Breaking Down the GC After the Time Trial | Tour de France 2024 Stage 7 | JB2
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Johan breaks down the top guys and their ITT performance. He also revisits the team vs. organization-issued skin suits which may have affected Tadej Pogacar and Remco Evenepoel as they were in the Leader and Youngest Riders Jerseys.
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The talk is about how Remco has changed physically, but from the interviews I've seen, the young man has matured a lot in the last year.
I think he learned lot about himself in last year Vuelta. He went on some breakaways that were amazing after his time loss. Remco is an amazing athlete who has the potential to win more than one Tour in the future.
correct - have not seen the cockiness from 2023
Don’t forget the pressure, expectations and dreams of the Belgian people.
This is nothing that we haven't seen yet. We know he can dominate flat TTs. The question has always been week 3 in the high constant mountain stages
Every minute of every one of these JB2 podcasts are packed with gems. Thank you, gentlemen. 🙏
7 stages, 7 different winners. It's been an exciting and excellent Tour thus far.
This is the most informative podcast on the Tour, thank you for the great questions and for making all of your knowledge so accessible!
Adam Yates said he sacrificed early on Galibier because Ayuso was not in place...
unlikely he would say that.
@@Nyelandsbut he did
Love your commentary! ❤ Johan may call himself a geek, but he's a genius, hands down! Thank you for sharing your talent with us every year at the Tour de France! 😊
As as Slovenian i can confirm story around Pogacar and Hauptman as director. Very good guy and very good ex cyclist ❤
The UAE is missing rafael majka! He's tadej's first lieutenant!
Well done gents. The best show of analysis and context. Keep it up!
Thanks again JBs Great show. As always very interesting and educational. Johan deserves wider exposure to reach more bike racing fans.
Love the show, thank you! Man, I’d love to hear Johan discuss the stages live. I love Phil and Bob, but Johan’s insights are so good!
He has frineds in the cycling peloton that give him insights, will always be ahead of the comentators. JB is great
These two along with George Hincapie and TheCyclingDane are the best. The pro peloton is packed with great young talent so the sport has an exciting present and future.
Dont forget about my man, Chris Horner.
@@nichelasgarcia2676 If only he would speak a little more calmly. I get stressed listening to him just 5 minutes
@@nichelasgarcia2676 Oh yes, Horner does a great job too.
Thanks For a great show❤❤❤❤🇩🇰
Gentleman, thank you for the insight. Johan, looking forward to seeing your results on the two devices. I also add one other device to manage my ride, my smile.
Team Bus Dynamics. Such an interesting topic and I really enjoy when Johan speculates as to what ‘could’ really be going on. That said, I would love it if Johan could share a few stories from the Astana days when he was dealing with both Alberto ‘El Pistolero’ Contador and Lance. I’m sure the bus was not big enough.
Fully agree that while Jonas typically gets stronger as a three week race unfolds but given his recent severe injury it is possible he fades in the third week
Looking forward to the Garmin & Wahoo comparison!
730 calories for Remco in ITT 729 calories for Pogi.
Remco lighter and most experts would say slightly more aero than Tadej…. So not entirely sure the Strava algorithm is correct. It’s exacerbating the efficiency of Pogacar. He should have put out more than Remco today…,
This is quality chat
Litespeed Blade, re-badged as a Trek in the 1999 Tour. Is the answer to the one trick question at the end.
I like this show. Johann knows modern cycling unlike Lance who is clueless and adds zero insight when he talks.
Today's TT calorie burn is identical for both Tadej and Remco. It is also pretty close to Campenaerts, all in the 730 calorie range. So I don't think there is too much of a difference.
And you are thinking you are making a point HOW exactly? Makes perfect sense that in a TT all would be very similar in calorie expenditure.
They were discussing differences between two different comps. Would be nice to understand the context before taunting a total stranger.
You'd need to know that actual power & hr to get a somewhat accurate kj estimation
Why would Jorgenson give it his all in the TT, when he should have saved energy for his duties in the mountains for Jonas?
The calorie data is almost meaningless since they all hide power data. Its stravas algo calculating it not garmin or wahoo.
I’m not sure if there isn’t 5 riders with a better career than Remco has so far. Tadej and Cavendish are definitely ahead. Since Sagan hasn’t technically retired yet you have to put him above Remco as well. And then there are arguments for Van Der Poel, Alaphillipe and Wout. I’d probably put him 6th as of now ahead of Wout. Next year when Sagan and Cav are gone he will be top 5 for sure.
