The Black Caviar story
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2012
- ATR presenter Matt Chapman joins Peter Moody, trainer of Black Caviar, down under to chat in-depth about Australia's star woman.
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Moody said to Nolan before one of her races, " just let her run her race, if you hit her I will hit you". A classic Moody comment.
I like alot how humble and honest he is in his interview ...Alows to see how much he admits all these horses who give so much!! great guy.
I was playing football at the Caulfield Ground and I kicked the ball too hard and it ended up going to the Race Course behind, I had no interest or clue about horses but I just went all the way there just to ask for my ball back. Me and my brother got allowed to go and get the ball (we walked on the race course) and when we were leaving, we talked to the incharge for a little while thanking him. He said - "We have a Black Caviar in the room or tent today", again we had no clue so we just acted like oh nice work and pretended it must be very exciting. The guy told us the Black caviar legendary stories and showed us some good winning videos of how he came back from behind. He then asked if we would like to see/meet The Black Caviar and then we went to this horse tent or something and met that massive gorgeous horse. We then took some pictures and petted his face. Thank you so much to that awesome guy for making us meet the Black Caviar. He gave us this awesome memory to remember.
And you've been a racing fan ever since, I hope!
and she did it by smashing the clock. She is now officially the fastest horse to ever thunder down the famous Flemington straight. 55.42 for the 1000m (she also ran 55.53 last year after a 1400m race 7 days prior) is unparralleled in 150+ years of racing at Flemington.
What a champion 🏆
Definitely a horse to win all his races 😊
black caviar's victory at royal ascot was a brilliant victory in so many ways; the jockey eased off near the line but responded immediately when quickening to defeat the following season's champion miler; the racing season had already ended in australia & she had to travel thousands of miles to england; i believe she was also in season.
Say what you like guys, but to win a Newmarket handicap as a mare giving weight to male horses, WOW, and she blew them away! Trust me, that's remarkable.
She beat "wood" ! Trust Me !
It’s a bit of a shame in a lot of ways that Hay List was not up to his very best against her when she ran in the Newmarket, the race that she achieved her career peak rating. Given that she would have had to concede 4kg’s to Hay List it would have been a hell of a contest. The Hay List that pushed Black Caviar to a sub-10s 200m would have been a huge obstacle for her in the Newmarket. Given she ran the fastest time in the history of the race eased down for the last half a furlong imagine the time she would of run had she needed to be ridden out? Hay List was unlucky in many ways as a racehorse. Firstly he was around at the same time as Black Caviar. Had she not been around he’d have won 7 G1 races and would probably have been rated above the likes of Miss Andretti, Takeover Target and Scenic Blast. He was also unlucky in that he had horrible shelly feet, the same as Hareeba; another horse that will be remembered as good not great because of a fluke of confirmation. Hay List though was able to give Buffering a significant weight advantage and a beating in the 2012 Newmarket… and everyone remembers what Buffering did to the best European sprinters in Dubai…
You're still beating your own wood Terry. "Child molestation" - you really are a sick puppy.
Probably beat "wood",trust me ! It is hardly frankellesque ! "His Majesty" beat more Group One winners and by further, and more times, than any horse in the modern era. The fillies allowance was to help smaller females compete ! There was nowt small about B.C. The allowance is too big in Europe and should revert to three pounds .
Oh that's right... big fillies shouldn't get an allowance... and neither should geldings Tez. Your words not mine.
Reporter: Describe Black Caviar and how she caught your eyes.
Most aussie reply you will hear :
8:16 its like walking down the beach...and..it doesn't need to be a good sort but if the rear end moves good you turn around and have a look 😂
I love being Australian
Thank you for this posting, it was informative. I agree completely agree with Mr. Moody's view on pacemakers and the the bicycle team tactics that at prevalent in UK racing; let the horses run and win on their own merit. I am looking forward to seeing Black Caviar go to Ascot. There has been so talk of going to Dubai (2012); I would be delighted but I would also be surprised! A top rank racer and great for the sport.
They should make a Breyer of this fantastic champion! :)
Frankel was a stayer whereas black caviar was a sprinter two totally different types of horse , her absolute cruising speed was just something to behold to win that sprint race at royal ascot after ripping her chest muscles halfway down the straight was the mark of a legend .
Dont compare Frankel and Black Caviar.Frankel did the biz in the U.K(65 Breeders Cup wins), breaking total aggregate distances in the process.Oz has never won a single B.C.race ever and cant even win the Melbourne Cup these days.Wake Up Oz!!!!
@@terrybrowne124 there is so much tripe in this comment it's not funny.
Aspen from USA. BEAUTIFUL!!! Plus fantastic racing. Awesome !!!!
A true champ i love this horse making history best thing ive ever saw was her winning live in austraila
Ive met her and walked around when I was like 4 years old my grandfather used to help look after black caviar
I'm an Australian and i believe that BOTH Black Caviar and Frankel are amazing horses. They never raced against each other, so why bother saying that one is better than the other? You can only IMAGINE how it would happen, they are BOTH undefeated, they are BOTH great and they BOTH stand on a pedastal with the other fantastic horses that ever ran! I don't care for petty fights, all i care about are the greats - the CHAMPIONS that win over our hearts. My personal favourite race horses of all time are: 1) Secretariat, 2) Ruffian, 3)Man O' War, 4) Shergar and
5) Barbaro.
Must b a yank, only have US raced horses I like the list, don't get me wrong, just go outside the box, I think the list was prior to 2010, surprised Zenyatta's not in the list.
As Australian as hot apple pie but take your points
Shergar was an Irish Racehorse... A Champion who was kidnapped and never found. R.I.P. Shergar - wherever you are.
Canterville03 And if they had of match race it would just end up like ruffian!!
I totally agree with you, match race are just wrong...now the world knows what can happen when their is no pace in a race, just speed. Ruffian R.I.P.
Nice to learn "the story behind the story" of the great racemare from Down Under, Black Caviar!
My mate & I were at trackwork & met Mr Chapman while he was out here (Aust). Nice fella. He commented to us that he knew how classy our sprinters were & asked if BC was any better than Takeover Target/Miss Andretti. We almost laughed ourselves to tears! BC has shifted the definition of champion in this country. She's on a different level to those horses. Mr Chapman also suggested at that time Frankel would beat her at 6f...4 days later he saw her race in the flesh. Hope he's changed his view.
