Explaining Why Smash Ultimate Sucks
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2024
- Check out my video talking about Why Smash Ultimate is amazing game here: • Why Smash Ultimate Is ...
In today's video I talk about Smash Ultimate's flaws as a game and why someone might think the game sucks. As someone who plays and makes content for this game for a living I obviously love the game, but there are some things I absolutely hate.
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How many people do you think are gonna comment without actually watching the video
Me
A number of people.
12
I am one of these
How many people, are "people" aka bots included?
Nothing infuriates me in this game any more than trying to drop off a platform and do an aerial, but instead you sit there and do a tilt or smash attack.
I got angry just reading this…
YES!!!!
so many games lost bc of this
I was great and got mad remembering this
The Nairo Special.
Bro the input delay and online is the number one reason real talk. If u play litterally any other fighting game online and then play smash, the difference is gag inducing. Easily the most garbage online experience I have ever had playing any game and I played warzone during covid.
Fr, played SF6, was shock how good the movement was
This. Exactly
1. Stopped balancing the game before all DLC was released
2. Input delay
I didn’t realize that ult had 6 frames of input delay. That, and training mode being entirely impractical for actual practice is what made me quit playing competitively. I felt like I couldn’t improve to a point where it was worth spending time and money going to locals. I’m not surprised that they wouldn’t include DI for training mode, but the fact that you can’t set the CPU’s spawn location or USE TRAINING MODE ON HAZARDS OFF STAGES is unforgivable imo. Why does the training mode stage have a battlefield portion if I can’t have the CPU spawn there?
They have a feature that makes the CPUs do random SDI but not DI, it's so wild
Should play competitively again
No. Absolutely NO, buffs for Pac-Man. Give home back his original up B. Makes NO sense to take it away
@@cooldrop02Why does he need buffs lmao; he’s broken af
@@cooldrop02 You know what actually I think the Ult devs were onto something with this one.
Almost every character has a few key moves that have absolutely 0 endlag. Mashing often results in no punish.
Meanwhile, some characters like Ganondorf have many laggy moves
Meanwhile ganondorfs upair is his best move and autocancels on shorthop yeah so laggy
@@KAJYT6969 Yeah, some characters are over-centralized on a few really good moves
@@laffy7204 The only thing ganondorfs do is dair and upair, fair and upsmash. change my mind. The "ok" ones will jab and nair, but most shitters dont know how to do running nairs
What? You just outspace them and hit them as they are stuck doing their attack
My biggest issue is that a lot of characters feel really watered down and degenerate in exchange for so many being in the game
Not sure, but I have similar feelings.
I think i agree if you mean what i think you mean, alot of characters have recycled moves, which is bound to happen when you have nearly 90 playables, but it leaves alot of characters feeling like greater or lesser versions of eachother
Joy Cons have -2 frames of input delay. They move before you touch them
lol
I have lost count the amount of times I attempt a Dash Attack and I proceed to stand perfectly still and a Smash Attack comes out...
Ultimate is easily my least favorite Smash game. The buffer is terrible, the online is garbage, there are many characters that I used to like that are not fun in this game, the single player content isn't that great, and this game has so many safe moves which leads to mashing
1. The horrendous buffer system
2. Sticky platforms
6 frames isnt noticeable
@@Astreon123your opinion isn't noticeable
3. Degenerate players (Spammers and Teabaggers)
@@Astreon123 it absolutely is. play a game like rivals of aether and swap back to ult. instantly, you'll notice how floaty and garbage the game feels to play. you press a button and it just doesn't register for so long that your reaction time doesnt mean anything.
I swear every move is safe on block. Even if you try to counter it, they'll throw out a move or dodge it. It's horrible online because you can get punished for the delay.
I feel like the opposite is almost as true as that too. Its a strange game in the series that doesn't really play like any of the other ones and sometimes I don't think its for the better.
I hate the directional air dodge when combined with the horrible buffer system. Get shield poked, air dodge off the ledge to your death.
Ive died this way like a thousand times smh
Smash ultimate feels like it has an identity crisis. Does it wanna be more of a fighter? Story mode? All characters? Not to mention the final smashes in the game are just super moves rather than interesting and varied. Its a shame really.
Also they gutted the fuck out of mii brawler by taking away or nerfing his best moves.
It still baffles me to this day how they introduced echo fighters as a way to include characters for zero effort and then did nothing with it. Ken is the only outlier, but it’s to a point where he shouldn’t even be an echo fighter. Like with the costumes, this is literally a gold mine. Consider a character like Big Boss from Metal Gear: he looks the same as Snake, shares all of Snake’s moves, and even has the same voice actor, all they would need to change is put an eyepatch on his model and give him different colors. Insane how Nintendo goes the extra mile in some regards and is impeccably lazy in others.
You mean clone characters that have always been in the series that you all hated right? It's cute you lot want clone characters after they simply changed the title from clone to echo lol the average attention span of a smash player is less than a goldfish! Goldfish has an attention span of up to 5 months!
