Good stuff! Mostly agree overall. I think I would be a little bit kinder to The Rock o. I think it's a good action, and people just have really strong preferences on if they love or hate the "reverse" action. Ultra O: S tier. Any ball lock: F frickin minus :p
Rock O's should be at the same tier as dmm, in my opinion. The action has a better contour to grab with gloves, and if you aren't familiar with the downward motion, it may inconvenience you. But I started on rock o's and going to upward motion is what took me time to transition to. So it's really about familiarity. Dmm and rock exotica are in a league of their own and I have yet to downgrade one from the other.
Great list, lots of well thought out points. I wholeheartedly disagree on the ball locking carabiners, they are one of my all time favorites and most intuitive to use (for me). Also with regular cleaning the dirt doesn't gum up too bad. The CTs are another favorite. I climb with a hydra pulley on my bridge, and I find that the CT carabiner slides through the o-rings easier than other carabiner types.
Hi! Als Dreh- und Ziehlegasteniker bin mit den Petzl Ball Locks am besten unterwegs. Ich nutze sie zu wahrscheinlich 80% in meiner PSA. Auch die CT haben ihren Platz gefunden und zwar in der Rettungskurzverbindung. Ja, sie laufen sehr straff, aber gerade da find ich es super. DMM sind fein, aber echt teuer - noch schlimmer Rock exotica! Da denke ich muss jeder selbst entscheiden, was einem passt. Ich fand es sehr schön, dass jemand meint, der Klang des Schließend ist wichtig. Ich bin eben auch der Meinung, dass es insgesamt passen muss. Und wenn's der Klang des Verschlusses ist. Petzl passt. Hab ich mehr, oder gar zu viel Geld liegen, ja, dann wäre es dmm. Schickes Video. Grüße aus Deutschland
I own mostly Petzl OK Triact... I like the generally feel of the Ultra O, but I prefer the rougher texture of the Petzl gates compared to the almost slippery smooth one of the DMM. So I guess I find the Ultra O *nicer*, but the OK more practical ;) Thanks for the video anyways! (although nobody will understand that I just watched a 20 min video on carabiners :D)
I work in gloves a lot and that's probably the biggest factor for me when choosing, can I open it easily when I need single handed. The petzl ball locks work great for that, but mine are still only a year old so maybe they will gum up with age. I also really like the big bulbous petzl triple lock because you can feel it so easy even in bulky gloves, and the size of it makes it easy to operate. My go to for lanyards etc
This is beautiful, inforamtive and funny. Totally agree on dmm duralock, giant pain in the ass to undo that blind. HOWEVER I am commenting and will fight over petzl ball locks for life.
Love the petzl ball locks, OK, and Williams. definitely better than just OK from my experience with them. DMM makes great quality stuff, possibly the best quality carabiners, however I don't like how the gates can slip in the hand under wet or sweaty conditions
I love the DMM carabiners. My favourite is propably the Dmm ceros. It works great on a lanyard, is super slim and feels good in the hand. I also love the DMM perfect o. I always have it on my Zigzag to keep the whole system a bit shorter, especially with the chicane.
Totally agree, I started out almost exclusively on petzl triact, they are awesome and a total classic, but recently I’ve been migrating more towards dmm because they are simply built better
Just for reference - top 3 tiers 17:02 Favourite for MRS system is the DMM Ultra O - good feel, clips nicely, perfect size, easy to use, dependable. Rates as S(uperior?) only downside: gate may roll out & open against a trunk on rare occassions. 7:25 DMM Perfecto - quite a bit smaller than the Ultra O - small size makes it ideal for setting up on Hitch Climber pulleys Rates as A 18:12 Favourite for SRS work is the DMM Duralock given the rare potential for the gate to open on the Ultra O - 10:48 different from regular Ultra O - bit of pain to open but impossible to open accidentally. Good for Rope Runner Pro as its a super safe connection. Rates as B. 2:22 Petzl Tri Act - nice feel, industry standard - good for secondary use, e.g. chainsaw, secondary climbing set-up. Rates as B
Yeah the Rock Os are definitely a niche. They were the first double locking carabiners I ever bought and because of that I can still open them better than any of my DMM ones. Love the DMM Rhino for rope wrench setup. Won’t ever use another carabiner for my wrench. Very similar thoughts on all of the carabiners. Love the title cards for the brands, awesome touch. Cheers!
