The Look Back Diaries Episode 85 with Rachel Kiley
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 02. 2023
- And things get heavy.
Support Ashley on Patreon: / ashleyclements
Follow Ashley:
/ theashleyclem
/ theashleyclem
www.ashleyclements.net/
Follow Rachel:
/ rachelkiley
/ rachel_kiley
Watch The Lizzie Bennet Diaries: • Consequences - Ep: 85
Subtitles (and opinions) by Sophie Lesher - Krátké a kreslené filmy
It's so weird to me that Rachel got hate for this because, devastating as all of this was, I remember feeling so grateful to the writers for coming up with a way to make this arc feel true to P&P without Lydia ending up with Wickham. It hadn't even occurred to me that that was a possibility, so as the Lydia videos were coming out I was so torn between "I need them to not end up together" and "but they have to, it's part of the story" so I was desperate to know how the show was going to reconcile that, and it did not disappoint!
I didn't think about the location change back then, except maybe as an unconscious transition forward. But looking at it now, the show would have been poorer had we gone back to Lizzie's room. That would take her back to her old patterns--living at home scared of the future, judging and making fun of everyone, her combative dynamic with Lydia. The location change visually marks the growth she experiences in this arc with Lydia, Darcy, her career. She's a new person by the end and I don't think that would sink in as well if she were back in her old room. How funny that the new location just came from the logistical realities of a change in apartments.
I loved the Wickham/Lydia videos, painful as they were, specifically because they showed abuse and manipulation on camera. I remember people identifying every red flag in the comments, pointing out the seemingly innocuous things George did to isolate and slowly cut Lydia down. The videos aren't supposed to be PSAs, but they are incredibly effective examples of what abuse can look like.
Like Ashley, I was so worried and so thankful it wasn't a pregnancy. It wouldn't have hit nearly the same way. This is much worse (in terms of consequences, emotions, etc) and better (for the story). MK's acting in this arc is incredible. She had probably the most difficult role to portray, and she nailed it. I cried multiple times throughout this arc, and that's not what you expect from 6-minute CZcams vlogs. Kudos to the writers, the trans media team, and the rest of the cast, but without MK's gut-wrenching reaction, and her work over the next few episodes, this could have fallen very flat.
This is barely relevant to your comment, but it just occurred to me: is transmedia always that multimedia storytelling, and is trans media always media about trans people, or can both terms be used for both concepts? 🤔
Isn't this around the time Lydia started liking negative tweets about her? I remember hearing she would like tweets that said stuff like "Ugh I wish this didn't happen right when Lizzie and Darcy were gonna go on a date."
This is the kind of stuff that made episode 87 so good. "You think I don't know what they're saying?" after quoting things that the fans were most definitely saying. Lydia's lines and Mary Kate's performance in that episode are amazing.
I commented before reading this and I'm so glad I remembered correctly - I thought it might have been fanfiction that I was remembering - but yes! Lydia did react to tweets about it that were like against her. It was so heartbreaking!
:O that's a whole other level of transmedia. So sad!
Lizzie had to be the one to confront Lydia based on her assumptions for her own growth. That totally makes sense and it's heartbreaking.
so i've thought a lot about lizzie's immediate assumption that lydia knew about the website. more than just not watching lydia's videos, i think it also had a lot to do with gigi. a week and a half ago she was talking about how george convinced her to let him move into her condo. lizzie says it herself; "[george] has a history of convincing smart women to do dumb things." as far as lizzie is concerned, wickham's modus operandi is to manipulate and charm the girl into agreeing. through that lens, it doesn't seem like as much of a stretch that she assumed lydia knew what was happening
Plus, the idea that Lydia knows is far less horrible than the idea she doesn't. If she knows, she still has agency and can do something to change the outcome. If she doesn't, she is being abused and exploited with no way out of what's coming.
@@kellyburds2991 Yeah part of Lizzie probably couldn't even comprehend that idea until the reality became obvious :(
it's also like, to immediately assume that your baby sister is the victim of revenge p*rn. it's so awful it's almost unthinkable so i get where lizzie is coming from there.
These few episodes are a hard watch, and that is a testament to the writing and directing. It hurts so good.
The best drama takes you on an emotional ride; it makes you feel. You can't fully feel the "ups" if you don't also feel the "downs". So being upset or threatening a writer for making you feel is ... well ... moronic.
Blocking strangers on the internet is my cardio. I wish CZcams had more options for viewers and not just creators.
