How Squad's Community Devolved
Vložit
- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Constructive criticism is encouraged. please like, comment, and subscribe and i will make more stuff.
• Trench Assault / FN FA... Trench Assault / FN FAL | Squad ICO 7th Playtest - side
• Project Reality v1.7.0... Project Reality v1.7.0 | Intense Firefights with Russian Forces in Grozny! | 4k 60fps - Kap
/ how_to_clear_a_hab "How to clear a HAB" - YsaR_Crystal
/ ico_sidebyside_slower_... ICO Side-By-Side:Slower Sprinting, Lean Spam Fix, and More - u/42observer
• Squad new Suppression ... Squad new Suppression is Gold - Sylvanas
Scott Tobin is responsible for the music in the PR trailer. check him out. - Hry
As a PR veteran and someone planning to buy Squad due to ICO, this video is amazing. One thing though. Turn up the volume.
audio is a big issue for me lol. im working it out though
YES
My advice for easy audio improvement: Record with Audacity + Noise Reduction + Compression and follow up with a Limiter. @@Monifans.
Tried ICO yesterday. Plays much more like PR!
@@col.kernel Nah screw that, Audacity is confirmed malware. There's far better free editors out there on the market that he should use.
cod and battlefield players who have no concept of teamwork, that's what ruined this game, hopefully the ICO fixes the damage
By filtering out those playing, hopefully it will get better
Amen
jesus no 1 on squad works together they all talk shit and do fuck all
rant add re: generic fps squad wiping, mass kda...
coming from tarkov, killing One equally tough player, is sometimes the greatest achievement, excitement of the game, more satisfying than other gen fps'
Dude, this is not a comment, it is a Tldr of the video
2006-Current PR player, SQUAD competitive player. I am still a part of the PR dev team, in a much more reduced role. But did alot of the map balancing for a number of years. But was also around for the birth of squad.
While I agree that the marketing has been a contributing factor to the games current state. Its more of a systemic issue that has existed from the birth of SQUAD, that it was this divergences from the core to appeal to the masses. Some of the decisions make sense in hind sight, the targeting of Milsim communities in the early days etc.
But the first buy in from OWI's marketing/public relations/community managers of attracting and targeting a competitive community, to then latter abandon and shun said competitive community/player lead to this more individual pub stomp style of people(Bit of a tangent).
Squad lost its direction for a number of years. Hopefully it will come back to the pseudo realism rewarding gameplay along the lines of PR.
yes, i think i have heard PR players talk about the running speed change in the very first version of squad really shook up the player base and was kind of the start of the issue?
@@Monifans. Wasn't so much the running speed changes, it was the actual plans and actions of their marketing/PR teams that was specifically reaching out to these wider audience communities and promising them the world.
the delusional competitive member
@steve-us2hg imagine arguing for more team work, then calling teams who work together "delusional"...
@@steve-us2hg You actually didn't read what I said past SQUAD competitive player.
"One guy will never beat 3 people in a group"
Let me show you a Pr0Gamer move
*throws a granade
lmao
The classic no one is defending but everyone is attacking and then it becomes a double neutral situation.
Preach!
The ico will definitely change this
You won’t like hearing this but the extent of strategy in most squad servers is just good hab placements that are close enough to the objectives for a sustained push, and also hidden and / or in some sort of cover.
Bonus points if your infantry tells your armor where the enemy armor is and keeps the markers accurate.
Coordinating between squads for attacks is almost always impossible. You can usually only hope to control hab placement and armor communication.
Otherwise once the (hopefully well placed) habs are set up, the game is now off to the infantry bumrush races. Both teams will have 100m radius spacing and rarely revive teammates as they all try to Rambo their way to the next attack point. Also most squads are silent.
This game essentially plays out like call of duty with clunky acogs and excessively large maps for a company sized engagement.
Maybe one of the few comments that I've seen that I know is written by someone who actually plays in servers. And aren't some milsim philosopher or community figure big enough where everyone will dickride, I mean work with them.
nah literally. spawn in and get camped by a tank outside our hab. our own tank ran off somewhere and it just turned into throwing infantry at each other.
I play SL alot, and what I love the most in this game is outmenoeuvering the enemy and I agree with you, this is basically what happens. Next step is both teams have a squad of 3/5 guys roaming the battlefield for fobs. Bryond that, they have a commander who knows how to use his kit. Yes, Squad has basically become a slugfest, and I hate it... God I used to love this game!
I used to squad lead during the early days (The 1st HMMVWs). I loved moving up as a group just dumping mags in the enemies general direction. All the while closing a pincer movement with another squad who mostly moved uncontested due to us making such a racket lol. You cant do that anymore. Now you have to spread out into small groups or your entire squad will be killed by 1 guy who has a 25mm, m240, m249 shooting over their heads. I am in a clan and i keep seeing "dead game when infantry update". I always keep telling people that im excited for when open top hmmvw, tigr, mrap, g-wagons have another use rather than just an ammo resupply for a HAT or LAT ( I am also guilty of this aswell due to these vehicles NEVER being used). I want the abandonment of an open top hmmvw to be just as taboo as leaving a logi in the middle of nowhere. Being able to use a .50 cal or an m240b to supress the enemy so you can maneuver is exactly what those systems are used for. But right now a .50 cal could be shooting at you and you just go back to csgo. Stop Flick Shoot. Trust me, ive abused the broken suppression mechanic to kill tanks, squads, and HABs. I also died to a 1 tab from a person who is jiggle leaning behind a tree that ive shot half a belt at. I think the change will be mostly good.
i know it's niche but i agree with you that one of the most exciting aspects of the ICO is that light vehicles will now be very useful. in playtests i've noticed people religiously bringing their light vehicles up to support them in firefights, clearly trying to claw out any advantage in fire superiority they can to win the fight and i just think that's awesome.
@@Monifans.If they would just give open tops scoped weapons, they would be 10x more viable
@Monifans.
