SkyWatcher EQ6-R Pro vs ZWO AM5 | German Equatorial VS Harmonic Drive Telescope Mount
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2023
- At one point, astrophotographers - including myself - will experience “aperture fever” and yearn for telescope mounts that can support larger, heavier telescopes than the typical beginner mount limit of about 12kg (26 lbs). This video is intended for those who are looking for such an “advanced” or “future-proof” mount for astrophotography. In recent years, there has been an emergence of harmonic drive mounts and hybrid mounts alongside classic equatorial mounts, providing astrophotographers with more options to choose from. However, this abundance of options can make it difficult to select the “right” telescope mount. In this video, I try to explain in a lighthearted way the pros and cons of choosing a classic German equatorial mount like the SkyWatcher EQ6-R Pro over a Harmonic Drive Mount like the popular ZWO AM5. I share some honest, personal experiences I had with both mounts so far.
You can find my full review of advanced astrophotography mounts in the 20 kg (45 lb) payload capacity range here: bit.ly/41m9LMi
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Enjoyed the video! An additional aspect for people who may be contemplating a harmonic drive mount is that the native tracking error is both complex and large when compared to GEMs. My AM5 has a native periodic error ranging from 14 to 21 arcsec which is huge compared to my old A-P Mach1GTO which was around 5 arcsec, and absolutely monstrous compared to my current Mach2GTO where the Renishaw encoders reduce native PE to 0.25 arcsec. The error also changes rapidly over time so use traditional PEC doesn't work well, nor does the Predictive PEC in PHD2. You do have to guide the AM5 with quite a short sampling interval (1-2 sec) to achieve good performance, which is about 0.6 arcsec guided and the main reason I use it primarily for focal lengths under about 750mm.
The reason for the interference with the altitude adjuster lever on your EQ-6R is that the mount ordinarily is oriented with a tripod leg pointing north (and under the counterweight bar), which provides more support in that direction as GEMs are not balanced over the center of the tripod, and the mount is more prone to tipping in the forward direction. More of an issue if you have lots of weight on the counterweight bar, I often have 20-25 kg on it for my larger scopes. This would place the lever between the two rear tripod legs.
I'm quite happy with my EQ6R-pro mount.
With a very precise polar alignment, i've achieved amazing guiding numbers (0.20"-0.40" RMS) all night. Its disadvantage compared to the AM5 is portability and a drastic reduction in weight, which in my opinion is not a decisive reason for an urgent migration, yet. We are talking about both great mounts.
Great job Wido. Your reviews are enlightening and entertaining. Thanks for your input. It looks like you will have clear skies to enjoy tonight.
Thanks!
Great video WIdo, love your enthusiasm talking about your mounts.
Thanks for sharing your personal experience and insights.
HIlarious! Loved this video and very informative, I'm still trying to decide which mount to go with but I really enjoyed this!
Great video Wido. Entertaining too! I have an Orion Atlas Pro mount (rebranded HEQ6 R Pro I believe). Heavy but sturdy. No tracking issues with wind. Quiet operation with the belt drive. When I use my C8 scope (with a WO ZenithStar 61 for guiding) the entire image train is 26 lbs. I was a bit worried about the weight but the mount tracks wonderfully (less than O.5” RMS). I am still paranoid about the weight, as I usually use my 110 and 61mm refractors more often (which are considerably lighter). If I needed to buy another mount, I’d buy the same one. I really like that the heavy mount is wind proof! Dr B from Manitoba, Canada 🇨🇦
Tx for sharing your experiences, Dr. B!
We bought the DC Right Angle Coiled Power Cable 2.1mm x 5.5mm Male to Female Adapter Extension Cord for 12V which eliminated the power cord issues on our am5. Clear skies
this is awesome. i still only own a startracker and dont know if I'll ever get a goto mount, but I love how honest this video is!
Great video Wido and quite entertaining! Yeah I think both mounts are great, I have the Atlas Pro which is the Alt-AZ EQ6R, and love it. Iwill probably get the AM5 or even AM3 when I get a new mount mainly because I should be retired at that point and we are talking about moving to a location where I most likely will not have an Astro shed. So I will be going for smaller aperture and lighter setup. Cheers Kurt
Thanks Wido. Excellent vid. I'm considering the am5 for my 8se, but will mount it to the avx tripod for stability.
