Coco's Message is Pretty Bad, Not Gonna Lie
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
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#pixar #coco #videoessay #animation #disney #1fishmob #moviepodreviews
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EDIT: I didn't realize greasy was a racial slur, so sorry about that. EDIT 2: I was told greasy is not a racial slur as long I don't say "greaser". So now that I know it's okay, I'm undoing the edit I made.
So, I think that, even though you're right about everything, and it's a very good movie. I think the Coco developers were trying to emphasize forgiveness, rather than how bad the actions were of the offenders.
@@Marinanor I don't think the movie is bad, I just think the message is questionable.
I mispoke, I actually love the movie but agree with you.@@fishmobsmovietv514
Greasy isn't a racial slur, it's Greaser, you're good, I live in Mexico and thats' not a slur here.
@@ElfpireEva Does that means I can undo the edit then?
Honestly a hispanic family not ever apologizing for what they did is painfully accurate lol
I never saw this as problematic until I saw this video lol. I'm just used to it lol.
same with filipino ones!
@@user-zr1fx1xq9m I summon thee, Filipino commenters!
Also East Asian parents can be like this at times.
What families DO apologize? Inuit families?
@@amazinggrapes3045 idunno white americans? That's what their movies showcase at least 🧍🏻♀️
Miguel wasn't just thinking about himself when he finally accepted returning to the Land of the Living. He was trying to save Hector from being forgotten by Coco.
Fair point, I forgot about that.
Even without the photo, Miguel was a smart kid; he'd have known he could jog his Mama Coco's memory with her father's song. That entire third act didn't need to happen at all, but lord forbid Imelda not be allowed to carry her hate boner for music til the very end.
@@PhoenixRising87 Why didn`t it need to happen? If they were in haracter then that would happen.
@@Jdudec367 I mean, Miguel would have realized he could jog his great-grandmother's memory with her father's song, so there would be no reason to go after de la Cruz to get the photo back, and he wouldn't have nearly murdered the poor boy and ended up losing the photo anyway.
@@PhoenixRising87 I mean....didn`t that only all happen after he went on his journey though? Like without that he wouldn`t have been able to discover what the song actually is.
Don't forget that Ralph was manipulated by King Candy who knew exactly how to use Ralph's kindness to his advantage. So personally I could never fully blame Ralph for what he did, and it's also why I consider King Candy to be one of my fave Disney villains.
Good point!
Yeah, he truly thought that was he was doing was good. Not for his sake, but for EVERYONE. And you can see how much he hated doing it AS HE WAS CRASHING THE CAR. He didn't wait to be proven wrong to realise how much he was hurting his friend.
Dang, I kinda wanna watch this movie again. I was mad at it for fixating on the Sugar Rush stuff, but maybe it aged better than I thought...
Yea king candy was a great villain Hans was good to when the plot twist story line was new
The first Wreck it Ralph is underrated, the sequel... is basically just the Emoji Movies with Disney nostalgia bait.
A part of me felt like the scene where Elena breaks Miguel's guitar, and then her seeing her grandson being crushed and just saying "aww, you'll feel better when you eat with your family" was supposed to depict a common traditional Hispanic household issue is like, because THAT IS how it really is. Elders/ your parents will disrespect you and NEVER will apologize to you for those actions, yet expects you to respect them and not have any hard feelings towards them. You're also not allowed to defend yourself when they disrespect you, otherwise YOU'RE the disrespectful one. I definitely agree this film should have shown a scene where the family at least felt bad for what they did to Miguel, and its kinda crazy coming from Disney that they didn't show a scene like that in the end or throughout the movie.
The problem is that as you've said, it's an ISSUE, it's a bad thing that hurts people, but they never criticize it or bring up how harmful it is within the film. Justifying it as "it's tradition" only allows the problem to keep existing without people stepping up to change it. I'm from latinamerica, family abuse in those countries (not just in Mexico) is a very real problem and many people are stepping up to try and change it. People commenting in this video are trying to disregard it as "it's tradition", and that is downright disrespectul to victims of abuse!!
@@100lovenanaI'm breaking the cycle... by having no kids and keeping minimal contact with family, hahahaha
Absolutely, and i'm glad other people have been pointing out the cultural aspect of this. I disagree however that they should shown the family feel bad. People make stories about their realities, much like you and others are saying they felt this growing up, and there was no "sorry" from your elders, at the end of the day, that is the reality of the creators of this movie, and one they chose put to film.
Yep, this is just how it works in México, they never apoligize, just wait till your sadness kinda shades and says "now give me a hug" and even if you dont want to, you do it because if you dare to repfuse, welp, theres not only the chancla but the cinturón and the cable de la plancha sooooooo...100% accurate
@@GarudaPSN This is the main point I think should be talked about. Coco feels so much more real than encanto in this sense imo. Encanto is a great movie, don't get me wrong, but when I saw the part where the abuela apologizes, while sweet, i found it a bit... unrealistic? I don't have a terrible grandmother or a terrible family overall, but culturally I know that the elders will not apologize to their juniors, just acknowledge the mistake. Plus, the message about family wasn´t solely surrounding the family on the living world, but with Hector, which is his newfound family member. Miguel wanted to save Hector and that's why family came first in that scene.
In my opinion, for the culture they are representing in the movie, they kinda showed the ideal yet realistic goal when standing up against your family: Make them acknowledge the mistake, make your goal achievable, now with the support of them; and produce a long term impact for the people that will come in the future. This is the reason I did cry when coco ended and not when I saw Encanto. It felt so real
The kart smashing scene is also because Ralph has every reason to believe that his friend would die if she were to continue racing
FINALLY SOMEONE BROUGHT IT UP!
As someone who grew up in a toxic, abusive household, I was MAD at the end of the movie. Like. Are we really going to pretend that A KID was wrong for being mad at his family for abusing him and preventing him to live his passion? From trying to run away from litteral abuse?
Are we going to NOT hold THE ADULTS responsible for their actions?
His family NEVER learn to not be abusive. They learn that their ancestor never betrayed his family, so they have no reason to hate music anymore. If another kid comes out with a passion they disapprove, they be abusive all over again.
Or will happen if something bad happens to Miguel? Will they just ban that as well?
That's just mexican families in a nutshell
Source: I'm Mexican
as a Mexican i can back this up.
@@elisehalflight I know. But that doesn't make it okay
I am mexican as well and the above comments are true.
My biggest gripe about Coco is why Coco (the character) didn't just... not follow Imelda's hatred for music. We already know Coco loves her father and his music.
In hindsight I should have mentioned that.
Thanks for pointing that out. Why would Elena hate music so much when her mom seemed to have no issue?
I’m pretty sure that implies Imelda played a big part in Elena’s upbringing. She most likely played a similar matriarchal role as the grandma in Encanto.
Even there the parents did nothing in defense of their right to raise their children however they wish.
@@DORAisD34D More importantly, why couldn't Elena be like a normal person and conclude that her grandmother was probably insane? Hell, if Imelda were my grandma, I'd assume her husband never came home because he couldn't deal with her crazy ass (or...maybe that he was actually buried in her garden...I watch too much true crime).
@@spectralight8412 What are you talking about? Both Julieta and Augustin stand up to Alma near the endof the second act.
My abusive father used to also destroy my stuff whenever he was pissed off. It's not something that's done out of misplaced love or worry for your child, it's a way for narcissistic parents to try to take control and also a physical threat to the child. It's honestly disgusting to frame the child as partially responsible in any way. I seriously think they just wanted to follow the story beats of a typical family story without thinking about the message they were sending. It's very lazy writing.
It may be because I just finished a video on Happy Sugar Life, a series which tackles subject matters like what your comment describes... But this comment honestly hit me in a way I can't describe.
ableism jumpscare
@@the-postal-dudehow so?
@@juliapauly3267 using a term associated with npd to basically say "bad abuser"
@@the-postal-dude NPD is the diagnosis which is based off Narcissism, but they are different. Narcissistic abuse most of the time describes a narcissistic person who is high on the Narcissism spectrum.
Recognising an abuser as narcissistic and the abuse as narcissistic abuse is not ableism.
Just because the term is associated with a neurodivergency does not automatically make it ableist.
Also this person commented a very personal anecdote in order to enlighten others and your response is pretty tasteless my dude.
All the people bringing up toxic familial cycles, weirdly, reminded me of a scene in "Everybody Loves Raymond" when Frank is talking to Ray and Robert and brings up that of course "my father hit me, and his father hit him. Its just how it was."
Then Ray points out "But you never hit us."
"I didn't want to be like him."
You know what movie I think did the _destroying-a-very-personal-and-cherished-item-in-a-moment-of-weakness-and-rage_ thing right?
*_Brave._*
She destroys Merida's bow, yes. And it is, in her mind, to PROTECT her. But once Merida runs off in tears, she _immediately_ regrets it. She desperately tries to get it out of the fireplace and _sobs_ as she asks herself "what have I _done?"_
And she reacts this way in spite of Merida having done something similar RIGHT before she burned the bow. Merida took a sword and ripped the tapestry of her family that her mother _cherished,_ but this is not seen as a despicable act.
It is shown for what it is: a *_CHILD_* acting out because of the pressure put onto her by her mother. In the heat of the moment, the queen reacted by doing something equal to what was done to her, but recognizes in the end that she needed to forgive Merida's outburst because she is still GROWING and LEARNING, and the Queen is the adult in this situation. It was a moment of weakness, an act done out of anger, _and it's made clear that she KNOWS that._
THANK YOU! I always talk about how well that scene was done and no one ever acknowledges it
@@maxwellkagel7198people tend to overlook this movie as a whole I think because of how they marketed it and it wasn’t what people expected but I found Brave to be really good and wish it was a little more appreciated 😔
@@issyd.c. It’s been a while since I watched it or heard anyone discuss it, but if I remember right a good chunk of why the movie is so overlooked is because of development hell, changes in writers and/or producers, and a lack of focus in the final product. (I personally remember the movie meandering a lot and seemingly getting off track a couple of times, but I could be remembering wrong.)
EXACTLY! Moments like this should be used to push a character into growing. Elena smashing the guitar was not that.
Another movie that did the “parent/parental figure breaks the child’s prized possession” thing better was The Little Mermaid. Triton almost IMMEDIATELY regrets what he did after destroying the artifacts in Ariel’s grotto.
