I like the thought that Adam may not have been so terrible originally and he got progressively worse after death just like the Hazbin characters have gotten better. He could be proof that souls are dynamic no matter where they go.
This is my mind too. In heaven he live who know how many centuries constantly with the knowlegde that he was the first man and perhaps many have cheer him for that. That could do bad things in mind.
It is hinted that he got really salty towards lUCIFER FOR STLEIANG HIS FIRST WIFE Then corrupting his second while now that he’s in heaven, nothing he does can be reprimanded because he’s already made it there, so everyone is forced to deal with him because he has divine judgment on his side. he probably got more and more sadistic and lethargic, allowing his vices and bigotry to corrupt him more and more.
also you gotta remember that Husk was an overlord. he dealt with human souls and gambled them away. thats probably gonna make it way harder to get into heaven
@@GuyWhoWatchesStuffAlastor powering up? HAHAHAHA that would be the most disastrous thing they have ever written in the history of a screenplay Alastor, a cannibalistic murderer, in heaven... Yes, no
@@GuyWhoWatchesStuff I'm not sure a contract can get in the way of divine judgement. I'd totally agree that no one else can really do anything about such a contract, but... God? Yeah, I'd say if Husk manages to do enough to be redeemed, the contract will not be the issue there. The fact that he used to gamble souls away, much more so.
I think "double dead" is just a reference to the pilot, where Angel makes a joke about how Vaggie has no power over him because since he's already dead, she can't make him double-dead.
Talking about Vaggie’s lines in Whatever It Takes hitting differently now that we have context. So Vaggie’s love language is Acts of Service, which makes sense seeing as she was in the Exorcist army, where you’re literally just trained to follow orders and that’s your whole worth. So for her to lose all that, and then meet Charlie who is possibly the first person to show Vaggie true love and affection, of course she’s going to become undying loyal and devoted to her. That’s the only kind of love she knows how to give. As for her making herself into armor/an inanimate object, I think Husk said it best. Vaggie hates herself and again, a lot of her self worth is tied into being the protector, the spear, the person who will make Charlie’s dreams a reality at the cost of herself if she has to. Which…. Frick me they really need to have a conversation about that, get this girl a therapist please. Also, unrelated, but for as much of a shit person Lute is…. I love her voice. Literally my favorite part of You Didn’t Know. 10/10 have listened to that specific part again and again.
My understanding of the reason for the extermination is that it reduces the number of souls in hell, and the Overlords of hell derive their power from how many souls they own. So removing those souls puts a hard cap on the level of Power the denizens of hell can achieve. It'll be interesting to see if there is some truth to her words about the "uprising", maybe an Overlord has tried to rise against heaven before. We know from Velvette that the V's were certainly eager to assault Heaven the moment they had any inkling it was possible. The impression I got of Sera was a bit more sympathetic. Not much more mind you, but slightly. I could be wrong but it feels like they might be going with the "Clockmaker" view of god which posits that whatever entity "god" was created the universe and all the laws that govern the universe... but then that god entity just left and let the universe run itself by those laws without any further interaction with it. If that's how the Hazbin universe operates then it seems like Heaven and Hell do operate based on rules, but like the gears running a clock those rules are all hidden from view and noone actually knows what they are. Whatever process sends people to Heaven and Hell is just automatic, and it may be that whatever causes angels to fall may also be automatic. I'm wondering if Sera and the other Seraphim didn't actually "send" Lucifer to hell (keep in mind that lore is delivered to us in E1 in the form of a storybook Charlie is reading, it could just be those are the events as she knows them and not actually what happened) but rather whatever rules govern the universe caused him to fall into the pit his and Lilith's actions created. When Sera warns Emily not to question, it felt to me like Sera is genuinely terrified of that. If its true the process is beyond her understanding and she doesn't know the actual rules then she, and everyone else in heaven, is living an eternal existence with a sword of damocles over their heads that could cause them to fall into hell at any time without them even knowing why and, so far as they know, have no way to ever come back from it. Her actions are abhorrent and hypocritical and yet if any of this is true, an eternity of living under that kind of existential nightmare makes it entirely unsurprising she's doing everything she can to maintain the status quo that she knows works.
AFAIR, the Kings of the Rings get power from every single soul in their ring. Theoretically, one can extend that out and say that, as King of Hell, Luci gets a cut of EVERY SINGLE SOUL IN HELL. One could theorycraft further that he gets the King of Pride Ring cut and THEN the King of Hell cut. Every single soul in Hell makes their feared enemy stronger - every soul in Pride might count twice! Add that to his Oldest of the Seraph power and you could easily understand why they fear to take a swing at Luci now when they felt they could put him down pre-Hell.
3:18 human souls can only permanently die in hell if killed by angelic weaponry, at which point your soul Energy gets absorbed into the environment of hell, if your body gets destroyed by any other means you just regenerate in a different part of the pride ring
9:09 Fun Fact that girl in red on the left is Angel Dust twin sister Molly, Viv said years ago that Molly wasn't in Hell so we finally know where she is
I think the "yikes, am I right" was more him trying to play off that he dropped the F-bomb after hearing the name Lucifer. I'm also pretty sure the reason the angels don't know what it takes to be redeemed from hell is because, to their best knowledge, it never happens. According to science, it's very hard to prove a negative. All they know is that nobody ever made it, so clearly whatever it takes to ascend from the pits to the heavenly host has to be a lot more difficult than what it takes to go from Earth to Heaven.
I suspect Emily is the new Lucifer. She's younger than Sera and her purpose isn't to protect heaven, it's to keep the residents happy! Which is what Lucifer seems to have originally been all about, creating toys and fireworks and circuses and other forms of entertainment. Then after he fell, a new seraphim of joy was... promoted? Created maybe?? To fulfil that purpose Also, there are some interesting parallels between Sera and Lucifer, and even Carmilla if you think about it. None of them like the exterminations, but when they got the chance to stop (or at least attempt to stop) them from happening, they chose not to because they have daughters/daughter figures they believed they were protecting by allowing it
Husk's position could just be supportive but skeptical. He may not believe redemption is possible, but also see how working towards that goal has been beneficial for Angel. Kinda like an atheist acknowledging that churches are often good for communities.
What I took from "Loser, Baby" is that Husk's coping mechanism is fatalistic acceptance. He's lost control of himself and his life, so he regains a sense of autonomy by telling himself he's at least in control of his ability to accept the reality of his enslavement. I think this will make him resistant to actually trying to redeem himself, since that would remove the sense of self-determination he's scraped together for himself: redemption would mean his life is completely out of his hands, and all he can do is hope Heaven grabs him before Alastor destroys him.
Tbh, I feel for Sera. She isn’t a bad person, she’s just a person with too much responsibility and not enough information to make good decisions. She seems to mean well, but what can she do if she doesn’t know anything and is afraid to ask questions? She doesn’t know what we know about hell and the people there. All she knows is that there are rapists and murderers in hell and they want to uprise and overthrow heaven. Why would she care about demons who are proven to be awful people when she has a kingdom of souls she is tasked with protecting? Granted, that’s not the reality, that’s her reality and I can see her making a deal with Adam to do whatever it takes to make sure Hell can’t threaten heaven.
That's just the thing, we don't know what Sera knows and what she doesn't know. The fact that Lilith is on a beach in heaven just threw a whole lot more questions than answers. There is a lot more going on than we realized.
We also don't know what happened in the past. Kyra keeps saying that the demons aren't doing anything to threaten heaven... But how do we know that was always the case? We don't see or know what the more powerful demons were or are plotting. Maybe they did know angels can he killed and Alastor taking out all of the overlords, plus the exterminations inadvertently stalled that? Likewise, we don't know that Sera 100% cast Luficer down. Perhaps she was following orders. We just don't have tons of information.
