KEF KC62 Subwoofer Review of the FACTS // TRUE FREQUENCY RESPONSE of this Micro-Subwoofer?
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- What's the true frequency response of the Kef KC62 Micro-Subwoofer? Watch my Kef KC62 Subwoofer Review of the FACTS. Kef KC62 is a brand new micro-subwoofer in 2021.
What is Kef uni core?
The subwoofer features 2x 6.5" drivers in a unique 'uni-core' setup.
Instead of using two separate drivers with separate magnets, two drivers are incorporated into a system with one magnet and force cancelling technology.
Kef have promised an in-room subwoofer frequency response down to 11hz. Is this to be trusted?
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(do it, or I contact your mother)
Have a question? Pop it in the comments.
NOTES FROM KEF WEBSITE. THIS INFORMATION HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM THE KEF KC62 PRODUCT PAGE.
KC62 is an incredibly compact subwoofer that delivers the might and magic of deep, accurate bass for a thrillingly immersive music, movie and gaming experience. Created using innovative KEF engineering including the ground-breaking Uni-Core™ technology, the football-sized KC62 features two 6.5inch force cancelling drive units powered by 1,000W RMS of specially designed Class D amplification.
Deep and powerful bass is no longer solely the domain of big-shouldered, massive subwoofers. KC62 is David to their Goliath; an ultra-compact subwoofer capable of delivering accurate, deep bass for an immersive music, movie and gaming experience at complete odds with its modest dimensions. And just as David beat Goliath, so KC62’s performance renders these subwoofer behemoths obsolete.
Craving an immersive entertainment experience but put off by bulky subwoofers? KC62’s patent-pending Uni-Core technology revolutionises the traditional force cancelling design to deliver deep accurate bass from an ultra-compact cabinet. Combining both drivers into a single magnet system allows cabinet size to be reduced by over a third, while also increasing excursion to unlock exceptional output and depth.
KC62’s connection options allow it to be used with almost any audio system, with KEF SmartConnect and speaker level inputs eliminating any connection issues. Line output with HPF allows for exceptional fine-tuned integration, and KC62 is also compatible with the KW1 for simple wireless compatibility.
Crafted from extruded aluminium, KC62’s curved cabinet perfectly blends form and function, providing strength and beauty. Small enough to blend into any décor, the Carbon Black and Mineral White finishes also make KC62 an exceptionally attractive statement.
The P-Flex driver surround has a unique pleated design inspired by Origami, the Japanese art of paper folding, engineered to better resist the acoustic pressure in the cabinet to allow the driver to move more precisely compared to traditional surround designs. The result is deeper bass extension and a more accurate and detailed bass reproduction.
Accuracy is a KEF hallmark, whether in full-range loudspeakers or in subwoofers dedicated to delivering sensational bass. An array of innovative technologies come together to ensure KC62’s bass accuracy, including the P-Flex surround for precise driver movement and Smart Distortion Control Technology that reduces distortion, while performance is maximised via KEF’s Music Integrity Engine.
Model KC62
Design Uni-Core Force Cancellation
Drive units 2 x 6.5 in. drivers
Frequency response (±3dB) 11Hz - 200Hz
Max output 105dB
Amplifier type Built-in Class D
Amplifier power 1000W RMS (2 x 500W RMS)
Variable low pass filter 40Hz - 140Hz, LFE
Input RCA phono sockets
Speaker level inputs
Line output RCA phono sockets
Line output high pass filter 40Hz - 120Hz, Bypass
Power requirements 100-240 V ~ 50/60 Hz
Power consumption 1000W
Weight 14kg (30.9 lbs)
Dimension (H x W x D)
with rear panel and feet
246 x 256 x 248 mm
(9.68 x 10.07 x 9.76 in.)
---- VIDEO CONTENTS-------------
00:00 WHAT IS THE KEF KC62 MICRO-SUBWOOFER?
01:55 DECEPTIVE MARKETING MAKES ME MAD!
05:10 KEF KC62 11HZ FREQUENCY RESPONSE?
08:35 KC62 SUBWOOFER REVIEW OF THE FACTS
13:05 KC62 COMMENTS FROM FORUMS
14:30 IS KC62 GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY?
16:23 KC62 FOR MUSIC AND MOVIES?
17:13 KC62 RANT
17:50 LET'S DISCUSS || WHERE IS KEF GOING AS A COMPANY?
mandiscoverstech.com
#kef #subwoofer #kefkc62 #audiophile #audio #hifi #hometheater #KEFSubwoofer #subwoofers - Věda a technologie
*I'd Like to Know Your Opinions.*
1. Where do you think KEF is heading as a company? Still a true company for audiophiles or not?
2. What do you think of the KEF KC62's marketing? Gimmick or the real deal?
1. They still have the reference R and Q series which are all pretty decent. But they also been doing lifestyle for quite a while (T series, E series, KHT serie...)
2. The KEF KC62 is not the real deal by audiophile definition. It is by lifestyle standard.
To go further, I own a white SVS SB1000, I'm pretty sure it is better than the KC62. But i also live in an appartment, which mean that my sub and the rest of my gear are never used to reference level because I value good neighbour relationship. I also like how the KC62 look (really cute) and the smaller footprint. So yes, even with european prices, I could buy 3 SVS SB1000 for 1 KC62.
But even in white, the SVS subwfoofers are not good looking. They look man-cavy.
Bangs for the buck is a good argument, but there is no need to accuse KEF of trying to deceive customers.
This sub is not for audiophiles. Most of the people interested by this sub don't even care about the frequency. It is small and cute, which cut a good compromise in rooms where performance is not the most valuable metric.
@@lossendae6211 Hi mate, I really value the input you have given to the discussion. And I agree with your comments to a degree.
You say it's a lifestyle product, which I agree with. But they have marketed this sub to complement the LS50. Is the LS50 a lifestyle product, or would you call it for the hifi enthusiast?
I think the SVS SB1000 and SB2000 pro series have gotten better looking (wouldn't say they look man cavey, far from it in my opinion..perhaps you haven't seen my cave lol), but yes I think the lifestyle subs like the KC62 are better looking in a living room. My personal favourite is the B&W PV1-D which I think looks better. I imagine the performance will be fairly similar between the PV1-D and the KC62 (PV1-D claims a 6.5Hz bass extension, would you believe it lol..it's not just KEF doing this).
I don't believe the *intention* is deceit per se, but I think many people in the Hifi community would agree that the 11Hz marketing is a bit of a marketing gimmick/trick.
You just said that you expect the SB1000 to be better, but I don't see SVS saying that sub extends to 11Hz? I think they claim above 20hz for that model.
It's just too much marketing spin for me, I'm afraid. But you're entitled to your opinion which I respect.
Have a nice day!
@@propercushty The LS50 is an in-between product I think.
A hifi product leaning toward lifestyle. Not quite like a Devialet but with a design less "hifi" than most other products. And one of the minus point of the LS50 is the lack of bass. Audiophile, by european standards, don't value bass /price/performance as much as the american market. Flat are smaller too in general. So there is that.
The PV1D was my favourite sub back in the day (as far as look goes), when i could not afford such an expansive gear. It looked so good, in a Bang & Olufsen kind of way.