I think that Black Caviar has the class of the two horses and is the horse who can win making it look as if she is not going all out whereas Frankel is the more physically talented. To be honest they are both magnificently talented and Black Caviar is the best sprinter I have ever seen (though I saw Dream Ahead in the flesh). I just can't help but thinking Frankel gives you a better experience when watching him but Black Caviar is just beautiful to watch and won't ever let you down.
I am a horse racing fanatic I won't forget the last derby won by Secretariat f a n t a s t I c ..superb!!!!!!!!
Frankel races on traffic...give way here I come..
Black Caviar ....I don't want to be left behind may I pass pls..
Zenyatta..I'll give you a plus go ahead faster I'll be in front later.....
They were champions worth remembering forever.
Roly Well said mate. Loved Secretariat myself.
However must say Timeform Ratings = Ridiculously flawed system, based on personal opinions.
Frankel best horse ever, No way that's absurd in my opinion.
Faugheen is my favourite and still improving, Vautour is my favourite and still improving,
Golden horn is my favourite and still improving, this could be a good very good year, good luck guys
You should watch the videos about the dark side of horse racing. I think I could safely say that the vast majority of these horses end up in the slaughterhouse. And it wouldn't even be so bad if they were treated gently before being humanely euthanized, but that's not the case. Any industry that breeds animals for racing..its like puppy mills, if all those puppies ended up as dog food after a couple of years. Sometimes you have a good owner who will take care of a horse, but for the majority, they are just a commodity to be used until they can no longer run and they dont even have the dignity of being euthanized by a vet. They squeeze the last few hundred dollars out of that horse that is sold to the meat buyers, or if the horse wins the lotto, a rescue or would be horse owner will buy one, just like the lucky greyhound will find a new home, but it's far easier to rehome a dog than a horse. Truly, for most racehorses, breaking down on the track is the most humane death.
Why so much comparison between those great horses? Just watch them how they won their races and you can feel by yourself who's the best. For me they were all the best!!!!!!!!!!!
+Roly absolutely right !
Yup! Amen. Gods eye for beauty shown in all its perfection and amazing glory. I've been transfixed and in awe my whole life with horses . One of a kind gift from God ....I jus see the Blessed Being that is beneathe the most empirial, regal, conscious being, who isnt even cursed with an ounce of predatory nature and then to be able to remain so brave and stoic and loyal and socially aware. I mean Devine celestial being gracing us momentarially In this plain... that's so powerful to see to me. SORRY Been just basically daily marathoning horse videos the past few weeks, maybe also cause I'm 12-12-78 which is Dob that is double horse - year (chinese zodiac) of the horse and month of the horse (centar) Sagi. Dec. .!! love it.
Cause frakel was overrated
I could listen To Moody all day. He really has the horse talk or nomenclature down. We don't have much of that good talk here in America.. or maybe I just fancy the Australian style of speaking. However, an old salt over here might say she was "all hickory".
Moody the cobalt King ??
You are a very good judge BG147. Peter Moody, not one blemish on his record !
And a cupboard full of cobalt. Ban all edited messages on youtube and then we would all see the true IQ of the writer.
What do you mean by cobalt?
Ah, I just found the story.
Black caviar was simply irresistible! To break 10sec for 200m, is unthinkable. Her race in Sydney we got a glimpse of her real ability.. speed and determination , she was devastating. To think the injuries she also overcome she had the heart.
She was also blessed with a great kind compassionate trainer. Sadly I don’t think we saw the best of her, too powerful for her own good.
Peter moodys humility when asked about phar lap shows common sense. He was raced 4 times in a week! No horse will ever attempt that, yet win!
Black caviar was breathtaking, blessed to have seen her. We may never see a sprinter like her.
MUST READ, Terry comparing Black Caviar's Newmarket victory to Red Rum's victory who was a hurdler not to mention a gelding and ran over 7220 meters carying 72.2 kilograms.
To rate BC Newmarket victory to a bloody hurdler is just phenomenal.
THIS WAS MY RESPONSE TO A PERSON WHO WAS TALKING ABOUT FRANKEL'S SECTIONALS OVER A SPRINT TRIP.
You are forgetting or ignoring to state that Black Caviar is the only mare to have won the Newmarket carrying 58 kilograms since it started 142 year ago.
Not only did she win it carrying 58 kilograms but she also ran the fastest Newmarket in a time of 1:07.36 since it first started 142 years ago.
If she had of been ridden out all the way to the line in the Newmarket and not eased up the last 50 meters, its very likely that she would have broken the 1200 meter Flemington track record, which stands at 1:07.16 held by Iglesia.
Not to mention she holds the track record down the Flemington straight at 1000 meters in 55.42 which stood for 25 years prior. Once again if she wasn't eased up over the last 50 meters, that track record would stand for God knows how long.
There is no way Frankel would have came within sniffing Black Cavia's vagina over a sprint trip. The same can be said about Black Caviar not coming remotely close to Frankel over mile plus. To think otherwise just proves you cannot even comprehend the truth and appreciate both of these phenomenal Equines for what they really were.
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TERRY'S REPLY TO WHAT I WROTE ABOUT BLACK CAVIAR'S NEWMARKET WIN - (ABOVE)
58 kilos ?? Hardly Red Rumesque cry baby ! Red Rum carried topweight (72.2 kg)
over four miles 856 yards and thirty daunting fences in 1974, giving weight to a
dual Cheltenham God Cup winner ! "Dual" means won twice cry baby !
"Giving weight" means carrying more than tiny tears ! Check out Many Clouds carried 70 kg in 2014
Terry you fucking dipshit, Black Caviar carrier was Top weight in the Newmarket at 58 kilos, she carried 3 to 8 kilograms more then any other horse in the Newmarket Handicap you stupid bastard.
Arkle.
I didn't realize how short-coupled she is until seeing this clip. Secretariat was, too.