@@DANCERcow Don't really understand what you're trying to say. They advertised echo fighters as characters that wouldn't take up a lot of development time, so fan favorites that didn't quite make the cut as a fully fledged fighter could still make it in, but with a new echo fighter distinction, now there would be no confusion as to whether or not a clone character stole the slot of a completely unique fighter. So, why not completely cash out with the idea? They had two ported over from Smash 4, and introduced five new ones, and that's it. It's a novel idea, so I don't understand why they would introduce it pre-release and then never acknowledge it again. Nearly everyone online made speculations about an echo fighter's pass that never came to be.
And for the record, Nintendo never officially donned the name "clones" for these characters pre-Ultimate, that was a community thing. The community and Nintendo had different ideas on what a clone is anyway, seeing how Dr. Mario was considered a clone before Ultimate by the community, but not officially coined as an echo fighter.
All I'm saying is it's wasted potential. By the way, goldfish have an average attention span of 9 seconds, don't know where you got 5 months from. And yes, it is a scientific fact that humans on average have a shorter attention span than goldfish, clocking in at 8 seconds. I agree Smash players are brainless, but don't group me up with them.
Agreed. I was fully expecting an Echo Fighter Pass to happen at some point, cheaper than the full Fighter Passes we got, but it never happened.
The minimal differences between echoes and their original counterparts is also disappointing. It would have been so easy to slightly tweak some parameters to make them a bit more unique without much effort.
@@DANCERcowWhat the hell are you talking about? You don't know yourself
Great Great point.
I quit when Nintendo added 5 unfun broken characters
I love when DLC ruins another smash game
After me and a buddy played Smash 4 for tons of hours since the 3ds release
Day 1 Ultimate was incredibly rough with the input lag. The arenas are garbage. You lost spot in line for any little change you wanna make
The last reason single-handedly makes my love for arenas vanish
That 2nd to last reason is why I just go with random characters.
Why do I feel like teching after being hit is practically useless
It is against most characters
OH THAT'S TRUE, I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT THAT
@jonnyc3905 like you are are a free hit of you tech since there's hardly any invincibility frame if any
@@CardiacYew-xt5zq Facts, and it doesn't help that some characters are literally fast enough to punish you for neutral teching. Some clearly benefit more than others, but characters with strong advantage states also can punish you for neutral teching...at least in my experience lol (pythra, falcon, diddy, sonic, etc.). That's kinda why I like mixing up how I tech. I'll either tech roll in, out, or neutral tech once I feel like I've mixed up my opponent. I'll even roll out away from center since teching in can be such a predictable option sometimes. Ofc, all of this is easier said than done, especially online 😅
This isn’t true at all. Teching puts you into a tech chase, which IS bad, but not teching guarantees a punish or even a lock, which is much worse
I have a love/hate relationship with this game
"Why Smash Ultimate is The Best"
(3 days later)
"Why Smash Ultimate SUCKS"
I completely agree with what you said though 😭
I never noticed Wario also claps his feet when he up airs
My friend told me that he thinks sakurai and nintendo intentionally made broken DLC (smash 4 bayo, fp2) to kill the game on purpose so people move on to the next game and a “Melee 2” doesn’t happen
I feel like if they lowered the input delay, online would be much more tolerable too
Yeah I’ve always thought that part of the reason why Online feels so bad was due to the base input delay offline being so high to begin with. As far as peer-to-peer delay-based netcodes go, Ultimate’s is probably not any worse than others.
@@Sh1v3rIZAE The crazy part about the game having 6 frames of input lag that larry didn't talk about is that when you play online there's intentionally more input delay which makes online even more unbearable
@@MerryBlind yeah hard to fuck up the bare minimum
Get a modded switch and you’ll be good
@@MerryBlind No, it's still very bad. Bad frame times and constant slowdowns have nothing to do with input delay.
I HATE crossups in this game with a burning passion, they're just so goddamn inconsistent, and lost so many games due to inconsistent crossups
Also GSP, i hate the GSP system
Exactly. Why can someone's dash attack decide if It wants to cross up or not. One or the other. It's not hard.
Really 0 dash attacks should ever cross up though
Melee has 3 frames of input delay. Sm4sh has 5. Ult has 6. Ult online adds another 4-ish + no rollback netcode
Some things you covered but some other things I figured I'd add on lol:
Movement Sucks!
- Can't run off platforms without getting stuck sometimes
- Can't drop from platforms while running
- Can't easily cancel initial dash. So you can't dash dance normally, you have to spam left and right extremely fast in order to do it.
Combat:
- Mashing out of a grab is the worst defensive mechanic ever. After your mash, you will probably do a random attack afterwards. It should've just been directional based like Virtua Fighter. If you guess the direction fast enough, you tech the throw.
- 8 way Directional Airdodges makes less 50/50 situations, less reads
- Nintendo thought we wanted 8 Way directional air dodges, but that was ONLY because of wavedashing
- Less Hitstun for some characters
- Most weak grabs don't guarantee combos
- Roll input priority, so sometimes you get a roll accidentally during combat
- Terrible training mode, can't practice real combos/setups without a modded Switch
- Parry doesn't freeze other players long enough to perform proper punishes. So your parry doesn't always guarantee a punish ()
- Parry doesn't reflect projectiles
- Wavedashing is nerfed. Instead of just giving people the OPTION
- Ledge options are too fast. There are 4 options you would have to cover, leading to a 25/25/25/25 situation.