I put them all in a category of products that are more pleasing to your eyes than to your ears (and wallet) :)
@@lossendae6211 yeah I agree that the LS50 has a lack of sub-bass which is expected for the size. They are also relatively hard to drive so people need considerably better amplifiers than what they are using.
I wouldn't say just the LS50 is a lifestyle product from Kef's range. I would say it does lean that way, but in my opinion the lifestyle award goes to the new R3. If you look at the R3's colour options you will see what I mean (like the brown for example)
Perhaps 'LS' stands for lifestyle lol. Probably not though as I think they were made to remember the LS3/5a
@@propercushty The brown vinyl is a standard speaker color. Black and white colours are more lifestyle. But even in white or black, the R3 are way too big and imposing to be classified as lifestyle. Modern looking, but not lifestyle.
On the other hand, the LSX and LS50 blue, red or green colors are typical lifestyle colors. They even have assorted foot stand of the same color in the catalog.
And they can be played standalone. That's an important lifestyle motto: no need to buy and install an external amplifier.
Please explain how you review a product you’ve never seen or heard in person.
The same way Steve Guttenberg did mate. I address this point in the video. The title say it's a 'Review of the FACTS'
I am giving you solid facts about this subwoofer. Steve pretended to review the actual sub; you don't even see the KC62 once in his video. Why is he using nothing but stock images in his review? Did his camera break down? How about his smartphone? I just don't believe it. I'm sorry.
The facts I've found say frequency response down to 20hz @80db (comes from the mouth of a KEF employee). 80db is below THX spec for movies..so it is 100% factual for me to say it's not a great sub for movies!
I'm not the one who compared this small subwoofer to bigger subs claiming its better..Kef did that. I explained that in the video many times.
Another thing..I have heard the KF92 (the bigger version of this from KEF). I was shopping for subs last summer and came across that sub. Kef say the KC62 is meant to be half the bass output of the KF92. So, what did I think of the KF92? Not impressive. Impressive for the size, yes. But for the price and if you consider what else you can buy for that money, no.
So, I'm using the KF92 as my reference.
I guess you're either a Kef emloyee or a fanboy looking for an excuse to buy this sub. If you don't want to hear my opinion then that's ok. I'm just trying to save you money! No harm done!
@@propercushty Not an employee or a fanboy. I don’t currently own any KEF products, but when I come across a video that claims to be a “review” of a product, I expect that the reviewer has actually used said product. Calling your video a review is misleading at best. Defending that based on another CZcamsr doesn’t hold much water, either. But, carry on. I’ll keep looking for an actual review.
@@jimkyle571 Hi Jim. The definition of a 'review' just means to assess something and a provide critique. I have assessed this subwoofer based on the indisputable numbers I have found from a KEF employee. I have reviewed the numbers and they don't look good for people who want to watch movies. People in the forums would agree with me. At least I haven't wasted your money.
Now, if I wrote 'tested' or something similar, then I would agree with you and say I would need the product to hand and get some test equipment out and take measurements. I have tested enough products in my 15+ years of hifi experience to know what this sub is all about.
I used to be a buyer for a major tech retail chain (a very big shop in London which you will have heard of), so I know first hand how these companies work, so on this channel I choose to provide a real opinion without trying to sell you anything based on wishy washy facts or gimmick.
Yes, I will carry on saying what I have to say thanks. As long as 1 person gets some benefit from it that's alright with me.
You can watch Steve Guttenberg's channel if you like - he did a review where you don't get to see the sub. I'd recommend it to you.
@@jimkyle571 oh and by the way..you say you don't own any KEF products...why is it then on your CZcams channel you have a favourites playlist - the first video in that playlist is *How to set up KEF LS50 Wireless II on iOS* ..........?
Bit weird don't you think?
@@propercushty Wow, I didn’t expect you to stalk me over a negative comment. I find that frighteningly weird. I am interested in the W2s, but they are on backorder, so no I do not currently own any KEF products.
Why all the dislikes? Really good explained!
Thank you mate much appreciated!
Nice job. I've just posted on my YT community page with a breakdown of the frequency response graph from KEF's KC62 white paper. I'm with you on misleading data. Keep up the good work!
Cool mate thanks!
Brilliant. Well said. Thanks.
Was a pleasure :)
KEF published a white paper for the KC62 recently, it is available from the KEF web site on the KC62 page.
Some facts from this document:
The Xmax is at least 15 mm (they show a graphic on page 5 of linearity of the flux density in the two voice coil gaps which goes from -15mm to +15mm). On that basis, two 6.5 inch drivers can theoretically produce 82.8 dB at 11 Hz (e.g. using the online Baudline piston excursion calculator).
Page 8 shows some frequency response curves at 1 metre, at several listening levels. Also included are additonal dotted lines, showing the in-room frequency response. This takes into account the low frequency enhancement in a typical room.
From these curves it can be seen that the 1m frequency response curve maxes out at around 81 dB at 11Hz, but in-room they are saying it maxes out at about 95 dB, because of room gain. The curves also show the maximum output of 105 dB
Also, it is pretty clear that KEF's claim of 11 Hz +/-3dB is based on in-room frequency response, not anechoic chamber measurements.
Hi Dave. Thanks for sharing these facts. It's nice to have somebody comment who understands the principles and properties of loudspeaker design.
Firstly, my qualm is with the marketing practices. First of all, if a human being cannot even hear a frequency of 11Hz, then why is it a relevant figure at all? B&W say their PV1-d extends to 6.5Hz..so what does that really mean to Joe Bloggs walking into a speaker shop (hard to imagine that now with Covid!). Does it mean anything real to anyone, or is it simply a game of numbers? I think the latter.
Secondly, look at the frequency response curves you mention; an 'average room' and 'average room gain' isn't precisely defined from what I can see. The recommended room size for this sub is 5-50 square metres (so what's the average they are drawing from..is it 5sqm, 50sqm, or somewhere in between ?). I can't fathom how 50sqm would be appropriate for a subwoofer this size. I have an XTZ 12.17 Edge, 12 inch high excursion driver, ported model, with 700w Class D Icepower amplification...and that isn't truly enough for my 18sqm room at reference levels.
Thirdly, I'm interested in how low this KC62 can dig before we hit considerable roll-off. In anechoic conditions, the subwoofer can't manage 30Hz before rolling off around 75dB. Turn the volume up higher to 'moderate' levels, and we see the sub rolling off at 50Hz. So we are trusting that room gain will save the day.
Finally, the graphs don't suggest to me that this subwoofer will be able to play music/movies properly if we take into account dynamic headroom. A piece of music (and a movie) doesn't stay at a constant decibel level - we have dynamics that are at least 20dB above and below average dB. If you take away the dynamic range, you take away the music. As a musician and former music technology engineer, I can tell you that and bet my house on it. Do you remember the loudness wars?
-----
In summary, I still think this KC62 subwoofer is a fantastic piece of loudspeaker art (truly). What it achieves in the space it takes up is nothing short of fantastic. The Uni-Core technology is a brilliant idea, and I do say that in the video.
I just don't agree with the marketing. It feels akin to the EU emissions scandal from a few years ago (not quite as severe admittedly). Companies need to be held accountable and I think these speakers/subwoofers should all be measured to a defined standard by an independent body. I'm not sure if this is already the case because I don't work in the industry, but the variance in data from the speaker companies I have looked in to, is too big to ignore.
