I guess in retrospect its a bit weird she describes matt smith more than the one she spent 24 years with, but then again she's probably fond of the first face she saw
"I hate you!" "No you don't." One of the most classic dialogue between this couple. Always gets me. Sometimes in a bitter way, sometimes in a sweet way.
In an interview with Kingston, they had to keep re-shooting because both of them kept tearing up doing this scene, it was that powerful and romantic all at once.
Lol they were probably laughing because they were speaking in a code, a language, that no one knew existed in that moment. Because in the year 2024 the trap was set and the the pin pulled lol
The thing abt Alex's character... it had chemistry with all 3 doctors...it was believable that River & Doctor were in love regardless of what face the Doctor wore. She's amazing.
I really feel sorry for anyone who didnt stick with doctor who to this point. The river song arc was incredible, and Rivers relief when he says '24 years' was felt by everyone. I still tear up.
I remember my first reaction having heard 24 years was a quick laugh and was so happy for her knowing what was to come. This was such a well written character
They always met backwards. She knew him more and he knew her less. On and on for hundreds of years. Except this moment. This is, for the two of them, the second to last time they see each other. And it’s because she’s about to die. This is the best written relationship story in all tv history and you can’t change my mind.
@@Julia_Berrrlin I'm not a big who watcher but from what i understand, after this, her next encounters are with his previous selves in earlier episodes, and her first ever show encounter with the doctor is with the 10th, and she sacrifices herself for him. Sooo yeah after this, she's basically walking around with the death flag. It's a very interesting strange relationship, cos she meets him backwards, the more she knows him the less he knows her and the first time they meet is the day she dies.
@@RoballTV The Next encounter is with the 10th doctor (back to the beginning of her loop) and she dies at the Second Library of Alexandria ("Silence in the Library/"Forest of the Dead.") She meets him with a face she doesn't know and he has never met her.
Wait no, that's wrong. She's going to see him twice more and he won't ever see her again. She sees Ten at the Library and then Eleven at his grave with Clara.
The moment where she says that he always comes up with a loophole to save the day last minute, and he replies, 'No, I don't." And you realize, he's remembering watching helplessly as she sacrificed herself in the library.
But I mean, he did... Kind of find a loophole there. He uploaded her consciousness into the library. Did that not count? Or... I dunno that episode always confused me just a smidge
@@incognitogirl6201 she means that he can stop her leaving Darillium (and by extension, stop her going to the library and dying, unbeknownst to her) but he knows she has to leave Darillium and go there bc he's seen it himself Honestly timelines are confusing as fuck, but I like how Moffat really played with the concept of time in Doctor Who, time travel is more than just how they get somewhere
@@matthewlacey4198 The Doctor knows that this is the last time he will ever see River - its time for her to go to the Library when the night is over. Its actually brilliant what Moffat has done with River's storyline - having a complete character in the first episode we see her in, and in her future episodes, we get to see the gradual deconstruction, and rebuilding of her character up to Husbands
He knows that if he did anything to prevent her going to the library he would have never met her which would have led to him sacrificing himself in the library and possibly never meeting Amy and river never being born at all
Oh, I still love this ending, where River gets her happily ever after with a Doctor who can show her that he loves her. And I love that we don't get to see one moment of their years together. That time is theirs alone.
Give Chibnall time and that mystery will be spoiled. He's now giving answers no one wanted to know, such as where did the time lords or the Doctor come from. I hope I'm wrong.
I still dislike when the Doctor regenerates the ring falls off her finger and down onto the floor of the tardis before it goes spinning around meaning the ring is likely lost for good. So I guess marriages in Galifrey are for one regeneration, seems a quick way out of a bad marriage.
I agree. I feel like Ten cared about her [not dying], Eleven liked having her around, and Twelve interacted with River like old married couples do, the ones who possess true love. I’m glad that he was able to show her the love that River, before meeting Twelve, held for the Doctor but never got. Twelve and River have true connection.
@@sockpuppetmogwai856 Oh actually! I know this hasn't been responded to in a while, but that little detail was actually about Capaldi. He refused to take his wedding ring off to play the role, so the entire series his Doctor wore it because he couldn't bare to part with something that connected him to his wife. At his regeneration, the ring fell as symbolizing the end of his era (and they couldn't exactly have Thirteen walk around wearing Capaldi's wedding ring). Technically they connected a second band to his but, yeah, it came from his wedding ring. I've found it to be a really sweet detail, and it's more connected to outside references instead of canon details
I've said this a million times, but Peter can do more with a look than many actors can do with a page of dialogue. When River finally asks "So, how long is a night on Darillium?", you can quite literally SEE the twinkle in his eye, and almost hear him thinking "Now THAT, my love, is the right question". But instead of actually giving him that dialogue, Moffat lets Peter show it to the audience. Incredible.
He did that thing she says he always does. Just when she’d given up hope (“if tonight is all we have left…”), he did that smug little smile he always does and found some loophole
Truly! Peter is so amazing! It was obvious with Matt's doctor that he cared for River but with Peter you can see how much he really loves her. This is the doctor and River at their best ♥️
As Matt was an incarnation of the doctor, he didn't just care for her he loved her, as did all the regenerated doctors as they are the same person through time.
This is why we have the old maxim "show, don't tell." It is so much more effective. But too few writers these days understand that and feel the need to explain everything in excessive detail because they think the audience can't figure it out.
Calpaldi is a very under-appreciated Doctor. As who fans get older they should rewatch the series. Then they will appreciate the beauty of this and other scenes.
I'm 24 and Capaldi is my fav. Letting both Tennant and Smith' fandoms aside, Capaldi was the best actor to portray the rol. And he had the best character arc hands down. There's no discussion.
10, 11 were great doctors both in their own way. However, IMO 12 is THE Doctor. The way Capaldi takes control of almost every scene is nothing short of spectacular
I liked Capaldi when it WASN'T busy being 'The Clara Oswald Show' . I can say that at the end of the day, after all the episodes, I just didn't care for Clara. I liked her when she was more of a one off character, but ultimately I think she was my least favorite companion.
“When the wind stands fair, and the night is perfect. When you least expect it, but always when you need it the most… there is a song.” - this is how you know he really loved her. Kills me every time.
Precisely, because he wasn't just saying "...but always when you need it the most, there is a song," he was saying, "...but always when I need HER the most, there is MY Song." It's a BRILLIANT bit of metaphor.
I actually think this scene is the Doctor inferring to River that at some point, he goes back a few million years and HE builds the Towers for her, just for this 'one night'.
I like to believe the Doctor created the towers specifically for River here and that’s why seemingly nobody understands how or why they “sing”. My headcanon is that as River finally listens she gets that look of understanding across her face because the Towers are singing out both of their names like that together, forever. “When the wind stands fair, and the night is perfect. When you least expect it, but need it the most… there is a song” sounds AWFULLY similar to “and you mustn’t tell anyone you name. Nobody would understand it, anyway. Except… children. Children can hear it sometimes, if their hearts are in the right place, and stars are too.” I like to think folks can only hear the Towers sing when the conditions are just right the same as they’d need to be to hear his name as anything comprehensible. A Time Lord’s name is probably an ever flowing “concept” more than a name so it can’t be simply said by a human any more than it could be understood but them. Hence they all often use aliases outside their own world. Maybe you can never know/learn the Doctors name without some type of Time Lord DNA.
@@Mikezilla115 in Babylon 5 the true name of the "Shadows" is said to be 10,000 letters long and therefore unpronounceable by anyone else. Even the Vorlons do'n't call them by name.
Good observation - you know that the doctor means her, when he says "when you need it the most ....(pauses) there's a song.. Keep in mind that wile we don't know how long it is after Hell Bent, but losing Clara and her memories left him pretty damaged emotionally - and when he was laughing at being threatened by a bag, he said "I haven't laughed in a long time".. a reference to the period between Hell Bent and this episode. If the doctor needed someone to make him laugh, any adventure with the daffy, insane but clever River Song was bound to cheer him up! Remember, the Tardis always takes him where he needs to go, not where he wants to go!
