Miguel is LYING | Across the Spider-Verse Theory
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2023
- Canon Events seem suspiciously inconsistent... are they even real?
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Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse has a LOT for us to unpack. From Miles Morales, to Miguel O'Hara, and even to Hobie Brown, this movie is riddled with questions. Can we answer all of them to finally figure out the true story behind the Spider-Verse series?
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#acrossthespiderverse #milesmorales #spiderman #miguelohara #hobiebrown #hobartbrown #remgames #sony #marvel #animated #spiderverse - Krátké a kreslené filmy
The first sign of Miguel not having a Spider-Sense is actually much earlier in the movie, during the Renaissance Vulture fight. When he is talking to Gwen about being able to handle the Vulture, Gwen says "knock yourself out". Miguel is obviously confused, and doesn't sense the Vulture revving up to attack him. We don't see the signature squiggly lines around his head, or see any change in his body language.
Very true!
But also Gwen doesn't notice miles when he's literally behind him so id argue it's not that matter of fact
@@jjrobotnikeh tbf she didn’t expect it and miles made himself very obvious by yelling her name
@@jjrobotnik At this point, Gwen doesn't see Miles as a threat, since she has been thinking about him for so long in a positive way. She loves him so much that her spider-sense can't sense him. Spider-Sense is used to detect foreign threats, or other spider-people. These are large constants in almost every Spider-person's Spider-sense, and also explains why Gwen doesn't notice miles.
That is exactly what I was thinking, in that moment as well as a bit later on when we see his fangs, personally I still think he’s one of those anti Spider-Man vampires, moralin or something
Has no one bought up the fact that Miguel’s daughter could’ve been that universe’s spider man, which is why when he stepped in for his dead self it prevented the canon event of “uncle Ben figure dying” leading to that universe’s destruction
That’s a good theory
Side note if kingpin got what he wanted then miles and everyone else would have ceased to exist, people going to other dimensions messes with the stability of things. But would Spot have still been a thing since he was involved with the collider
Makes sense to me.
Ooooo good theory
@@interviolet6675 I don't think so, as he wouldn't even BE Spot if Kingpin got what he wanted.
Miguel isn't lying, his just wrong, his consumed with guilt and over reacting. But you are right breaking Canon doesn't break the Universe, what breaks the universe are incursions. You gained a subscriber.
No, it's not incursions. If it had been, Miles Universe, Earth 1610 should have been destroyed when Peter B , Gwen and other Spiderman changed so many thing in ITSV.
yup
@@sakshii20 for an incursion to occur a person must try to take the place of their Variant in their variants universe. Miguel was living in the place of a dead Miguel. Or like with Dr. Strange, Dream Walking in their Variant’s body. You’re right simply visiting another universe isn’t a problem.
More like Miguel's universe was wiped from existence when Kingpin fired up that machine in the first film. Miguel was saved due to Peter's Spider-Human hybrid DNA getting in there.
@@dustinmaxwell259huh
IMO, the real question is whether or not Miguel realises that the glitches are caused by multiversal incursions, and is lying about it, or if he sincerely believes that they are a result of non-canon events. In other words, is he a secret villain, or a (very) misguided hero?
That’s a VERY big question that we will most likely not be able to answer, but we try to give multiple explanations in the next video!
He’s been set up for a ‘what have I done!!’ Moment in the next film for sure.
Almost invariably a misguided hero, I think. There's probably a secret "real" villain of the Spiderverse we haven't seen yet, maybe the Miguel who "Died" or something along those lines.
@@SisterRosesince we see Peter and MJ’s wedding is a canon event I’m personally thinking it’s Mephesto cause he caused OMD and other things that would interfere with so called “canon events”
@@SisterRose isn't Spot already the main villain though?
Maybe Miguel got so traumatized by what happened to him so he got obsessed with controlling "canon events" in the multiverse because he doesn't want to see it happen again. That's what I think.
Facts he’s not a bad guy, my favorite is miles but I don’t hate Miguel, he lost his daughter twice and is still somewhat a good guy. He’s just blinded he can’t see things like miles, he doesn’t even try cause he’s so scared to take the chance
Ditto. He thinks he caused the destruction. He doesn't know it was Kingpin's doing. Maybe he'll finally get that family in the end.
@@dustinmaxwell259agreed, I hope he gets a happy ending because he is so sad
@@GladwinAbel He only lost his daughter once. In *his* original universe he didnt have a family, but in the universe he replaced himself in he did. Also, if I remember it right, he didnt stay there for long, maybe a month or two until it broke apart
@@milkii_owo In his original universe he had a family.
That's why he went to replace the dead version of himself and all.
Gwen doesn't recognize Miguel's spiderman suit as a spiderman suit when she first meets him. She was being jokey calling him blue panther and such but I think she genuinely didn't recognize him as a spiderman. And spider-people are supposed to be able to sense each other on site. Case closed.
But also I think Miguel blames himself for failures easily and has a lot of self hatred which lead him to believe it was his fault that universe collapsed. I don't think he's lying. Just wrong.
