upon a (fictional) person, and I undoubtedly believe you’ve wished death on others, but leave your negative crap to yourself eh?
@Akshay Natu I’m gonna guess you’ve been hurt a lot mate. And I’m really sorry you’ve been hurt. You’re very clearly projecting your pain on a fictional character. If you want to speak in a productive manner, I’m happy to do so. Hatred and bitterness only hurts you and others.
Peanut butter circle tells me everything Mike knows 1 or more secrets. Kurt being near tears. Blaine and Artie's fidgety hands avoiding eye contact during story they've been there.
The way Kurt was talking, it definitely seemed like he was talking about himself as well as Karofsky. Now we know he had been suicidal for at least part of the time he was at McKinley. Heartbreaking & powerful. Those who don't know what it's like to be suicidal have no right to judge.
I totally forgot about the fact that Dave tried to reach out to Kurt for help. I probably would have ignored the calls too because I wouldn't have known Dave's circumstance at the time. Oh wow, the amount of guilt he must have been feeling :(
The fact that Quinn managed to stay religious is the most unrealistic thing in this entire show. If she had shown up to one of those cult houses (also known as Christian churches) they would have shot her dead without an ounce of hesitation.
Everyone hating on Quinn, it isn't like she's the only one in the world who feels this way. She was still in high school, she was young. A lot of people, not just young people, will never understand the kind of self hatred and depression that can lead to self-harm and suicide. The writers were just trying to show that.
Yes, they don't understand. That is the point. If you don't understand something, either ask questions and educate yourself, or accept that you don't really care and keep your ignorant assumptions to yourself. Instead of making harmful judgement calls and sweeping statements about something you readily admit you DO NOT understand. That is why Quinn is getting hate. Not because she doesn't understand, but because she thinks she has a right to speak so harshly on something she doesn't understand. The real irony is how mad she got at Kurt for essentially doing exactly the same thing to her by turning her judgement around back towards her. She was quick enough to get defensive once the lens was focused on her.
I’m young and I’ve understood since I was 13 that suicide isn’t selfish. That you should help someone is suicidal, never blame them. Age isn’t the problem. Ignorance is.
Listening to Darren Criss's song "Cough Syrup" still brings back the intensity I felt while watching Max Adler's character attempting suicide. My hat goes off to the writers and actors!
Kurt was 100% right. And really calling suicide selfish is the actual selfish thing. Everyone has the right to their own life. No one else owns you. If you want to, though it's sad and I would wish no one would, it is still your right. Telling suicidal people they should just deal with life to protect other people when they haven't had to deal with this person's depression is disgusting.
HonBon96 the reason most people see it as selfish is because they are ending their problems, but causing much more suffering to everyone around them. Most Christians (such as myself) believe it is a selfish thing due to this being said in the bible. And I have been suicidal a few times in my life, the one thing that stops me is that I hate to see my loved ones in pain
I think trying to commit suicide is selfish. Yeah, Quinn opinion lacked any empathy, but when you try to commit suicide you do it for you And it's coming from someone who can relate personally.
Actually, I know some people who are suicidal and yes, I am a Christian, but I can see from their perspective. They do it because they believe that everyone around them and the whole world would be better off without them. They don’t see it as hurting anyone, they think they are doing everyone around them a favor.
Honestly I wouldn't compare what Quinn went through to Karofsky been through. Quinn got pregnant and easily made Finn believe he was the father bc he love Quinn that much to support her. Once guys would have run, plus if Finn was smart enough to believe he wasnt the father. Quinn still had Puck, maybe irresponsible at times but wouldn't abandon her either. Her parents kick her out, Finn's mom welcome her with open arms to her home. Puck also let her live in her house. Mercedes let her live in her house too and treated her like family. Got kick out of the Cheerios but she still had Glee, who gave her nothing but love and support. Her mom, even welcome her back home. Karofsky bullied Kurt because he wanted to hide the fact he was gay. He saw how his friends hated Kurt for being gay and didnt want to go through that. He wasnt as lucky as Kurt to believe that there are people in the world that will love him even if he is gay because no one gave him a reason to believe in that. People gave reasons to Quinn.
I understand why you would support both sides but I just can't support Quinn, what she said was horrible, suicide is not selfish, she does not know how hard it is to get so beaten down that the only escape you see fit is suicide, sure, she was pregnant and lost a lot of friends but she still had her true friends, Karofsky had nothing. He was so beaten down and no one was there for him, he felt all alone and worthless. Quinn didn't understand that and that's not necessarily her fault, but she should watch out with what she says, it's hard to understand the true feeling of being suicidal until you're there so I can't blame her for not knowing, but even if you haven't been there, you should at least be considerate and not insult the victim.
@@coderainbow2581 and I’m assuming g you’ve never been in a very dark place of your life? Because you clear have no clue what you’re talking about If you think suicide is selfish you’re part of the problem
@@coderainbow2581 my friend committed suicide and I’ll never blame her for it. She had depression, she couldn’t help herself and she never asked for it. I feel sorry for your loss, But at the same time I’m sad that you are calling your loss one selfish. They are victims of mental health deceases and in Dave’s case, it was the homophobes pushed him to the edge.
I’m a survivor of suicide. It was my first year of middle school and I had no one. I talked to my school counselor and he gave me advice. But I never listened. So one night, I tried to take a hunting knife in my closet and stab myself, but I stopped it. And then in order to stop thinking about it, I cried myself to sleep.
Wanting to die isn't an easy choice, sometimes it's not even a choice at all, it's a feeling. It's not a good choice or feeling. I've had that feeling before. Couldn't stop thinking of it. I wasn't trying to be selfish. I was trying to be happy. And I felt that was the only way. They were both opinions of each side. Not right nor wrong. Just opinions. No one should be treated as lesser than or insulted for attempting suicide but no one should feel the need to do it. I just wish he could have gotten help before he attempted. I wish anyone who had attempted got help before they did.
This moment alone just makes me wanna say two things: A year ago I commented on this that when people call suicide selfish, let me tell you a fact: a vast majority of suicidal people feel like they're doing the world a favor. That's why they take their lives. They feel like a burden and they feel like they don't belong anywhere. They have no hope, extreme loneliness, and despair. All it takes is one saying: I GOT YOU BUD! Secondly, for those who blame themselves like Kurt, never ever blame yourself. It is not your fault that they tried or were successful. They were trying their hardest to be strong and they couldn't be strong anymore.
Well. I mean her pregnancy and bad hair dye job was a consequence of her actions. She cheated with Puck and got herself knocked up. Despite the other glee members trying to help her, she took them for granted. And she only cared about her fame/image. Kinda of selfish. And I thought christians are against premarital sex or cheating? As for gay individuals, it isn't a choice that they were gay. It is society's rejection that cause them pain and suffering.
Sage 2 Quinn was grateful. She got them the photo in the yearbook from Sue and refused to rejoin because she was glad to be in a club that accepted her. She stopped being mean to Rachel and actually helped her a couple of time, even though Rachel told a secret that wasn't hers to tell (all so Finn would date her). She helped Mercedes when no one (including Kurt) when she was starving herself, she taught her she was beautiful. She told Mercedes she deserved love not a jerk like Puck. And she did thank Mercedes for letting her move in while they were hugging. She stopped being a bad person halfway through season 1. She was actually a nice friend the rest of the time.
Chiara Farmer She eventually did gradually. But that doesn't mean she still doesn't look out for herself. Again. I was initially making a comparison and not how she changed.
I agree with everything especially about Quinn, but when Quinn slept with puck he got her drunk. Like super drunk mad she was feeling super insecure puck took advantage of her in such a dark place.
Everyone is either hating on Quinn or Kurt. They were both right, and wrong in different ways. Kurt didn’t have to bring up the stuff Quinn went through, but on the other hand, Quinn made it seem as if Karofsky took his own life just to hurt others. In my opinion, I thought that Kurt had the better point, although, I believe Quinn did go through a lot throughout the course of the first and third season, pregnancy, rebellion and a car crash.
This was before the car crash so that doesn't count to validate her perspective here. When she was paralyzed, I feel like that is when she had really seen her darkest days, because she had actually started to lose hope for her future.
Most people who try to commit sucide aren’t doing it to hurt themselves or others they’re doing it because they want the hurting to stop. Quinn saying that Dave’s parents need comfort more than him makes me angry. Calling him selfish and trying to equate her experiences with his is just... “i went through the wringer but I never got to that place” and then she has the gall to jump down Kurt’s throat for comparing her and Dave when she literally just did. “Oh no he got outed and bullied but I got pregnant and kicked off the cheer squad, /I/ never tried to off myself so he must be doing this for selfish reasons” honestly Quinn Fabray’s ‘poor me’ Schtick got old before the end of season one. Maybe I’m just biased against bitchy cheerleaders or people who’s problems are the direct result/consequence of their actions.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Quinn didn’t have a suckish experience as a teen mom. But saying Dave doesn’t need comfort when he just tried to kill himself? That’s not okay. Nobody really even messed with Quinn about the pregnancy, any bullying she experienced was almost entirely Glee Club related and, though it sounds old fashioned, if you don’t want to get preggers dont have sex. Or behave like the smart high schooler you supposedly are and idk USE PROTECTION. She didn’t even know who the father was for sure. All the problems she did have in regards to the baby could have been more or less avoided/resolved if she had been honest with her parents (and Finn and Puck) to begin with. Again I probably sound like an insensitive bitch and I apologize if I upset anyone. This is just my opinion and interpretation of the material.
