What the Waco Bodies Revealed About the Siege
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2020
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What can the dead tell us about this tragedy?
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**CREDITS**
Mortician: Caitlin Doughty
Producer & Writer: Louise Hung (@LouiseHung1)
Editor & Graphics: Landis Blair (@landisblair)
Additional Research: Remy Servis
This video was greatly informed by the book "A Journey to Waco: Autobiography of a Branch Davidian" by Clive Doyle with Catherine Wessinger and Matthew D. Wittmer. Thank you to the authors for the insight and earnestness.
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**SELECTED SOURCES**
A Journey to Waco: Autobiography of a Branch Davidian
Doyle, Clive; Wessinger, Catherine; Wittmer, Matthew D.
Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, 2012.
U.S. Department of Justice, Report to the Deputy Attorney General on the Events at Waco, Texas: February 28 to April 19, 1993, Introduction (1993), www.justice.gov/05publications...
List of Autopsy Reports: Provided by Justice of Peace, McLennan County, Precinct 2, provided to “Waco Remembrance” in 1995. www.web-ak.com/waco/death/map/...
"25 years after the Waco massacre, a DO remembers the fire and the victims"
thedo.osteopathic.org/2018/04...
"Waco: The Inside Story - Frequently Asked Questions About Waco"
www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...
"Interview Excerpts: Dr. Nizam Peerwani"
www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...
"Report: 3 were shot point-blank - But surviving cultists dispute autopsy findings"
wacotrib.com/news/branch_davi...
"Testimony Extract: Dr. Nizam Peerwani, Medical Examiner"
www.web-ak.com/waco/death/tscr...
"Sacred and Profane"
www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...
"The Waco Tragedy, explained"
www.vox.com/2018/4/19/1724673...
"Two Decades Later, Some Branch Davidians Still Believe"
www.npr.org/2013/04/20/178063...
"GRUESOME CONTEST TO RAISE DEAD LED TO KORESH'S TAKEOVER OF CULT"
www.washingtonpost.com/archiv...
"The sound of rabbits being tortured"
...where the FUCK did they get the recordings for that!? That's as equally disturbing as everything else!
Perhaps audio from routine "scientific" procedures forced on bunnies day in and day out, something the government requires and documents. You might scream too if someone smeared mascara into your eyes.
@@Sodylin I do damn near every morning😕
I thought the same....
Yeah let’s focus on that and not the fact my half brothers snd sisters were subject to the audio as a prelude to being drown in CS gas that burned into cyanide that had a clear presence in their unidentifiable corpses.
@@redotter4608 lol
"They escalated the situation instead of deescalating the situation." American law enforcement in one line.
they did deescalate the situation , hell they deescalated the whole building.
thank God I am in the UK
@@GhostvaperYT oi you got your commenting loicense
You nailed it. Sounds like our military too.
@@justcake2533 YES thanks not got it from EU now I am FREEEE #BREXIT
I'm 72 now and I remember this epic disaster. I also remember a report that was covered up a day or two after it came out. An arson specialist examined the burn site and was pretty sure fires were started at the rear entrances of the compound before the main assault by the atf began, This made it impossible to escape from the rear. The story was news for a day then disappeared.
Could be sensitionized fake news by some media, and then they got pulled down. Why would the govt purposely burn children to death? When they know the whole country was watching it live on tv? Use your logic here. This story is a fk up on all sides, and the media are milking it to this day.
ATF murdered those poor people
Interesting!
I was in my late 20s when this happened. I was stunned. It always seemed to me to be handled terribly. But what still haunts me is how many children died.
I was born later that year in September so I try to research as much as I can to learn more about it
You mean murdered by the commie government !
Janet Reno was a piece of work. Look up Elian Gonzales.
They killed the kids, not the government. They set the fire that killed them.
@@teresajeffries3934Bullshit
'They felt safer with Koresh than with the authorities' gee whatever gave them that idea, the wall of tanks?
My money's on the US customs officers.
I'd rather be on the side with the tanks
@@maddycheeze See only 6 US customs officer's?
They must have super powers or something?
Gotta get dem tax Dollars 💰💰💰💰💰
@@sirjamesonsmith161 You obviously didn't watch the video. Especially the part where they mentioned that if they gave themselves up to the authorities they'd be thrown in prison and their children torn away from them. Hmm....stay inside the compound with a guy I've trusted for years and keep my family OR run to the open arms of those tanks so I can go to prison for the *gasp* horrible crime of using my 2nd amendment right to keep weapons AND my family is ripped apart. Let me think on that decision.
The speakers blasting the sounds of dieing animals maybe
"Dead people can talk but only the coroner is able to understand what they say."
Science, people. It works!
Ehhh...who suggested that it didn't? ^^;;
:/
Grissom: CSI Las Vegas.
OK where do I begin?
in order, .....
"only the coroner is able to understand what they say"
This is an incorrect statement, there are many good detectives out there, along with doctors and lawyers, and others that can "read" a corpse. And you do realize that many a "coroner" and "medical examiner" makes many mistakes. Indeed, on this very channel, the lovely, talented, and knowledgeable Caitlin Doughty has pointed this out including the fact that in some places it don't take much to be employed as an ME and many lack full qualifications and make huge mistakes.
Now about this "S" word that keeps getting thrown around,
"science"
We all need to be careful with this. Science is just another word for knowledge.
It is NOT wisdom, nor is it understanding.
You can have knowledge (AKA science) without understanding.
You can have understanding, without wisdom.
There are three things you need to know about science
1: it's repeatable
2: it's verifiable
3: it's falsifiable
To go a little further there is the scientific method of learning, which is; Observe, Theorize, and Attempt to prove. And the benchmark of science is Repeatability.
But science, like religion and politics, can be used to push an agenda or an ideal or a conclusion that was jumped to in order to serve a specific person or group rather than all.
Did you know that science is a scriptural word and occurs in both the Old and New Testament?
Bonus round;
and what is wisdom?
It is the PRACTICAL and useful application of knowledge and understanding.
Conclusion: Here's another idiot trying to downplay legitimate science and even learning itself, and one more example of why this country is so far behind.
Koresh was wanted on weapons charges. He jogged around the area every day but was never moved on. When he was inside the compound was when they decided to assault it. The FBI and Janet Reno was fully responsible for these deaths. Side note - I guy who worked for me was Janet Reno's nephew. She was his mothers sister.
The weapons charges werent even legit
He was in town either that day or the day before.
Same with the ATF's recent murder of Bryan Malinowki in Little Rock. ATF's death squad showed up to serve a 'search warrant' and realized nobody was home, so they kept driving. Once the guy was home, 10 car loads of militarized hit men showed up at 6am, cut the power to the house and taped over his ring doorbell cam before kicking his door in.... for a 'search warrant'. He woke up to a dark house and a living room full of shadowy figures so he fired a shot off. Of course, they opened fire. Not a single member of the government death squad was wearing a body camera. The unsurprising presser that went out today, none of them will be charged!
"Search warrant". Couldn't kick his door in and "search" unless he was home. It was an obvious organized execution.