Online:
- LAN Adapter 20$, (Good Gamecube Controller 100$), Nintendo Online - 5$/month
- Input Delay is HORRIBLE
- Terrible Netcode
- No Easy way to Voice Chat - have to download an App
Characters:
- Tether recoveries are extremely fast and have a wide range to recover making them unbalanced
- Some are too small to hit consistently
- Unbalanced
- Weak characters don't get necessary buffs
- Not all characters are fast enough to get OTG (On the Ground) reads. i.e Doctor Mario. So specific characters are just better at this than others
- Campy characters (Projectile Spam or Sonic's speed being able to time you out)
- Echo Fighters aren't much of a difference
- No DLC Costumes
Competitive:
- Nintendo pulls Smash from EVO
- No Support from Nintendo for Competitive scene
- Official Nintendo Tourney Prize Rewards are NINTENDO POINTS instead of Cash prizes... wtf??
- eSports sponsors are becoming less and less due to Nintendo's lack of support
Replay-ability:
- No Subspace Emissary-style adventure mode
- Nothing much else that's fun/exciting to do except play online
- (If using a Gamecube Controller) Your controller will stop working optimally around 2-3 months so it will cost you at least 40$ for a new one every month unless you get a 100$ Phobb Controller (or a 60-70$ Phobb conversion kit)
Official Dev Support:
- No communication from Nintendo about the game. Only when new characters were coming
- Terrible Patch notes
- More nerfs than Buffs. Make weaker Characters stronger
Overall I agree, but the reason they do Nintendo Points instead of cash prizes is do to Japanese law. Same reason why Japanese tournaments don't have any prizes. Also, we definitely got more buffs than nerfs.
Also, some of your opinions in the characters section are dubious, but I won't go into that.
I agree, except I think projectiles are too weak due to lack of shield damage. The more honest projectiles are generally too weak except for charge shots.
I don’t agree about ledge options. Being on ledge is really bad already, and there are plenty of ways to cover three (or sometimes even all) ledge options with a single tactic
You are 1000% right about initial dash. It should be cancelable via shield.
I agree with nearly all of this. Also I find the controls in this game to be overall very poor. I've stopped blaming myself after several years of playing this game and have accepted that adapting to these controls are just so needlessly complicated compared to the other games in the series where it felt like anything I did came out when I wanted it to. Between the buffer, the lag, and the ultra sensitive stick controls, this game feels totally off and I feel like I'm fighting more with myself than the actual opponent 90 percent of the time.
DLC is kinda why I don't play this game anymore. Also Buffering system is janked if you don't have, or grew up not playing on a GC controller.
Same. Every time a DLC character got released I had to stop playing the game for a month until it became tolerable again.
Skins that I would have loved to see in Ultimate
- Mario Sports skins (Strikers, Golf, etc)
- Funkey Kong
- Dread Suit for Samus
- Classic Link and Zelda (In the styles of Ocarina, TP, SS, etc)
- Ganondorf in Hyrule Warriors, WW and TP outfits
- Train Conductor Toon Link
- Pit with the 3 Sacred Treasures
- Ash Greninja
- Big Boss for Snake
- Alm for Marth/Lucina
- Dark Samus with her more "Organic" Looks
Wedding Bowser :)
The way Ash Greninja is literally already in the game as an alternate form for his final smash and they didn't bother including it as a playable alt T__T
I think Celica is a better fit for Lucina than Alm
Smash ult is HANDSDOWN the worst gaming experience I've ever had online. This game is literally trash from a quality standpoint. This game is not balanced and the thing that infuriates me the most is the input delay and the inconsistency around characters. Why do some characters have less input delay than others? Why do some characters have the ability to recover from the depths of hell, whill others have 1 recovery option? I can go on and on, but I literally hate this game.
Highly agree on the DLC-costumes. Nintendo, I thought you only liked money (and ultra protection of your ID's)
What does this have anything to do with protection of an IP?
Nintendo only likes making money their way.
@@DANCERcow It doesn have to do anything with costumes, but protecting IP's is besides making money is held in real high regard by Nintendo. Ever seen how far they are willing to go with that?
@@marijndevries2654no yeah they go insaneo mode any time someone lightly breathes on their IP, like melee Evo 2013 or slippi
Can't believe Marss is dead, I'm devastated
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the short-hop aerials macro. Should have had an option to disable it, especially since it doesn’t even seem to work as intended.
The fact you have to delay your aerial to frame 2 after jumpsquat if you want a full-hop rather than frame 1 makes no sense. Literally impossible to do a frame perfect full-hop rising aerial.
That is, unless you have Stick Jump On, then and only then can you do a full-hop Up-Air on the first frame, but only with Up-Air... Makes no sense. Looks like a big bug affecting core gameplay and it never got fixed.
Facts! Its so stupid that there no option for full hop, especially for a character like sora that needs it to do the nair and fair combo. I usually have it on everytime i want to play him.
Honestly would’ve been nice if there was an option to set a button to always short hop and a button to always full hop
Dont forget the fact that you cant just bind a button to short hop. Two buttons are automatically bound to jump and you can press both at once to automatically short hop. Any idiot could have thought that it would be smarter to just have one bound to short hop but apparently Nintendo isn't smart enough to think of that.