Regarding how 'Whatever It Takes' is such a foreshadowing of the Vaggie as a fallen Exorcist reveal, did you notice that it also shows that Vaggie climbs up to high places to seek comfort when she's distressed? Because that habit takes an entirely new context when you find out that Vaggie used to have wings.
The uprising they mention was said at the beginning of the first Chapter. Lilith was gaining power with each soul that entered hell, and since the cycle of life and death was not going to stop, she could become too powerful. To counter this, Adam began the exterminations, the complete destruction of the souls of sinners kept Lilith in line, and her power would not grow without limits.
Oh just the way they deal with their souls is different from Alastor's, he and Vox seem to like to torture those who don't serve them well. For some reason Vox said "I'll give you to shoot those who have earned less" for Val's amusement and peace of mind and as punishment for those souls who didn't give him more.
I have absolutely no desire to actually defend Sera, she is in the wrong here, but I can absolutely see hell being a credible threat. The overlords in hell draw power from the souls they own. If hell's numbers swelled by billions, the raw power and capability of those on top would grow as well. The introduction in ep1 even hints that this is what heaven felt threatened by. Now imagine if these powerful demons ripped apart the barrier between heaven and hell, and marched legions of bloodthirsty sinners through. Even if the more powerful angels could beat back the invasion, it would be a bloodbath among the souls that Sera thinks of as automatically innocent and good and worthy of protection. Something certainly worth preventing, but there should be several options for that other than committing yearly preemptive genocide. I think Sera genuinely thinks she is doing the right thing. The original angels other than Lucifer keep being portrayed as rigid and unimaginative in their thinking. Such a person would have a hard time thinking of or accepting a solution to problems that would upset what they think of as the natural order. Which means they will pretty much never find the right answer when the existing system itself is causing the problem. And then we have Adam, who is actively arrogant, wicked, and bloodthirsty, and who apparently suggested the exterminations in the first place. I can easily imagine a scene where he suggests it and Sera agrees to it as a quick and easy and quiet method to put a lid on things before her precious order is disturbed. Without him, perhaps the question of what to do could have continued until someone came up with a better solution.
Great analysis and speculation here from Kyra and in comments! One more detail I noticed when Kyra went back to ep 3 where Vaggie sings: she seems to be staring right at Heaven in the sky, which I guess is one more hint concerning her origin.
The Valentino scene REALLY scared me... because in the Trailer, we saw Charlie crying in front of Angels room. I was convinced Angel would die because of this.
So, I thought of something, the angels don't know what gets people into either heaven or hell, right? But the angels never made hell in the first place, it was created when evil leaked into the world, so what was the plan before that? I think all human souls were originally meant to go to heaven, because at the time Adam, Lillith and Eve were created there was No hell, and the only people that were sent to hell as punishment by the angels are Lucifer and Lillith, but aside from beings they send to hell directly, the whole process is out of their control. So why do people go to hell? I think it has to do with that "Evil" that leaked into the world, when they showed it in episode 1 it looked like a black void with a bunch of red eyes, which means it's a "Thing", and "It" created hell when it entered the world, so what if it's still there? Hidden somewhere in the deepest pits of hell, and it's the main reason why souls go to hell. Hear me out, if a single action created a strong enough conection that allowed this "Thing" to enter into our world, then maybe certain actions create a stronger conection to It, and when humans do a certain amount or type of these actions it allows "It" to pull these souls into the realm it created, Hell. But for what purpose? Well, if thing is evil itself, then maybe it feeds of these negative actions, so it pulls sinners to hell so that they can continue to feed it, and if they happen to permanently die it can simply eat wathever remains of them. But then why is Adam in heaven if he's such a horrible person? Remember, all the original humans were meant to go to heaven, and they never showed Adam eating the fruit, only Eve, so he never got corrupted by the evil, all their descendants did however, because they were born from Eve, but then what about the exorsists like Lute? I don't have that solid of an answer for that, but let's consider the fact that Adam gave Vaggie her name, and all the exorsists seem to be girls, where am I going with this? Eve was made from Adam, so what if the same could be said of the exorsits? That could explain why the exorsists like Lute are in heaven, because they were created there, it could also explain why they act like that, they are exposed to both Adam and Hell from the moment of their creation, It's all they know. So then, why were the exterminations started? Remember, the angels only sent Lucifer and Lillith to hell, they don't know why sinners go there, and they definetly don't know about the "Thing" in the depts of hell, so how did they find out the sinners were there? Maybe Adam, once he went to heaven, decided to check on Lillith, probalby because he wanted to see her suffer, afterall, hell was suposed to be a punishment, but he saw Lillith thriving in there, so Adam came up with the exterminations and informed Sera about this in a way that made it look like Lillith was staging an uprising, and Sera, not knowing how all these sinners got there in the first place, panics, because thanks to Adam, all she sees is Lucifer's wife rallying by what looks like an army of murderers and psycopaths that somehow got into hell, so she gave Adam the green light on his extermination project, to cull the population of hell enough to stop or push back this supposed "uprising". Sorry if this is really long, but I recently came up with this theory and I wanted write it down before I forgot about it, but it was fun to connect all these dots, even if it's most likely wrong
I dont think Sera is responsible for lucifer falling. The way she talks about protecting emily from falling and the fact she knows very little about what gets people into heaven makes me think she is just grasping for straws, trying to keep some simblance of understanding around. There are most likely people above her because we already know the exact hierarchy of heaven and hell isn't exactly biblical, nor do we know if there is even an active god.
I interpret the way she talks to Emily has the typical line from an abuser: "Don't make me hurt you." When she tells Emily not to question or she'll end up banished. We saw in the intro of the show that she's among the angel who cast Lucifer out. We saw here that she's acting as the judge presiding over the court. She would have presided over Lucifer's trial. She couldn't bear to do that to Emily too, but she will do what is required. She's already been shown to use understatements and not like to explicitly admits to what she's done. "Adam's yearly activities", "do what was required". It's not very surprising that she doesn't want to explicitly tell Emily "Don't question me or I'll banish you from Heaven, just like I did Lucifer." She likely doesn't want to admit it to herself, it's out of her hands, she doesn't have a choice, don't make me do this...
We don't know if it was Sera who threw Lucifer and Lilith into Hell, actually, I think there are more people above her, the angels we see in Lucifer's song "More Than Anything" when he says "I won't lose it all again" with all the spears pointed towards him, I read somewhere that those might be the 7 Virtues as opposed to the 7 Sins.
Seraphins are the closest to god, there shouldn't be anyone much People above sera but besides her like other seraphins. And although lucifer is an archangel, he's not weaker than sera but stronger since archangels are the front lines of heaven's army
The virtues are a class of angel that protect and serve everything pure and honest in creation. They are actually a fairly low ranking angel in the hierarchy because they interact with earthly means.
@@andrequintela976Archangels aren’t fighters, they are messengers. Archangels are actually the second lowest ranking beings in heaven, with only the basic angels being lower. We just think of the archangels as powerful because revelations mentions the 7 archangels being present to herald the sealing of Lucifer and his followers in hell, with Michael being the one to announce the closing of Hell forever, though it doesn’t explicitly state they will put him there. They just announce the changing of worlds. When you see an archangel, shit is about to hit the fan the likes of which humanity has never seen, though that’s not their power.
I know the show hasn't mentioned God or Jesus, but the existence of Saint Peter sure seems to imply a certain amount of Catholic lore, right? So is there a God up there making the rules, or in the show's universe are Christians just false prophets who made up their cosmology but happened to get Pete's name right?