3 of the 4 are still riding themselves into top form
Only Já Ulrich really improved during the tour because he clearly showed up fat many times. Vingard isnt fat. He will not get better
He will exausted from not being at 100%
Litespeed Blade (re -branded as Trek)!
Congrats for your show, you guys give the important issues and stuff that really matters, one question for Johan Bruynel ,the performance of Nils Pollit in the ITT was very good, now due to the work he must do in the next 2 days why he tried so hard to make a good ITT ,when he should had a day without to much effort?
Hey i am not Johan, but i was thinking about the same question. Not only about Nils, but also van Wilder for instance. I think the following: 1.) A TT effort is relativley short and the resulting level of fatigue is not the same as on a long mountain stage. 2.) Depending on the rider it might make more sense to keep going on efforts to keep the body in the state of performance. Thats why some riders actually dread the rest days, since they fear their bodies shut down and will struggle to re-activate the next day. We have seen this many times in mountain stages after a rest day, where some just struggle to get back in this performance state. When i have a big event, i will do some very short but intense efforts the day before to give the body a wake up call.
But i'd like to hear Johans opinion about that too! 😉
The Hawthorne experiment, showed that the mere prodding around added to the placebo effect. Someone was present talking about improving and the ladies performed better in the factory.
Here the cyclists are testing this and that while they put in the hours. If they put in more and better hours because they want to live up to the gear potential you get better results up to the ultimate bodily fluids of each rider:
VO2-max x power x heart rate x placebo/hawthorne x gear efficiency x team efficiency x context efficiency*
* Vingegaard using UAE as help riders, Pogacar on low power in the middle the peloton.
What changed JB´s assessment of Remco´s chances? His TT win was a given , so why raise expectations?
Any chance there may be in the works, some JB2 T’s with some words of wisdom from the man Johan??
Keep this happening JB… we need your fix each stage bro.
Remco needs to prove himself in the mountains. Period. If he can do that I’ll start believing. If he shows improvement in this Tour he will make a believer in me.
How lucky Remco is that he could prove himself to you 😂
Surely the devices calculate energy expenditure based on kilojoules from power data? And the equation is the same regardless of what device is used.
I can understand the possible inaccuracies from using HR
how many more victories he could have had w/o his big injuries
Yonas wasn't doin great before the crash he took like 5th in a time trial I think he won like one race he only prepares for the tour the rest of his season is never special compared to pogi
@@markmartin4793 referring to remco
Anyone notice all the JB's painted on the road today? it was greater than JB squared it was JB100
Was for Julien Bernard (the rider who stopped and kissed his wife) I believe.
Anyone feel the body produces more of something in recovering that could explain Jonas's performance.
From now on, we should official stop asking about Jonas form. After 7 stages, he was clearly doing just fine. If Jonas ended winning TDF, VL will be hailed as the Genius because they can resurrect a rider from the dead 🤣🤣. LOL. But for some reason, I'm just waiting until the shoes drop. Either on Pogacar due to Giro fatique or Jonas due to lack of proper preparation. Which makes the 3rd week exciting! 🔥🔥
As far as UAE, they don't have a guy who can straighten them up. Nils Polit or Yates are still new riders. I think they need Majka. He has been with Tadej from the beginning. So he can smack around Ayuso to fall in line with the rest easily... LOL
Remco? Well, so far he is emerging to be the contender after those two. But we shall see. Back to back multi high mountain stages week 3, that's his achilles heels. And Rogilc? yeah, I don't think he can complete his palmares. He is lucky if he can reach podium. Rumors said, that JV has been protecting Roglic from dropping the 1kg of his weight (Roglic always wants to drop a kilo). Looks like at Bora, he managed to do that. He looks super skinny now. Maybe that's why he is lacking? Loosing weight doesn't always mean you ride better either. It's funny, to see these three, then seeing Roglic .. he is now occupies the place of "Geraint Thomas." Can't challenge them, but he is there, there about.🤣🤣
Johan when you do your test you should also wear something like an Apple Watch. You’ll be surprised by the differences between all the algorithms.
Did Tadej wear a UAE or ASO suit for the TT?
ASO they said on TV yesterday. Same as Remco.
