Do the Marshall Vietnamese transformers sound any good?? MAV vs Mercury TONE TEST!!
Vložit
- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- headfirst.amplification@gmail.com
headfirstamplification.com
/ headfirst.amplification
/ 225949122469679
/ headfirstamps.jason
0:00 Intro
1:31 Mercury supplied transformers
1:54 MAV whine!
2:14 Comparing voltages from the PT
3:41 A/B Tone Test
5:07 Conclusions
6:55 MAV full play thru
8:24 Mercury full play thru - Hudba
I build amps and also build the transformers for my amps. When I started building transformers I did some tests. You can get the voltages you want with more or less wire depending on the core density number you use to calculate the turns. If I use higher values for density, less wire needed. Lower values for density, more turns, more wire. I noticed that when higher values used there was a point where I started noticing that ringing on the power transformer. I guess they are going to the limits saving wire. That’s bad because those transformers get hotter and have to work harder to supply the current demand from the tubes. So when I build my transformers I use a relatively low value for density to get a more reliable, more stable transformer that runs very cold. I guess not a good practice for production amps😂😂
Can you make a detailed tutorial on how to make them? You would save lot of money for all of us and you would be the first doing so on youtube.🥸
@@myuncle2 I will. Don’t know how soon but, I will.😁😁
That would be much appreciated, if you could include me. I have always wanted to build a power and output transformer.
I bet Dave Friedman is laughing. Great time for him to bring out his plex line
There is only one Plexi. The Marshall Plexi. Marshall got there first. Dave Friedman is nothing but a copycat PARROT 🦜
Except Dave has some issue with Mercury Magnetics but yeah, I’m excited to try out his vintage line.
@@louderthangod yeah Dave will be laughing all the way to the bank when you pay his ridiculous prices, if he can build one, so can I for a lot less
@@buzzedalldrink9131 Then do it. Post some clips and let’s see how it turns out. I’m gonna guess you won’t and when you realize the hours of labor it takes to make these and how small your profit margin will be.
@@buzzedalldrink9131 Haha, he sure has some high pricing. Crazy!
That was some pretty stark differences Jason, I reckon your demos are just about the best on youtube, fantastic audio and appropriate playing
I think this just supports the discussion that you had with Santiago, that Transformer differences are really only slight. Quality of construction though is worth the change.
Completely agree
I really appreciate how generous you are with your knowledge and research. That's rare. Thank you. This is good stuff.
The Mercury's def sounded fuller in the lows/mids, and the top end didn't sound harsh like the MIV.
Nailed it. That's exactly how I heard them and YT audio isn't great. I'm sure in the room it was night and day.
@@seanrosedotcom I mean, I bet it would be easier to tell without YT Audio for sure, but in the end, I'm sure either would be fine, but my gripe is the noise issues with these transformers, and considering Marshall is asking pretty crazy money for new amps, it's a bit of a let down. You can tell it's guys in buisness suits going exxceeellleeennntt over the $100 they save of each amp, instead of caring about the legacy, and just charging an extra $100 than what they are charging with the cheap one's, or whatever it cost. People would pay it if they were transparent about the decision, and the haters who whine about it would get weeded out pretty quick, as they probably aren't the one's buying the amps. Whatever though. I dunno if enough people said something, if they may change back, but I doubt it, so just upgrade it yourself at this point if you feel the need I guess lol.
Ive been waiting for this.... good work Jason
Nice work Jason. Great info and playing as always.
I’ve always wanted to see a transformer A/B, especially in a Marshall. That Mercury definitely sounds more “right” IMO. Great video Jason!
For me, there was very little, if any audible difference that is worth the expense of changing them.
If you don’t mind my asking, what were you listening through?
I've listened to it on both my phone and my home stereo surround theatre system and as I said the slight difference doesn't justify the price of changing. In a live setting know one would notice.