First and foremost, thank you for covering this with empathy for the victims. Oh mercy, watching this all brought it back. Regardless of one's stance on this, you cannot deny that this was a military siege laid on these citizens.
As you've mentioned David Koresh would walk into town, he wasn't a stranger and was quite well known. And this is another point of contention when focusing on how law enforcement dealt with this: why wasn't he approached by law officials and simply have been granted a discussion, or more so, if they had the evidence for grounds of arrest, why not then, if he was innocent then the charges would be dropped. Again, They Knew David.
This was a field day for the media, and I'll never forget Janet Reno and her updates on the situation. You would watch this on the news and witness the escalation day by day, so when the armored vehicles arrived that's when it was apparent: This was war.
Men, and women, and most tragically, children died horrible deaths on that day. I stand unwavering in my belief that this should not have reached this conclusion. I'll end on this : Yes, there were incendiary devices used which led to fires, and given the reality that the government issued a report and stated this marked their duplicity.
The presence of the Children alone should have been enough to require a very different approach.
It’s a very odd thing...I remember most of the hub-bub about this Koresh guy was that he was abusing the children and that’s why the government had to go in there. That’s what the media hype was to try and gain support from the public against this man and the “cult”. There was other things like stockpiling guns, but it was the idea that children were being abused that won the public’s support.
Then they just barge on in there, as if the children being abused in there don’t really matter at all. Kids die. All this just reeks of there being other reasons why there was a siege. Much of what we were told ended up not being really the case at all.
@Scapegoat 1. Clearly he had a different understanding of "child" and keeping children safe than most of us. (Texas law is comparatively permissive as it states that a 14 year old can be married with parental permission - and yet he married a 10 year old)
Korean was using them for many reasons. The parents were also to blame . They made disgusting decisions
He was a nasty piece of garbage.
Wrong .. David made the decision to keep them as hostages. He saw women and children as property. He was a pedophile .
I went to college for Emergency Management. Waco is a prime case of how to NOT handle a hostage situation or really any tense situation.
I agree that they shouldn't have done anything that could start a fire, but if they hadn't have tried tear gas at all, then the siege may have continued until the Branch Davidians starved to death.
@@greywolf7577 the tear gas was to flush them out but they used so much that kids suffocated and the gas ignited, burning anyone who didn't suffocate alive
I'm sure that Emergency management is not in the field of dealing with cults. Thanks for playing dumb ass.
"Hostage" They were doing their own thing no problem till the gunfire started.
OMG I love EM! I got to get licenses and certs when getting my fire tech degree. Definitely a ton to learn! Did you ever get to do Urban Shield if you are on the west coast of CA, USA?
I'm staggered at how wrong my impression of the Waco siege was. It was big news in the UK, and the only thing I remember about the coverage was the constant lampooning of David Koresh. It's horrific and shameful what happened, and the followers of Koresh who were obviously very vulnerable people were treated like animals. Thanks again, Caitlin. Always informative and entertaining, and whatever the video, your wit and empathy always shines through.
Google: Randy Weaver, Ruby Ridge
@@donaldoehl7690 yup. I followed Bo Gritz as well as a local DJ in my small town who had direct contact with the davidians.
Ron Engleman. He had the best info available. Small station. KPYK in east texas.
I'm from the UK as well. One thing which stands out in my memory is a story about Scotland Yard criticsing the ATF and FBI for how Waco was handled - which was very unusual. I think it was prompted by the deaths of so many UK citizens, some children, by what they perceived as a throughly mishandled and botched operation.
I found the following article from 1995:
"British detective scornful of raid at Waco - THE raid which started the 51-day siege at a religious cult's headquarters in Waco, Texas, failed because of inept planning, flawed intelligence, and a lack of subterfuge, according to a senior British policeman. The inquest into the 23 Britons who died heard a scathing criticism yesterday of the whole operation from Detective Chief Inspector Albert Yates. He told the Manchester hearing there were no contingency plans made and the senior planners of the federal bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Communications failed as 76 heavily-armed officers raided the Mount Carmel compound of the Branch Davidian cult headed by David Koresh.
The operation on February 28, 1993, was supposed to be ''highly sensitive'', yet the ATF had booked 153 rooms in three local hotels for the night following the raid. ''It shows there was really not a great deal of subterfuge going into the planning of this operation,'' said Mr Yates, who headed a team from Greater Manchester Police which
investigated the events."
@@donaldoehl7690I came here to say this. Both were extremely unavoidable and heartbreaking.
It’s funny how even back then the late night shows were pushing the deep state narrative.
Thank you for making this video. One of the many gruesome details is that the refrigerated truck used to store the bodies after the fire was mysteriously unplugged and the bodies had been left to rot for a few days in the Texas heat before they reached the coroner's office. Also, a good number of people when autopsied had no smoke in their lungs, indicating that they had died before the fire had started. This was mass slaughter by sadistic psychopaths who remain at large, collecting generous federal pensions at this point.
Seriously. Get help. Tinfoil and all.
@@Rugelacharugula you obviously dont know what happened at waco if you think what this man is saying is crazy
@@NewageEggnog of course I do! It was aliens! Or laptops! It coronavirus manufactured in Benghazi! Sorry. I don’t get my news off 4chan from mom’s basement.
You're the one who needs help. You clearly need some form of assistance in making judgement calls. @@Rugelacharugula
“it’s 1993 and I don’t know what a CZcams video is and boy am I better for it” literally felt cathartic to hear
I loved that😂 its so authentic😍😂
Cool
...and the vinyl...HOT!!
On a side not Im living for 90s newscaster Caitlyn and hope she appears again in the future.
The irony of most of us totally identifying with that statement, which we heard b/c we were WATCHING a YT video is enough to keep sociologists, behaviorists, & others who study contemporary societies busy for decades. We are so addicted.
If the goal was to arrest Koresh, all they had to do was wait for him to go on his morning jog... which he did *outside the compound.* The local sheriffs could have done the job, using 2 cars and 4 deputies.
if they presented a crime, Koresh would have likely turned himself in.
That wouldn't have been a media frenzy to keep the rest of the country in line though ;)
They could have arrested Koresh when he went shopping for steaks at HEB, if a simple arrest was all they wanted, but this was the Clinton administration’s attempt at a show of force designed to intimidate any and all who opposed them.
@@garythehorseshoer Reno wanted to have a big raid on somebody, so she could showcase it in her request for a huge increase in funding and transfer of military assets to the 3 letter agencies.
I'm actually a retired police officer from Central Texas. I personally knew David Koresh. What the ATF dead was that they fed right into his mania. When all the shooting took place the ATF and the Branch davidians call the McLennan county sheriff's department. The McLennan county sheriff Jack Harwell got a ceasefire between the two over the telephone. Let me reiterate that sheriff Jack Harwell was so well respected by the Branch davidians that they quit shooting because he asked them to over the phone! The morning that they went to pull off the raid they got one of the local reporters named John McLemore to go out and record this. John McLemore could not find the branch of any compound so he stops one of the local postman and ask him where the Branch davidian compound is. When the man asked why do you want to know John McLemore said the ATF is about to run a big warrant on the compound and I'm going to report on it. That postman was David Koresh's brother-in-law!!!!