I wouldn’t say case closed. Just because he isn’t detected by spidey sense immediately, doesn’t mean he isnt a Spider-Man. It could simply be because of the manually modified, instead of organically modified genes. We don’t know for certain thought
Miguel doesn't have a spider sense and the only way spider people know each other is because of the spidey sense
Gwen seems to have a special link with Miles but she also sensed the other spider-people in ITSV. That said, I think the spider-person that is being sensed has to also have the sense.
spidermna 2099 is'nt the traditinal spiderman, yall forget the real spiderman existed in his dimension, so the actual spiderman already has his canon events, miguel is just a guy who replictad spidermans powers and has adopted his name, but he is'nt actually a real spiderman in the peter parker sense
@@MiyaMam948yeah
I don't think Miguel is lying. I think he doesn't know. He was in such an emotional state that he clined in the nearest explanation, the canon events, and never questioned it
And because of that, now other people have to suffer for his false convictions.
He is misinformed
@@ratsmans5644 he can’t really be misinformed because he was the one who came up with the theory.
@@t-rexcellentreviews1663 the info is the bad stuff making bad theories is my poont
Yeah I think he a good guy. He just might be wrong in his thinking
I'd argue Miguel does NOT have spider-sense, indicated by his fight with the Renaissance-Vulture. If he had a spider-sense, he would've been able to at least somewhat anticipate Vulture's blast (the "Knock yourself out" bit with Gwen) and was instead it dead-on because he couldn't anticipate the attack
he doesn't have it. It's common knowledge (amongst Spider-Man fans); he has enhanced sight, smell, and hearing instead.
Yea he's more of a human spider then he is q spiderman he has vemon in his fangs that can paralize people he has retracting claws to climb on walls and super human senses and organic webbing
@@bradwoods371 Not common knowledge among Spider-man fans but Spider-man 2099 fans.
Yeah
@@hat_sauce3846the only thing I knew about Spider-Man 2099 before the movie was his real name and that's about it
I do think Miguel is wrong and we're supposed to be able to figure that out, but I don't think he's lying. I think he is genuinely mistaken about canon events and what causes universes to become unstable. He's just too traumatized and too convinced he's correct to consider any other possibilities.
And maybe through Miles’ actions he will start to see the other possibilities
@@matthewisguy7336 He will. Gwen saw that it's all possible through her dad stepping down as a captain and her universe not imploding. So Miles will convince Miguel.
Lying to yourself is still lying and for all we know Miguel messing with his canon had nothing to do with why his adopted universe broke apart, sometimes things just break, even universes.
@@t-rexcellentreviews1663 Exactly. I don’t believe he’s the reason why his family died, it was something else that did his former universe in.
Miguel isn’t at fault for it, but he believes he is. Miles will show him that he wasn’t responsible for what happened and that he can be a hero again.
Correct. It’s easier for Miguel to accept that he has to lose his daughter instead of him failing to save her.
The writers made it so Miguel is wrong whether they meant to or not. He explains how canon events need to happen and changes are anomalies that shouldn’t exist. Miguel explained how miles shouldn’t have become Spider-Man which lead to spot being created which makes spot and everything he does anomalies. And we see that Jeff is going to die because Spot kills him. So Jeff’s death should be an anomaly and Miguel should be trying to help miles save his dad instead of trying to make sure Jeff dies because his death isn’t a canon event
A hundred times this
@@nicholasfloyd1289 Tip for life: Never "re-tell" to someone what "they are supposed to mean", you just get people to hate you.
Trust, they're a top-tier writing team. I say this as a writer and cinephile, if that matters at all. But even if it doesn't, every thing is intentional when it comes to film in particular because they're limited on time. Everything needs to serve a purpose, and a writing/direction/production team at this level is going to make sure not to waste anything. So, they meant for him to be wrong, in part because (as they said) Miguel represents the part of the fandom who feel that Miles shouldn't exist. He's speaking for them. So, even though it doesn't make sense when you really think about it and start to pick it apart, he's convinced. That's the fandom. And it's intentional.
@@lowgpu1687simplifications and paraphrasing: guess everybody hates me now.
Because there's literally no point in doing so. I remember quite a few times in school, there would be a kid who always "simplified" what someone said, it pissed everyone off. My dad also had a boss who did the same, and nobody liked him because of it.
Why "simplify" what they say when you already know what they mean? There's no point, it just looks very pretentious.@@nicholasfloyd1289
To be fair, Miguel could be a Tarantula Man, as tarantulas have more prominent fangs and have claws instead of sticking to walls.
His fangs paralyze and he uses his claws to climb. He doesn't have a spidey sense, it's in his comic.
Another important detail is Peter b Parker only had a child simply because he was inspired by miles. Peter b changed as a person thanks to miles and would have been different if he didn’t met him but also it doesn’t effect his world even tho may Parker his daughter is an anomaly
How is she an anomaly?
@@derrickdaniels3955without an outside influence Mayday wouldn’t exist
@@Gamfluenthe wasnt saying its a bad thing
Not only that, but Mayday is LITERALLY another "Spiderman," with powers and everything, and even gets a suit when she's older. She's Peter's daughter in some of the comics too, meaning that yes, a world CAN have more than one Spiderman.