@@OpinionatedGamer exactly lol
This is basically my only complain for the gameplay, even at high lvl of plays you can see players messing up combos or punish because of it.
The fact we have to pay for online, when it's this horrible is insane. The worst part is that it is a *PEER TO PEER* connection. They literally do not even have to pay to host server space for matches. They only have to pay for servers for the menus and information displayed about online. Peer to peer literally just connects your internet to the other guy's. We pay 5 dollars a month just to foot a huge chunk of the server load using our own internet connections. It is insane. I could at least understand if they had servers you could connect to because then the lag would not be nearly as bad either. The input would still suck but at least both people would have a consistent connection and when one lags the other is still free to act.
The switch-up of the century.
Also an incorrect switch up
I do understand it’s a joke, though, even if the complaints are genuine :)
Also, hi
@@float_peach sup
I’m doing well. How about you :)
Doin good as well
there is so SO much more wrong with Ultimate but at least someone is finally talking about this game's dumb flaws
The game is fine, you're worrying about nothing, these "issues" don't exist.
@Negativedemon98 That's delusional. This game is extremely flawed. The input delay and how you're forced to play on other people's rulesets in quick play is a very real problem. Same thing with DLC being abhorrent and ridiculously overtuned. Pre-Bayo Smash 4 was an infinitely better game, but they kill these games on purpose so you feel inclined to by the "new and improved next entry". The only good thing they did with this entry was Battle Arenas and actually giving you movement options on the ground so tilts are actually viable.
Input delay sucked, but the buffer was even worse. Platforms were super sticky too. If they re-released this with rollback, no buffer, and less input delay I'd probably buy two copies. If they added DLC costumes (I seriously believe Nintendo doesn't care about profit because this was practically free money that they said no to) I'd buy every single one of them. Oh, separate smash/tilt and jump/shorthop buttons would be freaking amazing too. I'd probably buy four copies at that point.
My biggest problem with this game is Online Smash: Preferred Rules. It’s always overlapping with other players rules. I. FREAKING. HATE THAT. You ask for 7 minute long battles and you get 4 minutes. You ask for Omega and you get Battlefield. You ask for Stock Battle and you get Stamina Battle. I could go on all day. It’s incredibly stupid!
And then you get matched with someone who plays with items 😖😖
the worst bro😢
@@blockingbeastthose are the worst kinds of matches especially if u play with someone who heavily relies on sudden death
That clunky input delay was so hard to initially get used to after smash 4… took months/years to get used to
My biggest gripe is that it takes way too long to get good practice in and actually improve in this game. If I only have one hour a day to devote to a game, I can spend all of that looking for a good connection on elite smash and maybe get one good set in if I’m lucky, or I can play something like SF6 or Strive with a real training mode to lab some combos and test out situations/punishes, AND play a bunch of excellent matches in the same amount of time.
offline tho, offline is sick, support your locals
just get good
Bro is whining about nothing
@@Astreon123 where's the whining?
that literally goes for every smash game though.
@@doofuscawtbeing good at the game does not change the fact that training mode probably did very little for you to get there + online still sucks
One thing that I have absolutely hated about Ultimate compared to past games is that you cannot just run through your opponents when you run into them. Instead, you end up pushing them regardless of how fast you are. I find this very annoying, as I feel that there have been several times where I end up getting hit by an attack that I otherwise would have avoided if I just ran past them. It may be just a personal thing, but man does it bother me.
I also hate that you cannot play custom stages in training mode or in special Smash. WHY?! You were able to do that in Brawl and Smash 4...
I forgot about the run-through change. That might actually be the worst decision. It caused top players to camp all the time. A game that favors rushdown also does not give you enough opportunity when you get in close.
Agreed, body blocking is annoying. At least on the ground. I think it’s kind of interesting in the air. In niche situations you can actually ledge hog in ult by body blocking someone from ledge snapping
Besides online and input delay, my biggest problem with this game is the movement and lack of microspacing options and similar options. No perfect pivots, no effective wavedash, no shield dropping, dash dancing is way worse etc. They removed every movement option for an expressive gameplay which I think would give a whole new flair to the game if it wasn't removed
No movement options and insane aerials on every character lead to some pretty degenerate (and hilarious) interactions.
"Oh my God they're moving so fast!"
Really? They just spammed safe short hop macros and shielded for 30 seconds. A few characters ignoring parries is whack as fuck as well. Watching Light parry Aegis and STILL be in disadvantage is horrible 😂
@@treycuret Yeah, exactly lmao
Not every game needs a million complicated options
Not saying it does. Just saying that a few more movement options, especially micro spacing options, would've made the game more expressive and interesting to watch and play
@@j.rubach9910
You are spoiled, Smash is literally the best platform fighter game, and you are complaining about anything really.
Matches are so predictable.
Heavies vs Zoners? Zoner wins
Game and Watch vs any character without good disjoints? G&W wins
Any character other than Cloud vs Steve? Steve wins
Any character that is not a good zoner vs Kazuya? Kazuya wins
The characters play themselves.