Hi, is it OK to ask a question for this excellent show for tomorrow? How many riders usually go for GC each year? 30? 40? Is everyone else domestiques / sprinters / classic style riders that go for stage wins? Thanks (Steve, UK) You said that 20% of riders go for the TT. I guess that's the answer?
Remco had a 62 in front.
I’m so glad someone mentioned EF. I was watching at work so I thought at first I was just seeing the same breakaway. Because it couldn’t be possible a team is chasing down their own break. But they actually did it. This team is pointless and only gets attention from shitty nbc coverage because they have an American rider and American ds. On vaughters by the way, i don’t know the guy personally so I can’t speak to it like Johan but comes off as a pretentious douche every time I hear him speak.
How many wins does remco outside of the TT?,, he will drop off in the mountains with roglic,,, remco never wins the tour as long as pogie and Jonas are still around,,,
I wonder if Remco is on ketones???
come on Johan the only guy not doing his job is Ayuso, Almeida is doing the job and will do it until the end. Yates was asked why he had to pull sooner, he said that someone was missing.....Matxin when asked the same said that Yates had blown up.....what a shit show!
Ayuso has done it before in other races...
Exactly
Ayuso is not playing the game... he is not here for HIS position... he is there for the LEADER... agreed. Almeida is doing his job
@@fredanaude9491 if he was here for the leader what is he doing at the back end of the peloton when Almeida and Yates are facing the wind?! Lets not fool ourselves.
Why Yates said that he had to work earlier because someone was missing? Ayuso was doing his race not caring for the team or the leader...and it's not the first time that he has done this.
Johan, what is your take on Jonas’ post TT interview when he was asked if his fitness level is increasing as the TDF progresses.
that was sacrasm , its why jonas looked aggravated. Everyone gets weaker until after tour you need multiple recovery days to getthe benefits from tour effort. Its why everyone doing olympics does tour first. Its also why you dont really rest during rest day there is no true recovery involved in tour your body actually will stiffen up afterthat kind of riding if youi dont keep riding. Its why the base training is so important like tadej last year ran on empty into week 3 and why jonas has raw strength but not after the long efforts of endurance.
JUmbo does more political answers in press than anyone Wout too has the strength bu not that deep enduranceas you saw with wout. Jonas could prove me wrong but he should have hand full trying to beat primoz and remco because he didnt race dauphine and usually has perfect preperation and deep team who never leaves him isolated. Kuss on climbs, wout, laporte on rolling hills, tiej, wilco on ealry climbs hes never in the wind they have shephered him through last two tours at an incredible level. This tour has diferent parcours tadej could distance GCon gravel stage for example and this year has had best preparation. The idea of getting better week 3 if you had interrupted training is a myth. Its never happened like that in the tour evryone can have a great day but a great 3rd week over guys with prepared calendar to peak in july..thats the goal
He certainly will be flying at close to 100% come vuelta im impressed he took the start but i understand with season and new sponsor he is under pressure. Hes a tough sob
@@ryanphelan6861well said. People need to cut the “grow into the race” stuff
@ryanphelan6861 agreed.. you cannot believe what Visma or Jonas say... it's never the truth.
@@ryanphelan6861 Interesting take. BTW, Jonas is not racing in the Vuelta this year. Too bad, the route is perfect for him. His wife is giving birth to their second child.
Remco is only about a year younger than Pogacar. Pog has WON 3 Grand Tours and 6 Monuments. Seems silly to talk about Remco. He just one more star eclipsed by the sun.
I believe Remco has won 53 races.
@@mariafargeorge1202vs Pogocar at 78. Will be another good rivalry to watch!
He lost close to a year due to his fall in Lombardia and already won all possible jerseys befire he was 24... Pog is the better climber and handles the the bike better. Remco is the better tt rider and fastest flat rider.
I agree with you! And Jonas is a year older than Pogacar! Remco was born at the wrong time!
That is such a stupid comparison🤷♂️
Remco was disappointed to see that Pogačar was only 12 seconds behind, nevertheless, he drove another great TT. He has an advantage over the others because he is aerodynamic on the bike, he figured out how to ride a bike with the head in a low position. Pog position on TT bike is great 1/3 of the time, the rest of the time was too open, aerodynamics is everything on TT!
Jonas is at the same level as last year, Pogačar is on the higher level this is where the difference comes from, but this time Pog will not collapse in last week, Jonas should not count on that.
Roglič was on 110% today, he is not at the top yet but he is coming, I see him in second place in Nice!