@@Gamfluent From the explanations we get in the movie Anomalies nearly always lead to breaks in canon, and a universe's events being majorly influenced by forces from other universes are what really causes the collapse, with canon events being ways to identify things that should not be changed as to not lead to this disruptions that cause collapses. What's weird is Miles universe practically bent over backwards to correct itself for him and his existence. The problem for this comes from the fact that Miles' spider ending up in the wrong universe, caused that universe's spider bite to never happen and no spider-man to exist, which by all definition should be a canon event, which proves that canon events aren't the full story to what causes universes to collapse. Miles' own universe seemingly gave him 2 Uncle Ben esque incidents. He felt responsible for Peter's death but also being completely unable to prevent it, and Peter being the one to inspire Miles to become Spider-man ; and while that Peter never directly gives the great power speech to Miles, we know Miles knows the speech from the comics which from all we know about his universe, Peter as Spider-man probably helped write while embelishing the details of his actual life so no one could learn his secret identity. He then also lost Uncle Aaron, which practically serves the same purpose as Uncle Ben's death, but then this would basically be a canon event happening twice to Miles, which should also disrupt the canon. Not to mention Mile's journey as Spider-man would've never even been possible if not for the influence of those from outside his own reality, which seems really weird since that should also disrupt the canon of Spider-man. We know there is some merit to Miguel saying that breaking canon leads to universes collapsing since we see it happen in the movie twice, but Miles' very existence and his reality's continued existence, as well as the continued existence of Earth-42's universe, should disprove that as both had their timelines wildly altered by other universes either pulling stuff out of them, or stuff from other universes being pulled into them, which by all means should be equivalent to a disruption of the canon, prove that this theory of canon events is incomplete at best.
Put simply there are too many contradictions for Miguel to be 100% correct in his understanding and explanation, but there is also still proof that some of it is right.
I’ve been very suspicious of Miguel since I heard him explain that he coincidentally found out that another version of himself died and had a family…it seemed more like he was actively searching for that universe. And I think there was a bit more…”involvement” in how that version of himself died. In a lot of ways it very eerily mirrors the kingpins motives in the first movie. Maybe this is our first clue on who this version of Miguel really is?
He didn’t really “coincidentally” find a version he just said he found a version
oooh that is a good one... he is his universes kingpin. I too wondered why he was looking at other universes. Was he looking for a family or was he just looking out of curiosity or for another reason.
So we all know that Miles Morales is not a anomaly But he did make some mistakes so but still Miguel O’Hara is wrong. I think he should be tarantula man instead of Spider-Man.
My theory for what happened to the Dead Miguel universe was that if he was murdered, his death would have encouraged further investigation, which wouldn't happen if he's still alive. Iirc, Miguel worked for Alchemax, so that investigation was perhaps *supposed* to stop a Collider Event but never happened because Miguel was alive and well.
Too busy playing house, 2099 missed the true causes behind the world melting.
I really like this
I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding spider sense as a power, it's not a sense used to detect people or find out where they are, it alerts spiderman to oncoming danger and allows him to react faster. Miguel doesn't have a spider sense in the comics he just has incredible reflexes
This movie spawned so many new Spider-Man fans who haven’t read the comics. They think Miguel isn’t who he say he is, simply because he doesn’t have spider senses. Despite also not having it in the comics and being a good guy.
I do agree that there’s something fishy about the spider society. We have to wait until the third movie to fully see the truth.
@@LoverBoyZah What do you think is fishy about the spider society?
I dont think miguel is the actual 2099. Too many differences power wise. He could have gotten his dna spliced with the actual spider man 2099 (somehow), and thats why he doesnt have the same powers. Dude could be confusing himself into believing hes a spider man
@@barbararab6390Miguel is Spider-Man 2099. His powers are different because he wasn't bitten by a radioactive spider. His genetic code was spliced with spider DNA. I don't know why they gave him red energy webs. He was the first Spider-Man to have organic webbing.
@@dylanlewis5113 the red webbing is due to his futuristic exosuit. It's why miles could absorb some of it.
Don't know if this is related. Miguel gets triggered whenever someone questions him being Spider-Man. And when Gwen inquires if Miles could actually be an anomaly, Miguel just deflects it by saying "You want to find out?".
3:09 he also didn't sense the villan from the begining of the movie when he charged at him from behind, and got hit as Gwen moved out of the way.
Good point!
@@RemGamesyour completley wrong on so many levels and you did not do enough research for this video, you should of noticed this easily
@@bk5meal834chiiiill lmfao
@@number420dad i mean, they're not wrong. the dude most likely hasn't read Miguel's comics, whuch have clearly stated all the things he mentioned, miguel doesn't have spider sense and tge likes, and tgat is stated, however, he has enhanced hearing, smell and sight, which aid him differently.
No hate, but you kinda got it a bit wrong when you said Event ASM-90 was meant to imply an ordering system.
It's actually called ASM-90 because it's an event from Amazing Spider-Man Issue 90.
Love your channel btw
Thanks! This is however, still a type of ordering system. If it refers to issue 90 (which I didn’t realize until your comment) that’s still an ordering system in itself
@@RemGames Oh yeah. Didn't really think about that... huh. Oh well, still glad to be helpful in a sense.
Keep up the good work, mate. 👍
@@RemGames When Gwen was notified that she broke the canon event, you can see ASM-90 at the top-left of the screen.
I feel like if Miguel's cannon event theory was right the captain would have started to glitch and disappear since his death was pav's 'cannon' event but he didn't. I'd say that's pretty solid evidence to say Miguel's view on cannon events are skewed.