Totally. Not worth upgrading an existing one, but if you were building from scratch you might want to consider build quality and reliability Vs price of course. I think the ringing in the room in a recording at home scenario would get tedious fast 😅
@@jasonhudson5357 hearing quite a difference via this recording says alot, because being in the room I suspect would make the difference much more dramatic. Jason will answer this question in the next video
@@megatoneampsI think you're right. It'll make more of a difference in the room as opposed to the recording. I barely heard a difference at all.
The MAV is a little brighter above 4k and has less subs, say below 50Hz. Choosing which sounds better in a recording is so subjective that another opinion just doesn't matter. Moving the mic or changing the settings on the amp would have a significantly more profound tonal affect.
What of course clips don't highlight is build quality, specs (and subsequently voltages) and durability - so I'm glad Jason spoke to these. For many people - especially amp builders - these factors are far more important than slight EQ differences.
Personally a transformer with a ringing overtone, lightweight construction and questionable specs is off the table - regardless of how close it sounds in clips to a premium-grade unit.
Mercury sounded better thicker and warmer and to me the amp sounded like it was running at full power! This was a cool video! maybe marshall will see this and learn from it.
Doubt it and yes MM are way better
You'd hope, but probably won't happen, The dudes in suits are too worried about making whatever extra their gunna make by buying shitty transformers. Best case is they find cheap transformers that don't have noise issue, but they've probably already got a warehouse full of them because of the money they saved buying 100,000 at a time lol.
Can't agree that the Merc's sounded warmer. They sounded louder, and looser, but actually harsher and more icy in the treble. To me the stock trannies sounded quieter in volume but not as noisy. The Merc's sounded as if someone had switched on a spring reverb, turned in on full until it started feeding back and clashing with itself 'til it started canceling. That's just to my ears. The stock trannies did sound better but showed a lack of power.
I had Mercury Magnetics transformers and a choke put in my Vietnamese made DSL100H, and a mod to bring the volumes close on the crunch channels. Wow, what a difference!! My amp tech was like, are you sure this is the Marshall you want to invest in, because you'll never get your money back out of it, but I love it and will never sell it. It runs cool as a cucumber now and sounds massive.
And OMG, aren't they nice to look at!?
That's interesting to me because I was debating buying that exact amp, but what exactly do you mean about the other mod you had to bring crunch volumes together?
@chrisgmurray3622 The version I have has the power tubes mounted directly to the chassis, which is best IMHO. There's still PCB, but nothing that runs hot is on it. I actually got the idea for the mod from this guy, so check out his video!
I'm a huge DSL fan. I have a 40C with white tolex and a Creamback, a 40CR with a Vintage 30, the upgraded/modded 100H that I run with a Marshall Mode Four V30 cab, and 100CR.
The master volume models are great with the 6 button switch, because it remembers which master volume and if the effects loop is on for all four channels, and you can balance it like a proper 4 channel amp live, although they all share one tone stack. So for flexibility, the newer master volume versions are fun. However, I feel like the non-master volume DSLs (DSL40C, DSL100H) just sound richer and fuller. But they have the drawback of only being able to switch between two of the four "channels" with a footswitch. However, it was the rich tone that led me to invest in the 100H rather than the 100HR, and I am thrilled after putting well over $1,000 into an amp I paid $700 for...
The choke really sweetens the clean crunch channel in particular. The choke had to be mounted inside the chassis due to space considerations.
czcams.com/video/vMC_nrcwZGQ/video.htmlsi=5fc7Dqo5eSfkfChp
I’ve always heard, and found from experience that 450v plate voltage is the sweet spot. I’ve also been in the transformers are the one component with the biggest impact on amp tone. Your test aligns with testing I’ve done myself in the past
Great videos. Very helpful and informative. May I suggest when doing back to back comparisons that it would be very helpful to play the same riff for let’s say 4 bars with A, then again the exact same 4 bar riff with B.
Mercury magnetics are so friggin expensive. I have always wondered if they're worth it. I have been told they're nice but nothing special. That has lead me to not spend the extra cash.
Thanks so much for this! You have an amazing channel and deserve so many more views and subs. I'll keep promoting you!