That whole line was a reference to the library Episode where river said in the last quote. "When the wind stands fair and the doctor comes to call everybody lives
Actually, the Doctor is saying that he is the towers and River is the wind (and the music it creates). Because here's the thing: he's Time Lord (or if he's a Hybrid, he chooses to be Time Lord primarily and tries to suppress/ignore the human aspect). As much as he might appear to change over time, he's basically the same person: the Doctor, the Oncoming Storm, the Monolith. He's been there from the start of the universe to its multiple ends. He doesn't change, deep down inside. The environment might make him seem to change on the outside, but he's still Susan's grandfather, Jenny's father, Amy and Rory's son-in-law, River's husband, Rose's lover, and Clara's best friend. He always was and always will be, no matter what face and what persona he might choose to wear. River, on the other hand, casts her lot in with the humans. Oh, yes, she used to be a Time Lady, but she gave up her regeneration energy to pour it into him, replacing his used up energy with hers to counteract the Judas Tree poison and bring him back to life. She goes where she wishes and does what she wants, just like the Wind, and she was always there to bring a bit of a Song, a touch of a Melody into his life. She flows through his life like the winds between the pillars and leaves him with the sound of beauty, compassion, and loyalty ringing in his ears. She loves him, whether or not he loves her. And together they are always there for the universe when the universe needs them most. He's there for her, and she's there for him. Throughout time, they have been one of the greatest love stories, and they will never cease to amaze and touch the hearts of lives across the galaxy until time ends and life is extinguish.
River: You wait till I've given up hope; all will be lost and you'll do that smug little smile and then you'll save the day. Later, River, giving up all hope: How long is a night on Darillium? Doctor: -Has a smug little smile- 24 years. I love touches like that.
BlockMechanics I also like it's a riposte to her just means time, little time, not something you'd understand and he just smiles knowing he is gonna give her another 24 years 😎
You miss the fact that he already had and he knows it. He knew exactly how itd turn out and how it will turn out. That little comment of River saying that he will save her at the last moment when she had given up hope had already happened. This is the time which tennant realised what the screwdriver meant and literally *"SAVED"* her. Even River was shocked because she was under the influence that The Doctor really cant save her. If you would also try to recall the time that they were in Tranzelore, she was in TARDIS. He uploaded her consciousness. She basically is still alive and on board (idk about capaldis timeline since TARDIS broke down during smiths)
"The last time I saw you, the real you, the future you, you turned up on my doorstep... with a new haircut and a suit. You took me to Darillium to see the Singing Towers. What a night that was. The towers sang, and you cried. You wouldn't say why but I suppose you knew that it was my time. Time to come to the library. You even gave me your screwdriver. That should've been a clue." 😭😭😭😭😭😭
The moment she looks out the window of the spaceship & comments on what planet it is, I screamed 'NO!' at the TV & startled the hell out of my husband. Lol.
Jennifer Sanchez this episode has a bitter sweet ending. You cry because you know what's going to happen after this but you're happy that he gave her 24yrs.
What I like about this scene was that she is asking him to change the timeline, and he said no because she asked him not to. Not one line, don't you dare.
The pain in his voice as he pleads her to stop, saying not everything can be avoided, is so real. He's obeying the order she gave him so many years ago telling him not to change one line of their story. When she says he always saves the day, he says "No, I don't. Not always," because it's the truth. He didn't save the day the first time he met her. She saved him and everyone else, sacrificing herself. Now he has to send her to her death, and it's killing him inside. But he's doing it on his own terms, spending the full 24-year "night" with his wife. I tear up every time I watch this beautiful scene.
That bit at the end, when she says, "I hate you," and he says, "No, you don't" -- that was actually a call back to when Eleven would say that to River throughout the sixth season.
The towers=The Doctors Hearts The song=River If the Doctor didn't have his hearts and if he wasn't around, River wouldn't exist there wouldn't be a song
The 11th Doctor always backed out of this meeting, because he always thought there was a way. The 12th Doctor is here straight after Clara, because he knows no matter how hard he tries there is no way out.
And the Doctor kept his promise. For 24 years, he lived with his wife River Song in domestic bliss on that planet. When the day finally came, the Doctor bid farewell to River; knowing she'd meet Ten
They totally did not just stay on that planet. When has the doctor ever been one to stay in one place? I’m sure they kept going back there but many trips in the tardis were taken I’m sure
@@cunningsmile4166 and he definitely went on trips in the tardis there also. Nardole wouldn’t know, it’s a Time Machine. He couldn’t obey direct orders from himself to stay there!
@@alecbormia4523 You’re missing the fact that at the university he had nothing, he missed space. Here, he has River. The 24 years don’t make any sense if they can just return to any point in time on the planet while spending an arbitrary time in the TARDIS. The Doctor makes it clear that you can’t just use the TARDIS after landing to play with time, not unless you’re TimeLord Victorious. So no, they stayed on that planet for 24 years. They probably traveled using conventional spacecrafts but no TARDIS was allowed, that’s obvious… they only had 24years, no more.
Hear, hear! I'm so incredibly glad that Big Finish Productions are keeping her alive by having her feature in the 8th Doctor adventure "Doom Coalition" and also having her star in her own spin-off series "The Diary of River Song" and is soon due to encounter the 6th and 7th Doctor's!
What few audios I own I've bought from the official Big Finish site. They're worth the money. Buying them helps support Big Finish and in turn helps support Doctor Who and the spin-offs too.
When he says 'there is a song' the doctor chokes up a little bit and before he says it, he seems to be holding back tears. Capaldi is the best actor to portray the doctor. Easy.
@@jooie444 That's exactly what happened. In an interview, Alex said she was holding it together pretty well until she noticed that Peter's eyes were welling up and his voice was breaking. At that point she just couldn't hold on any longer and she broke down, too.
"But when you need it the most, there is a Song." A play on words but you can tell by the Doctor's eye movements and emotion that yes he feels like he is the monolith but he also needs the Song because River means so much to him.
I absolutely love rivers reaction when the doctor says 24 years, Alex Kingston nails the relief and happiness that the character feels, knowing that yes it's the last time they'll be together, but it's going to last decades
I never noticed until now, but it is literally what she describes at the start of the scene. He saves the day at the last minute with a smug little smile.
Yes, but he didn't connect the suit to the library. The sonic and the suit weren't connected. I'm assuming he got the idea from the suit and installed something like it into the sonic.
Remember the special "The Christmas Carol"? Kazran asks 11 how he would choose when to spend the last day with someone he loved. He replies, "Christmas. I'd choose Christmas."
'What do you think of the towers?' 'I love them.' 'Then why are you ignoring them?' 'They're ignoring me... But then... You can't expect a monolith to love you back' This THIS DIALOGUE!!!! The doctor is the monolith!! And she is feeling that he is ignoring her. I can't!!! This beautiful scene gets me everytime!!!!
I absolutely love how River is consumed with sadness that this is her night with the Doctor, but then he says "When you least expect it, but always... when you need it the most... there is a Song." And she understands how much he must need her at this moment, if he gave up trying to avoid Darillium and chose to spend the night with her instead, and so instead of being paralyzed with sorrow, swallows it and reaches out to him (emotionally).
"Remember that time when there were two of you?" I get it, now. That's referencing the minisode "Last Night", in which there are 2 Doctors and 3 Rivers. At the end River says to the past Doctor that the future Doctor is taking her to the singing towers of Darillium and then, the two Doctors talk about what River said in Forest of the Dead. I never understood how they could BOTH be the last night on Darillium as this was with the 11th Doctor. Now, I get it. That was one of the times he cancelled.
She says earlier in the episode that he always cancelled at the las tminute so I guess it's safe to assume the Doctor took here there then instantly took her back
When a TV show makes you cry very, very, very badly. "Watch Doctor Who!" they said. "It will be fun the said!" they said. They lied. A very very big lie.
I never really shipped River and the Doctor but 12 and River's chemistry is off the charts. I think I actually squealed at the end haha. They're so cute together.
It was age appropriate and acting talent appropriate. These were top experienced actors and both were in their 50s. That's why it felt more wholesome than 10 and 11, when it looked like an exploitative cougar relationship.
@@gentblue I mean it's a bit weird to say it looked exploitative given the Doctor's age compared to RIver's. Even if you're talking about real life, Alex Kingston is only 8 years older than David Tennant (who is 14 years older than his actual wife). It definitely came off a bit weird with Matt but I think the main problem is she just didn't have chemistry with anyone other than Peter.
He (11) got so angry when she had to break her wrist to escape the weeping angel and concealed it from him though . There was a moment of stern love and controlled anger born from concern and forgiveness there that a long married couple will recognize
This is also the only time I've liked them as a couple. Her and 11 never looked quite right as a couple, 11 seemed so youthful and looked so young. Her and 12 just look right together.
This scene is sad and meaningful because from The 12th Doctor's point of view this will be the last time he and River Song will be together and he knows that River's life will soon end and that she'll go to the library and meet his tenth incarnation.