As someone who grew up in an abusive and unsupportive house when it comes to my passions, I 100% agree with your take. Also, I love how you highlighted that his grandma destroying his guitar was an act of abuse that had both a physiological and emotional impact. My mother used to throw my drawings and sketchbooks into the trash because, according to her, "art is a waste of time, and I should do something useful with my intelligence, like become a doctor, instead of wasting it." So the fact they never address what hos grandma did and show a good and genuine reason to Miguel go back there , is just off putting on my opinion
While yes, this movie is good and fun, the message still rubs me in the wrong way.
My dad does the same tbh. He threw away so many of my things but what hurt the most was when he threw my harry potter book at a puddle because I was reading it instead of studying. I WAS 12 IN 6TH GRADE. Seeing things like this happen in movies just feels so wrong to me.
@@straww_berryyy im sorry to hear this, i hope you can get out of your house someday, and don't give up on your passion
And same like, they don't even show his grandma learning and regretting it
"Hmm, yes, the best way to encourage our kid to cultivate his intellgience is to suppress his attempts to use it and convince him and that his only purpose is to be exactly like every other intelligent person and never express himself."
- A dumbass
As someone who loves to draw, learning about the fact that your mom threw away your drawings and sketchbooks like garbage really made my blood boil. Hopefully when you get your own place, you can continue to follow your passion in drawing, because if drawing is something that makes you happy, then go for it. And your mom better not complain or ask why you would prefer to live your own life without her because she will have no one to blame but herself. A parent is about support and love, not to be emotionally abusive.
Throwing away your art is terrible, but she’s not wrong tho. Art won’t really get you anywhere in life unless you’re an absolutely amazing artist. Or you have a way to market your art to make a living. Which is hard nowadays because there’s a surplus of artists nowadays. And Ai isn’t making it better.
But if you do it as a hobby, and you get a sustainable job on the side. That’s great, and you could eventually make art your dream job in the future without sacrifice. My parents did the same thing, but they never threw away my work or “abused” me. More like questioned my choices, but respected them.
What hits me the worst in the guitar breaking scene is specifically at the moment when Elena gives Miguel a pitying smile and tries to come in for a hug bc I have been in a similar situation like that.
A parent genuinely hurting you and not understanding just how much they hurt you and instead assuming it's just another "wehh I didn't get what I wanted"-tantrum on your end so they try to hug it out like the Bigger Person that they are.
It's essentially a silent way of telling you "I forgive you" even tho you didn't do anything wrong, but I think it's worse bc the only way to express you don't agree with their sentiment is to directly physically reject the affection they're offering.
And if you've grown up in a safe enough environment then rejecting that type of physical affection usually won't come naturally to you.
(personal drama tmi warning)
My mom did this to me once and I pushed her away with sad/angry/repulsed "NO!" bc at that moment, the idea of taking that hug made my bones crawl bc it would have meant she would never understand how much her words had hurt me.
And the thing is, it still fucking hurt to do, to reject affection from my own mom bc I had never done nor felt a need to do that before.
And she looked hurt which it made me feel like shit but she put me in that position!
It's been years but that moment still fucks with me.
(and I hate that I don't actually remember what she said, just how much it hurt, bc this whole moment just ended up completely dominating the entire memory of that fight)
OMG THIS. That part was probably the most haunting part of the movie for me.
Honestly, if there's something I've learned, it that's sometimes the emotion a thing causes tends to leave a bigger impact than the thing itself. For your sake, I hope you and your mother were able to come to better terms, and everyone was able to come out a little stronger.
Happened to me too
My dad would do that so often...it's manipulative as all hell.
Thank you for sharing this. I'm glad I'm not alone with that feeling
The horrifying thing is it is likely this ban on music that prevented the family from realizing something was wrong when Hector didn't come home. Hearing Ernesto singing his songs including a bastardized version of the lulluby he sang to his daughter and only ever shared with her and seeing Ernesto onstage performing without Hector anywhere to be seen would have let them know something wasn't right.
Now that I think about it, it could be a better plot device if either Imelda or Coco mentioned the fact they knew Hector was murdered but never told anyone. It could make a lot of sense. When Imelda was Alive, she never said anything because what proof did she have? She was up against Mexico's most famous Singer of all time. After she died, it was the same thing as being alive. She had no proof, and she didn't want to make Hector feel worse because he, too, can't prove anything, and accusing his ex-best friend would have meant more shame. Imelda's anger at Hector would have been caused by his leaving the family in the first place. After all, she had to take care of a 3-year-old with little to no help.
Coco is in a similar situation but with the added problem of her being so young that she never fully remembered her dad. She only knew him from the old photograph but lost all the letters he sent cause she was only a small child when she got them. The only thing she didn't lose was his face. It could be hinted at the start of the movie that Coco puts her mothers old jewelry box on the Ofrenda because it was her favorite gift from Imelda. No one opened the box because the key to it had been lost for ages at that point. Then at the end of the movie Coco remembers that she used to keep the letters in the jewelry box. The only reason Coco forgot the letters were in there was that, by the time her family found out about Ernesto stealing her dad's music, the key had been lost. Then, When they finally opened the box, they found the Original sheet music, and the movie continued as it did. The rest of the world finds out there is a problem with the original story.
What could even be a better Twist would be Coco accidentally getting a letter from Hector in cursive explaining to Imelda his intentions on going home because Ernesto was getting abusive with how much he is demanding, but because Coco couldn't read cursive then, she just put the letter into the box without thinking to ask her mother. Then all of it can be either the family being too poor to do anything or Coco being too young to understand the gravity of the situation that caused all of this. It could later be explained that the living really think Ernesto did the murder because he was always known for having a short temper when things didn't go his way. Doesn't solve everything but it can lead to a better outcome. Sorry for rambling just my two cents.
@@Avatarfan10000and even if she tried to push back his accident could be blamed on her because she was the most likely suspect
@@Avatarfan10000Where is THIS movie!? This is amazingly heartbreaking!
I have to be honest, I don't think Imelda particularly cared if he died. In fact, I think that was one of the reasons she was so mad at him. Being a performer like that is still a somewhat dangerous profession, a very risky one. Him potentially dying and ending up in a ditch is likely one of the reasons she didn't want him to try snd pursue it in the first place.
If she knew about the song-and she likely did-it probably just hurt her even more than he seemingly turned a very personal song into a big money-making scheme.
@@rosesweetcharlotte Oh but she did care. As shown when she finds out the truth.
Coco reminds me of a very sad reality about Hispanic families that I've experienced growing up. There's always this one family member that has done questionable things, and you hear or tell those stories during any kind of gathering, these people are clearly affected by those wrong doings but actively ignore them and say "still love them though"
Toxicity is so engraved in Hispanic life it's hard to get rid of it, the only thing you could do is laugh about some of these experiences, because that old relative that once hurt you will never apologise, so you better understand why it's not happening and move on.
And if you're ever put in charge of a kid, teach them to apologise and be respectful.
As a Hispanic kid who though grew up away from the rest of my family (different country + opportunities whatnot) and only with my single mother, this was still an issue for me unfortunately. It's sad, honestly.
this is what i was thinking throughout the video and i don't think the uploader is even thinking about this nuance at all. really muddies the whole video. mans does not understand generational trauma
Hey, as a LatinAmerican (guatemalan), born, raised, living here I gotta say… that’s pretty much the experience of growing up around here; I had a tame and rather normal childhood compared to what other of my peers have… like, the bar is so low that the fact that my abusive father never hit my mother or my sister and I is considered a HUGE win
Like, I can talk to someone and we could be sharing the most messed up stuff that has happened in our families/lives and then we go… “oh, well! That’s life!” When it really shouldn’t
There are memes, comedy-based CZcamsrs and many other things just based off “something traumatic and cursed happened in my childhood! Oh well! What can you do ‘bout it!”, and I think it’s good to find humour in the gloomy things that go down around us but we should also address this problem as a society, mental-health-wise because isolated traumatic events along generational trauma going un-addressed is one of the leading causes for violence for my country apparently… so there’s that I suppose
But that’s life
@@danim.r2276 Uy otro chapín hola jajaja
But yeah... that's pretty much it, it's really unfortunate. And my mother doesn't seem like she will really change at this rate
@@buttbobaggins Generational trauma doesn't excuse continuing that generational trauma. Miguel's family sucks.
Funny thing about Finding Nemo, is that flashback scene with Nemo's mom was originally planned to be shown in the MIDDLE of the film.
This was changed because without that scene, all of Marlin's actions prior to Nemo getting taken made him seem like an unreasonable asshole, so no one watching it was really rooting for him.
A scene like that would've done WONDERS for Coco to make the family more sympathetic.
Or at least something similar to King Triton where there's a scene of them reflecting on how much they messed up
A toxic message that could easily be fixed by adding a few lines.
The dead-family members: "Know that we, your passed family, will always support your dreams... And that there will be a family one day that you can find that supports you in the living, even if it might not be your biological family. Remember that. Remember us."
And then a scene where Miguel's dad tries to get his own mother to apologize but Miguel hurries to play for the great grandma. After that there will be a scene where grandma finally gets to apologize, showing she is sorry for destroying Miguel's dreams before he played to Coco and that she is grateful that Miguel showed her the beauty of music. Boom. Toxic message gone.
That line you made is pretty great.
toxic 🎉🎉 UR GONE😎😎😎😎😎
I'm not smiling 🤨👓🤏
Great suggestion
That sounds good on paper, but the audience shouldn’t need to hear every single one of Miguel’s family’s moral positions to know that they aren’t complete monsters. I don’t think that dialogue is necessary because none of that is relevant to any other plot point that happens in the film; Miguel never develops any controversial passions other than music, and he never finds a found family. There’s no reason for any of that to come up.
Nice
this is how i feel about several recent films. turning red and encanto both needed a brief scene like this to actually resolve the toxic family plotlines and neither of them did anything to say "hey all of that was bad and we apologize" lmao
Push out the toxic people in your life. Even if they're family. Family is not supposed to make you feel unloved or unwanted. They are not supposed to make you feel like you're broken. Just because someone is related to you does NOT give them the right to treat you like crap. Blood doesn't mean crap if those people who are blood are HURTING you! You do NOT have an obligation to FORGIVE them either. What matters is that you feel safe. Your mental health and well being are more important. Remember that. Be safe.