They tweaked the recoils between 2016-2017's vehicle releases, as well as how to place down fobs from simple radios, to place the radio then get supplies, to place the radio next to the logi trucks - this inconsistent change of gaming mechanism is what destroys the gaming experience with every new pre-release versions; not to mention the most fundamental common reason behind the down fall of squad and covid19:
they don't want people to teach each other and work as a team.
The infiltration of wickeness, that's the fundamental reason this game is becoming what it is.
p.s. they - being the ordained vessels of wrath/"clay pigeons" - powerful financial interest groups that wants to enslave all human beings.
This’ll probably get buried but, when I first joined squad 4/5 years ago, I was hooked. I loved the experience and immersion of being under immense pressure and working with a team to pull through it. I even joined a unit - 1/1 marines and got to know a great group of guys who I’d play with. I loved the team work; and I eventually made my way to becoming a squad leader in the unit, and started sl-ing in normal games. But over time, the unit died. The squad community changed as you said.
And between the ICO play tests and now this video, I’ve come to realize that I’ve devolved into one of those battlefield players. I’m ashamed to admit it but the skills and confidence I developed over those years made me change my play style to a kill farming lone wolf. Over the past year, I’ve played very sparingly, maybe a match every week or two. And In those matches i regularly get in the top 3 for kills - which is all that’s come to matter to me. What I mean to say is, that love of teamwork and coordination died for me, and I’m ashamed of that fact. I very sincerely hope that the ico will revive that love in me, and not drive me away from one of my favorite games.
i've run solo from the get go, and many sl's ive been under don't have the right mentality of accessing the map for stragetic purposes. I think the main issue with Squad is that there's no stats, with no stats what's the point of proving how good you are etc which leaves to a dead end experience. My best game I had 36 takedowns with 29 kills and 4 deaths as a rifleman, pretty much every game my kd is around 5/10-1... I've played matches with karmakut before and Devil Dog Gamer and those matches were legit the best rounds i've played since playing squad, people that know how to read a battlefield and play it out makes Squad more immersive in my opinion.
Try armoured, teamwork is required and is tons of fun with friends. Though it’s ass as a TC (Tank Commander) and the commander for the team and other SLs aren’t cooperating, asking or responding to you
@@dronus So you play the game for clout ? I use to play HLL for the experience of teamplay even if at the end i have nothing to prove it happened
@@dronus the fact that there is no stats is a huge benefit since people will show how good they are by their skills and the fact that they can win a game for the team. Add stats and everything will devolve into "i gOt mOrE kILLs thAn yOu"
haha, everyone point at him for being a kill farmer!
Great video. Some good takes. Considering making a response video to this. There's definitely a demand for coordinated teamplay. Everything I'm seeing from OWI makes me think they've course-corrected and are going to put genuine effort into steering Squad out of the gutter and into glory.
I seriously think a huge step in the right direction would be making the commander NOT be an SL. If he can play the game like an RTS watching the map and coordinating the squads, it would be incredible. Being an SL is already overwhelming, but I'm having to figure out everything on my own like where to go or whether to defend or attack, while the Commander is herding the cats in his own squad and not communicating. Basically the Commander is just an SL that can call fire support, that's literally it right now
I mean ya idk what else they would do maybe add a special color for map markers from the commander, I wish it would spam "need supplies here" or pick up like I remember in PR people would respond to it and drop supplies or build a app just from the marker
No one takes the commander role seriously because experienced players dont use the role and most squad leaders dont follow their orders, and why should one person dictate the flow and direction of the game anyway? how do you dictate if this person is capable of the intended role. A game master of sorts.
Seen too many war movie, cinematic milsim game enjoyers take up the role and bark nosense on deafen ears then whinge and alt-f4
@@knackers-mv4lc I think hell let loose and rising storm 2 vietnam implemented the commander role much better then squad has
In the early days of squad cmd squad would get 2/3 people then lock their squad. But teams are so uncoordinated now its hard to get anyone to talk or listen anyways
I got into this game because I was a battlefield fan. I can say I wasn't experienced with any milsim style game prior to Squad and was hooked after the experiences I had with other teams full of people who would bullsh*t and chill and then suddenly start shouting orders and compass degrees. Now that the ICO gameplay is out I can definitely see where the teamplay is paramount here and absolutely love it. Even tonight, I had one of the best games I've ever played. 80% of the squad leaders didn't speak to one another in the game until we were at a roadblock and HAD to cooperate. It was only then that we won.
I think more battlefield players SHOULD play Squad. I think a lot of people who play, don't realize they're yearning for something more. Once they get that team that is down to earth, that is chill and doesn't mind mistakes, they'll see that the game has a ton to offer.
Then, as they're getting hooked to the team play, they'll see that artillery barrage or mortar fire and say "Battlefield what?"
nice glazing there, too bad 90% of the game is a walking sim with nothing going on
Nice glazing?? lol wut?
@@meepy546 Walking sim with nothing going on, LMFAO. Have you tried using your brain and maybe build a hab so you don't have to walk?
@@meepy546 for me who has 2k hours in arma 3 it's not a problem i will buy this game
Its crazy seeing old gameplay of squad in contrast to where it is now. Really is amazing how far its come. When the teamplay comes together, it really is an awesome experience!
The only gripe I have is the level of scope blackout. It's frustrating in close quarters to try to aim, but see nothing, hipfire inaccurately and miss because they're a bit too far, empty mag and run away. While the other guy did the exact same thing.
The point is to discourage the use of long scopes in close quarters, iron sights and holographics work a treat when clearing buildings.
@@ItIsCoMpLiCaTeDsTuFf It goes beyond discouraging though, my guy will see nothing but black when aimed in for like 5 seconds. They should tone it down a bit so its just harder to see, not impossible to see.
Why don't they implement a point fire mechanic to go inbetween hip and ADS. This is such a simple fix
@@pevebeYeah, PUBG did this and while they’re arcadey, Squad can use this to basically do a pre-ICO hipfire.
i am also glad that battlebit came out too, which means the individualistic players have a chance to switch there if theyre not willing to adapt
You really think that? I have about 3k hours in squad over the past 5ish years. I've really enjoyed my time. ICO is unplayable for me, gun play is largely down to who has more stamina instead of who is the better shooter, the blurring effect accompanied with weapon sway and headbobbing is nausea inducing.