Hey man, sometimes a good as heck cuddle is just what you need. They destroy depression (sometimes) and obliterate loneliness, trigger oxytocin. They're good for you.
I like to think they're the ultimate soulmates, finally meeting each other halfway. Even though they're out of sync they are for each other. They have THE time for each other but this time, they finally got the time they need for that one night. It's an amazing ultimate story arc of The Doctor and River Song.
Oliver Linklater And sadly we lost a great man who gave us his heart. But the very next day, we gave it away. This year, to save everyone from tears, I’ll give it to someone special.
Liam Catterson I love the 12th doctor I'm sorry he had to leave us for a new one I haven't got to see the new one only in pictures and I bet she's good just as good as the rest of them all have been
PikaPlayzHD there has been so many better ones but it's a good clever way to end it with river,the episode before this was amazing in every single aspects
It was earth years as confirmed in the next special “The return of Doctor Mysterio” the Doctor had been gone from the earth for 24 years because of this
Also, if night lasts on Darillium for an equivalent of 24 earth years, wouldn’t it get deathly cold from one face of the planet facing away from its parent star for so long? Not to mention the other side of the planet is probably burning at that moment...
I think this is the best River Song episode. the one where she truly finds out that the Doctor does indeed love her as she loves him, and they spend their last night together happily. no battles, no invasions, no enemies, just each other and one last christmas.
This is, in my opinion, one of the best Doctor Who scenes. The Doctor's pain because he can't tell River the truth, and River's fear are all so well acted
River: "You'll wait till I've given up hope. All will be lost, and you'll do that smug little smile and then you'll save the day. You always do." Doctor: "No I don't, not always. Times end, River, because they have to. Because there's no such thing as happy ever after..." River: "So, assuming tonight is all we have left, how long is a night on Darillium?" The Doctor does that smug little smile. "24 years." River: *Gasps/sobs* "I hate you." Doctor: "No you don't."
“How long is a night on Darillium?” “24 years.” The look on Alex Kingston’s face of love and relief is just a testament to her amazing acting, just how well she gets into character.
The last 10 seconds of this really get me. Because even if you take away the ever after, still they lived happily. Even if life ends, and you take away they lived, it still says happily. And that one word is the only one with which truly we measure the success of how our time in this universe is spent. Happily.
I so, so love the music on this scene. It starts with a motif from the Tenth Doctor, then flows beautifully into a version of "Madman with a Box" from the Eleventh, before culminating in a beautiful choral theme from the Twelfths and a hopeful major chord for the future. Just beautiful. Murray Gold knocked it out of the park here.
I've always been in awe of Murray Gold's work on NuWho. He did amazing work right out the gate but it was during Eleven's run that he truly came into his own talent and started putting out genius-level scoring all the time up until the end of his initial tenure on the show. He's one of the most clever, gifted composers working in film or TV right now.
My Wife was my River Song in 12 days my wife will be gone a year passed away at age 47 and we were married for 24 and a half years that 24 years is a day hit me hard very hard last year showing the episode to my brother. it hits me even harder now. Tis pain in unbearable and will be my undoing ...it can not be avoided
She is, figuratively and literally, the 'song' that will live on through you. Her spirit lives on IN you. I'm sorry for your pain and your loss....it truly is a terrible thing. I've lost people I've loved with all my heart too. But never forget that all the good things she was still lives with YOU. Don't give that up, and live the rest of your life well in her memory....living and creating NEW good things and inspiring people to be good. Because that's what she wants for you.
It must be devastating to first, lose clara - even though he can't remember it - and then the person he loved the most. He reached the point where he finally gives in and loves her back and then he has to let her go. "You turned on on my doorstep, with a new haircut and a suit. You took me to Darillium to see the singing towers. What a night that was." River actually told the Doctor how she enjoyed to live with him. She calls the TARDIS their home. And she told him, that they had a great life together. 24 years a beautiful, happy marridge and longer than that, an adventurous and exciting journey they took together. I remember how people asked, why the 10th doctor (to be specific: I mean David Tennants doctor), wouldn't just download her back from the library or saved her in any other way. The moment he realize that he was saving her on his screwdriver, he knew they would life a happy life. That his and her future is already safed, and he could not change it, because it's a fixpoint. And he certainly knew that they lived 24 years on Darillium together in their home. That's where he begins to love her, but won't admit it. And you know what BBC? Alex Kingston as River Song is, and will allways be the most important character in the new who ERA. More than the doctor himself. Because she kept their story secret, and she moved it forward. River Song was the motivation for the Doctor to allways keep going, even if it was an impossible choice. Because SHE was the impossible choice and the most hurting decision he has ever made in his life. And for that, I want to thank you.
OH and btw. I really want to know how Susans mother/father fit in in the story. Did he had another lover/wife/man? Is Susan "adopted"? Where and who is the Doctors son/daughter? Is Susan the daughter of Jenni? All these questions and still yet no answer. :D
Moffat has a theory/idea about their ending. It’s not written but I headcanon it hard. It’s about the Doctor uploading himself to the library after he dies and becoming the Moon. (not sure if this refers to the "moon" or to the Dr. Moon but again, it's just an idea so it doesn't really matter.) And that's their happy ever after.
@@FanziskaUpsi oh also, Susan is not the daughter of Jenny. I believe it's stated that the Doctor raised his daughter so it can't be Jenny. Also Jenny doesn't have access to time travel. Susan is just a part of his old family from Gallifrey. He got married and had children before.
I've just noticed how the Doctor does exactly what River says in the beginning of this scene. He wants until she's lost all hope thinking she only has a few hours left with him, and then he does a smug little smile before telling her they have 24 years together.
The Singing Towers of Derillium were a metaphor for the Doctor and River. No matter how long they are around, even if they don't know it, they will be together. Another way of saying it, without the "Song" from the Singing Towers, they would just be another monolith to be forgotten to time, but once the Song is brought in, the Monolith becomes a sign of Hope.
There's a scene in the spinoff "Class" where he sees her name on a memorial board, at the school she worked at, among a list of others and lingers on it. He remembers enough, and between the graffiti on his Tardis, and meeting Clara again in the dinner, he has an idea who she is.
Tulf42 I think he faked forgetting her, to let her go. He went through way too much to get her back, broke alot of rules that were important to him. He had to let her go
I always thought the Doctor did forget Clara, but it's more like his memories of her are suppressed, not altogether erased. So the impression she made on him and the lessons he learned from her are still very much a part of him. In random moments like this, it shows.
I love River with Twelve so much because I feel he realized how selfish he was when he was Eleven when it came to River. No hate on Eleven, he clearly did care about River, but because of how care free and purposefully forgetful he could be, Eleven seemed to treat their relationship more like a chore. He knew what was going to happen, so he kept his distance, not understanding how that would make River feel. Twelve was the stage in the Doctor's life when he finally broke that wall down and gave his wife the best last years of her life.
@@AndereundIch well the first time the doctor met River she sacrifice herself for him. He might subconsciously be pushing her away as well afraid to get too attached to someone he knows will die
@@Kibatsume1 We dont get to see that. Not a hint of that. The reason he had distance to Amy and Rorry from time to time because he didnt want them to fade away, something he isn't afraid of with River.
His reaction earlier in the episode when she’s yelling about how he doesn’t love her back and then the very last moment he looks at her the same way she looks at him is so sweet and you can see that he absolutely does love her. The two of them together is one of my most favourite couples ever.
That sobbing gasp she makes when he tells her how long never fails to make me cry And then the “they lived happily ever after” blowing away to dust bit by bit They lived happily ever after They lived happily Happily Just the dark I can’t handle this
Now that's the clip! Such a good resolution to their story. River's whole arc works fantastically. I wished we could have had at least one more story with River and the 10th Doctor (I thought she would have made a great companion for Planet of the Dead) but it was a real challenge to give their relationship that eternal aspect that it's portrayed and the show did it marvellously. Plus the "24 years" thing leaves the door slightly ajar for another appearance from River at some point.
lepermessiah998 she ages backwards which means that everything that happened with river over the course of David tenant and Matt smith was the 24 years... she is actually gone, a circle complete.
I just rewatched this episode and this moment was every bit as beautiful as I remember. Capaldi and Kingston putting on award-worthy performances. This was the moment _I_ fell in love with #12.
I still love that he’s like “this is our last night together so lets make this 24 years count” now from him thats to commitment seeing how he always hates staying in one spot for a day let alone 24 years
in different time line in the depth of infinite multiverse blanket there is a thread where the Ponds, Doctor and River have a nice Christmas feast together.