Bro Steve and Kazuya have their own problems when it comes to being OP but it's nothing compared to Sora. Holy shiet the lack of balance. Ridiculous. Absolute priorities, constant spamming, crazy recovery, etc, etc, etc
@@thisisfyne the three etcs really sell it for me
fox vs fox? Marth wins
Lol, relax, what you are saying is just true in competitive.
“This game sucks” precedes to play wolf in bracket
There are so many times I have tried to perfectly air dodge or tech and input delay says NO
If I turn off tap jump, I still get tech jump if I hold up. This oversight bothers me endlessly.
Never heard of tech jump.
As a person who grew up on Melee, Ultimate is absolutely unplayable. My brain cannot handle the delay
Smash 4 had varying amounts of input delay based on the type of controller you used (gamepad vs pro controller vs GCN, etc). Ultimate standardized the input delay to 6 frames which was the worst possible input delay from Smash 4.
They could've improved the rendering with lighting and shading on the characters. Make a comparison with Robin victory screenings from Smash 4 and her screenings in Smash Ultimate and you'll see what I mean.
Lmfao shulk was especially affected by this. Man looks like a Ken doll on his winscreen.
To me, the reason I stopped playing this game was the buffer system. Could never get used to it.
Just started the video and the first thing you mentioned was the input delay which is basically the exact reason I why quit this game lol. That and the combination of the ridiculously huge buffer window was enough for me to pretty much find this game entirely unplayable. I own every single iteration of the series and this is my least played Smash Bros game by FAR. More people need to call this out. I get that a ton of love went into this game, but it doesn't matter for crap when a couple of horrible decisions make it feel near unplayable for a lot of people.
Don't you love it when you try to fall through a platform with an aerial and just land on it? When you stand there like a doofus after you pressed a button because the input delay + lag ate your command? Or when you think you won the game but your opponent falls out of your move and you end up getting punished for hitting them? The Smash Ultimate experience everyone, where game losing jank awaits.
Besides the input delay, lack of wavedash, and overall bad movement options, the worst offender for Smash Ult imo is the HORRENDOUS character representation. Yes, there is an enormous roster ("everyone is here") but only a handful of characters genuinely feel unique. Playing Rivals after playing Smash for so long felt like a breath of fresh air, even with a whole-ass FIFTH of the character roster. All the characters felt deep from the start, with many different playstyles for each character. Ultimate doesn't need L-cancelling or anything like that, it just needs a major rework with someone at the helm open to real competitive balancing and ideas.
For the patches, although they do give a nod to pro/high level players (at least moreso than they used to) in patches, I suspect they still primarily balance the game based on online stats. I think it only looks like they pay attention to competition because players like Leo are very influential and many high level and wanna be high level players will be copying his character choices.
The nerfs they gave out to Little Mac and some other character who are barely competition viable only make sense if you take into account that at a low level of play, Characters like Little Mac and even Ganondorf are actually quite OP. In such games they are basically just randomly flailing at eachother until the other dies, and having a character who hits really hard is the most important variable in such a fight. Pikachu got buffs because for a huge percentage of players Pikachu is terrible. I mean I'm generally pretty ok at video games and I had to play this game for years before small, fast characters felt viable at all.
I think a lot of Smash players who have been playing since the N64 don't fully realize how much they have internalized those basic Smash skills over the years and just how bad at the game the average player is. Like your average player probably literally never hits shield or grab.
Well said.
Facts my gf spams captain falcon side/down b and thats basically it
IMO the other BIG issue that has existed from day one next to input lag - the platform physics! What the hell did they do these platforms? Like the input lag, we have all gotten used to this by now, but there's no reason for the platforms to feel so ridiculously sticky. I feel like they designed and tested the game with on much faster machines than the Switch hardware (less input lag) and with shield dropping, then changed both at the last minute.
It's something that gets easier, I think what actually sucks is you don't have a stream lined sheild drop. Platform play takes a lot of execution because of that. There's just no sheild drop. But I do understand what you mean, dropping through the platforms is hard and it makes them feel so insanely sticky.
The solution to making them a little nicer to drop through is to practice a quarter circle backwards input, or what Melee players call an "Isah drop" and you need to do it pretty fast tbh. That's what makes it so strict, but it does get a tiny bit easier with practice. Promise
@@debeb5148 Thanks for the input tip, I'll give it a try.
@@PrimeFlash93 Yw, I understand exactly how you feel lol
Falco became a DLC character aka Joker in my opinion. uptilt uptilt confirm into anything. neutral air and forward air shield poking mad easy and confirms into anything.
biggest thing i hate is when you completely grab someone and they throw out a move and you die for it. you completely watch your character start grabbing someone and then you trade
you mean getting punished?
@@doofuscawt no your grab trades with a move. i’m not saying you whiffed the grab
Yeah why the fuck can grabs trade with moves? Grabs are so ass on this game. I could've thrown one out a decade ago but it'll still get traded with some random shit. Someone please talks about how clanking needs to go too. It makes no sense for my sword to clank with someone's tiny jab that decides to clank from behind
@@postboy2242 bro today a g&w was using his neutral b at ledge, i get behind him with Lucina, FSMASH AND IT CLANCKED. Who the hell thought that was ok
I see people say this, but in previous smash games, you wouldn’t even get the trade, your grab would just fail. So the grab trade is a slight benefit for you
Why does a "Larry goes to Marss" buddy comedy just feel right?