The helmet is not a key, the head position is the key! The helmet of Remco it's like a brick and he is still the most aerodynamic of them all. Pog has stronger and faster legs than him, well balanced on the bike, stable, elegant, but he is still behind him. It's amazing how the most obvious thing is invisible to experts, if the front part of the racing car is lowered to the ground, then the bike rider's head and hands must also be as low as possible. Now the experts will say, how rider should see where he is riding if he has his head between his hands? The answer is with the help of a mirror! Developers are wandering in the fog, chasing their own tails because they don't know how to set the problem in a right way. The position of the hands and head together with the helmet must become one in the lowest possible position, that is the starting point, and during the course of the ride it is necessary to hold this position as long as possible, simple. Once you set the starting point, it is necessary to ask yourself how to solve the problems that arise. In this case the only problem is that the rider does not have a forward view to know where he is riding, so the simplest solution to this problem is to use the mirror mounted on bike or inside the helmet. The mirror is positioned 10 cm from the eyes and inclined in a way that you can see the road in front while looking backwards with your eyes! As I can see, the best helmet for this application is the helmet Ben Healy is using. He was fast today as long as the legs could last, and very aerodynamic with head aligned with the hands.
For fraudsters who would like to patent this solution is to late, with this publication the solution is public and free for anyone to use. To expand the solution I can mention that mirror can be replaced with display, micro controller and camera electronic system, mouted inside the helmet or mounted on the bike. The only question is how the commission will react, and with what argument :)
Se you in the douches
Thanks for your interesting thoughts, very innovative. Keeping position is key but not easy under fatigue. In fact, Rolf Aldag reminded Primoz to lower his head late in the TT via radio (just to amplify what you said). The design philosophy is no longer based on the question if the helmet is aero but the system of helmet and rider is aero. But you have to make compromises in order to make the helmet work for all riders. I mean look at the shoulder width from Jonas and Wout for instance. Perhaps the next level would be customizing the helmet towards individual riders, like they do with the molded TT bars. Easier said than done though, since it is also a safety critical component that needs certification. Also traditional injection molding would be extremely expensive making a tool for one rider. Maybe an innner core module with an outer custom shell would be an approach. Just juggling ideas here too.😉 Greetings from Germany
Agree that Pogacar is on another level this year - AND he did the Giro.. where Jonas had the injury.. cannot be compared - but people seem to forget Pocagar already did a grand tour little more than a month ago...
@@headofmyself5663 1. keeping position low does not mean that fatigue is increased, nothing change in the lower body motility. The fatigue increase when you are in lower position with the head up to see where you are riding, with the head down the fatigue is released, try it, I did it looong time ago! It is a safe technique and at any time you can look up to see if you are still on planet earth😂
2. one more time, the helmet alone is not a key, it's the position of the head, hands and helmet together, that's the only thing that still remains to increase aerodynamic performance of the rider significantly! So the helmet can easily be made in series not in custom made process. If the head is separated from hands and lifted up, than the helmet of Jonas is the best, if head is aligned with hands, the helmet of Healy is better!
3. If you like custom made helmet 3D print is the way to go, you can print carbon continuous fiber for the same price as you will pay for the helmet professionals use. There are Chinese companies that are using this carbon continuous fiber technology to 3D print entire bike frame of a racing bike, so the certification is not a problem at all!
So technology and price is not a limitation, the limitation is to see the obvious, that is why inventors are so rare🙃. Thanks for mentioning the Bora radio communication between Aldag and Primož. The second part of TT, Primož was faster than Remco if I am not wrong, at least the same fast, this just confirms what I already mentioned in my previous post on this channel, that the only difference between Roglič and Remco TT performance is that Roglič has his head 10-15 cm higher positioned during TT than Remco. If Pog could have stayed in an optimal position for more than 1/3 of the race, he would have won the TT yesterday! Greetings from Slovenia 😉
czcams.com/video/coU6QiQde18/video.html
czcams.com/video/RitLomA91G8/video.html
@@fredanaude9491 Pog did the Giro like a tourist, and data of energy consumption that JB showed in previous podcast confirm that he is riding TDF like a tourist also!
I see many people forgetting the hype about Remco when they are saying "oh, what a great career, meeting the expectations etc."
I clearly remember that it was close to consensus that he was the greatest talent of all the riders, Pogacar included. I remember people saying: "Pogacar is great, but Remco is a level above."