The sonic screwdriver is a bootstrap paradox in River's case. The Doctor gave her the screwdriver for 10 to save her, but then he knew to give her the screwdriver, because that's how 10 saved her.
Jesus give people a term and they will over use it. 10 came before 12. he has the memories of that regeneration. he created the screwdriver from his memories of the event of the past. Rivers time line runs in reverse to his. She is a younger River when we see her with 12 than the river we see her with 10. the older doctor gives the younger River the screwdriver and off screen tells her basically, "You must not lose this. Your life will depend on it one day because spoilers." She does as she is told and thus an object passes from his timeline to hers so that she can give his younger self an object he will need.
@@matthewosborne8384 10 saved River with the screwdriver because 12 gave her the screwdriver. But 12 knows how to save River, because he remembers saving River with screwdriver. Who came up with the solution: 10 or 12?
What a scene! A brilliant way to tie up River's story, and the fact that this COULD be the last time we see her, as we follow The Doctor in his lives, not River. The Emotions really kick in with this scene, and River and Twelve are such a good pair. I will always cherish this episode as being one of the best Christmas specials :)
I think the episode made it pretty clear that this WAS River's last episode, given that she only knows the Doctor's faces up to 11, and ends on Darillium
Never noticed this until now, but just look at 12’s face at the 2:35 mark. Look at how sad and how hard he is trying to hold back his emotions, at the thought that this is the last time he gets with River before the library.
The extreme end of trying to hold back crying outright. River did say that he cried that night. Capaldi's acting is extremely fantastic right at this moment.
Peter Capaldi is the best actor to ever play The Doctor. I love each incarnation, but the subtlety he displays is beyond measure. I'll miss him. But I eagerly anticipate Jodi Whittiker.
@@CrystalFox_64 Quite funny actually, you can see a metric crapton of videos on YT with 9-10-11-12 .. but its almost impossible to find anything with 13. That kind of shows how bad they f'd up in the story writing, no real good moments. Lucky number 13 eh?
The Doctor says "When the wind stands fair" when describing the song, the same words River uses at the end of The Forest of the Dead when describing a day when nobody dies. That's remarkable attention to detail as I can't imagine it's a coincidence. It also neatly ties the end of this story to River's first appearance as it would suggest she is echoing the Doctor's words.
And as always she was right. Just as she lost hope he gave that smug little smile and sprung the loophole on her making everything alright and giving her, according to her definition her Happily ever After.
I always thought that this was the most beautiful and heartbreaking scene I have ever seen in doctor Who. I just realized that his line is "when you least expect it but always need it the most there is a 'Song'". It is even more of an I love you then I first realized.
River is finally with HER Doctor - the one she described in grand detail in the Library. I loved this episode and scene.
Although I don't remember him snapping to open the TARDIS.
That doctor was a very long time ago
I guess in retrospect its a bit weird she describes matt smith more than the one she spent 24 years with, but then again she's probably fond of the first face she saw
Is it? With the Doctor changing time to get a new regenerative cycle, maybe time has changed....
CinemaBiohazard he didn't change time to get it. It was gifted to him from the timelords through a crack in the universe
"There are stories about us"
"Oh I dread to think"
I imagine he's heard of fanfiction?
And those stories turned into Songs
Why do you think 12 constantly said 'Stay out of my browser history'.
Paul S this is exactly what I was thinking lmao
I remember he can look up to that stuff with the sonic screwdriver. He said it in the 50th anniversary movie
"I hate you!"
"No you don't."
One of the most classic dialogue between this couple. Always gets me. Sometimes in a bitter way, sometimes in a sweet way.
In an interview with Kingston, they had to keep re-shooting because both of them kept tearing up doing this scene, it was that powerful and romantic all at once.
Is that actually true!? If it is, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THAT FACT!🤩
I think this is the intervju.😉
czcams.com/video/QIDeOUsULhw/video.htmlsi=IV-det7VH87ln_7t@@MaskFanaticYT
Lol they were probably laughing because they were speaking in a code, a language, that no one knew existed in that moment.
Because in the year 2024 the trap was set and the the pin pulled lol
They should have used those takes.
The thing abt Alex's character... it had chemistry with all 3 doctors...it was believable that River & Doctor were in love regardless of what face the Doctor wore. She's amazing.
I would want to see her with eccleston
She has interactions with more doctors in her various Big Finish adventures, including 8 and 4.
I'll be honest, I never really bought her with 11
@@thedoctor1263 ecclestonwas so human thou. She might find him even more child like then she thought off tennant
@@TokenOracle and 5 and 7 (and 7 especially was hilarious!!!)
I really feel sorry for anyone who didnt stick with doctor who to this point. The river song arc was incredible, and Rivers relief when he says '24 years' was felt by everyone. I still tear up.
I just bought Peter's box set so I can finally give it a proper watch
@@visisydandthevoid Seasons 9 and 10 are so good you won't regret it. Season 8 is solid too but to me it's not nearly as good as the other two.
And we cried with her
This scene and the scene where the doctor meets her for the first time always make me cry, they're both beautifully and perfectly written.
I remember my first reaction having heard 24 years was a quick laugh and was so happy for her knowing what was to come. This was such a well written character
"This Song is ending.. but the story never ends..."
Sean Grand every river leads somewhere
Ivan Rosas and that somewhere is a library
and on the top of valley that a river runs through,are trees
Sometimes stories turn into songs...?
PetritZeneli And songs help by telling stories.
They always met backwards. She knew him more and he knew her less. On and on for hundreds of years.
Except this moment.
This is, for the two of them, the second to last time they see each other.
And it’s because she’s about to die.
This is the best written relationship story in all tv history and you can’t change my mind.
He wont see her again?
@@Julia_Berrrlin I'm not a big who watcher but from what i understand, after this, her next encounters are with his previous selves in earlier episodes, and her first ever show encounter with the doctor is with the 10th, and she sacrifices herself for him. Sooo yeah after this, she's basically walking around with the death flag.
It's a very interesting strange relationship, cos she meets him backwards, the more she knows him the less he knows her and the first time they meet is the day she dies.
Silence in the Library is directly after the 24 years end
@@RoballTV The Next encounter is with the 10th doctor (back to the beginning of her loop) and she dies at the Second Library of Alexandria ("Silence in the Library/"Forest of the Dead.") She meets him with a face she doesn't know and he has never met her.
Wait no, that's wrong. She's going to see him twice more and he won't ever see her again. She sees Ten at the Library and then Eleven at his grave with Clara.
The moment where she says that he always comes up with a loophole to save the day last minute, and he replies, 'No, I don't." And you realize, he's remembering watching helplessly as she sacrificed herself in the library.
But I mean, he did... Kind of find a loophole there.
He uploaded her consciousness into the library. Did that not count? Or... I dunno that episode always confused me just a smidge
@@incognitogirl6201 she means that he can stop her leaving Darillium (and by extension, stop her going to the library and dying, unbeknownst to her) but he knows she has to leave Darillium and go there bc he's seen it himself
Honestly timelines are confusing as fuck, but I like how Moffat really played with the concept of time in Doctor Who, time travel is more than just how they get somewhere
@@incognitogirl6201 and 11 even talked with her.
@@matthewlacey4198 The Doctor knows that this is the last time he will ever see River - its time for her to go to the Library when the night is over. Its actually brilliant what Moffat has done with River's storyline - having a complete character in the first episode we see her in, and in her future episodes, we get to see the gradual deconstruction, and rebuilding of her character up to Husbands
He knows that if he did anything to prevent her going to the library he would have never met her which would have led to him sacrificing himself in the library and possibly never meeting Amy and river never being born at all
Oh, I still love this ending, where River gets her happily ever after with a Doctor who can show her that he loves her. And I love that we don't get to see one moment of their years together. That time is theirs alone.
Give Chibnall time and that mystery will be spoiled. He's now giving answers no one wanted to know, such as where did the time lords or the Doctor come from. I hope I'm wrong.
I still dislike when the Doctor regenerates the ring falls off her finger and down onto the floor of the tardis before it goes spinning around meaning the ring is likely lost for good. So I guess marriages in Galifrey are for one regeneration, seems a quick way out of a bad marriage.
I agree. I feel like Ten cared about her [not dying], Eleven liked having her around, and Twelve interacted with River like old married couples do, the ones who possess true love. I’m glad that he was able to show her the love that River, before meeting Twelve, held for the Doctor but never got. Twelve and River have true connection.