Perhaps a better comparison would be to TVs that claim 1 trillion : 1 dynamic contrast ratio...you bring the TV home and you still don't have true blacks.
One such example from the speaker industry is Kef's R3. Now, I heard that loudspeaker last year back in spring after the first lockdown. Kef say in-room response of that loudspeaker is 30Hz at -6dB and a frequency range from 38Hz-50kHz.
On the other hand, my Dali Opticon 6 floorstander speakers claim a frequency extension down to 49Hz +/- 3dB. They don't even publish -6dB from what I've seen.
I've heard those two speakers side by side: the Dali knocks the R3 out of the park in bass performance, both extension and SPL (as you'd naturally expect). Despite the R3 being a lovely loudspeaker, I do think Joe Bloggs will walk into a shop and truly expect the R3 to outperform the Dali Opticon 6 in bass if they look at the spec sheet and/or ask an uninformed salesperson.
With all these lockdowns at present, people don't get to go into speaker shops for proper demos: they have to rely on spec sheets they read online (and the spec sheets have to make sense to them). Many speaker shops don't allow customers to do home demos without a restocking fee. So this is a real problem in my opinion.
I hope you agree with some of the points I've made! Sorry..I think my response went on too long lol.
@@propercushty I have some sympathy for KEF on the use of in-room frequency response curves - what they are saying is that at very low frequencies, anechoic chamber measurements don't actually relate well to the results in a room, because of room gain. After all, we don't listen to music in an anechoic chamber...
I do recognise that there is a difficulty, than not all rooms behave the same - you could perhaps put it more than practically, all rooms will be different. So I think what they are attempting with the KC62 (and KF92) is to produce low frequency performance that takes account of average room gain, and then include the ability to tailor the response to meet the actual conditions in each individual room. And of course with additional room treatment, DSP and possibly the use of multiple subwoofers, one can produce a very even low-frequency response. The KC62, being very small, lends itself well to having two or even four units - although four of them will be a pretty tidy sum to contend with!
@@daverussell6852 Hi Dave. Yes that makes sense to me, but in my opinion that room would have to be a precisely defined and standardised measurement, which I'm not sure I saw on the white paper doc.
For me, what took the biscuit was the 11Hz on the spec sheet. I think KEF have been overly vocal about this spec. And we know the reason why..it's because they want to sell more subwoofers isn't it? I think alot of brands out there could replicate this marketing practice if they really wanted to. It's a bit too liberal for me!
Another thing to consider is something I learned from my acoustics course years ago (which I had to do as part of music tech training). And that is bass frequencies are interpreted very differently by the human ear vs other frequencies.
To quote the Institute of Professional Sound, 'At low sound levels, for a sound at 50 Hz to be perceived as equally loud as a 1 kHz sound, the lower frequency would have to be about 30 dB higher in level. However for very loud sounds, the ear is relatively much more sensitive at low frequencies, and the difference reduces to about 10 dB'.
*I'm sure* KEF must have taken this into account when publishing their measurements - didn't thoroughly check the white paper document for exact details (been very busy today).
But in any case that would be something to look into if you're interested. If their measurements aren't published as weighted then the subwoofer would need to produce even more SPL to sound the same to our ears.
Even if those 6.5" drivers can muster 90db in room at 11hz, which I think is a best case scenario, it'll still be waaaaay under what humans need to perceive that frequency.
@@coldcraze Exactly! People don't understand that our ears don't work in a linear fashion like microphones. When you take into account weighting, these figures just mean nothing of real value to Joe Bloggs walking into a speaker shop.
I accept the new magnet system is a pretty good piece of engineering - fine. Just means you'll be able to manufacture slightly smaller subs.
Doesn't mean we need to start telling people biblical stories about David and Goliath though lol
also, making these statements how its imposibble to have that sound from that small box, is like saying its impossible to have 250hp from 3 cylinder engine.
It's simply misleading marketing. KEF say this subwoofer is like 'David to Goliath'. If you dig even deeper, they also say it's about 'half the bass output of the KEF KF92'.
I tried the KF92 last year when I was shopping for subwoofers. That thing wasn't that great, especially for the money. I'd still prefer an SVS SB 3000 or SB 4000 for the price. I'd rather the subwoofer take up a tiny bit more room and have a genuine performance thank you.
So, if KEF say themselves that the KC62 is half the volume of a KF92, then everything I've said in the video is accurate. I don't need to have the subwoofer in hand to know how loud it can play. Kef say it themselves!
Fact is, it's not suitable subwoofer at reference levels, so I wouldn't recommend this subwoofer to anybody serious looking for good value and high performance.
Thank you :)
@@propercushty you are so mistaken in so many levels. Let me ask you, what is your home theatre(or stereo setup) consisted of, what have you tested in your home and used for longer then a demo in some store? then we can continue this discussion. till then, you are yabbing about something you have no clue about.
@@joei4ever Seeing as you're so interested about my life, I'll open up to you if it helps you see my side.
I've been a Hifi and Home Theatre enthusiast for more than 15 years. I've wasted A LOT of money on gear over the previous 2 decades..so I know when I spot marketing BS and can tell the difference.
I'm also a classically trained violinst, pianist, music producer, and I went to an internationally recognised music school (so I think I know a thing or two about music and acoustics thank you).
In my 20s, I was a senior buyer at a top electronics store that specialised in high-end Hifi in London (you have definitely heard of the store). I know how these companies work like the back of my hand. I know the stories they tell to get you to spend your money blindly. I had meetings with these people *every week*! Every week, the marketing team would ask 'how can we tell a story about this?'
So Gabrijel...ask yourself, why would I lie to you? What do I have to gain? I'm not being paid and my channel is ALL ABOUT NOT ACCEPTING any free stuff, because it would compromise my ability to tell the truth to my subscribers and new viewers.
I like talking facts, not storytelling. I'm not the one talking about David and Goliath..I'm not the one chatting smack about how Japanese Origami is compared somehow to subwoofer drivers. That is KEF's job, not mine. If this subwoofer is so great, why doesn't KEF publish all the measurements..be my guest and guess why?
So I think I do know what I'm talking about, thank you. There is no need for you to try and degrade my opinion because quite frankly, you're a bit of a fanboy and you need to snap out of your hypnotic state.
For you to assume I'm an idiot because you watched 1 video is:
1) Rude and mean-spirited
2) Incredibly bigoted and ignorant
What does that say about you?
Don't judge a book by its cover, Gabrijel.
I haven't judged you, so there's no need for you to judge me!
The fact I have hurt your feelings by making this video tells me that you have some deep-routed emotional connection to the KEF brand. So while I do respect you have an opinion, it's too subject to bias for me to take notice of :)
Have a good day....and if you do buy this subwoofer, make sure you buy a few other subs to compare it against in the price range. Then take it home and demo it with some music, movies and gaming. When you find out I was right, the considerate thing to do would be to come back to this channel and let me know :D
Cheers
The Man
@@propercushty I asked you a simple question. What do you have in your home theater setup and what is your experience with KEF products in your home? thanks
@@joei4ever go back through my videos and you will find your answer mate. It will take you 1 minute.
Clearly the people who dislike the video didn't watch the entire video. I think you made your points really well, and brought up some really interesting information. 😁👍
Anyway, you gained a sub and a "click of the bell icon for all videos" from me lol. So keep doing what you do and don't let the dislikes get you down. 🤗 They probably haven't heard the kc62 either lol 😂
P.s. your editing is amazing, you must of spend so much time adding effects. 😎👍
I appreciate this comment so much. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to leave me this!