Thank you for comparsion!
I like both mounts, but I wouldn't trade my EQ6-Ri for one.
Yeah no way…I’m seeing some unhappy AM5 users and the EQ6 is just to good under all conditions I’ll wait for the next iteration 😀
I use press stick to hold my cables in place. It does seem a bit crazy to me that we pay all this money for mounts etc, but they come with connections which so easily disconnect - the whole point is that they should be able to move throughout the night without that loss of connection.
One thing I've had in my mind about these new generation of harmonic drive mounts - the way they work is by constantly flexing a thin steel cup. I wonder about how that holds up against metal fatigue and work hardening over the years. Not to mention the big temperature cycles astro gear goes through. I wouldn't be surprised if that becomes a big issue maybe about 5 years from now. Yes, material design and material choice has been looked at for sure. Do we know for sure what materials ZWO is using, and if they are doing this on the cheap? I can't get away from worrying about that thin-walled flex spline being constantly under extensive elastic deformation.
Funny but instructive video as usual. I really loved that one. Huh, yeah, the EQ6 R PRO is heavy. However, sub arc second tracking out of the box is just awesome
I had a similar issue with the power input on my AM5, where the power cable may lose a strong connection and cause the mount to briefly or entirely lose power. This was annoying when tracking or slewing and the mount would just lose power. I found that sticking a small piece of aluminum foil into my power cable barrel jack solved this.
The 3D printed declination knob is a must!
Wido if at all possible get your EQ6R on a pier and then once polar aligned it will need very little if any adjustment, I have had this mount for 4 years now and its still going strong.
I'll do that when I turn 50 😆
Hi Wildo! Maybe use the old trick of hanging something heavy from the top/underside of the tripod, to make it more stable? Awesome vid as always my friend! Thanks!
Wes, Liverpool UK
Nice video Wido, I have about the same experience, my EQ-6Rpro is a workhorse built like a tank. Never had an issue and guiding is mostly around 0.4 to 0.6 even at 2000mm.
The only thing I hate at the EQ-6Rpro is that some parts like screws and the counterweight bar rust/oxidate, Skywatcher should have made this in stainless steel.
I tried an AM5, but the littlest wind made it shake, but it's o so quiet when slewing and very easy to handle due to its light weight but that is also its disadvantage, also ofcourse is the ridiculous high price and that it comes without a counterweight or shaft, all extra to buy. But these little strainwave mounts are interesting to take on holiday
I am curious for the next series strainwave mounts where all problems will be solved
So for now I keep working with my workhorse
Good video. I wonder how you going to use the Asiair plus? Post a video about that with you and the other guy 😂
Tx! It's on my todolist 😆
My AM5 is a forced response to the chronic back problem created by my EQ6 (which I've had for 20 years). My EQ6 is the classic model, but has the rail kit for easy PA, new knobs, a synscan goto upgrade (motors and controller board) and has been a great and reliable friend. The AM5 is much easier to set up and guides better in the absence of wind. It needs a better tripod than that TC40 if you're contemplating any payload (in my case the PE200 pier extension on the EQ6's tripod carries the AM5 with an EON 130 APO). With a good tripod the wind effects are managed to the point that the AM5 guides roughly as well as the EQ6 does in windy conditions. The TC40 comes into its own with lighter portable rigs. I use a PE160 extension & AM3 on mine to carry a little FF80 astrograph.
thanks for sharing your experiences!
Love my Eq6. I use it as a semi permanent setup outside, with an 8" Newtonian. Rarely moves, but sure no problem if I'm going to an event. Guiding is accurate and consistent at .40 -.60. Never an issue. A true classic workhorse. The AM5 certainly punches above its weight class, but for me not needing that portability, it misses the mark.
I’m 100% on board with you and my new EQ6R pro, currently unable to get under 1.5 arc seconds but I’ll get there. For portability I have EQM-35 that works perfectly for wide sky images.
Yes to this.