It was hard for me to tell much of a difference because I was distracted by those tasty licks! 😎👍🏻
Haha, thanks 🙏
Transformer changes are always interesting and subjective! Well, that’s my experience anyhow. I’ve done a couple of swaps and the results weren’t dramatic differences, but certainly some tonal changes. The Mercury transformers do indeed sound fantastic. I love how they massage the high end add some midrange and clarity. The Marshall transformer makes it sound…. well like a Marshall if that makes sense 😊 slightly spiky - aggressive top end - a little untamed. Transformer humming and whistling aside both sound good I think. Just comes down to which flavour of Marshall people would like to have 😊🙏🏽🤟🏽 great video Jason. Have an excellent day dude!
Thanks for doing this video, after seeing your last one on transformers I checked my 2022 JCM 800 and it has a Dagnall power transformer and a Vietnamese output transformer. I haven't noticed any weird sounds coming from it, but at least now if I want to replace it I know what transformer to get.
I think this would have been more fun if you had not revealed which was which and had a poll to guess
The sound difference is audible in this context and yes, the Mercury Magnetics equipped one sounded a bit fuller and a bit less harsh. But in a band context that doesn't mean shit. Both versions will give you the typical JCM800 sound and both will do the job gig after gig after gig. If you want to spend the dough and you are tone purist in your studio or bedroom of your dentist practice, absolutely go for the Mercury Magnetics swap. But for most working musicians the stock JCM800 is and will be a great fucking amp.
just ignore the ringing in your head...
Mercury's all day. From past and current experience, MM all the way. Great video. Thank you!
Also, they both do sound great. I would use either. With a choice, MM again, flat out. The saturation and compression are amazing.
Nice one. Would be cool to hear further comparisons with other stuff on the market (like Hammonds which seem more readily available in Australia). I wonder down the line, should any components go microphonic like ceramic caps, if that ring in the PT could become a real problem.
Just after seeing your video I checked my JCM800 from 2023, same ringing…Thank‘s so much for your videos, they are the best when it comes to Marshall tones! And yes, the Mercuries sounded better! Cheers from Germany!
I can't claim that I have the best ears (especially for CZcams comparisons) but the difference was slight to me. When I a/b'd back and forth, the Mercury does seem to have a more open and livelier sound, more "rich" if that makes any sense. And though the difference was slight, that difference would be more than enough to warrant a swap for me. It's kinda silly for Marshall to do this, it's just gonna be more warranty work they will have to pay for when the cheap transformers keep making that weird sound and then begin to fail. I wonder if they are using these in the HW SLP's as well.
Mercury Magnetics sounded awesome - a lot better to my ears. Thick through the low/low mids and smoother through the mids and highs, without harshness. Comparatively, the Vietnamese transformers sounded pretty harsh through the upper mids and highs to me, as well as a little thin. Pretty underwhelming. I listened through headphones but even through my phone with the volume set lower, the difference in the upper mids/highs was pretty noticeable. One of the best boutique amps I've ever heard/owned has Mercury's throughout, although it's unfortunate that their price is so high. Thanks for this video Jason!! Love your videos and streams. 👋
Had no idea transformers affected the sound that much. I preferred the Mercury - sounded less harsh and more warm to my ears. Great video!
Transformers make a HUGE difference in amps and especially the Output transformer.
The next big one after speakers.
@@Mark70609 speakers are 30%of your tone, yes, another biggie!
The tone is all in the transformers.
Tone is all in the transformers
Killer test! If you are interested in power transformers would you do this test again with more of them? Heyboer, Hammond, dagnall, etc…
You havent livestreamed in a while mate, a well deserved break I'm sure but I've been missing hanging out with the gang, any plans for the next one?
Yeah, I’ve had a lot on, life stuff…I can explain it when I do the next stream. Lol. I’ll be back.
Very interesting. I would think this transformer issue is probably also the case with the Jubilee 2555X...probably the whole line at this point? (I've noticed a price decrease on most heads right now as well). Thank you for your time and video.