I never paid much attention to black caviar, because i always was keen on the stayers and middle distance horses. But i guess in the 3 years im really keen and loving sprinters watching chautauqua and especially seeing the young sprinters coming up its pretty exciting. But watching black caviars videos wowww just amazing for her size she just destroys her opponents. Love listening to peter moody. When i was start loving racing i enjoyed watching favelon choisir and miss Andretti. But shes a freak. But the sprinter i enjoy now and i believe he will get better and thats nature strip give him time his going to get better day in day out
30:54 Peter fkn went all in relentless respond i fkn love it absolutely went hard im sure thats why the interview didnt go any longer than it did hahah. Love it. " i dont care wether its frankle or whatever else you got there no horse is going past my mare" i know where i would want my horse trained.
A good review
Wonderful look at this great racemare....thanks for sharing this.
go Pete, your amazing! thats right Nell is the the best and watch out England our girl is truly the best, shes coming over to show your side of the world how good she really is!
Pete, Luke, Donna and Nellys people that look after, are so amazing they take amazing care of her no one else would be better than them for her. but all my love goes to pur champ nelly, what an amazing girl ( mare) she is.
your AMAZING NEL, PETE, LUKE, AND ALL OF BLACK CAVIARS PEOPLE THAT TAKE CARE OF HER
I LOVE U NELLY!
Isn't it strange that with both Frankel and Black Caviar they both ran against other horses who, if not for them, would have also been seen as incredible champions in both Hay List, behind Black Caviar, and Excelebration, behind Frankel.
Possibly the two most overrated horses i have ever seen
GO NELLY, YOUR TRULY THE BEST IN THE WOLD, OH HOW MUCH I LOVE U
Love it, a large filly!
Well done to James Slevin and Jack Kennedy on their debut winners at Cheltenham. Jack got the ball rolling in the first on Tuesday on Lahaik 25/1 (from 50s) and James won the Martin Pipe on Champagne Classic 12/1 (25s and 33s readily available in the morning).Jack Kennedy may only be seventeen but I doubt there is a better jockey anywhere.
good point mate.
hope she continues her winning when she comes to the UK
She did,just and i cant believe it was 8 years ago
the words undisputed Greg, probably got too excited hehe
Foal Sharing by Tom Hall of the "The Horse". It is available to read on the internet !
Cantonville03,
Totally agree - they all all great. Dancing Brave, Rufian, Dr Fager, Affirmed, Alydar, Seattle Slew, Ribot, Sea the Stars, Trerve, Pebbles, Ribot etc etc etc
I rest my case Your Honour !
Black Caviar over Frankel anyday! 25 wins from 25 starts
winx anyday
@@Steve-wq6qg are you saying winx would of beaten frankle or winx is a better horse than BC
Hard to compare as f4ankels starts were pretty rigged,half his races where in 4 horse fields where one of those four were his stablemate and was used as a pacemaker?wtf do you need a pacemaker for?seems like the race had to be set up for him. Where as old blacks and winx ran in open competition and another sign blacks is better she raced in handicaps which farkall never did in fear of lising he's misely 15 str8 wins
@@russe19642 I thought Far Canal was a well named horse but Farkall is right up there.
Aussie greyhound Norma Stitz still takes the racecaller's prize though...
A Great Horse takes your Breath Away. You looking at Greatness where no flaws stand out ... left Speechless & Spellbound ..
* It's embarassing if tears well Up - God gives Greatness to only the very few ♡
Yeah but like Zenyatta I mean she was 17 1/2 hands tall and so coming out the gate was a little intimidating for her so she always broke from the gate after a pause pretty much unintentionally through genetics and her size giving the opposition the advantage and had to maneuver position after position to get from basically last to First which means not only blazing like bullet the whole entire race but also having to settle in her pace sometimes just to wait for a break in the track to be able to move up another position so pacing n waiting was sometimes all she could do but still wow what a freaking fantastic horse she was an so damn beautiful.
this is just plain mean for pharlap
SHES SO CUTE!
Dayjur`s pedigree includes another great ; ST SIMON 1884 Derby and I only know him as a famous colt but after google : St. Simon (1881 - April 2, 1908) was an undefeated British Thoroughbred
racehorse and one of the most successful sires in the history of the Thoroughbred
There was a great article ;succinct but true ,by Richard Birch in Tuesday`s Racing Post titled " Time To Make Money""Long spells of hot weather often lead to an upturn in the fortunes of punters. The form settles down and fewer shock results tend to occur. Let`s hope the racecourse officials do not put all that in jeopardy by ridiculous overwatering" .Certainly we have seen many more favourites go in and yesterday at Bath we had four favs from eight, at Catterick five winning favs from eight and the biggest priced winner was 5s, and at Leicester three from seven races.Richard knows the time of day and it helps dismiss the theory that the mudlover exists ! Greats such as Denman, Carvills Hill and even Arkle were described as such but there was no mud around at Cheltenham when Denman defeated the great Kauto Star and Neptune Collongues !
That 1411zigzag has no flipping clue. Typing shit and I quote:
"A mare like caviar even though large would still not have nearly the amount of muscles necessary to keep up trust me"
What idiot would say such a absurd comment. You obviously have no clue about muscle development and the equine.
Look at human sprinters, they are extremely bulky and full of muscle, compared to those who run middle distance & marathons.
The horse is no different FOOL, Sprinters are allot more compact in the barrel and carry allot more muscle then middle distance and staying horses.
Frankel & Black Caviar are very different.
1. Black Caviar will beat Frankel with out a doubt upto 1400 meters.
2. Frankel will beat Black Caviar most likely over a mile, however im not as sure about that like I am about BC giving Frankel a cold upto 1400 meters. However I am positive that Frankel would smash Black Caviar over 2000 meters.
Regarding Time Form rating system, they mean squat to me. As Brigadier Gerard, Sea Bird, Ribot & Secretariat were better then Frankel.
In closing I also believe Black Caviar is better then Frankel for 3 reasons.
1. She won ALL bar 1 race with GREAT ease.
2. She broke track records.
3. Most of ALL she NEVER needed a stable pacemaker to help her in all 25 of her victories.
***** You are clearly the rookie here.......How did Black Caviar get found out at Ascot ? She won you twit. She did it injured and she did it with pilot error and she did it after travelling to the other side of the world. Get a clue before posting absurd comments
***** Moonlight Cloud won 5 Euro Group 1's AFTER having her colours lowered by an injured Black Caviar. Restiargent was a 5 length Euro Grp2 winner. Soul, who was beaten 1.35l, started just once in a Group 1 in 12 starts in Aust. Was beaten 6l by Star Witness who in turn was thrashed 8l by BC in Grp1 Newmarket when carrying 5.5kg's less than the mare. What does that tell you ? I'll tell you....Black Caviar ran at least 10l below her best. Why do you think ? Clearly it's not rocket science is it ?