The ATF had an undercover agent in the compound who left and notified his superiors that their cover was blown into call it off and they still went. The ATF fed straight into David quresh's apocalyptic mania. Now as for the fire the fires were started by the davidians themselves. The bugs we put on the crates that we took in to the compound recorded everything. As human nature is they picked up some of the crates and took them to other parts of the building so we can hear just about every room what was going on. David koresh personally ordered Steve Smith his second in command to set the fires. Steve came back and David ordered him to shoot him in the head. David was too much of a coward to do with himself. As for how armed they were there was a mob Deuce 50 cal on a tripod and 10,000 rounds of hand polish linked ammo. The first day we started counting individual rounds and then 12 hours got nowhere. The second day we started counting 5 gallon buckets full of ammo for 12 hours and still got nowhere! The third day we knocked down one of the walls to the so-called bunker and we used a bobcats bucket and it still took several hours. All of this could have been avoided every single life could have been saved had the ATF had the common courtesy to notify the local sheriff's department whose jurisdiction they were in that they were going to be running this high risk warrant on the compound. The Branch davidian compound was not new to any local law enforcement everyone knew they're end of the worldview on things. The ATF at the time was being run by businessman instead of lawman and they had to account for a great expenditure in new weapons and other technical hardware. That's why Ruby ridge and Waco happened!!!
Thanks for re-visiting this. It is good to be reminded of this event, whatever your personal faith or attitudes or beliefs.
I am amazed at the sensitivity of the commentator. Thankyou Caitlan
I was once upon a time many years ago now a Mortician..... Recently my daughter drove 200 miles to visit me.... Once of the first things she said to me was, Dad there's a Mortician lady you would be interested in watching on CZcams.... She said she watches it all the time.... I said you mean Caitlin?.... She said yeah, how did you know,,,,, I said because I watch her all the time....
This is so cuuuuuuute!!!!
Wholesome
As a cult survivor, I don’t agree with avoiding labeling groups like these cults. It minimizes the amount of behavioral, emotional, information, and thought control and the pain of leaving the group and often your whole community behind.
That being said, labeling it a cult is NOT an excuse for the government to torture and step all over these people’s rights and essentially murder them. If the last few months has taught me anything, it’s that the government needs to be held to higher standards for how they treat all citizens. They don’t know how to deescalate, only bring violence.
Agreed and well said.
100% This^ This is a cult, but in NO WAY does that justify any of this. These people were victims x2 of the cult, and of the FBI and force used. Though we should certainly humanize the victims in these situations. :(
i couldn’t have said it better myself - honestly i think the whole avoiding calling what this fringe religion what it is, a cult, is a tactic being used by the woman running this channel (and something done by ytubers in general) to avoid being demonetized and / or alienating parts of their audience. i’ve noticed that youtubers that speak the truth about controversial topics such as this without mincing words tend to get demonetized more often than channels that like to play niceties and not address these types of things at all. or it could be them being uncomfortable with calling it a cult because of their own personal feelings behind it.
THE most terrifying phrase from another human being is... "I'm here from the government to help you."
No... just no, you are NOT helping anyone. ;o)
gnarth d'arkanen well, from the police yeah. But if that government worker is from child protective services. Imagine you were a kid that was being sexually assaulted. I’m sure that hearing somebody from the government say that they are going to help you would be some of the most wonderful words. It’s unfortunate that the children at Waco were never given the opportunity to be free.
Waco and Ruby Ridge. Two names that should never be forgotten in history.
Yep. Waco was full of groomers.
And our government tried to make a psychopath who posed for a trophy hunter type pic in front of their smoldering bodies the ATF’s director. The ATF did an amazing job of rescuing the victims.
@@Wolfpak765 "Why didn't they just comply"?
@@jimmiller5600 one of the saddest aspects of this situation is the way the feds used character assassination of David Koresh and others in the house, by fabricating stories about child abuse, and so many people just bought the lie
@@jimmiller5600 yes, outside, with the tanks.
Back in the day, individual coroner photos of every charred corpse was openly available online. I don’t know if they’re still out there.
As a cult survivor it’s really relieving and refreshing to hear how you talk about them and their victims, with empathy. It’s usually very lonely hearing people discuss cults, but this video felt very sensitive and kind to the victims. Thank you Caitlin.
The members of the cult are not bad because they are in the cult. The cult leader is the one making the bad decision. In this case they werent planning on harming anyone. They weren't even planning a suicide. They were just trying to live their lives. I hope you are doing well. I'm glad you made it out.
She's not alone--I address the story of the Peoples Temple with the same amount of empathy & compassion.
Thank you so much. Your comment made me tear up. I was born into mormonism, and it fucked me up for life.
I've known people in milder cults & they were really good people that were just trying to fill something they felt was missing in life & the cult leaders were the evil ones who brainwashed & used them to their own ends. I'm glad to here about survivors & I hope you & all the others have & will get the peace & help they need.
@@kokepasu4583 SAME. Glad we both made it out. *fistbump*
The siege at Waco was horribly handled. So many lives lost for no reason.
So badly handled. It's like the Feds threw out every rule they swore to uphold.
I have been accused of being a small government extremist, but I think this story in particular shows why the ATF, FBI and CIA should not exist.
R Colorado Yeah the FBI and the CIA should not exist, what a brilliant idea you got there, you got any idea who should be replacing em to do all the intelligence work, all the dirty work to keep the US’s place as the top dog of this planet?
@@z54964380 The US has ceased being the top dog! That privilege goes to Germany and France!
fredrika27 Last time I checked the US is still the most powerful country on this planet period , both militarily and economically, I dunno where ya got ya idea from
This was both fascinating and respectful. I remember this quite well, as i graduated from HS in 85. I remember being so upset regarding the government's handling of this situation. They were civilians afterall.
interesting, I find it disrespectful, but I suppose my expectations are different because of my identity. Unfortunately my cussing and oversensitivity over the subject have silenced my inputs.
An absolutely outstanding presentation! My congratulatons on your research, and delivery of the information!
"[The authorities] escalated the situation instead of deescalating it." *Shocked Pikachu face*
@GALMA 0 Yes, because peaceful protesters and reporters just doing their job are totes the same as criminals. Let's gas 'em all and let racism and police brutality rain supreme! /s
Nice try, troll lol.
This whole mess did not have to happen....period.! The ATF had a warrent(s) for Koresh a month or two before the raid. Koresh would drive into town once or twice a week. He could have easily been snagged without any drama and there were plenty of opportunities to grab him. But, the ATF had just put together a SWAT team and the ATF bosses were eager to use it.
So they planned out this massive raid on the compound to try out their new toy. The ATF brass all the way up the chain are totally responsible for this fiasco. Not just the dead & wounded Davidians but also the dead & wounded ATF agents. The Clinton Administration went into full coverup mode and you know the results.