@@andrequintela976 In Hazbin hotel Lucifer was also a seraphim, we know it because of his 6 wings, and because in the Spanish version of the song Hells Great dad talks about "Power of Seraphim" Archangels do not have 6 wings, Lucifer does, he was a Seraphim, meaning that in heaven he was already very powerful
the first human soul in hell was lilith because she was casted into hell with lucifer the other human soul was probably the second human soul to go to hell the first person to commit the sin of envy and convinced adam to eat the apple is probably eve
Vaggie is still an Angel. She didn't die, so when singing "I be you Armor", it could also mean that she is going to protect Charlie, because she believes that no one in hell can hurt her.
I don't know if Valentino making Angel work 16 hours is vindictive or just what a lot of bosses would do if they could get away with it. Personally the longest I ever worked was 14 hours but I think having a lawless society where you can basically have slaves by owning their souls would lead to a lot of 16+ hour shifts. _____ I think in Helluva Boss it's kinda established that only angelic weapons can kill someone permanently. This is also touched on a bit in Episode 2 where Velvett mentions killing someone and waiting for them to "Put themselves back together". _____ About the threat that heaven feels hell poses: I feel like this is a bit more difficult because the narration at the start should probably be taken with a grain of salt. It's Charlie relaying a story she has been told by her mom(Most likely). So a unreliable narrator telling a story told to them by a unreliable narrator. The story goes that Lillith was empowering demons and their numbers and powers grew. I think reading in between the lines here it is very possible that Lillith didn't want to be in hell and was preparing an uprising which would line up with what Sera said was going to happen. I think we simply don't really know enough about Lillith to say if this is what was happening and if she could be reasoned with. _____ With the narration at the start being unreliable and Sera talking about "protecting their owns souls" it also becomes questionable if Sera is the one who threw Lucifer into hell or if she just observed that Lucifer was dancing out of line and ended up "Fallen". If Sera doesn't know what gets you into heaven or hell something or someone must have designed that system. Which would be Hazbins version of God I guess. What if Lucifer and Lillith being sent to hell wasn't punishment but instead a chance for Lucifer to atone for introducing evil into the world when he gave humanity free will. In hell he can set misguided souls on the right path like Charlie is doing now. But Lucifer maybe gave up too early and Lillith seemed to empower Demons in their evil not try to make them better. This is obviously just speculation but at this point there is very little confirmed information to work with and a lot of hints at "You really don't know the full story"
I would be the one(s) deciding where the souls go and how double death and all that works are the two we saw in episode one when they mentioned the angels worshipped good (light face with a closed eye appears on left side of screen) and fought against evil (dark face with open red eye appears on right side of screen). Either a dualism God or two gods, good and evil.
Thinking about it, the Extermination risks Heaven. Left to their own devices, the Sinners would be too busy tearing each other appart, but the Threat of the Extermination is something that could actually cause them to stop fighting each other and start raging war with Heaven.
Absolutely, Lucifer didn't fall, he was pushed. Also I wonder if next season will see Em also 'fall' and join the hotel, maybe even by choice, better fallen than a fraud.
Sera and the others don't choose who goes where so how would they know? People act like Sera is the one condeming people to hell but I don't think she has that authority. As to the uprisings? Im pretty sure it said in the very beginning that Lillith was empowering demonkind and all of hells power was growing so there is every chance they fought. Given that Overlords and Sins seem to amass strength via Souls it makes sense that purging them might be the only stop gap measure to keep them from getting strong enough to overtake the world. So if the angels had to choose between flying down and killing a few thousand versions of growing Vox's and Vals and Alastors every year to prevent an all out assault on the world I can see why they'd do it. Something I think a lot of people don't think about/remember is we are seeing 3-5 people in the show that are actively trying to better themselves. One is an angel who isn't from hell to begin with, one is a hellborn that is already happy go lucky, one is Angel(who admits in the beginning is only there for a free place to crash), and another is Sir Pentious. The rest of hell, for the most part, seems utterly content to shoot each other up, buy and sell souls, eat each other, drug one another, etc. They literally laugh Charlie out ofthe news studio for the idea of redemption. Even hearing the extermination was moved up 6 months wasn't enough to make any of them want to try for redemption. Ultimately my guess is the show deals in greys. Heaven is by and large mostly good people with a few assholes(exterminators) and hell is by and large a lot of assholes and monsters with a few people trying to redeem themselves.
just to speculate but maybe Lilith was the real threat, she grew in power and is basically blackmailing heaven in exchange for maybe information about something and give her commodities while the deal last which won't be long thanks to charlie lol
26:35 i think Vaggie swore too, at adam's list, but they didnt take note. Nor to adam really. Seems like either morningstar/hell bias or subconcious angel bias
There is a fanart of Charlie, Vaggie and Emily with three panels, first is Charlie kissing Vaggie, then Charlie kissing Emily and lastly Vaggie kissing Emily with Charlie giving double thumbs up, i guess that's another way to build diplomacy lmao
Oh for goodness sake! You are jumping to conclusions way to early in the show. Just because Sera allow the Extermination, doesn't mean that she likes the idea either, she clearly did not enjoy it, she thought of it as a necessary sacrifice unlike Adam and Lute who are absolutely sadistic. Maybe there is more to Sera's decisions than we let out, yes it is hypocritical to our perspective, emphasize on our perspective, like she said before there is a lot that we don't know just yet. As for the uprising thing in Hell, maybe it is not what you think, maybe Lilith is not as nice or kind as we all assume her to be. Who knows at this point, it's too early to jump to conclusions and don't forget Lilith disappeared for 7 years! Who knows what she is up to during that time. And Just because Angel Dust proves that Sinncers can improve for the better, doesn't mean that it would guarantee them a ticket to Heaven. Don't forget Lucifer also approves the Extermination too, he just tells them to kill the Sinners like no care in the world. Again, it is still too early in the show to jump to conclusions.
For the case of Abel, he did die before adam, so it got me thinking, either vivzi didn't took him into account or my theorie if Abel exist in this universe: Is Abel the one who juge mortal souls ?
Sorry watching again lol and i just wanted to clarify what i meant about charlie and her belief in redemption and what that means to those who need it. I as someone taught im unredeemable to come upon someone else who knows exactly as much as you about the way things work, they have to use thier faith just like you do, and they use that faith to not only believe in redemption but that YOU personally are capable of seeking it out and earning it. It almost gives me permission as the unredeemable to believe in the process through charlie instead of through myself. I dont trust myself to behave to do the right thing i have no self confidence so i borrow charlies instead. When my red smoke comes up (imagery from episode 2 val reminding angel of his possition) and that red smoke calls me worthless trash whose too stupid to understand simple concepts like what a hypocrit is i can fight those thoughts with charlies optism instead of my brainwashed pessimism....im not sure im making sense. She doesnt have to know everything, she simply has to have faith that if we try becoming better people something can and will change. Id be more moved by her belief in me than in the concept of redemption, I maybe dont deserve redemption but I do deserve kindness and understanding.
18:52 In courts it is not well seen to use dictionary references or definitions. Why? I don't remember, but it's a real thing. So well that's how it happens
Far be it from me to defend anything Sera did, but I did notice she was the only elder angel that looked sad when Lucifer was cast into Hell. I think we'll find out in Season 2 that she had one of two likely positions in his life, either an elder sister/mother for him like she has been for Emily or a former lover and we'll learn Emily is Charlie's half sister.
In hazbin adam didnt eat the apple but if want bring up his “crime “ the poem where we learn about the app,e paradise lost states eve ate the aple when adam came back and saw he was horified and chose to eat an apple as its stated he loved eve so much he rather fall with her than watch her fall alone the same poem earleir he tells the angel rephiel he is so madly in love with eve and could not stand to lose her he also was sddened when eve wished to be alone adam showed codependency in paridise lost but its when eve was alone lucifer tricked her adam knew the apples shouldnt be eaten eve didnt because adam asked so many wuestions to the angels and was warned his desire for knolledge was bad
Considering how screwed over women get in the Bible, seeing Lilith get into heaven and live an easy afterlife is such a girl boss achievement that I can't help but respect it. Even if I don't end up liking her I can respect a women who takes back the good that Heaven denied her from the start and force them to acknowledge that they screwed her over from the jump and give her a break.