Thank you so much for subscribing: I'll continue to do my best and provide people with real information/my honest advice.
Dislikes are just a fact of life..they don't really bother me anymore. The dislikes actually make me happy to tell you the truth; I see other CZcams channels get 100:1 like to dislike ratios, so I know some of those channels must be paying for those likes: it's incredible really lol!
Thank you very much for the comment on my editing. I don't put this much time into every video unfortunately: only when I think it makes sense to. At the moment, this channel is very new and doesn't get enough views to justify the extra time! For example, sometimes I will spend basically a day with editing, then I publish the video and I get like 5-10 views a day! Soul destroying stuff lol!
Fortunately, this video did quite well and you were kind enough to mention that the editing was good.
Thank you again :)
@@propercushty thanks so much for your reply. 🤗 Time for me to go put some more watch time on your other video's (☺️ looking forward to it). 😉✌️
You went into such great detail, I'm looking forward to seeing this in your other video's (although I think this video might have featured a little more explanation than most, to establish a base lvl of knowledge for the viewer. As kef changed a lot in this small box [sadly not the physics 😂] ) . 😁👍
Aww that must be disheartening, but just remember how long a speakers shelf life can be. 🤗 Your videos will be helping customers for decade's to come. 😁✌️ Providing REAL information to help people. 🤗👍 So I'm sure your viewership will grow with time.
P.s. Quick side point, but I'd love to hear your opinion on it. 😉
I find "Consumer" is such an ugly word...
"The customer is always right." When did I become a consumer? (I'm not planning on eating the speaker. 😂)
But seriously I want to be treated as a "customer" not a "consumer".
Thanks once again for your reply, and look forward to future content. 😁✌️
@@UncleRichie101 haha that's such a good point 'consumer' vs 'customer'...I never really thought about it like that. Consumer makes it sound more like we are test subjects for firms to experiment on. I'll remember that for next time!
As you just watched the Kef KC62 video, I thought I'd let you know that a new video about this subwoofer is launching today. It's being produced in the background as I type this.
It is a comparison video between the new SVS 3000 Micro and the KC62 basically. Thought you might be interested!
Thanks again for your kinds words: they gave me motivation!
this subwoofer does not have to be very load. It is for sure not a sub for homecinema. its more for music under 90 db playback volume!
thanks for the warning, I was interestet in buying this sub, so I would have waited for a review anyway. but in any case I will now be more cautious with my decision. go ahead
Thank you! By all means, watch the product reviews when they come out. And I encourage you to take the subwoofer home and do a demo. Just make sure you take home 2 or 3 other subwoofers so you can test alongside this Kef KC62.
Looking at the numbers, in my humble opinion it doesn't look to good if you're looking for a seriously capable system
I just ordered this sub to pair with my LS50 wireless 2 over the Rel T9, if I don't like the Kef I'll just take it back and get the Rel.
Hello mate! Thanks for letting me know about this. No doubt the KC62 will be a great sub for the size (I never disputed this in the video). I just think people are getting their hopes up and I don't want to see people make a 1.4k mistake! Speaker shops can be a bit funny about returns too, like they'll only take it back if you pay a 'restocking fee' and such.
I've heard the REL T9i actually. Very musical subwoofer and decent for the price. It's bigger than the KC62 as you'd expect, but not by much. The difference which alot of audiophiles prefer is that the REL T series uses Class A/B amplification, whereas the KC62 is using Class D. That's up for debate, I think there's advantages of both. But many people will tell you the Class A/B subs sound more 'natural' with music whereas the Class D subs have more 'impact' .. if that makes sense?
My advice would be to try both subs at the same time mate, because that way you can do A/B testing side by side and see for yourself!
In any case, let me know! I'm interested to know how you get on :D
@@propercushty I completely understand where you're coming from and my local store doesn't have the KC62 in display so they promised no restocking fee should I not like it. I've only heard the T7 but not the T9 although I really enjoyed the T7. I'll check back on this post when I received both subs and make my final decision.
@@FatedMaster1907 cheers mate looking forward to it!
Im thinking about buying rel s812. Heard it, and it was absoloutly amazing. But I'm not that experienced. What do you think? I'd have consider rythmic if their subs were availables in my country.
Btw, I have the kef ls50 w 2...
Hello mate and thanks for the message.
So here's my take on it. Haven't heard the S812 (yet), but I have heard the 212/SX which I was considering last year. I just didn't think it was worth the money (I am also poor, so every £1 saved is alot to me!).
The 212/SX was just what I was looking for though in terms of the performance. Very nice - you could get an all-round beautiful sound with that subwoofer. Great for movies and music.
The S812 is based on similar tech and is of the same range. So I am also sure that would be great.
However...
99% of the time, I would recommend people go for 2 subwoofers rather than 1 expensive one. Why? It helps fill in the sound because your room will sound 'peaky' in places and there'll be 'holes' in the bass in some other locations. To put this into perspective, if I got 2 speakers and removed the bass from of one of them, how would that sound in a Hifi setup do you think?
Stereo subs just make sense..even more so for music I think because you need those subs to match the 2 speakers (you almost don't want to hear the subs are switched on).
The S812 will most likely be great..but is it worth the money if you're only buying one?
My money would rather go on two subwoofers in the £1000-1300 range (not sure what currency you're working with). In the UK that would be something like the SVS SB3000 (x2) or the REL T9i (2x) and you even save some cash with the latter option.
That's just me though..I would demo both options and see what you like best.
By the way...this channel doesn't cover one specific topic within Hifi and Home Cinema. It is more an all-round tech channel and Hifi is one of my strong topics.
If you're especially interested in subwoofers there is a great channel I've been a fan of for a long time called Subwoofer 101. If you go to that channel, you'll probably notice that our advice overlaps!
Have you seen KEF kf92 video from spare change? He had duals in room outputting more than 100db in 10hz. It's a bit bigger sub but the tech has come further now.
I've actually heard KF92 at a demo in a showroom when I was subwoofer shopping last summer. It was alright, a tidy-sounding subwoofer for sure, but I still wasn't very impressed to tell you the truth. When you consider one KF92 costs £2000, it really is just too much money to buy 2 of them for 4 grand. For 4 grand I could buy two very good subwoofers like the SVS SB3000, and I would have money left over for a 5.0 surround speaker system. I wouldn't call the SB3000 a big subwoofer...it's 14 inches cubed..hardly massive?
Another great option would be something like a Rythmik sub - those guys know what they're doing.
The point I'm trying to make in this video is that Kef can make good subwoofers, but notice their aim is to make good, *small* subwoofers at a high price. My advice is for people who want better performance from slightly bigger subwoofers at a much better price point.
Hope this helps!
@@propercushty SB is nice but falls off under 20hz. I've had it and the PB 3000. Now using 2 arendal 1961 sub 1s and I'm happy.
@@arikononen4022 yeah you're right they do roll off (but less steeply than the ported) and the SPL is alot lower than the ported (as you'd expect).
Reason I compared with SB is because the KEF subs are also sealed, so just saying I'd prefer SVS sealed to the Kef sealed as I feel you get alot more for the money.