" I don't know how life could get so bad that you'd want to do that". That's the point. You dont, so stop judging the dude. Yes he messed up but so did she
@@ngoziaguariavwodo779 Calling a suicide attempt "incredibly selfish" and saying he wanted to hurt everyone else around him along with himself is definitely judging.
Okay. Blahblahblah argue about suicide, and who was mean to whom. This scene is about Quinn's hypocrisy - that she was there to pray for Karofsky, but she also openly resented him. Kurt pointed it out to her, she understood quickly and tried to press on, and he cut her off again. He did the right thing, probably, in keeping Quinn from poisoning a special moment of support for Karofsky.
I didn’t like Quinn the entire time anyway. She annoyed me. But I stand by what I say whenever people say “I can’t imagine wanting to take your own life.” I respond with “How lucky you are to not know that feeling” I don’t say it with malice because I genuinely feel happy for those who have never felt such a draining feeling.
Quinn comparing her pain of being pregnant at 16 and missing being "cool" with, being reject by society, bullied to death or even being threatened just for being who you are is ironically selfish of her in a way, it's like a rich person that is mad because the Iphone is running out of charge while there's people starving...
Although I don’t agree with her, you’re pretty severely minimizing what she went through. She got pregnant at 16 and had to hide it from her family, was disowned by her parents, became a school outcast overnight and got into a serious car accident
@@smwatertasteslikewater that's what kurt was doing to her Quinn please you had a baby at 16 and a bad dye job but the world never stopped loving you." Like he was gatekeeping pain to just the LGBT community
@@carlyedwards1422 how getting pregnant is a pain? LGBTs are dying and being persecuted just because they love someone, being LGBT is still a crime in several countries unlike getting pregnant as a teen
calling suicidal people selfish literally just makes them more self-loathing and drives them closer to total alienation from people who might be able to help them.
"I can't imagine things getting so messed up you would take your own life" Good for you! Not everybody has the luxury to say that. Your experience says nothing about his, or anyone else's.
I see both sides. Both sides were right. Taking your own life is a selfish act but it's necessary to have compassion in a time like this to help him get through what he's going through.
If you feel that dying is the better option to stop the pain that you're feeling, that's not selfish. What's selfish is thinking that the world revolves around you and the suicidal actions of another, affects your more than the trauma that said individual is going through. Take a moment to focus on the pain of the individual and help them realize that life is worth living, rather than telling them that they're selfish, which doesn't do anything but hurt the person more.
How is suicide selfish? Its someone being so fed up with self loathing and hatred that they feel as if nobody would care if they died. It would only be a selfish act if you did it specifically to hurt someone. And that's not what most people do. What people don't understand is how alone and unloved a suicidal person feels. It's like finding out everyone you've ever loved or cared for left you forever. It's as if your being torn apart. Saying suicide is selfish is completely and utterly disgusting.
Look up Emile Durkheim's studies on suicide, particularly altruistic suicide. That is literally the opposite of a selfish act. To believe that ALL suicide is selfish actually just displays your own selfish thinking. 'How does their suicide affect ME, why didn't they think about ME and MY feelings and put MY interests before their own instead of taking what clearly felt like the only option to them at a time of deep suffering'. You may be substituting yourself with 'that person's family/friends/loved ones', but the thought process is the same. You're thinking of how you would feel if it was someone directly connected to you. So to point the finger and call someone else selfish is somewhat ironic. It also utterly disregards the many, many suicides that occur in people who don't have any loved ones to leave behind. Not everyone out there has a family, or a partner, or a social circle. One of the biggest causes of suicide is loneliness and social isolation. Sure someone has to recover their body, but that's professionals who are trained and paid to do so, not anybody who is forced to. Are you seriously reducing a life down to someone having to stretcher their remains to the morgue? "They should've carried on living a hell I couldn't possibly imagine so that no one else would have to bother with the funerary process." Please. Get some perspective outside of your own little bubble. Calling someone suicidal selfish is actually one of the most disgusting, reprehensible and selfish things I can imagine a human being doing to another human being. It is reducing their unimaginable suffering down to an inconvenience. It shows total contempt for them as a person. Shame on anyone who does so.
Taking you own life is not selfish, sometimes people think the world would be better off without them, what is selfish about that? The only ones the think about are others and not themselves, that's the opposite of being selfish
Quinn was able to say this because she has no idea what it feels like, how much pain you have to be in to want to end it all,she can say alls he wants that she went through the ringer, but like Kurt said the world never stopped loving her, she has no idea what someone could be feeling when they want to end it all, she can’t even comprehend, and that’s why she can say it, because if she felt the same way she would be broken
Kurt had no right to blame himself especially after what Karosky put him through. I feel sorry for Karosky what they put on the internet page you think that people would grow up after seeing a tragedy like that. I shudder to think how much hate mail Max Adler got.
I've been there too and when you feel like the world hates you, why would you care if you hurt others. You feel like those closest to you will morn you for a while then move on, and nobody else will care. Quinn just sounded really naive
Okay I get what Kurt’s point here is but Quinn has been through a lot. He says the world never stopped loving her but her world did. She was pregnant as a sophomore, she was kicked out of the cheerleader squad, she lost all her friends, everyone started bullying her, she lost her boyfriend, and she got disowned by her parents all within the span of a couple months.
But her circumstances were completely different from Dave or Kurth, she spoke from her ignorance and her stupid religion, which is why I could never stand her.
This is why Kurt is my fav character. Even after everything he was still compassionate enough to talk with him. This is why I also think he deserved better than Blaine after him doing him so dirty.
When I was 13 I was going through a really bad time. My parents had a pretty messy divorce, I was mercilessly bullied at school and my mother was verbally and emotionally neglectful and abusive towards me. I felt like I couldn’t take any of it anymore so one day I was at my mum’s; she’d gone out and I was alone. I was watching GLEE on Netflix and was thinking about killing myself because I felt like I couldn’t face another minute of my life; there was a bottle of Tylenol in the kitchen and I kept thinking about that. Then just before I was about to pause the show and go get that bottle of Tylenol and some water the Cough Syrup/Karofsky attempts suicide scene came on. I was drawn to it and when I saw Dave struggling the way I was struggling at that moment the feeling that I was alone left and when I saw the scene where Dave’s father came in it made me think of my Dad (who I love so so much) and how much I’d devastate him if I’d killed myself; I then thought of my eldest nephew (who was three at the time) and how it would affect his life. I broke down and cried. I realised that I still have so much to live for; my cat saw me crying and he comforted me. When the scene was over I paused and went into the kitchen like I’d planned but instead I fed my cat, got a glass of water, a strawberry yogurt and a spoon then went back into the living room and continued watching the show. I have had suicidal thoughts since but I always think of that day and I remind myself what I have to live for. This scene literally saved my life. I have been in that suicidal state of mind a few times in my life and I sympathise with anyone who is struggling. It is NOT a selfish act, it’s human emotions and we all cope with things in our life differently. I have only love and sympathy for those who are in that suicidal state of mind and I hope they know that they do not have to feel any shame for feeling like that. And thank you GLEE for reminding me of what I have to live for....
This is the scene that made me hate Quinn. What Kurt means by the world didn’t stop loving Quinn is that when you attempt suicide, it’s because you feel hopeless and like there’s no other future. Quinn tried to make herself the martyr with her pregnancy. She cheated with Puck but told Finn it was his because he would be the “better dad”. So she could have a nice family life even if it Finn wasn’t ready for the responsibility. When her dad kicked her out, Carol let her move in with them until it came out that Finn wasn’t the father. Then Mercedes let her move in. Let’s not forget how she planned to sell her baby to Mr. Shuester’s wife. Oh yeah, the reason she gave Beth away is because Puck wouldn’t be a good dad, when both of them were the parents.
That one is so long but I needed to continue. Quinn’s life was “over” in the way all dumb teenagers think they’re life is over. That’s high school but in college none of it matters. But Kurt and Dave will never fit in. They would be looked down all their lives by people who hate them because they’re different. Was gay marriage even legal when this episode aired? Quinn didn’t grow up in an environment that taught her to hate herself; Kurt and Dave did. I’ll end with Kurt didn’t minimize Quinn’s pain but tried to open her eyes to how other people felt. Her snide comment about how Kurt wouldn’t want to compare their pain, just shows that she had no compassion for anyone but herself. Kurt lost his mom when he was 6, he’s been bullied his whole life, his dad had a heart attack, he was sexually assaulted twice, and was threatened to be killed. With no help from the glee club or the school faculty, even if it was in plain view. That’s the type of hopelessness Quinn never and will never experience.
Quinn, I love you. I really do, but Karofsky did not want to hurt those around him. He just wanted to end the pain, not hurt those around him. I know you went through a hard time, but a lot of people still loved you, but you took them all for granted. Kurt is right in this case. Quinn’s side of things is not even slightly comparable to Karofsky and Kurt. She doesn’t know what it’s like. She was about to let her boyfriend raise a child that wasn’t hers. She was the selfish one in this case, not admitting her own mistakes but putting Karofsky down for others’ harm.