To be fair on not using the term genicide the term was invented after ww2 by a jewish survivor and ratified by the un the term would not be commonly used by anyone from times before 1950s
Niffty and Emily are actually in their 20`s like their VAs, they just look younger than their actual ages and are shorter than their ages. Plus Niffty was a housewife in the 1950s on Earth and back then American women were super infantilized.
I still do not know how and why this meeting in this episode was ever allowed to happen. Why did Sera think she could keep the secret, when she invites people from Hell to speak freely in front of angels that do not know about it? Even just ANYONE from Hell could care to mention it, talk about it, but she allowed this to the Princess of Hell who's very reason to come was to talk about redeeming sinners in order to end the exterminations! THe fact that neither Charlie, nor Vaggie even says the word until Adam does is pure plot convenience, extreme luck for Sera. This episode is BS XD
43:46 I think Sera was referring more to an external thing, not to the reasons of heaven, but that there is something else that Charlie doesn't know, something that is about Sera. I don't believe God because as I remember he won't appear In the series, but there may be something. Look, I hate Sera as much as you do.But the truth is that it doesn't look like he wants to do what he's doing, but rather it seems like she has to do it.
Cause he'll got overpopulated and started a fight to overturn heaven under Lilith that's the whole reason for the extermination in theory I believe the more souls a demon has control over the more powerful they are so like a Lilith who's responsible for all souls in hell could mess stuff up while millions of souls split between overlords while they constantly chop away at the numbers doesn't quite add up
Adam never ate the apple, Lucifer offered the apple to Eve and Eve ate the apple and as punishment God threw Adam and Eve out of the Garden. It technically wasn't Adam's fault at all for getting kicked out but he got kicked out regardless (I don't remember but some do say that Adam knowingly did eat the forbidden fruit after Eve gave it to him and some say that Eve gave Adam the fruit and Adam ate it unaware it was the forbidden fruit). I don't remember how Adam had lived his life as a mortal but we do know he lived to the age of 930 and had three children. Cain, Abel, and Seth. Then we have a story about where Cain murders his brother Abel ( I don't remember where Abel's soul went ) but we know that Cain was cursed by God himself to wander the Earth for all eternity, to never die. Additional note: Their is nowhere in the bible that shows that Adam and Eve repented for their Sins, so we have no clue whether they are in Heaven or Hell. but honestly for the show's sake I really like the thought that Adam was once a really cool and nice guy who had gone to heaven and over his centuries of being in Heaven he started to progressively become worse
Sinners and fallen angels can only be killed with angelic steel but they are otherwise immortal. Hellborns and imps on the other hands are longer-lived than mortal souls but eventually will die of natural causes when God`s angels decide.
@@supattreewatanawong5025 The slander of calling Sera a horrible person when we barely know anything about her and her reasoning and the show is still too early to jump to conclusion.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of interaction or instructions from God in this series. They don't know what gets a person into heaven, they just know when a soul manifests.
I was raised in a cult the iblp. I have no education cause im a woman and i have one use and one use only. Im currently deconstructing (anti brainwash therapy) . There is something in this episode that my brain is trying to figure it out. But im guessing my brainwashing is preventing me from being able to process what im trying to glean from the episode. But something ive personally noticed as one of the unredeemable (ive committed exactly 2 unredeemable sins but the only one im willing to talk about is that i denied christ in a public forum as a way to completely cut ties with cult....hey look i am doing it again.) according to the cult ive done the unforgivable ive gone past the point of no return my soul deserves eternal seperation from light and love, my childhood definition of hell (a lot scarier than horny demons huh) there are no take backs. But charlie believes im not a lost cause and for some reason the fact that a cheerful cartoon princess believes im worthy of a second chance that im not trash, and evil makes me feel seen even though obviously im not seen shes a cartoon this isnt real. Ive dealt with my share of serah's in the cult, and the scene where shes sadly threatening the younger seraphim with excommunication....i have lived that scene more than once and sometimes with a physical punishment to really let me know im screwing up by asking why we do the things we did. Anyways i recognize all these pieces and parts but not what these parts mean for me and my recovery. I was so gaslit by the word hypocrit growing up i dont completely understand the concept...maybe thats where my brain wants to explore and why ive chosen your specific response video to watch over and over to try and figure this puzzle out. For the first time in forever i wish i had more friends so i could ask them a million questions about this episode. But thanks for uploading the reaction and giving me a safe space to explore outside of my own feelings and dispair to see what others are gleaning and learning. Thanks for sharing yourself and your thoughts in these videos, theyre heping a very scared woman process and you should be proud your emotional labor and editing, your kind words and your harsh ones too against the people i'd be to scared to go against have helped me cope.
Well, sinners can't reproduce in hell, so the exterminations aren't _technically_ genocide. That doesn't make it any more morally defensible, but I'm a pedantic person.
I’m not sure if it’s a theory or if it’s confirmed, all I know is a bunch of people say this. People like to say sinners can only be permanently killed by holy means, so if Angel were to be killed by say Valentino, he would respawn after some unknown period of time. I do not know if this is true so please take this with a grain of salt.
just Angel do good thing is not enough evidence it clear that Heaven Angel have no say in who get to Heaven there only job is to take care soul that get in so as long as no soul can get from Hell to Heaven it will never be enough evidence
i doubt sera was one of the "elders of heaven". shes only a seraphim and Lucifer was an Archangel. the only people who could have cast him out would have been the other archangels or god themself
Actually Lucifer is also a Seraphim Angel and technically Arch Angels are lower rank than Seraphims. However Vivziepop may have combine Arch Angels with Older/Higher ranking Seraphim Angels. Kind of like how the Overlords are basically just more powerful versions of Sinners.
I don't know why i'm just noticing that right now but if there's a Saint Peter then Jesus must have been real too and if Jesus is real then God also is, i like where this is going lol
I like the thought that Adam may not have been so terrible originally and he got progressively worse after death just like the Hazbin characters have gotten better. He could be proof that souls are dynamic no matter where they go.
This is my mind too. In heaven he live who know how many centuries constantly with the knowlegde that he was the first man and perhaps many have cheer him for that. That could do bad things in mind.
he did try to controll lillith in garden of eden so he was not that good back then either
@@BeanSparrow look ep 1 when we see lillith and luci metting eve you see her sad with is telling me see dint like to be so in adams controll
IIRC in this continuity Adam didn't take the offered apple of knowledge, so while he stayed in Heavens good graces he is literally a spoiled manchild.
It is hinted that he got really salty towards lUCIFER FOR STLEIANG HIS FIRST WIFE
Then corrupting his second
while now that he’s in heaven, nothing he does can be reprimanded because he’s already made it there, so everyone is forced to deal with him because he has divine judgment on his side.
he probably got more and more sadistic and lethargic, allowing his vices and bigotry to corrupt him more and more.
also you gotta remember that Husk was an overlord. he dealt with human souls and gambled them away. thats probably gonna make it way harder to get into heaven
Also Alaster *owns* his soul, so unless Alaster gets very charitable, dies, or somehow ascends himself; I don't think Husk is getting out soon
@@GuyWhoWatchesStuffAlastor powering up? HAHAHAHA that would be the most disastrous thing they have ever written in the history of a screenplay
Alastor, a cannibalistic murderer, in heaven... Yes, no
@@GuyWhoWatchesStuff I'm not sure a contract can get in the way of divine judgement. I'd totally agree that no one else can really do anything about such a contract, but... God? Yeah, I'd say if Husk manages to do enough to be redeemed, the contract will not be the issue there.