@@sockpuppetmogwai856 Oh actually! I know this hasn't been responded to in a while, but that little detail was actually about Capaldi. He refused to take his wedding ring off to play the role, so the entire series his Doctor wore it because he couldn't bare to part with something that connected him to his wife. At his regeneration, the ring fell as symbolizing the end of his era (and they couldn't exactly have Thirteen walk around wearing Capaldi's wedding ring). Technically they connected a second band to his but, yeah, it came from his wedding ring. I've found it to be a really sweet detail, and it's more connected to outside references instead of canon details
@@sockpuppetmogwai856 I mean, the phrase is "till death do us part."
Star Wars fans: “I love you”
“I know.”
Doctor Who fans: “I hate you”
“No you don’t”
*I know* right?
Me, a fan of both: "I hate you."
*smug smile* "I know."
Well sadly we do now
and good omens fans too
@@leemav5136 is that cause of Patrick troughton being in that movie?..
I've said this a million times, but Peter can do more with a look than many actors can do with a page of dialogue. When River finally asks "So, how long is a night on Darillium?", you can quite literally SEE the twinkle in his eye, and almost hear him thinking "Now THAT, my love, is the right question". But instead of actually giving him that dialogue, Moffat lets Peter show it to the audience. Incredible.
EXACTLY! Peter can really act with just using his facial expressions.
He did that thing she says he always does. Just when she’d given up hope (“if tonight is all we have left…”), he did that smug little smile he always does and found some loophole
Truly! Peter is so amazing! It was obvious with Matt's doctor that he cared for River but with Peter you can see how much he really loves her. This is the doctor and River at their best ♥️
As Matt was an incarnation of the doctor, he didn't just care for her he loved her, as did all the regenerated doctors as they are the same person through time.
This is why we have the old maxim "show, don't tell." It is so much more effective. But too few writers these days understand that and feel the need to explain everything in excessive detail because they think the audience can't figure it out.
"24 years . . ."
*eyefaucets activate*
Kenthor HaGadol More like cries for 24 years..
It's like they inflate!
How much sex can ANYONY have in 24 years
Alexander Mills with two hearts as well
Also an important question - how are those years being measured? In Earth years, in Gallifreyan years, in some other form...
Calpaldi is a very under-appreciated Doctor. As who fans get older they should rewatch the series. Then they will appreciate the beauty of this and other scenes.
I'm 24 and Capaldi is my fav. Letting both Tennant and Smith' fandoms aside, Capaldi was the best actor to portray the rol. And he had the best character arc hands down. There's no discussion.
You're right, I'm just learning this now 😂😭
10, 11 were great doctors both in their own way. However, IMO 12 is THE Doctor. The way Capaldi takes control of almost every scene is nothing short of spectacular
Capaldi was the one who got me watching the show again
I liked Capaldi when it WASN'T busy being 'The Clara Oswald Show' . I can say that at the end of the day, after all the episodes, I just didn't care for Clara. I liked her when she was more of a one off character, but ultimately I think she was my least favorite companion.
“When the wind stands fair, and the night is perfect. When you least expect it, but always when you need it the most… there is a song.” - this is how you know he really loved her.
Kills me every time.
Precisely, because he wasn't just saying "...but always when you need it the most, there is a song," he was saying, "...but always when I need HER the most, there is MY Song."
It's a BRILLIANT bit of metaphor.
I actually think this scene is the Doctor inferring to River that at some point, he goes back a few million years and HE builds the Towers for her, just for this 'one night'.
It's also another call-back to the Library: "When the wind stands fair and the Doctor comes to call, sometimes... everybody lives."
I like to believe the Doctor created the towers specifically for River here and that’s why seemingly nobody understands how or why they “sing”. My headcanon is that as River finally listens she gets that look of understanding across her face because the Towers are singing out both of their names like that together, forever. “When the wind stands fair, and the night is perfect. When you least expect it, but need it the most… there is a song” sounds AWFULLY similar to “and you mustn’t tell anyone you name. Nobody would understand it, anyway. Except… children. Children can hear it sometimes, if their hearts are in the right place, and stars are too.”
I like to think folks can only hear the Towers sing when the conditions are just right the same as they’d need to be to hear his name as anything comprehensible. A Time Lord’s name is probably an ever flowing “concept” more than a name so it can’t be simply said by a human any more than it could be understood but them. Hence they all often use aliases outside their own world. Maybe you can never know/learn the Doctors name without some type of Time Lord DNA.
@@Mikezilla115 in Babylon 5 the true name of the "Shadows" is said to be 10,000 letters long and therefore unpronounceable by anyone else. Even the Vorlons do'n't call them by name.
"24 years..."
I love that a single line from this show can genuinely make me happy, when not much can these days.
Steven Moffat wrote 24 years as a tribute to Peter Capaldi's real life marriage of 24 years at that time.
@@jooie444 - Sweet!
@@jooie444 that explains why it was so little
I cried when 12 said 24 Years. because 24 years is enough time for the Doctor and River to have a child and watch their child grow up.
I love that line '... but always when you need it, there is a song.' I only just realised that she's the song and he's the monolith
Good observation - you know that the doctor means her, when he says "when you need it the most ....(pauses) there's a song.. Keep in mind that wile we don't know how long it is after Hell Bent, but losing Clara and her memories left him pretty damaged emotionally - and when he was laughing at being threatened by a bag, he said "I haven't laughed in a long time".. a reference to the period between Hell Bent and this episode. If the doctor needed someone to make him laugh, any adventure with the daffy, insane but clever River Song was bound to cheer him up! Remember, the Tardis always takes him where he needs to go, not where he wants to go!
That whole line was a reference to the library Episode where river said in the last quote. "When the wind stands fair and the doctor comes to call everybody lives
Actually, the Doctor is saying that he is the towers and River is the wind (and the music it creates).
Because here's the thing: he's Time Lord (or if he's a Hybrid, he chooses to be Time Lord primarily and tries to suppress/ignore the human aspect). As much as he might appear to change over time, he's basically the same person: the Doctor, the Oncoming Storm, the Monolith. He's been there from the start of the universe to its multiple ends. He doesn't change, deep down inside. The environment might make him seem to change on the outside, but he's still Susan's grandfather, Jenny's father, Amy and Rory's son-in-law, River's husband, Rose's lover, and Clara's best friend. He always was and always will be, no matter what face and what persona he might choose to wear.
River, on the other hand, casts her lot in with the humans. Oh, yes, she used to be a Time Lady, but she gave up her regeneration energy to pour it into him, replacing his used up energy with hers to counteract the Judas Tree poison and bring him back to life. She goes where she wishes and does what she wants, just like the Wind, and she was always there to bring a bit of a Song, a touch of a Melody into his life. She flows through his life like the winds between the pillars and leaves him with the sound of beauty, compassion, and loyalty ringing in his ears. She loves him, whether or not he loves her.
And together they are always there for the universe when the universe needs them most. He's there for her, and she's there for him. Throughout time, they have been one of the greatest love stories, and they will never cease to amaze and touch the hearts of lives across the galaxy until time ends and life is extinguish.
Well said!
Wasn't the hybrid thing about the Doctor being half Dalek though?
River: You wait till I've given up hope; all will be lost and you'll do that smug little smile and then you'll save the day.
Later,
River, giving up all hope: How long is a night on Darillium?
Doctor: -Has a smug little smile- 24 years.
I love touches like that.
BlockMechanics I also like it's a riposte to her just means time, little time, not something you'd understand and he just smiles knowing he is gonna give her another 24 years 😎
River: I hate you
@@juliakim5825 Doctor: No you don't.
You miss the fact that he already had and he knows it. He knew exactly how itd turn out and how it will turn out.
That little comment of River saying that he will save her at the last moment when she had given up hope had already happened.
This is the time which tennant realised what the screwdriver meant and literally *"SAVED"* her.
Even River was shocked because she was under the influence that The Doctor really cant save her.
If you would also try to recall the time that they were in Tranzelore, she was in TARDIS. He uploaded her consciousness. She basically is still alive and on board (idk about capaldis timeline since TARDIS broke down during smiths)
What happens after she is downloaded?
"The last time I saw you, the real you, the future you, you turned up on my doorstep... with a new haircut and a suit. You took me to Darillium to see the Singing Towers. What a night that was. The towers sang, and you cried. You wouldn't say why but I suppose you knew that it was my time. Time to come to the library. You even gave me your screwdriver. That should've been a clue." 😭😭😭😭😭😭
The moment she looks out the window of the spaceship & comments on what planet it is, I screamed 'NO!' at the TV & startled the hell out of my husband. Lol.