It really is fascinating the level or narcissism and uncaring when people say suicide is selfish, making it all about everyone else and not the actual person.
I am getting sick of people saying suicide is selfish. Why would you all say that? Have you been there? No! Those who haven't been through the thought of suicide believe it's selfish because they never been there! I have! But I never did it. So don't it's selfish. People are just so tired and hurt of all the pain, anguish, feeling hopeless, and the terror. And before people say, "They should reach out," ITS NOT THAT EASY! I did the same thing when I was bullied. They DIDN'T do anything! It still kept going and going! So why go for help when no adult is going to give it to you? Have you thought about that? I understand what Quinn went through, yes she was pregnant, and her father kicked her out, but she did all that by herslef. She cheated on Finn, she cared about popularity. Karofsky was trying to deny who he was. And he was scared and alone. Just like Kurt. I was bullied by boys and girls for no apparent reason. I had some guy friends who helped me. My family and sisters, and my friends, and God are the reason I am here! And I could not be more grateful. So suicide is not selfish. Unless you went to that place, do NOT EVER SAY suicide is selfish
Saying suicide is selfish is just wrong. Why do you think most suicide notes starts with an apology like "this wasn't your fault" or "I'm sorry"?? they're not doing it to hurt people around them. They do it because they feel like it's their only option to not feel constant pain.
I agree with Kurt too. He knew what karofsky was going through and understood that karofsky lost the will to live and decided that a life he was not happy was not a life worth living. Only Kurt would have been able to comfort him because he was the only one who suffered like karofsky when nobody else will see him as a human and hate him because he is TRUE. KURTISM 4 LIFE.
@@mm-gz3hqIt wasn't worth continuing to say stupid things, because from the moment she opened his mouth she didn't do a damn thing, she kept minimizing other people's pain, she got the comment she deserved.
The world DID stop loving her. The glee club of course never stopped loving her but what about the rest of the world? Sue said she was a disgrace and Finn dumped her. And we can’t forget about how even her own parents kicked her out of their house! They had no idea where she was going to live and they could care less. Kurt shouldn’t have said that
Isabelle Stanley he cheated on her too. It wasn’t as serious, but at the time he didn’t know Quinn had cheated on him. Quinn made a mistake and I don’t blame Finn for dumping her. I’m just saying that the world did stop loving her
Exactly! people are talking about how Quinn should be open minded, I think Kurt should be open-minded as well. He does not know what she was going through, so who is he to dismiss her pain.
I've read all these comments, and I can see both sides of the argument of suicide. Suicide IS a selfish act, but not necessarily INTENDED to be so by the person who's contemplating it. Their mind is in a state of despair for whatever reason, and suicide seems like the only way out. In that state of mind, nobody can think clearly. They're focused only on their own pain and how to make it stop. They're not thinking of their friends and loved ones, who care about them. That's just normal for anybody who's human. That's when that person's friends and family need to be there and love and encourage them all they can.
No they all went they just showed you Kurt and Karafosky we don't see everything in context of the show that actually happened with in the characters week and we skip weeks.
I hate how Quinn said how Dave was selfish , it was rude to say how he only thought of hurting others when he was getting harassed constantly , it’s disrespectful
If they'd acknowledged that Quinn was basically date-raped by Puck it'd make my theory about her in this scene make even more sense, but I still think the issue was that she was still struggling with her being bullied when she was overweight and her being a teenage mum, because I think that when some people go through a lot they become compassionate and sympathetic because they know what it's like to be an outcast or to feel insignificant, whereas some people end up identifying themselves through their struggles and find it difficult to be sympathetic to other peoples struggles or admit that others have had it just as bad as they did if not worse because they're afraid to let go of their struggles hold on them and begin to redefine themselves because to do that they need to stop focusing solely on their troubles and consider others. It's hard to put your life back together and some people just give up because they find it too hard, though I don't think Quinn can admit that to herself just yet. It'd make more sense if her being basically assaulted was drawn attention to, but at least that line of logic shows that Karofsky is on his way to recovery when he said to Kurt "I made your life a living hell for months, and then I couldn't take a week of it."
Quinn wasn’t date raped by Puck. She wasn’t drunk at all and gaslighted Puck. SHE lured him to her house and forced him to do the deed. People need to stop vilifying Puck and victimizing Quinn.
Kurt came out to his dad, who had the most understanding and compassionate response ever. Quinn had to tell her dad she was pregnant and he threw her out of the house and Kurt is the one who is saying, “Have a little compassion”? Kurt, you are way out of line.
I hate how Kurt knows Exactly what Karofsky went through and Quinn's like "You will never compare-" Like no Quinn it's nothing like what you went through
Quinn's viewpoint was hypocritical. Both of their situations were bad and actually share some basic similarities (othering, disownment), but as a whole are two different experiences. It's an apple versus orange debate at that point.
I think Kurt could and should have defended his position differently, without downplaying what happened to Quinn. Having a baby at 16 and getting kicked out of her house is next-level suffering too
It was she who began to minimize other people's feelings, wanting to emphasize that she suffered more. Kurth only returned the irony of her point of view, only by changing situations. 😊
I think Kurt acted ignorant here to Quinn’s struggles, yes we all go through terrible things but it’s not a contest. No one wants to be in a bad position
But she said the key words "I can't imagine". If you can't even fathom something, sit back and listen to those who can. If you don't know what it's like to feel suicidal, then instead of being accusatory and judgemental, listen to people who've been through the struggle. He shouldn't have been so dismissive of her pain, but calling suicide selfish and implying it's immoral is a gross oversimplification and reduction of it's complexity. ESPECIALLY when you're able to admit that you don't even really understand what it is.
Everyone hates Quinn in this scene and i dont see why. Kurt stepped over the boundaries in this scene by a long-shot and had no right to downplay what Quinn went through. Here, he says that being gay is worse than hating yourself to the point of changing everything about yourself, getting pregnant at 16, kicked out of your house, and struggle with post-partum depression that apparently is only obvious to audience and all glee clubbers ignore. Yeah, being gay is hard, but so is what Quinn went through. Sadness is still sadness no matter the degree, its just that how much one can take depends on the person.
Exactly. And the fact that, at that point, people were STILL harassing Dave on his FB telling him to try again? She had friends through her hardship, Dave had/has no one.
Talking from my own experience, when it is online it does not stop, EVER. You are bombarded with hate and you get to a point of utter selflothing and isolation. It feels as if you have gallen down a well of some kind and you can't get out but everyone can get you. Your affraid to pick up your phone everytime it buzzs. Affraid to show your face. Affraid to go on social media. Yeah sadness is sadness. But hate is hate and online it never stops. it never gets better or easier to deal with.
Epo I agree with your last statement but Quinn shouldn't have said it was selfish of him. She had zero room to talk about selfishness. She harassed Finn to get money to give to her even though it wasn't his and she cheated on him. She had the baby and gave it up for adoption and was lucky that Rachel's birth mother took her because otherwise the baby would've been completely fucked over, used and used Finn over and over again, cheated on Sam, nearly got herself killed because she was texting and driving, (which by the way she's just lucky she didn't hurt someone else), bullied Rachel relentlessly (for no reason btw), always wanted to be popular and hurt other people because of her insecurities, nearly got the mother of her own child fired, hurt the glee club that always stood by her throughout her pregnancy, I'm sure I could think of more things if I looked back on the show. The funny is Quinn had a choice to sleep with puckerman, karofsky didn't have a choice in his sexuality.
@AwkwardUkulele So? No one is saying Quinn was right. Quinn was wrong too. Like you said, they did the exact same thing. Yet people are defending Kurt for calling Quinn out on what she did, when he immediately after proceeded to do the same thing to her. Kuer was partially right, but it became hipocritical when he started minimizing Quinn's problems.
Quinn doesnt know anything that Kurt or Karofsky are going through she thinks because some people called her a few names that she got kicked from cheer that shes been through hell and back
Called a few names lol you don't know what tf ur on about. Karovsky was mean and rude, Kurt's just sympathizing with him cuz Karvosky played the victim card
After this its finn and Rachel talking about dying young and how they couldnt live without each other. That hit hard because of corey and how he was only 31. Rest in peace corey
Quinn was kicked out of her own house by her own parents. She got kicked out of Cheerios (something she loved) and lost her popularity (which means that a lot of her "friends" stopped hanging out with her). Yes she was still loved but she also lost a lot of love. What she said was wrong, but shame on Kurt for minimizing what she went through. Karofsky was probably still loved too. Some people being assholes doesn't mean NO ONE loved him. Did you see his father cry when he found him? At the very least he clearly loved him.
Being suicidal is not about selfishness, being pregnant as a teen is nothing compared to being LGBT and living with fear, knowing that a lot of counties still see LGBT as a crime, being raised in a very conservative background, there's no comparison between the two, that's one of the reasons I hate Quinn
Suicide is self - his family needs the prayers more than he does...???? As Kurt said, "show some empathy"! For a person to reach the point where living hurts more than not existing to enjoy the possibility of joy and happiness, that's daunting. To them, even waiting for a small moment where they can smile or laugh or love, they find it perilous. This part shows that in reality, people are selfish even towards others who are suffering. I don't like the random comments like "it gets better" or "keep fighting", people in pain needs help reducing or escaping the pain. We should strive to not only affirm but actively suggest and involve ourselves in ways that can help these people. For example in the scene with Kurt and David in the hospital, not only did Kurt said it will be hard, and some days suck; he also showed him a practical way to escape and feel happier.