Brilliant video, great overview. I Have always been DMM. If you saw the mountains in Wales you can see why their kit has to be top quality. Knarly rock and poor wet conditions.
Not fighting…just pointing out a comment. I dont agree with your statement about The petzl ball lock. You stated that there are other “triple auto locking ones”. those are triple auto locking devices. 1) press the ball, 2) twist the gate, 3) open the gate! Personally i LOVE this carabiner and i have a bunch of old petzel ball lock D carabiners and theyre still in perfect working condition 20 plus years later. Only one has abnormal wear from being my rappel one.
Go with the Z. It's a lot more versatile. I do not like the A as it is hard to clip into things with the gate and pulley in the way. Didn't know there was a difference when I bought it a couple of years ago.
I think they’re intended for different purposes. I like the A for redirects (gate opens onto the pulley, easy rope installation, slings already cinched at the “top”), and the Z for usage with other hardware, like hand ascenders or rope grabs for MA positioning systems - the Z is easier to install on and remove from the aforementioned hardware. Bottom line they’re optimized for slightly different use-cases IMHO.
I had not tried them at the time I filmed this. I own one now. They're fine. I still like the weight and quality of the DMM UltraO personally but I do like the colors from RockNArbor
great video Casey...i like the premier and the fact that we could interact during the video. unfortunately is was late but i will be on time for the next🤙 stay safe stay healthy
Thanks man! I will plan to send out a heads up the next time I do a premier! Try out on your videos too! It would be fun to live chat while watching your tree work!
Ct pillar ..is overall cheaper price and great for small hands has a keeper and grip to grab gate open..its my favorite..besudes the mini perfecto..it wins on size only though .if the pillar was size of the dmm it would beat it.
All carabiners should have abundant robust texture on the gate with extremely smooth and reliable function. The Rock Exotica products are my choice but it seems that the entire carabiner industry could learn a thing or two from the firearms industry. I like RE because best balance of form, function and reliability. RE seems to stay cleaner and function smoother over time in tree work compared to DMM. If I didn't have RE I'd probably go with Notch because DMM isn't really a better value for carabiners of same maintenance requirements. DMMs get same sticky for higher price. I don't really have love for Petzl anything.
Just how durable are those carabiner? And which one will stand out the best of the best in terms of abuse and everyday durability use. I don't want something that is unreliable in the long run. Has to be 100% guaranteed that I can put my life on the product that it will not failed on me when things goes wrong unexpectedly.
Help me understand why the RO “pull down” biners aren’t easier to operate 1-handed than all the other push-ups (starting with the Petzl)? I know push-up has dominated he industry now (RO has even made push-up version for the Pirate, ostensibly to conform to the wide industry push-up muscle memory!) but that doesn’t necessarily make it better. I’m able to operate the push-ups 1-handed if I think about it and wedge my ring finger to biner’s inside bottom to act in opposition to the push-up mechanics, but I find the RO pull-downs much much easier. I have way more push-ups because I love Petzl and DMM for many other reasons, but RO was onto something with their unique mechanism. Note: isn’t it easier, and stronger, to contract your fingers than expand? Or are push-ups safer? Anyway I rate all the brands top-notch Petzl, RO, and DMM.
I've met a lot of folks that like the RockO's better than other biners. I just really had a hard time adjusting to their gate and honestly probably didn't put enough work in to learn it. I believe your comment on the mechanics/ergonomics of the contraction vs expansion is right. However, I feel that muscle memory can make a more complicated or taxing action easier than doing something new. Anyway, my ultimate position is that there are different styles & opinions for each climber and I love seeing the variety of ways people go about the same problems!
@@CaseySnyder Makes sense Casey. Muscle memory is a critical factor, for sure; I probably dismissed that too quickly. BTW, I stopped by my local arborist shop (WA state) and picked up some Ultra-O DMMs, at your recommendation. Never tried those models until now. I totally agree their "hand-feel", softening of all the edges, is better than even my beloved Petzl and RO. Although I will say, for the gram-counters (I confess I'm one, especially when I'm packing or mountaineering, although these days it's all trees!), Petzl's are lighter and rated slightly stronger on the long-axis (25 vs 27kN...a 400lb delta, if that matters). Picked up a couple more DMM XSRE's too. Love those little guys.