Can't wait for the 3rd movie to tell us/ confirm or debunk the community theory's!
another proof that Miguel might not have Spidey sense is the "knock yourself out" part, he couldn't sense Vulture approaching him
he doesnt its pretty much common knowledge he has hightened sight smell and hearing to make up for it
@@jensentrap9823 yea lol
I don't think Miguel is lying, but it's more likely that he simply just doesn't understand what is going on in the multiverse as he should be more worried about INCURSIONS rather than “BREAKING THE CANON” as INCURSIONS are much worse where one or both universes colliding with one another gets destroyed.
Another point of Miguel having no spider sense could be the scene on earth 67. 67s spider sense as well as Miguels sense don't activate resulting in spiderman 67 asking: "who the hell are you?" after Miguel already told him that he was spiderman.
In the comics he doesn't have spider sense. It's his thing. He is genetically bonded to a spider so a proper half-man, half spider. He can't climb walls but has enhanced senses and organic webbing.
Miguel did say he’s been the only one keeping it all together. He doesn’t explain how he entirely does it tho.
Because he doesn’t have one, he’s lying as much to himself as he is to others around him, him constantly trying to control everything around him can also be considered breaking canon events.
This video is a canon event
Yeha
It was always supposed to happen
@@RemGames It was fate
🤓☝️
I took a canon event in the toilet.
Miguel is NOT lying... he's just wrong about the truth.
I hope that’s the case
It'd be better if the videos would say he's "wrong" instead of "lying." Lying is intentional. Lying would make Miguel a villain, not just an antagonist.
@@LadyAstarionAncuninthey do a good job making him look evil
Um 2099's webs are actually organic. And the way he makes up for his lack of spider sense is actually compensated by his accelerated vision giving him a almost 360 range of vision as well as his other heighten senses. Also his fangs are completely his own. Most people are thinking that he's shooting blood webbing, or hard light webbing, due to the way it's able to angle itself.
In the end it just feels like a lot of stretching with no concreted answer. All we can do is wait for the final movie.
For the different color of the web I just think it a style thing kinda like hobie
The colour is probably just a stylistic choice
The first part classifying Miguel as a Spider-Man is shakey, but the rest of it does have validity.
I keep hearing this theory getting passed around that the original Miguel was supposed to be the “Uncle Ben” of that universe that 928-Miguel entered. His daughter was likely supposed to be that universe’s Spider-Woman, but because 928-Miguel essentially stepped in as the replacement, it threw the whole universe out of alignment. He was the original anomaly, and it again reincorporated the trauma and PTSD he has from that ensure that something like that never happens again.
I feel like the reason why the universe Miguel replaced himself in glitched out is because he changed the cannon for a selfish reason. He didnt replace himself for the good of it but so that he could have his cake and eat it. The same thing happened when kingpin tried to force his family into his dimension everything started collapsing.
Miguel is definitely a weirder Spider. Virtually every misgiving against Miles other than the Earth 42 spider can also be applied to Miguel, like weird spider powers that other Spiders lack or being someone who is neither a varient of Peter or someone adjacent to Peter.
Although, I do think there is an error in this theory, mainly the universe destabilization.
1. There was nothing stating the universes imploding from broken canon had anything to do with the universes trying to repair the anomalies, but rather that breaking canon itself tears them apart. The way I see it based on the movie's presentation: reality is a fabric, not an organism. Pull a thread too much and you unravel it and it has no ability to heal itself. The pulling of the thread in this case is the anomaly exerting influence on the course of a universe, like say replacing yourself after the other you died. An anomaly existing is merely the start, their influence is the pull that unravels. That in mind, the Spider Society doesn't appear to make a habit of leaving Miguel's tower in Nueva York, meaning that even with hundreds of Spiders present at any given time, very few of them are exerting what would be deemed harmful influence, and the ones that are likely aren't any worse than the excess Spiders from Into the Spiderverse were on Miles's world.
2. That said, there is a potential common element to known destabilizations that it doesn't appear you've considered and may bolster your theory. In Into the Spiderverse the environmental glitches were from Kingpin's collider. In Mumbattan, you rightfully pointed out that the glitches seem to be realited to the Spot's lingering portals. So what about the imploded Nueva York? Well, both of the previous destabilization incidents were directly tied to crossing the multiverse. What if the other Nueva York was destrohed not by broken canon, but by Miguel's prototype Spider Society watch like he had at the end of Into? It could well be that a combination of trauma, rationalization, and missing information led to Miguel's theory of canon and stopped him from seeing his own tech was the real cause. That's my theory anyway.
Miguel is a variant of Miles
Miguel isn't lying because when he showed how his family died he showed Peter was there.
And when Miguel talked about the dangers of breaking the canon he referred to Peter during the incedent and Peter said "yeah". So we know he's not lying because there's eye witness accounts.
Not every antagonist is a bad guy everyone trying to prove Miles is right and Miguel is the bad guy. But in this situation there are no real clear good guys or bad guys except spot.