***** She was not fine, she had a huge tear in her muscle. Please get your facts right before you start posting your ignorant comments. The problem with your argument is that you are comparing two different horses. One runs at 1000-1400 meters and the other runs at 1600-2000 meters. They are two different type of horses. also you are comparing their wins against horses such as Moonlight Cloud and Excelebration who cannot be compared. They can't be compared because we never saw what Black Caviar did to Excelebration nor did we see what Frankel did to Moonlight Cloud. Racing in Australia is very different to England. for starters our tracks do not have hills in them which seem to be difficult for horses to go over there because they have never raced with hills. Secondly our tracks are much different, whether it be Moonee Valley with th straight that is on 183 metres or Flemington where the straight is 450 metres. the Australian horses are always pressured to go over to England and race because it is "a much better standard of racing" but we always fail to have your leading horse like Frankel to come to Australia and race on our tracks. Im sure he was a wonder horse in England, but we never saw what he could do in Australia. It may have been the same story as Black Caviar.
***** I don't think she would have been given a spell for 5 months after Ascot if she was fine. She had two muscle tears and severe bruising in her hind quarters. Australia has some of the biggest races in the world when it comes to horse racing. The Melbourne Cup comes to mind. If you speak to every jockey, all of them would have the Cup as there most desired race to win. You don't come to Australia because international horses have to spend up to 10 weeks in quarantine before they can actually run. I will admit, it is much easier for horses to travel around Europe, thats why there are so many coming across to England to race because it is easier. He actually said that the ratings state that Frankel was the best in the world, he never specifically says the he is, please re-watch. Whilst Black Caviar was racing, Australia had the two best sprinters in the world, Black Caviar and Haylist. Black Caviar obviously was unbeatable because she retired winning 25 races from 25. I think that is enough proof to say she was unbeatable.
You're wasting your breath. There is extended coverage of the DJ that shows BC trotting up the straight after the race. If you can't see an injury you're either stupid, blind or don't know what you're looking at. Or a combination of the 3. Vets on course cleared her of serious injury, which would have required immediate intervention. If you watch the extended coverage the commentator says just after the race that "Black Caviar has suffered an injury and may be retired." This was not hyperbole. The horse that won the the Lightning in 2013 would have thrashed any sprinter from Europe in the last 30 years, including Dayjur, on the bridle. Had she been born and raced in the UK she'd have been rated up near Abernant in the rarified air of the 140 club.
You are all wasting your breath, yaking about who WOULD win a horse race is futile- if it could be determined by humans there would be no need for RACING. Keep your trap shut and let the horses do the talking. If they never meet, then it is never descided. End of story.
"decided". And you can make an educated guess by comparing speed over the same distances, stride length, wins over the same types of track surface, dosage numbers, wins over fast track/mud, and against more experienced horses, etc.
I was a huge fan of her (and Winx) from America.
There's also Rain Affair who's won 11 from 14 and a cool million in stakemoney and Ortensia as well. She is a last start Grp1 winner in Dubai
'You won't find a single man or woman who doesn't believe Black Caviar isn't the best in the world?' WTF? Surely he means ''You won't find a single man or woman who doesn't believe Black Caviar IS the best in the world?'
Jimmy had Black Caviar been British they would have claimed her as the 2nd coming. Her record speaks for itself. Track records, race records, Grp1 winning records, highest rate filly/mare in history and remained unbeaten 25/25.......PERFECT !!
The Brits have little to be proud of...so let's be understanding about their delusions of superiority on the racetrack.
except in horseracing mate but your broad point is correct !Ok, how about the horses that have gone to North America from Europe and beaten the yanks in their own back yard ! Read these and then let me know the Oz horses that have won at Ascot or will win at Ascot this year !
Sir Ivor, then Tolomeo, then Pebbles, then Miesque(twice), then Sheikh Albadou, then Dayjur, then Goldikova (won three times), then Arazi, then Giants Causeway, then Ravens Pass, then Henrythenavigator, then Bint Pasha, then Dank, then Ouija Board(WON TWICE),then Islington, then Banks Hill,then Midday, then Wilko, then Johannesburg, then Vale Of York, then ill fated Chriselliam, then Hit A Bomb, then Outstrip, then George Vancouver, then Wrote, then Pounced, then Donativum, then Muhannak, then London Bridge, then Man of Iron, then Sheikhzayedroad, then Sulamani, then Domedriver, then Spinning World, then Barathea, then Ridgewoood Pearl, then Last Tycoon, then Opening Verse, then Royal Heroine and an awful lot more that I cannot remember !!! Wait just remembered St Nick and Dangerous Midge and Conduit (won twice)and Red Rocks and Shirocco and Main Sequence and Magician and Fantastic Light and Kalanisi and Pilsudski and Daylami as well
Aussie horses to have won Grp1's over there in the last dozen years incl Choisir (won Kings Stand & Golden Jubilee weighted as a 4yo when still a 3yo & named Champion Sprinter of Europe), Takeover Target, Miss Andretti (Ascot track record), Scenic Blast, So You Think (5 x Euro Grp1 winner & named World Champion Intermediate Distance Performer and World Champion Extended Distance Performer), Haradasun, Starcraft (2 x Euro Grp1 winner & named Euro Champion Miler), Starspangledbanner (2 x Euro Grp1 winner & named Euro Champion Sprinter), Ortensia, Black Caviar (named Euro Champion Sprinter). The Grp1 winners to runners ratio would be 50% and likely better .
AnotherFastnet70 ...and let's not forget CRISP. In the 1973 Grand National he carried 23 lbs more weight than the UK's all-time best jumper, Red Rum, and was beaten less than a length. At level weights, Crisp beats Red Rum by at least 100 yards.
True ! It was Red Rum`s victims that added to his greatness at Aintree! Crisp started it, then beating a Gold Cup winner ; L`escargot and giving him weight cemented the legend of Red Rum, as did his track record, his National/Scottish National double in 1974 and his third victory in 1977. There was also his deadheat as a two year old and his ability to dodge fallers at Aintree.
