Europa Universalis - The game that broke 3 minute board games
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- čas přidán 5. 02. 2024
- Europa Universalis - The game that broke 3 minute board games
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Designer,Eivind Vetlesen,
Artist,Tomasz Jedruszek, Olly Lawson, Joeri Lefevre,
Publisher,Aegir Games + 2 more
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3 minute board games theme Music by Vic Granell
"Shiny tech" Kevin Macleod
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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3 minute board games are J Carmichael and S Rodgers - Hry
What more to say, probably a lot more. I barely touched on the rules for the game, which i guess is not really the point of a review. the key really is what does the game do and how does it make you feel. And for EU, the answer to those questions are "a lot" and "Overwhelmed".
What I may not of made clear is that despite all the systems and rules, the game flows remarkably well and makes sense. This is no Campaign for North Africa, where the rules are just stupidly complex for the sake of it. Everything serves a purpose here. Anyway, fascinating and amazing game.
And just so we are clear, the 3 minute format ain't going anywhere. Normal service resumes on Saturday with Waterfall park in about 3 minutes. Our schedule is trackable here. trello.com/b/NTOjHZkj/3-minute-board-games
Nice one, a great overview of the game. You are totally right about all the merits of this game, it is fantastic! A real suprise for me last year, and I’ll just mention one reason why: the historic event cards. You dipped into it talking about how terrible the effects can be and how everyone needs to choose one each round. What I would add is that as a game mechanism they are one of the best ways I have seen to bring player choice and history into game play. With time players come to realise there are certain cards that come up each Age that are of vital consideration for their kingdom. This might include marriages, heresy, important historical changes regarding the Holy Roman Empire, or Englands presence in France, or some of the critical things that happened in every part of the map. Things aren’t railroaded here, how things turn out, with historical context depends on the different choices that can be made on each card, and of course depends on who gets the card. I hope this makes sense, but from a gaming of history perspecitve I think this game is a huge success. This game is so much fun, that the time flies, and like you say you just want to organise more time playing it. I hope you get some more time playing it soon. Cheers for the review.
Ohh, come on, you could have done a three minute boardgame review of this game.
But I do appreciate the longer review, and maybe you should do the occassional longer review when you feel like it. Thumbs up for the review.
I really tried to script one @chrisisisB but it just wasn't working. Not every musical act fits top of the pops, and not every game can fit our format
I have over 7,700 hours in the video game, and this looks just as complicated. That said, EU4 is my favorite game of all time... just wish it was as easy to find a group to play something like this.
Just before I moved out of California, my college friends bought a copy of Civilization. I loved it so much, I considered canceling my move to Texas. If this is a beefy Civilization, me and my history-loving husband are going to hunt down a copy and spread it out over his enormous gaming table. Back in the day, that table seated 8 RPG players.
God, I love being retired! ❤😂
Bless. And yeah, I have original civ with the cover that looks like obi-wan kenobi on it and we played that so much.
Likely not a game for me, yet I appreciate the thoughtful & succinct 'feel' for Europa Universalis.
It’s a game I really wish was for me; but I just don’t have the time or group for it sadly
The original computer game is my most played game on steam, It's truly amazing that they managed to convert it into board game format. Going for crazy ahistoric scenarios is so much fun. I've converted the Ottomans to orthodox christianity and reformed the Roman Empire, I've made Mali a great power, I've colonised the Americas as China and so much more. I'm so glad you and others have had so much fun with it but there is no way in hell I'd ever manage to get this to the table and its not for me.
Looks like they've really stayed true to the video game. Quite the achievement.
Hopefully it does inspire games designers to consider some aspects in area control games, notably the way this game demands players are more considered in their ambitions, rather than the usual reckless slugfest.
Ian, that's possibly my fav takeaway from the game. That it isn't just "build the most units, kill the enemy dead", it has SOOOOO much more nuance.
Charlie. The game also encourages you to make custom scenarios and has robust solo rules. So i can totally see people digging into the crazy ahistoric stuff
There was a board game before the first computer version. It was convoluted and more difficult than this version and even my dedicated gaming friends wouldn’t play past the first few turns (and we played quite a few monster war games together). The first version of the computer game was very close to how the board version worked and I loved that.