Exactly, preach.
It almost reminds me of Vivian from the video game known as Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year. (SPOILERS DOWN BELOW).
What didn't sit right with me about the epilogue was Beldam suddenly becoming a good person just because the Shadow Queen was destroyed when resurrecting the Shadow Queen was Beldam's master plan from the very beginning, which apparently encourages Vivian to embrace her abusive family again. Unless they were implying that she was being influenced or mind-controlled in some fashion, they should've done a better job at explaining it. Otherwise, it just comes across as bizarre at best and mind-fumblingly dumb at worst because you have to remember that Beldam had still verbally abused and tormented Vivian, that you seriously trust she'll never do anything bad to Vivian again? If you ask me, having a family abuse victim join back with their gaslighters/abusers... doesn't feel like a good lesson to teach to children, especially children who are victims of abuse (maybe even by their own family members) like Vivian. So, instead, what I would like to do is have Goombella tell Mario that Vivian has been trying to socialize with more people now (her being a transgender female could also work well, too) and also have Vivian helping out others who feel like they're unwanted. As for Beldam and Marilyn, why not have a post-game side quest where you choose to help them seek redemption when they (mostly Beldam) feel like there's nothing left for them in the world now that they're plan has failed? Maybe it could even involve the Palace of Shadow again where they even talk about their own lives as well and you could help them see that there's more to a world than just following orders and/or taking it over. I know they probably don't deserve to be redeemed, and it's pretty cheesy, too, but, honestly, anything could've worked better than that part of the epilogue we got in the base game.
Thank you so much❤
Found family exists for a reason
Usually by "toxic" people mean being told no
The importance of memorizing family to keep their spirit 'alive' isnt a thing disney made up for the movie
Its a part of mexican culture; the belief is that the spirit lives on in the land of the dead as long as theyre remembered and loved by those in the land of the living who knew them (this includes friends)
However if people refuse to keep up the memory of someone who passed, then when the people who knew them also eventually pass it leaves nobody living to remember them, in turn essentially killing said forgotten person's spirit
I think that part of the video refers to how it was handled in the movie
They clearly modified and expanded some parts of these beliefs to make the setting work, op was critiquing plot holes they created in doing that
Is it tho'?
I'm Mexican and I never heard about such dynamics, as far as I'm concerned the ofrenda is more about appreciation and a helping hand as family journeys into the afterlife, rather than preservation.
I could be wrong tho', but the current tradition stems froma. Mixture of catholic and aztec beliefs, both having a very perpetual outlook on the afterlife.
@@elisehalflight I'll admit im not the best source for this info as im not mexican myself
Im just parroting what i know based on other depictions of dia de los muertos ive seen, but my point was mostly just that disney didnt create that idea
@@elisehalflight This movie was directly inspired by the Purépechas in Michoacán. It would make sense you don't have a lot of familiarity with it if you are not from there.
@@RetiredAccount1010 I'm Mexican from MExico City and I KNOW this since I was a little girl. I tried to watch this video with an open mind, but This person has NO IDEA what a Mexican family OR the dynamic of Mexican small towns.
This movie used to be my hyperfixation when I was like 12 but now looking back on it I really think stories should dial down on the “family is family no matter what” message because it just excuses all the trauma and conflict Miguel went through. It’s really giving the “because we love you” thing parents say all the damn time.
ah, unfortunately that's the Mexican way. We are expected to keep up with our elders and respect them and live with them no matter what, retirement homes are not as big here as they are in the US. A shame, really.
@@dani01949 Oh I know the sentiment exactly, it's not too different here in the Philippines where parent/older relative worship is the norm and shoved down your throat
it also hurts queer people pretty damn badly
@@user-zr1fx1xq9m”The Philippines is Asian Mexico”
@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 Indeed
@@dani01949 Yup. Child abuse is normalized in Latino communities, and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
completely agree I always found it weird elena never apologized especially after that brutal scene she wrecks his guitar? I also wish it focused more on Miguel’s actual family and not the dead ones. Like why do his parents do nothing? hows his relationship with his siblings?
Wait i didn't even know he HAD siblings 😭
@@L0tus_P0nd He hasn't. Those were his cousins. The only sibling he has was the baby that was shown at the end during the one year time skip.
@@angah82 Oh that makes sense, thanks!
Miguel didn't have siblings during most of the movie. He has a little sister at the very end.
Those are his cousins.
"bUt WhAt AbOuT oUr WhAcKy AfTeRlIfE wOrLd!?!?! The market wouldnt really like more grounded issues... We need an ADVENTURE and a way to flash our 3d graphics"
I remember I watched this movie when I was 7, and even then I thought it was weird that Miguel's family didn't apologize.
Because they’re Mexican. The older generations specifically don’t ever really apologize to us younger ones. It’s a common thing in our culture but obviously not for everyone else
@@KITSUNE3 same for russian families tbh. bringing a plate with fruits to a child's room = apology lol
@@spacedisaster9923 Когда мама отругала тебя за что-то, а потом зовет ужинать
@@spacedisaster9923YES literally their way of apologizing without saying it😂
@@KITSUNE3 I'm white with a single parent so that's probably why I didn't get it lol
The whole "music being banned because I'm sad" plotline worked much better in the Sound of Music. Firstly it's because of Georg von Trapp's wife who died at least 5 years ago rather than a man that only Coco remembers who lived 100 years ago. Then music is only let back into the household because Maria tells off Georg for being a neglectful and uncaring father to his children in the wake of their mothers death. The point is Georg wants his family to be stern and musicless because he's still grieving his dead wife, while Elena does it because... plot?
I guess you could argue it’s her honoring her grandmother’s wishes on the music ban as she was the one hurt by it, a “respecting elders” being taken too far so to speak, but yeah. Still agree.
Given how strong of a presence Imelda is, I sort of assumed that Elena just followed her grandma's wishes.
I feel like Encanto did this flaw much better than Coco, because not only we get to see Maribel’s struggles with her family because she doesn’t have any powers, but the family as well including Abuela. Causing Abuela to realize that because she value her family’s powers more than her own family, cause her family to break and after she realizes this and talks about her trauma, she realizes how wrong it was to put so much pressure on her family and apologize to how she treated them especially Mirabel
the part everyone forgets is that alma recognizes the error of her ways and actively seeks out mirabel to apologize to her.
Mirabel’s family is 3D and has depth, while Miguel’s family, especially his Abuela, seem 1D
@@lilac3266 I find it insulting because I know for damn certain that it's never that easy. It shouldn't have been this easy. I'm angry at Alma because she never got any comeuppance for the blatant abuse she put her descendants through. She even had the audacity to use her trauma as a crutch for her abusiveness!
@@nevaehhamilton3493 it’s a Disney movie ofc it’s never that easy. Regardless of how realistic or not it is the issue is still acknowledged and an apology is given
@@lilac3266 I don't want an apology. I want justice.
I didn’t know that the grandma was meant to be likeable I just thought they did really well at making me hate her
Encanto Abuela is more realistic than the Coco Abuela. Encanto Abuela’s actions are her ideologies that she believes will keep the family happy, which is strengthening their home (good intentions, bad execution) which contrasts her trauma where her home was lost. Vs Coco Abuela who isn’t really rooted in a traumatic moment. Like the video said, if she explained that music reminded her of her parents arguing, then that may work. But her aggressive ban of music with no reasonable ideas, not apologizing, and no growth just makes her seem conservative and unreasonable and less worthy of sympathy
Even though Coco Abuela doesn't have trauma like Encanto Abuela, she is still trying to protect her family. Since Elena believes that music was the reason Hector abandoned Coco, it makes sense that she sees music as the source of her mother's suffering.
We stan Alma Madrigal in this house!
@@olagartixa1719 Well, is she supposed to be really, really dumb? Are they all? That music was the problem and not Hector prioritizing his career over his family? I mean, they do hate Hector just as much, why extend this to music as a whole? If Miguel decided to abandon his family for other artistic reasons, like to become a painter or book author, would they then start blaming those fields too and ban reading books from family Riviera? I would find it hard to nurture a ban on music in a country like Mexico where music is generally cherished.
Maybe this whole story would have worked better if the Rivieras were the Rivertons from an Amish community.
@@shiroamakusa8075 People make choices that don't make rational sense all time. Especially when feelings and tradition are involved. People always want to blame something or someone or they project their own feelings on others assuming everyone must feel the same way. If banning music all these years has kept the family happy and together in past, from the Abuela's pov, that means it will also be good in the future. Of course this is a logical fallacy, but it's what she knew and part of how she was raised. To the Abuela, Miguell loving music (music represented sacrificing everything for the sake of fame) likely caused her to fear that Miguell would become estranged to the family aswell.
I understand the Abuela and still disagree with her actions. And not everybody is going to say/feel sorry immediatly. Some people are just more stubborn in their own views especially in the moment. Good characters have flaw that can create conflict. No conflict, no story.
I consider Alma Madrigal to be the villain of Encanto. She destroys the miracle granted to her family by forgetting the spirit in which it was given - she lets herself think in terms of worthy and unworthy, of shame and family honor, when the entire POINT of the miracle was providing a refuge for the lost and damned.
The moment she drove her son into the walls for being inconvenient, the house began to falter. When she all but disowned her granddaughter for not receiving a gift, she spat in the face of the miracle - I even wonder if it was a test of character which she failed miserably.
By the time the film begins, she's essentially mortaring the family into a new quasi-aristocratic dynasty, using a political marriage to consolidate power and treating the miracle's blessings as her own version of the divine right of kings.
Alma has fully forgotten what it was like to be an outcast, at the mercy of others. She's drunk on the power & privilege which the miracle provided, until even her children matter primarily as expressions of that rather than as _her children._
She rejects the nature of the miracle, and only the actions of everyone else keep her from banishing it forever through her own grasping selfishness.
I’m amazed nobody brought up how messed up the Riveras are until now.
I guess everyone is so used to being in toxic families that it doesn't matter in the end with Disney being more traditional.
Encanto acknowledges that the family is messed up. Coco never does
The Madrigals are even worse imo lol
@@nevaehhamilton3493encanto does not hide the fact that the madrigals are deeply flawed and messed up💀 this is not a hot take
@nevaehhamilton3493
At least in Encanto there were scenes of the family apologizing to each other and working together to build a better future. Coco just has the family eating together and not acknowledging all the crap that Elena put them through
I'm starting to realize how grateful I Am for having a chill Mexican dad
Happy for you! Toxic cycles are meant to be broken.