Quinn as a character jjst makes me so mad especially when it comes to this situation. I have attempted before, I am not selfish. I hit a bump I felt I couldn't get over and didn't know how to get my way out.
Why Kurt? Why? Why are you blaming yourself? You don't owe that jerk anything. In fact, he owes YOU. This is why Kurt will always be the better man. Despite what Karofsky put him through, he still has enough compassion in him to feel sorry for the same bully that made his life hell. More than I can say for myself.
My only problem with the Kurt vs. Quinn part is that they didn’t have a reconciliation scene before the episode was over. Ryan Murphy should have had them talk before the performance, apologize to each other, admit they are both trying to figure out problems high schoolers shouldn’t have to worry about.
the saddest part of this scene is Quinn telling her friends that Dave was being selfish and tried to hurt his family and other people who cares about him but she also should think about the hardships and hurt that Dave has been through because she went through that too, like getting kicked out of her home for being pregnant, lying about who was the father, giving up her baby to someone else, and Terri using her to give her baby to her just to keep up a lie. But Quinn would never do anything life threatening and I should know cause it happened to me, after getting bullied, harassed, having staff at opportunity partners do nothing to keep me safe, my ex-boss Mike did the same thing when it happened at EPCO. I thought about suicide once but I never did it cause it will hurt my family if I followed through with it, even though I was in a dark place and having these thoughts but you should never consider taking your life, it's not worth it, it's not worth hurting yourself or your family. Suicide is not the answer. If you need help, consider having support like therapy.
I totally understand what kurt was feeling. The most painful thing in the world is that you know could have done something to prevent it from happening even though it wasn't your fault for it to happen.
God how I hated Quinn in this episode😡, she choose everything that happened to her. Se could also use a condom when she slept with puck, she choose to smoke and to dye her hair. Korofsky was just being himself and was being punished for that 😔
Enrique V but that has nothing to do with how she acted in this episode, I felt sorry for her but this happened before that so that doesn’t excuse her behaviour
puck lied about protection she asked for it and he said "dont worry" and didnt use it and also she was super drunk and feeling insecure and yes she chose to be kicked out of her house, and she chose being hit by a car and she chose to have whatever mental issued that caused her to smoke and dye her hair and breakdown in NY
Trying to argue that suicide is selfish will make it worse... they wouldn't even be in that situation if the "loved ones" showed love.. During that time their mind will tell them its getting them out the way and will help everyone else have a better life. Christian or not if you think thats selfish you're the selfish one.
Those writers had no idea how to write Quinn. She would go from the most mature insightful teen one episode to this another. Zero consistency and such wasted opportunity.
I hated Kurt so much right now. Quinn's pregnancy and dye job was more than a spur of the moment. Everything was taken away from her and like Karosfsky, her lies mounted to her depression. For him to invalidate her was disgusting.
But like he said, the world never stopped loving her. She was kicked out, but months later, after living with close friends (or Finn. I don't remember) she came home. Her hair dye never got her bullied, and both the baby and the hair dye were spur of the moment things. She didn't use protection, she got pregnant. She wanted to be an outcast, she got a hair dye that no one bullied her harshly for. Yes she was bullied for a while but she always had friends to turn to. Karofsky didn't. Everyone online hurt him, his calls were unanswered, and I honestly think they portrayed the whole thing amazingly because it shows perfectly how bad some people's lives can get, before committing suicide.
Your taking the side of someone who is blaming the victim of cyber bullying and calling them weak and saying they don't derserve sympathy and compassion when they try to kill themselves. Even Kurt who was bullied by him could understand how could she not. Kurt was right the world never stopped loving her she always had someone to turn too and she made the mistake of having sex and she's the baby for acting stupid and dying her hair and even bashing the only place that helped her when she was her lowest. Quinn's been through a lot but that doesn't mean she earns the right to tell someone their problems aren't "that bad" trust me it doesn't help anyone. She's extremely selfish not even caring about someone who tried to kill themselves. What kind of decent human being wouldn't try to understand what he was going through and try to understand maybe why, why was he at such a low point that he did think it was necessary to take his own life. Screw you Quinn Kurt was right.
I’m trans and I’m a Christian. God loves you PERIOD. Not only if you go to church every Sunday or are straight or you wait to have sex until you’re married. And suicidal people already feel guilty enough without being called selfish, like if you say people are selfish do you honestly think they will come to you when they feel like killing themselves? God is always portrayed as being this abusive monster who punished you for the tiniest thing, when in reality he is the most loving and understanding being in the universe. I don’t care if you agree or not because you do not own salvation and you don’t get to dictate the rules of salvation. God does.
Quinn shouldn’t have said that. Suicide isn’t selfish. But Kurt was SO wrong. He, the boy who was supported and loved by his own family said to the girl who got kicked out of her own house that she was the one who had always been loved. Honestly Kurt you were the one who had always been loved and supported by everyone, not Quinn.
Quinn began to minimize other people's pain, there was no way she would wait for them to agree with such an idiotic, imbecile, bestial, stupid, ridiculous, immature, asshole and disgusting comment.
I have two boys . an amazing husband But I struggle with stress/anxiety/depression . I have suicidal thoughts . and me personally I always feel that it make my family's life easier without me in it. I'm seeking help ofcourse . but anyone that is unable to imagine how people can get to such dark places are the lucky ones.
yep. that’s the thing a lot of people who haven’t considered suicide don’t know-people feel like the people in their life would be better off without them
When people call suicide selfish I’ll say one thing:
Many people a vast majority, who try to end their lives actually feel like they're doing people a favor.
Exactly
Then it’s ignorant
No it’s kind of a pity party. Karofskt wasn’t like that. He didn’t want to be around the bullying anymore so he took himself. That’s different. Saying “oh no one wants me here and I’ll be doing a favor” that’s untrue, and it’s just a pity lie to justify selfishness
@@meltedcheese7798 you suck as a human being. You are cold, heartless, insensitive, and dismissive.
@@brettlarch8050 You don’t know me. Why don’t you fucking chill. I’m not gonna respond anymore because unless you mature a little to have a discussion with someone without blowing up then I have nothing to say to you
Suicide is not selfish. People take their own lives because they feel there is no other option and it is too painful to live. People don't do it to hurt their loved ones. I just hate it when people say it's selfish.
tilly coulter Yup. It's more selfish to disregard someone's feelings and make them feel so bad about themselves that they consider taking their own life because some asshole has made them believe their life isn't worth living.
theres a reason is a sin...
@@desisarod Sins are made up, just like the rest of the Bible.
Sometimes they are trying to spare them pain
When I was suicidal one of the reasons I wanted to die was to make everyone suffer.. so not for everyone.
I love how sam’s just kinda sitting there like, “boi”
What Quinn said hurts me so much, it's no different from what my own mother told me after I confessed I had thoughts of suicide.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. Your loved ones are the ones that should help you through a time like that not make things worse. I hope you're feeling better now and that you received the help you needed. If you ever want to talk I'm here for you (souloutmein@gmail.com). Love you ❤
You’re not selfish for having suicidal thoughts. Even 2 years later, I’m sorry your mother said that to you. It was likely her mind’s attempt to understand what was happening to you, and it ended up just being a cruel attack. But that doesn’t excuse it.
I hope the best for you.
If Quinn can't understand, then she has never been in a place /that/ dark
Exactly.
@Akshay Natu yo wtf??
@Akshay Natu and why do you wish someone had succeeded in killing themself?
@Akshay Natu two wrongs don’t make a right ya know. It takes strength to restrain yourself from hurting your tormentors. I’m sorry that you wish death upon a (fictional) person, and I undoubtedly believe you’ve wished death on others, but leave your negative crap to yourself eh?
@Akshay Natu I’m gonna guess you’ve been hurt a lot mate. And I’m really sorry you’ve been hurt. You’re very clearly projecting your pain on a fictional character. If you want to speak in a productive manner, I’m happy to do so. Hatred and bitterness only hurts you and others.
It's even harder to watch when you see the last season, and see that Kurt actually thought about killing himself too
Dave ended up in Helheim
This scene is so much powerful after the '2009' episode in season 6 when Kurt was looking at the suicide pamplets. :(
Peanut butter circle tells me everything Mike knows 1 or more secrets. Kurt being near tears. Blaine and Artie's fidgety hands avoiding eye contact during story they've been there.
The way Kurt was talking, it definitely seemed like he was talking about himself as well as Karofsky. Now we know he had been suicidal for at least part of the time he was at McKinley. Heartbreaking & powerful. Those who don't know what it's like to be suicidal have no right to judge.
I totally forgot about the fact that Dave tried to reach out to Kurt for help. I probably would have ignored the calls too because I wouldn't have known Dave's circumstance at the time. Oh wow, the amount of guilt he must have been feeling :(
I dislike Dave
Quinn is what I hate about religion. But Joe shows it’s beauty.
The fact that Quinn managed to stay religious is the most unrealistic thing in this entire show. If she had shown up to one of those cult houses (also known as Christian churches) they would have shot her dead without an ounce of hesitation.