I liked my EQ6 R Pro so much...I got a second one!
i love this mount plus it keeps me going to the weight room on the rare occasion I go to a remote location.😅
Your scope looks brilant
This was my thought process when buying my EQ6-R, the AM5 looks great, and using strain wave gearing is certainly interesting, but not needing to move my mount further than 10m at a time, I don't need the portability.
Nice comparison of these great mounts, Wido! Or is this Wido? Hmmmm... 🤣 Thanks so much as always for the great reviews!
Great video! There’s no way I could move that big mount around. I have the AM5 and am extremely happy with it (along with the ASIAIR, so no meridian issues) and it’s guiding accuracy.
Fun video, however something should be mentioned: harmonic drives are great for their portability, but not for their accuracy.. Most much much cheaper worm gear mounts have probably a much better accuracy than most harmonic gears. It's not only gusts of wind that could be causing tracking issues, because the mount or tripod is so light. Many people don't really understand how strain wave gears work, so they often overlook the main issue at hand. For their functionality, they contain a flex-spline, which the name already flexes.. it's soft! This may not be an issue for most robotics-usage where strain wave gears are very popular and have been used for decades, however it can be when accuracy is required, like in astrophotography. This is the reason why there is no PPEC that could correct the periodic error, as the errors are actually not really periodic as they can and will change regularly. Depending on the slope of the periodic error (not the overall width) this may not be an issue at shorter focal lengths but even ZWO recommends to keep the FL at 900mm for the AM5, while the load capacity could be handling scopes with much longer focal length. If the slope is too steep it may be difficult to guide the mount properly with long focal lengths and/or cameras with small pixels. If you're lucky the error will be in both, RA and DEC, so stars will still look round, but much bigger than they should (but most people won't notice this, as the errors are in both axis). Just look at the guiding-graphs of random users online and you will see that every once in a while they see spikes on either (or both) axis.
And the "zero backlash" that they are marketed with is also a bit of an issue.. yes the strain wave gears themselves may have no backlash, but they're still connected via a belt drive, and that's a point where backlash may actually be introduced if that connection is not properly set up. Similar like on your EQ6-R. And I won't start talking about quality control of Skywatcher. I used to have an Az-EQ6 in 2016 that had some of the press-fitted bearings hammered in with scratch-marks and metal shavings inside (yes, I had it completely open as i replaced some of the worm gear bearings with better ones). Your lose belt does not surprise me at all. I sold that mount after a few months to get an Avalon, which I still own (next to others).
Coming back to the AM5 Those mounts are great for their portability no doubt, but as mentioned before, definitely not for getting constant accuracy.. For any fixed setup, do yourself a favor and get a sturdy mount. If you need to be portable and don't have too long of a focal length, then harmonic mounts can be a good option, but please understand each use-case and whether the mount fits the needs. You would also not get a 10-micron GM4000 HPS II for a portable setup. ;)
My am5 has sub-arcsecond accuracy when taking multiminute exposures. Not as good as my eq6rpro but close.
Hey Wido, great video. Nice schizophrenic presentation format! Just wanted to say that I agree completely with your comments, but want to point out that depending on what you are comparing the AM5 mount with, you will likely conclude differently. For instance, I upgraded from a AZ-GTi mount to AM5 and I find the wind resistance to be remarkably stable! And the AM5 is superior in every-way; but it better be for 5x the price!!! Comparing it to the EQ6-R Pro, you reach some slightly different conclusions. Perspective is always important, isn't it? Best regards from the Astrophotography Japan channel.
Great video! Mind me asking, is anyone using the AM5 in an observatory setup?
Great video, Wido, thanks! Aside from wind gusts, did you have any problems guiding when imaging at long focal lengths? I understand that ZWO does not recommend using for DSOs at more than 900mm focal length, which is far less than your C8 provides! I'd welcome any thoughts you have. Thanks and clear skies, Matt
I think the ZWO recommendation is sound. I'm at 1420mm with my .7 reducer and 8" edge hd. I used it successfully with low wind velocity at .6 to .8 arcsecond accuracy. It is doable but I'd recommend using an extra counterweight or tripod as said in the video at >1000mm FL. Cheers.