Same
As an American-Mexican, lol same
There's also another video essay called "Coco's Feel-Good Oppression" which touches another problem Coco has, mainly the system. I recommend it
One of my least favourite parts of this entire movie is that Imelda still has anger towards Hector even AFTER finding out that the reason he didn’t return was that he was LITERALLY MURDERED. I realise it was played somewhat for laughs because of her personality and that there’s a happy ending, but after everything Hector went through, basically suffering under circumstances completely out of his control and having been completely wronged in every way, it just seemed really cruel to me 😕
I think it was more realistic. She’s been angry at him for so long, that it takes her some time to warm up when she finds out the truth. It wasn’t cruel, she just needed time to adjust.
The thing is, though, I think that was one of the reasons she was mad in the first place. Keep in mind, being a performer in Mexico wasn't the safest profession anyways. To Imelda, it looked like Hector was risking his life for his music instead of living a happy, peaceful life with her and their daughter. She only changes her tune once she realizes that, yes, Hector really did just want to be with his family
my parents are like miguel's family, used to try all the time to steer me away from art once it was obvious that it wasn't "just a phase" and i was very serious about it. they just kept trying to get me to pick up engineering and actively being less and less supportive as time went on. while coco is a great movie that i really enjoyed on a first watch, that entire message and the lack of any accountability felt SO wrong and it honestly feels so discouraging to see it supported so wholeheartedly, especially when i look back at my own family and can just see that they would never have a magic eye opener disney moment and suddenly turn around and be nice
Were they wrong though?
Art don't pay sh*t. 😂
The trick is finding a niche, and engineering can be it's own type of art.
Maybe I'm biased because my family has been suppportive of me doing art... because it's *me* who wants to expand into other interests and skills and am not entirely throwing all my chips into one thing.
What did art do to your family?
What plagued me the most with the movie afterwards is that everybody is going to have second death at some point. The afterlife is not forever, just an extension of life.
Unless you are superfamous or some shit
I think that's the point, you HAVE to honor your family or youre consigning them to the void
Also the Book of Life ran so Coco could walk, Manolo also had a family who wanted him to follow their family tradition instead of music but when he goes to the afterlife his family ultimately see the value of his talents, specially when he seeks forgiveness from the Toro! And even better, they actually apologize then show up to help him against the bandits.
In my opinion the Book of Life gets the same message across with a similar base plot across way better than Coco did.
I love book of life soo much
Book of Life appreciation is incredibly based
Not to mention the one great grandpa who also wanted to be a musician, and he and manolo share a moment where they repeat the eaxct same thing they were told.
"The Book of Life ran so Coco could walk". 😂
As a shift from "X walked so Y could run", I prefer the way you phrased it.
I like that. TBoL is amazing.
Love that movie. Had the soundtrack on repeat as a kid.
This video made me realize that I want the version of Coco where Elena gets cursed (maybe she got the altar first and destroyed the guitar, and has to get an apology from the dead owner or something) and she’s the one that has to come to grips with her family trauma and realize, yeah, she’s going to end up forgotten once Miguel’s generation is in charge because he doesn’t want to honor someone like her. She then goes back to the living world and apologizes to everyone, ESPECIALLY Miguel, and becomes supportive of his passions and bonds with him.
I WANT THIS NOW 😭
This concept kind of reminds me of everything everywhere all at once
Isn't this the plot of Brave?
As much as this has been done, I wouldn't mind it being done again
good plot
Even if I do love Coco, I won't deny the message really should've been fixing. They should've learnt from finding Nemo or any movie that has family bonds. Heck! Even Encanto handled family better way more than Coco, that's saying alot!
always annoys me when people say the family didn’t learn anything in encanto and there was no apology. There was a whole scene of her apologizing??? I swear people just purposely have selective memory because it’s one of the most crucial scenes of the entire movie but they always overlook it
Encanto is pretty good, even with Brunos situation the most messed up, its agnowledged how medded up it is, and that the not explored more is due screen time, but its openly shown as horrible in consequences.
And abuela she is shown as complicated and explored, and while sue technically serves as antaonist, she is also an old complicared person that also is shown as getting wrong what the flame wanted, not superpowers and a false strong image, them dealing with their issues.
And its not downplaying the issues even bruno, its showing how terrible it is and showing how bad it is, not always explicit, or as dark as it could be, but its explored honest.
And the she is complicated and comes around to change in agnowledging it, is a pretty honest message. Lets be real old people are stubbern and can be , em, and conservative, that she did open up and apologized and cried and do effort and not ran away from adressing it, means a lot, and is very honest true to life.
Envcanto is pretty good exploring that complicated honest, yes. Even that they are not dealing perfect and abuela opens up even if in a dire situation, makes her actually human, and flawed but , a bit of earnest trying can get a lot from parebnts that did behave terrible, empathis on earnest and trying to be better.Which she does enough she changes her old stance really earnestly out of that.
Like abela really shows genuine opening up, progress and listening and changing, that goes a long way, better than any longwinded apology.
Encanto has the strong implication that Alma and everyone else will be working in the future to be better. (Yet another reason why it deserves a show... Wouldn't it be great to have episodes focusing on the dynamics between the different members, showing their growth, etc?) The main reason Encanto worked in its message is because the fact that the house collapsed allowed Alma to appreciate the members of her family not just because they have superpowers. Heck, the miracle exists because Alma was desperate for her and her newborn triplets to survive. She gets so wrapped up in making everyone's gifts useful, she forgets to appreciate that everyone in the family is alive and well. Heck, her two daughters found great spouses, she has six beautiful grandchildren, and that's the result of the miracle. She even gets her son back. (I hope that IF Encanto gets a show, them fixing their relationship is a big plot point)
Coco... They just demonize Hector for GOING MISSING and blame it on.. the music itself? The family just seems angry at Miguel for having that particular passion, and the only reason he is allowed to continue in the end is because Coco remembered enough to finally tell them the whole story. Miguel barely even gets the chance to play for Coco, because Helena is still hellbent on stopping him, even after he's been fucking missing after her tantrum. She never regrets her actions because they were wrong, but because she just never learned the truth. At least that's how I take it after this retrospective.
I didn't mean to write a wall, sorry about that.
@@cherrylimeali4393 Oh yeah if it gets a show that needs to be there , half of the show needs to be basically therapy ands alma making amands and bruno a center
@@marocat4749 I have an embarrassing amount of ideas for a show lol. One of them was an episode about Luisa and Julietta's relationship, because both of them spend their days working for others.
It's honestly refreshing to see a CZcamsr who actually acknowledges the inherent flaws within a pro-family message. Too many, I've seen people complain how Disney is too anti-conservative and anti-family values, and how traditional family values are all that people truly need, and that's all society should ever be. To respect authority figures, embrace the status quo, and don't ever fight against it.
Move out of the suburbs and you'll see how life really is... I wave to every police officer I pass on the road... Oh "To Respect Authority Figures"... let me guess... Democrat...? Yeah... That's not surprising... What you mean is do not respect the opposition to the party... But hey... 1984 was 40 years ago...
@@AnthonyGladbachwhat the hell are you talking about
@@KanamoriKamper I guess they are saying that our society works because of authority figures?? but honestly I read it twice and I'm still confused.
@AnthonyGladbach hey buddy can you describe the taste of the boot to me? like the rubber sole and the feet sweat inside it?
@@AnthonyGladbach why do you add those “…” it literally only makes your message harder to read
Honestly the fact they want us to sympathize with elena pisses me off so much. Like, the rest of the family ok sure i could at least sympathize with them because it could at least be excused as them being too scared to step in, but not elena, we should not have to sympathize with her. my own mom was just like that, and it was with almost everything i did that wasn't traditionally nice. and she even fucking threatened to, and even once did physically assault anyone who she even thought was being mean to me. Literally the breaking point for me was when she physically hurt my grandma because of something small. Thankfully she was arrested before it reached a point of murder but Me and my grandma got a fucking restraining order against her after that, Miguel's family should have done the same thing or at the very least get cps called for the shit elena did.
I was going to mention how Miguel could legally seek asylum from his family or get him and his siblings taken away for that. But I removed it because I felt it derailed the video... Plus I don't know if child asylum laws exist in Mexico.
Screw adults who are too scared to step in to stop child abuse
So what if they don't? Disney could set this story in any setting that had them. It's a cartoon musical based on myths of the afterlife, not a documentary about Mexican history! @@fishmobsmovietv514
@@paintbrush3554especially his own parents
LITERALLY WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! THE MOVIE NEVER TRIES TO MAKE YOU SYMPATHIZE WITH ELENA!
I think it’s kind of telling that they don’t say the show Miguel wanted to participate in had a monetary prize-It’s not as if he wanted to participate to hopefully get money to leave, he just wanted at least one chance to preform. It’s likely in my mind that Miguel would have gone back to his family afterward. (Not because I think he should, but because he is a child with no money who’s family didn’t allow him to socialize with anyone who interacts positively with music-Which is the majority of people. IN MEXICO TOO?)
Additionally Imelda’s blessing returns him to the land of the dead if he plays music. God forbid he turn 20, get away from his family, decide to experiment on a guitar again and fucking die for it. Hell, god forbid he get home and blow into a cola bottle again!
He teases a family member in a singsong voice and instantly evaporates.
Just once I want to see a movie about the child of an artist family wanting to become an accountant.
I'd watch it lmfaooooo
I kinda have a component of that in a story I'm making, theres a child of a family of musicians who wants to become a scientist.
Not a bad idea! A family who uses creativity and inspire people looks down at a child who uses logic and wants stability, it isn’t fair to the child that he’s forced to be something he doesn’t wanna be
Cringe
@@moritakaishida7963ragebait
This is why I have been saying for years that the Book of Life handles this story structure better-- Manolo's family doesn't hate music, his father just thinks bullfighting is a more noble career for him to pursue, because it's what their family is good at and is famous for. This is not totally unreasonable! And Manolo's father comes to understand the beauty of Manolo's passion and how music can transform people, which is actual character growth.