The input delay is because of the gamecube adapter. Unless Nintendo were to develop a switch that had native gamecube ports there's no way to shorten the delay.
Was the input delay also a thing in 4 too?
It's not, it's present with the pro controller too
4 frames of the delay is inherent to the switch (2 are from smash), so smash is gonna be sluggish until they either improve the switch drivers or release a different console
I got my Nintendo Switch in 2019 with Smash Bros and Breath of the Wild. This is my 1st Smash Bros that I ever had and before that, my experience with fighting games were Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat and pretty much every fighting game done by SNK, but despite of how much fighters and how many content this game have it is still disapointed me and I barely touched the game since then. But the thing I really dislike is that, I grown up playing games with the Dpad, not the circle pad, and Smash Bros do not allow me to use the dpad for the movement. This is a plataform game with simple inputs, I will not destroy my fingers trying to do hadoukens or anything, so why I can not just use the dpad instead? It makes no sense.
I hate it how difficult it is to practice and to perform pro techniques in this game competitively with no true guides ,especially with rar back air mix ups,combos(wether true or false)
to be fair this is the easiest smash game to learn
@@CHOPPINxLORDS then please tell me where to start(not out of bad behavior)
In Ult because of the new dash mechanics it made rar bair much harder for no reason. It's so easy to misinput, many pro players use gimmicky control schemes to get around it.
@@CHOPPINxLORDSeasy to learn you say?After me working so hard to practice Pyras Side B to Footstool at 50 - 70%?Huh?
You forgot to mention how much the c-stick sucks and just doesn't work half the time, they had it right in 4 and it was the first thing I noticed when first playing Ultimate
Being a competitive Smash 4 player, I've never enjoyed the competitive side of Ultimate. The game has taken away so much creativity from the player, like I can't jab jab grab anymore for example, one of my favorite things to do in Smash 4. I can't run through shields which allowed for some great plays. The game has basically become a button masher: it becomes about who fastfall aerial's better. Also they absolutely destroyed Kirby in this game 😔
Smash 4 feels more fun to play gameplay wise than Ultimate imo
Making your gsp visible was a mistake and it's not even calculated well. Makes everyone play lame on elite smash. Arenas are more fun because of this.
I thought the heavy input delay was an online thing....
Ive played the game since release now and recently finally quit playing cause I dont know any irl that play it and only have online which is just too unbearable at this point. I switched controllers and everything so now my only hope left was that all my problems with the game are online only. The buffering, the input delay, the eaten inputs and th1e THOUSANDS of weird hitbox interactions.
I really want to play this game, but every time I watch a tourney and go "alright lets give it another shot" I play one game where I am basically not even the one playing always going "yep shielded that, I airdodged through that... ok so he hit me through my sword fair somehow I see... ah I died of of the one interaction that shouldnt have even happened nice" and then close the game again.
I NEVER could get past the input delay and buffer systems, and the lack of interesting universal movement options existing AT ALL. The buffer is too god awfully high and impossible to disable or modify, and the input delay in conjunction just makes it feel like I'm playing a game that has put shackles with deadweight on them along with placing me in molasses.
It feels like ass to play it and feel like I'm doing what I intended to. Whenever I play I just revert to braindead play and just do nothing special.
I stand by this is the only bad Smash game. By bad, I mean BAD.
It's funny how I used to not complain about the input delay. I used to think it wasn't that bad, people overreacting, and then I played an actual fighting game that I love, Dragonball FighterZ.
I've played DBFZ since it's open beta and anytime I get an input delay of 4 online, it's almost as if I have no control of the game. It's infuriating to even attempt to play the game at 3 frames. It's why the game getting rollback is a huge deal.
And then I go back to Ultimate, a game I've been playing seriously since day1, and I'm sitting here like, "why? Why put up with all this bs anymore?"
I was a huge sm4sh fan, I bought a Switch for Ulti. Went to Ult locals consistently before Rona, competed at regionals/majors in other plat fighters. Everything in this vid is why it's a dust collector now.
besides inherent game design like online or input delay, I think a lot of this and other issues stems from the game trying to cater to comp or hardcore while maintaining being a casual game. You either need to find the perfect balance which ult almost reached but needs a few tweeks or just go all in/lean into one side more. LIke training mode and some patches are obv made with more hardcore players in mind but they never fully committed to fleshed them out.
I also think later down the line they became negligent or at least didnt care to cater anymore as if u think about it, a character like steve does not need to be as strong as they are for casual play. Sure having a strong character can be fun but whats more fun is just using a character who is. According to social media, the ideal smash experience is singleplayer content or items ffa which that wouldn't matter in relation to character's strength. They should have balanced characters around comp while making them unique for casuals. Thats the perfect balance and commitment they failed to reach and I sorta hope they have an Ultimate deluxe or something so they can rectify it. I dont blame sakurai and his crew as they had a direction while also throwing some bones to us + trying to manage everything in a game like ultimate is hard so next game they can just focus on narrowing down how to make a good game in terms of gameplay rather than appeal since it would already be there
The input delay is what really screws me up, because with the buffer its not that bad to just do something as planned, but the noment you react to something and wanna adjust it just feels so clunky
Its 6 frames,stfu ots not noticeable
I hate every online aspect of this game. The GSP system is completely arbitrary and doesn’t feel rewarding at all, why not have an actual ranking/ELO system? Wtf are the arenas? It’s like they asked themselves “how can we take a normal pre-game lobby and make it as un-intuitive as possible?” Not to mention Co-op mode ONLY let’s you play with someone right next to you?? Oh you wanna play a singles tournament? Hope it’s the right day of the week! And don’t even get me started on the input delay and peer-to-peer lag… swear they don’t want us to have fun😭
Finally, someone sees it and talks about it. I left this game for a reason.