Oooh Arendals are pretty fancy subs actually. I've heard a few things about them, but never had the chance to demo. I like how they publish their real measurements too.
Any good? I was tempted once but I am really looking for either 15 or 18 inch sealed these days
Do you any experience with the new SVS 3000 micro and whats your option on it?
Hello mate. I've now got the 3000 Micro for testing. I am getting the KC62 tomorrow and I'm going test them 1 on 1 :D.
If you're subscribed you shouldn't miss out!
@@propercushty awesome, I'll look forward to it 👍
I've actually heard this, in comparison with the KEF Kube10. It doesn't deliver rumble on par with that of its larger, older sibling, but the bass is cleaner and tighter, with better texture. Despite the Kube10's cheaper cost - about 50% of the KC62 - I happily ordered the latter to pair with my LSX. For a small bedroom, the combination is quite fantastic.
Good for you mate! I think people might have the wrong impression of me as they assume I don't like the subwoofer...this isn't true..I believe it has the makings of a great compact subwoofer, but I just don't agree with the marketing and I believe the price is too high! For a small bedroom I bet it is wonderful!
Hope you continue to enjoy your new system!
You sound a lot more suspect than their advertising... Might want to work on that just in case you have something of value to say in the future. Audiophiliac review is from hearing it and includes no tests or review of the low end frequencies...
Yep, ok. I respect your opinion but it can't have much weight. I'm not doing this for money: he is.
Thanks
😂😂😂🤷♂️ I have one and it’s fucking awesome. I don’t know what this guy is on about.🤷♂️
he's talking our of his ass, ive got one as you say its amazing
Subwoofer101 find a very simple sentence on this topic.
There is a huge difference between going deep and sounding deep. Most subwoofers go deep like this KC62, but 😁
yes I agree. Subwoofer 101 is a very good channel I would recommend it to anybody
No disrespect to you bro but CONSIDERING THE SIZE of the enclosure.... if the KC 62 has an anechoic frequency response that drops to -3dB at 20 Hz while hitting 80dB SPL it is a fucking amazing little subwoofer and I'd probably be happy to buy one as long as its output doesn't affect its accuracy and articulation.
Hello mate, you alright?!
I 100% agree with you. It's no doubt a very nice subwoofer for the size, but consider there are 2x 6.5 inch woofers too. The B&W PV1-D claims frequency down to 6.5Hz from 2x 8 inch woofers..do I agree, no I don't! However, they provide more detail around that on their spec sheet (I am announcing that in my next video).
My issue is only the marketing behind the product..not the product itself. As a youtuber, I get many people asking me my opinion on this sub for home cinema and gaming would you believe it, so I had to make this so people buy the right sub for the purpose!
By the way, the 80db SPL @ 20hz anechoic is not published by Kef, and somebody had to email Kef for that response. Considering max dB is 105, then I'd imagine this sub really is nowhere near 20hz at reference levels. I think there is more info in the white paper document, but the data mentions 'average room gain' which we have to trust and I can't see an exact definition of what 'average room gain' is or what they consider an 'average room'.
And yes you're right..it's output will be affected no doubt because of all the EQ that needs to be applied for it to reach those levels.
I understand if you are experienced within Hifi, this video is a bit annoying which is why people are disliking the video. But I'm not making the video for them really, it's mainly for people who want a bit of help and advice.
Hope this makes sense mate and sorry if I didn't get my point across in the video.
Btw...one thing we can agree on is that I am also a Yamaha fanboy!
...and you're some tech expert ?
hehe
What do you think of Buchardt A500 bookshelf speaker going down to 25hz ?
Hello mate. I do rate Buchardt audio - I think they make genuinely great speakers when you look at what is put into them. I prefer brands that are more transparent about internal components.
Buchardt speakers are a bit expensive seeing as they're direct-to-manufacturer, but I do think it's a better deal than most out there.
The A500 suggests it goes down to 25hz flat...broadly, I would agree that the speaker is able to do meet that spec. The measurements taken online at audiosciencereview suggest it is legit. Consider that those measurements are taken at 75db which is a fairly decent volume for music.
The other side of the argument is the dynamic headroom. The speaker won't handle peak dynamics in music down to 25hz..no way. Most subwoofers struggle to do that! So they can't have much bass impact when there is a sudden boost in dB. It's these moments within music that makes music most engaging!
Then again, no bookshelf speaker can achieve those levels, so this doesn't take anything away from Buchardt!
Are you considering this speaker at the moment?
It certainly worth considering as i cannot think of other product that can package so many features, like eq, sub, streaming all in one. It is too good to be true to be able to have some taste of the lower end from bookshelf at casual listening volume.
Sorry for going off topic but when talk about speakers that claim to defy physics, this and new kef subs come to mind.
@@hansiangng2808 lol I agree. This industry is a numbers game and I think it doesn't end well for the consumer. It is very similar to the TV industry where Samsung will say this TV has 1 trillion : 1 contrast ratio...take the TV home and we still don't have true blacks! How is this possible?
I don't mind going off topic at all; to me, this conversation isn't just about the KC62 itself, it is about speaker industry marketing practices: so, compare away.
I think you can't go wrong with that Buchardt, because they are decent enough to allow you to trial it properly in your own home. That can't be said when buying speakers from your regular speaker shops: restocking fees often apply, or you have to hope they have an open-box model available. That annoys me too much and has put me off purchasing many times in the past.
Another loudspeaker I've heard which I thought was very nice was the Wharfedale Evo 4.2 and the Kef R3 was a clean-sounding loudspeaker too. But I guess you are after an active model so there isn't really much else I know of that comes close to the Buchardt really!
One thing to mention, because the Buchardt has that flat(ish) response down to 25hz, my advice is you're going to want to have an ability to apply room correction. Room modes might be a problem, so you might get peaks in the lower frequencies that become overbearing.
Conclusion: the room is the most important factor that determines the sound you hear!
@@propercushty wow i totally agree with you on the room. I have been spending a great deal of time experimenting like every few months, trying to achieve the best possible bass response and imaging thru position/toe-in and manual eq in my living room for my Kef R7! The bass repsonse for my left spkr is too strong that i had to plug in the bottom port to balance with the right.
To me, measuring and flattening the lower freq is a must, eventhough most prefer direct/no eq at all.
p.s. i envy people in countries where customers can buy and hear it in your room setting and return if not satisfied.
@@hansiangng2808 Yeah, totally mate. The most important part of your setup is the room. That is the weakest link of the signal path. Most of the time, the signal path is squeaky clean up until the point the signal meets the transducer and the acoustic energy gets radiated to the listener.
The ideal scenario is to get a wire directly from the amp and connect it to you brain lol. The second best option is to get a pair of headphones.
With speakers that's always going to be an issue, so I would recommend getting a professional microphone and run tests on your room (mic must be professional quality, otherwise it's no good - the ones included in the AV receiver box won't cut it).
Once a measurement has been taken, you get a picture of exactly how your room works and you can start making plans about how you're going to address it. I've heard speakers below £500 sound way better than speakers above £3000 simply because they're more appropriate for the room.