Yes let`s Basketcase in a 2 2 ! Sixty five wins abroad for blighty in 2016 compared to one for Oz(in Hong Kong). Gone a bit quiet since the Melbourne Cup 2016 and 2017. Singularly the worst result in Oz racing history last week. Bob Gardiner, B.Gardiner and B.Gardiner2000 has to stand by Oz racing. He can`t stand by his tips. They all lose !
I would have loved to see franker and black cavier goin 1400 it would have been a masterpiece
Scenic Blast: whoareya? See the blue with the yellow cap at 34:20 and at 34:24 beaten by 7.5 lenghts both times. Scenic Blast career record: 28: 8-6-4. Choisir: 23: 7-5-6. Takeover Target: 41: 21-6-4 including group 1 wins in 4 of the 5 Australian mainland states and a group 2 win in WA plus intl wins in Ascot, Singapore and Japan. Miss Andretti 31: 19-3-2, which included her peak from May 06- Nov 07 of 13: 10-1-1 + 4 course records. Hay List: 22: 15-5-0 including 4 seconds to Black Caviar.
Give me a more overrated mollycoddled so called champion to race in Australia over the last 50 years. I can't think of one.
Black Caviar takes the cake.
You don't know what you're talking about with a foolish statement like that.
lol noboby cares what you say anymore
So nobody can give me a more overrated mollycoddled so called champion over the last 50 years in Australia than Black Caviar.
Wonder why.
QUOTE by Pat Hyland the jockey of the great horse in Vain:
"I’m sure Black Caviar will run them off their legs and I reckon she could win over 1600 metres. Had she and Vain met, he would have led and that’s the only part I’m sure of."
END QUOTE.
Anne you're such a fool. As I mentioned to you in a previous post.
No Mare has won the Newmarket carrying 58 kgs in its 142 year history.
Not only did Black Caviar win the Newmarket handicap carrying 58 kilo's which NO mare has ever done.
More importantly she also ran the fastest Newmarket in its 142 years of running, she ran it in 1:07.36
If BC was ridden out all the way to the line and not eased up the last 50 meters she could have broken Iglesia track record of 1:07.16
Keep in mind she also holds the Flemington 1000 meter straight track record, which stood for 25 years when Special broke it back in 1988.
Black Caviar ran it in 55.42 in a track gallop, she wasn't even out of 2nd gear, it was nothing but a exhibition gallop and she could have smashed that track record if she was ridden out to the end.
Most IMPORTANTLY the mighty mare Black Caviar NEVER ever needed a pace maker to assist her in any of her 25 victories, that is what TRUE Champions are made of.
Time to wake up and quit being a HATER of the greatest sprinter in history and a absolute champion.
QUOTE:
"It was discovered during after-race X-rays that Black Caviar had sustained an eight-centimetre muscle tear somewhere in the race. Nolen felt the change in the horse and said he 'thought she'd done enough to get home. I didn't want to annoy her any more.' Moody explained the mare had not coped with the 11,000-mile journey as well as he had hoped or expected. He also described her as appearing "tired and worn out" after the race.
Based on Black Caviar's 22 victories, Timeform rated the Diamond Jubilee as her third lowest performance(116)
However, an examination by veterinarian Peter Angus and chiropractor Michael Bryant later revealed that Black Caviar sustained a grade-four tear of the quadriceps and a grade-two tear of the sacroiliac during the race."
END QUOTE.
Just so you're aware, the vets scale injuries such as lameness and muscle tears from a 1 to 5 - Meaning a 1 being the least amount of damage and 5 being the most amount of damage.
For Black Caviar to endure a grade 4 tear of the quadriceps and do what she did at Ascot is just phenomenal - PERIOD.
The most overrated horse ever to come out of Australia. Placed to win races ,not to be a champion. Average winning margin only 3.1 lengths . Didn't race over 1400 until five. What a powderpuff . Would not rate next to Vain Todman or Luskin Star.
So Col Tidy what was the best horse you have ever seen in Australia . "Vain"
So Ken Callender what was the best sprinter you have ever seen "Vain by a long way"
Might rate it about sixth on a good day. As for beating Frankel. Some sought of sick joke.
Black caviar wouldn't get within four of Vain and god knows how far Frankel would have beaten Black Caviar by,
Great champions smash their opposition not just drift away by three lenghts..
Black caviar needs to sit down and watch Vain winning the Craven A Salinger by 12 or the Champaign by 10 and then go back to school.
Overrated? Are you on drugs?
Anne is a troll... Don't waste ur breath
+Tyson Hillcoat No Anne is right,and it is a very fair comment though the distance thing is the same little chestnut used against Frankel, and it has no bearing on the greatest. The best grass racing in the world is categorically in Europe, and that is proven by the success of Europeans in America and even in Australia`s greatest race. When Black Caviar came to Europe, she was a disappointment really and the performance did not match the hype. Compare her performance to that of Frankel the same week at Ascot, then compare his record of 14/14, 13 @ odd on and 14/14 as favourite. He beat horses who could easily be considered more than just top class ; Canford Cliffs, Excelebration, Farhh, Nathaniel and two World Champions in Cirrus Des Aigles and St Nicholas Abbey. He won his fourteen races with an aggregate distance of 75 lengths and three of his victories were at 1/10, 1/20 and 1/10 again. This is unheard of in Britain and I cannot remember any horse ever winning a Group One race at Royal Ascot at 1/10 - certainly not in the modern era(1970+). Put succinctly, the bookies and betting public felt defeat was out of the question ,whoever he raced and every time they were proven right. If you own any of the above horses, your horse is immortalised because ............." His Majesty" ; Frankel beat them.