But yeah skill issues and go back to cod am I right. (Never played cod for one minute) and battle bit is mindless running.
@@Nasse83 you didn't conserve stamina as you should've. You cant sprint hell even jog for long periods of time and expect sharp millisecond aim without breathing heavily. It is *simulated* enough here in the new update and also expect minor tweaks from there.
@@orangep34nut13 like i said its about who has more stamina
@@orangep34nut13you cant sprint for more than like 10 or 20 seconds now. legit feels like im in tarkov with 6 tank batteries on me.
@@meepy546if the distance you are trying to move is too long to then you should be in a vehicle with your squadmates
Business wise, if OWI make a bet of shrinking their player base but really owning it, it could works. Like being king of your own little pond.
Maybe getting those who dream at ARMA3 but can't put up with the difficulty of it, and also on the other side, those who like BF but feel it could be a big more tactical.
no it does not the company does not make money from players who bought the game ages ago.
perhaps instead of being one in a million of battlefield clones, squad could corner the tactical FPS market. and i think they have a pretty good chance of doing that. at least in the modern era.
@@INS0MN1A_N3 They just added MTX with Emotes. The concept of whales keeping niche games alive is viable.
@@INS0MN1A_N3 Yeah exactly, this is a business after all, if they can't make money this is no bueno.
They need to have new influx of customers + making old customers continue to pay them.
While reducing costs.
Making more content and making the game better is good for first problem. Also marketing, PR, etc... Appealing to a broader audience does make sense, but you can't loose the essence of what you offer or you're fucked. Squad is playing on the "we are more hardcore than BF" and that is appealing to... BF players ! But then too much BF players arrive and then the game is not hardcore anymore and the hype dies. Gotta find that balance.
Emotes and in-game transactions like cosmetics are great for 2nd problems. But these are 1 time transactions. If 10 000 people buys 10$ cosmestics thats only $100k that could just cover the cost of making the cosmetics in the first place. Best would be recurrent revenue, like monthly 5$ from people (for services that would justify the cost obviously).
To be honest, i bought squad recently because of this overhaul. And many of people too. I think that except veterans of the game, this overhaul is a good thing
Now I remember why I only play squad once every couple of months, however the new combat overhaul does make me want to play it again to see if it really gonna incentivize players to rely on teamwork more.
same, i used to just play squad on and off, now it's going to be full time for me lol
It didn't. Evolved to hiding in bushes, shooting randomly and both sides playing trench warfare.
Invasion is dead.
Game will die.
@@VengefulMaverick weird, I can’t stop the gMg guys from playing invasion over and over on this update. Someone should tell them it sucks now
It hasn't. At least not on american servers. You got idiot SLs putting fobs down directly on point and not defending it (It's gotten so bad they even place attack fobs on enemy points), you have commanders wasting assets on vehicles or on points the team isn't even actively engaging, people going through the entire arsenal of armor because they don't want to work with the infantry and a lot of servers seems to be a steamroll. As clunky as ICO is, I prefer it over the old Squad but it seriously feels like it had the opposite effect OWI was gunning for
Can't forget the admin abusing too (not every server but some like BAD has it REAL bad)
It is really nice that ru servers are staying strong. Precise communication, awesome teamwork, squads working together in order to effectively destroy a tank, apcs coming to helping out infantry the moment they ask for help. Me and my friend are apc mains and having whole map planned out with awesome communication of enemy movement is truly bizzare
Ironic given the (likely bullshit) Western propaganda about their abilities in Ukraine.
There's more to the story though... because community is devolved but also polarised - at one side a drooling mass of call of duty players without understanding of the experiance at the other very elitist mentality of some of those declaring they "understand the game" (while having no idea what they are doing honestly). Both extremes amplify each other and make the game actively worse. Because while it isn't enjoyable to watch lemmings die while running around aimlessly, it also isn't enjoyable to get booted from squad while digging down enemy radio and begging squad lead to mark it (radio found on the way to waypoint given by SL...) only to get no response, getting then booted without much fanfare, and grim satisfaction from seeing them all go down holding worthless position while ignoring enemy HAB behind them. And I do understand the frustration when squad doesn't listien because I do play SL sometimes as well. But the sheer EGO of some people goes off the charts. I guess this ego is built because they seem to be able to make a plan, even if it's disfunctional plan and hardened by kicking countless idiots who don't even attempt to communicate or justify action/ask for permission. But by all that is holy, if somebody in your squad calls out to you, gives justification, requests some action on your end - then giving no response is in fact agreement for them to act as they please regarding request. Simple. Because the loop of think communicate coordinate act usually breaks on communication part. Either person does not communicate themselves, or they do but get ignored. Both break the game.
Same thing happened to HLL on consoles. Got so fed up I joined the PC master race after about 7 months of saving and I’m finally buying and downloading squad today. Hopefully I find a knowledgeable person to show me the ropes to this game.
Welcome to the community.
@@paintballmasterz thanks man
Nice pfp
In fact, this problem is just in American servers, you get into French and Spaniard servers (if you speak the language) and everybody prioritise staying together and follow leaders instructions.
In American servers I see always the main tanks being destroyed because they wanted to go solo amidst enemy lines. Instead of being among friendly infantry following only commander instructions. Come to European servers! (no UK, also they are very "solo COD operator style" ).
Yh seems like a cultural issue sometimes
fucking americans ( i am one) lol
its like this in turkish servers aswell (arguably worse), most matches are steam rolls, the entire team is trying to do the same thing (attacking) without building habs NOR defending the current active defense cap and vehicle crews get frustrated when they are asked to transport troops (no joke i once saw one of those lightly armed VDV apcs immediately driving to the enemies main roads after dropping a squad off at the first cap, guess who lost that match). its almost like armor squads just want to play b-rated war thunder out in the edges of the map, which is probably why when i check the map 10 minutes after match start ALL of our tanks/ifvs/apcs are missing
They all think they're special. (Americans)
Yeah, US comp teams are somewhat of a joke in the german community aswell.