I have heard the R7s last year. One of my relatives got the R3 and R7 from the shop to demo (after lockdown). R3 worked alot better in that room. R7 felt domineering in the sub-bass...almost like there was a subwoofer on and it was not nice at all (especially with the crispy highs). Plugging in the ports is not the ideal situation, because your speakers are not acoustic suspension design, they are a bass reflex design. That means the drivers are also designed for bass reflex enclosures I believe. The port plug is the last resort (never sounds quite right), so I'd try and get the room sorted as much as you possibly can!
I wouldn't believe when people say 'don't apply any EQ whatsoever' etc. I've worked in music studios and producers EQ studio monitors there to get a flat response - so why not with Hifi? If the room is distorting the signal, then room EQ is the lesser of two evils. I can understand the argument a bit more if we are using analogue sources, but in the digital age with parametric equalisation at our disposal, I don't get the point trying to keep the signal 'pure'.
That is a shame that you can't demo your speakers, because home demo is the most important aspect. More important than a reviewer, more important than forums and even measurements.
Where are you from? Your name looks Korean, but forgive me if I'm incorrect!
Where is KEF headed? I think quite simply they are headed towards what is selling. The audiophile space is niche. Not a whole lot of people will to spend that kind of money on speakers. They had huge success with the LS50. Sold more than anything else so when they came up with this “Meta” tech it’s no surprise it went to the LS50 first. I kind of think of them as making HiFi available to more people.
I just bought the LS50 wireless 2. To my ear they sound amazing and for $2,500 with the amp, DAC and all it makes a whole lot more sense for the common man. I think this sub is directed at that audience. I personally will probably pair them with a REL t7i and not the KC62 though.
This video affirmed that decision for me so thank you for that.
Hello Peter. It's nice to see a detailed response.
I really agree with you. That is basic traditional economic principles right there, that firms are profit (welfare) maximisers. And there's nothing wrong with that at all..good on them for making such a lucrative speaker company. I think they're trying to emulate the success of B&W as that luxury British audiophile brand. I just feel a little bit like I'm being sold magic beans with this sub lol.
I think the LS50 are great speakers..not the best I've heard, and maybe a tad overhyped, but they look great and I think the tangerine waveguide is one of the best out there for treble dispersion. I'm due to hear the LS50 Meta soon, which I'll be doing a review on, and I'm looking forward to that.
I agree that the LS50 Wireless 2 is a great deal. They sound a darned sight better the LS50 passive as most people underamp the passive versions.
Good luck with your REL sub mate..I am sure you'll be happy!
@@propercushty thanks for the response. :)
Yea they definitely were trying that luxury thing and then someone in account stood up in a meeting and said, “here is where our profits come from” and that was that 😂.
This for sure seems like magic beans. Their marketing folks had a field day with this one. If they dropped the price to $1,000 and were more conservative and open about the specs I would be fine with it.
I’m sure there are better speakers out there but he whole package is enticing and I know for sure my ear is not as trained as yours.
Enjoy your content and perspective... subbed
Take care buddy
@@pmizz7959 Lol I totally agree haha! When I bought my LS50s last year, why did I feel like I was buying a Rolex? I never felt like that when I bought my iQ7's back in 2008 lol. The brand has changed my man :D
I mean I am not here to throw mud at Kef, other brands do it too (B&W for example). Do you know they claim their PV1-D has a frequency extension down to 6.5Hz! They're even worse than KEF! Hahaha that one had me on the floor with laughter. I thought 'Woahh...I've never seen single digits before?'
Cheers bud and thanks for the sub! Will enjoy chatting with you in the future videos!
Thanks, i was really wondering how they did that. But thats cheating for me, i really was thinking its better than my dual Klipsch r12sw setup.
no i highly doubt it is better mate!
Hi!, I was wondering if you can give me any advice on a subwoofer just for music? I dont watch any movies this is 100% just for music. I heard that subwoofers are only for movies so I don’t know if it would make music alot better when using a sub. I haven’t heard any subwoofer before though. Appreciate it if you can give me some advice!. Huge thanks
hello mate not a problem and thanks for the question.
The thing is..people say 'subwoofer for music' vs 'subwoofer for movies' and it is kind of a myth in a way. A subwoofer for movies isn't necessarily a bad subwoofer for music. A subwoofer for movies tends to be larger because it needs to produce more bass output. A true subwoofer for movies should be able to play low (at least 20hz or lower) and play loud (basically). A real subwoofer for movies will be hitting 110db or more at these lower frequencies.
A subwoofer for music still has to play low, but perhaps it doesn't *need* to play *as* loudly. However, it doesn't mean we should forget about the lowest notes and it doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to play with some dynamic range.
That's why if I were to recommend a real subwoofer for music, I'd prefer the subwoofer to be able to hit lowest notes at around 100db. I think below 100db and you might be compromised in certain pieces of music, especially if the music has any dynamic range to speak of.
Most people don't understand how important the lowest frequencies really are. The lowest note on a piano is 27.5hz, so there is a definite need to produce those frequencies with effect.
My advice would also depend on your budget? What is your budget exactly? Do you have any ideas yet?
Hello! thanks for the reply, my budget would be 5000$ and bellow. Based on my research so far my idea is im looking for a subwoofer that is tight and fast and not boomy and sloppy. would more than 1 sub be a benefit or just 1 is enough? for example on some of the planar headphones that I have like the audeze lcd x when I listen to rock it reproduces the kick drum and its really tight and fast if you get what I mean.
@@tomvu9353 hello mate - that's a pretty good budget right there. Don't look into it too much when people say 'tight bass' or 'boomy and sloppy bass'. This is exaggerated nonsense. No subwoofer manufacturer selling you a $5000 subwoofer is going to sell you a sub that sounds boomy. Not 1 firm will do that! This is an old debate which people have with sub-$1000 subwoofers.
If you want it for music only, then it would be hard not to recommend you a sealed subwoofer rather than a ported; so that's one thing. Sealed subwoofers tend to produce more accurate bass with lower resonance due to there being no port.
$5000 is a great budget. If you want the best sound, always, always, get yourself 2 subwoofers. Your system runs in Hifi stereo, so it only makes sense you have 2 locations where bass is being produced. If the bass comes from 1 location, the sound produced will be harder to integrate and will be less equal at each listening position.
Do you have size requirements too? Like, how big can the subwoofers be? And how big is the room? And which speakers are you pairing the subs with?
Let me know and I'll help you out, my pleasure
Hi, sorry for the late reply. I will be pairing them with the kef ls50 wireless. would pluging them directly out of the back of the kef ls50 work?, there is a plug that says subwoofer. My room is around 20x30 feet. I don’t have size requirement any size will be fine.
@@tomvu9353 You can still use two subs via that sub output. You could just use a Y-splitter and it'll do the jobs. You'll need to do a rough calibration on each subwoofer though.
Sounds like a large room to me. I guess SPL will be limited by those LS50s. If you definitely want to spend something like $5000 then two Arendal 1723 2S subs will be the very best option you can buy.
But I guess this also depends on whether or not you want the subs to be small like the KC62, or are you ok having moderate sized subs?
Well I also have my doubts but I guess you have to try it before you knock it 🤷♂️
I didn't knock the sub, I am knocking the marketing. 11Hz doesn't mean anything to anybody. I think many people misunderstood the meaning of this video
@@propercushty well I have seen many companies claim frequency responses that are a bit questionable at best. You’ll be very busy making videos if you decide to talk about everyone of them 🤷♂️
@@arongatt yeah I agree mate. But I think companies like Kef and B&W are taking the mick a little bit wouldn't you say?