Jennifer Sanchez this episode has a bitter sweet ending. You cry because you know what's going to happen after this but you're happy that he gave her 24yrs.
"You and me... Time And Space..."
"You watch us run"
Maria Fox i remember that!!!
What I like about this scene was that she is asking him to change the timeline, and he said no because she asked him not to.
Not one line, don't you dare.
😢
The pain in his voice as he pleads her to stop, saying not everything can be avoided, is so real. He's obeying the order she gave him so many years ago telling him not to change one line of their story. When she says he always saves the day, he says "No, I don't. Not always," because it's the truth. He didn't save the day the first time he met her. She saved him and everyone else, sacrificing herself. Now he has to send her to her death, and it's killing him inside. But he's doing it on his own terms, spending the full 24-year "night" with his wife. I tear up every time I watch this beautiful scene.
Precisely stated.
I feel it. I feel you 😭
It's the end, but the moment has been prepared for.
I see what you did there !
Anthony Ribeiro Ikr.
Nice one
Doctor Who loves my comment! 🙌
"We will sing you to your sleep…"
That bit at the end, when she says, "I hate you," and he says, "No, you don't" -- that was actually a call back to when Eleven would say that to River throughout the sixth season.
Is it? Hadn't noticed!
yep, read above
Actually that was first said during the silence in the library River says I hate you and the tenth doctor replies I know
And it was fucking PERFECT. They really make you believe that these are the same two people.
OMG NO WAY!!
*sarcasm intensifies*
The towers=The Doctors Hearts
The song=River
If the Doctor didn't have his hearts and if he wasn't around, River wouldn't exist there wouldn't be a song
The Observer That is so beautiful, it sounds like poetry that metaphor.
Beautiful. I can't thank you enough.
the song = a Melody :D
I wonder, if doctor was the one who arranged those towers.
@@lonelytraveler541 could be since he did a lot of things in the universe
The 11th Doctor always backed out of this meeting, because he always thought there was a way.
The 12th Doctor is here straight after Clara, because he knows no matter how hard he tries there is no way out.
And the Doctor kept his promise. For 24 years, he lived with his wife River Song in domestic bliss on that planet. When the day finally came, the Doctor bid farewell to River; knowing she'd meet Ten
And he gave her, his old screwdriver
They totally did not just stay on that planet. When has the doctor ever been one to stay in one place? I’m sure they kept going back there but many trips in the tardis were taken I’m sure
@@alecbormia4523he stayed at St Luke University for 70 years remember
@@cunningsmile4166 and he definitely went on trips in the tardis there also. Nardole wouldn’t know, it’s a Time Machine. He couldn’t obey direct orders from himself to stay there!
@@alecbormia4523 You’re missing the fact that at the university he had nothing, he missed space. Here, he has River. The 24 years don’t make any sense if they can just return to any point in time on the planet while spending an arbitrary time in the TARDIS. The Doctor makes it clear that you can’t just use the TARDIS after landing to play with time, not unless you’re TimeLord Victorious. So no, they stayed on that planet for 24 years. They probably traveled using conventional spacecrafts but no TARDIS was allowed, that’s obvious… they only had 24years, no more.
And the circle is complete
Hear, hear! I'm so incredibly glad that Big Finish Productions are keeping her alive by having her feature in the 8th Doctor adventure "Doom Coalition" and also having her star in her own spin-off series "The Diary of River Song" and is soon due to encounter the 6th and 7th Doctor's!
The Adventures of River Song would've made a better spinoff than Class
Alan Kelly hey do u know how to get big finish audio for free
What few audios I own I've bought from the official Big Finish site. They're worth the money. Buying them helps support Big Finish and in turn helps support Doctor Who and the spin-offs too.
Aakash Vadher or is it?... 😏
When he says 'there is a song' the doctor chokes up a little bit and before he says it, he seems to be holding back tears. Capaldi is the best actor to portray the doctor. Easy.
Apparently in the first take or rehearsals, Peter did cry and Alex just lost it and cried too.
@@jooie444 I would have also cried, like how can you not?
@@jooie444 That's exactly what happened. In an interview, Alex said she was holding it together pretty well until she noticed that Peter's eyes were welling up and his voice was breaking. At that point she just couldn't hold on any longer and she broke down, too.
@@aec9174 I think I would be a blubbering mess if I saw that footage.
@@jooie444 Me, too!!
"But when you need it the most, there is a Song." A play on words but you can tell by the Doctor's eye movements and emotion that yes he feels like he is the monolith but he also needs the Song because River means so much to him.
Even the little sigh Alex Kingston delivers is just spot on. The moment of clarity as River understands the metaphor.
Moffat « I’d like to see them together it’ll be hilarious » *proceeds to make the saddest and most beautiful episode ever about them*
I absolutely love rivers reaction when the doctor says 24 years, Alex Kingston nails the relief and happiness that the character feels, knowing that yes it's the last time they'll be together, but it's going to last decades
It's one banger of a Christmas gift he gave her.
I never noticed until now, but it is literally what she describes at the start of the scene. He saves the day at the last minute with a smug little smile.
With that, River has her sonic, and the time strand to the moment where the Doctor first met river is complete.
Justin White I JUST NOTICED IT WAS THE SONIC HE GAVE THAT WOULD END UP BACK IN TENTH'S TIME!!!
And when he does the little motion with it turning it on in the previous clip, he's scanning her brain so she can be uploaded to the library.
Althalus2010 omg, I never made THAT connection, but you're absolutely right!
Althalus2010 Uh...no...the suit she wears in that episode does that.
Yes, but he didn't connect the suit to the library. The sonic and the suit weren't connected. I'm assuming he got the idea from the suit and installed something like it into the sonic.
Remember the special "The Christmas Carol"? Kazran asks 11 how he would choose when to spend the last day with someone he loved. He replies, "Christmas. I'd choose Christmas."
'What do you think of the towers?'
'I love them.'
'Then why are you ignoring them?'
'They're ignoring me... But then...
You can't expect a monolith to love you back'
This THIS DIALOGUE!!!! The doctor is the monolith!! And she is feeling that he is ignoring her. I can't!!! This beautiful scene gets me everytime!!!!
"How long is a night on Darillium?"
Doctor: *smiles smug little smile*
Totally need another showcase of these two .
I absolutely love how River is consumed with sadness that this is her night with the Doctor, but then he says
"When you least expect it, but always... when you need it the most... there is a Song."
And she understands how much he must need her at this moment, if he gave up trying to avoid Darillium and chose to spend the night with her instead, and so instead of being paralyzed with sorrow, swallows it and reaches out to him (emotionally).
i love how he just smiles when she says how long. she always asks the right questions
"You wait until I've given up hope, all will be lost and you'll do that smug little smile and you'll save the day. You always do!"
"Remember that time when there were two of you?"
I get it, now. That's referencing the minisode "Last Night", in which there are 2 Doctors and 3 Rivers. At the end River says to the past Doctor that the future Doctor is taking her to the singing towers of Darillium and then, the two Doctors talk about what River said in Forest of the Dead. I never understood how they could BOTH be the last night on Darillium as this was with the 11th Doctor. Now, I get it. That was one of the times he cancelled.
NPCarlsson Right!
She says earlier in the episode that he always cancelled at the las tminute so I guess it's safe to assume the Doctor took here there then instantly took her back
NPCarlsson any ideas how I can watch that minisode? Because I can’t find it anywhere on CZcams!
www.dailymotion.com/video/xn354o
Well done that's right!
When a TV show makes you cry very, very, very badly. "Watch Doctor Who!" they said. "It will be fun the said!" they said.
They lied. A very very big lie.
Rule One: The Doctor lies
"It's a great show," they said
"Watch it," they said
"Why are you crying on the floor," they said
You hate it?
No you dont
The best lie you ever heard.
It's the most wonderful lie, and it's one you intend to repeat.
I never really shipped River and the Doctor but 12 and River's chemistry is off the charts. I think I actually squealed at the end haha. They're so cute together.
Agreed! I feel like Eleven liked River, but Twelve truly shows her the love she wishes she got when they meet earlier in the episode.
It was age appropriate and acting talent appropriate. These were top experienced actors and both were in their 50s. That's why it felt more wholesome than 10 and 11, when it looked like an exploitative cougar relationship.
@@gentblue I mean it's a bit weird to say it looked exploitative given the Doctor's age compared to RIver's. Even if you're talking about real life, Alex Kingston is only 8 years older than David Tennant (who is 14 years older than his actual wife). It definitely came off a bit weird with Matt but I think the main problem is she just didn't have chemistry with anyone other than Peter.