So if pre ICO the game was mostly about individual skill, does that mean americans are just worse at shooters than EU players? xD
New player here (Purchased Squad in 2016 during alpha) but I still only have 150 hours since 2016 since the game in my region is super sweaty (OCE). I've been trying to get into the game again since v6.0 and well.. There's no leadership, I don't know what I'm doing, no one want's to tell me what I'm doing, so I basically end up chasing my SL around the map, 5 games tonight, and 5 steam rolls, ngl, it was super fun gunplay, but the lack of obj and leadership, can't be bothered. So yeah, Good luck to the Squad community to get new players in. Tonight I had a match where I had 9 revives, I decided to just play Medic, once the game was over, I had like 300 odd points and the closest medic had 3 revives, there was even a clan "squad" that didn't even have a medic. Like this game is cool, but the community sucks!
I've noticed a lot of the people that seem the most mad about the update are people with multiple thousands of hours.
To a degree I think a lot of it is just suddenly needing to learn things again, but a lot of them really seem to have lost the plot over time. I've recognized some of those names and they were not good players to say the least. Like they got good kills, but just didn't seem to engage with anything else. Squad leaders that didn't even try to lead or even tell their squad what was going on.
And honestly while there are some frustrating things with this update at times, I feel like if we loose those players we are just loosing dead weight. They've lost the plot and just see squad as something different than what it's supposed to be. Squad is dead, long live Squad!
Community is so important to gameplay, great video!
We forgot to gatekeep.
Literally wvery game now is me running logi alone with maybe 1 other dude, i see many squads with no squad leader, just 8 infantry running around with their heads cut off
Truth, or having to build fobs yourself as SL switching to crewman cause no one wants to build them, or some random squad taking off with your logi and dieing 5 seconds after that
I just got the game a few days ago. So far, I have noticed you either have a really dedicated SL to direct his men(who effectively vocalizes what he wants each player to be tasked with), or someone that just bosses you into building a superfob, and quits the moment the hab goes down. I have yet to find a SL other than those two types
One of the main issues is manpower scale. I mean even in the trailers they pump out, they’re isn’t enough infantry on one side to even do what happens in the marine trailer. There are so many angles to the game. Vic’s, air, logi, infantry, and HQ with commander, but not enough dudes to even fill a quarter of the slots. It usually ends up with 2 inf squads about half full (on a good day), a tank or Bradley, 2 helis, and IF YOURE LUCKY a guy to do logistics. They either need to scale back on vehicles and capsize or increase the amount of players on each team.
Also some actual command structure would be an improvement. HQ squad needs to be a thing and actual abilities to command squads. Commander is honestly just JTAC. I’d also appreciate a revival of proper fireteam use. Idk that’s my rant 🗣️🗣️🗣️
The only time I can have fun in squad nowadays is when I play with my friend and he will typically squad lead. He's a pretty terrible SL as he only had about 24 hours in the game, but he at least communicates. I hope the ICO will fix that
I played lots of PR last year, and a bad squad leader who constantly communicates and makes it up as he goes is so much better than one without a mic
@@rogermcbadlad2812 100% I will leave instantly if my SL isn't communicating enough, it just ruins the gameplay
HLL has this same problem, Wild Bill said "everyone wants to have fun - they don't want to play the game to get that"
Hopefully this update filters the bad players out. It looks extremely promising.
Filtered all the good ones out instead lol
I'm having a general thing to say about this. While I may be part of the minority, I do wish to be communicative in Squad. I'd love to even Squad Lead, I'm usually very extroverted, and I want to both win through good coordination and even make friends.
However, I have stopped touching Squad for the most part, for a reason that many may not be considering. As a girl, I am not WANTED to communicate. Every time I Squad lead, I get hit by "Why are you not in the Kitchen?" jokes, or even things such as "Why use voice changer?". I often play with my own friends, who have seen me irl for years. But going through the hastle of proving myself is too much for a game that is supposed to bring fun through teamplay.
If I am not allowed to play a Video game because of my gender, what else am I supposed to do? It's 2023, should I ride a pony or play with Barbie dolls?
Unfortunately, for the sake of the teams, I have stopped playing Squad until the Community betters itself in that regard...
Coming as a new player, from games such as ARMA 3 I have noticed this too. It’s sad really they alot of girls in such milsim communities are derided with phrases such as the things you said. Even Milsim West does not really go that far. I felt Squad lost it’s identity already.
This is why I played modded versions like MEE. Because new players don’t even know that such servers exists, so I hope it stays that way.
I'd bet the mod servers will be much more popular going forward.
The name of the game is literally Squad. Mfers lonewolfing get 2 warnings b4 kick from my squad. Mic check at the start or youre gone.
They need trailers that are PACKED with comms. Realistic, concise, coordinated voices and radio chatter should be front and center. Sniper shot, dive for cover, call for fire, problem solved. We need public service announcements and public relations messaging rolled into one
Goddamn, not a huge anime girl but that animation at 12:30 made me cry ;-;
This is something I noticed when I played the first infantry overhaul playtest. the way they made that first playtest made you move with your team had to utilize bases of fire with your team to be effective
Good video though, I totally agree
I like the new overhaul cuz it’s like PR’s deviation system but 3D so you don’t have to keep looking at the bottom of the screen to see if your weapon is stable
Mortaring is possibly the most boring thing you could do in battlefield, but in Squad it was my favorite thing to do. The best moment was when my squad was trapped under heavy 50 cal fire, I requested mortar support which smoked out the horizon and allowed us push up and take their position. Having a mortar team is such a huge tactical advantage that nobody cares about today. Whichever squad we were supporting would even actively spot where our mortars were landing so we could adjust our ranging accordingly. The teamwork in this game was magical and made the mundane act of mortaring incredibly fun.
I miss PR when jets were actually manned.
I remember being a 2 man recon unit being sniper and observer.