The fact that he used to gamble souls away, much more so.
I think "double dead" is just a reference to the pilot, where Angel makes a joke about how Vaggie has no power over him because since he's already dead, she can't make him double-dead.
well.... considering the revelations in this episode... that's not exactly correct.
@@RaphaelCGA Obvious, but that's just why Vaggie has an angelic spear
@@anniefemmas5097 well she also has a giant "X" over her eye as well as wielding that angelic spear so it's not that hard to figure out. *grin*
Talking about Vaggie’s lines in Whatever It Takes hitting differently now that we have context. So Vaggie’s love language is Acts of Service, which makes sense seeing as she was in the Exorcist army, where you’re literally just trained to follow orders and that’s your whole worth. So for her to lose all that, and then meet Charlie who is possibly the first person to show Vaggie true love and affection, of course she’s going to become undying loyal and devoted to her. That’s the only kind of love she knows how to give.
As for her making herself into armor/an inanimate object, I think Husk said it best. Vaggie hates herself and again, a lot of her self worth is tied into being the protector, the spear, the person who will make Charlie’s dreams a reality at the cost of herself if she has to. Which…. Frick me they really need to have a conversation about that, get this girl a therapist please.
Also, unrelated, but for as much of a shit person Lute is…. I love her voice. Literally my favorite part of You Didn’t Know. 10/10 have listened to that specific part again and again.
My understanding of the reason for the extermination is that it reduces the number of souls in hell, and the Overlords of hell derive their power from how many souls they own. So removing those souls puts a hard cap on the level of Power the denizens of hell can achieve. It'll be interesting to see if there is some truth to her words about the "uprising", maybe an Overlord has tried to rise against heaven before. We know from Velvette that the V's were certainly eager to assault Heaven the moment they had any inkling it was possible.
The impression I got of Sera was a bit more sympathetic. Not much more mind you, but slightly. I could be wrong but it feels like they might be going with the "Clockmaker" view of god which posits that whatever entity "god" was created the universe and all the laws that govern the universe... but then that god entity just left and let the universe run itself by those laws without any further interaction with it. If that's how the Hazbin universe operates then it seems like Heaven and Hell do operate based on rules, but like the gears running a clock those rules are all hidden from view and noone actually knows what they are. Whatever process sends people to Heaven and Hell is just automatic, and it may be that whatever causes angels to fall may also be automatic. I'm wondering if Sera and the other Seraphim didn't actually "send" Lucifer to hell (keep in mind that lore is delivered to us in E1 in the form of a storybook Charlie is reading, it could just be those are the events as she knows them and not actually what happened) but rather whatever rules govern the universe caused him to fall into the pit his and Lilith's actions created.
When Sera warns Emily not to question, it felt to me like Sera is genuinely terrified of that. If its true the process is beyond her understanding and she doesn't know the actual rules then she, and everyone else in heaven, is living an eternal existence with a sword of damocles over their heads that could cause them to fall into hell at any time without them even knowing why and, so far as they know, have no way to ever come back from it. Her actions are abhorrent and hypocritical and yet if any of this is true, an eternity of living under that kind of existential nightmare makes it entirely unsurprising she's doing everything she can to maintain the status quo that she knows works.
AFAIR, the Kings of the Rings get power from every single soul in their ring. Theoretically, one can extend that out and say that, as King of Hell, Luci gets a cut of EVERY SINGLE SOUL IN HELL. One could theorycraft further that he gets the King of Pride Ring cut and THEN the King of Hell cut. Every single soul in Hell makes their feared enemy stronger - every soul in Pride might count twice!
Add that to his Oldest of the Seraph power and you could easily understand why they fear to take a swing at Luci now when they felt they could put him down pre-Hell.
@@iainhowe4561 We forget that Lucifer is an incredibly powerful being because of how silly he seems.
3:18 human souls can only permanently die in hell if killed by angelic weaponry, at which point your soul Energy gets absorbed into the environment of hell, if your body gets destroyed by any other means you just regenerate in a different part of the pride ring
Also Alastor has some other power that allows him to tear souls apart. Maybe Valentino mentioned it too, but only in the context of soul ownership
But this is just a theory, isn't it? We've never seen or heard this in the show canonically
@@robertolanzone this one was said by Vivien, but until it is confirmed in the series itself, we can not count it
@@kfphunter1315 I believe that all those who possess souls can destroy people's souls, dying is different from having your soul destroyed.
@@robertolanzone Vivzie said it, it's not just a theory, she's said it multiple times
9:09 Fun Fact that girl in red on the left is Angel Dust twin sister Molly, Viv said years ago that Molly wasn't in Hell so we finally know where she is
I think the "yikes, am I right" was more him trying to play off that he dropped the F-bomb after hearing the name Lucifer.
I'm also pretty sure the reason the angels don't know what it takes to be redeemed from hell is because, to their best knowledge, it never happens.
According to science, it's very hard to prove a negative. All they know is that nobody ever made it, so clearly whatever it takes to ascend from the pits to the heavenly host has to be a lot more difficult than what it takes to go from Earth to Heaven.
I suspect Emily is the new Lucifer. She's younger than Sera and her purpose isn't to protect heaven, it's to keep the residents happy! Which is what Lucifer seems to have originally been all about, creating toys and fireworks and circuses and other forms of entertainment. Then after he fell, a new seraphim of joy was... promoted? Created maybe?? To fulfil that purpose
Also, there are some interesting parallels between Sera and Lucifer, and even Carmilla if you think about it. None of them like the exterminations, but when they got the chance to stop (or at least attempt to stop) them from happening, they chose not to because they have daughters/daughter figures they believed they were protecting by allowing it
Husk's position could just be supportive but skeptical. He may not believe redemption is possible, but also see how working towards that goal has been beneficial for Angel. Kinda like an atheist acknowledging that churches are often good for communities.
What I took from "Loser, Baby" is that Husk's coping mechanism is fatalistic acceptance. He's lost control of himself and his life, so he regains a sense of autonomy by telling himself he's at least in control of his ability to accept the reality of his enslavement. I think this will make him resistant to actually trying to redeem himself, since that would remove the sense of self-determination he's scraped together for himself: redemption would mean his life is completely out of his hands, and all he can do is hope Heaven grabs him before Alastor destroys him.
Tbh, I feel for Sera. She isn’t a bad person, she’s just a person with too much responsibility and not enough information to make good decisions. She seems to mean well, but what can she do if she doesn’t know anything and is afraid to ask questions?
She doesn’t know what we know about hell and the people there. All she knows is that there are rapists and murderers in hell and they want to uprise and overthrow heaven. Why would she care about demons who are proven to be awful people when she has a kingdom of souls she is tasked with protecting?
Granted, that’s not the reality, that’s her reality and I can see her making a deal with Adam to do whatever it takes to make sure Hell can’t threaten heaven.
The people Antagonize Too fast To Sera, She seems more scared than evil
That's just the thing, we don't know what Sera knows and what she doesn't know. The fact that Lilith is on a beach in heaven just threw a whole lot more questions than answers. There is a lot more going on than we realized.
We also don't know what happened in the past. Kyra keeps saying that the demons aren't doing anything to threaten heaven... But how do we know that was always the case?
We don't see or know what the more powerful demons were or are plotting. Maybe they did know angels can he killed and Alastor taking out all of the overlords, plus the exterminations inadvertently stalled that?
Likewise, we don't know that Sera 100% cast Luficer down. Perhaps she was following orders.
We just don't have tons of information.
Regarding how 'Whatever It Takes' is such a foreshadowing of the Vaggie as a fallen Exorcist reveal, did you notice that it also shows that Vaggie climbs up to high places to seek comfort when she's distressed? Because that habit takes an entirely new context when you find out that Vaggie used to have wings.