It makes sense now why Kurt defended the thought of suicide, because even he considered it. It's so sad :(
Everyone hating on Quinn, it isn't like she's the only one in the world who feels this way. She was still in high school, she was young. A lot of people, not just young people, will never understand the kind of self hatred and depression that can lead to self-harm and suicide. The writers were just trying to show that.
Genie Hossain finally someone who gets it!
+Leonel Colina you can’t compare the situations here. THAT’S reductive
Yes, they don't understand. That is the point. If you don't understand something, either ask questions and educate yourself, or accept that you don't really care and keep your ignorant assumptions to yourself. Instead of making harmful judgement calls and sweeping statements about something you readily admit you DO NOT understand. That is why Quinn is getting hate. Not because she doesn't understand, but because she thinks she has a right to speak so harshly on something she doesn't understand. The real irony is how mad she got at Kurt for essentially doing exactly the same thing to her by turning her judgement around back towards her. She was quick enough to get defensive once the lens was focused on her.
I’m young and I’ve understood since I was 13 that suicide isn’t selfish. That you should help someone is suicidal, never blame them. Age isn’t the problem. Ignorance is.
@@ryannbrazil for a few years,u will realize that suicide is selfish
Joe looked a little taken aback by the things that Quinn said.
The Suicide episode was emotionally intense..Chris Colfer's acting here is really intense to watch too, esp. when Kurt says "I feel responsible."
This scene is really good, but the “we’re taking an edible arrangement to the hospital” always takes me out 😭😭😭
Listening to Darren Criss's song "Cough Syrup" still brings back the intensity I felt while watching Max Adler's character attempting suicide. My hat goes off to the writers and actors!
Kurt was 100% right. And really calling suicide selfish is the actual selfish thing. Everyone has the right to their own life. No one else owns you. If you want to, though it's sad and I would wish no one would, it is still your right. Telling suicidal people they should just deal with life to protect other people when they haven't had to deal with this person's depression is disgusting.
Couldn't have said it better myself DX
I think that the writers were just trying to show anouther side of the story
HonBon96 the reason most people see it as selfish is because they are ending their problems, but causing much more suffering to everyone around them. Most Christians (such as myself) believe it is a selfish thing due to this being said in the bible. And I have been suicidal a few times in my life, the one thing that stops me is that I hate to see my loved ones in pain
I think trying to commit suicide is selfish. Yeah, Quinn opinion lacked any empathy, but when you try to commit suicide you do it for you And it's coming from someone who can relate personally.
Actually, I know some people who are suicidal and yes, I am a Christian, but I can see from their perspective. They do it because they believe that everyone around them and the whole world would be better off without them. They don’t see it as hurting anyone, they think they are doing everyone around them a favor.
what karofsky did to kurt was awful but no one should be outed like that
Honestly I wouldn't compare what Quinn went through to Karofsky been through.
Quinn got pregnant and easily made Finn believe he was the father bc he love Quinn that much to support her. Once guys would have run, plus if Finn was smart enough to believe he wasnt the father. Quinn still had Puck, maybe irresponsible at times but wouldn't abandon her either. Her parents kick her out, Finn's mom welcome her with open arms to her home. Puck also let her live in her house. Mercedes let her live in her house too and treated her like family. Got kick out of the Cheerios but she still had Glee, who gave her nothing but love and support. Her mom, even welcome her back home. Karofsky bullied Kurt because he wanted to hide the fact he was gay. He saw how his friends hated Kurt for being gay and didnt want to go through that. He wasnt as lucky as Kurt to believe that there are people in the world that will love him even if he is gay because no one gave him a reason to believe in that. People gave reasons to Quinn.
I understand why you would support both sides but I just can't support Quinn, what she said was horrible, suicide is not selfish, she does not know how hard it is to get so beaten down that the only escape you see fit is suicide, sure, she was pregnant and lost a lot of friends but she still had her true friends, Karofsky had nothing. He was so beaten down and no one was there for him, he felt all alone and worthless. Quinn didn't understand that and that's not necessarily her fault, but she should watch out with what she says, it's hard to understand the true feeling of being suicidal until you're there so I can't blame her for not knowing, but even if you haven't been there, you should at least be considerate and not insult the victim.
@@coderainbow2581 and I’m assuming g you’ve never been in a very dark place of your life?
Because you clear have no clue what you’re talking about
If you think suicide is selfish you’re part of the problem
@@coderainbow2581 my friend committed suicide and I’ll never blame her for it. She had depression, she couldn’t help herself and she never asked for it. I feel sorry for your loss, But at the same time I’m sad that you are calling your loss one selfish. They are victims of mental health deceases and in Dave’s case, it was the homophobes pushed him to the edge.
@@sinman3189 my bad
I’m a survivor of suicide. It was my first year of middle school and I had no one. I talked to my school counselor and he gave me advice. But I never listened. So one night, I tried to take a hunting knife in my closet and stab myself, but I stopped it. And then in order to stop thinking about it, I cried myself to sleep.
Wanting to die isn't an easy choice, sometimes it's not even a choice at all, it's a feeling. It's not a good choice or feeling. I've had that feeling before. Couldn't stop thinking of it. I wasn't trying to be selfish. I was trying to be happy. And I felt that was the only way. They were both opinions of each side. Not right nor wrong. Just opinions. No one should be treated as lesser than or insulted for attempting suicide but no one should feel the need to do it. I just wish he could have gotten help before he attempted. I wish anyone who had attempted got help before they did.
This moment alone just makes me wanna say two things:
A year ago I commented on this that when people call suicide selfish, let me tell you a fact: a vast majority of suicidal people feel like they're doing the world a favor. That's why they take their lives. They feel like a burden and they feel like they don't belong anywhere. They have no hope, extreme loneliness, and despair. All it takes is one saying:
I GOT YOU BUD!
Secondly, for those who blame themselves like Kurt, never ever blame yourself. It is not your fault that they tried or were successful. They were trying their hardest to be strong and they couldn't be strong anymore.
Well. I mean her pregnancy and bad hair dye job was a consequence of her actions. She cheated with Puck and got herself knocked up. Despite the other glee members trying to help her, she took them for granted. And she only cared about her fame/image. Kinda of selfish. And I thought christians are against premarital sex or cheating?
As for gay individuals, it isn't a choice that they were gay. It is society's rejection that cause them pain and suffering.
Sage 2 Quinn was grateful. She got them the photo in the yearbook from Sue and refused to rejoin because she was glad to be in a club that accepted her. She stopped being mean to Rachel and actually helped her a couple of time, even though Rachel told a secret that wasn't hers to tell (all so Finn would date her). She helped Mercedes when no one (including Kurt) when she was starving herself, she taught her she was beautiful. She told Mercedes she deserved love not a jerk like Puck. And she did thank Mercedes for letting her move in while they were hugging. She stopped being a bad person halfway through season 1. She was actually a nice friend the rest of the time.
Chiara Farmer She eventually did gradually. But that doesn't mean she still doesn't look out for herself. Again. I was initially making a comparison and not how she changed.
I wholeheartedly agree with this
Does no one remeber when her dad kicked her out? Or am i just imagining things?
I agree with everything especially about Quinn, but when Quinn slept with puck he got her drunk. Like super drunk mad she was feeling super insecure puck took advantage of her in such a dark place.
Everyone is either hating on Quinn or Kurt. They were both right, and wrong in different ways. Kurt didn’t have to bring up the stuff Quinn went through, but on the other hand, Quinn made it seem as if Karofsky took his own life just to hurt others. In my opinion, I thought that Kurt had the better point, although, I believe Quinn did go through a lot throughout the course of the first and third season, pregnancy, rebellion and a car crash.
This was before the car crash so that doesn't count to validate her perspective here. When she was paralyzed, I feel like that is when she had really seen her darkest days, because she had actually started to lose hope for her future.
Quinn’s struggles do not make her the authority to speak to anyone else’s pain and suffering.
Nobody hating on Kurt
@@michonnewalker4246true, the entire fandom loves him, and myself included
Kurt only brought it up because Quinn did
Most people who try to commit sucide aren’t doing it to hurt themselves or others they’re doing it because they want the hurting to stop. Quinn saying that Dave’s parents need comfort more than him makes me angry. Calling him selfish and trying to equate her experiences with his is just... “i went through the wringer but I never got to that place” and then she has the gall to jump down Kurt’s throat for comparing her and Dave when she literally just did. “Oh no he got outed and bullied but I got pregnant and kicked off the cheer squad, /I/ never tried to off myself so he must be doing this for selfish reasons” honestly Quinn Fabray’s ‘poor me’ Schtick got old before the end of season one. Maybe I’m just biased against bitchy cheerleaders or people who’s problems are the direct result/consequence of their actions.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Quinn didn’t have a suckish experience as a teen mom. But saying Dave doesn’t need comfort when he just tried to kill himself? That’s not okay. Nobody really even messed with Quinn about the pregnancy, any bullying she experienced was almost entirely Glee Club related and, though it sounds old fashioned, if you don’t want to get preggers dont have sex. Or behave like the smart high schooler you supposedly are and idk USE PROTECTION. She didn’t even know who the father was for sure. All the problems she did have in regards to the baby could have been more or less avoided/resolved if she had been honest with her parents (and Finn and Puck) to begin with. Again I probably sound like an insensitive bitch and I apologize if I upset anyone. This is just my opinion and interpretation of the material.