Just hiding calling out troop movements and lazing fobs, tanks etc for CAS. We didn’t even shoot and yet it was fun.
@@kekistanimememan170 for real. This game aint about K/D and I love it
I've always hated the "oh they won't change so we need to lower the bar so they don't completely tank the team" mentality. If they won't change, we don't want them and tanking the team's performance for a couple games, calling them out in chat as the low brow low intelligence players they are is how you get them to leave.
This problem is the same everywhere. In games, in real life. If you fight to keep the bad members, the good ones will leave. Take note any actual military leadership in here dealing with retention issues. Inclusivity is a poison. EXCLUSIVITY is the only way to bring in and retain high quality people.
I could not agree more.
Except this is a video game, not even your local McDonald's. This level of gatekeeping for someone's leisure activity when they get home from work is absurd.
Totally agree, came to squad years ago from arma3, since arma was too slow pased and combined ops with milsim teams took like 5-7 hours. Squad was like perfect back in the day, but last two years when I play 70% is frustration seeing what people are doing and SL’s leaving mid game. Today im booting up with that new update to check it out with high hopes.
Great video bro! Keep it up😎
Loved your video man. I think all the people giving hyper critical feedback are mostly correct and it's nice to see you get that constructive criticism that you encouraged. I just wanted to say that as imperfect as it was I really enjoyed it. Especially the Avatar bit. Some have voiced that segment and the trailer were too long, but personally I didn't mind, it kind of submersed me more into your video. It's a delicate balance these days with shrinking attention spans, which is a growing problem in the quality of content created. Ironically it reminds me of the issues with the Squad community you addressed.
i appreciate the concerns! the feedback has been mostly positive and not abusive thankfully. it encourages me to make more videos on squad.
Do it brotha. ngl a lot of the Squad content creators are midwits.@@Monifans.
what kind of music do you use in your videos? i quite like it. friend me on discord: "monihatesdiskord"@@col.kernel
I’d pay 200 bucks to have Squad with the good old PR playerbase. Miss the good days in kongreal valley.
Also I’m convinced squad is not served well with free weekends and/or big sales
I'm a huge fan of squad and play daily. To be honest, unlike other people, I think the ICO is great at reducing the game pace and making it less run&gun. It allows you to take a minute,look around, use binos, which for some factions is a must since there are few scopes, and it also makes people more calculated in their moves if they know what they are doing. All that said, the problem with squad's team play is the fact that nobody respect chain of command above SL level. I think a good idea would be for server communities to recruit more players and train them in squad leading/commanding, spend time theory cradfting strats and so on. This way, servers always have a couple people available to SL and command the team to victory. (I know this would be time consuming and few communities could pull it off but still)
Great video! It got randomly recommended by YT so you're definitely doing good by the algorithm.
Just one thing to mention before your channel explodes - normalize & balance your audio. It's really quiet right now and I had to turn my speakers to 100%
Sometimes I feel like I’m the problem but when I’m telling my boys to FLANK with me and I look at the map and they are running in a straight line to the point it really sucks.
Idk what to do because I’m just one homie sitting behind enemy lines blasting mf.
I've certainle never felt like I was the problem, but yep, this is me.
There's usually ones guy willing to come to you if you want to place a rally. If the rally is in a good enough spot your teammates will spawn on it. Especially if it saves them a map tile (300m) of running. You gotta start treating your squad mates like slightly more intelligent AI.
just kick them from the squad. If every leader does that, people who dont listen will leave
Great video with good points. As someone who started out with PR I think you lay out the history well. My only thing is that unfortunately Squad has gained its own identity, and a lot of players have complaints about the ICO. Personally I will be trying to contribute to helping the community adapt and learn teamwork in place of individual skill, but it's going to be a rough road.
The main issue they had was scaling the game into their combined arms vision. Whilst squad had some issues before alpha 9, the game actually had a great balance of smaller / light vehicles and rewarding infantry play wrapped up in a pretty bow of teamwork through communication and coordination. This is because -rewarding coordinated- infantry play was the focus - well before the need to have players run around with vaseline caked to their eyeballs and jello-arms . They absolutely destroyed the central part of squad when they removed the first iteration of the rally system and switched to wave based spawning. Couple that with forcing large scale, low thought out map layers / game modes and questionable mechanical game decisions and you have the pile of stink that they landed in. This is not how a large chunk of the player base c. 2017 would have chosen the direction of the game to go in, but at least they have finally chosen a direction. It's been in limbo forever. Personally, I would rather take a cheese grater to my nuts than play the ICO game in v6.0. But still, it's good they did something to satisfy at least part of their community. GL and have fun out there!
What it’s going to take is more veteran players stepping up and leading squads. I’ve been playing more as an SL and setting the tone from the squad up and being open to working democratically with command.
The thing it's the veteran players squadleading that are leaving because of the update.
democraticly lmao,
I bought squad about a year ago. One of my first matches was with a squad leader and his marksman buddy who was the ony assistant sl in a far corner of the map sniping while some random rifleman was basically commanding the rest of the squad that would listen. When he asked the SL for command he got turned down. When he called out our useless SL, he got trash talked by the 2 guys relentlessly until he left the squad.
8:37 Man, that is just painful to look at. Its honestly exactly this that put me off from squad several times. I would play squad, have fun, end up in close quater combat every now and then. But it was stuff like me laying myself down ontop of a hill/building overlooking where enemies walk from their HAB over to the point, me shooting some guy crossing the road just for him to make a sudden 90 degree turn IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD and shoot me in the skull within a milisecond that made me take hiatus after hiatus after hiatus. Having a seizure after having a bullet go over your head or having an asthma attack after 3 steps of walking might not be realistic, but it sure as hell is more realistic than Chad Thunderglock marching down an open road slaughtering 9 people that had prepared an ambush for him as if he was Robocop.
I'm really looking forward to the ico. I fear though that the "mass exodus" you mentioned or the massive pushback we're seeing may lead owi to implement some half measures which would just make the game suck for everyone. But I guess we'll see
hey, i fell in love with pr and i'm looking to buy squad due to me not being able to play when the servers are full, is this an issue thats gone better or worse?