I love your reaction videos, you go so much more in depth on analysis than most people do!
Sera might be both paranoid and following orders
The uprising they mention was said at the beginning of the first Chapter.
Lilith was gaining power with each soul that entered hell, and since the cycle of life and death was not going to stop, she could become too powerful.
To counter this, Adam began the exterminations, the complete destruction of the souls of sinners kept Lilith in line, and her power would not grow without limits.
Just realized that Val might have held back because he noticed Angel currently had an ex-overlord on his side.
Oh just the way they deal with their souls is different from Alastor's, he and Vox seem to like to torture those who don't serve them well.
For some reason Vox said "I'll give you to shoot those who have earned less" for Val's amusement and peace of mind and as punishment for those souls who didn't give him more.
I have absolutely no desire to actually defend Sera, she is in the wrong here, but I can absolutely see hell being a credible threat.
The overlords in hell draw power from the souls they own. If hell's numbers swelled by billions, the raw power and capability of those on top would grow as well. The introduction in ep1 even hints that this is what heaven felt threatened by.
Now imagine if these powerful demons ripped apart the barrier between heaven and hell, and marched legions of bloodthirsty sinners through. Even if the more powerful angels could beat back the invasion, it would be a bloodbath among the souls that Sera thinks of as automatically innocent and good and worthy of protection. Something certainly worth preventing, but there should be several options for that other than committing yearly preemptive genocide.
I think Sera genuinely thinks she is doing the right thing. The original angels other than Lucifer keep being portrayed as rigid and unimaginative in their thinking. Such a person would have a hard time thinking of or accepting a solution to problems that would upset what they think of as the natural order. Which means they will pretty much never find the right answer when the existing system itself is causing the problem.
And then we have Adam, who is actively arrogant, wicked, and bloodthirsty, and who apparently suggested the exterminations in the first place. I can easily imagine a scene where he suggests it and Sera agrees to it as a quick and easy and quiet method to put a lid on things before her precious order is disturbed. Without him, perhaps the question of what to do could have continued until someone came up with a better solution.
Emmy is the holy cinnamon roll
Great analysis and speculation here from Kyra and in comments!
One more detail I noticed when Kyra went back to ep 3 where Vaggie sings: she seems to be staring right at Heaven in the sky, which I guess is one more hint concerning her origin.
the girl thats with adam reminds me of a total drama island character
The Valentino scene REALLY scared me... because in the Trailer, we saw Charlie crying in front of Angels room.
I was convinced Angel would die because of this.
So, I thought of something, the angels don't know what gets people into either heaven or hell, right? But the angels never made hell in the first place, it was created when evil leaked into the world, so what was the plan before that? I think all human souls were originally meant to go to heaven, because at the time Adam, Lillith and Eve were created there was No hell, and the only people that were sent to hell as punishment by the angels are Lucifer and Lillith, but aside from beings they send to hell directly, the whole process is out of their control.
So why do people go to hell? I think it has to do with that "Evil" that leaked into the world, when they showed it in episode 1 it looked like a black void with a bunch of red eyes, which means it's a "Thing", and "It" created hell when it entered the world, so what if it's still there? Hidden somewhere in the deepest pits of hell, and it's the main reason why souls go to hell.
Hear me out, if a single action created a strong enough conection that allowed this "Thing" to enter into our world, then maybe certain actions create a stronger conection to It, and when humans do a certain amount or type of these actions it allows "It" to pull these souls into the realm it created, Hell.
But for what purpose? Well, if thing is evil itself, then maybe it feeds of these negative actions, so it pulls sinners to hell so that they can continue to feed it, and if they happen to permanently die it can simply eat wathever remains of them.
But then why is Adam in heaven if he's such a horrible person? Remember, all the original humans were meant to go to heaven, and they never showed Adam eating the fruit, only Eve, so he never got corrupted by the evil, all their descendants did however, because they were born from Eve, but then what about the exorsists like Lute? I don't have that solid of an answer for that, but let's consider the fact that Adam gave Vaggie her name, and all the exorsists seem to be girls, where am I going with this? Eve was made from Adam, so what if the same could be said of the exorsits? That could explain why the exorsists like Lute are in heaven, because they were created there, it could also explain why they act like that, they are exposed to both Adam and Hell from the moment of their creation, It's all they know.
So then, why were the exterminations started? Remember, the angels only sent Lucifer and Lillith to hell, they don't know why sinners go there, and they definetly don't know about the "Thing" in the depts of hell, so how did they find out the sinners were there? Maybe Adam, once he went to heaven, decided to check on Lillith, probalby because he wanted to see her suffer, afterall, hell was suposed to be a punishment, but he saw Lillith thriving in there, so Adam came up with the exterminations and informed Sera about this in a way that made it look like Lillith was staging an uprising, and Sera, not knowing how all these sinners got there in the first place, panics, because thanks to Adam, all she sees is Lucifer's wife rallying by what looks like an army of murderers and psycopaths that somehow got into hell, so she gave Adam the green light on his extermination project, to cull the population of hell enough to stop or push back this supposed "uprising".
Sorry if this is really long, but I recently came up with this theory and I wanted write it down before I forgot about it, but it was fun to connect all these dots, even if it's most likely wrong
I dont think Sera is responsible for lucifer falling. The way she talks about protecting emily from falling and the fact she knows very little about what gets people into heaven makes me think she is just grasping for straws, trying to keep some simblance of understanding around. There are most likely people above her because we already know the exact hierarchy of heaven and hell isn't exactly biblical, nor do we know if there is even an active god.
Sera is a Seraphim, just below Archangels and God himself in the Biblical Mythos.
I interpret the way she talks to Emily has the typical line from an abuser: "Don't make me hurt you." When she tells Emily not to question or she'll end up banished. We saw in the intro of the show that she's among the angel who cast Lucifer out. We saw here that she's acting as the judge presiding over the court. She would have presided over Lucifer's trial.
She couldn't bear to do that to Emily too, but she will do what is required.
She's already been shown to use understatements and not like to explicitly admits to what she's done. "Adam's yearly activities", "do what was required". It's not very surprising that she doesn't want to explicitly tell Emily "Don't question me or I'll banish you from Heaven, just like I did Lucifer." She likely doesn't want to admit it to herself, it's out of her hands, she doesn't have a choice, don't make me do this...
We don't know if it was Sera who threw Lucifer and Lilith into Hell, actually, I think there are more people above her, the angels we see in Lucifer's song "More Than Anything" when he says "I won't lose it all again" with all the spears pointed towards him, I read somewhere that those might be the 7 Virtues as opposed to the 7 Sins.
Seraphins are the closest to god, there shouldn't be anyone much People above sera but besides her like other seraphins. And although lucifer is an archangel, he's not weaker than sera but stronger since archangels are the front lines of heaven's army
The virtues are a class of angel that protect and serve everything pure and honest in creation. They are actually a fairly low ranking angel in the hierarchy because they interact with earthly means.
@@andrequintela976Archangels aren’t fighters, they are messengers. Archangels are actually the second lowest ranking beings in heaven, with only the basic angels being lower.
We just think of the archangels as powerful because revelations mentions the 7 archangels being present to herald the sealing of Lucifer and his followers in hell, with Michael being the one to announce the closing of Hell forever, though it doesn’t explicitly state they will put him there. They just announce the changing of worlds.
When you see an archangel, shit is about to hit the fan the likes of which humanity has never seen, though that’s not their power.
I know the show hasn't mentioned God or Jesus, but the existence of Saint Peter sure seems to imply a certain amount of Catholic lore, right? So is there a God up there making the rules, or in the show's universe are Christians just false prophets who made up their cosmology but happened to get Pete's name right?