They nerfed Ike a mid tier but they never nerfed ROB, Pikachu, Roy, Sonic, and Game and Watch.That doesn't make any sense. Also, they created FP2 but they nerfed a mid tier's best move lol. I stopped taking this game seriously because the online is trash, training mode is subpar, and having to mod your switch to have a good training mode is such too much of a hasle to make it work. Paying 20-30 bucks on locals isn't feasible. Lastly, buffer system and the delay is just too much.
That's sad, poor Ike lol
i hate that the training mode doesnt give you frame data and you have to look up which moves are safe and which are not
you should also have a setting to turn off smash attacks by pressing direction plus A at the same time because sometimes i want to dash attack and i do a f-smash instead
Somehow this is the first I heard of the 6 frame input delay and my entire experience is clicking in place. It always felt like the game was so behind and I assumed it was because I didn't know how to work around the buffer system (which is still probably the case). Putting a drift aerial where I want it still seems impossible. In addition I always felt all those flashy animations and effects often didn't like up with where the object actually was. It got worse with the patches but I always felt like spacing around swords and fists to attempt a whiff punish was just a good way to get hit. The pocket of air nearby was just as lethal I guess.
I play Marth/Lucina, and I hate how many characters with stretchy limbs outrange the length of my entire arm and sword. Like it's bad enough that people play this game by spamming projectiles while still having very lethal attacks at melee range, but I've seen so many kill zooms where 0% of the opponent's model is touching me.
Everyone with a sex kick may as well be Luigi from Melee, multi-hit moves that drag you into them are annoying, but seriously I'm traumatized of the little glancing blow spark.
Agreed
Lucina/ marth range is truly bottom tier
I'm really, really surprised that the single player wasn't brought up once.
The single player was atrocious and there wasn't a mention to that at all.
How so?
@@HylianWindRider First, they took out a lot of what made the single player great. Things like Break the Targets and event matches are completely gone. They made no attempt at trying to replace them, they're just outright gone.
Secondly, it has the single worst classic mode to appear in a Smash Bros. You don't even get to fight Master Hand as most of the roster. In fact, they completely removed the "arcade aspects" to the classic mode and they made it so the fights you do as each specific character is set in stone. Meaning that they removed all variability, which kept the mode fresh in older titles.
As an aside, they also removed the trophies. This was a monumentally bad decision. It gave you legitimately *nothing* to collect in the game! Don't even get me started on the "Spirits". They're just the stickers from Brawl, but worse because they're all you have now. Trophies were great because they had unique descriptions and gave insight into the history of various games. Plus, classic mode and All-Star Mode each had different trophies that each had different descriptions, giving you a reason to actually use the different characters in the different modes. By removing the trophies, they removed any motivation to explore any single player game mode even once.
Lastly, World of Light was such an insult. It was like they gave a half-hearted attempt at event matches, but in a way that lets you turn the "event" part off. So now you have basic matches that aren't at all special, where you don't earn anything worthwhile for your efforts. It has none of the depth and creativity of Melee's Adventure Mode or Brawl's Subspace Emissary, nor does it have any of the unpredictable chaos of the Smash Run from Smash 3D. Hell, Smash Tour in Smash Bros U was better than WoL and that was guided by RNG!
It's as if the developers didn't even try. I swear, the actual development time for SSBU had to have been less than a year, because the entire game feels unfinished. It feels like a game that was made by people who have no idea what Smash Bros is, only using secondhand knowledge of the game from people who didn't even know how to play it.
This game is irredeemably bad and is one of the absolute worst first-party titles Nintendo has ever released.
@Wiggimus Not to mention some of the spirit fights are infamously unfair. They also removed a lot of player interaction and satisfaction from the final smashes.
The online experience is so bad and toxic for me that I stopped playing entirely during the lockdown. What got me to touch online again was the latency slider mod, but now that it's gone since the last update I have no reason to put myself to needless frustration again by playing online.
The garbage balancing is the worst part of the game. How, despite several balance patches, has ganondorf always been the worst charaacter? How do they justify buffing top tiers and nerfing low tiers? And how did they justify putting kazuya, with all his insane attributes, in the same game as ganondorf, who has glaring weaknesses and few redeeming qualities?