Another point I want to make is about the affidavit for application of the search warrant. I've read the entire thing and cannot believe a judge didn't question it much less sign it giving it his blessing. The affidavit is so full of leaps of imagination, convoluted connections of "facts", hearsay and third hand "information"(rumors actually), its just pathetic and shocking.
I know in my dept you'd never skate by doing such a sloppy affidavit, especially if anyone got hurt or falsely accused. I would've been lucky to just have been fired. But the Feds, especially the FBI don't feel they have to answer to anyone for their abuses of power. As we have seen the past year or so, nothing has changed at the FBI.
@GALMA 0 Protestors aren't rioters. Your stormtroopers are agents of oppression. Quit watching Faux "News"
@GALMA 0 And you accept jackbooted thugs acting out bc they are neither trained, or professional enough to deal with crowd control in a fashion that doesn't lead to protesters acting out. It's not just the front line cops that cause this. When command authorities disrespect people with legitimate beefs it rapidly gets out of control and that's when stuff gets broken and burned. "Respect Ma Authoratay" isn't gonna work on people that have been shit on for decades.
GALMA 0 - You’re exactly the type of person who would’ve cheered at the sight of protesters getting beaten and blasted with fire hoses during the Civil Rights Movement. It’s a shame that people like you still walk the earth.
The FBI handled this like absolute monsters
Just as they did the miners in Colorado
@@kayagyft2049 Yes they are and one of the Texas Rangers that was there that day, I have spoken with and he's a complete idiot and now a sherriff imagine that.
Yes and David having a ten year bride makes him not a monster? Both sides were wrong.
@@terichapman8293 He just pointed out that the FBI's actions are indefensible, when did he say David was a saint?
Teri Chapman Sad for everyone that died with him. Some of them were victims.
This was the best coverage of Waco I've ever heard. Really love your channel and how you cover these stories! So original!❤
Your intellectual rigor and honest fair-mindedness inspire a lot of respect Caitlin.
Feel like the event should be renamed to "The Waco Massacre" in my opinion because that's literally what it was.
It has been called that since the buildings burned. Just not by the main stream media.
I first heard of it under that name.
That’s the name I was taught; massacre
I live in Waco. The compound wasn’t even in Waco. You have to drive for a while into the country to get there. Waco is a busy town.
I have only heard it referred to it as such.
"The buildings collapsed because of poor build quality"
Well, I mean, I think my house would collapse if someone drove a tank through it too.
😂
Not necessarily. A strongly built structure can remain standing even if a vehicle, including a tank, is driven through the wall. Just Google "car drives into building" and you will see many examples of cars punching large holes in walls and the building stays up. I know, you said tank, but my point remains. A tank would knock a larger hole in the wall but still not large enough to collapse an entire building.
The buildings in the compound were not built to specifications as required by code, and were not inspected. Much of the work was done by uncertified crews who used substandard materials. THAT is the reason the buildings collapsed, and it's also the reason they burned so fiercely and the fire spread so quickly. They were huge fire traps and would have eventually burned completely down even if the raid never happened.
@@slayer8actual Have multiple tanks make multiple holes in a building's bottom floor and see what happens. 😂
@@slayer8actual This wasn't a car though. It had much more mass, plus the arm that was tearing away at the walls.
as it was burning 😢 bad building!
I have one question... Why didn't the ATF wait patiently for David to make his routine trip to town to serve the warrant
One of the best analyses of the Waco seige I've ever heard. Would love to hear you cover Ruby Ridge. That is another one that has always bothered me.
I'm just gonna say, I'd probably feel safer staying in the compound too when faced with 16 tanks and almost 900 people with guns pointed at me knowing they're looking for any reason to shoot
Plus they had rules for the kids against eating candy and soda, gave them healthy stuff. So when they sent out a bunch of kids, what does the FBI do? Sends them video tapes of the kids eating candy and soda and tells the parents they are going to take their kids away forever.
@@rottytherottski522 Wait, what?
@@3nertia yeah that’s a thing, they really messed with the parents. Just look at accounts from people who were there. One of the few survivors wrote a book on it after everything happened, he was one of the ones who wasn’t arrested.
@@rottytherottski522 :(
Actually, I'd say this is a lot like a shooter at a high school. In those cases, all of the kids come out, hands up, and are escorted to buses. In this case, the actual appropriate response (to my mind) would have been for all of them to come out, hands up, single file, and let them take them to whatever place the ATF and FBI had wanted to take them. Once they had been inspected and not found carrying weapons - there would not have been anything they could have charged them with. The NRA would probably have gotten a lawyer for them to help protect their right to bear arms. Now - they probably would have charged David Koresh and maybe other leaders, but the vast majority of the people would then have been free to return to the compound. As I have already said - the men thought with what was between their legs rather than their heads.
No one earns their sponsorship money quite like Catlyn
So true! Unfortunately I already have an Audible subscription (10/10, highly recommended!), otherwise I would have been the first to get my trial!
Wish more people did it like she does. She incorporated all her adverts to make part of her video!
If you like wacky sponsorship ads, Jay Foreman is great ;)
Oh! And she's on an episode of Midnight Gospel! Her voice sounded so familiar, I died when I saw her face in the credits online. She's so amazing.
Except for The Lion Whisperer who seriously earns every penny. Caitlyn is fascinating. Kev is my zen space to know their is goodness in the world. Yin and Yang.
Omg, your narrative is so informative..I never watched all this, so I appreciative of your info. Thank you, so much
Thank you for your detail look at this event. You did a great time. Richard Brown
“It is unknown who started the fire. The only thing authorities know is it was not Billy Joel.”
Obviously it had to be Ryan.
It was always burning
😂😂😂👏🏻
Well, Joel *said* he was an innocent man.
He claimed it was always burning since the world was turning.
it was the prodigy!
Imagine being a child and hearing the sound of rabbits being tortured after seeing dead bodies strewn about
absolutely horrendous 😞
I don't even wanna know how they got those sounds on recording.
The trauma...
@@IMadeAThingOKC Same like the music I understand but the rabbit thing was DEEPLY unnerving
and then being burned alive
I always appreciate your in depth videos. Thank you
This was really truly informative and I've seen several videos on Waco so thank you so much
It's even worse when you realise that the "authorities" could have detained david on one of his daily runs around the town. But they decided to go for the full compound siege after to make them selves look better after the Ruby ridge "incident" where they shot a mother and child
Janet Reno in charge of both. Ppl like that make you really hope Hell is real 🙏
@@rekietabeatslc9980 we should let god judge them. So let's arrange the meeting.
ya, they had an axe de grind and they wanted to make an example of them.
Yeah, and this time, they shot a lot of mothers and children instead of just one of each. Total idiots!
Actually, the ATF and FBI (and others) were told to leave them alone as long as they did not break the law. So that was what they were trying to do but too many guns, too many itchy fingers, and people who thought with what was between their legs rather than their heads caused what happened.
You should do a video on the bodies of Chernobyl.
Agree
Yes
Goodness yesss
Yes please!
Fuck yes! Ahhh! Please do!
Appreciate the honest and respectful explanation.
You did a fantastic job with this video. Thank you.