+postcardterry Terry, there is another formline that you conveniently leave out. If you draw a line through Zoffany and Frankel he'd have needed to find about 3L to have competed with Black Caviar if you compare ratings in her win over 7F in the CF Orr Stakes. Why doesn't anyone use those formlines? Because it's ridiculous and ignorant to make any comparison with Frankel based on his lowest rated run. Your quote - "Its simple really, Black Caviar was around nine lengths behind Frankel`s level using a line through Moonlight Cloud and Excelebration." Well, it's simple if you're an idiot Terry. You're using a race where BC ran 13lbs below her season average & 20lbs below her peak performance (2011 Newmarket) to compare where she sits in relation to Frankel. Is that what you're saying? Surely you're not that stupid... surely. Moonlight Cloud, who proved herself a very proficient miler in Europe would have been a solid G2 performer in Australia at 5-6F. Ortensia, who could only win at Group 1 level in Aust in Perth beat Sole Power, twice, and won at G1 level in the UK. This is why BC was so highly rated. In an average year European sprinters cannot compete with our G2 horses. The opposite is true (in most years) at middle distances. I have no doubt that Frankel was the superior animal. One of the reasons he received such a high rating was the fact that he could be fully utilised in every race whereas Black Caviar was held together somewhat during her career.
+B Gardiner When you write something Mr Gardiner, please back it with fact and not your own opinion. I have to begin with your drivel about Frankel and Zoffany. You have conveniently forgotten to mention that performance came after a staggering 2,000 Guineas win -the best of my lifetime and it might just be that Tom Queally was a bit indifferent on the horse. It is noticeable that he was never as forceful again on "His Majesty".Nobody uses Australian form as a guide except the domestic Oz people because comparison with world ratings are usually ambiguous ! Have you checked out just how well the OZ horses have done in their best race recently, or would you care to write a list of Oz winners in North America or Europe ? You wrote "BC ran 13 pounds below her best" but where is your proof?? If you are going to use a publication, then also show their yearly profits because it is a "fact" that if these publications really had the answers, they would not be telling you them,or me ! The fact is, and I repeat the fact is, there is always a bloody excuse with you Mr Gardiner ! Another fact, BC was 1/5 at Ascot and won by a head! You say she was half a dozen lengths better and I say she was overrated because Oz horses usually are! In fairness, she did win a shade cosily !Moonlight Cloud was "proficient" was another of your ludicrous opinions. She was a top class multiple Group One mare in Europe -equally effective over all distances from 6 to 8 furlongs, who had a career record of 114/172115/121418/11116/,and won around half a dozen Group Ones in Europe, where the best grass horses in the world are traditionally trained. Then you have the cheek to compare Ortensia to Moonlight Cloud ! Ortensia was an appalling Nunthorpe winner - the race was appalling for a Group One and the best that year was absent ! Are you such a daft ass as to compare her to Moonlight Cloud over 6,7, or 8 furlongs. Moonlight Cloud was a better, and a far more valuable mare who was nearly fav to win a Jacques Le Marois, which is the hottest mile race in Europe mid summer. Your assumptions are at worst jealous and vindictive and just completely unfounded!I notice you use "fact" a lot in your arguments but you can`t bullshit me Mr Gardiner ! A clever man after the event who is crazy enough to compare Oz racing to French, English and Irish ! You are seriously deluded. You bullshit smells bad and that is a fact ! It`s simple, if you are going to use publications as facts, then produce their profit/loss !
I agree that Black Caviar was at least three to five lengths below her best at Ascot. This is a pom saying this as well. Appreciate brilliance , and this mare has it in bundles.
It will be interesting to see how Frankel's two sons go in Cunco & Frankuus in the Stallions Novice Stakes late tonight.
I rarely bet on 2 year old races, however I will be having a bet on Cunco & a saver on Frankuss.
Churchill is at poison odds, currently 4 hours prior to the race.
The Filles, The Mares - Winx, Black Cavair, Zenyatta, Beholder, Song Bird ...
The best sprint races are here in Australia. We do have the best sprinters easily out of everywhere in the world. People just don't want to travel here because of strict quarantine and long distances.
There is no substitute for class and this is the little pearl that Mr WTH74 wrote about his girlfriend today " At least I have a woman and get blown ".Clearly a very classy Oz guy who values the sanctity of a loving relationship !
@c921234 Scenic Blast should be be considered pre & post King Stand Stakes. The Scenic Blast that won the King Stand Stakes after winning the Newmarket with equal top-weight is a far better horse than that we see today. His win over Fleeting Spirit at Royal Ascot was outstanding. IMO would have been able to push Hay List over 5-6F.
My top ten oz sprinters last 50 years 1 vain 2 black caviar 3 luskin star 4 manikato 5 schillaci 6 takeover target 7 placid ark 8 hareeba 9 choisir 10 hay list.
Congratulations to Frankel on the victory of his daughter ; Soul Stirring in Japan at the weekend ! Europeans doing it all over the world ! Just how much are they going to raise "His Majesty`s" stud fee after such a staggering start ?? This particular filly is a out of the wonderful race mare ; Stacelita !
Black Caviar is simply the greatest sprinting horse in history. Her record is unblemished and all but 2 of her wins, when she injured herself, were a mere walk in the park. Effortlessly blinding speed coupled with a will to win made her unbeatable. 15 Group 1 wins only reinforces her greatness.
Peter Moody's so great he can remove ink from paper with his pen @ 2:08 :P
He didn't use a pacemaker as a 2 year old, He used a pacemaker genuinely once as a 3 year old. He practically ignored the pacemaker in the Greenham, 2000 Guineas and St James Palace - He didn't require a pacemaker when he practically shuttled Canford Cliffs off to stud single handledly. Throughout his 4 year old campaign Ballydoyle and Aidan O'Brien entered pacemaker's in the majority of Frankel's races...
agree, but make no mistake...Hay List would be in the top 3 sprinters in the world at present. You can raffle Curren Chan, Rocket Man etc for the last spot.
I'm British , but I have absolutely no doubt that Black Caviar was the greatest sprinter that I have ever seen in 58 years of following horse racing. Having said that Frankel would have had her cooked over a mile.
Well caviar was not really a mile horse so .. yeah
To clarify, I have listed what the press wrote about Black Caviar`s injury that was not !1/.Shortly after the race, the filly sustained an injury to a
suspensory ligament in the her right foreleg which kept her out for the rest of the
season. source :wikipedia
You're NOT clarifying a thing, your just doing what you do best and thats post BULLSHIT.
What you just posted was when Black Caviar was injured in her 3 year old career back in 2009-2010 - Below is the whole write up of her 3 year old career.
QUOTE FROM WIKIPEDIA:
"2009-10: three-year-old season.