He (11) got so angry when she had to break her wrist to escape the weeping angel and concealed it from him though . There was a moment of stern love and controlled anger born from concern and forgiveness there that a long married couple will recognize
This is also the only time I've liked them as a couple. Her and 11 never looked quite right as a couple, 11 seemed so youthful and looked so young. Her and 12 just look right together.
After watching Silence in the Library, this scene holds a lot of goddamn meaning.
Same I just watched it again and wow my heart ❤️
After watching this scene, Silence in the Library holds a lot more meaning.
This scene is sad and meaningful because from The 12th Doctor's point of view this will be the last time he and River Song will be together and he knows that River's life will soon end and that she'll go to the library and meet his tenth incarnation.
She literally grew old with the doctor. So touching
River Song is and will always be my favourite companion to the doctor.
best part about dating a millennia-old time traveler: "Oh alright, we'll stop and cuddle for a couple of decades. Then will you be ready to go?"
Hey man, sometimes a good as heck cuddle is just what you need. They destroy depression (sometimes) and obliterate loneliness, trigger oxytocin. They're good for you.
What an ending to a perfect duo over the span of 7 years. Man, thats long.
Only these two can have that chemistry without kisses, without knowing what "looks amazing" means, without sweet lies. Simply oh my god.
I like to think they're the ultimate soulmates, finally meeting each other halfway. Even though they're out of sync they are for each other. They have THE time for each other but this time, they finally got the time they need for that one night. It's an amazing ultimate story arc of The Doctor and River Song.
Every Christmas is last Christmas. love that refrence
Oliver Linklater And sadly we lost a great man who gave us his heart. But the very next day, we gave it away. This year, to save everyone from tears, I’ll give it to someone special.
MikeRiderOOO no he means the Christmas special before that called last Christmas
Here we go again (sobs)
i know, ive seen this scene so many times and i still cry at the relief on her face when he says how long a night is
ScatterBrainUK Mamma mia here we go again.
Liam Catterson I love the 12th doctor I'm sorry he had to leave us for a new one I haven't got to see the new one only in pictures and I bet she's good just as good as the rest of them all have been
I kinda wanna be more than friends! (crying intensifies)
One of the best Doctor Who Christmas Specials hands down :)
PikaPlayzHD there has been so many better ones but it's a good clever way to end it with river,the episode before this was amazing in every single aspects
You mean Hell bent? That wasn't very good.
This is second, right after A Christmas Carol in my opinion
+Austin “Jack” Cass That's not a Christmas special.
my bad
"How long is a night on Darillium?"
"Twenty-four years."
Now, is that Earthling years, Gallifreyan years, or Darillium years?
Barry Smith doctor had been used to using earth time due to his mostly human companions.Maybe earth years.
Yes
It was earth years as confirmed in the next special “The return of Doctor Mysterio” the Doctor had been gone from the earth for 24 years because of this
Also, if night lasts on Darillium for an equivalent of 24 earth years, wouldn’t it get deathly cold from one face of the planet facing away from its parent star for so long? Not to mention the other side of the planet is probably burning at that moment...
I’d say there’s 2 suns but then it’d be eternal day
I think this is the best River Song episode. the one where she truly finds out that the Doctor does indeed love her as she loves him, and they spend their last night together happily. no battles, no invasions, no enemies, just each other and one last christmas.
I’d agree, but as with many doctor who arcs, it wouldn’t have nearly as much impact without the rest of the episodes she’s in
This is, in my opinion, one of the best Doctor Who scenes. The Doctor's pain because he can't tell River the truth, and River's fear are all so well acted
It's wonderful Peter got to act out this scene. Must have been cool for him as a super fan.
River: "You'll wait till I've given up hope. All will be lost, and you'll do that smug little smile and then you'll save the day. You always do."
Doctor: "No I don't, not always. Times end, River, because they have to. Because there's no such thing as happy ever after..."
River: "So, assuming tonight is all we have left, how long is a night on Darillium?"
The Doctor does that smug little smile.
"24 years."
River: *Gasps/sobs* "I hate you."
Doctor: "No you don't."
“How long is a night on Darillium?”
“24 years.”
The look on Alex Kingston’s face of love and relief is just a testament to her amazing acting, just how well she gets into character.
The last 10 seconds of this really get me. Because even if you take away the ever after, still they lived happily. Even if life ends, and you take away they lived, it still says happily. And that one word is the only one with which truly we measure the success of how our time in this universe is spent. Happily.
Hands down the single most romantic scenes of any performance...EVER. I keep seeing this in my dreams. They are two of the absolute best performers!!!
I so, so love the music on this scene. It starts with a motif from the Tenth Doctor, then flows beautifully into a version of "Madman with a Box" from the Eleventh, before culminating in a beautiful choral theme from the Twelfths and a hopeful major chord for the future.
Just beautiful. Murray Gold knocked it out of the park here.
I've always been in awe of Murray Gold's work on NuWho. He did amazing work right out the gate but it was during Eleven's run that he truly came into his own talent and started putting out genius-level scoring all the time up until the end of his initial tenure on the show. He's one of the most clever, gifted composers working in film or TV right now.
Still chokes me up when River gasps at "24 years"
The skinny old Scotsman just wiped the floor with all his previous incarnations in my eyes.
"- So... assuming tonight is all we have left -
- I didn't say that. -
- How long... is a night on Darillium? -
- Twenty-four years. -"
My Wife was my River Song in 12 days my wife will be gone a year passed away at age 47 and we were married for 24 and a half years that 24 years is a day hit me hard very hard last year showing the episode to my brother. it hits me even harder now.
Tis pain in unbearable and will be my undoing ...it can not be avoided
She is, figuratively and literally, the 'song' that will live on through you. Her spirit lives on IN you. I'm sorry for your pain and your loss....it truly is a terrible thing. I've lost people I've loved with all my heart too.
But never forget that all the good things she was still lives with YOU. Don't give that up, and live the rest of your life well in her memory....living and creating NEW good things and inspiring people to be good. Because that's what she wants for you.
Praying for you man, hang in there
It must be devastating to first, lose clara - even though he can't remember it - and then the person he loved the most. He reached the point where he finally gives in and loves her back and then he has to let her go.
"You turned on on my doorstep, with a new haircut and a suit. You took me to Darillium to see the singing towers. What a night that was." River actually told the Doctor how she enjoyed to live with him. She calls the TARDIS their home. And she told him, that they had a great life together. 24 years a beautiful, happy marridge and longer than that, an adventurous and exciting journey they took together.
I remember how people asked, why the 10th doctor (to be specific: I mean David Tennants doctor), wouldn't just download her back from the library or saved her in any other way.
The moment he realize that he was saving her on his screwdriver, he knew they would life a happy life. That his and her future is already safed, and he could not change it, because it's a fixpoint. And he certainly knew that they lived 24 years on Darillium together in their home. That's where he begins to love her, but won't admit it.
And you know what BBC? Alex Kingston as River Song is, and will allways be the most important character in the new who ERA. More than the doctor himself. Because she kept their story secret, and she moved it forward. River Song was the motivation for the Doctor to allways keep going, even if it was an impossible choice. Because SHE was the impossible choice and the most hurting decision he has ever made in his life.
And for that, I want to thank you.
OH and btw. I really want to know how Susans mother/father fit in in the story. Did he had another lover/wife/man? Is Susan "adopted"? Where and who is the Doctors son/daughter? Is Susan the daughter of Jenni?
All these questions and still yet no answer. :D
Moffat has a theory/idea about their ending. It’s not written but I headcanon it hard. It’s about the Doctor uploading himself to the library after he dies and becoming the Moon. (not sure if this refers to the "moon" or to the Dr. Moon but again, it's just an idea so it doesn't really matter.) And that's their happy ever after.
@@FanziskaUpsi oh also, Susan is not the daughter of Jenny. I believe it's stated that the Doctor raised his daughter so it can't be Jenny. Also Jenny doesn't have access to time travel. Susan is just a part of his old family from Gallifrey. He got married and had children before.
I love this comment!
I love the little smile on the Doctor's face before he says "24 years", it's like he's thinking "One last lucky escape for the pair of us"
I've just noticed how the Doctor does exactly what River says in the beginning of this scene. He wants until she's lost all hope thinking she only has a few hours left with him, and then he does a smug little smile before telling her they have 24 years together.
"...when you least expect it. But always, when you need the most... there is a Song."
He's not talking about the Towers is he... 😭😭❤❤❤❤❤
The Singing Towers of Derillium were a metaphor for the Doctor and River. No matter how long they are around, even if they don't know it, they will be together.