And now all this walking back...
True, about 2 years ago they were saying this lol.
To be fair, since those early prognostications, Remco has had some horrendous crashes that could have cost him his career, or perhaps even his life, but in any case they certainly slowed his development. In his young career he has already overcome a lot in order to achieve a lot…
8th
"I Expect to lose more time" after evary stage
Look at the stage profiles. You think Jonas could match Pog and Remco in a Week 1 near flat TT? In a punchy hilly rolling Stage 3? In Stage 7 with a downhill non technical finish? Yeah, I expected Jonas to be 3-4 minutes back after Week 1. It's Week 2-3 climbing stages where it gets to his terrain
It's Tour de France (short "e" in de) and not Tour des France (pronounced "day"). Stop the Bob Roll impersonations.
Everyone is on about a laying flat in a hospital for 12 days level 🤣🤣 How am i the only one who's seen enough already again?!
Not me
I don't believe he was in bed for 12 days they tell you what they want you to think
@@markmartin4793 So tell us why you don't believe that. Enlighten us with your insights.
@@Nyelandsive been around d1 sports and pro sports they never tell the public whats really goin on its big money involved lots of dirt and deceiving
Exactly!!! Visma and Jonas... if they tell you it's a sunny day - go outside and check... difference between protecting info and flat out lying..
Lance didn't win anything
Sensational ride from Remco and I think we can definitely see the Giro reflected in Pogacar's legs...
That said, his MJ defense was stellar and eliminating Remco in the high mountains will be priority 1AA for UAE, because he is faaar too dangerous to be in the MJ mix in Nice.
And then there was Jonas Vingegaard.
This man crashed in Spain on April 4, fracturing ribs, a collarbone and blowing a hole in his lung.
Jonas was FLAT ON HIS BACK for 12 DAYS until April 16...
Then Jonas had 21 MORE DAYS of gentle and calmly progressive indoor training and physio work and not permitted to ride outdoors until May 7th...
And since he had to ease his way back into his normal training cadence, he probably was not back to full, World Tour professional training loads until say June 1... Which is super aggressive for a man coming back from an ICU stay and a popped lung...
And here he is, 4-5 weeks later on July 5th losing 37 seconds to the current TT (and former RR) World Champ who is on MONSTER form...
Say what you want about Remco, but that man sacrificed his national champs to train at altitude and has been focused on this stage for MONTHS and was training at the HIGHEST PROFESSIONAL LEVEL the entire time Jonas was injured...
So Visma wants me to believe that Jonas can take a month **completely off the bike** and STILL be top 4 in a rolling non-mountain, high stakes TdF time trial after 4-6 weeks of training????
Meanwhile, last year Tadej misses what? 10 days of outdoor training time from his wrist injury, races a magnificent TT and Jonas smoked him by over a Minute...
How stupid does Visma think we are???
There are only two options to describe this...
Either Jonas has the ability to recover from life-threatening physical injury like Deadpool or Wolverine, giving him a capacity that we have never seen before in the history of cycling....
Or this is exactly what we have seen time and again in cycling. Visma is using some combination of TUEs, loopholes, grey areas, dicey rule application or some super sexy, super secret new-new-NEW performance enhancers...
There is no other possible way that Jonas can make up for make up for 30-45+ days of LOST high level, professional grade racing and training from serious injury to be ready for the TdF...
Last years TT from Jonas was questionable at best. This display is a complete joke...
I applaud Visma for their ability to find ways to make Jonas perform at this level so quickly after such a devastating injury...
I however do not believe ANYTHING That Jonas does in this race is legit... *It is entirely likely that He is on something that the others are not...*
This absolutely ridiculous TT performance by Jonas speaks for itself...
Let me guess...Pogi fan? 🤣
Jonas is the greatest GC rider of all time. There, that's all. Even a degraded Jonas can perform at this level
You are right. Before 2020 they put everything in their leader Roglic to improve him year by year. After lost Tour in 2020 they changed their strategy and they made Vingegaard the best cyclist in only 7 months! Jonas was already 2 years in Visma and he did nothing, then he made magic in 7 months time! They ve found something
Remco was injured in the same stage as Jonas. True, the injury of Jonas was of another level, but the TDF preparation of Remco was far from ideal as well.
Thanks again JBs Great show. As always very interesting and educational. Johan deserves wider exposure to reach more bike racing fans.