Returning as a three-year-old, she won first-up in a listed race by 4 lengths. Stepping up to Group 2 level in the Danehill Stakes at Flemington, she caused concern when she stumbled at the start; however, she recovered to keep her winning run going, beating the colt Wanted, by ¾ of a length. Moody, commenting on the mishap in the early stages said "I certainly had my heart in my mouth".[22] A chest muscle injury sustained in the start[23] kept her out of racing until the following January. That resuming run saw her take on the older horses in the Group 2 Australia Stakes at Moonee Valley, where she won by 2½ lengths. Shortly after the race, the filly sustained an injury to a suspensory ligament in the her right foreleg[24] which kept her out for the rest of the season."
ANOTHER QUOTE FROM WIKIPEDIA WHEN BLACK CAVIAR INJURED HERSELF AT ROYAL ASCOT.
"It was discovered during after-race X-rays that Black Caviar had sustained an eight-centimetre muscle tear somewhere in the race. Nolen felt the change in the horse and said he 'thought she'd done enough to get home. I didn't want to annoy her any more.' Moody explained the mare had not coped with the 11,000-mile journey as well as he had hoped or expected. He also described her as appearing "tired and worn out" after the race.[43] Based on Black Caviar's 22 victories, Timeform rated the Diamond Jubilee as her third lowest performance(116).[citation needed] However, an examination by veterinarian Peter Angus and chiropractor Michael Bryant later revealed that Black Caviar sustained a grade-four tear of the quadriceps and a grade-two tear of the sacroiliac during the race.[44] It was announced that Black Caviar would return to Australia to recover and bypass the originally intended second stage of her international challenge in the July Cup. On 26 June, Moody explained that Black Caviar was expected to recover from her injuries and that, after an extended break, she would be prepared for a third Patinack Farm Classic.[45] On 31 July connections decided Black Caviar would not race during the spring carnival."
I know its hard Terry but try to be HONEST and quit posting BULLSHIT time & time again, it really is making you look beyond FOOLISH.
ah don't cry baby !
Is that all you can come back with of late: "Don't cry baby"
Every time I prove that you are nothing but a pathological liar, who enjoys fabricating stories in order to TRY real hard I might add to sound like you know something.
Didn't mummy teach you Terry, NEVER lie because you will ALWAYS get caught out in the end.
Ok, how about the horses that have gone to North America from Europe and beaten the yanks in their own back yard ! Read these and then let me know the Oz horses that have won at Ascot or will win at Ascot this year !
Sir Ivor, then Tolomeo, then Pebbles, then Miesque(twice), then Sheikh Albadou, then Dayjur, then Goldikova (won three times), then Arazi, then Giants Causeway, then Ravens Pass, then Henrythenavigator, then Bint Pasha, then Dank, then Ouija Board(WON TWICE),then Islington, then Banks Hill,then Midday, then Wilko, then Johannesburg, then Vale Of York, then ill fated Chriselliam, then Hit A Bomb, then Outstrip, then George Vancouver, then Wrote, then Pounced, then Donativum, then Muhannak, then London Bridge, then Man of Iron, then Sheikhzayedroad, then Sulamani, then Domedriver, then Spinning World, then Barathea, then Ridgewoood Pearl, then Last Tycoon, then Opening Verse, then Royal Heroine and an awful lot more that I cannot remember !!! Wait just remembered St Nick and Dangerous Midge and Conduit (won twice)and Red Rocks and Shirocco and Main Sequence and Magician and Fantastic Light and Kalanisi and Pilsudski and Daylami as well !
@MultiPurdy have to correct you on one point though. Rugby is the most popular sport in NSW & QLD ONLY. Aussie Rules is the most popular sport in Vic, Tas, SA ,WA & NT and it's also Australia's most popular sport, hence the reason TV stations pay $250 million a year to the AFL to secure the rights against $91 million a year to the NRL.
Correction of your correction...Rugby LEAGUE (NRL) is the most popular sport in NSW and Queensland but the sport of Rugby (Union) is also played in strong numbers. After Association Football (Soccer) Rugby Union is the most popular football code in the world. Typically Victorians struggle with this despite the fact that the Melbourne Storm are current NRL Champions.
@@flamingfrancis the biggest drawing professional sports team in Sydney this century has been the AFL's Sydney Swans despite Sydney being a stronghold for both Rugby codes. The AFL is without doubt the biggest sporting league in Australia with daylight second. The AFL generates 300% more revenues than the NRL. In fact, the AFL is one of the world's premier sporting leagues by virtually every measure. Typically Victorians do not struggle with the fact that the Melbourne Storm are the NRL's winningest team since their inception. To say "Rugby Union is the most popular football code in the world" is actually misleading. There is no Rugby Union league in the world that comes close to the NFL in terms of popularity, revenue or ave. attendance. The NFL generates more than 30 x the revenue of the world's biggest Rugby Union league, Championnat de France de rugby à XV. Even the AFL generates 3 x the revenue of that league. The NFL is not only the world's biggest football code league it is the world's biggest league for any sport. In terms of ave. attendances the AFL is again the biggest sporting league in Australia with daylight second. The AFL ave. attendance is 36,317. Second on that list is the Big Bash League on 20,544. Third is the NRL with 15,804, marginally ahead of the Women's Big Bash League with 14,450.
BC's won 5 races since Frankel's last start & she's got at least 2 more races before Frankel's next one. The best racehorse in the word actually... races!
I worked in ballydoyle for nearly five years .and I did see the best horses in the world at that time from 1998 to 2003...but I honestly say ..she would beat what was in ballydoyle.and further afield..she was that good...a machine..
No doubt I’m my mind that Moody blunted her with those 2 runs in Adelaide
She was over the top by Ascot when she should have been fresh
People who talk about champions should remember that champions are what people make of them.Black Caviar is the best sprinter Australia have ever had & they have had some truly great sprinters.As Australia doesn't have the strength of Milers or Middle distance horses ie the UK/Europe has they are famous for sprinters & as Black Caviar has proved herself so good she is a champion at a trip Australia produce the best horses at.She has the highest rating of any sprinter worldwide & has never lost..
Peter Moody is so honest when he says that we don't want a meat pie champion. The English seem to protect themselves by not taking on the big guns of the racing world. They will run horses for three starts and then retire them for breeding.Black caviar traveled around the world to beat the English best. What a NZ /AUS champion. I saw her run twice at Morphetville racetrack in Adelaide . She absolutely killed them. Made them look them rate.