Think about it if he has those intense amazing holograms he and lilia make there is a slim chance he made this. Also if the spider society wasn’t formed yet why were Peter and him in the same universe
@@thespiderWow Maybe Peter B Parker was one of the first recruits
@@thatonkgau5221 but the reason Miguel started the spider society was because of that universe collapsing so that doesn’t line up
Miguel isn't lying, he just thinks its the truth. I'm betting its a misunderstanding of the situation, and that they're making assumptions based on what happened. In Beyond the Spiderverse we'll probably learn more of what actually caused the world to crumble, and its probably not as simple as just "breaking the canon."
@@lasercraft32 exactly
Also when Miguel explains the canon event of a captain dying SAVING A CHILD he literally shows the movie 'the amazing Spider-Man' as an example and captain Stacy in this film doesn't save a child
btw if Miguel's world started collapsing before he knew about cannon events why were peter parker and other spider people with wristbands there? what was the spider society doing in the multiverse before his world died?
Probably researching the multi verse and trying to find out why it was unstable, he probably thought his coming to that universe is what destroyed it. He never makes it clear if this is the 1st time a universe died like this, it probably isn't, he was probably looking into why this was happening recruited fellow spiders to help, then the universe with his daughter dies and that leads to the movie events.
Returning the strays of the multiverse
Hm, yeah, while I wouldn’t say that Miguel is necessarily lying per se, things sure just doesn’t add up with the whole "Canon Events" thing, I hope we’ll explore it more in the Next Film.
I don’t understand how Miguel explaining to Miles that his dad is going to die doesn’t automatically break the canon event. I would think that each Spider-Man has to experience that kind of catastrophic loss, plus the sudden shock of it, in person. Which is made worse by the fact that each Spider-Man was actively trying to save their person. It’s that failure that initiates growth.
Does that make sense? I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around that concept and I’m not sure it’s worth exploring or if I’m trying to go too deep with it.
Something to back your point up the only time a canon event is shown to be broken is when another spider person intervenes as shown with Pavitr Prabhakar. If Miguel just let Miles go there would be no way for him to break the canon.
when I first watched the movie and I heard Miguel say "Your the original anomaly" I immediately thought. "Isn't Miguel technically an anomaly?
I don't think he was saying that Miles being Spider-Man is on that level why 42 doesn't have a Spider-Man, but that the spider that gives them powers will only ever bite one person, and since it bit Miles, instead of someone in 42, 42 can't have a Spider-Person unless another universe loses one.
Love the video but I dont think Tony is a captain. In Age of Ultron he pointed out that Captain America was in charge and that he just paid for everything and made everyone look cool. I could be wrong though
4:37 Hey, did anyone else notice the green things attaching themselves TO Miguel's blood (and maybe DNA)? Also, this might be an unimportant detail, but Miguel seems to have red AND blue blood cells in him. Think that might be important?
Well that's a shot to keep him in check, because in the comics Miguel is tricked by his boss to get him addicted to the spiderman DNA. Which is why Miguel doesn't have normal spiderman powers. Miguel is literally mixed with spider and human DNA.
He's 50% spider DNA (from the comics).
@@theshaggs4023 He wasn't tricked to get addicted to Spider-Man DNA; he was tricked to get addicted to Rapture. The infusion of spider DNA came later when a colleague tried to take his life.
About the point of the spider bite being the most important canon event:
I think the main thing here is that the canon is fully intersected *with* the spider person. The canon is not something bound to a reality, but rather a person, so that would explain why earth 42 is fine even without a Spider-Man, or even better off without one with no possibility to break canon.
The entire idea of a “canon event” doesn’t align with the entire point of the multiverse, which is a huge what if something went differently, I think Miguel replacing his dead self caused an incursion like in multiverse of madness
Part 2 here: czcams.com/video/B0zouERfRqY/video.html
Part 2 will finish many of the ideas started in this video so make sure to stay updated for that!
If you any any information that could either prove or disprove this theory, make sure to comment it so I can take a look!
you had a great idea delving into the comics for answers, but it also reveals that he does not have any senses. Maybe go and read the comics more, to possibly reveal something new? For example, the suit in the movie looks like incredible technology, while the comics say its unstable molecules. There seem to besome inconsistencies in the comics, but the majority seems to check out
@@mr.commonsense It is true that in the comics he doesn’t really have a Spider-Sense. I don’t want to rely TOO much on the comics, but as it is his origin, I could definitely mention it!
@@RemGames yeah, that was my point when I said there seemed to be inconsistenties.
When miguel said that miles killed spiderman of his universe he forgot about ps5 spider man and miles
When will we get part 2?
Miguel doesnt have spidey sense, the normal spiderperson senses when danger is near or something isnt right but in the scene with the paper vulture, gwen expects him to sense the vulture by saying stuff to hint at it, but throughout the movie we never once seen him use spidey senses. he just relies on quick reflexes
i think i like the idea that miguel is clinging to the idea of canon events because in a way it's a justification of the trauma he and by extension every other spider person went through. because if their trauma doesn't make them better people, that would just mean they were hurt and now have to live with it. it's like he doesn't want to confront that life happens and things go wrong all the time. our trauma and our scars don't have a set reason for happening, they just do and we live with it. there is no deeper meaning in them and we try so hard to justify them but it doesn't truly exist
I would just like to point out that the amount of time spent in the wrong universe effects how 'broken' the canon gets. Dr Octavia mentioned it; that the glitching will get worse until eventually it's ripped apart completely. Miguel could have broken his universe because he spent a significant amount of time there, likely years by how attached to his family he got.