@@andrequintela976 In Hazbin hotel Lucifer was also a seraphim, we know it because of his 6 wings, and because in the Spanish version of the song Hells Great dad talks about "Power of Seraphim"
Archangels do not have 6 wings, Lucifer does, he was a Seraphim, meaning that in heaven he was already very powerful
the first human soul in hell was lilith because she was casted into hell with lucifer the other human soul was probably the second human soul to go to hell the first person to commit the sin of envy and convinced adam to eat the apple is probably eve
Vaggie is still an Angel. She didn't die, so when singing "I be you Armor", it could also mean that she is going to protect Charlie, because she believes that no one in hell can hurt her.
I don't know if Valentino making Angel work 16 hours is vindictive or just what a lot of bosses would do if they could get away with it.
Personally the longest I ever worked was 14 hours but I think having a lawless society where you can basically have slaves by owning their souls would lead to a lot of 16+ hour shifts.
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I think in Helluva Boss it's kinda established that only angelic weapons can kill someone permanently. This is also touched on a bit in Episode 2 where Velvett mentions killing someone and waiting for them to "Put themselves back together".
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About the threat that heaven feels hell poses:
I feel like this is a bit more difficult because the narration at the start should probably be taken with a grain of salt. It's Charlie relaying a story she has been told by her mom(Most likely). So a unreliable narrator telling a story told to them by a unreliable narrator. The story goes that Lillith was empowering demons and their numbers and powers grew. I think reading in between the lines here it is very possible that Lillith didn't want to be in hell and was preparing an uprising which would line up with what Sera said was going to happen. I think we simply don't really know enough about Lillith to say if this is what was happening and if she could be reasoned with.
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With the narration at the start being unreliable and Sera talking about "protecting their owns souls" it also becomes questionable if Sera is the one who threw Lucifer into hell or if she just observed that Lucifer was dancing out of line and ended up "Fallen". If Sera doesn't know what gets you into heaven or hell something or someone must have designed that system. Which would be Hazbins version of God I guess. What if Lucifer and Lillith being sent to hell wasn't punishment but instead a chance for Lucifer to atone for introducing evil into the world when he gave humanity free will. In hell he can set misguided souls on the right path like Charlie is doing now.
But Lucifer maybe gave up too early and Lillith seemed to empower Demons in their evil not try to make them better.
This is obviously just speculation but at this point there is very little confirmed information to work with and a lot of hints at "You really don't know the full story"
I would be the one(s) deciding where the souls go and how double death and all that works are the two we saw in episode one when they mentioned the angels worshipped good (light face with a closed eye appears on left side of screen) and fought against evil (dark face with open red eye appears on right side of screen). Either a dualism God or two gods, good and evil.
Thinking about it, the Extermination risks Heaven.
Left to their own devices, the Sinners would be too busy tearing each other appart, but the Threat of the Extermination is something that could actually cause them to stop fighting each other and start raging war with Heaven.
Absolutely, Lucifer didn't fall, he was pushed. Also I wonder if next season will see Em also 'fall' and join the hotel, maybe even by choice, better fallen than a fraud.
42:21 you know... Charlie is definitly look up under Emilys Dress right now xD
Sera and the others don't choose who goes where so how would they know? People act like Sera is the one condeming people to hell but I don't think she has that authority.
As to the uprisings? Im pretty sure it said in the very beginning that Lillith was empowering demonkind and all of hells power was growing so there is every chance they fought. Given that Overlords and Sins seem to amass strength via Souls it makes sense that purging them might be the only stop gap measure to keep them from getting strong enough to overtake the world. So if the angels had to choose between flying down and killing a few thousand versions of growing Vox's and Vals and Alastors every year to prevent an all out assault on the world I can see why they'd do it.
Something I think a lot of people don't think about/remember is we are seeing 3-5 people in the show that are actively trying to better themselves. One is an angel who isn't from hell to begin with, one is a hellborn that is already happy go lucky, one is Angel(who admits in the beginning is only there for a free place to crash), and another is Sir Pentious. The rest of hell, for the most part, seems utterly content to shoot each other up, buy and sell souls, eat each other, drug one another, etc. They literally laugh Charlie out ofthe news studio for the idea of redemption. Even hearing the extermination was moved up 6 months wasn't enough to make any of them want to try for redemption.
Ultimately my guess is the show deals in greys. Heaven is by and large mostly good people with a few assholes(exterminators) and hell is by and large a lot of assholes and monsters with a few people trying to redeem themselves.
Sera mentions a soul passing Divine judgement before coming to heaven but they don’t know anything other then that.
Which definitely links up with how Serpentious goes directly to Sera and Emily once he died
Lute was actually saying the blasphemous thing was demon and angel relationships. Thats at least that what i believe
10:11 Adams face lmaoooo
just to speculate but maybe Lilith was the real threat, she grew in power and is basically blackmailing heaven in exchange for maybe information about something and give her commodities while the deal last which won't be long thanks to charlie lol
26:35 i think Vaggie swore too, at adam's list, but they didnt take note. Nor to adam really.
Seems like either morningstar/hell bias or subconcious angel bias
There is a fanart of Charlie, Vaggie and Emily with three panels, first is Charlie kissing Vaggie, then Charlie kissing Emily and lastly Vaggie kissing Emily with Charlie giving double thumbs up, i guess that's another way to build diplomacy lmao
54:50 Some other angels were shown in Lucifer's song. Maybe they are higher in the hierarchy and they kicked out Lucifer
Oh for goodness sake! You are jumping to conclusions way to early in the show. Just because Sera allow the Extermination, doesn't mean that she likes the idea either, she clearly did not enjoy it, she thought of it as a necessary sacrifice unlike Adam and Lute who are absolutely sadistic. Maybe there is more to Sera's decisions than we let out, yes it is hypocritical to our perspective, emphasize on our perspective, like she said before there is a lot that we don't know just yet. As for the uprising thing in Hell, maybe it is not what you think, maybe Lilith is not as nice or kind as we all assume her to be. Who knows at this point, it's too early to jump to conclusions and don't forget Lilith disappeared for 7 years! Who knows what she is up to during that time.
And Just because Angel Dust proves that Sinncers can improve for the better, doesn't mean that it would guarantee them a ticket to Heaven. Don't forget Lucifer also approves the Extermination too, he just tells them to kill the Sinners like no care in the world. Again, it is still too early in the show to jump to conclusions.
For the case of Abel, he did die before adam, so it got me thinking, either vivzi didn't took him into account or my theorie if Abel exist in this universe: Is Abel the one who juge mortal souls ?
Sorry watching again lol and i just wanted to clarify what i meant about charlie and her belief in redemption and what that means to those who need it. I as someone taught im unredeemable to come upon someone else who knows exactly as much as you about the way things work, they have to use thier faith just like you do, and they use that faith to not only believe in redemption but that YOU personally are capable of seeking it out and earning it. It almost gives me permission as the unredeemable to believe in the process through charlie instead of through myself. I dont trust myself to behave to do the right thing i have no self confidence so i borrow charlies instead. When my red smoke comes up (imagery from episode 2 val reminding angel of his possition) and that red smoke calls me worthless trash whose too stupid to understand simple concepts like what a hypocrit is i can fight those thoughts with charlies optism instead of my brainwashed pessimism....im not sure im making sense. She doesnt have to know everything, she simply has to have faith that if we try becoming better people something can and will change. Id be more moved by her belief in me than in the concept of redemption, I maybe dont deserve redemption but I do deserve kindness and understanding.
The joke is the characters themselves aren`t sure what happens to already dead souls in Heaven or Hell if they`re killed or "exterminated" again.