When we did this in Sociology my teacher started the unit with "Brace yourself this ones a mess".
My world religions prof said the same thing
@Amy Sternheim was that the one with the actor from wings
@ Knave, That is because your "professor" is probably a card carrying member of the communist party and was too busy indoctrinating you and keeping you from knowing the actual facts. It was murder, call it what it was, the FBI and ATF murdering a bunch of innocent women and children. Your professor must be so proud.
@ maranda, It was a shit show by the government, maybe you should look at more evidence or study up on what happened at Waco. Most professors are liberal progressive stooges for the record, not all but most are. SJW types might call it progressive or socialist, we call it what it really is...Communism. You see the little commies running all over setting things on fire right now, and where did they learn this? Public schools and liberal indoctrination centers, aka Universities and so called "learning" institutions. The good news is now that all the mask wearing Covidiots have taken over at least the children are not being indoctrinated. See there is always a silver lining to every cloud.
@@faithismespeaks6848 Ah, yes, the old standby: "Universities are just Marxist indoctrination centers". Someone learned communism was scary from their daddy and never bothered to study socialism or socialist democracies. There are many instances where socialist models have worked well (including some systems in the US: Shocker!). That doesn't fit the conservative narrative though, so you ignore it.
The best part of all this is the irony of an indoctrinated Christian speaking negatively about indoctrination, while ignoring their own.
"Loud music such as Nancy Sinatra's 'these boots are made for walking' and the sound of rabbits being tortured"
THAT ESCALATED VERY QUICKLY
It would continue to...
Why would they even HAVE sounds of rabbits being tortured? Who tortured the rabbits and why? Forget Waco, I want to know about the rabbits!
@@linasayshush i know, right?
I bet Nancy was not happy with her music being used that way.
@@Tweej Ariana Grande's high notes!
I love your stories and how you approach sensitive subject. Love you ❤
Was always curious about this. Great insights. Thank you.
Imagine trying to escape a burning building that’s being knocked down by tanks, after being tear gassed
...but...but..but....it was all about saving the children....sigh
Makes it very easy to see how the victims believed it was the coming of Babylon in the last days
A tear gas that is flammable at high concentrations in a building they knocked the power out of so everyone was using candles to see........
Also, don't forget agent Lon Horiuchi was just outside the back door with orders to shoot anyone trying to escape from there. Over a dozen people died there
Tear gas first via tanks that tore holes into compound
Pyrotechnic canisters fired into the compound, igniting CS gas
Two shooters killing escapees
I'm still caught up on how sad it is that that mother really thinks her baby is coming back. That is awful.
I'm more disturbed that any parallel was drawn between that and David Koresh. Whatever that woman's church believes, that was clearly the desperate plea of a mother unable to accept her child's death and Koresh was claiming that he personally could resurrect the dead at will most likely knowing full well that he could not. A list of groups that believe in resurrection would have sufficed.
Cults are cults, even though their threat to the safety of their people may vary. Faith healers are a toxic and dangerous lot. Check out the way they suck money from the already impoverished in places like Nigeria.
@@adde9506 A list of groups that believe in resurrection is basically all religions though, especially Christianity. The whole basis of that faith is that Jesus rose from the dead and one day he will make all the dead rise to face 'final judgement'.
@@adde9506 That same desperate plea her church believes in is the same desperate want for immortality that the Waco people believed in. Her beliefs are the same as the people of Waco. Belief in resurrection is the same across the board, and no matter what, it's not a healthy belief to hold onto.
i was keeping tabs on the whole situation as it was happening and yes, it was really fkn sad. like i cant imagine what kind of mental toll that kind of thinking takes. just goes to show that even tho cult members do some really fkd up, disrespectful shit (like trying to revive a kid), theyre victims too. 99% of the time, members genuinely think theyre doing whats good and right and we cant really hate them for that imo. theyre brainwashed and confused.
Catlin you are awesome, I started watching an could not stop. Thank you, I am 67 now, I watched live on tv. I line in Arlington Texas, about an hours drive to Waco.
You are a phenomenal story teller! Totally addicted to your content.
I have a bit of an obscure story that you might be interested in. The true story of Fet-Mats - The Petrified Man. He is a perfect fit for an Iconic Corpse but hasn't gotten much attention on the internet. To my knowledge you'd be the first English speaking youtuber to cover it.
In 1719, a young miner was found dead underneath some rubble deep inside the Falun copper mine in Sweden. From the way he looked he couldn't have been dead for more than a couple of days, but none of the other workers recognized him.
He was brought up to the surface where the word was spreading about the unknown corpse and a large crowd gathered to identify the young man. That's when an old woman suddenly exclaimed "But that's my Mats, it's my fiancé!".
As it turns out, the body belonged to Mats "Fet-Mats" Israelsson who had gone missing a whole 42 years earlier! His body had been perfectly preserved by the vitriol (copper sulfate) found inside the mine. Fet-Mats, now rock hard from being exposed to the open air, was promptly put on display as the "Petrified Man".
However, he started to decay as the layer of vitriol covering him slowly evaporated. He was buried under the floor of Stora Kopparberg Church after 30 years of being on display. Even then they wouldn't let him rest.
First he was moved into the cemetery in 1816, and then again in 1862. This time his bones ended up in a wooden box in the attic of the church where they just forgot about him. He was rediscovered in the year 1900 during a renovation and, once again, wound up on display for another 30 years.
In 1930, over 250 years after his death, he was buried for the last time... hopefully.
😮
Adds whole neweaning to the phrase "coppertone tan" - he was tanned into leather by the copper.
Thiiiiis!!!!!
I really hope Caitlin sees this comment & does a video about what happened.
I have to rewind the video now i got so into reading this. Awesome.
They could have arrested him any time before the stand off. He jogged past the FBI surveilance house across the road every day and often went into town. The killing of all of them was in my opinion was unessessary.
Once his arrest was officially called for Howell never left his baby fucking armed compound. You are lying, Brad.
@@williardbillmore5713 So how would he know his arrest was called for. Did the observation post across the road put up a big sign or did he have a mole in Gov. Think it through. The FBI doesn't telegraph their intentions.
@@williardbillmore5713 They had the ability to detain Koresh for questioning at any point because of reasonable suspicion. Warrants aren't mayflies, they don't have to be served as soon as issued. There were tactical options, but the ATF in the 90s had a very wide lack of accountability and one of the more onerous legacies of this and the previous year's completely overzealous use of multijurisdictional law enforcement as well as a civilian deputized posse to serve a bench warrant for failure to appear on a charge deemed to be entrapment was the radicalization of groups within the United States. That persists to this day, and spawned the douche canoe who with another person conspired to and successfully did blow up a federal building in OKC, amongst other grim highlights.
I agee. The killing *was* unnecessary.
Had Howell gone peacefully when arrested by ATF that morning at his front door, and allowed the compound to be lawfully searched honoring the warrants, not one single person would have been killed.
Not one.
The ATF were doing their jobs and had full jurisdiction over some of the laws Howell was brazenly committing.
Howell knew that with what he had been doing with the fully automatic weapons, the children and the explosives, he would never see the outside of a prison again for the rest of his life.