Mexican family being unreasonable and never apologizing? that's accurate, that's just how it is over here sometimes, does it suck? yeah, but it's an accurate depiction of how family can be over here, and WE often don't have the resources to push away bad family members, I'm mexican and I can confirm that things can be like that here.
Sorry to hear that.
Please know that you don't have to live with that.
Just because it’s normalized, it doesn’t make it right. Just remember you deserve better
@@PhoenixRising87the most fortunate (like me) are able to put some distance and leeave the care of the elders to the people who cannot get away, but yeah, that's our culture. We should normalize retirement homes but that's a scandal here.
My parents are like that well atlest my dad but he has chill just a little bit
I think that a good change of the guitar smashing scene is that guitar is not smashed in an anger fist by Elena, but rather after Elena tries to pull the guitar from Miguel he holds on to the guitar causing it to break it. At least that way Elena is more likeable and still be in the wrong by pulling hard on the guitar.
That! That I like.
It would also fit with the symbolism that Miguel’s passion for music is crushed by his and Elena’s conflicting world views.
Like in the Mitchells vs the Machines?
Coco puts up Hector's photo on the ofrenda every year and definitely remembers him (she only starts to forget near the end of the film) so why can't he cross the bridge on Dia de los Muertos? Just because his face is missing in the picture? Isn't the point that you're remembered by your family, not that the photo itself is a certain way? Before cameras existed, was no one able to cross over? Just throwing this out there because it bugs me
Didn`t she start forgetting from the very start actually? They could but for some it would be harder I imagine.
Well it's just for the plot, yk.
I'm assuming Coco didn't remember well and it's not like Hector's photo was actually shown. Also, pretty sure it was torn.
As for the camera thing, idk, maybe the land of the dead modernized over time as generations entered (so a generation that grew up with cars might introduce them when joining the dead ancestors.) And since this movie is loosely based on actual beliefs some hold, I guess just ask them about that??? I'm not really sure on that one.
@@headphonesaxolotl well, Coco for sure remembers Hector because people die 'for real' in the land of the dead once they're no longer remembered by anyone who's alive (remember the scene where Hector borrows the guitar?). This starts to happen to Hector near the end of the movie until Miguel sings to Coco and reminds her, so she's not forgetting Hector until that point.
Afaik when it comes to the real holiday an ofrenda is not a very specific thing, as in you might not even have any photos at all. Someone can be represented by a football if they loved football, or their favorite superhero or anything that honors their life somehow so imo even a torn, crumpled up photo should be good to go
1. She didn’t know Hector died, and she probably suffered from dementia by the time she should have believed it to be so
2. Even if she remembered him in her old age, the risk of her family destroying the last photo (memory) of him would be too great to put up. So no, she never got a chance to put it up.
Also for the crossing in the past, you might have been able to substitute with a memento + location + ritual, but that wasn’t done anymore.
I think since elena is the matriarch, the family was scared of calling her out. Sometimes families of color hold their elders in high regard at the cost of their well and their children. And honestly I think if it was ELENA who went on this journey to get Miguel back, it would have been a stronger message. Elena learns what happened to her ancestors and by finding out why miguel loves music, she apologizes and reconnects too.
Coco got lost in the adventure and plot of the movie.
The adventure aspect of Coco is my problem with several modern Pixar movies. Inside Out, Coco, Toy Story 4, and Soul all have great themes but their plots feel…formulaic? Inside Out does it the best since Joy and Sadness’s journey lead to self discovery and coincides with Riley’s increasing depression; but Coco sets up a familial conflict then just throws it all away to focus on finding Ernesto. It seems like Coco, Soul, and Toy Story just didn’t know how to PRESENT their strong themes. This is what Encanto got right; it doesn’t get distracted with some mischief and instead focused on its themes
It honestly happens a lot of the time in white families too. As someone from a toxic European family with a strong matriarchal line... where the younger you are, the less your opinion matters and the shittier your passion's seen...
'families of color' Ah yes, the famous 'of color' culture.
@@chronicmelancholic yeah, im a PoC and I mostly agree with what was said, but i also see that many times în white families too.
@@DORAisD34D "Toy Story 4 [has] great themes" Except it encourages forgiving and excusing the actions of monsters such as Gabby Gabby, as well as forgiving and excusing the actions of a person who berated you and treated you like trash (Bo Peep), and abandoning your child who needs you in order to go live happily ever after with someone else.
"family comes first" goes both ways and Miguel's family did not put his happiness first. To me family is about being there and supporting each other and It doesn't work if it's one sided. Actually i think the saying "family comes first" is only used in abusive households because people in healthy relationships already put each other first without question.
Another really bad message Disney movie is Raya(spoilers). It’s awful. It’s basically all about “you have to open and trust people” but everybody betrays raya, that’s how she lost her family and everything, yet the movie acts like raya was in the wrong for not randomly trusting strangers and the enemy itself?! Even the baby betrays her like come on. I wanted to love the movie but the message is infuriating
Not just that, but that message is just not good at all no matter how you present it.
You’re absolutely right: a huge part of what I dislike about this movie is how you never really get time to care about the dynamics Miguel may have had with the living members of his family. That’s why I always look forward to the scenes with Miguel and Héctor. Ever since my first time seeing this film, my favorite part of Coco is witnessing how beautifully Héctor gets along with Miguel. He’s goofy, he’s genuine, he’s empathetic, and he actually takes the time to teach Miguel everything he knows about being a musician. He doesn’t let his regrets from the past, or the way the other musicians treat him, stop him from encouraging Miguel to pursue his dream. In fact, he’s not afraid to point out where Miguel may be going wrong in pursuing music; instead, he actively tries redirecting him to pursue it with a nobler mindset. And when he realizes he’s gone too far in trying to get Miguel to his family… Héctor takes that step that the rest of the family doesn’t: he APOLOGIZES!!!
The adventure aspect of Coco is my problem with several modern Pixar movies. Inside Out, Coco, Toy Story 4, and Soul all have great themes but their plots feel…formulaic? Inside Out does it the best since Joy and Sadness’s journey lead to self discovery and coincides with Riley’s increasing depression; but Coco sets up a familial conflict then just throws it all away to focus on finding Ernesto. It seems like Coco, Soul, and Toy Story just didn’t know how to PRESENT their strong themes. This is what Encanto got right; it doesn’t get distracted with some mischief and instead focused on its themes
What's worse is that he's apologizing for something that wasn't even his fault to begin with. That sucks!
Exactly! How was he supposed to know how unsupportive the Riveras really were towards Miguel? For all Héctor knew, they just lost their kid!
Hector didn't do anything wrong though. And yet he still started simping over his wife again once he found her, even though she jumped the gun and assumed he ran off for the hills when he didn't come back home.
I think why I said he “went too far” was because he called Miguel’s dream a “stupid musical fantasy”, something one of Miguel’s family members told him before he ran away. In a way, it caused Miguel to believe he shared his family’s toxic mindset. It an issue based on something Héctor wasn’t fully aware of. But other than that, you’re right: Héctor never really did anything wrong.
Buck Cluck: "I might be the worst parent in the history of Disney animation."
Elena: "Hold my sandal."
For real. At least Buck owned up to his mistakes, apologized and tried to help his son. There are much worse cartoon parents out there.
"Chancla"
@@thewillofabeast9079 not to mention the downrigth bizarre situation he is in where a whole ass town is mocking and lucrating with a childs blunder, like what do you even do there
To be fair, earlier on Miguel didn't really treat the music-hating situation very seriously and just some funny quirk the rest of his family has.
He treats his family like a nuisance at worst. It's only when Elena starts smashing the guitar does he decide to run away for good.
Nevertheless, the living family could use a bit more screentime just so we can get an in-depth look at how they really feel. Maybe Elena has a more sympathetic backstory of not wanting to disappoint her strict grandmother which is why she became fanatical with her music ban?
Say what you will about Encanto. Yes, it's true that there is always the possibility for the cycle of toxicity in that family to be maintained, but at least that movie and the main character herself RECOGNIZED that the family has a cycle of toxicity and the person most responsible for the toxicity is called out for it.
As a Mexican myself, I xan confirm coco's message is awful. Mexican and latino families tend to normalize treating eachother like sh*t because "es tu familia 😊❤" and this movie does that too
Fr I thought this video was gonna be about how according to The Didney Corporation, even in their "Fun" fantasy version of the world, we Mexicans still have to deal with a different kind of la migra 💀
I remember seeing the teaser for Encanto thinking “this looks like a worse version of coco” only to be surprised that it’s actually better than coco in its family message. I relate to it a bit too since I feel like I’m the only one out of my siblings that has nothing going for me, and the part where Mirabel called out Abuela actually hurt me especially when she said “I’ll never be good enough for you”
I’ve tried to tell people that coco didn’t have a good family message but no one listened to me
0:24 then you must've not seen "Raya and the Last Dragon" yet
the scene with the guitar really hits me, for im an artist and i used to draw a lot of edgy demons when i was growing up, my mother being a catholic will burn and tear up all of my belongings whenever she saw them and i had noone to turn to.
i didnt get a happy ending
i just learned to hide my passion for art or any passion for that matter from my family
i still am
Sorry to hear that.
it turns worse when you learn about how normalized we have that abuse in México, as a kid I experienced many aggresions that were justified because "it was my family", the movie is beautiful but the message is pretty damaging, I also had many classmates who were neglected by their families, that violence is pretty normalized in mexican culture
I'm sorry to hear that.
Same for mine like the stuff we normalize I actually insane
Same with FIlipino culture, even the whole insane thing where they abuse you before forcing you to hug or kiss them, with enablers all around
I never got one thing... How is it possible that the family hates Coco's father... When Coco herself clearly says that she never forgot him to begin with. Like, I get that her mother imposed this whole music hating stick, but one would imagine that after her mother died, Coco would just... Ignore her nonesense...? Like... She is the living matriarc of the family... Why do her children hate her father when she does not...?
My best guess is because the plot needs to happen.
My guess is because Helena is holding the reins here, which just makes her look worse because she is disregarding her mother's true wishes.
Theory here, perhaps Coco grew up as music-hating as her mother, and in old age experienced memory decline which made her forget everything recent except her earliest memories, which would include loving music and her father.
@@cherrylimeali4393 I doubt that is it.
She didn`t completely forget him but her memory was starting to get hazy. Well she actually knew her father and knew he wasn`t that bad of a guy, did her kids take after their grandma then?