Coming from the good old days of Avalon Hill games with hundreds of cardboard chits and paper maps watching this takes me back. All you are missing is lookup tables.
That's a huge part of my background, SSI and AH chit and counter wargames.
I do like how here and elsewhere you drill down into what the actual fun is
That's what really matter ain't it.
If i had the spoons and the ability to do it properly or I guess a partner to help id love to do videos or something on WHY to play games. Drilling down on what we like about them and how mechanics tickle our brains
That's a bloody good idea.
Just want to say, I really appriciate your 3 minute reviews. The amount of info you get across in that short time is amazing and has helped me so much. Keep up the great work.
Agree. In a world of so many bloated 30-60 minute 'reviews' that are more like detailed walkthroughs of every aspect of a game, it's so wonderful to have these short form videos that just tell me the basics I need to know to know if a game is for me or not in the first place.
Thank you for doing this video! This is my favorite game of all time and I only play it solo. Its nice to just leave out and do a little at a time. Love the evolving story of an alternate history, even with the bots. Completely agree with everything you said. Sadly I don't think I'll ever be able to get a group together to learn and play, but the solo bots are actually fun to run once you get the hang of it.
The bots are pretty damned amazing. This stayed setup on my 2nd table for months
I wouldn't say you need to be a history buff or know anything of history to enjoy this.
Most of my group have very little knowledge about the time period and they enjoy the game purely because of the mechanics, negotiations and the look and feel of the game.
Even though they prefer sci-fi games, they still tend to suggest playing this instead because of the sheet amount of fun this provides with shifting alliances, bribing people to take certain event cards, moving armies to scare people before making empty threats etc..
Hell, even my wife who loves Terraforming Mars, Spirit Island and Star Realms fell in love with this game.
We end up spending about 10 hours of game time per age with 5 players including lunch and dinner, so a grand campaign would be about 3 days I guess.
Fascinating. Thank you for this perspective.
I really like these longer reviews. Been loving the ones for Arkham Horror, and it's the same here! Thank you and hope all is well 😊
The game on Steam is so good. Easily the hardest PC game I ever played.
i am a history buff , now i need friends to play this with
Sounds impossible, mate..
The bots work well and there is an app on bgg to run them. Makes turns super quick if you know what's going on
Just do the solo mode... I've been trying to find a group to play this for 4 months already.
Wow. That is truly epic. Thank you for giving it the overview it will permit. 😆 Theme and complexitywise, there’s some echoes ringing for me of playing the computer game Crusader Kings, which has the advantage of the computer doing a lot of the keeping track of details.
Just commenting to say that you're spot on with the 3-minute format. It takes a bit of viewer knowledge and experience to be able to ingest some more complex board games in 3 minutes, but you do a great job and provide a valuable service. I can watch your video and very quickly decide if a game is going to gel with my energy or not and I love that it's distilled the way you do it. I was wondering when you'd find a game that just wouldn't fit 🤣
Fantastic game, my group has been playing for a year or so and never has a game been even remotely the same :)
We normally break most games by the second play through (if not earlier) and EU is one of only a few to survive :)
TI, and Eclipse being two others that have survived. Though we havent played TI in awhile.
Great video, I got this game a while ago but was daunted by the sheer scale. Now I'm fired up to get stuck in. I'm reminded of the 1980s game Empire of the Middle Ages, which also ate up weekends and more and I really enjoyed.
There is another chap who mentioned that game in the comments, he might appreciate your pov on it.
As a history buff, I love this game. I agree that its treatment of expansion/exterminate is terrific in how it reflects that wars are expensive and unpopular is a nice change. It is hard to table t that length, but I dont know what you could take out without changing it to a copy if every other 4x game.
Mad respect for giving a good breakdown for this game. On the one hand, this size of game is probably not for me in my current stage of life... but, it does look really cool. I may actually try to get in a play. And if not, it's always good to see what's going on in other parts of the board game world that i don't often walk in. Thanks!
The Plague is a fantastic event. I usually weaponize it against my opponents especially when it has a bunch of coins on it already. small negative for me in a border region but devastating for my opponents where i put down the majority of the plague down. Halfing any army, making a big city small, halfing their income from those regions next income phase.