His decision to take everyone of his followers he could with him with guns blazing was the act of what he called himself.
"The Madman of Waco".
It is a shame that ATF didn't put a round in Howell's head that morning
Mcveigh was just another madman whose actions were completely unjustified. Just like Howell.
The world is a much better place with both of them dead. Don't you agree, Kevin?
@@williardbillmore5713 By the extension of that logic, we could justify the use of deadly force to other unjustified actions. Instead of letting a bunch of federal criminals return to their homes after laying siege to the Capitol, they could have started dropping bodies. Evidence makes it clear they were intent on causing harm to the Vice President and members of Congress and were willing to injure hundreds of officers to try and prevent Congress from executing a duty that is mandated by the Constitution. However, it becomes a bit of a Tienanmen Square moment and whether it be trespassing on federal property with weapons to attempt a coup or sporadic violence, arson, and property damage, the idea is that as a first-world nation we're better than a policy of "kill them all and let God sort them out" in all relevant examples. This is why the Bill of Rights has a ton of instructions on the rights of the accused but only prescribes capital punishment for actual treason [and not the heavy misuse of the word treason when people mean sedition or disloyalty].
Good work 👏. A very well done video. Too the point and honest.
This is so fascinating. Thanks, Caitlin!!
I learned so much more about the leader and the group. I recall seeing the standoff on tv but there was so much more to it.
Imagine being a child in that building.
That is genuinely, 100% inexcusable to me.
Their life was horrible either way. Option A...be controlled & possibly sexually assaulted by a cult leader. Option B...be tortured & murdered by the US government. This entire situation was trash, from beginning to end.
@@mcdougalvalentine5801 Option C: Find a way to get them out of there. Which they unfortunately didn't even seem to attempt.
@@mcdougalvalentine5801 we still dunno if he was a cult leader
When you step even farther back, you recognize the Human-Farm this country really is.
Belief is a dangerous weapon. I wouldn’t be surprised if there just weren’t any adults willing to take them on.. that one comment up there is telling. Humanity is broken. Like a cultural sink of sorts.
“We don’t want to kill themselves”
*kills them all*
“Well at least they didn’t kill themselves”
Read about police shooting & killing a guy holding a knife. To his own throat. Threatening suicide.
This was well done thank you.
Brilliantly Done! Thank you
Point of clarification: Jonestown was also not a mass suicide. People were held at gun point that day, they begged for their lives.
Yes! The audio is chilling.
it was a mass suicide tho. even tho a lot were held at gunpoint, there were still a good chunk who were willling. but yeah, either way, super fucked up and horrifying
It was a mass suicide AND a mass murder. Some went willingly, some did not. The part that horrifies and sickens me most is the children. I've heard the audio, and until I saw the George Floyd video, I didn't think I'd ever see/hear anything that would make me feel any worse.
Just because not all 900+ people died because they voluntarily drank the Flavor-Aid doesn't mean the event as a whole wasn't a mass suicide. The vast majority of those people DID willingly drink it. They were true believers, literally to the very end.
Beg to differ. Some were killed at gun point but the majority drank the Kool Aid by their own volition.
The WakeUpOlive campaign is so sad. That woman was so desperate for her daughter
Oh god that poor angel. :(
I heard that and felt so horrible for her... i hope she’s been able to grieve properly since
Yeah that’s all I could feel too and while I’ve never experienced that kind of loss, I can only imagine the pain. Anything, any hope, to get her baby back.
It struck my heart with sadness
Religious indoctrination is so sad. I'm not religious, I prefer to deal in the real world.
Thank you for a balanced and respectful presentation. This is a sensitive and painful event in Adventist history. Well done.
You just come up on my feed.
You are brilliant love your videos
When your videos about death are a welcomed relief from reality
Yes ❤
*too true* 😅
Nelva commenting another 👍 because this needs it
Yas!
Amen
Okay, but who the hell has rabbit torture noises on hand?
Ya no shit! WTF 🤔😂
The United States government
@@ricecristi I was going to say the exact same thing , terrifying truly
ricecristi you stole my comment
Morgan StarChild my dad is retired FBI, they’re a weird group of people. It’s definitely a personality type. You have to be the kind of person that would shoot a kid/baby and then sleep fine after. I’m amazed they didn’t use something like sheep or goats being killed, those suckers really scream. But I’m sure they have those tapes on deck too 😒🤮
Well done and heart fully presented…. Thank you
Always interesting info!
I remember watching it on TV as a child. My parents straight up told me that the people were killed by the government. My mother even cried about the children. So, the media didn't really convince the public all that well.
Except the cult leader helped
@@Cynnas The ATF started the media circus/siege because their budget was about to be cut. They figured an event that made their agents look like heroes would guarantee an increase. So all those kids died to protect some government jobs.
Everyone with a sensitive background a good upbringing - that hasn't somehow become insensitive to recurrent violence in the news - would cry and think about the innocents. And there aint more so than children.
Same thing here. My family watched that with horror. Even though we did believe Koresh was NOT a good guy, we also believed the federal agents seriously escalated the situation in a horrific way when they could've deescalated it and prevented all those deaths. The loss of those children was especially heart-wrenching.
@@dawnt6791 My thoughts exactly
Gov't: We are the good guys.
Ppl: Ahhh, yes, clearly. We could tell by the sounds of bunny torture.
Don't forget that this was a time before synthesizers & such. They HAD to have recordings made from the actual torture of the animals in the first place to play.... (sad thoughts...)
@@lesliedeana5142 I watched a video recently about rabbits on an angora fur farm somewhere in Asia. It was one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard. They don't just kill the rabbits. They rip the fur out, let it grow back, rip it out again. The rabbit screams were much more disturbing that the clip Caitlyn played. Folks, don't buy angora or any type of material made from the suffering of animals. There are synthetic alternatives to keep you warm. Try to always know where the products you buy come from & what humans & animals suffered to get them to you. If we thought about that, we'd all support smaller, ethical companies & would just consume less. Thanks.
@@lesliedeana5142 Synthesizers have been around since the 1960's.
@@DonnaBrooks I thought the movie with the Queen having sex with Emma Stone where she stepped on her rabbit to make it scream scarred me I can't remember the name of that gem of a movie, your comment scarred me. I like rabbits more than I like humans.
Seen Kevin Shipp's videos?
czcams.com/play/PL7gVhPMGKsTYSK9MwIFVjm6KVSb73j-hc.html
He is a former CIA officer. Our government has been a hot mess. I think I have to pass seeing whatever you are talking about feeling way too fragile for that.🐇🐰🐾🐾🐇☠
Anyhow, I think I'm going to watch something to get the screaming bunnies out of my head. That part will now forever be linked to Nancy Santeria and a song I once liked. I need our government to stop DJing.
@@DonnaBrooks oh, and the synthetics are also a problem ecowise. Pollution wise. Playlist has more details I popped in the previous comment.*
Extremely informative and interesting. Thanks
Thank you for this video.
The feds could've handled Waco a LOT better. It was a mess.