This "music is banned because of my feelings"-plot was already done in The Little Mermaid 3, and it was stupid there too.
Not really. The explanation for King Triton banning music was way more personal. It's because his best friend/wife loved to sing. So anything involving music would remind him of her death
''Why won't you sing?''
''CAUSE SINGING KILLED MY WIFE OK???!!11
...
now leave me alone''
''My husband got murdered by his singing bro''
Major Winchester did it best.
"Once, music had been my escape from this place. Now... It will always be a reminder."
I legit never thought coco *had* a message in the first place 💀
Most movie has messages.
@@Marcuskwok-hn5yi I know dawg im in college my memory of highschool English class is still fresh in my mind I was making a joke
Miguel already knew that family comes first. He grew to appreciate it more, and he grows in more ways, but he's mostly just the victim here.
Even Encanto showed you what everyone was thinking. Even the dads have considerable time in the movie. I don't think the entire family (-Miguel, Elena, and Abuela) in Coco says any more than 2 lines.
Oh to comment on the “how does the ofrenda work before photos”
So the tradition can vary from culture to culture, even in modern times. Some would use paintings of their loved ones if they had the ability to get one, some would use personal items of that person, and some people would use items that represent that person (like a guitar for someone who loved to play music, as an example). It doesn’t have to be a photograph. For Hector, they could’ve easily just put his guitar on the Ofrenda and that theoretically would’ve worked just fine for him to cross over and visit.
That would have bee amazing! Instead of a photo, they put his guitar, his legacy, up there every year, to show that his truly has become a part of the family again.
I think the reason why I found the movie so good was because I found it relatable. Most other movies I've seen had the kids painted as spoiled brats who have no sense of the real world and the adults as super caring and always morally correct. I guess I never realized the movie had any intention of sympathizing with his parents.
Okay, I don't know If you'll touch on this again, and If you won't I'll write it now so I don't forget it, but I really don't see how the movie tried to make Miguel in the wrong.
When he runs away, his family isn't really portrayed as wronged, they just search for him, that's logical.
His family serves as a source of urgency for Miguel to keep going because if they get him, his dreams will be over, and we as an audience especially know how unsatisfying and unfair it would be to send Miguel back without the family acknowledging how they were in the wrong, because we know that they are.
this.
FINALLY, someone who actually understands media in this comment section! I felt like I was going insane with all these weirdos here talking about how apparently Miguel was in the wrong for wanting to follow his dreams?
@@gazelle_diamond9768 No, it's the algorithm. There are lots of those weirdos gathered here but they're minority. Just a bunch of unhappy people hating their own families, traumatized because their parents apparently didn't always do whatever their kids wanted them to do. You know, the kind of people for whom any slightly imperfect parent is a horrible monster who deserves neither love nor forgiveness.
@@missAlice1990 No? I don't think that is at all what is happening here. From what I can tell, a lot of people here are actually from latin-american households, which DO work very similarly to what we see in Coco.
If anything, I don't think they're abusive. They're strict but not abusive emotionally or physically. 90% of this comment section feels like wannabe psychologists.
It can pretty much be boiled down to this fact; abuse is the action, not the intention.
Agreed.
Yeah.
As much as I adore this movie with all my heart... yeah, the ending was a bit iffy 😬
Yeah, looking back, it's got some weird elements in it. It's not like it completely ruins the movie or anything, but it is one of those "if someone were to remake this in 40 years, maybe we should change a few things to improve on the original."
Where in the movie do they justify the family? The guitar smashing scene is supposed to be cruel, their hatred of music is supposed to be unreasonable, and the ending happiness implies reconciliation and probably an apology of sorts. It seems you're just criticizing that characters are nuanced
As a mexican I think Miguel's family was made one-dimensional and stereotypical by design.
They wanted people who were familiar with these cliches about the mexican family to be like... Yeahhhh that person looks and acts like my uncle, my grandma, my mom or my cousin and so on.
To be fair, Miguel's dead relatives were more interesting
True. But I think that is also a hinderance, because the one side of family that NEEDS to change, is the least developed, while the other side, the one who can not change anything present, are the ones given some depth.
Worst part is Miguel's family is way less abusive than the average Latin American family.
I've been getting that sentiment a lot, unfortunately.
Yeah…they don’t have it as good as other places.
@@Marcuskwok-hn5yibut of course, we have Americans in the comments saying things like "you don't have to live like this" to people who literally have no other plausible option in life.
@@fishmobsmovietv514why you want the grandma to die ?that is a even worse message!!!! 19:51!
@@NONONONONONONONO-t6j It was a joke.
Here's your response:
I'm so confused how much you can get wrong about this film but by about every second you managed to contort the plot again and again. Coco's grandmother isn't mean to be sympathized with, she's an active force against Miguel's passion. The film is lighthearted. The reason why they hate music is there, obvious, and does not need to be elaborated on to further the plot whatsoever. The entire video you just read into mindless points and ramble like you're actually forming a cogent idea.
Your strongest focal point is that the message works against itself. What do you mean? The message is a nuance that works its way through the story, like a needle threading fabric. If you're unaware, at the end they reconcile in the most beauitful part of the movie which you touch on at the very start, how do you neglect that? Additionally, this ends up strengthening the message even further: Though already you were shown fantastic characters in the world of the dead that already bring together the general backdrop of why it's important to appreciate your family (both present and non-present) it feels like you somehow lose that touch just by imagining that Miguel's alive family are ravaging beasts, working as some anti-message. They are literally apart of the message, though they are the anti-heroes at first.
Letting "Elena get away with it" isn't some error the movie makes, it again progresses the plot, because very evidently an outnumbered, younger, and irrational Miguel is the correct protagonist to venture into the unknown, where he eventually meets his dead relatives, setting the message in motion. You have such a tunnel-minded view on the entire movie which makes your critique painfully pretentious, unobservant, and just painfully mean towards the film.
Your idea that the movie continues to work against itself by underdeveloping and failing to somehow make an immediate happy-ending for all parties involved is like ignoring the very necessary mountain Miguel and his misguided family need to climb. His entire lineage is misguided for a reason, you can't leverage these retrospective ideas over them like shaking keys pretending that they should've known better, should've been more scrutanized, should've been a stronger antagonistic force that Miguel could detach from, that's not what the film was set up to be at all. It's an honestly peaceful, realistic, and understandable cinematic that details the story of a boy who cannot share his passion with his family that has had misplaced anger for a dead relative that abandoned them to make fortune, never returning. Miguel can't surmount that with his own journey unsolved with seeking his lost relative, which sets up the film for the ending where he finally learns how to use his power to recover his family's broken history.
Your final lament is based upon his family's inexcused actions from not apologizing. I want you to reimagine the ending but redive into how the entire turn of events which undos the family's wrongful judgements might have actually been the metaphor for the apology. You don't need every little analogy and message to be gently placed in your ears, the flow of the movie is necessary for a reason.
They didn't need random segments of growth or character arc, that comes very importantly at the end. They were driven by hatred and family-obsession for over a generation. That doesn't revert magically through events off-screen during Miguel's climactic journey in the world of the dead. That is so stupid.
The movie wants you to focus on the family that Miguel could respect and grow with. Not the one that worked against him, until they too become apart of the message that demonstrates their true humanity. This has to be one of the worst movie critiques I ever had to watch the entire length through just to make a proper counter-argument.
what a well thought out critique. thank you for this take thug patrick.
Dude wants to see/read counterargument responses but just ended up liking comments on how it's the worst movie or how The Book of Life is better (most contrarian take I've ever heard). It feels like that he wants an echo chamber 💀
The car smashing scene in Wreck it Ralph hurt but because it was Ralph genuinely believing he was saving Vanellope from certain death.
It wasnt anger or mallous that drove him but the sheer want to protect his precious friend. Ralph had no reason to believe King Candy would lie to him about Vanellope possibly getting the game unplugged and her being killed since she couldnt escape the game.
His actions were ones of love and affection for her since he didnt want her to get hurt. Whereas Elena did it out of hate for music not to protect Miguel.
Yeah! We feel for both Ralph and Vanellope, makes one want to punch King Candy for manipulating Ralph.
someone wants to be a musician instead of the family job, goes to the underworld and turns into a skeleton while dealing with family issues? just watch the book of life guys come on
FOR REAL, DUDE
@@The_Twisted_AccursedI second this. It's the better movie overall
The adventure aspect of Coco is my problem with several modern Pixar movies. Inside Out, Coco, Toy Story 4, and Soul all have great themes but their plots feel…formulaic? Inside Out does it the best since Joy and Sadness’s journey lead to self discovery and coincides with Riley’s increasing depression; but Coco sets up a familial conflict then just throws it all away to focus on finding Ernesto. It seems like Coco, Soul, and Toy Story just didn’t know how to PRESENT their strong themes. This is what Encanto got right; it doesn’t get distracted with some mischief and instead focused on its themes
My least favorite part of the book of life is when he has to beat the maze, but unlike Coco, it doesn’t spend a huge chunk of the movie focusing on that
The Book of Life also has the bonus of being made by the same guy who made the show El Tigre.
I was paralyzed for a few minutes in astonishment when you addressed the biggest issue I have had with Coco that hardly anyone else talks about and I regret not giving your video a thumbs up a few seconds before 3:36 minutes into the video!
Even King Triton from The Little Mermaid had a backstory of his family’s music attracting unwanted attention from pirates that inadvertently lead to the passing of his wife (inadvertently because his wife risked getting crushed by the ship to recover a trinket and the Pirates couldn’t see her under their ship when it rammed into the rocks), hence why he banned music (for a while) and forbid anyone from meeting humans in that series AND Triton did learn his lesson the hard way for his overbearing behavior twice.
Also that very last part was priceless!
Thank you sir!👏
Agreed! I despise Elena so much. She never apologizes EVER. She was never harmed directly by Hector's absence, but was by FAR the most zealous in enforcing the music ban.
The both sides-ing of the issue is awful and Elena never shows ANY remorse, and neither does Imedla until it is nearly too late.
The "memory based" afterlife also rubs me the wrong way because what the heck?