Fantastic event and makes someone jump up and down in frustration every time :')
Considering the fact that you managed covering most core concepts of Mage Knight, this is saying something :p
I know right, Mage knight, gloomhaven, Twilight Imperium, those were fine
This is based on the EUIV PC game, I recognize the art.
There was an old Europa Universalis board game, the origin of it all, which was made in 1993. In 2000 it was adapted as a computer game and the fourth interaction of that led to a board game, which is this game you reviewed. A nice circle if you think about it.
Could you review the original game? Is it available somewhere to be bought?
Your last two questions answer each other as we only review games that are available to purchase when i do the video. The original EU has been out of print for years.
I desperately want to play Mr President, speaking of behemoths. I love the slow pan up. Reminds me of a certain Virgin Queen review from many years ago.
Great video about a fantastic game! Thank you!
Does Steph like? Thanks for giving this the long video it deserves. I appreciate ylur channel and hard work. I would love to be playing it with your group if I lived there!!!
Nah, this sorta game is not Stephs jam in person. That said she plays a bunch of Crusader Kings on the PC
I can't see this being for a lot of people. It looks like it commands an immense amount of time, patience, and energy. It likely generously rewards those who love this sort of thing. I used to think I wanna play this sort of Titanic game. As the person among my friends who learns the game initially, I think this would also break me. It seems wayy too much for me. All the power to you to have the stamina for this, J, while also raising a little one. Excuse me while I wait for our usual program.
Normal service resumes on Saturday NZ time ;)
Great video well done!
This is currently my favorite boardgame. Period. All the depth and historicity of the wargames I love and grew up on, and all of the elegant systems and sub-systems of my favorite eurogames - not to mention that it's wrapped in a superbly produced package. It is absolutely worth the time and effort it takes to learn it and to play it over a full day (or full weekend if you want to truly savor it).
Got a full weekend game coming up in early March!
Absolutely obsessed with this game
Great video, as always! I would love to play this, but I just don’t see getting a group together to make that happen. I definitely buy games to solo, but I love playing the pc game already, so I wouldn’t pick it up just to solo. Thanks again for another wonderful review.
Like many commentators here, I have played the computer version of this fantastic game (I started in 2015 and have over 1,000 hours on it). It is truly the most complex computer game I have ever played. This review has made me drool, but alas, I doubt I’d be able to assemble a team of gaming friends to attempt it . Great review!
Fair. It does have a solo mode, but its very full on
Great review. Definitely in my wheel house and Id love to add it to the collection, but like Twilight Imperium 4 which sits on the shelf looking pretty 99% of the time, I know this beast wouldnt get played as often it should
I think this is even hard to table that TI too
Hello from Korea. Great job. Yes, it is a burden trying to explain this game in 3 minutes. I own the copy and expansion you show in the video. This is the Magnum Opus of Civ games, which every collector should own. It should also be in the collection of every collector of civilization games. A new expansion next year -2025-. Thank you for all your hard work making this video. Your explanation of this masterpiece was spot on. Cheers!
It's probably a game I would really enjoy spending a night on, or several days during a vacation or cabin trip or whatever, but now as a grown-up approaching my fourties, all I can think of when I see it is how it'd be near-impossible to gather that many people and to find time to play it. I don't get to play board games that much at all in the first place, and when I do, it's typically with one or two other people. Oh well.
Did a 12am to 10pm game of it today. All chaps in our 40s. We did have to book it all 6 weeks in advance mind you
have your tried pax renaissance?
Really nice review.
I think I knew this wasn’t a game for me after 2 minutes lol.
I suspect it's not for 95% of people watching ;)
Man If I can put my hands on a copy of that game! :)
Would be curious to hear your thoughts on Pax Renaissance!
Unlikely to happen sorry. I have not played Pax Renaissance and have no plans to.
@@3MBGpax renaissance is AMAZING. It’s really not as bad as this rules wise but highly recommend
Appreciate the video, but I’m nearly 100% certain I’ll never play it.
1:20 what an entrance
I'm impressed. You're lucky If you find agroup of 6 History nerds for that 😅
Well, we've done it for Civilization and Here I stand in the past. I'm sure every city has just enough people for a game ;)
Saw your position on AI art!
I'm joining that patreon!