The feds cant handle ANYTHING.They are a mess
Feds love having their ego trips.
I believe it was deliberate to make an example to other groups similar the the Davidians.
@@redXmamba It wasn't an ego trip. It was a calculated move to show that you cannot defy government authority. You either submit or perish.
@@PsRohrbaugh That's an ego trip. Screw them. You know they enjoyed doing it.
I know you said you don’t cover extremist groups, but I think covering the bodies of Jonestown victims would really help people better understand that whole situation. A lot of the media calls them brainwashed people that “drank the coolaid” and voluntarily committed suicide. However, a lot of the survivors reported people being forced to drink the poison, injected with it against their will, being shot etc. I just think a video covering that would help humanize the victims. Love the channel ❤️
Yeah, it was definitely more of a mass murder than a mass suicide. The children alone warrant that.
Jones and his planning commission were evil, vile people. They were mostly skinny white brunette women. Jones used them, got them pregnant, made most get abortions.
They would vote for suicide while others blew it off.
The average Jonestown resident wanted an even break. Many were poor blacks and poor whites who found a community that let them take care of others and be taken care of by others.
Jones had his "security force" surround them. These creepos had guns, crossbows and bows. Some were shot with guns and arrows. Most were poisoned.
Some took the poison by choice. Nobody is sure who among the adults did so.
How can a child commit suicide? I don't remember how many kids were there - maybe between 200 and 300 of them. They were all murdered.
There's a very good multi-part programme about Jonestown that is pretty clear about this aspect of the deaths. Really horrifying.
not only that, but as usual most people have lost their frame of reference for how that all started. like as if all these people suddenly moved into the jungle and committed suicide. the very idea that started Jonestown I think pretty much every person could get on board with. comes down to that whole "boiling frog" thing.
I don’t think she understands or has any empathy yet because there’s a really appalling lack of awareness for what happened in Jonestown in this video. Especially for someone who is so wanting to be racially inclusive! This channel is excellent and she’s absolutely brilliant that’s why she needs to be held to higher standards.
Excellent research! Very informative. Thank you!
"Wake up Olive." The grief expressed in that is overwhelming. Brings tears to my eyes. And I despise those who exploit that grief.
The animation with the number of authorities vs. Branch Davidians is particularly powerful and effective. Well done
Kristie Kelly indeed
Gov't: Let's go meet this doomsday cult with overwhelming and insurmountable force. This should turn out just fine.
@@rickc2102 Nearly 30 years into the future, we can clearly see they haven't learned a thing from this abysmal failure.
WHY did they have recordings of rabbits being tortured? That's incredibly sick.
Hunters
Why you would record that is beyond messed up.
But when there is an explosion in the population of rabbits in our state, they corral them and beat them to death with clubs.
We have a lot of, let’s just say, couldn’t graduate High School types around here. They go out and shoot all the coyotes they possibly can, and other predators, including birds of prey. Yes even birds of prey. So the balance of predator and prey becomes a wreck.
The beating hasn’t happened in a long time tho.
@ for "scientific" research. They honestly could have just played the a b major note for hours that would make them just as insane and would not have been animals being torchured.
People who go hunting will play the sound of dying rabbits or lure out foxes
It's a predator lure for hunters.
I never knew any of the details of this horrible event ...thank you for the info
I always enjoy your commentary and I see you as objective and informative. I think in some respects you are unique but in your case that is a good thing.
"Divine power pissing contest" is the best phrase I've heard all week.
maidcafejenifer - I am going to snatch it and use it this week in a sentence....randomly. Just for fun. 🤪
Kinda what it turned out to be in the bigger picture as well. What a mess.
And so unnecessary.
I was 28 years old when this tragic event took place. It was the first time I felt I was being manipulated by media and the government. I could not understand the bizarre, heavy handed, overreaction of what I was seeing. I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I never again flippantly believed news stories. I research to form my own opinions. The awfulness of what happened to those poor people changed me in a profound way.
I turned 30 when this happened!
I was younger, but wondered why the sexual abuse wasn’t the reason to take action. Instead they hurt those kids even more. It’s a very layered, and badly handled situation.
So relevant in today’s world. ❤️
@@enrihoward6077 "The media blew it out of proportion?" - Nobody said that. The OP mentioned "the bizarre, heavy handed, overreaction". Could be about the media response, but I think it's meant to describe the military-style attack on the compound. Yes, the group was heavily armed. Possibly dangerous. It's quite possible they only meant to defend themselves if the government ever tried to enforce the law on them, but regardless there were serious allegations against them.
The Bundy crowd at the Malheur Refuge under the Obama administration was handled more carefully. Law enforcement looked like they'd rather not create a firefight. I think that's a more sensible approach. Realize that these people are dangerous, but possibly less dangerous if they're handled with patience. Control the situation, and bide your time until you can safely make an arrest. Otherwise, you put everybody's lives in danger, and are more likely to engage in illegal tactics.
Good on you. I was not alive when this happened, but learning about it after the fact. Never believe the news firsthand. Always research to form your own opinions!!!
Thanks for this video
Great coverage.
If you're taking shelter in a fire-proof vault and covering with wet blankets, chances are you are avoiding fire, not trying to take your own life from it. The tanks also tore out strategic holes in the structure, creating a type of venting which caused the building to burn very quickly as it did.
@@sjb3460 sad but real portrayal of the horror the victims of this massacre had to endure before dying. Talk about cruel and unusual punishment
@@sjb3460 "I have heard the FBI Hostage Rescue Unit say many times that they had recordings of David Koresh telling people to "set the fires" but I have not been convinced the poor quality recordings are authentic. " I have heard that story too. Problem is, the mikes they supposedly used wouldn't be invented for maybe 15 ears after the massacre happened. Also the standoff could have ended in a matter of a few days if the feds would have allowed the local sheriff to go in and look at the evidence the Davidians had that proved they had not started the ambush
@@sjb3460 They ORIGINAL story was, they had embedded these mikes in pizza boxes, they had sent into the house. Mikes, tiny enough to embed in a cardboard pizza box, with the power that would allow them to transmit sound hundreds of feet through walls, just was not available at that time.
@@sjb3460 Yes that sounds very plausible, with TODAY'S technology, but think late 80s, early 90s CB technology, you would have the mike, but need a transmitter to get the sound outside the house. Biggest problem with this whole idea is that the feds claim they used these bugs to listen in and hear David Koresh order his followers to set the house on fire, but in a interview with the local coroner, the coroner claimed Koresh's body was found shot to death in his room, likely killed before the fire started. So, which story is real?
@@sjb3460 most plausible explanation of what happened that I have seen yet
"Divine Power Pissing Contest" could be a new band name. I call dibs!
Late 70's to early 80's punk band or Stoner metal band.
That's the name of my Katy Perry cover band. We'll be covering all the stuff she did when she was a christian singer, before she decided that wasn't profitable enough and turned into a Madonna-clone.
Sounds like a band that should be opening for Ghost! I love it! XD
sounds like a GG Allen song !😉
@@sophiew1967 GG Allen or Dayglo Abortions! XD
Having been a teenager when both Ruby Ridge and Waco happened, I just shake my head at the stupidity of people insisting our government would never turn on us.