Awesome idea. ; )
I'm glad all my Marshalls are made before the change! 3500 in the US for an 800. The juice isn't worth the squeeze or should I say Squeal
Thanks for the great test. For my builds I mostly use hammond transformers. I often wondered how the much more expensive MMs would perform (same ratio). Your test showed a difference in tone but I would asume that this mostly comes from the difference in voltage. Would you say that the MMs "feel" different? Is there a thing that just can't capture with a recording? Did you also test just replacing the OT?
Hi JAse..Love ya vids as always.... Would have been easier to tell if you did a short clip with same riff a/b with diff trannies.... Still think MM sounds a bit thicker in the mids but is that just voltage or anything to do with OT.....I like the vid lyle did with the ac30 wodden/albion and he had the 2 on switches...... Dangerous yes I know LOL
That’s what I did do. Same riff a/b.
I could tell a difference in the low end. The MAV didn't hold together as well as the Mercury, and they were a tad harsh in places. I've wondered how much of a difference transformers make in an amplifier, and now I know. Thank you for sharing this video.
Was there still any hum, or ringing oscillations with the Mercury's or was that completely eliminated after the swap? The audible difference was very small over CZcams, the stock MIV just sounded a bit harsh and brittle in the top end. Still a very worthy comparison for sure and good info on the voltages great video Jason 👍
Well thanks, you saved me future money since I planned to upgrade to MM on some of my amps, and to me (at decent volume on studio monitors) there is a sound difference, but it is so tiny nobody would notice on stage or in a full mix. I'm not even sure that a lot of people would get right answers in a blind test !
Now from a technical point of view, MM are clearly better.
But still, OT, PT and choke are altogether a roughly 800 $ upgrade, plus the hard work (or paying a tech) of the transformers swap, it not a "change a few resistors" trick ... I'm not sure it is worth it.
I preferred the MM: better balance and not harsh. I scratch built my Deluxe Reverb and used MM transformers in it and they sound amazing there as well. Recommended for sure!
Thanks Jason! Big difference. Do you reckon a transformer swap would cure the immanent Vietnamese DSL/Origin shrillness?
In the mid nineties, the other guitarist in one of the bands I played in had a JCM 800. It was a wild amp! No gain pedals necessary at all, but would blow it's fuse every third rehearsal/gig and had a very noticeable vibration in the head when it was switched on. Like it was trembling with anger......
That's odd, I had two JCM800 amps in the late eighties and early nieties, but they weren't those one channel metal machines like the one tested here. They were (I think) 2210's? I'm not sure, but one was a combo the other a head, they had two channels with independent eq's an overall master volume, and spring reverb. They never sounded harsh or sharp on my ears, and I used to run them both in stereo in a wedding band of all things... never failed, and never had a problem with them fir being too loud or sounding harsh. All I ever did to themm was rebuild the combo into a head unit and replace and rebias the output tubes with Groove tubes soft sevens. They never failed or became noisy and I never had so much as a crackling pot or a blown fuse. The head unit was second hand and the combo was new but neither gave me any trouble.
I sent my brother a Marshall quad box that had been lying around after he told me he was gifted an old 800! He said with his Les Paul it was the best sound he ever had live!@@chrisgmurray3622
The vibration in my bandmates amp, at a guess, was coming from the transformer, at perhaps a more sub frequency, but pushing harder, thus vibration without the whiney noise! Amazing recording amp, that molten sound was crazy, but too unreliable in that state for live performance! Driving around Osbourne Park looking for a fuse on a Sunday arvo in the nineties to get through a rehearsal, ...futility..... @@chrisgmurray3622
I just had my 4010 combo gone through, it went from just okay to a proper sounding Marshall. Transformers were good, got a new filter choke and had EL34’s put in, replacing the 6550’s, after discussing it with the tech. Electrolytics were replaced as necessary. Very quiet amp now, and the sound is just right (still a loud ass 50 watter). My main gigging amp, hell, everything amp.
Hi Jason :) I preffer the sound of the MAV, less wolly in the low end, more definiton and bite, if maybe a little buzzy in the top end. But I prefer a VH/90's metal tone. Im listening on a killer sounding $3KAU budget audiophile rig, not an iphone. Can the Merury be dialed in closer with the Tone controls?