Whenever she beat the man, I could only see her as a one dimensional person. With Encanto Abuela, you could at least see where she was coming from because she is still a 3D person, just with trauma that altered her perception of happiness. Like the video said, if Coco Abuela explained that music reminded her of her parents arguing, than that may have worked a little better
Exactly. How is she that salty over a grandfather she never met? Like, I had a grandfather who was a real piece of shit; my paternal grandfather walked out on my grandma when my dad and aunt were very young. Never gave them a dime, never anything. I never met the man, so there's no reason for me to have a grudge against him (even though what he did was inexcusable).
Probably her grandma/coco’s mom making her really zealous despite coco loving him, her being as crazy as she is probably would do that to her granddaughter
That's Mexican culture for you
"why do people still buy shoes from this cranky old woman" Nestle buys up water supplies and then sells bottled water back to the community, and millions of people still eat KitKats.
I completely disagree with your stance on the family members needing more exploration on why they hate music, because I feel as though it's evident its caused my generational trauma from the backstory of a husband/father leaving the family for music. Generational trauma is more than enough reason to explain why the family is the way it is since it happens in real life all the time, not that thats a good thing. I agree with your point that Elena is abusive, I don't think anyone would disagree, but that's necessary for Miguel to run away and advance the plot.
Also the criticism on the world building are rather knit picky, you're thinking too hard about the photos. It was clearly inspired by Day of the Dead, which is why they are using pictures of their loved ones to remember them. We don't need to know how its worked historically because we don't need to. Things not being explained aren't inherently plot holes, it's only a plot hole if its relevant to the story, and the story tells us "if people are forgotten, they vanish from the after life," and that's all we need to know for the plot.
While in the ending the family has not been great to Miguel, the story to me, is about solving generational trauma. Miguel wants to have his family and music, so he finds the root of the issue and fixes it to save his family and love for music. I think as a child especially, you want a family, so I don't think it's out of line for Miguel to still want to be with them outside of Elena who he solves his problems with. It's been a while since I've seen Coco so I cannot recall the ending very well, but I remember a similar criticism being given towards Everything Everywhere All At Once, where many people thought it was messed up that Evelyn never apologized to her daughter, but the thing is, she does in her own way. The change and acceptance of your loved one indicates an apology. At the end of both movies, the adult figures change their views for their loved ones and form a new mended relationship, and that aspect is what's clear. That, in my opinion, is what matters most. It's possible Elena apologized off screen, tho it would have been more impactful to be on screen, but again, I think the change and overcoming generational trauma shows that Miguel's efforts were worth the trouble and in the end he obtained what he wanted; family and music. Though it would have been more meaningful if this moral was ever challenged.
Coco isn't my favorite either, I much preferred Encanto, mainly because of the point you mentioned of the family members being much more fleshed out so its easier to get behind the characters. That may seem contradictory of my first criticism, but I mean it in a sense where Miguel has more reason to care about his family, not in the sense of why they're traumatized.
The only point I thought was interesting was your mention Miguel's death reaffirming his decision to help his family. I think it's fair to ask why he cares so much about his living family, and it would have been more impactful for him to perhaps question why he's going this far to help his family that has never supported his love for music. This was your best point, but it only lasts for like 2 minutes. I think it would be more interesting to hear more on that aspect and what they should have done instead.
That's about all I have to say. Good luck with the next video.
She’s like all those people that destroy video games because they think they’re evil
Marlin: Overbearing on Nemo out of trauma from losing almost his entire family and fear of losing the last person he has left
Elena: BECAUSE SHE TOLD ME TOOOOOOOOOOOO
Your ending where Death strikes down Elena should be included as a post credit scene in future re-releases of Coco.
From what I remember, the book version of the movie went a little deeper into the families side, but it's only like a small chapter.
While king Triton also doesn't apologise, at least Ariel gets away from him permanently.
He did kind of apologize in the musical.
King Triton traded his life and crown to Ursula for Ariel’s freedom. Also gave her new legs no questions asked afterwards.
I think the phrase, “actions speak louder than words” applies here.
I used to hate him when I was a kid, but I dislike him much less now. At least he shows remorse for what he did and let Ariel have what she wants without conditions at the end.
Atleast they got the emotional abuse in Mexican families part accurate 😭💔
Unfortunately...
That's gotta be the most terrifying cartoon review rantsona I've seen so far.
I made it myself. I'm hoping I get some better ones made soon.
That looked actually scary to you? It's just a green shark/colorful fish in a hat. It's not even drawn hyper realistically.
Suggesting reporting someone missing in Mexico would have them be found dead or alive is a bigger joke than the Rivera's comic-book villain level of disdain for music
I'm guessing there's something I'm missing?
@@fishmobsmovietv514 You may be. Unfortunately, the budget for finding missing people isn't too generous, even in part of this country (the USA), much less those much poorer countries. Although, I would say a neighborhood alert would at least get a few civilians interested.
@@celticandpenobscot8658 It's more complex than just a budget; I don't think it's my place to explain it given the delicacy of the subject. Disappearances in Mexico are a topic... I believe there are no words to explain it without being censored by CZcams... but in many cases, it ends up affecting the people who are searching for their relatives, beyond the pain of losing a family member.
Not to mention that the movie events were meant to have happened in the distant past, when resources and information for finding people were even slower and scarcer
@@jellyfish0311 Actually, the characters wear modern clothes, so that doesn't necessarily hold true. In fact, the border agents even have software.
I know this is a video about CoCo, BUT THANK YOU for speaking on Buck in Chicken Little in a better manner than most people will take the time to actually reevaluate his character and look at why he is most likely the way he is on a deeper level. I think people remember the worst about buck from when they were younger and refuse to watch it again as an adult under a logical lens because they deeply misunderstood him.
He isn't a good dad (for reasons that are definitely there!) but he tried to make up for that in the last act, and if there was a sequel I whole heartedly believe that movie would fix his reputation.
Coco’s message on family trauma resolution isn’t bad, it’s just real-life accurate. Fact of the matter is, most people would forgive their emotionally abusive parents readily over even an IMPLIED apology through actions and not words. Miguel seeing his family accept music, and his interest in it, was all he ever wanted. He didn’t need a verbal apology from Elena. Is that still bad? Yes, as it in many ways excuses bad behavior on the parents’ part, but if you’ve ever come from such a family, you’d know how hard it is to just run away and cut them off as the alternative. We take the wins we can get.
Okay, so your first sentence is that it's realistic and not bad. Then later you say it's bad, even though it's realistic. Which is it? And I'm pretty sure Pixar didn't intend the message to be something bad but accept it because abusive family members pretty much never accept that they are wrong.
The Book of Life is a much better Day Of The Dead movie than Coco, but, for some reason, everyone was dismissing The Book of Life despite it coming out THREE YEARS BEFORE Coco. Damn movie was beautiful and not nearly enough people talk about it
Nobody dismissed the movie. In fact, it was popular online, and people were pissed that it wasn't nominated at the Oscars (in which it makes sense, because it should've replaced The Boxtrolls for the nomination). I'm sure the movie did alright at the box office, and when Coco was announced, people called it a "ripoff" of TBOL.
just saying. Not that I hate the movie, but people gassed it up as if it were some underground indie movie that's flawless.
Imelda Riveria: I smacked the phony thief cad who murdered the love of my life with my shoe.
Carmen Sanchez: Hold my Enchiladas! (Shows her slapping the lord of the land of the forgotten with her BARE HANDS after they find out about the wager)
Ngl I knew my mom was like some of the worst Disney/Pixar parents when I saw her cheering for/sympathizing with characters like Elena/Imelda/Mother Gothel. I also remember her specifically cheering on Merida's mother when she threw Merida's bow in the fire and when Ming Lee from Turning Red basically destroyed parts of their city (and a whole stadium) from her red pands form bc she was mad at Meilin. In pretty much every case, my mother would say "Well that wouldn't have happened if their children just listened". So she's a firm believer in that children should blindly follow everything their parents/ancestors say. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying children should be able to do whatever they want whenever they want to, but there are parents and families out there that take it way too far and somewhat see children as these sort of beings that they're supposed to be able to control and that these little people aren't allowed to question, aren't allowed to speak for themselves. If they dare to, they are disrespectful brats. The problem is that some family/parents somewhat vicariously live through the children and as such, want those children to live exactly as they wanted to and hold the same opinions/values that they do.
It does kind of suck that we don't see a reason why there have been so many generations in Coco going along with Imelda's ban on music. But what I can equate it to is something similar. As a child, you don't *want* to go against your family because children are always taught, listen to your parents and elders. That's before mentioning some of these cultures place enormous importance in listening to and respecting your elders/ancestors, even if it's something you don't agree with or even if your life is miserable because of it. If you go against your elders, you're going against your whole family because the elders tend to "run" the family. I can only imagine something like this is what is happening in Coco. Some of these family members likely have no reason to dislike music, but they were grown up on the hate and resentment Imelda had for Hector, being told the story from her perspective and being taught that basically, if you enjoy music or want to be a musician, you're basically going to end up abandoning your family for your own selfish interests. And let's not forget, even in the land of the dead when Imelda found out the truth (that Hector was murdered, that he didn't actually abandon his family), she still treats Hector coldly and says she's still angry at him for leaving in the first place. That shows you just how Imelda's hatred and resentment is still so deep and built up that she has become unreasonable. So to me, it's not much of a wonder how the family is still passing on that hate and resentment, add on that many will not dare to speak out against it so they are not disrespecting the elders and ancestors.
It tells you a lot when the family is suddenly enjoying music and loving it again just because Coco talked about her fond memories of it, being the eldest of the family and basically giving the OK on liking music. This message is very flawed in this way, and you're right, it's trying to make us feel sympathy for both Miguel AND his family. It's trying to shift our focus from how unreasonable the family is to sympathizing with Imelda's trauma and using that as an excuse to forget whatever the family did to Miguel. I do like this film and I do like that things turned out alright, but there are indeed a lot of problematic messages under the surface of it all.
Bruh Ming Lee could have literally killed people, and it'd take fucking weeks for all those structures to be repaired, and it was all because her daughter went to see an innocent boyband concert. If you're going to punish your kid for something like that, you might as well just stay up so you can be sitting at the kitchen table with a disappointed look on your face when they come back home.
Also FUCK Imelda.
Well it`s because it is what they are taught by their family....that is simply why the ban lasted for so long.
You are right about why the family is likely like that.
Yeah because Miguel showed them how music is good. The message honestly isn`t that bad tbh. It isn`t using it as a perfect excuse though but to at least explain what led to that. Is there really problematic messages? I dunno....