Think about all the big subwoofer companies out there. I've seen figures down to 20hz, even 16hz (from huge boxes). But I've yet to see 11Hz or 6.5Hz as Kef and B&W claim.
Seems silly and I think it's wrong. But you're entitled to your opinion!
Do you belive that are subs goes to 20hz in a normal listening room or better do you have space in a average listening room for a wave of 20hz to be heard or felt? If yes you must believe that the kef does 11hz.... They are both wrong
I believe almost any subwoofer can achieve 20hz, but they are not true subwoofers.
Because I am a musician, I have to give people an example from classical music which I hope makes sense. If I had to paint a picture, imagine an orchestra, but half the bass section didn't turn up. If half the bass section doesn't turn up, the music won't sound as good right? The violins and all the other high-frequency instruments will be overpowering the bass instruments.
And you're right..a 20hz bass wave is about 17m I believe, so it's very difficult to get right in a room with normal dimensions.
In one of my next videos, I am going to be proving with Maths and Physics what this subwoofer is actually capable of in terms of sound pressure. I think this video will be of value to you, so if you're not subscribed yet, I would recommend it!
You really shouldn’t do a review without even hearing it!
heard this before. thanks
The point of this video was to draw attention to Kef's marketing practices which I don't particularly agree with (not just with the KC62 but many of their products as of late).
Many of you are unhappy with what I have to say (and I respect your opinion), but if this video can help just 1 person that is enough for me!
Have a good day :)
Why do you think that an established reviewer like Steve Guttenberg would lie about reviewing a subwoofer? That makes no sense whatsoever. He also has been known to listen at lower volumes so his review makes sense.
@@yamafanboy Mate I'll be honest with you, this is my hunch and from what I've seen he always recommends Kef products without us getting to see them. Like when the LS50 Meta came out, his review went up first but they're nowhere to be seen if I remember correctly. Forgive me if I'm wrong there.
As a reviewer, your life is made easier if you just stand there and say great things about a product (I do get tempted sometimes and I see others doing it). It's alot harder to get the product out, show yourself testing it and taking measurements. If I were in his shoes being sent products all the time, that's what I'd be doing but I just don't see that. What I get from these reviewers is generally 'wishy washy' statements which don't really make sense to me.
But honestly, I don't care these guys can carry on how they run the show but when my channel gets bigger I'll be doing things a bit differently.
I do know what you mean, and no doubt Steve is one of the best, most known and respected audiophiles out there. However, every time I have bought something on his recommendation, it just didn't work out for me and I had to return it to the shop. Same thing with WhatHifi reviews. I never seem to agree with them. Perhaps we have different tastes.
But that's my opinion on the matter. I respect yours too. Don't mean to offend, I guess I am overly vocal sometimes lol
Man Discovers Tech needs more inches, I'll let you decide where lol
everyone likes a bit of extra length 😉
@@propercushty So true lol
@@0robbi0 🍆
@@propercushty If you want a row I'm in... lol
@@0robbi0 🤠
Thanks for your thoughs but you didn't hear him play do you? Steve Guttenberg Audiophile have another story and listening to it. I only gonna use it for music with KEF LS 50 original .But anyway im thankful for people like you who help people with these kinds of questions. Keep up the good work. Thanks.
Hello. I watched Steven Guttenberg's review of it, and I didn't see him use any of his own photos or video footage of this subwoofer. He said it's the 'best sub he's heard' but why didn't he show it to us live? Honestly, I think there is something not quite right there.
I agree..if you use it for music then the KC62 will likely be a far better sub in smaller rooms. But for £1400? There are many better alternatives for that price. I just want to save people from spending too much money.
Thanks for your kind comments, means alot :)
Can't agree with the marketing, but it is a good sub for my small bedroom indeed. It gets loud enough as long as I close the door.
This is a dreadful video, don't waste your time. It's basically reads from the KEF website. then he reads from some other forums, all the while demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject "what is 100 compared 80Db? It's a lot more" jeez...
nope...that info came from Kef's own mouths (which they choose not to publish on their website because it doesn't look very good). 80db at 20hz? Groundbreaking..I think not and this sub should not be recommended for movies. People need to know.
Also, if you examine the thumbnail..the video is about my thoughts on what I believe is Kef's deceptive marketing tactics. Many of my subscribers are being tricked into thinking this subwoofer was an ideal choice for them because the sub reaches 11hz.
@@propercushty None of that stops this being a dreadful video. I have no reason to question the accuracy of your claims given that you just read them from other websites.
I’m just wondering what value you think you add.
@@madridpunch I don't get why you think it's a dreadful video? Do you work for KEF or are you a KEF fanboy?
You also misquoted me earlier with the 80db @20hz comment. About two seconds later I clearly say you need at least 6db to get anything close to double SPL. I believe perceived SPL is actually a 10db increase, but still!
So why are you trying to degrade what I'm saying, when I'm just trying to save people money and prevent them from making the wrong choice? If you live in a molehill, then buy this subwoofer! I'm sure it will be great for movies in that situation.
@@propercushty Sorry bro, I'm not criticising your findings, we won't know until we listen to them. KEF have mostly delivered in the past, so I would have been a bit more reticent than you in criticising them without having heard them based upon what some bloke on a forum said.
The reason the video is dreadful is that you bring no new information to the discussion and, for me, your style of doing so is terrible. Its more a criticism of your production values than it is of your content.
I should have just moved on without commenting, apparently your subscribers appreciate your "style".
@@madridpunch Ok..fair enough...so basically you don't like me because you didn't get a good feeling in the video. Fine...I don't expect everyone to like me or my 'style' (whatever that means..if you want to listen to me monologue and put no effort into editing, then that would be great for me...would save alot of time!).
But, did you forget..some people don't like looking up information on Google..some people actually prefer to watch CZcams videos on their chosen topics? Funny that?
I agree..KEF have mostly delivered in the past..I take it you didn't watch all of my video - I clearly said that some of my first speakers were KEF models, and at that time I was very much in love with the brand. I had IQ7 and IQ5s. I have also had Kef LS50, R300, R3 and dipolar speakers, but that's for another time. I also heard the KF92 last summer when I was subwoofer shopping and I wasn't impressed for the money! And the KC62 is meant to be half the SPL of that! Check it out on Kef's website, they said it themselves.
I will repeat that *my subscribers asked me* if this would be the right subwoofer for them (for music AND movies). They knew I hadn't seen it, they wanted *my opinion*. This is annoying to me, because the marketing shows this 'football-sized' 'David vs Golilath' subwoofer is the real deal. No..it's not. David is not slaying any Goliaths today I'm afraid. I don't need to hear it to know that...KEF can gladly send this subwoofer to me and I'd be happy to show you via video how apt this thing truly is at music, moves and gaming.
Just look at the SPL data at all critical volumes (hard data doesn't lie). No way that subwoofer is ideal for movies. No way somebody should pay £1400 for it when there are better options out there. This is for people who want their living rooms to look good. It's for people who might be considering something like a BOSE or a SONOS system and want something a bit better than that. Perhaps this is good competition to the B&W PV1D (which I think looks better I might add).
Sorry, but it's not my fault KEF talk smack and misinform people..that's why I made this video..for people who are confused and are struggling to find out some facts.