" I don't know how life could get so bad that you'd want to do that". That's the point. You dont, so stop judging the dude. Yes he messed up but so did she
Didn't judge him. She just didn't understand.
@@ngoziaguariavwodo779 Calling a suicide attempt "incredibly selfish" and saying he wanted to hurt everyone else around him along with himself is definitely judging.
@@EclecticallyEccentric I sometimes wonder if Quinn contemplated to commit herself.
Okay. Blahblahblah argue about suicide, and who was mean to whom. This scene is about Quinn's hypocrisy - that she was there to pray for Karofsky, but she also openly resented him. Kurt pointed it out to her, she understood quickly and tried to press on, and he cut her off again. He did the right thing, probably, in keeping Quinn from poisoning a special moment of support for Karofsky.
I didn’t like Quinn the entire time anyway. She annoyed me.
But I stand by what I say whenever people say “I can’t imagine wanting to take your own life.” I respond with “How lucky you are to not know that feeling” I don’t say it with malice because I genuinely feel happy for those who have never felt such a draining feeling.
Quinn comparing her pain of being pregnant at 16 and missing being "cool" with, being reject by society, bullied to death or even being threatened just for being who you are is ironically selfish of her in a way, it's like a rich person that is mad because the Iphone is running out of charge while there's people starving...
Although I don’t agree with her, you’re pretty severely minimizing what she went through. She got pregnant at 16 and had to hide it from her family, was disowned by her parents, became a school outcast overnight and got into a serious car accident
Quinn's audacity to call Dave selfish and compare herself with him it's actually outrageous. Like how dare she
Facts
I think s lot of people who minimize Quinn's pain forget her own father disowned her
Exactly
Her father was cheating, he was bound to leave her life either way
Ok? And?
How does that give her the right to judge others experiences?
@@smwatertasteslikewater that's what kurt was doing to her
Quinn please you had a baby at 16 and a bad dye job but the world never stopped loving you." Like he was gatekeeping pain to just the LGBT community
@@carlyedwards1422 how getting pregnant is a pain? LGBTs are dying and being persecuted just because they love someone, being LGBT is still a crime in several countries unlike getting pregnant as a teen
calling suicidal people selfish literally just makes them more self-loathing and drives them closer to total alienation from people who might be able to help them.
"I can't imagine things getting so messed up you would take your own life" Good for you! Not everybody has the luxury to say that. Your experience says nothing about his, or anyone else's.
Kurt was right. Quinn was honestly the queen of the school and that never truly changed
Kurt knows more than anything how Karofsky feels. Because he was in his shoes once
I see both sides. Both sides were right. Taking your own life is a selfish act but it's necessary to have compassion in a time like this to help him get through what he's going through.
She did show compassion. She feels sorry for him. She feels sorry for the dad more which is fine
If you feel that dying is the better option to stop the pain that you're feeling, that's not selfish. What's selfish is thinking that the world revolves around you and the suicidal actions of another, affects your more than the trauma that said individual is going through.
Take a moment to focus on the pain of the individual and help them realize that life is worth living, rather than telling them that they're selfish, which doesn't do anything but hurt the person more.
How is suicide selfish? Its someone being so fed up with self loathing and hatred that they feel as if nobody would care if they died. It would only be a selfish act if you did it specifically to hurt someone. And that's not what most people do.
What people don't understand is how alone and unloved a suicidal person feels. It's like finding out everyone you've ever loved or cared for left you forever. It's as if your being torn apart. Saying suicide is selfish is completely and utterly disgusting.
Look up Emile Durkheim's studies on suicide, particularly altruistic suicide. That is literally the opposite of a selfish act. To believe that ALL suicide is selfish actually just displays your own selfish thinking. 'How does their suicide affect ME, why didn't they think about ME and MY feelings and put MY interests before their own instead of taking what clearly felt like the only option to them at a time of deep suffering'. You may be substituting yourself with 'that person's family/friends/loved ones', but the thought process is the same. You're thinking of how you would feel if it was someone directly connected to you. So to point the finger and call someone else selfish is somewhat ironic.
It also utterly disregards the many, many suicides that occur in people who don't have any loved ones to leave behind. Not everyone out there has a family, or a partner, or a social circle. One of the biggest causes of suicide is loneliness and social isolation. Sure someone has to recover their body, but that's professionals who are trained and paid to do so, not anybody who is forced to. Are you seriously reducing a life down to someone having to stretcher their remains to the morgue? "They should've carried on living a hell I couldn't possibly imagine so that no one else would have to bother with the funerary process." Please. Get some perspective outside of your own little bubble.
Calling someone suicidal selfish is actually one of the most disgusting, reprehensible and selfish things I can imagine a human being doing to another human being. It is reducing their unimaginable suffering down to an inconvenience. It shows total contempt for them as a person. Shame on anyone who does so.
Taking you own life is not selfish, sometimes people think the world would be better off without them, what is selfish about that? The only ones the think about are others and not themselves, that's the opposite of being selfish
Preach it Kurt
I wish they would of expanded on Quinn's moments like this. I wish they would of had her saying this because she thought about it
Quinn was able to say this because she has no idea what it feels like, how much pain you have to be in to want to end it all,she can say alls he wants that she went through the ringer, but like Kurt said the world never stopped loving her, she has no idea what someone could be feeling when they want to end it all, she can’t even comprehend, and that’s why she can say it, because if she felt the same way she would be broken
Kurt had no right to blame himself especially after what Karosky put him through. I feel sorry for Karosky what they put on the internet page you think that people would grow up after seeing a tragedy like that. I shudder to think how much hate mail Max Adler got.
I've been there too and when you feel like the world hates you, why would you care if you hurt others. You feel like those closest to you will morn you for a while then move on, and nobody else will care. Quinn just sounded really naive
Okay I get what Kurt’s point here is but Quinn has been through a lot. He says the world never stopped loving her but her world did. She was pregnant as a sophomore, she was kicked out of the cheerleader squad, she lost all her friends, everyone started bullying her, she lost her boyfriend, and she got disowned by her parents all within the span of a couple months.
But her circumstances were completely different from Dave or Kurth, she spoke from her ignorance and her stupid religion, which is why I could never stand her.
God i hated quinn in this scene
Same, I never liked her but in this scene she was too stupid
This is why Kurt is my fav character. Even after everything he was still compassionate enough to talk with him. This is why I also think he deserved better than Blaine after him doing him so dirty.
When I was 13 I was going through a really bad time. My parents had a pretty messy divorce, I was mercilessly bullied at school and my mother was verbally and emotionally neglectful and abusive towards me. I felt like I couldn’t take any of it anymore so one day I was at my mum’s; she’d gone out and I was alone. I was watching GLEE on Netflix and was thinking about killing myself because I felt like I couldn’t face another minute of my life; there was a bottle of Tylenol in the kitchen and I kept thinking about that. Then just before I was about to pause the show and go get that bottle of Tylenol and some water the Cough Syrup/Karofsky attempts suicide scene came on. I was drawn to it and when I saw Dave struggling the way I was struggling at that moment the feeling that I was alone left and when I saw the scene where Dave’s father came in it made me think of my Dad (who I love so so much) and how much I’d devastate him if I’d killed myself; I then thought of my eldest nephew (who was three at the time) and how it would affect his life. I broke down and cried. I realised that I still have so much to live for; my cat saw me crying and he comforted me. When the scene was over I paused and went into the kitchen like I’d planned but instead I fed my cat, got a glass of water, a strawberry yogurt and a spoon then went back into the living room and continued watching the show. I have had suicidal thoughts since but I always think of that day and I remind myself what I have to live for. This scene literally saved my life.
I have been in that suicidal state of mind a few times in my life and I sympathise with anyone who is struggling. It is NOT a selfish act, it’s human emotions and we all cope with things in our life differently. I have only love and sympathy for those who are in that suicidal state of mind and I hope they know that they do not have to feel any shame for feeling like that.
And thank you GLEE for reminding me of what I have to live for....
Quinn lives in a different reality that's why she couldn't see how hard was do Dave. I get both of their sides.
This is the scene that made me hate Quinn. What Kurt means by the world didn’t stop loving Quinn is that when you attempt suicide, it’s because you feel hopeless and like there’s no other future. Quinn tried to make herself the martyr with her pregnancy. She cheated with Puck but told Finn it was his because he would be the “better dad”. So she could have a nice family life even if it Finn wasn’t ready for the responsibility. When her dad kicked her out, Carol let her move in with them until it came out that Finn wasn’t the father. Then Mercedes let her move in. Let’s not forget how she planned to sell her baby to Mr. Shuester’s wife. Oh yeah, the reason she gave Beth away is because Puck wouldn’t be a good dad, when both of them were the parents.
That one is so long but I needed to continue. Quinn’s life was “over” in the way all dumb teenagers think they’re life is over. That’s high school but in college none of it matters. But Kurt and Dave will never fit in. They would be looked down all their lives by people who hate them because they’re different. Was gay marriage even legal when this episode aired? Quinn didn’t grow up in an environment that taught her to hate herself; Kurt and Dave did.