I think I can come up with a few fixes to make the ending of this movie better!
First things first, what you said in the video: touch on Elena’s trauma! Constantly hearing her mother fight with her grandmother over music, the hole Héctor left in their lives, and how much trauma it left in the family.
Second: Elena doesn’t destroy Miguel’s guitar, and she isn’t as invasive about the music in the town. She allows the town to play, but her family is forbidden from joining. The inciting incident is instead Elena locking Miguel’s guitar in a chest and banning him from playing in an upcoming music festival
Three: Miguel still runs away, but again, we touch more on Imelda’s trauma. She doesn’t try to ban miguel from playing forever, but she does forbid him from idolizing her husband, who Miguel still thinks is the famous guy (I forgot his name, funnily enough). She forbids him from having any ties to him, such as the guitar that once belonged to him. Miguel can still access his own guitar if he can convince Elena, but that family heirloom will never be his.
Four: the famous guy still killed Héctor, but he forged a letter in his name to his family. The letter said that he wouldn’t come home, and that he’s going to pursue his dreams. That way the family “know” what happened to him and won’t come looking.
Five: Miguel won’t vanish forever if he stays in the land of the dead. He will, however, be unable to return home. Being a living person in the land of the dead means he won’t face the same fate as his dead family members
Six: Elena apologizes! So does Imelda! They realize that someone’s past mistakes do not belong to the future generations, and on top of that, death is just part of life. Even when Imelda learns the truth, she would have to learn that it wasn’t music that hurt her family. It was human greed, and there’s nothing you can do to predict that. Its better to let Miguel spread his own wings and pursue his passions, rather than living a miserable life.
I don’t know how good any of this is, since I’m not a screenwriter, but I think it’s a good start. Honestly keep everything else! The movie is gorgeous and the acting is incredible. The ending is just lackluster in comparison
My honest opinion: This makes the movie realistic. I’m not saying it’s a good or bad thing, but the “hollowness” of the “happy ending” you mentioned really shows the depressing reality of how one buries bad things and goes on with their life, making themselves believe all is okay. It makes it way less fairytale-like in a way.
(Ps I’ve never seen the movie, I’m only basing this off of the video.)
Like I said, it's the main reason why Pixar movies (at least, back then) are well-liked. It's not because it's "deep" (they're not deep actually), but because of how sincere it is. Not everything can be resolved.
I thought why they didn't show why Elena thinks she's protecting Coco by hating music is because she was wrong about it, it was an assumption not based in reality of how Coco feels about it
The movie doesn't say that Miguel will suffer a fate worse then death because he didn't appreciate his abusive family.
It's forshadowing Hectors eventual "death", which ultimately leads to higher stakes for Miguel to save him.
This also doesn't happen out of the blue mind you, all the characters went through an arc of understanding each other better.
This is where you could criticise the movie because the understanding happened more between Miguel and Hector than Miguel and Imelda or Elena, but appreciating your abusive family isn't the message.
Abuse is abuse. And he still went back to his emotional abusing family who never even APOLOGIZED or showed any remorse or promises to change after the abuse.
@@Mitzthatonekid that's straight up not true though.
I want to make things clear here, I am not saying that the family's behaviour wasn't awful, nor do I want to say that the movie doesn't have it's flaws when it comes to writing the family in particular, because it definetly does.
What isn't shown in the video is Miguel's father not wanting Elena to smash the guitar, meaning that he at the very least thought that she's going to far with this.
Now you could argue that this isn't enough to redeem him, and you would be right, but you can't say that they _never_ showed _any_ remorse.
Also, and again this wasn't handled in the best way, but the movie clearly ends after a timeskip. The way the characters treat each other indicates that they did apologize to Miguel, and that they stopped being abusive, since the extend of their abuse was, to my knowledge, how they kept everyone from playing music, and the movie has basically every member of the family playing music.
Was this written the best way? No. You can still argue they never showed any of the family apologizing and you would still be right, but what they definetly showed was the family becoming better people in the end, even if they didn't earn it like Imelda.
@@Ammiteur9 excusing an abusive family. Classy.
@@Mitzthatonekid you didn't even bother to read any of what I said, did you... typical
@@Ammiteur9 sorry I do not want to read abuser apologetics. Because you think abusive family should be forgiven you write a whole novel on how abusers should be forgiven.
why is there a big transparent fish on my screen is this normal
It's a watermark to prevent copyright strikes.
As a flaw in a film, your points are valid. In real human terms, however, people (decent ones at least) may overlook an individual’s quirks without knowing the those quirks exist. People need not be perfect, or perfectly understood, to be tolerated, accepted or even loved.
True. I just wanted to share my honest thoughts.
I wish we have more discussions like this because YOU know gosh darn well that people would go "LOL. BOOK OF LIFE BETTER" without elaborating. I like TBOL, but my gosh, the rabid fans who like it because they wanna look "unique" is making me liking it less. Congrats, people can like both!
That's why i like Encanto more. Coco is a good film, but it baffles me how many people just don't see the problems in it.
To be fair “family first” isn’t the main message of the movie.
“Family first” was the lesson the family both dead and alive were trying to impart onto Miguel.
Miguel never got an apology because that wasn’t his priority by the end of the movie.
Imelda gave him her blessing to return home with “no conditions” because both his and Hector’s lives were at stake. Imelda wasn’t sure Hector could be saved but there was still a chance for Miguel.
When Miguel hurries home he ignores everyone to get to Coco to help her remember her dad, the first person in his family he was shown to build a connection with.
The main message of the movie then morphs into “put your family first without conditions.” That’s the lesson Imelda learned and that’s the lesson Miguel brought home with him to teach the rest of his family.
The matriarchs throughout the movie were always saying, “you want to be part of this family you follow our rules without question.” It wasn’t fair to anyone and the movie understood this.
The end of the movie showed being part of a family should mean being mutually respectful and loving or you’ll miss out on what’s important.
The lives they live, the lessons they have to teach, and the stories they have to share, because you never know when all that can be taken away, whether via memory loss, lack of contact, or death.
Both Miguel and Elena wanted to bring their family together by different means. Elena and the rest of the family, dead and alive learn the old ways aren’t always the best ways, and Miguel learns there is truth to the old ways that he can reintroduce to the family in a new way.
What a bad take... your problem with the grandma is that she... follows through on the lie she believes in the story? Are you serious? Like... the alternative is... no story? Or even a potential lesser story? For what??? Focus more on the family??? FOR WHAT??? We got EVERYTHING we already needed. wtttf?
This entire video's premise is based in the idea that the grandma is supposed to learn something like she's the main character.... and she's not. She's not the focus. The family ISN'T the focus. Your just confused because you think you made a point by pointing out that the grandma is "abusive." Like... it's a cartoon first of all... and second of all, she's SUPPOSED to drive Miguel away. That's her LITERAL point in the story.
You're mad at a character in the story because "the story also acts like she has a point." Ummmm she does have a point. She's HER grandmother. That's her entire point in the story. It's about generational issues and you missed the meat and potatoes to focus on the forks bro. Wtf
EDIT: You should've focus ENTIRELY on the death aspect. You ACTUALLY had a point there. That's a strong point. This video is so unfocused and its 12 minutes of slop until you get to a point. Good point. Stick to your guns. Everything is worthless until about the 14 minute mark.
Or here's a point you didn't make... if the dude is famous, why does the family act like this famous person is suddenly the guy who "ran out" on them? Wouldn't they see him or his photo? He's famous... ther'e's a GIANT statue of him right in the center of the town.
@Dinomario2007 LMAO are u Rex Raptor
All the comments saying this kind of abuse is normal in Hispanic families is so depressing
To be fair I haven't watched Coco in a while so I forgot what Hector and Miguel we're talking about before realizing that they're a family. But the reason Miguel wants to help Hector now is because of the Bond that they developed through their journey together, and because it was made very clear that Hector will stop existing, Miguel would die, yes, but like you said, what awaits Hector is a fate worse then death.
But I think it's fair to criticise that Miguel and the rest of his family didn't really develop their understanding of each other as much as Hector and Miguel did, and therefore Miguel now saying that Family comes first seems a bit off because in reality he just means Hector.
To defend Imelda a teeny bit on that “why didn’t she put up a missing poster” we have to acknowledge central and South America are VERY different places. I will prefix this by saying I am not Mexican, I am Salvadoran. From my own experiences and learning second hand from others, you cannot put up a missing poster and report it to the police. Firstly, a lot of places simply don’t have that infer structure in place. They’re third world countries, they don’t have the resources to plan full investigations like that, ESPECIALLY a hundred years ago when Hector went missing. That’s not even touching on the fact that a lot of government facilities are incredibly corrupt. Secondly, it is common and the norm for men to up and abandon their family. I have family back in my home country who had the fathers of their children abandon them. It’s not just one person either, it’s several aunts and cousins. Hell, even in my immediate family it has happened. I see a lot of people who make points about Coco but they don’t have the full context because they don’t fully understand the culture so I just wanted to clear that up
Fair point
Plenty of people have been commenting that. I was simply looking at it as a movie, but I guess the culture move portrays was always going to be a point of contention one way or another, wasn't it?
@@fishmobsmovietv514 I never saw it that way until I saw people reviewing it who weren’t Hispanic and it hit me just HOW much Mexican culture they did put into the movie. On one hand it’s great because it’s nice to see such a big studio care so much but at the same time you have people not fully understanding because they aren’t in the know
@@katherine_queen5294 To be honest with you, Americans don't try and don't want to understand other cultures. They overcompensate for their closed-mindedness by insisting on bringing diversity to every movie or show but it's only superficial, just for looks. The moment Americans see that another culture might have a different perspective, different mentality or different values, they put themselves on this high moral pedestal and scream how terrible those people are.
Thank you, as a Paraguayan I think the same. The dad just left? The police don't do nothing? That is just latin america.
Also, break and precious things of a child because youre family said "Pokemon/Yu Go On/Hello Kitty/etc. is bad/the devil" is also really normal
12:20 also. she SURELY new Ernesto became famous. you know, her husbands best friend?! and she never went out to find and ask him what happened?! I know ernesto killed hector, but if she asked, she might have learned "oh, he wanted to return, but he ended up getting severely sick and... he sadly passed away."