I'd *love* to see your proof that the ball locks get gummed up. Has it ever happened to you personally? I've been using them for over a decade and can't recall an issue with them. They are faster and safer than the multi-action carabiners you admitted have opened up against a tree.
Yes it has. I was issued some older Petzl ball locks from my employer and also used some from a kit for students at my college. To be fair neither were well maintained but my point still stands that they did not open as well I liked so I switched to triple auto locking. I now use the DMM during duro locks for most SRS climbs. Also, it's not a me versus you thing. Like other climbers, I just have my personal preference. It's cool with me if you like the ball locks.
It's been a while, but I remember that Edelrid auto-locking were backordered on all suppliers I buy from at the time, so they just didn't make the cut.
They are one of my favorites as well. Especially the Bulletproof models, they are very high quality and durable. I love DMM too but imo the Edelrid Bulletproofs edges them out slightly as far finishes and smooth actions go. The lower end Eldelrid carabiners are equally good when compared to DMM.
@@CaseySnyder so far none. I am just getting in to tree work but the 30 kn major axis rating was the thought behind my choice. Just trying to build up good gear out the gate so I can stream line my gearing up process Sir.
Don't agree with what I had to say? THEN FIGHT ME. Or just leave a comment below to tell me about your favorite Carabiners.
Good stuff! Mostly agree overall. I think I would be a little bit kinder to The Rock o. I think it's a good action, and people just have really strong preferences on if they love or hate the "reverse" action.
Ultra O: S tier.
Any ball lock: F frickin minus :p
Rock O's should be at the same tier as dmm, in my opinion. The action has a better contour to grab with gloves, and if you aren't familiar with the downward motion, it may inconvenience you. But I started on rock o's and going to upward motion is what took me time to transition to. So it's really about familiarity. Dmm and rock exotica are in a league of their own and I have yet to downgrade one from the other.
Great list, lots of well thought out points. I wholeheartedly disagree on the ball locking carabiners, they are one of my all time favorites and most intuitive to use (for me). Also with regular cleaning the dirt doesn't gum up too bad. The CTs are another favorite. I climb with a hydra pulley on my bridge, and I find that the CT carabiner slides through the o-rings easier than other carabiner types.
I agree. Super easy to open and I've never had one jam up but I have at least 3 DMM carabiners where the gates no longer close properly
Hi! Als Dreh- und Ziehlegasteniker bin mit den Petzl Ball Locks am besten unterwegs. Ich nutze sie zu wahrscheinlich 80% in meiner PSA.
Auch die CT haben ihren Platz gefunden und zwar in der Rettungskurzverbindung. Ja, sie laufen sehr straff, aber gerade da find ich es super. DMM sind fein, aber echt teuer - noch schlimmer Rock exotica! Da denke ich muss jeder selbst entscheiden, was einem passt.
Ich fand es sehr schön, dass jemand meint, der Klang des Schließend ist wichtig. Ich bin eben auch der Meinung, dass es insgesamt passen muss. Und wenn's der Klang des Verschlusses ist.
Petzl passt. Hab ich mehr, oder gar zu viel Geld liegen, ja, dann wäre es dmm.
Schickes Video.
Grüße aus Deutschland
I own mostly Petzl OK Triact... I like the generally feel of the Ultra O, but I prefer the rougher texture of the Petzl gates compared to the almost slippery smooth one of the DMM. So I guess I find the Ultra O *nicer*, but the OK more practical ;) Thanks for the video anyways! (although nobody will understand that I just watched a 20 min video on carabiners :D)
I work in gloves a lot and that's probably the biggest factor for me when choosing, can I open it easily when I need single handed. The petzl ball locks work great for that, but mine are still only a year old so maybe they will gum up with age. I also really like the big bulbous petzl triple lock because you can feel it so easy even in bulky gloves, and the size of it makes it easy to operate. My go to for lanyards etc
This is the greatest carabiner analyzation video that I have seen. Excellent comparison with different carabiners👍👍
Thanks for the video Casey. Subscribed!
This is beautiful, inforamtive and funny. Totally agree on dmm duralock, giant pain in the ass to undo that blind. HOWEVER I am commenting and will fight over petzl ball locks for life.