One thing that has changed for me personally about how I view this episode over the decade is that now I deeply relate to Lizzie getting kicked out of her room. Somewhere during my college/grad school years, my mother turned my bedroom into her orchid room, because it "had the best light." My bed and books were still there, but now there's a couple dozen orchids in between them.
But on a more serious note, I can never watch this episode and episode 87 too close together, because even with 86 in between as a buffer, it's still too many feels in too short a time span. I will break down sobbing.
As someone who was around when the drama played out live, I think there were lessons to be learned on both sides - the fans and you guys. I remember it being absolutely brutal - but also seeing both sides of it. Because, while it is absolutely true that fans were reacting very emotionally to the storylines, I remember it also being a lesson for you all that there's a reason why creators/writers/showrunners need to be careful while navigating fan spaces. But, I also absolutely agree that writers shouldn't be made the targets of fan discontent, especially on network and cable shows where it gets downright hostile.
But then in a weird way the turbulence in the fandom keeps with the dark tones of these episodes. I watched the Lydia videos and like you said the contrast is stark and I remember feeling sick to my stomach and horrified. It's a testament to how well-done those episodes are. I even remember reading some fans opining that the episodes triggered them and it's not hard to see why - I do vaguely remember reading a post where someone called for a trigger warning to put on those videos because it depicted psychological and emotional manipulation almost to a tee.
And Lizzie neither saw nor wanted to see any of that, and so seeing her blame Lydia for it here was a jaw-dropping moment for me. This was the first time I was able to see Lydia's side of things - I was staunchly Team Lizzie in the Decemeber episodes. But here, I saw where she (and I) was wrong. MK's acting in this arc is out of this world. It's raw. Anyhoo, I'm looking forward to riding this storm out again with you.
10 years makes such a difference. We understand the internet better and some people behave appropriately. It was still relatively new then, as was this format. Trigger Warnings are used much more now ...some people might say too frequently for minor things. The abusive (cos that's what it was) relationship *was* triggering. Now we know better, we can do better. Kudos to Rachel for calling herself out, that's a hard thing to do.
@@francesduncandoes Absolutely. I agree - I love that she took accountability. The whole thing sparked a lot of talk about the dangers of breaking the fourth wall, especially since LBD is a show that primarily does that. But, even then, when a creator enters into a fan space, there's no way to avoid polarization. And it was kind of surprising to see how even a show with a comparatively smaller audience than your standard TV show could generate fandom drama. LOL.
If you think about it LBD was one of the few shows that tackled an abusive relationship openly on this platform, even if they didn't quite label what it is that Lydia was undergoing. That was part of the reason why some were calling for a TW.
And yeah, TWs are used more liberally now because it's better to err on the side of caution these days - because you just don't want to give anyone a chance to report your video and risk a strike.
I thought Lizzie assumed Lydia knew because the possibility she doesn't know is too horrible to contemplate.
I was initially shocked she assumes Lydia consented and then I saw a comment like this and thought that makes sense. Lizzie thinks Wickham manipulated Lydia into agreeing, but she doesn't realise it could be worse that that.
I always assumed that they moved to the den because none of the menfolk reconciliations would ever have happened in Lizzie’s bedroom. I just can’t picture Bing and Jane getting back together anyplace that private.
Yeah and Lizzie is then near the door in a public room when Darcy shows up!
Yeah, I can't really rewatch this one much. It's too heartbreaking. Well done, everyone!
For me, it always kind of made sense that Lizzie would assume Lydia was part of putting the tape online, but not even in the sense of "well Lizzie always thinks the worst of Lydia." I think there's something very natural and human to, when receiving bad news, try to view it in the most positive light, almost as a way of self-protection. Because Lydia being in on the decision to share the tape really is the better scenario. It makes preventing the tape from going online easier, and it's also far less devastating. Yes, she would still be a victim of manipulation and abuse on behalf of George and it's still awful, but it still prevents Lydia from experiencing the violation of revenge porn. I can understand why Lizzie (or anyone, really) would conclude the sharing of the tape was consensual, because the alternative is so painful to even think about. Yes, Lizzie still has a lot of learning and growing to do in regards to her views and treatment of Lydia, but this particular assumption never struck me as being something bad for Lizzie to do.
I actually came to the series late, so I binged everything up to this point, and then caught episode 85 in real time. Having this been the first moment in the series where I couldn't continue and instantly see what happened next made it that much more painful. And truthfully, I think that's a big part of the reason why the series has stuck with me the way it did.