I’ll end with Kurt didn’t minimize Quinn’s pain but tried to open her eyes to how other people felt. Her snide comment about how Kurt wouldn’t want to compare their pain, just shows that she had no compassion for anyone but herself. Kurt lost his mom when he was 6, he’s been bullied his whole life, his dad had a heart attack, he was sexually assaulted twice, and was threatened to be killed. With no help from the glee club or the school faculty, even if it was in plain view. That’s the type of hopelessness Quinn never and will never experience.
censored Quinn’s parents kicked her out of her house, she lost her dad after that 🤷🏻♂️
Both things are difficult so stop comparing them
@@enriquev1271She is the one who began to minimize Dave's pain, she has to endure the tables being turned
Quinn, I love you. I really do, but Karofsky did not want to hurt those around him. He just wanted to end the pain, not hurt those around him. I know you went through a hard time, but a lot of people still loved you, but you took them all for granted.
Kurt is right in this case. Quinn’s side of things is not even slightly comparable to Karofsky and Kurt. She doesn’t know what it’s like. She was about to let her boyfriend raise a child that wasn’t hers. She was the selfish one in this case, not admitting her own mistakes but putting Karofsky down for others’ harm.
It really is fascinating the level or narcissism and uncaring when people say suicide is selfish, making it all about everyone else and not the actual person.
You know when finn said " no one could ever say anything that would make me do that" Well Cory died in the middle of the show from and over dose😭
I am getting sick of people saying suicide is selfish. Why would you all say that? Have you been there? No! Those who haven't been through the thought of suicide believe it's selfish because they never been there! I have! But I never did it. So don't it's selfish. People are just so tired and hurt of all the pain, anguish, feeling hopeless, and the terror. And before people say, "They should reach out," ITS NOT THAT EASY! I did the same thing when I was bullied. They DIDN'T do anything! It still kept going and going! So why go for help when no adult is going to give it to you? Have you thought about that? I understand what Quinn went through, yes she was pregnant, and her father kicked her out, but she did all that by herslef. She cheated on Finn, she cared about popularity. Karofsky was trying to deny who he was. And he was scared and alone. Just like Kurt. I was bullied by boys and girls for no apparent reason. I had some guy friends who helped me. My family and sisters, and my friends, and God are the reason I am here! And I could not be more grateful. So suicide is not selfish. Unless you went to that place, do NOT EVER SAY suicide is selfish
omg, joe is really cute!! 😻
and so is sam!
ZHYBOO Davis YASSSSSS
Saying suicide is selfish is just wrong. Why do you think most suicide notes starts with an apology like "this wasn't your fault" or "I'm sorry"?? they're not doing it to hurt people around them. They do it because they feel like it's their only option to not feel constant pain.
Kurt just layed the smackdown on Quinn! Take that!
I agree with Kurt too. He knew what karofsky was going through and understood that karofsky lost the will to live and decided that a life he was not happy was not a life worth living. Only Kurt would have been able to comfort him because he was the only one who suffered like karofsky when nobody else will see him as a human and hate him because he is TRUE.
KURTISM 4 LIFE.
Quinn was gonna talk back and argue, but she chose to let it go instead as it wasn't worth it
@@mm-gz3hqIt wasn't worth continuing to say stupid things, because from the moment she opened his mouth she didn't do a damn thing, she kept minimizing other people's pain, she got the comment she deserved.
i agree with kurt.
The world DID stop loving her. The glee club of course never stopped loving her but what about the rest of the world? Sue said she was a disgrace and Finn dumped her. And we can’t forget about how even her own parents kicked her out of their house! They had no idea where she was going to live and they could care less. Kurt shouldn’t have said that
Isabelle Stanley he cheated on her too. It wasn’t as serious, but at the time he didn’t know Quinn had cheated on him. Quinn made a mistake and I don’t blame Finn for dumping her. I’m just saying that the world did stop loving her
Exactly! people are talking about how Quinn should be open minded, I think Kurt should be open-minded as well. He does not know what she was going through, so who is he to dismiss her pain.
She is the one who started minimizing other people's pain, she deserves to have things turned around @@lha7735
I've read all these comments, and I can see both sides of the argument of suicide. Suicide IS a selfish act, but not necessarily INTENDED to be so by the person who's contemplating it. Their mind is in a state of despair for whatever reason, and suicide seems like the only way out. In that state of mind, nobody can think clearly. They're focused only on their own pain and how to make it stop. They're not thinking of their friends and loved ones, who care about them. That's just normal for anybody who's human. That's when that person's friends and family need to be there and love and encourage them all they can.
when mercedes said come with us didn't make sense cuz kurt was the only one who actually went and saw karofsky
No they all went they just showed you Kurt and Karafosky we don't see everything in context of the show that actually happened with in the characters week and we skip weeks.
I hate how Quinn said how Dave was selfish , it was rude to say how he only thought of hurting others when he was getting harassed constantly , it’s disrespectful
If they'd acknowledged that Quinn was basically date-raped by Puck it'd make my theory about her in this scene make even more sense, but I still think the issue was that she was still struggling with her being bullied when she was overweight and her being a teenage mum, because I think that when some people go through a lot they become compassionate and sympathetic because they know what it's like to be an outcast or to feel insignificant, whereas some people end up identifying themselves through their struggles and find it difficult to be sympathetic to other peoples struggles or admit that others have had it just as bad as they did if not worse because they're afraid to let go of their struggles hold on them and begin to redefine themselves because to do that they need to stop focusing solely on their troubles and consider others. It's hard to put your life back together and some people just give up because they find it too hard, though I don't think Quinn can admit that to herself just yet. It'd make more sense if her being basically assaulted was drawn attention to, but at least that line of logic shows that Karofsky is on his way to recovery when he said to Kurt "I made your life a living hell for months, and then I couldn't take a week of it."
Quinn wasn’t date raped by Puck. She wasn’t drunk at all and gaslighted Puck. SHE lured him to her house and forced him to do the deed. People need to stop vilifying Puck and victimizing Quinn.
Kurt came out to his dad, who had the most understanding and compassionate response ever. Quinn had to tell her dad she was pregnant and he threw her out of the house and Kurt is the one who is saying, “Have a little compassion”? Kurt, you are way out of line.
She's the one who started minimizing Dave's situation, let her put up with her own shit coming back to her.
I hate how Kurt knows Exactly what Karofsky went through and Quinn's like "You will never compare-"
Like no Quinn it's nothing like what you went through
Ya I hated Kurt there..only "gay pain" apparently matters to glee 🙄
@@lha7735wtf are you saying?
that's rude that she said that about him
Quinn's viewpoint was hypocritical. Both of their situations were bad and actually share some basic similarities (othering, disownment), but as a whole are two different experiences. It's an apple versus orange debate at that point.
Quinn honestly pissed me off when she said about Karofsky.
I love Quinn but I really hated what she said here
I think Kurt could and should have defended his position differently, without downplaying what happened to Quinn. Having a baby at 16 and getting kicked out of her house is next-level suffering too
It was she who began to minimize other people's feelings, wanting to emphasize that she suffered more. Kurth only returned the irony of her point of view, only by changing situations. 😊
I think Kurt acted ignorant here to Quinn’s struggles, yes we all go through terrible things but it’s not a contest. No one wants to be in a bad position
@@mfjsyth5718 yes both of them are but hes acting like Quinns life was a joke
🙄🙄🙄
@@naomikimbokimi9015She began by minimizing other people's pain, she deserved to get back the shit she let out.
But she said the key words "I can't imagine". If you can't even fathom something, sit back and listen to those who can. If you don't know what it's like to feel suicidal, then instead of being accusatory and judgemental, listen to people who've been through the struggle. He shouldn't have been so dismissive of her pain, but calling suicide selfish and implying it's immoral is a gross oversimplification and reduction of it's complexity. ESPECIALLY when you're able to admit that you don't even really understand what it is.
not the time but 1:58 we can see blaine and mike giving sugar singing lessons
why would they make quinn say that 💀💀💀
the writer hates the actor
@@coderainbow2581 it’s because that’s how Quinn is
She’s an awful person
@@smwatertasteslikewater she did some nice things
@@coderainbow2581 she is awful, her character was annoying and harsh to others
I haven't watched S3 but, I AM HOPING KLAINE ARE SUPPORTING EACH OTHER.
Everyone hates Quinn in this scene and i dont see why. Kurt stepped over the boundaries in this scene by a long-shot and had no right to downplay what Quinn went through. Here, he says that being gay is worse than hating yourself to the point of changing everything about yourself, getting pregnant at 16, kicked out of your house, and struggle with post-partum depression that apparently is only obvious to audience and all glee clubbers ignore. Yeah, being gay is hard, but so is what Quinn went through. Sadness is still sadness no matter the degree, its just that how much one can take depends on the person.
Totally agree
Exactly. And the fact that, at that point, people were STILL harassing Dave on his FB telling him to try again? She had friends through her hardship, Dave had/has no one.
Talking from my own experience, when it is online it does not stop, EVER. You are bombarded with hate and you get to a point of utter selflothing and isolation. It feels as if you have gallen down a well of some kind and you can't get out but everyone can get you. Your affraid to pick up your phone everytime it buzzs. Affraid to show your face. Affraid to go on social media. Yeah sadness is sadness. But hate is hate and online it never stops. it never gets better or easier to deal with.