Ball lock is indeed easier to use than those tri-lock which I hate. I use screw lock steel biners for rope access anyway. Aluminium is for climbers
Love the petzl ball locks, OK, and Williams. definitely better than just OK from my experience with them. DMM makes great quality stuff, possibly the best quality carabiners, however I don't like how the gates can slip in the hand under wet or sweaty conditions
I love the DMM carabiners. My favourite is propably the Dmm ceros. It works great on a lanyard, is super slim and feels good in the hand. I also love the DMM perfect o. I always have it on my Zigzag to keep the whole system a bit shorter, especially with the chicane.
Totally agree, I started out almost exclusively on petzl triact, they are awesome and a total classic, but recently I’ve been migrating more towards dmm because they are simply built better
Just for reference - top 3 tiers
17:02 Favourite for MRS system is the DMM Ultra O - good feel, clips nicely, perfect size, easy to use, dependable. Rates as S(uperior?) only downside: gate may roll out & open against a trunk on rare occassions.
7:25 DMM Perfecto - quite a bit smaller than the Ultra O - small size makes it ideal for setting up on Hitch Climber pulleys Rates as A
18:12 Favourite for SRS work is the DMM Duralock given the rare potential for the gate to open on the Ultra O - 10:48 different from regular Ultra O - bit of pain to open but impossible to open accidentally. Good for Rope Runner Pro as its a super safe connection. Rates as B.
2:22 Petzl Tri Act - nice feel, industry standard - good for secondary use, e.g. chainsaw, secondary climbing set-up. Rates as B
Yeah the Rock Os are definitely a niche. They were the first double locking carabiners I ever bought and because of that I can still open them better than any of my DMM ones. Love the DMM Rhino for rope wrench setup. Won’t ever use another carabiner for my wrench. Very similar thoughts on all of the carabiners. Love the title cards for the brands, awesome touch.
Cheers!
Brilliant video, great overview. I Have always been DMM. If you saw the mountains in Wales you can see why their kit has to be top quality. Knarly rock and poor wet conditions.
I want to go to Wales so bad. Thank you for checking me out!
Great production and fair evaluations. Subbed.
Not fighting…just pointing out a comment. I dont agree with your statement about The petzl ball lock. You stated that there are other “triple auto locking ones”. those are triple auto locking devices. 1) press the ball, 2) twist the gate, 3) open the gate! Personally i LOVE this carabiner and i have a bunch of old petzel ball lock D carabiners and theyre still in perfect working condition 20 plus years later. Only one has abnormal wear from being my rappel one.
For life support; ball locks. For accessories wire gates or Petzl Spirits. Doesn't really matter.
The rock o, with keeper are nice to ..durability..but can be hard to open
Too good! Love the edits.
Good job thank you.
I saw that you have the petzl rollclip carabiner. I'm looking to buy one what's better rollclip A or rollclip Z? I'm leaning towards Z
Go with the Z. It's a lot more versatile. I do not like the A as it is hard to clip into things with the gate and pulley in the way. Didn't know there was a difference when I bought it a couple of years ago.
I think they’re intended for different purposes. I like the A for redirects (gate opens onto the pulley, easy rope installation, slings already cinched at the “top”), and the Z for usage with other hardware, like hand ascenders or rope grabs for MA positioning systems - the Z is easier to install on and remove from the aforementioned hardware. Bottom line they’re optimized for slightly different use-cases IMHO.
Thanks for the overview, what about Omega Pacific’s oval, AKA Rock-N-Arbor’s Raider?
I had not tried them at the time I filmed this. I own one now. They're fine. I still like the weight and quality of the DMM UltraO personally but I do like the colors from RockNArbor
great video Casey...i like the premier and the fact that we could interact during the video. unfortunately is was late but i will be on time for the next🤙
stay safe stay healthy
Thanks man! I will plan to send out a heads up the next time I do a premier! Try out on your videos too! It would be fun to live chat while watching your tree work!
I love the tree gear tier list!
Ct pillar ..is overall cheaper price and great for small hands has a keeper and grip to grab gate open..its my favorite..besudes the mini perfecto..it wins on size only though .if the pillar was size of the dmm it would beat it.