Kia ora John, thank you
Hey just a heads up that your description on this vid references Arkus games, I think a couple others do too - just assuming it's a copy & paste aspect since your Storm Raiders vid
Ah, i tend to copy the meta data from the previous video and replace. And clearly missed that, will sort
Nice video Jay, I'd totally play this. Just out of curiosity, what size is your table pls? Just looking at buying one for a new gaming room.
1.8m x 1.2m. It was hand built by one of my friends
@@3MBG Thank you
And that is coming from the man who said: I can do Gloomhaven in three minutes.
I appreciate that you did the game justice by not squeezing it in the Procrustean bed.
Your channel can afford to indulge in occasional epicness.
Gloomhaven is not that deep. A pretty straightforward game.
@@lostinsim You are right. Twilight Struggle for example is deeper than Gloomhaven. But to convey the essence of the game in three minutes and why it might be something for you, is much more challenging for GH than it is for TS.
My Father in law has had the same 6 player group of World in Flames (exclusively) since the 90s. I'd be interested in introducing this to him but there's only 2 of us that would play it consistently
Oh wow, World in Flames is a beast of a game too. Even if the cover makes me laugh every time
@3MBG I just looked it up and there's a newer release called The Price of Power focused at 1-4 players. Have you had a chance to look into that one?
That is this game, its just the core box only whereas this include the Eastern map as well.
The rulebook is 96 pages with smallest readable font possible. I think that's enough information
It's the iconography that makes it hard to read though, lol
lifestyle game / game group long weekend camping / cottage meetup 😉
Personally, I prefer the 3 minutes format. 😀
And will continue playing Europa Universalis on my home computer. great game.
As mentioned elsewhere, this is happened "as well as" not "instead of" our normal format. And it's a special
"Better than Twilight Imperium because History!" XD
Yeah, nah. TI's flaw is not its dull and generic sci-fi setting. I can handle that, in fact i've designed two of my own games with their own dull generic sci-fi settings.
It's the negotiation style of play in the game. Instead of epic encounters between giant fleets, it's two people arguing for 10 minutes over one trade good deal while everyone else looks at their phone, that is the core of the game. It's a game that will be won by the person who can keep talking for 12 hours until everyone else loses concentration or wants to go home.
Also negatives, win conditions that amount to a series of fetch quests and tick boxes. And war is also so all or nothing that you can play a game where everyone turtles because they are too scared to lose anything, because the first person to attack the leader is almost certainly going to lose the game. So people sit on their hands.
Almost every game i played of TI3 or TI4 that wasn't my core group of players has been the absolute pits. And my core group much prefers something quicker Like Ascendacy.
@@3MBG fair points
“How long does it take to play?
- Well once you get into it, about 45 minutes.
- oh that’s pretty rea -
- per turn
…
“
YEP
If I have 'Empires of the Middle Ages' from SPI, do I still need this.? Looks like an update of that game.
no idea mate as i've never played that one. Looking at its publication date of 1980 i will say that EU benefits from a lot of modern developments in board game design to make it more engaging. So possibly?
I so want to play. I will never get to play
Would you always play it with 6 Players, or is it playable with 4 Players (without the expansion)?
It's playable at any count, my games were all 4 player ones though. 6 is legit a big deal
How does this compare to mega civ? Or western empires? Which is better?
How big is your table? 1.2 x 1.8m??
1.4 x 1.8m i think.
Lol awesome intro
That took so long to setup solo.
I put 1600 hours into EUIV on PC haha. This game looks amazing, but damn... how to get it to the table? I need a bigger place, a bigger table and more dedicated board gaming friends hahahaha.
speaking from experience: all true
I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy playing this. Definitely not going to buy it though, wouldn't have anyone to play it with. Looks cool though.
This game looks extremely interesting. How long is an avarage game? A scenario?
We've found about 4-6 hours per age with 4 players. So a full 4 age game would be long as.
But we've played 2 age games in a day
@@3MBG Great to know. I am strongly considering backing this monstrosity. 😅
Looks like an amazing game, also one I would have little desire to play. Just too much happening and too long for me.
Is this better than mega civ or western empires? How does it compare?
No idea, not played either
@@3MBG so is safe to say you prefer this over civilization?
Yeah, its more focused and defined. Civ is quite abstract in many ways.
It looks awesome but the setup time makes it look like a digital purchase, if possible.