Peter however only spent like half a day in Miles' universe.
An interesting detail is that Miguels squad at the end is made up of non typical spider people, neather, Miguell, Jassica nor Ben have typical spiderman origin storys.
I'm pretty sure that the "Uncle ben moment" is just used as a general term so describe a spider person's personal tragedy, and not the hyper specific moment of a uncle or family member dying. kind of like how people saw aunt may's death in no way home as Peter's "uncle ben moment" even thought she was obviously not uncle ben.
3:25 i'm not 100% sure this is how spidey sense works anyway but in the begining of the movie gwen tricks him to get hit by that vulture varian because he doesn't have a spidey sense
Given Peter B. Parker's relatively low screentime for this movie I believe the writers are planning something for him in BTSV. One detail I thought of that you wrote was how Peter B. was in the universe that Miguel lost his daughter too was wearing a watch. Given that in ITSV Peter B. knew nothing about alternate universes, how did Peter B. manage to get to that universe in the first place? Why would Peter B. even be in that universe in the first place? (given that he also was raising a child and that Miguel most likely stayed for a long period of time in order to form a bond with his daughter).
Since ITSV and ATSV take place 1 year between each other and we see Miguel testing the watch in the end credit scene in ITSV, we can assume that the spider society formed between that gap (which is alarmingly fast). And since Miguel only formed the spider society AFTER the universe was destroyed then Peter B. must've been invited pretty early on--even before the creation of the Spider Society. This means that Peter B. may be one of the founding members of the Spider Society, and why he has such a close relationship with Miguel. I believe Peter B. was in that Universe because he wants adventure given how calm his own universe is after being 22+ years as Spiderman; He even tells his wife that this is "work" to him--implying that his own universe is empty of it.
In fact given how Mayday Parker is not even supposed to exist. It makes me wonder if HE will be the one that exposes Miguel's misinformed theory.
This channel is so underrated
You made some amazing points that I didn't think about in regards to the Peter B. situation and how it relates to Miguel's. Seen plenty of people arguing for Miguel's side online and I feel like that pokes such a huge hole in that argument. Can't wait for the next episode!
"Mr. Fisk, if we fire again this week, there could be a black hole under Brooklyn" - says Doc oc.
Meanwhile in Mumbattan: Spot fires the collider, we see a quantum hole (which I believe is a black hole) under the bridge.
Coincidence? I don't think so.
Consequences of disrupting a canon event? Don't think so either.
Nice catch!
So I think the creators intentionally named canon invents canon events instead of fixed points because fixed points might be unique to each separate universe and canon events are supposed to occur in every universe
They also named them "canon events" to take a swipe at the subset of the fandom that's hateful about canon (thus, rejecting Miles outright because he's not Peter Parker) or just obsessed with it considering that there have been so many interation of Spider-Man and so many restarts and off-shoots of the story that there's no single version that's "canon."
miguel doesnt have spider sense, he got hit in the beginning of the movie without even knowing that paper guy was behind him
yeah, miguel doesn't have spidey sense. it's his thing, he's an actual half human half sp8der. he's supposed to have organic spider webs, so idk why he wasn't given, but he has enhanced hearing, smell and sight
Miguel is definitely lying and its very obvious Gwen's father retired and didn't become captain ergo breaking a canon event and her universe is still intact and you can even see that she realises this too and that's what motivates her to form a team to help miles face Miguel.
3:34 Actually, in the scene where gwen, miguel, and (later on) spiderwoman are fighting the renaissance vulture we can see miguel not being able to sense the vulture attacking him from behind. This proves that he doesn't have a spidey sense.
I don't think Miguel is lying but instead not informed well cause it's obvious he blames himself for that "broken canon" incident with how he's putting it on himself for causing that universe to collapse when there is totally so much more to the story. He's using "canon events" as an excuse to cope and relief some the self-guilt he put on himself.
I don't think Miles is breaking the canon at all. Literally everything that's happened to him so far is canon!
Interesting comment, I feel like whatever happens in life is meant to happen, it doesn't just "accidentally happen", maybe there is a reason why miles was armed with the knowledge of his dad possibly dying to the spot if he becomes captain.
yeah.
That Miguel O Hara is an absolute spider 2099 menace
Man I wish your videos were longer, keep up the great work!!!
Thank you so much!
migeul could have two types of webbing: multiversal webbing (the red omega beam "webs") and normal webs maybe organic maybe the mwebs act as a day pass for the villain's they are trying to capture we didnt see that much of miguel's webbing in the grand run time of the movie so we gotta wait and see
This theory definitely makes sense. That not all Universes will crumble in the way how Miguel's universe did.