Without doubt the most protected mollycoddled horse i have ever seen . One start at 5 over 1400. Pathetic.
turn, keeping in mind there's a Golden Slipper back there in third position. Black Caviar finds herself 4 lengths down on Hay List with 300 to go, and she ends up 3 in front on the line, that's 7 lengths quicker in a furlong and half. Again look at the Newmarket, watch Black Caviar untouched already pulling away from Crystal Lily, and then when she's asked for an effort, she puts 4 lengths gap between them in the blink of an eye, and that's off proper sprinting pace.
I've wored in ballydoyle from 1998 to bout 2003 ..I see the best horses in the world at that time ..but this mare would beat them all any distance. That's how good this mare was.
You change the racing system everyday know instead of every 2 weeks but I still find those lucky numbers🤣👍
Carbine is an interesting horse,especially if breeding interests you.I seriously doubt Australians consider him a champion in the same way they considered Phar Lap.
Carbine was foaled in 1885,his story is historically extremely important especially to the breed.Phar lap was a gelded in an attempt to have him concentrate on his racing & the rest including people trying to shoot him & the reasons behind his death is history.
To all the doubters about Black Caviars ability ( mainly the poms) just wait until you see the greatest show on earth - lets see if your sprinters can match it with her.
Do yourself a favour poms - get your arse to Ascot and see her run maybe just maybe this Aussie horse will win a few more fans in the UK.
Good to hear - although many Aussies forget ( or maybe they don't know ??? ) that POM stands for Prisoner Of Mother (England). We ( the Scots, Irish and Welsh - the Celts ) regard ourselves as a different race from our English neighbours. Different mindset, and they hate the fact that we support every country who compete against them at any sport - incuding cricket, which 99.9% of Scots neither like or play.
Okie man anh trai oi
Seattle Slew and Dr. Fager hands down fastest horses ever...Carried weight and ran 23 and change finishing quarters.continually.
+ed schwind Black Caviar broke 10sec for a 200m sectional. She was also easily breaking 23 and she did it coasting to the line
Not at Ascot she didn`t ! She did not even beak standard Ascot time !
As far as training race horses is concerned, Peter Moody is to Sir Henry Cecil as the Australian Socceroos are to the Spanish national football team. At any distance below 6 furlongs, Black Caviar would probably beat Frankel. At 7 furlongs and beyond, Frankel would emerge victorious.
Good suuuper
@ThefightingCelt Now you're an expert on Australian Rules football too? Is there any end to your sporting expertise?
Lets see how many runners there are in the Diamond Jubilee this year. My bet is there will be less than usual due to the Black Caviar factor
A great sprinter..i had a good win on him at his first start,after watching his first barrier trial..Wish i had known how good he was i could have made a fortune.
HE?
Good God imagine the racing beast a foal from Black Caviar and Secretariat would've been. 😂❤
Secretariat and Ruffian, better match
.....Makybe Diva, Northerly, Lonrho, Grand Armee, Private Steer, Emancipation, Might and Power etc who all would have been winning middle distance/mile races at Grp1 level in Europe in the last 30 years. There's not enough space to list the sprinters who would have dominated in Europe had they gone over. Oh and you can add the likes of Haradasun, Catalan Opening, So You Think, Ortensia, Black Caviar (next week) to the list of International Grp1 winners from down under
Great video. I can tolerate people saying that Black Caviar is better than Frankel (even though she isn't) but I wont stand for somebody saying that Frankel hasn't beaten much. Frankel has beaten Canford Cliffs who was unbeaten in over a year before the Sussex and Excelebration was hailed by Botti as being the best miler he's ever trained. Add to Frankel's victims Roderic O'Connor, Dream Ahead, Immortal Verse, Dick Turpin and Poet's Voice.
@ThefightingCelt Aussie Rules footballers are some of the overall fittest athletes on the planet. Up there with triathletes (100's of footballers compete in triathlons over the summer months) and ironmen. Aussies Rules football is a more skillful game. You need to master skills with hand & foot as well as the body. Oval shaped ball & therefore never bounces straight. The field of play is much larger therefore greater endurance is required. I do like the attacking nature of EPL football though
@MultiPurdy That is why I made the unfair comparison. Like Cecil and Moody, they're Worlds apart ! I have attended an Oz pro soccer match, attended by Croatians.The Aussies have many fine players plying their trade throughout Europe. Because of their colonial past, Australia and America consciously decided to invent alternative sports as a way of creating their own "new" cultural identities and at the same time distancing themselves from most British sports - although Australia did keep cricket
That rating is from the international federation of horseracing authorities not timeform
Hi Canterville - Agree! ... yes Ruffian, No horse looked so Regal , so loyal too a fault...
What about the males Phar Lap : an Aussie Legand !
Lonhro
(The Black Flash)
Scat Daddy ... so so
Many ... Most humans barely measure up to the loyalty of a HORSE.
Quiet Dignity & Grace♡
Frankel, Amazing Frankel named after New York trainer Bobby Frankel.
Street Cry & his foals
..... Who comes even near WINX's record & Grace?
if a race horse has to have "help" a.k.a. a pacemaker to race then that disqualifies them in my mind. There are great horses out there, past and present, that win by means of achievement and not needing additional "help" from medical devices.
Frankel down to the ground with his speed advantage over any other miler wouldn't be advantageous against BC that is for certain.
In Aust, Aussie bred sire Exceed and Excel, the sire of Excellebration, gets sprinters with 95% of his progeny. All his good or Group winning sons and daughters are genererally 5 - 6f horses. Excellebration does not get a strong mile imo, just like 95% of his brothers and sisters. As for Frankel's split times, if you search for them you can find some of them. Of course all of Black Caviars can be found
she's coming over here (england) at the right time, we don't have strong sprinters at the moment, bated breath or hoof it are our best chances, dream ahead would have beaten her or given her a good race last year.
All this talk about Frankel beating average horses is unfounded. Canford Cliffs defeated Goldikova in the Queen Anne before getting stuffed by Frankel. But lets give credit to both Black Caviar and Ortensia who came over here and showcased the quality of aus sprinting.
bated breath and stone of folca have just beaten her times over 5f! I don't think she'll get beat, i'd love to see her win, but she's going to be praying for that finishing line to be closer!!