Mercury was a bit more open, blended well between the notes, imagine it has a good ‘feel’.
The stock setup had accentuated attack, but choked off the mids a bit earlier when strumming. (All this based off iPhone speakers)
The Mercury magnetics sound fuller with more sparkle, richer harmonics. Its a shame! At that price they should give at the very least top quality PT's. 🤘
I purchased a brand new JCM800 head only a month ago or so as they retail for over $4k and are supposed to be a reissue , I didn’t care where the transformers were made as long as they were equal quality as the previous English made transformers were , they are not , they are crap , and Neil Wright from Electric Factory basically called my tech an idiot, And wanted to argue the point with me, instead of coming up with a solution, I sent him your last video, well that shut him up.
So I’ve been trying to get some Mercury Magnetics for a month or so now via Dave Hill over there . He must be a busy man ;)
You don’t happen to have any do you I could purchase, or know locally (Australia) where I could get any do you ?
And thanks for the video.
I have been playing Marshall now on 40 years .
Good job Jason. To my ears, using flat headphones, I can only hear minor splitting hair differences.
Tone-wise they both sound about he same, given your setup.
I guess a bit more voltage headroom with the Mercury transformers but I wouldn't have guessed it if you hadn't mention it.
Nothing's wrong with the stock ones except for the metal thickness of the bell and perhaps overall construction and quality.
I don't think Mercury transformers' make a difference at least in this case, given their astronomical prices.
What I would like to hear as a fair test is OTs only, using stock PT and choke.
Jason, is the sound coming from the MAV transformer amplified through the speakers? Or is it mechanical/acoustic?
Thanks!
I'm listening to this on pretty decent studio monitors and I can only hear a very slight difference between the two. I think they both sound great. The Mercury Mag was a little thicker, a littler rounder. But you can hear a bigger difference between new strings and strings that have been played for an hour.
Great video, appreciate your effort on this. am grateful I stumbled across this because I was just about to buy a new 1959 AND JCM 800 for my recording studio. but now I'm not! guess I'll get that new slash magnatone rig as marshall is no longer a consideration for me.
It’s 10k. Which is asinine
@@vadenk4433 Getting mine for $5500 US....just the head.
To compliment the test, is it possible to hook the amp up to a device or software i.e. something similar to an engine dyno and compare changes?
Cool comparison! Voltages in the older JMP 2203's were that low and lower, and nobody complains about a '79 JMP! Some even say the lower plate voltages produce a sweeter tone. Thing I hate is how cheaply the new ones are made. Wonder how the older 2203X's sound with their Drakes?
Mercury for sure - but with out a variac - I get 237VAC to 246VAC average 242VAC from the wall - so would the MAV values sound better there (242VAC)? & what will the Mercury do at 242VAC? sound even better? Probably. Did you happen to record the 240VAC figures Jason? (like your chart at 2:46- Plate Screen PI V1 V2). Is that why Marshall spec'd it that way for Australia?
Mercuriy is darker in some applications which is a drawback in some cases like lopen chords and riffs, but help in higher string lead work. Besides I don’t hear anything what cannot be achieved with either one wit some tobestack changes. Wonder if hammond or hayboer makes a difference. Maybe an alta teansformer set? Anyways thank you Jason. I was never a MM fan, I think they are overpriced and too dark sounding, but taste is an individual thing, whatever rocks your boat.
I liked the Marshall transformers better, the sound was a bit clearer but its a quite marginal difference and you would never hear the difference in a band setting even in a studio recording. I first actually got the names mixed up and thought, hmm the other non Marshall does indeed sound a little better to discover later that it was actually the original Marshall that i thought sounded better so that was a bit funny that i actually unintentionally fooled myself. Sound is subjective though and in a double blind test i think that it would be pretty much impossible to make out what is what if you play a recording where they were alternated between at random places without telling. That ringing is very bad though, surpricing problem.