Also, as mentioned in the video...I see at least 2 other reviewers on CZcams talking about this topic. One of them pretended like they heard the subwoofer, when it's quite obvious he didn't. At least I'm being honest and I'm not trying to sell you products.
Did you leave a comment for those other CZcamsrs, or was it just me? Just wondering...
i have a pair of q5 and like them. a lot audio has become trendy and lot bullshit to sell.
ur on the money dont bekieve the hype
Yeah this is what I am trying to say...the speakers which I have recently just purchased aren't even available for mainstream sale..the whole package cost me £999 and I've never heard a better sound in a home setting. There is too much hype these days and the marketing fools too many people in my opinion.
Here's a video where I showcase my new speakers in case you're interested!
czcams.com/video/zjuAEX4-Op8/video.html
Under 20hz it's not as much heard as felt. While any subwoofer can "state" they do under 20hz, it's not until you get large drivers with high excursion that there is enough pressure in room to notice it. Most of the time they can possibly measure the output that low with microphones but it's under what humans can perceive, but they still put it in the specs to fool people. Nearly any sub can do 11hz at 80db but to hell will you notice it, not until it approaches 100db.
There is no technology that can really overcome the need for large displacement for subsonic bass, for example I have a 15" dayton driver in a nearly 3cf sealed enclosure and can just about feel 16hz. Thiele-small cannot be overcome.
Exactly! Well said and I hope people start to hear the message too!
I wonder why people are disliking your vid. You're actually making alot of sense. People just dont like hearing the truth. If they have $1400 to spend. They should go buy it. Lol
Thank you mate that means alot. People are being very nasty, I'm just trying to help them. I wasn't expecting this to be honest. That's the power of the crowd for you.
I'm guessing they're KEF fanboys, KEF employees, they're a bit ignorant and expect miracles, or perhaps people just don't like me and my style ..no idea.
It all comes down to one thing..*these guys want reviewers to tell them what to buy*. They want reviewers to tell them this sub is the best they've heard etc etc etc.
I don't really care about negative comments anymore, but when you try and help people SPEND LESS and they throw it back in your face, it takes a toll sometimes :(
But yeah..that's what I do.
As long as one person liked the video that is enough for me!
Thanks again for the support :)
@Hodge Twins cheers brother
@@propercushty it's fairly obvious that the dislikes come from the fact you've put 'review' in the description of the video, when you could've just as easily used the term 'overview' instead when you haven't seen, heard, or used the product yourself. I understand that your argument is that other people on CZcams have done the same thing... well that sure doesn't make you any better in this case now does it? It just seems a little click baity in my opinion. I didn't like/dislike the video either way, just giving an opinion.
@@snootz ok I understand that 'snootz alootz' (interesting name lol)...but is it my fault that people cannot read? I even capitlised 'facts' in the video title to make it clear. Have a look at the thumbnail..did the thumbnail have the word review in it, or did the thumbnail have a different message maybe? I'd encourage you to check.
Listen mate...I am a CZcamsr..I am trying to reach more people here..do you suggest I should leave out the word 'review', even though Google tells me that's the search term people are looking for? Google suggested I put it in, so why shouldn't I? Do people search for the term 'overview'..have you ever searched for that before? Have a look and see if people search for that and you'll find out lol.
Who said a 'review' meant you had to *see* the subwoofer in the video? Did you see the subwoofer in Steve Guttenberg's video? Or are you taking his word for it that the subwoofer sounds good? Did he review that subwoofer in your room? Who cares what he thinks of it anyway...a loudspeaker review means nothing if the weakest link in the signal path is your room acoustics. His room acoustics are entirely different to yours, and so that means he could say anything he wanted and you'd never be able to prove him wrong.
*another thing*
I am trying to grow a channel here, so please give a guy a break! Taking into account what this channel is trying to achieve (save people overspending on tech) don't you think this video was made for the greater good? If you like, I'll convert to the dark side, make brown envelope deals with the companies that means I get all the gear first, then do a 'review' on it which would inevitably result in you unnecessarily spending? You think that stuff doesn't go on? You should see the email I got this week from a company saying they didn't like the 'few negative comments' I mentioned in the video. Now they won't send me their products anymore. You see what I'm contending with here? The whole thing is a sham.
Besides, everything I've typed in the title is accurate going by the English dictionary, so I am fine with that and can sleep at night! I encourage people to read the title carefully before getting drawn in!
Anyway, rant over..off to walk the dog lol!
And take care of yourself mate - I appreciate you not liking nor disliking the video. I'm sure you're a great person and if we met face to face we'd have a decent conversation over a pint :D
It's not surprising, there's a certain part of the Audiophile community which don't like scientific facts and hard principles. I mean, you only have to look at those buying "£500 cables which improve your sound quality" to understand that. Ignorance is bliss.
It's pretty obvious that what you're getting from this speaker dedicated to solely delivering bass (subwoofer) isn't delivering to the same quantity and depth of others for the price, like most DIY or SVS (and other equivalent) of the same value. Especially for movies and overall LFE content.
the vid proved nothing. 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
I think it did. 20hz @80db...a suitable sub for movies as Kef say? I think not!
first get a unit for review
na I'm alright mate - I'd rather recommend you don't listen to other reviewers and instead do a home demo yourself. I recommend people take back their independence without relying on the words of some old man they saw on CZcams. Probably for the best if I'm honest. But that's just me...
...in my next video I will prove with Maths and Physics that I am right. More than other channels can say, nor would they dare to use facts as they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.
Take care and stay open-minded!
It's definitely worth picking up on poor marketing practices like this. You expect it from cheap manufacturers but KEF is legit, so it's not right that they provide proper stats for their proper audio equipment and then for this tiny sub they say it's a giant killer without providing any meaningful stats to support that statement. "There's no replacement for displacement" is not entirely accurate all the time but this sub takes the biscuit.
Thank you..somebody who makes sense! You're right..no *meaningful* stats at all!
The only stats they publish are quite obviously intended to oversell this subwoofer to unknowing people! The Japanese Origami thing they go on about in the design...ok if it matters so much, why doesn't Kef publish some peer reviewed data so people know exactly how much better this technology is for the price? Sure, there's data on this technology, but I think people expect too much and it costs us more than it's worth. That's my take on the matter anyway: I could be wrong.
Well 'no replacement for displacement' is the concept..fair enough using special engineering like force cancelling drivers and EQ'ing the hell out of the subwoofer can get you a bit more..but the concept of large driver, large box, quality amplification remains, I think.
I just think people are expecting miracles from this subwoofer, and I know I'm right if you just look at the number of dislikes on this video!
Oh well..I'll be saving my 1.4k for a trip to Hawaii after lockdown 😂
@@propercushty hehe :-) I think I'll save mine for another SVS PB2000 Pro. Even with 2, i doubt I'll get much at 11hz. Shakes the room nicely at 20hz though :-P
@@1stroudm lol 11hz! Never heard anything like it in my life.
Yeah..good idea getting another SVS PB2000 Pro (absolute beast lol)
Buy an SVS and be done
You'll save some money, you'll watch your movies with impact, and your music will no doubt sound better. You can probably buy 2x SVS subs for the price of 1x KC62.
Comment approved!
How is this a review when you don’t even have the product in hand?
knowledge
Downvoted
lol nobody cares