It comes down to the commanders and squad leaders that bring the teams together, a lack of leadership and experience in the game can make it a shit show but if you join a squad and just do what they tell you it seems to all come together. Ive been loving it if you get a lone wolf in your squad boot em theres always somebody waiting in the queue that communicates
As a battlefield player on console I too am frustrated with the constant of even basic teamwork or squad cohesion.
have 300+ hours in squad now, especially halfway 2023 till now I played a lot but, I have a completely different experience with squad. The only way a server feels like you said, it is very late and every one is sleepy but otherwise (with the right server), I always have very immersive, communication focused games. I would recommend finding a server you like and join their overall community (discord, youtube channels), you will have an amazing time. If you going into squad without trying to make some friends you will have a bad time. Especially the ICO fixed so many problems, so just stay with a server that has good rules, admins and most importantly, rewards SL's in their community. (I play on two servers where if you play SL a lot and the server recognized that, they will give you priority in queing)
Nothing will change until they add a 5 minute respawn timer on inf for giving up. Medics exist for a reason. Maybe having to wait forever after dying will stop the zombie wave / Battlefield tactics.. But all your points were right on the nail. The community really needed this update.
Medics these days are a real coin flip lmao. I wouldn’t trust them that much.
Well this aged like Milk, lmao. Current community servers are basically a toss up between idiot teammates who don't know anything about the game or refuse to learn, or some random Russian/Syrian children/clan teamkilling and wasting team resources every game.
I have literally not seen a SINGLE game in which this doesn't occur.
I watched so many how to squad gameplay tutorials and then run the game only to see that there is no teamleader that does his job or i was the one calling the shots as a noob teamleader. I failed of course as a teamleader. So I spent the last 20 hours only playing the chopper tutorial cos that seemed to be some how useful. Then I dropped the game cos you can't contribute to your team if you're getting shot down to often. I hope for this update. Im actually enjoy teamplay over clicking heads.
sorry for that experience. my first couple hours of squad was actually miserable. then i got that one good game, that classic squad experience and got hooked. the Devs have stated in their Q&A they will try and make new player onboarding easier and i hope they follow through on that.
now that the ICO is out, you should download and try it out.
Really solid points and I think you hit the nail on the head, I couldn’t be happier the direction the game is going in now and the certain players it’s driving out as a result. One thing I definitely know is that I won’t miss that old gameplay style one bit.
Also didn’t expect my terrible gameplay to be in it 😅
i had long break from squad and when i come back i was asking on command channel if no rp is a new meta xd
the reason for that i think its because new players learns from veterans how to play, and they are so op in shooting that they dont need cooperation, thats why ico is great
the streamers and content creators like moidawg, drewski,karmakut and more have all been pushing this very impractical playstyle for so long. theres a popular saying you'll hear a lot in game "if they make it to that point we already lost" its more of a fancy way of saying "we are too lazy to properly have a backline in case our push fails" people dont even leave that as a possibility anymore, they just give up at the slightest pressure. the amount of times my team loses one objective and i spend 15 to 20 mins in the spawn screen waiting for any hab to go up is insane. the "meta" is hit W, and ignore all defensive tactics, the vets are genuinely dummer and worse then noobs a lot of the time because ego runs their game plans. ive gotten way better teamwork from noobs then "high level players" who seem to forget what common sense is.
8:37 yoooo I see myself 😂
Crystal is an amazing shooter, every single guy he killed here isn’t even acknowledging his existence. This IS a skill issue. If you cannot react to a single guy beside your HAB, no ICO is going to make you better. You are simply bad.
What I was doing on squad was the solo click heads mamba jamba you discuss here BUT i would have others in my squad tag along and prolong the fights/keep me up. we would sack complete objectives while the whole team sat on defense. Now with this ICO I cannot even line up a rocket to shoot an enemy vic; that's what I started out as on squad was a lat, and it bothers me.
7 months later and very few servers have good SL's. It filtered out the good players that mattered. I haven't been on in 7 months and the only thing that changed is the fighting loop. You just spam at close range and keep your VERY limited stamina bar above half or even full when near enemies. The game didn't change, its still dictated by HAB placement and armor teamwork than infantry working together. Worse part, you can still lone wolf and play for super high kda because its easier to suppress an entire squad with accurate fire. High kda wasn't just running around and super soldiering, it was about picking a good optic, having good SA, and good positioning. There is very few points to running an optic now because the pip sucks and it depends way more on positioning.
Gave up on Squad years ago after it being my main title since the Alpha. This update is very welcome and I'll definitely reinstall it to give it another chance. IME, the milsim community and gameplay in older games is still unmatched. Instead of relying on a studio to give us the gameplay we want, I'm hopeful modders will continue with something like OHD for the next gen games.
This video is well made and touches on a huge problem with the game you’re right. I will say some
Servers handle it better than others but I wish I didn’t have to wait in a 10 person que just to find a good server with teamwork
yeah, i never played PR, played squad fot the teamwork aspect of it, but i am a very experiencep cs player, a lot of practice clicking heads and there is this one day playing squad then my squad retreated from a position and i got cought in a firefight, remember clearly 5 people pushing me and i just headshot all of them and it felt weird, afther that the foobs became useless and all the others changes came rolling, i just left squad.
yesterday played the combat overhaul and it is what tha game needed, already bad teammates talking about how they did not like the thing
Overtime even I myself was allowing and even doing more of a loner playing style. Although I tried and opted most of the time for team work; a lot of times it was hard to get your whole squad just to stay with the pack for 10 minutes. Gladly now with the update people are getting flattened when ever trying to solo play. You cannot do it EVER. I actually was subjected to this and ill tell you, I was flattened. This update has really fixed these issues.