It's difficult hearing the subtleties on youtube, however, the Mercury seemed to be fuller. My question is, how did they feel under your fingers? Was there a difference that we can't detect simply by just listening?
I've listened on phone speaker, car stereo, and BT earbuds. I'm primarily interested in the Les Paul segments. Very little difference. Maybe a little extra low end drone with the Mercury.
Could be a question of how long the OT will last under normal use vs what the sound might be
Seems a big difference but as someone has already said it could be the different voltages. I would have liked to see a four way test so you can hear the different OTs with the same Power Transformer.
Those are some pretty significant voltage differences. Is this now a Marshall 90?
Great vid jason, Merc did sound better i believe this is the voltages being higher affecting this , difference
Half asleep listening on an iPhone, struggling to hear any difference I will try listening again tomorrow on the iMac
How about the feeling under the fingers? Not judging by the looper sound, but playing the amp "live" before and after the change, which one felt better under the fingers?
No discernible difference
It is all about voltages and wrong labels on the MAV trafo that not corresponds to the rotary switch on the back of the amp.
I made these measurements on my 2203x with MAV transformers - that by the way sounds fantastic when the voltages and BIAS are set as right as possible:
110v setting on amp = 125v in trafo
220v setting on amp = 225v in trafo
230v setting on amp = 245v in trafo
In my area which is 230v EU
plate voltage on 230v (245v trafo) setting = 417v => filament voltage = 5.9v
plate voltage on 220v (225v trafo) setting = 457v => filament voltage = 6.36v
So at 220 volt setting I get 457 volts on the plate which I consider within the preferred range. My 77 JMP 2203 is 454-ish.
IF you want to talk about Marshall trafo-quality I think that the right answer must be, that you should find one that is pre-JCM900 to get a decent one.
My ears aren't what they used to be thanks to standing in front of 100W full and half stacks for many years on the regional club circuit back in the day...
...they sound close enough to each other, listening on my nearfield monitors, but I'd have to play / hear them myself or be in the room myself, to know for sure.
Two things I do know, 1) that high pitched hum / whistle would drive me crazy and I'd return the amp asap; 2) the MAV cheaper construction would be a concern for longevity and reliability.
What about a shootout of OT's! Mercury makes other desirable ones like Radiospares. I swapped a '66 blackface bassman OT with an Altec Lansing Peerless. The results were ....yeah i dug the Peerless more! But to be fair, they are just different tone wise, but both sounded great imho. But construction means a lot.....hot transformers can't keep the tone going right?!
How about a blind test next time and reveal in a follow up video. People mostly decide on what they see and not what they hear! 😉
I like to ignore the sub titles first run through - once I decide what I like I then replay and read - also suggest using quality headphones if you can
Agreed, even if the performer knows which transformers are in there it's not a true A/B test.
I always "watch" with my eyes closed a couple of times, then I go back and watch again to try and avoid that very thing
Yeah, that's not gonna happen. People have been saying this for 30+ years, but not even the most seasoned musician seems to want to take that ear test. Everyone on the internet has super sonic hearing until they don't. 🤣
Marshall has relentlessly pursued a cut cost/maximize profit program since the day they opened for business. If there's a way to squeeze the customer harder, give him less for more money, they'll do it!
The Mercury transformers. Beefier low end and much less strident top end and upper mids. Made it roar like a good old 2203 should. The difference is pretty noticeable using good speakers and I can imagine it was even more so in the room. For what Marshall is charging for these amps now, this is absolutely the caliber of transformer that it should come with!
Hey Jason I get two choices for the vishays roderstein 400 volt coupling caps....axial encased and just axial.....which is better....or which do you use....this is at mouser
Post the part numbers and I’ll have a look
@@HeadfirstAmps MKT1813322405G
This says axial encased. MKT1813322405
This one doesn't......I don't know which ones I should get
@@HeadfirstAmps MKT1813322405G
This one says axial encased
MKT1813322405
This one doesn't.....which should I get
Heart breaking but no surprise there
I have two 1959HWs here. One 2022 with Dagnalls and a 2023 with the Vietnams. They both sound pretty good until you get past noon on the volume. The MIV amp has a high end white noise component to the sound. It isn't consistent and it's pretty annoying. The difference is quite a bit more than you can hear in this video. The plate voltage on the MIV is 464 BTW.