Idk why they lowered everybody's cool down frames on almost every attack. Not being able to punish moves that you would think are punishable just feels like awful fighting game design. The game is fun, don't get me wrong, but I think they tried to appeal to melee players a bit too much. For example, I get why some smash attacks are kinda safe to just throw out, but not almost every single one. Why can Lucina fsmash in my face and slightly whiff, but still be able to shield? I just left things at "well maybe I'm bad at microspacing, after all, I was a little too far away to realistically punish them." Ever since, I've been working on microspacing and which moves I can realistically punish in a scrap, but damn does it feel bad watching even top players go to try and punish a move that they think is punishable. Neutral in this game can feel like either 2 rams crashing into each other, or 2 walls refusing to budge. My greatest example will always be how sonic can't punish Ness for using pk thunder while being close to him. Ig it depends on your definition of close
The game has stiff movement and a lot of input lag so by the time you can actually do anything in game as a reaction your opponent is already safe. Weak defensive techniques and a nerfed shield grab mean your best defense is often spamming moves back lol
To clarify my last example, I watched a set of Sonix fighting a Ness player on Smashville and failing to punish Ness after using an aerial pk thunder, then briefly landing on the middle plat. I would consider Sonix to be relatively close to Ness to get a punish, but it's honeslty open to interpretation. Basically, Sonix goes to punish the aerial pk thunder landing lag with an up air, but couldn't get there in time. Afterwards, TKbreezy was like "we need to nerf that move!!" Does anybody know what match I'm talking about?? I just thought that Sonix should have been able to get the punish
Ironically ultimate is the least appealing smash to melee players
Not buffing dedede enough :(
Triple D my beloved.
I hated fighting against Dedede when I started out because he can break shield easily and can feel a bit unstoppable, but K Rool does these things better. Dedede was not able to do great even with Atomsk managing to get into Summit.
"input delay" OH MY GOOOOOOOOD
I am a casual player, I have no history, background, or knowledge on this topic, but I absolutely felt this since I've been playing the game for the 5 years it's been out and thought I was going crazy. I always play online so I thought maybe it's just Nintendo's servers sucking as they are known to do but I couldn't pin it down since it acted like no lag I've ever seen before. I finally get what's happening. Thank you so much.
I put the game down, Input delay is gross, online is horrible. Character design choice in this game are the worst I’ve seen. I don’t even watch smash anymore. It’s been like a year
The meta in ultimate is such a mess, there’s way too many characters. Hopefully smash 6 has like 30ish characters
I honestly don't like world of light at all and I don't understand why people love it
They just really hate anything competitive and it makes me sad.
One of the things I can't stand is when your standing next to or behind someone and because of the stupid mechanic that doesn't let you run through someone, even animations of smash attacks or someone just being in front of you can make you miss a punish or a grab. Or sometimes if you try to land close you'll teleport left or right since you can't go through them
What I hate the most about the body block is that is inconsistent. Like... most characters' dash attack go through shields except some specific and unexplained ones like Mewtwo's
@@Seba20901 What i like is how some moves don't even decide and occasionally go through shield on other times just doesnt
I agree with everything except the dlc skins. Not that I wouldn't love more skins but PLEASE DON'T GIVE NINTENDO MORE IDEAS ON HOW TO MAKE MONEY. The console costs 300$. The pro controller costs 70$. The game costs 60$. We don't need more things to buy for this game lol.
Especially recolors!!! Recolors take so little time to make if you are going to sell a skin it needs to have actual changes that are worth money!
the best buff they ever did was making Mii Gunner Absorbing Vortex have the same endlag as PSI Magnet
We should all play Minecraft instead
Marss and Larry are so fucking funny whenever they are in the same call lmao
For the DLC costumes, it would be cool if some of them were other characters, like Alph with Olimar. Like, make a Funky Kong costume for DK, a Dry Bowser costume for Bowser, Crystal for one of the Star Fox guys, Hawlucha for Incineroar, Octoling for Inkling, Birdo for Yoshi, etc., alongside some which are the same character like ToTK Ganondorf or one of the new Peach outfits in her new game Showtime!. I wish your suggestion could come true now, because this concept coulda been so cool
That's why HDR is better than vanilla Ultimate, because it fixes the flaws that Ultimate has.
I hate I can't even play heavies because I'm going to get destroyed every single time
Playing Ganon = Asking to lose
@@postboy2242 Any heavy for that matter. Adding a weight class option would be an easy fix.
I think that I kinda dislike how the balancing patches worked as well. It was mostly numbers tweaks on moves specifically, and I don't think it was very common to get new or interesting changes, or changes to things like jump heights or movement speeds
To be fair to Ultimate costumes have always been an issue with Smash. By Brawl they absolutely should've had costume representation, but it always felt like they shortcut it by just making them different palettes. I mean Mario can have his wedding outfit from Odyssey, why not take it further? There are so many missed opportunities for references they can use for character alts. They could also do the Ike approach too, where you can switch between his Radiant Dawn/Path of Radiance and Brawl alt, so why can't say Link be any version of him you want to be? Or Ms. Pacman for Pacman? Or the many sports games for the Mario crew?
Explains why I spend hundreds of hours in training mode and still can’t improve
Pos game lol
Love Smash Ultimate (as well as most fighting games) but since I play primarily on PC and a lot of games have gotten great rollback netcode in the past 2 years I canceled Switch online like a year ago and barely play Ultimate anymore. Friends were telling me how rusty I am on it but I can't bring myself to practice when I have options like SF6 and Strive now.