@@AstroForumSpace Thanks, Wido!
It's a bizarre reccomendation, what's focal length got to do with tracking accuracy? it's the combination of focal length and pixel size that's important, I get 0.4rms with a C8 on the Am5, which is enough for my resolution
Great video!! Just purchased an Explore Scientific 152mm graphite tube. Which mount would you recommend?
If your focal length is
Funny and informative. Both Widos have strong points for their preferences.
lol 😆
AM5. I've owned both. Never going back.
I hated my EQ6R Pro until recently when the board burned up for the 2nd time. Skywatcher support kept insisting it was my power source. Well I still say the power source was and is fine. When they sent me the last computer board inside they also sent the white panel that has the switch and the plugs on it. Ever since I used that new white panel the power light on the mount doesn't blink and the mount seem to work better than ever. I think there was a bad connection between the outside and inside of the panel where the power plug goes. Even the first night out the power light blinked when it slewed. But since I installed the latest computer board it hasn't blinked once.
A few years ago I was thinking, do I have to make my own mount harmonic drive eq mount (and perhaps make my own company) because there was no one to buy. The thing is the gear reduction and weight limitations and periodic errors are still not good enough. But then again I don't even own a telescope.
One reason I did not buy the AM5 was the need for short guide exposures (e.g., 2 seconds or shorter). I did buy an EQ6RPro and frequently use 4 or even 5-second exposures with my OAG (ASI174mm mini camera) to get enough signal for reliable guiding. Have you found that the AM5 actually requires short guiding exposures? Thanks in advance.
I always guide at 1 or 2 seconds and never experience any issues. But perhaps that's because I'm guiding at a shorter focal length, I don't use oag.
Having had 2 EQ6-Rs and now an AM5, I've found the AM5 consistently tracks better than the EQ6-R, even with a big payload like a C8. The EQ6-R isn't far behind, and it's half the price, so if you're on a budget then the EQ-6 will do, however you'll want somewhere to set it up permanently after you get tired of lugging that mass around. The AM5 is so much better for anyone who has to setup their gear before a session.
Interesting... my EQ6-R Pro outperforms my AM5. Not by much, about 0.2 arcsecond difference.
Hi! I move recently there and seeing your videos I wanted to ask you how are you dealing with CL. Around where i live is too high. I want to start investing into this but I don't know if the amount of exposure time i will get makes it worth
Thanks and great videos!!
I think folks at 52 degrees latitude (NL, UK, Canada etc.) all suffer from clouds. You can deal with it by taking a long walk, read about astronomy and astrophotography, get in touch with your friends and family, and (re)process your astropictures :-).
What's the guiding like on the AM5?
Sub-arcsecond when using multistar autoguiding and low wind velocity. Check my other video: czcams.com/video/At9M0TdiK9Y/video.html
I’m new to this hobby and just purchased my EQ6r pro for my Zenith star 61 (over kill for now) I have no idea how people get under 1.5…advice please…sigh
Do you have guiding gear? astroforumspace.com/selecting-a-guide-scope-and-autoguiding-camera-for-astrophotography/
6:32 or you can pur a balalst to the net at the base of the mount to lower its ceter of gravity.
True! But that negates the benefit of having a lightweight mount 🤔. Clear skies!
@@AstroForumSpace I think there is a big difference if the mount is heavy or I can make it heavy on the spot.
funny vid entertaining
:-D
I was long thinking about a new mount. And also about the AM-5. This mount could be a bargain but is also very expensive. So i was looking in 2nd hand market and found a more or less new AZ-EQ6-PRO for half the money compared to the AM-5. So i purchased this thing. a heavy and rigid thing. The stand will then be a mobile pier construction named S130 from euro EMC. Heavy and much much more stable than all wooden tripods together ;-) On the mount there will be a EHD-800 (with and without hyperstar) or a TV NP-101 or TS-SHD 101/f11 (comming in end of june) for sun and planet observing.
Now I'm looking for good weather to test all these things. But at the moment the forecast seems not so ideal for the next days.. so please be patient.
Hope it works out 💪!