MM has more "teeth"...MIV is more lay down with more sag...due to less plate voltage I guess...
Correct me if I am wrong, the amp with the MIV trans is quieter?
I liked the mercury. Seemed to have more punch. But the real question is, how does it feel? How's the response?
Good question mate....
Listening on some headphones the difference is too small to worry about. In a band, especially with two guitars you’ll never know. Any slight differences in the top end could be a presence adjustment away from being the same. I would change the PT or modify the bell end if possible no matter what. That level mechanical noise is unacceptable. Whether the OT will run smooth for extended periods at volume? Remains to be seen. Considering Marshall wants $3500 plus in the U.S. it’s a complete joke.
I couldn’t hear the difference until the parts were separated.
I don’t know why but the strat irritated me on the stock transformer
Where the Les paul made not much difference.
So it makes me wonder if the mercury has a smoother top end
The Mercury sounded MUCH better to me because of the fuller sound, harmonics, etc. The MIV sounded thin and brittle. I would be curious which one sounded better in a mix because sometimes a thinner sound works better in a mix.
I prefer the brightness of the MAV
The Mercury plate voltage is still low, isn't it?
Gidday mates , i believe in alchelmy regarding music , lifes a gamble listening to others opions.cheers 🤘🍻
Jason, those voltages on MAV seem a bit low. I've never measured a new Marshall with such a low HT - very weird. Were tubes drawing same current in both tests? Looks like the ringing is a bit of cost saving on end bell material and tooling - thinner material = easier on press tools. I'd be more interested in the core material, wire and winding arrangement. To me they didn't sound hugely different - could also be due to different voltages. I probably would have Variaced the MAV up slightly closer to MM voltages to see if that was responsible for any tone change.
Could have variaced it up, but then the heaters would be out of spec.
@@HeadfirstAmps Yes, It gets tricky, but highlights one thing, best to change one component at a time to limit variables. Changing just OP traffos first would have been ideal. Same for power traffos- use same OPT. It is time consuming and you can still chase your tail.
I like the MAV a little better, it has more bite! I would replace the PT for a mercury magnetic and keep the Marshall OT.
Mercury all day!!!
There is a slight difference for sure.. But nothing that you can't offset with a slight change of values in the circuit in my opinion.. And this is probably not worth changing the transformers except for this annoying ringing noise issue...
I like the MAV`s better :-) they sound more open to me - ist time to compare to Dagnall transformers ;-)
mercury definitely thicker, creamier. pretty disappointed with some big name brands. no wonder pro's are moving away to friedman etc. your amps are getting noticed, which is great to see Aussie guys doing such a great job.
The thing is I’m in England ( 20 mins from Bletchley ) and the price of a 2203x here is around £1600 new . How much more would it put on the price if it came with MM transformers stock , a lot i suspect . So how much would a 2203x then cost in say the states and Australia ? Not that I understand why anyone in the states would buy a Marshall over a Friedman in the first place .
I was expecting a big difference in sound! About voltages, I love amps starving (almost like a variac), and that alone is enough for the change in sound! conlusion, for the price difference I would change the transformes! As dave Friedman says, on notch on the right know and they probably sound similar!
The Mercury is definitely rounder and smoother. Much more appeasing to the ears.
I am pretty sure it would be possible to get high quality, great sounding transformers made in the far east if you are willing to invest what it takes. If the Marshall ones are sub par, then it's on Marshall for not finding a producer that can do the work and the making sure the QA and specs are right etc.
Some guitar related examples of quality stuff made in that part of the world are my Audient iD24 interface, my Friedman IR-X preamp, and my old Laney IRT that I thrashed for four years trouble free. All made in the far east and great. Come on Marshall. You are letting the team down (I am a NZ'er by birth, but grew up in Milton Keynes where Marshall are based).