Epo I agree with your last statement but Quinn shouldn't have said it was selfish of him. She had zero room to talk about selfishness. She harassed Finn to get money to give to her even though it wasn't his and she cheated on him. She had the baby and gave it up for adoption and was lucky that Rachel's birth mother took her because otherwise the baby would've been completely fucked over, used and used Finn over and over again, cheated on Sam, nearly got herself killed because she was texting and driving, (which by the way she's just lucky she didn't hurt someone else), bullied Rachel relentlessly (for no reason btw), always wanted to be popular and hurt other people because of her insecurities, nearly got the mother of her own child fired, hurt the glee club that always stood by her throughout her pregnancy, I'm sure I could think of more things if I looked back on the show. The funny is Quinn had a choice to sleep with puckerman, karofsky didn't have a choice in his sexuality.
@AwkwardUkulele So? No one is saying Quinn was right. Quinn was wrong too.
Like you said, they did the exact same thing. Yet people are defending Kurt for calling Quinn out on what she did, when he immediately after proceeded to do the same thing to her.
Kuer was partially right, but it became hipocritical when he started minimizing Quinn's problems.
You can tell that Kurt was heartbroken over Dave’s even. Know Dave bullying kurt . Kurt knew he was struggling and Dave was afraid to come out 💔
KURT MAH BOI YES 🙏
Kurt shut Quinn up real fast
Quinn doesnt know anything that Kurt or Karofsky are going through she thinks because some people called her a few names that she got kicked from cheer that shes been through hell and back
Called a few names lol you don't know what tf ur on about. Karovsky was mean and rude, Kurt's just sympathizing with him cuz Karvosky played the victim card
@@espydoo402 ah yes he played the victim card by attempting suicide
After this its finn and Rachel talking about dying young and how they couldnt live without each other. That hit hard because of corey and how he was only 31. Rest in peace corey
Quinn was kicked out of her own house by her own parents. She got kicked out of Cheerios (something she loved) and lost her popularity (which means that a lot of her "friends" stopped hanging out with her). Yes she was still loved but she also lost a lot of love.
What she said was wrong, but shame on Kurt for minimizing what she went through.
Karofsky was probably still loved too. Some people being assholes doesn't mean NO ONE loved him. Did you see his father cry when he found him? At the very least he clearly loved him.
Being suicidal is not about selfishness, being pregnant as a teen is nothing compared to being LGBT and living with fear, knowing that a lot of counties still see LGBT as a crime, being raised in a very conservative background, there's no comparison between the two, that's one of the reasons I hate Quinn
This
both are wrong. quinn is minimizing what dave went through, and kurt is minimizing what quinn went through.
He's giving her back the shit she threw away, she deserves it
Suicide is self - his family needs the prayers more than he does...???? As Kurt said, "show some empathy"! For a person to reach the point where living hurts more than not existing to enjoy the possibility of joy and happiness, that's daunting. To them, even waiting for a small moment where they can smile or laugh or love, they find it perilous. This part shows that in reality, people are selfish even towards others who are suffering. I don't like the random comments like "it gets better" or "keep fighting", people in pain needs help reducing or escaping the pain. We should strive to not only affirm but actively suggest and involve ourselves in ways that can help these people. For example in the scene with Kurt and David in the hospital, not only did Kurt said it will be hard, and some days suck; he also showed him a practical way to escape and feel happier.
Quinn as a character jjst makes me so mad especially when it comes to this situation. I have attempted before, I am not selfish. I hit a bump I felt I couldn't get over and didn't know how to get my way out.
Joe is so unproblematic
Imagine finding a reason to antagonize someone because they felt they can't continue in the world
Why Kurt? Why? Why are you blaming yourself? You don't owe that jerk anything. In fact, he owes YOU. This is why Kurt will always be the better man. Despite what Karofsky put him through, he still has enough compassion in him to feel sorry for the same bully that made his life hell. More than I can say for myself.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
This scene proves that Kurt is twice the man that Karofsky could ever be. So forgiving despite what that troll did to him.
My only problem with the Kurt vs. Quinn part is that they didn’t have a reconciliation scene before the episode was over. Ryan Murphy should have had them talk before the performance, apologize to each other, admit they are both trying to figure out problems high schoolers shouldn’t have to worry about.
the saddest part of this scene is Quinn telling her friends that Dave was being selfish and tried to hurt his family and other people who cares about him but she also should think about the hardships and hurt that Dave has been through because she went through that too, like getting kicked out of her home for being pregnant, lying about who was the father, giving up her baby to someone else, and Terri using her to give her baby to her just to keep up a lie. But Quinn would never do anything life threatening and I should know cause it happened to me, after getting bullied, harassed, having staff at opportunity partners do nothing to keep me safe, my ex-boss Mike did the same thing when it happened at EPCO. I thought about suicide once but I never did it cause it will hurt my family if I followed through with it, even though I was in a dark place and having these thoughts but you should never consider taking your life, it's not worth it, it's not worth hurting yourself or your family. Suicide is not the answer. If you need help, consider having support like therapy.
I totally understand what kurt was feeling. The most painful thing in the world is that you know could have done something to prevent it from happening even though it wasn't your fault for it to happen.
God how I hated Quinn in this episode😡, she choose everything that happened to her. Se could also use a condom when she slept with puck, she choose to smoke and to dye her hair. Korofsky was just being himself and was being punished for that 😔
She got in a car accident at the end of this episode..
Enrique V but that has nothing to do with how she acted in this episode, I felt sorry for her but this happened before that so that doesn’t excuse her behaviour
So, if its your own fault being in a complicated situation that males you want to conmit suicide, then its okay and you font deserve compassion?
puck lied about protection she asked for it and he said "dont worry" and didnt use it and also she was super drunk and feeling insecure and yes she chose to be kicked out of her house, and she chose being hit by a car and she chose to have whatever mental issued that caused her to smoke and dye her hair and breakdown in NY
Trying to argue that suicide is selfish will make it worse... they wouldn't even be in that situation if the "loved ones" showed love.. During that time their mind will tell them its getting them out the way and will help everyone else have a better life. Christian or not if you think thats selfish you're the selfish one.
tbh quinn was being selfish
She always was, even more than Rachel, even Rachel was more empathetic
Those writers had no idea how to write Quinn. She would go from the most mature insightful teen one episode to this another. Zero consistency and such wasted opportunity.
Fictional or not, ANYONE who calls suicide "selfish" clearly has no idea what it feels like to have a suicidal thought in the first place.
I hated Kurt so much right now. Quinn's pregnancy and dye job was more than a spur of the moment. Everything was taken away from her and like Karosfsky, her lies mounted to her depression. For him to invalidate her was disgusting.
But Quinn demeaning Karofsky's pain was kind of terrible too😕 idk, they were both right and wrong in different ways.
She did undermine Karofsky's pain but lets be frank, everyone deservedly hated him
But like he said, the world never stopped loving her. She was kicked out, but months later, after living with close friends (or Finn. I don't remember) she came home. Her hair dye never got her bullied, and both the baby and the hair dye were spur of the moment things. She didn't use protection, she got pregnant. She wanted to be an outcast, she got a hair dye that no one bullied her harshly for. Yes she was bullied for a while but she always had friends to turn to. Karofsky didn't. Everyone online hurt him, his calls were unanswered, and I honestly think they portrayed the whole thing amazingly because it shows perfectly how bad some people's lives can get, before committing suicide.
Your taking the side of someone who is blaming the victim of cyber bullying and calling them weak and saying they don't derserve sympathy and compassion when they try to kill themselves. Even Kurt who was bullied by him could understand how could she not. Kurt was right the world never stopped loving her she always had someone to turn too and she made the mistake of having sex and she's the baby for acting stupid and dying her hair and even bashing the only place that helped her when she was her lowest. Quinn's been through a lot but that doesn't mean she earns the right to tell someone their problems aren't "that bad" trust me it doesn't help anyone. She's extremely selfish not even caring about someone who tried to kill themselves. What kind of decent human being wouldn't try to understand what he was going through and try to understand maybe why, why was he at such a low point that he did think it was necessary to take his own life. Screw you Quinn Kurt was right.
The fuck? She cares. She feels bad but she feels bad for the father more
I’m trans and I’m a Christian. God loves you PERIOD. Not only if you go to church every Sunday or are straight or you wait to have sex until you’re married. And suicidal people already feel guilty enough without being called selfish, like if you say people are selfish do you honestly think they will come to you when they feel like killing themselves? God is always portrayed as being this abusive monster who punished you for the tiniest thing, when in reality he is the most loving and understanding being in the universe. I don’t care if you agree or not because you do not own salvation and you don’t get to dictate the rules of salvation. God does.
Quinn shouldn’t have said that. Suicide isn’t selfish. But Kurt was SO wrong. He, the boy who was supported and loved by his own family said to the girl who got kicked out of her own house that she was the one who had always been loved. Honestly Kurt you were the one who had always been loved and supported by everyone, not Quinn.
Quinn began to minimize other people's pain, there was no way she would wait for them to agree with such an idiotic, imbecile, bestial, stupid, ridiculous, immature, asshole and disgusting comment.
When you think about it Quinn is very bitter for a woman of God
I have two boys . an amazing husband
But I struggle with stress/anxiety/depression . I have suicidal thoughts . and me personally I always feel that it make my family's life easier without me in it. I'm seeking help ofcourse . but anyone that is unable to imagine how people can get to such dark places are the lucky ones.
yep. that’s the thing a lot of people who haven’t considered suicide don’t know-people feel like the people in their life would be better off without them