Well, there is also the Europa Universalis pc game already
James Cook the first European to circumnavigate the globe? What!? Juan Sebastian Elcano, a Spanish navigator, was the first European (and actually person in History) to circumnavigate the globe, and he did it more that 2 centuries before than James Cook.
No one said James Cook was the first European to circumnavigate the globe. At least not in this video. You appear to be correcting a mistake that only happened in your mind
Ah, i said "Circumnavigate Aotearoa", Aotearoa is not the world, its just where i live.
Ah okey! Thanks for the clarification! Great channel btw! Cheers
Play time is extremely long?
And, it's an extremely complex game?
Yes, a full 6 player campaign is a weekend event, or more. And the rule set is very deep
Now do OG Europa Universalis :)
Hahahahaha, omg no, never, not that or the stupid north Africa meme game, lol
@@3MBG It's an amazing game but quite long.
The Computer game still uses lots of the systems that were in the boardgame.
You could've cut this video into 3 minute segments.
i could have, but then i'd be like those channels who chop their top 100 into 10 videos to milk the views. And that would make me sad.
This is not the content I subscribed for. Having short reviews is what makes your channel unique and I hope you can keep that going.
I assume you didn't watch the video then? Because this is a very unusual game that due to its complexity i couldn't fit into our regular format, that was the whole point of the video. I spent so much time with this game and couldn't do it justice in 3 minutes. It is an anomaly, not a new norm. I already have finished 3 minute recaps for waterfall park, dorf-romantik and Dune ImperiumL uprising that will be coming out over the next few weeks.
In the first 30 seconds he explained that this was the rare game that required more time. What I appreciated was that in the first three minutes, he made it very clear that this was a specific game for a very specific type of player. From that point, I had the information I needed to decide whether I would be interested.
Cheers tommy. The first bit is to set the scene, the bulk of the video is for people who are interested and want to know more. Or who are just intrigued by how over the top it is.
If anyone is every curious about what we are working on, i have this public trello that shows exactly what's going on
trello.com/b/NTOjHZkj/3-minute-board-games
@@3MBG I watched until the setup ended... it's just that from the last 16 videos, almost half (7) are longer than 4 minutes. I appreciate your channel, and noticed a trend and on this video I decided to comment.
🤣~ too complex 😅just sum it up in a closing remark-smug tagline 😉 don't review really long games 😅 some channels don't cover certain themes / weight. We trust your taste.
Nah just play the video game.
Did you know the video game is an adaption of a board game, called Europa Universalis?
@@3MBG oh yeah, but this is literally torture for me to watch. Why subject yourself to that massive rule book when you could just enjoy the game. It’s to much to take in all at once, we have a saying in the community that it’ll take you 1,000 hours to finish the “tutorial”. That is because you will keep consistently making new discoveries about the game until then. And as someone who has 3,000 hrs I still make new discoveries but less consistently but with more surprise. The point is that all the issues you have with the game, controlling ai, player time commitment, and just wrapping your mind around the whole damn thing are a lot easier in the video game. And all the things that you like, missions, tech, religion, wars, events. Are all 10x deeper in the game. This board game is a lesser experience for double the effort.
The main difference, is I'm in a room with people i like having fun and not just staring at a screen. All board games have this, its the human element. I personally think you may be mistaking a different experience for a lesser one. And the awesome thing is just because one exists, it doesn't erase the other
@@3MBG I usually feel the same way. For something like gloomhaven I much prefer the board game over the digital experience because I like hanging out with my friends. But this is taking it to another level I would much rather load up a multiplayer game and start after 15 mins or a single player game and speed through the game. Ultimately it’s a lot easier to get a group together to play the video game than the game. You might have 4-5 opportunities in your whole life to play a 6 player game of this, And every weekend for the video game there is a 10 man multiplayer game going on over discord.
These games make no sense to me. Just play the PC game...
In person gaming is just a different experience. Playing 2 day long civilization games with 7 players back at university, something truly special. Certainly not for everyone, that's for sure. But being in front of a screen for 40 hours isn't everyones cup of tea either.
@@3MBG Playing a 7 player Empires in Arms campaign with a bunch of high school kids who don't know better is SUCH A MEMORABLE EXPERIENCE compared to anything on a PC. And I'm a dedicated PC gamer...