All carabiners should have abundant robust texture on the gate with extremely smooth and reliable function. The Rock Exotica products are my choice but it seems that the entire carabiner industry could learn a thing or two from the firearms industry. I like RE because best balance of form, function and reliability. RE seems to stay cleaner and function smoother over time in tree work compared to DMM. If I didn't have RE I'd probably go with Notch because DMM isn't really a better value for carabiners of same maintenance requirements. DMMs get same sticky for higher price. I don't really have love for Petzl anything.
Just ordered my first DMM Ultra O :)
Just how durable are those carabiner? And which one will stand out the best of the best in terms of abuse and everyday durability use. I don't want something that is unreliable in the long run. Has to be 100% guaranteed that I can put my life on the product that it will not failed on me when things goes wrong unexpectedly.
Help me understand why the RO “pull down” biners aren’t easier to operate 1-handed than all the other push-ups (starting with the Petzl)? I know push-up has dominated he industry now (RO has even made push-up version for the Pirate, ostensibly to conform to the wide industry push-up muscle memory!) but that doesn’t necessarily make it better. I’m able to operate the push-ups 1-handed if I think about it and wedge my ring finger to biner’s inside bottom to act in opposition to the push-up mechanics, but I find the RO pull-downs much much easier.
I have way more push-ups because I love Petzl and DMM for many other reasons, but RO was onto something with their unique mechanism. Note: isn’t it easier, and stronger, to contract your fingers than expand?
Or are push-ups safer?
Anyway I rate all the brands top-notch Petzl, RO, and DMM.
I've met a lot of folks that like the RockO's better than other biners. I just really had a hard time adjusting to their gate and honestly probably didn't put enough work in to learn it. I believe your comment on the mechanics/ergonomics of the contraction vs expansion is right. However, I feel that muscle memory can make a more complicated or taxing action easier than doing something new.
Anyway, my ultimate position is that there are different styles & opinions for each climber and I love seeing the variety of ways people go about the same problems!
@@CaseySnyder Makes sense Casey. Muscle memory is a critical factor, for sure; I probably dismissed that too quickly.
BTW, I stopped by my local arborist shop (WA state) and picked up some Ultra-O DMMs, at your recommendation. Never tried those models until now. I totally agree their "hand-feel", softening of all the edges, is better than even my beloved Petzl and RO. Although I will say, for the gram-counters (I confess I'm one, especially when I'm packing or mountaineering, although these days it's all trees!), Petzl's are lighter and rated slightly stronger on the long-axis (25 vs 27kN...a 400lb delta, if that matters).
Picked up a couple more DMM XSRE's too. Love those little guys.
I'd *love* to see your proof that the ball locks get gummed up. Has it ever happened to you personally? I've been using them for over a decade and can't recall an issue with them. They are faster and safer than the multi-action carabiners you admitted have opened up against a tree.
Yes it has. I was issued some older Petzl ball locks from my employer and also used some from a kit for students at my college. To be fair neither were well maintained but my point still stands that they did not open as well I liked so I switched to triple auto locking. I now use the DMM during duro locks for most SRS climbs.
Also, it's not a me versus you thing. Like other climbers, I just have my personal preference. It's cool with me if you like the ball locks.
The CT over with keeper is great and much less price .
I personally use the notch. Love them but like you said they are mediocre in price
You didnt have any Edelrids. Any reason why? My absolute favorite hands down.
It's been a while, but I remember that Edelrid auto-locking were backordered on all suppliers I buy from at the time, so they just didn't make the cut.
They are one of my favorites as well. Especially the Bulletproof models, they are very high quality and durable. I love DMM too but imo the Edelrid Bulletproofs edges them out slightly as far finishes and smooth actions go. The lower end Eldelrid carabiners are equally good when compared to DMM.
MAKE THAT 501 SUBS BABY
We're would you place mad rock hulk triple locks?
It's hard to place them because I haven't used them myself but they look like they are decent quality. What has your experience been with them?
@@CaseySnyder so far none. I am just getting in to tree work but the 30 kn major axis rating was the thought behind my choice. Just trying to build up good gear out the gate so I can stream line my gearing up process Sir.
Those notch and sherril biners are terrible..for me its petzl ball lock..ct pillar with keeper and dmm perfect o