Another thing with Miles trying to save his family members. If Miles’ Spidey Senses triggered as Kingpin was about to rise his gun and kill Aaron Miles’ would push Aaron out of the way before the bullet hit Aaron which would have resulted in breaking his own canon event. With failing to keep his uncle alive, Miles sure wants to save his dad wanted but, it’s termined either his dad or his mom who could died. Like Miguel said ”you can’t have it all.”
idk if anyone mentioned it, but miguel speaking about how his family died and then finding another version of his family in a world where he died reminds me of the first movie where kingpin was searching for another version of his own family due to his inability to accept it. i’m thinking maybe miguel was like his earth’s kingpin, created something like a collider, trying to fill the void of his dead family without confronting the finality of their fates. because he himself couldn’t get away with it, as he was disrupting an entire world’s existence just by his presence, he refuses to allow anyone to have happy lives / a happy ending in their OWN world. i’m too tired to elaborate on my theory but i’m really thinking about it hard 🤨
I think a lot of these holes can be attributed to the fact that Miguel doesn’t know any of this for a fact. He’s a scientist, and this is his big theory and since no one else has disproved his theory, his hypothesis and testing has been confirmed already in his eyes. It’s like if someone made a video essay critiquing a movie that hadn’t been released yet. If the cast and crew of the movie don’t correct it, and the person making the video essay is the only other one who knows about it, the criticism can be assumed/taken as facts
bro is NOT matpat
finally!
12:16 you just said that people could replace "uncle ben" and some people loose their aunt, uncle or best friend. But in the across the spiderverse, when miguel is explaining that this event (captain close to spiderman will die protecting a child) will definitely happen and miles is resisting, he asks gwen if she if fine with this as her dad is a captain too, to which she nods, but later when she is sent to her dimension and talks with her dad, he says that he will resign from the post of captain, to which expresses relief. So gwen's friend dying was a canon event but not this one maybe, or maybe because peter died, her dad wouldn't die. But again peter isn't a police captain, but is definitely someone close to gwen, this proves how maybe only some part of the canon event requirement can be met and how even then the event will take place, but if in the next movie gwen's dad dies, then yes all requirements must be met.
I have a theory where Miguel didnt break the canon because his alternate self had already died instead i think he had caused an incursion which is explaien through ''What If'' and the other doctor strange movies what miguel had done was stay in his alternate selves universe for too long which caused the universe to collapse, when one is in a dimenson fort too long that could cause an incursion which is why that universe collapsed.
Bro does not know what he’s talking abt 💀
I think Miguel killed his doppelganger, variant? I don't know but I think he killed him and replaced him in their reality and that's what caused it to break down. And he's lying cuz he doesn't want the other spider people to know what he did.
Interesting idea! I’ll definitely look into that!
Miguel is literally a hero??? What are you talking about
It is confirmed (from what I've heard) post credits Miguel from the first movie is this Miguel. Anyways 2 big bads are gonna make things messy when Spot already exists.
one of the things that kinda threw me off was how miguel basically said everything happens for a reason (his explanation of how miles’s dad has to die) and then said miles isn’t supposed to be spiderman. wtf??
Thanks! It makes everything so much more sinister and specific and makes everything clearer! Pt 2 plzz
Miguel organically produces silk as written in the comics. He also does not a Spidey sense at all in the comics
I haven't seen anyone touch on the fact that when Miles shocks Miguel during the whole "Nah, imma do my own thing scene", Miguel very visably glitches for a moment while he recovers from being shocked and falling down... now this could just be Miles' glitches spreading but what if it's more?
I’m not sure if that theory has ever been suggested, but what if Miguel actually killed his other self to take his place ?
12:15 This is a reference to the fact that in Earth-616 Captain George Stacy died in Amazing Spider-Man vol 1 #90. By that I mean this isn't what Miguel is referencing it's just a reference in the film because of course the comics' multiverse be can't part of the same multiverse that's in Across the Spider-verse because the comics did their own Spider-Verse story so... that would have been brought up if it already happened.
13:39 I should also note that even if you don't think that Iron Man is a Captain then irrefutably a Captain did die in the MCU before he has his Uncle Ben moment (when Aunt May died) and that's the fact that Captain America died before Aunt May in the MCU.
I know that some movies to vary from the old comics but a part of Miguel's story is that he doesn't have Spidey Sense at all, he has ultra-sensitive hearing and vision which just means that his vision and hearing are subpar compared to other spidermen but more advanced then the regular person.
Miguel also doesn’t sense the Vulture in the beginning when he attacks from behind and also doesn’t sense the train that hits him in the car chase sequence right before the woman points at miles.
IM SO GLAD YOU MADE A SPIDER-MAN THEORY, SUPEE EXCITED FOR PART TWO ✨✨✨
you forgot the most important one that overshadows the rest, that being "Abused by the writers. which he checks out with his backstory
Miguel definitely doesn’t have spider sense not only does he not have it in the comics but it is also shown in the movie when he first appears. Vulture is about to attack him from behind and he could not sense it at all
Miguel says a universe can't have multiple spider variants in one universe yet there are multiple spider variants in some universes.
•Marvel Rising universe (Gwen and Peter/Miles)
•Marvel Spiderman 2017 universe (Peter, Miles, Gwen and Anya)
•Insomniac Spiderman universe (Peter and Miles)
•Ultimate Spiderman TV show universe (Peter and Scarlet Spider)
•Ben Riley's universe (Peter and Ben)
•Renew your vows universe (Peter, MJ and Anna)
•Peter B Parker's universe (Peter and Mayday)
•Amazing Spidey and Friends universe (Peter, Gwen and Miles)
•Lego universe? (Peter and Gwen)
In the original comic, Miguel has no Spidey-senses. So you would be on the money there.