I've played some matches of squad where our commander is so in incompetent he makes the Russian command structure look perfect
As someone who often plays SL constantly because no one else will and has to deal with people who won't listen, lone wolf, cry whine about being told what to do it's super tiring and often times I wish I could just play a rifleman like I can in Post Scriptum because it's fun to take a simple role, but because I know the squad majority of the time will die without a strong leader I'm usually shoved into the role anyways after the SL eventually leaves due to being so overwhelmed. It's sad and demoralizing because I love the nature of Squad it's easier to get into than Arma and that good mix of combat that Battlefield provides. It's just unfortunate seeing that new players don't understand when I call out the three D's (distance, direction, description) or ordering Squad's to bound, flank, set security, peel etc. I mean armor is even janky. You would assume it would stay with the infantry use it as a base of fire and or flank with some rifleman to still cover it, but most of the time it's lone wolfing and getting destroyed. However I have seen some basic "rudimentary" teamwork with the past update however the community is still mid imo.
Did the update get released today??
Normal match time is usually 1,5-2 hours. From what I see? The match timer never gets close to 30 minutes or so. Is that intended to be this way or is it because of a fast paced gameplay?
The games I've had after ICO have gone to 1hour 30 min plus a lot more than before
I'm team ICO. However it needs tweaks. Aim punch particularly seems a little too strong for semi-accurate incoming that lands a few meters away or are only hitting hard cover.
I'm cool with aim punch being a thing, but I do think that once you have decided to stand ground, get to glass and return fire despite suffering the suppression effects and increased time to get on target then I shouldn't be suffering massive aim punch for anything besides rounds that are landing really close or zipping a meter over my head. At the very least it needs a much more significant fall-off.
imo, suppression is where it needs to be, weapon handling feels a bit weird but it's fine because it serves an important purpose, but the aim punch is a step too far in taking away that player agency.
Overall though, had some great rounds in ICO and am having equal parts fun & frustration learning how to shoot again.
Next step is to bring the PR style supply system with FOBs and Supply Crates, even though it looks unrealistic, it is more intuitive and actually incentivises a more realistic play style.
I love the new gameplay! Last night I did spend 40 minutes shooting my MG neither the allies or the enemies kept advancing after each attempt got repealed. So it turned out in a long range shooting match half of the time, I was crazy the amount of bullets and suppresion.
OWI needs to add the Post Scriptum feature that shows how many bullets you shot at the end of the round, always funny to play the mg42 and see something like 5k bullets shot 2% accuracy
But isn't that how the vast majority of actual combat is? Long range engagements.
I was super hyped for the ICO, then when I started playing it and I HATED it and was very outspoken about it. I recently realized that I MYSELF was part of the problem, and the things I said I wanted and how I played did not align. I now see the ICO more favorably, and there are parts of it I hate but I understand now it's a necessary evil in order to punish those who do not play the game the way it was intended to be played and try to lone wolf. The issue I find most these days though, and another popular squad youtuber said this and I can't agree more, is that the game has changed but players have not. Alot of players are still trying to play the same way they were before the ICO, and it's almost like a self-feeding fire. Join a squad with the full intent of communicating and using teamwork, but when the other players don't reciprocate, feel the need to say, "screw it I'll do it myself". The game is most fun when teamwork, strategy and communication is plentiful but I just don't find myself playing as much anymore because it's hard to find. I will have maybe one or two good matches a day, and then as people get off, the quality of the teamwork is diminished. This is also probably because I live in an odd part of the world and I think a lot of the more teamwork-oriented players are getting off due to it being late, whereas due to timezone differences, it is still rather early where I am at. Nonetheless, I hope the game continues to shift direction and I hope to find more matches that emphasize teamwork, communication and strategy over lone wolfing.
Some casualization updates improved squad tbh and ico just made the game more focused on camping and vehicle combat
I got on squad since early access game was amazing back then people were talking lot of plans and tactics. People were able to make something of the game. Now when i load the game no one is talking i rarely see squad leaders actually leading something (most of the time we have to help them out). The game is still amazing in my opinion, but people need to wake up and stop thinking about solo playing etc.
100% right. Now everyone's playing Call of Duty instead of cooperating.
Yup I for one as a early access player, especially during the covid lockdown months, had the most fun teamwork interactions I've experienced in a game and as soon as the game went live the game started on a decline for me. The quality of gameplay was so stale and the uniqueness of every match was gone it seem to always feel the same or play out the same. After a while my play time was less and less to not playing at all. However, when I got into the ICO playtest...bro...now that was the squad I loved playing. I have no doubt many of the squad vets will be hopping back into the game and ultimately improving match quality to rival it's past.
I've become more interested in squad recently and this New ICO update has convinced me to pick it up when I can.
Ive been wanting to play Squad for a while because of the teamwork base game. Something that I love doing in other games. If have a chance to co-op with teammates, then I'll take that chance and end up getting a far better score then soloing it.
I don’t think we can blame new players for not knowing the game. Instead the veteran players should beat them at the game until they learn. If they keep losing game after game, they will learn to get better. Veterans need to lead by example and carry the team.
The biggest annoyance is new squad leads placing bad radios. There should be an option for the commander to approve radio placements.
Thats an interesting suggestion because it kinda taps into real debates regarding how centralised initiative should be in the military. Look at Russia in Ukraine, how lower levels of command can't and aren't trained to make decisions themselves.
Classic hab right on top of the radio right on top of the flag icon on the map.
i dont think veteran players just stomping new players is going to help. look at tarkov and the cheater epidemic. using new players as stat padding/ free kills is how you get either dead game or a cheater in every match because they feel as if there is no way to compete. then the veterans sit there and wonder why the game dies 2 months after every update.
See as a squad leader myself, I found when I start kicking people that were not participating in the objective of the squad, most everyone else would leave the squad too. So I’m forced just to deal with certain behavior to keep a squad intact.
I absolutely despise the players that try to go and do it Rambo style, I personally hate the ICO update. I just miss actually being able to aim. Now if someone’s crouched around a corner waiting for you, you will almost always lose no matter what. Idk I feel like they may have over done it with the update I think if they toned it back just a tiny bit it’d be better
Haven't even watched the video yet. But as a squad vet that has been playing since the game was a walking simulator. I can most definitely say that the game has deteriorated to a state where I will join servers and a majority of squad members will not be communicating. This was not at all improved by the most recent update (combat overhaul). I hope that this game can go back to being a fun and enjoyable TEAM-oriented game. Im not too optimistic tho I feel the damage has been done to the "serious" player-base from previous updates.