It's funny, the podcast Hot and Bothered have been reading through Pride and Prejudice these past few months, at about the same pace as the look back diaries in terms of story beats. I can't remember who they had on who said they consider Pride and Prejudice to be a coming of age book rather than a romance. I feel that LBD really captures that for all the main characters. It's been wonderful revisiting the show and learning all these behind the scenes facts!
Honestly I think 85 and 87 are the two I rewatch the most, even more than the Darcy episodes, because of just how raw they are. MK's reaction here (ONE SHOT for her whole emotional progression over a solid minute! Seriously!), and then both of you in the apology scene in 87, are the emotional peak of the already solid acting throughout this series.
Edit: I also just realized, MK is in the scene for just under two minutes, so her reaction after you hand her the phone is over half of her screen time, and the sisters' initial argument lasts under a minute. Amazing how much progression is packed into the dialogue here!
I definitely missed the hate part of the reaction to these episodes. I believe that it happened, and I'm sorry that it did. And I'm grateful that I avoided it because this arc was powerful. I was primarily in the fandom section that tried to interact in character, and I remember in the comments under Lydia's videos, it was customary to include a link to a website like Psychology Today or RAINN with a list of relationship red flags and calling out which ones George was guilty of in the video and trying to persuade Lydia to leave him. But we all understood what the point was. And in fact, I recall at least a few times, girls in the comments thanking the writers because seeing George doing what he did to Lydia allowed them to identify the toxicity of their own relationships.
I thank Rachel and Jay and the rest of the writers for taking the whole Lydia/George (and Gigi/George) as seriously as they did. It was a difficult storyline, and even in the early 2010s it was still so rare to see non-physically violent abuse portrayed as abuse. The last Twilight film only came out in 2012, and those super toxic relationship dynamics were still super popular with a lot of the target demographic for LBD.
In this arc, I remember like for right before and right after every video drop, there was a Tumblr post that would get circulated - or maybe it was multiple posts that all had basically the same message - "Don't complain about not getting Dizzie content in the comments or on Twitter because Lydia is going to see it, and she needs our support!" I *think* (this is a much fuzzier memory and it might have been fanfiction) but I think I remember "Lydia" on Twitter reacting to comments about how she was ruining the fun of the Pemberley arc.
I was watching this last night kinda beating myself up a little for not realizing all of Lizzie's faults as a character the first time I watched the show (as it came out, I was one of the crew introduced through Hank Green's promo video) and then I realized I WAS IN EIGHTH GRADE. Now that I am turning 24 next month I see them very clearly and can enjoy Lizzie in an entirely new way and she teaches me a lot because I see a lot of myself in her still. Ten years???? Still unbelievable.
I loved this arc in a heartbreaking way, MK was brilliant! I’d get to work early in the morning when it was released Aussie time and cry in my car in the work car park.
Aw, we love a good car cry
I don't think I've watched this episode since it came out and the way Lydia SOBS still haunts me to this day.
Even though I rewatch the show regularly I can never bring myself to sit all the way through this episode.
Making the point about how Wes as a person is very handsome and that making George’s actions as bad as they were is something I just mentioned to a friend in the D&D community. It’s a joke in our community that the Big Bad Evil Guy is very handsome and charismatic, but it makes sense in developing the story you are telling. It’s the first real time where you get that moment of “what do I find to be a dealbreaker, what is irredeemable in my eyes?” What that reveals to the character is the strength of their moral resolve, or rather how fragile that resolve is.
If you are playing a Druid with a strong belief in protecting nature, but the BBEG comes in and clear-cuts a forest in front of you and you let it happen, it may reveal that maybe your character has some deep-rooted flaw or insecurity that they have been running from.
I keep getting startled every time I hear "MK". 🤣
She did an amazing job in the arc and a lot of that credit does have to do with Rachel's writing. Great to hear her talk about it, especially because I wasn't around when the episodes first aired.
I know that part of the hate at the time basically came because it was episodic and we had to wait for the next part. Going back and watching the arc in succession, you do see how the writers knew how to respectfully approach this topic and portray the rawness of such a horrible action without being inappropriate.
I read the Lydia bennet book and while I LOVE Lydia in it I had to take it off my shelf because it just hurt me too much...too many feels because I love Lydia
FYI The caption are only auto-generated this episode
Yeah, this one is so good but sooo hard too watch
HELLLO :)