Agree, it’s got nothing to do with where they are made. It’s only about quality. Same applies to everything.
It kind of hurts huh? An iconic amp brand that should've been the benchmark other brands are measured against to see if they stack up as well 🤣
They sounded near as dammit iddentical to me. Ironically I have a boutique Marshall style amp with Mercury transformers from new and the mains TX hums/vibrates a little at mains frequency - I did try tightening the lamination bolts. Not that I care, you can't hear it when rocking hahaha
"...man that's irritating" Yes, yes it is. Marshall's QC is non-existent these days. Can I say that I wasn't super stoked on either for a 2203 vibe? The MAV had a better top end sizzle but got harsh. The Mercs, as usual, had a high end sizzle kill.
Stock sounds thin and harsh... Like a DSL 😅 .... Regardless they shouldn't be putting cheap parts in an 800 considering the price they are. It's not cool... But I guess that's what will become of IKEAMarshall .... On a side note... Do you sell those t shirts ?? I do believe I need one 😁
On my end the tonal differences are not big enough for me to care. I could imagine though that the differences in voltage could affect the feel of the amp a bit, meaning how it responds.
But man... I'd want the Mercury transformers just to get rid of the ring. That'd drive me nuts! That's not accepatable for an amp in that price range imo
Thank you for the test.. No surprises here... Mercury sounds just better. But for me the difference isn't worth 800$ . This amp should cost about 1700€ (thomann) in Europe.
How about comparing the stock TL072 FX loop and your LND150 (metro?) loop in a similar manner? I hate the design of those loops with the big dropping resistor and already ripped of a stock loop and installed a high voltage IRF820/LND150 loop without really comparing them...
I was checking on my phone out of curiosity, and even on that small speaker I could instantly hear it. For how much Marshall charges for these (in America at least), this is unacceptable.
Crucify me, but i prefer the sound with MAV trafos. And, in a band/mix situation with HP filter, i doubt i can hear the difference.
Slightly rounder …Slightly fuller with the MMs to my ear …but… in a mix with other instruments I would be hard pressed to notice a meaningful difference here. I’m listening on small studio monitors .
yeah, with eyes closed I can`t figure out where the cuts are...
I bet in the room with a real cab you could tell the difference!
I honestly couldn't distinguish between the two if I were to go by hearing alone and I listened to this on a pair of Sennheiser HD600 with a headphone amp.
Mercury sounded with a little more bass, but not enough to justify the swap, the ringing can be fixed with filling the transformer with wax, the MAV tranformers come from factory with the end caps removed and not wax potted, I doubt Marshall wax potts these transformers in the factory.
Other aspect about voltage, new marshalls come with lower voltage output to be "more reliable", Marshalls are known to be.... not very reliable, blown power tubes, blown caps and damaged boards due to heat, the lower voltage ensures a little more reliability in the long run and at full volume.
That makes the amps cheaper to manufacture, cheaper to repair nad less prone to failure, sad they had to go this way to be "more reliable", sacrificing quality and tone....
Well going through the comments, pretty obvious that the MAVs sound just fine, most couldn't hear any real difference ( myself included, on pair of Neumann KH80 ), if there was a difference you could match it with a little tone tweak. Yeah its a pity its no longer Dagnall from a tradition pov, but the MAVs sound great.
if you do the math, the vast majority of comments prefer the Mercury
@@megatoneamps I really don't know about the 'vast majority' claim there, but I bet if this was a blind test 99% wouldn't have known which was which. Preconceptions just destroy any objective comparison. I find the same about boutique pickups, most differences are just a small quick eq tweak or PU adjustment ( unless one PU is total a pos ). Throw any of this into a gig setting and any perceived differences go out the window, but maybe I've just played guitar waaaay too loud for waaaay too many years and can't hear shit. Again I would rather have a Dagnall in my Marshall, just because thats how they've always been, which is a silly reason, but would I have known if Jason hadn't done this video ? Definitely not
probably going against the grain here but on that sound test I liked the MAV a bit better .. thin and bright is in my wheel house haha