Another way of saying it, without the "Song" from the Singing Towers, they would just be another monolith to be forgotten to time, but once the Song is brought in, the Monolith becomes a sign of Hope.
"Every Christmas is Last Christmas"
Anyone else think the Doctor remembers Clara...
There's a scene in the spinoff "Class" where he sees her name on a memorial board, at the school she worked at, among a list of others and lingers on it. He remembers enough, and between the graffiti on his Tardis, and meeting Clara again in the dinner, he has an idea who she is.
Tulf42 I think he faked forgetting her, to let her go. He went through way too much to get her back, broke alot of rules that were important to him. He had to let her go
Chiko was here I think the bad writers just forgot tbh though I like your theory
I always thought the Doctor did forget Clara, but it's more like his memories of her are suppressed, not altogether erased. So the impression she made on him and the lessons he learned from her are still very much a part of him. In random moments like this, it shows.
Kayley Hodson You know the Doctor even confirmed that he remembers the ADVENTURES just NOT Clara herself...
I love River with Twelve so much because I feel he realized how selfish he was when he was Eleven when it came to River. No hate on Eleven, he clearly did care about River, but because of how care free and purposefully forgetful he could be, Eleven seemed to treat their relationship more like a chore. He knew what was going to happen, so he kept his distance, not understanding how that would make River feel. Twelve was the stage in the Doctor's life when he finally broke that wall down and gave his wife the best last years of her life.
To be fair when river first fell in love with the doctor she killed him so it could have been worse
@@AndereundIch Hahahaha you're right about that!
@@AndereundIch well the first time the doctor met River she sacrifice herself for him. He might subconsciously be pushing her away as well afraid to get too attached to someone he knows will die
@@Kibatsume1 We dont get to see that. Not a hint of that. The reason he had distance to Amy and Rorry from time to time because he didnt want them to fade away, something he isn't afraid of with River.
When He Said 24 Years. My Heart. Best Plot Twist.
His reaction earlier in the episode when she’s yelling about how he doesn’t love her back and then the very last moment he looks at her the same way she looks at him is so sweet and you can see that he absolutely does love her. The two of them together is one of my most favourite couples ever.
That sobbing gasp she makes when he tells her how long never fails to make me cry
And then the “they lived happily ever after” blowing away to dust bit by bit
They lived happily ever after
They lived happily
Happily
Just the dark
I can’t handle this
Now that's the clip!
Such a good resolution to their story. River's whole arc works fantastically. I wished we could have had at least one more story with River and the 10th Doctor (I thought she would have made a great companion for Planet of the Dead) but it was a real challenge to give their relationship that eternal aspect that it's portrayed and the show did it marvellously.
Plus the "24 years" thing leaves the door slightly ajar for another appearance from River at some point.
lepermessiah998 she ages backwards which means that everything that happened with river over the course of David tenant and Matt smith was the 24 years... she is actually gone, a circle complete.
No, I think they should end it here
lepermessiah998 I
lepermessiah998 oops that was an accident :/
River song alongside jack will always be my favourite companion!!!
I think the last series of Torchwood was so bad that it effectively killed that series.
that would have made an awesome spin off
Now if we ever saw River meet Jack, LOL, can you imagine how the poor Doctor would take to that???
River was my favourite companion, sad to see her leave. But what a great time she and the doctor had together.
I just rewatched this episode and this moment was every bit as beautiful as I remember. Capaldi and Kingston putting on award-worthy performances. This was the moment _I_ fell in love with #12.
I still love that he’s like “this is our last night together so lets make this 24 years count” now from him thats to commitment seeing how he always hates staying in one spot for a day let alone 24 years
2:56 And there's the smug little smile.
River: how long is a night on Darillium?
12: .. 24 years.
Me: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Fozzie Bear? Is it you?
For 24 years, they laughed. They cried. They talked about Amy and Rory. They loved.
in different time line in the depth of infinite multiverse blanket there is a thread where the Ponds, Doctor and River have a nice Christmas feast together.
@@jalpat2272 oh it would be so good for them!
24 years,a couple of time traveler’s and a time machine…they are together in every second of eternity
The sonic screwdriver is a bootstrap paradox in River's case. The Doctor gave her the screwdriver for 10 to save her, but then he knew to give her the screwdriver, because that's how 10 saved her.
Why do you think they made the twelve doctor teach us the concept of that
Jesus give people a term and they will over use it. 10 came before 12. he has the memories of that regeneration. he created the screwdriver from his memories of the event of the past.
Rivers time line runs in reverse to his. She is a younger River when we see her with 12 than the river we see her with 10. the older doctor gives the younger River the screwdriver and off screen tells her basically, "You must not lose this. Your life will depend on it one day because spoilers."
She does as she is told and thus an object passes from his timeline to hers so that she can give his younger self an object he will need.
@@matthewosborne8384 10 saved River with the screwdriver because 12 gave her the screwdriver. But 12 knows how to save River, because he remembers saving River with screwdriver. Who came up with the solution: 10 or 12?
@@mac1991seth 11 more than likely
Also rivers death is a fixed point in history. Her dying does not change. No different to how the doctor save himself from his own death.
"When the wind stands fair and the night is perfect, when you least expect it, but always when you need it the most... There is a Song"
What a scene! A brilliant way to tie up River's story, and the fact that this COULD be the last time we see her, as we follow The Doctor in his lives, not River. The Emotions really kick in with this scene, and River and Twelve are such a good pair. I will always cherish this episode as being one of the best Christmas specials :)
I think the episode made it pretty clear that this WAS River's last episode, given that she only knows the Doctor's faces up to 11, and ends on Darillium
Stephen Moffat's most brilliant addition to Doctor Who. Watching this relationship progress was easily one of the most beautiful things in television.
Moments like this are why Capaldi is my favorite Doctor.
The music in this scene always gives me a lump in my throat. It’s so beautiful, sad, hopefull, perfect. We miss you, Murray Gold.
Never noticed this until now, but just look at 12’s face at the 2:35 mark. Look at how sad and how hard he is trying to hold back his emotions, at the thought that this is the last time he gets with River before the library.
The extreme end of trying to hold back crying outright. River did say that he cried that night. Capaldi's acting is extremely fantastic right at this moment.
Peter Capaldi is the best actor to ever play The Doctor. I love each incarnation, but the subtlety he displays is beyond measure.
I'll miss him. But I eagerly anticipate Jodi Whittiker.
can't handle the "new" Dr WHO. she can't act even a little bit need to get rid of her in a hurry
Well, that went south quickly. Sorry.
She is so bad, and the writing is even worse.
This aged well
@@CrystalFox_64 Quite funny actually, you can see a metric crapton of videos on YT with 9-10-11-12 .. but its almost impossible to find anything with 13.
That kind of shows how bad they f'd up in the story writing, no real good moments.
Lucky number 13 eh?
Love the subtle "Sadman in a Box" in the background
Gave me chills
Yeah, that was awesome - also, I might just be imagining it, but later in the scene the music sounds a little bit "Melody Pond" from Series 6.
she's Amy's daughter, after all. (it's also the "young Amelia" theme from s5)
"The towers sang and you cried...you wouldn't tell me why..."
Chris Chibnall.
THIS how you make Doctor Who heartwarming.
The Doctor says "When the wind stands fair" when describing the song, the same words River uses at the end of The Forest of the Dead when describing a day when nobody dies. That's remarkable attention to detail as I can't imagine it's a coincidence. It also neatly ties the end of this story to River's first appearance as it would suggest she is echoing the Doctor's words.
Capaldi's Doctor and River had such amazing chemistry; shame they only got the one story.
When you need it the most there is a Song! ~The Doctor
And then it dawned on me every time he needed her she was there... His River Song!
And as always she was right. Just as she lost hope he gave that smug little smile and sprung the loophole on her making everything alright and giving her, according to her definition her Happily ever After.
That gasp at 3:07 is THE BEST EVER. So much emotion in that one instant, captured by that gasp.
I always thought that this was the most beautiful and heartbreaking scene I have ever seen in doctor Who. I just realized that his line is "when you least expect it but always need it the most there is a 'Song'". It is even more of an I love you then I first realized.
I've always liked the relationship between The Doctor and River Song. It's felt the most genuine and fun out of all his companions.
"When you need it the most , there is a Song"
- River Song : the one person more than any that The Doctor loves and needs ❤
this is my canon ending to Doctor Who
0:02 checking out the fanfics, i see...
as soon as he said 24 Yrs. i just started fist pumping. love this ep.