LMAO. That's what every GD criminal says 😂
@@evangelicalsnever-lie9792 It's not a crime to be in a cult.
@@JayBee-cr8jmOr live off grid !
@@JayBee-cr8jmbut child abuse and pedophilia is, isn’t it?
Beautiful top Caitlin, love the colours and pattern.❤
Having followed Waco since it took place in 1993, I have seen a lot of documentaries, movies, miniseries, current affairs stories and opinion pieces on it over the years, and I wanted to say that this was one of the best researched and and respectfully presented videos on the event. Thank you for not ridiculing it and for giving the people who died there the recognition the so frequently do not receive, simply passed quickly over as collateral damage in the "bigger story".
same!! Very nice video, very respectful!!!
What is your opinion of the whole matter? Quiet frankly, I think everyone involved in it was at fault. No one was innocent in the matter.
@@BHuang92 those children were.
@@deiniolbythynnwr926 how was she not respectful, she didn't attack anyone and gave a balanced view of the situation as per usual
"Grave sucking" never thought I'd ever hear those two words used in the same breath.
I’m 59 now, but was 28 (almost 29) when this federally-funded massacre went down. I had just moved back from Houston, Texas to Montgomery, Alabama only 10 months earlier.
I’ll keep it real--I was absolutely pissed off at the ATF, the Texas state police, DOJ, and most especially, that freak Janet Reno.
On the very same night of the day these Davidians were murdered, I was at a friend’s house watching the news about this holocaust. Everyone in the room was outraged.
I then made the remark “Watch how someone out there retaliates for this shit.” I didn’t mean I wanted something catastrophic to happen in the future, but that’s pretty much what did happen in Oklahoma City a couple of years later. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸👨🏻🦳🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
It wasent all the atfs fault, most of the blame goes to the manipulative child rapist of a leader they had
"Why didn't they just comply?"
@@jimmiller5600 manipulation by the cult leader
@@jimmiller5600 For reasons unknown, the followers truly believed in an Armageddon ending. I was wrong into believing there was a Clinton conspiracy, I just didn’t like the way the whole thing transpired and the end result.
@@m.scottreeder Cults almost always prophesize eminent End of Days of one flavor or another. Fear is a great motivator. Was Koresh and his posse in violation of various laws? Probably. Did ATF have a search warrant? Yes. If they were innocent could they have just complied and then be cut loose (as they had in a prior shoot out)? Did the government intentionally kill them? This isn't Hollywood where dark conspiracies lurk behind every corner. This is real life and mistakes were made, particularly by Reno (and the Texas Rangers mixing in non-CS 40mm rounds which might have sparked fires).
Excellent presentation.
Given the “notoriety” for cops shooting dogs for no reason without repercussion it’s highly believable that the “ATF shot first at the dogs” account is the true one and the agent was pressured into retraction.
The recent police response to protests as well makes the entire situation more indicative of the institutional spite towards civilians that the police had and have to this day.
Dogs are the early warning system, so in any situation like this the dogs are the first to go.
You mean riots, not protests.
@@dadofducks I could go "same difference, coward" which is basically the truth but...
The police are responsible for escalating peaceful protests, against police violence and institutional racism that actively kills black people, into riots after assaulting, gassing and provoking them, and literally this week disappearing nonviolent protesters in Portland and Chicago with unmarked federal agents.
Just like they were responsible for escalating the situation here into a tragedy involving dozens of deaths of abuse victims, many of which were children.
Cop former friend of mine confirmed they shoot dogs to terrorize people, giving the cops a psychological advantage. Some dogs might defend their homes and people, most don't, and even try to run away while being shot at.
@@cynhanrahan4012 That would backfire in my case. Shoot at my dog and I charge, even if I'm risking my own life.
Another truth about this is that Koresh left the compound many times and they had ample opportunity to snatch him up without anyone dying.
She mentioned that he, and others, left.
He did not after ATF got involved.
@@nise5281 but they had been investigating him and his organization very heavily prior too the assult, and he had left many times during the investigations.
He could have surrendered in the beginning and none of it would have happened. But the government went WAY above what was needed!
Beth Roesch - they sure did.
This was informative, I was confused about what happened in Waco .
A Wonderful Summary
Agree 100%!
A friend of mine taught at Waco High at that time. A fairly rough place. Locals knew that the Feds could have picked up Koresh at the local WalMart any time prior to the siege.
The goal of the government was to demonstrate their absolute authority, not to arrest David.
Paul S Rohrbaugh No kidding. 🙄
@@PsRohrbaugh Yes and remember in all these horrific acts the one in charge seem to be Democrats. Yes they really are tolerant, aren't they? Janet Reno is burning in hell. And the Clintons will surely be joining her soon!
Same thing with Gordon Kahl in North Dakota. The local Sheriff in Carrington called the Fed when Gordon was in the Carrington Hospital (a place I spent a week or so in years ago) recovering from a small plane crash where he had broken his leg. He advised the Marshall service to come and serve him there since there would be no chance of confrontation. The US Marshall in Fargo told the Sheriff in no uncertain terms to "stay the hell out of our business, we will take Kahl when we are good and ready!" Well you can look up the massacre in Medina to find out how that went. I got this directly from the Sheriff's mouth, I worked in a nearby town and knew the Sheriff very well, we used to have coffee together at least once a week.
George Taylor Yeah no bs power shows from the government happening right now! Oh wait 🙄
The idea of using Nancy Sinatra's 'These Boots Were Made For Walking' as torture is unintentionally hilarious.
I remember hearing about the Army blaring Hank Williams over loudspeakers mounted on tanks while blasting villages in the Vietnam War.
Chumbawunba, if it existed at the time..would have been perfect lol
They used that song against Noriega as well. Apparently the government in it's infinite wisdom (cue cheesy 80's counter terrorism video) believed that song would drive people batty.
It's better then the theme ro Barney.
@@tvtitlechampion3238 the Army also playing wailing and screaming to scare the fuck out of them they practice ancestor worship and they were led to believe that this wailing and gnashing and carrying on with the voices of their ancestors who are unhappy with them for fighting a lot of them committed suicide on the spot and I should know my dad was there
Great Job Janet.
It’s interesting to note that the tear gas used was “CS” gas that, when exposed to heat, turns into HCN, Cyanide gas, the same stuff prisons used to kill inmates in the gas chamber. That explains how some of the kids’ bodies were horribly deformed, like pretzels. The authorities said that the CS particles weren’t flammable. They failed to mention that the dispersant that spread the CS powder was paint thinner. The chief sniper on the team, Lon Horiuchi, deemed that anyone who passed by a window posed a threat and authorized a shooting. Examination of Sierra One, the sniper’s nest, disclosed rifle cases on the floor next to a wall bearing chalk marks like a picket fence. Horiuchi used the marks, presumably for scoring. Historical Note: Lon became famous for executing Randy Weaver’s wife and unborn son in an FBI raid at Ruby Ridge. The killings were deemed "unconstitutional."