23:33 my guess is that husk can’t get into heaven if allistair owns his soul
If they are killed by any means other then angelic steel they come back eventually. Being killed by angelic weapons and they are dead for good
18:52 In courts it is not well seen to use dictionary references or definitions. Why? I don't remember, but it's a real thing. So well that's how it happens
i think you're the second reactor linking lute's appearance to amity. (not so average fangirl also said the same thing)
Far be it from me to defend anything Sera did, but I did notice she was the only elder angel that looked sad when Lucifer was cast into Hell. I think we'll find out in Season 2 that she had one of two likely positions in his life, either an elder sister/mother for him like she has been for Emily or a former lover and we'll learn Emily is Charlie's half sister.
In hazbin adam didnt eat the apple but if want bring up his “crime “ the poem where we learn about the app,e paradise lost states eve ate the aple when adam came back and saw he was horified and chose to eat an apple as its stated he loved eve so much he rather fall with her than watch her fall alone the same poem earleir he tells the angel rephiel he is so madly in love with eve and could not stand to lose her he also was sddened when eve wished to be alone adam showed codependency in paridise lost but its when eve was alone lucifer tricked her adam knew the apples shouldnt be eaten eve didnt because adam asked so many wuestions to the angels and was warned his desire for knolledge was bad
Considering how screwed over women get in the Bible, seeing Lilith get into heaven and live an easy afterlife is such a girl boss achievement that I can't help but respect it. Even if I don't end up liking her I can respect a women who takes back the good that Heaven denied her from the start and force them to acknowledge that they screwed her over from the jump and give her a break.
Fun Fact:The bunny chick in Heaven is Angel Dust`s baby sis Molly.
why do you hate saint peter so much
She's hell biased... 😂
51:11 look at her eyes she’s looking left you look left when your creating right when your remembering
To be fair on not using the term genicide the term was invented after ww2 by a jewish survivor and ratified by the un the term would not be commonly used by anyone from times before 1950s
Niffty and Emily are actually in their 20`s like their VAs, they just look younger than their actual ages and are shorter than their ages. Plus Niffty was a housewife in the 1950s on Earth and back then American women were super infantilized.
Just in time lmao
I still do not know how and why this meeting in this episode was ever allowed to happen. Why did Sera think she could keep the secret, when she invites people from Hell to speak freely in front of angels that do not know about it? Even just ANYONE from Hell could care to mention it, talk about it, but she allowed this to the Princess of Hell who's very reason to come was to talk about redeeming sinners in order to end the exterminations! THe fact that neither Charlie, nor Vaggie even says the word until Adam does is pure plot convenience, extreme luck for Sera. This episode is BS XD
43:46 I think Sera was referring more to an external thing, not to the reasons of heaven, but that there is something else that Charlie doesn't know, something that is about Sera. I don't believe God because as I remember he won't appear In the series, but there may be something. Look, I hate Sera as much as you do.But the truth is that it doesn't look like he wants to do what he's doing, but rather it seems like she has to do it.
Cause he'll got overpopulated and started a fight to overturn heaven under Lilith that's the whole reason for the extermination in theory I believe the more souls a demon has control over the more powerful they are so like a Lilith who's responsible for all souls in hell could mess stuff up while millions of souls split between overlords while they constantly chop away at the numbers doesn't quite add up
Adam never ate the apple, Lucifer offered the apple to Eve and Eve ate the apple and as punishment God threw Adam and Eve out of the Garden. It technically wasn't Adam's fault at all for getting kicked out but he got kicked out regardless (I don't remember but some do say that Adam knowingly did eat the forbidden fruit after Eve gave it to him and some say that Eve gave Adam the fruit and Adam ate it unaware it was the forbidden fruit). I don't remember how Adam had lived his life as a mortal but we do know he lived to the age of 930 and had three children. Cain, Abel, and Seth.
Then we have a story about where Cain murders his brother Abel ( I don't remember where Abel's soul went ) but we know that Cain was cursed by God himself to wander the Earth for all eternity, to never die.
Additional note: Their is nowhere in the bible that shows that Adam and Eve repented for their Sins, so we have no clue whether they are in Heaven or Hell. but honestly for the show's sake I really like the thought that Adam was once a really cool and nice guy who had gone to heaven and over his centuries of being in Heaven he started to progressively become worse
Sinners and fallen angels can only be killed with angelic steel but they are otherwise immortal. Hellborns and imps on the other hands are longer-lived than mortal souls but eventually will die of natural causes when God`s angels decide.
I'll never stand for Sera slander..
slander about what ?
C'mon, she's basically an equivalent of the leadership of the Social Democrats in Weimar Republic. Utterly inert and reactionary.
I stand by this. Until we get more information about Sera, this slander is just premature and unnecessary!
@@AndyVu-mz6cb slander about what ?
@@supattreewatanawong5025 The slander of calling Sera a horrible person when we barely know anything about her and her reasoning and the show is still too early to jump to conclusion.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of interaction or instructions from God in this series. They don't know what gets a person into heaven, they just know when a soul manifests.
I was raised in a cult the iblp. I have no education cause im a woman and i have one use and one use only. Im currently deconstructing (anti brainwash therapy) . There is something in this episode that my brain is trying to figure it out. But im guessing my brainwashing is preventing me from being able to process what im trying to glean from the episode. But something ive personally noticed as one of the unredeemable (ive committed exactly 2 unredeemable sins but the only one im willing to talk about is that i denied christ in a public forum as a way to completely cut ties with cult....hey look i am doing it again.) according to the cult ive done the unforgivable ive gone past the point of no return my soul deserves eternal seperation from light and love, my childhood definition of hell (a lot scarier than horny demons huh) there are no take backs. But charlie believes im not a lost cause and for some reason the fact that a cheerful cartoon princess believes im worthy of a second chance that im not trash, and evil makes me feel seen even though obviously im not seen shes a cartoon this isnt real. Ive dealt with my share of serah's in the cult, and the scene where shes sadly threatening the younger seraphim with excommunication....i have lived that scene more than once and sometimes with a physical punishment to really let me know im screwing up by asking why we do the things we did. Anyways i recognize all these pieces and parts but not what these parts mean for me and my recovery. I was so gaslit by the word hypocrit growing up i dont completely understand the concept...maybe thats where my brain wants to explore and why ive chosen your specific response video to watch over and over to try and figure this puzzle out. For the first time in forever i wish i had more friends so i could ask them a million questions about this episode. But thanks for uploading the reaction and giving me a safe space to explore outside of my own feelings and dispair to see what others are gleaning and learning. Thanks for sharing yourself and your thoughts in these videos, theyre heping a very scared woman process and you should be proud your emotional labor and editing, your kind words and your harsh ones too against the people i'd be to scared to go against have helped me cope.
Well, sinners can't reproduce in hell, so the exterminations aren't _technically_ genocide. That doesn't make it any more morally defensible, but I'm a pedantic person.
Fir...second.... Will watch later, about to clock into work.
What are we even talking about?
I’m not sure if it’s a theory or if it’s confirmed, all I know is a bunch of people say this. People like to say sinners can only be permanently killed by holy means, so if Angel were to be killed by say Valentino, he would respawn after some unknown period of time. I do not know if this is true so please take this with a grain of salt.
13:15 yeah! (Well Supposedly) isnt that _great?_ /sarcasm
just Angel do good thing is not enough evidence it clear that Heaven Angel have no say in who get to Heaven there only job is to take care soul that get in so as long as no soul can get from Hell to Heaven it will never be enough evidence
i doubt sera was one of the "elders of heaven". shes only a seraphim and Lucifer was an Archangel. the only people who could have cast him out would have been the other archangels or god themself
Actually Lucifer is also a Seraphim Angel and technically Arch Angels are lower rank than Seraphims. However Vivziepop may have combine Arch Angels with Older/Higher ranking Seraphim Angels. Kind of like how the Overlords are basically just more powerful versions of Sinners.
I don't know why i'm just noticing that right now but if there's a Saint Peter then Jesus must have been real too and if Jesus is real then God also is, i like where this is going lol