The canon event where miles’ dad dies is caused by spot, meaning the canon event wouldn’t happen if he hadn’t “broken” the canon in the first place
in the beginning of the movie when miguel fist shows up and fights the vulture, gwen tells him "enjoy being knocked out" he was confused but then he gets hit by the vulture ... about 15 minutes into the movie, while they stop the helicopter he rolls his hand into a fist and shoots his webs
I am so hooked, I can't wait for part 2
It's still possible that Miguel being in the wrong universe prevented somebody from becoming Spider-Man. But I don't think the universe's destruction was the direct result of that. If Alchemex has establishments across the multi-verse, isn't it a possibility that there was nobody to stop Kingpin from turning on the machine and causing this destruction?
(That could even be what Peter from 1610 saw in the multiverse. That's how he knew Kingpin's plan wasn't gonna work.)
2:42
Miguel doesn’t have spidey sense.
In the fight against vulture, when Miguel says he’ll “take it from here” he doesn’t sense the vulture behind him and doesn’t fight him off in time.
Miguel didn't notice when the Vulture was up to attack him as he joined Gwens Universe. Thats more of a fact, he doesnt have a spidey Sense, even though for unexperienced spidermans or when spiderman gets distracted it seems that it also has happend to others before.
I don't think Miguel is intentionally misleading all the other spider people. I think this is what he truly believes. Obviously he's made some wrong assumptions about what causes universes to get destroyed and I hope he realizes this in the next movie. Its gonna devastate him and the other spider people that followed him after learning they really didnt need to stand by and let some people die.
also we see insomniac peter in the room with all of the villains which means that the insomniac games are canon to spider verse which breaks the idea that peter died because miles had to be spider man since in those games peter and miles coexist and work together a lot
I also wondered if Earth 1610 peter dying might count as Miles' cop dying in a fight with a nemesis. Just happening in a weird order.
He's a crime fighter and role model to Miles.
He was killed by Miles' nemesis, Kingpin, the person who also kills his uncle and kicked off his story.
just a thought :)
9:13 I think what miguel meant is if miles never got bit he would've never been in the situation where peter had to save him, peter wouldn't have gotten distracted during his fight with green goblin and he would've plugged in the override key before the prowler could stop him. but because he had to try and save miles from falling, that gave the prowler enough time to intervein
heres something a lot of people overlook when looking at Canon events, the Spiderverse is connected to the MCU and by extension Marvel's What If show, and in that show we see that it's possible for someone in their home universe to break the canon although to do that you gotta jump through a lot of hoops in order to achieve the same effect.
Dr. Strange in What If basically had to become as strong as the Infinity Gauntlet in order to use the Time Stone with enough power to break a canon event, and when he did it caused the complete collapse of his universe, because everything that happened was the result of a single universe nothing glitches out, but we do see everything being reduced to Dark Matter, the same material the Collider uses to tear open holes in reality and the same material Spot uses for his powers.
we also see this Dark Matter appear in Dr. Strange's Multiverse of Madness after two universes collided but that's getting a little off-topic since that's the result of Dream Walking which operates on entirely different mechanics than standard Multiverse travel.
In the movie, Miguel doesn't shoot webs with the signature spider-man gesture, but shoots them nonetheless. However, these are "laser webs" that can split off when he wants them to
12:15 ASM90 means Amazing Spider Man Volume 1 #90, titled "And Death Shall Come". This is the issue in which Captain George Stacy dies. I think it's just referring to when this trope first appeared, not the order that they have to be in.
Technically if you think about it, when Pavtir Prabhakar's canon event gets interrupted, we see the big black "Metaphor for capitalism" as Hobie puts it on the ground, away from the bridge. However, if you think about it, The Spot used the collider successfully, and then destroyed the Alchemax building fell, it destroyed the bridge, and combined with The Spot's spot. But if you remember what Olivia (Doc Oc) mentioned that a black hole would open if the collider was successful. If we really want to think on this more, The Spot's, spot technically combined with the black hole. So it wasn't just causing things to glitch, and the interdimensional canon to fail, but rather The Spot just caused more damage to Pavtir's universe.
i don;t think the numbers around 14:00 are the chronological order but, the first creation of the trope. Spiderbite and uncle Ben dies probably are named similar with a distinction with and A and B as i am guessing the first spiderman comic covered Peter's Origin and they feel (as someone who watches the movies) something a first issue of the comic would cover.
ASM-90 for captain's death is connected to the first death of Captain Stacey
probably first use of the symbiote is the first use in the comics is also marked as such
I really love the caption connecting you made in the MCU Peter. That is a cool one, but because of the my train of taught that moment would be marked as first death of Captain Stacey, leading to Mile's dad as a potential captain as a future cannon event. Hope this makes sense.
Honestly, everything Miguel told miles was most likely projection, I mean Gwen did warn us about Miguel. I mean listen to it, your an anomaly, a danger to everyone even tho miles decision hasn’t really done anything yet, and the biggest one “you were never meant to be spider man” says the person lacking spider abilities😂
I pokey thought you were film theory.😂 I love the film theory style thumbnail.
1 thing I would like to say is even though Peter B. Parker went inside the universe of Mile's he didn't interact with many people or with anyone who really knew him from that universe except aunt May while Miguel could have done his job and interacted with a lot of people.