A very good analysis on the ICO debate, good job^^
so what do you think should happen when a soldier walks into a room and has 4 enemies facing away from him? what do you think *would* happen? 8:30
Well in the ICO, they'll all miss each other then pull their knives out... Imagine blaming ysar when the enemy act like a bunch of deaf NPCs.
IRL you have 4 coffins to carry out @@K333N3R
He didn't walk. He jumped over the window and killed all of them at Mach 3 going in and out of ADS like pubg. Then, turned around instantly and headshotted the guy prone that was 120º off to his right. The game shouldn't be like that.
people do it way faster irl you're right@@raized943
Awesome video dude, you make great points and I agree whole heartedly with all of them. I missed the game I loved. I am just downloading the overhall now, been dying to play this for months, hopefully the game I loved has returned. Keep up the great work dude!
So.... how is it 💀
It's worse if you have a bad squad leader but it's better if you have a good one. I think it will take time for the bad players to leave or get better. So right now, it is a little frustrating as if your squad sucks you're gonna have a bad time but the game itself is way better, more immersive and if everyone plays it right, it will be a massive improvement. @@jacobcorcho2518
Also, if you are gonna play it, be prepared to listen to midwitted sweats complain that it isn't a cookie cutter shooter anymore. @@jacobcorcho2518
ive noticed alot of SLs just leaving the squad "im going to re arm at main" then gone. game is in a weird state
Lately, I've been running into SL's disbanding and joining another squad if their plan didn't work out on the first attempt.
there is an influx of new people in the game who think they can lead a squad 20h in the game, this happens to me all the damn time on specific servers, I tend to avoid them entirely@@Animus989
I was about to say "does these criticisms still apply post ICO" and then you mentioned about it
You make it sound like OWI is totally reformed now, like the ICO fixes everything, but Squad still has massive glaring issues that drove me out before the ICO playtests started.
OWI is still fundamentally relying on the player base to teach everything to new players, including where to click in what interface menu to achieve whatever result (kit change, placing radio, etc). This game is too mature and too expensive now to not have proper mandatory tutorials for new players. I think they should do it like old America's Army where certain roles (SL, medic, AT, DMR) are locked behind mandatory, engaging tutorial missions. That alone would help so much with free weekends.
OWI isn't just releasing Hollywood style trailers to attract new players, it seems the game gets a major version increase every other update for minor content additions while ignoring long-standing bugs. In one year we went from v2 to v5 because of 3 maps and 3.5 factions, and the new factions are really starting to feel lazy (PLA Marines). Meanwhile, we have all the same bugs in the game that we had a year ago. Ghosts shooting at random things, astral projection upon getting into APCs, HAT weapons not reloading with full ammo, soldiers appearing to crawl at Mach 3, and so much more...
I want to love Squad again, but I need them to fix some of these bugs first.
OWI is on the right path now.
Imo that blogpost they released was all I needed to forgive them. They straight up apologized.
Has any other studio ever done something like that? Imagine Dice apologizing to BF1942-BF 2142 players for going off the rails with that franchise.
Pretty much impossible to imagine.
It’s funny, I try to work well in my squad, always have even since day 1, but often I find myself alone because the team just leaves and doesn’t talk or doesn’t care to try to coordinate so often I feel like im working better with blue berries over my squad mates. I’ve been rushing using grenadier in order to combat my squad’s lack of teamwork by giving them something to look at, I.e colored smoke. Really, being at around 100 hours, I shouldn’t be having to Co Squad lead and I should be focused on learning the core of the game, but it’s hard when even seasoned players don’t care to try to work as a team.
Theres a reason there are servers with hour locks, that ban players who dont communicate
Very good video. I completely agree. and we see the exact same design issues in games like Hell Let Loose and even Post Scriptum.
Planetside and WW2 online and OFP was peak gaming
I literally can’t even switch cover and coordinate suppressing fire A) because the suppression messes with your aim and it takes a while to gain back motor function for some reason and B) sprinting decreases accuracy, precision, and weapon handling even with a full bar of stamina. So while moving up a street under fire I can’t see, can’t shoot back accurately, can’t tell my squad where to shoot because of one bullet flies close to me I can’t see shit and have to wait 10 seconds for the affect to go away. Picked off one by one
This is the reason i went back to PR and play Squad sparingly and mostly play PR but with the upcoming release of the Overhaul, i have high hopes…
I have about 2k hours in sqd. I quit years ago because I would almost always have to SL. Between herding cats, dealing with toxic players, and listening to the complaining on command chat there was just barely any fun in it anymore. They have made the gunplay worse in order for you to “work together” which is great in theory, but for 90% of the games it’s just not fun.
I feel like it's always been a chaotic headless chickenfest, the most organized gameplay I've seen is on dedicated German servers it was quite amazing everyone was a cog in a huge machine!
I just don't understant why clan members who run servers won't try to manage people on the server. You can barely see admins kick toxic people and griefers.
@@Paul-qk3wr Thats why no one likes the Germans and no one plays their servers lol They suck at war and are even worse in games.
This is basically what ARMA is and always was... one guy running around is always going to die very quickly... team that has more players cooperating together will always win... in example: two of my friends and I play together, one guy captures the key tower which provides great vantage point for stopping enemy advance as well as provide team with accurate info about enemy movement... my other friend uses silenced sniper to cover the tower in case someone tries capturing it. I use anti-material sniper to provide heavy cover as well as suppress all other towers.. Game ends and our team wins but three of us who were co-operating so well together had 1/3 of the ENTIRE team's kills... This is just infantry server...
Now if you join a full vehicles server if you do not co-op you are done for... all gun mechanics are quite realistic which means you need to find zero on your scope to hit targets at range, you die from 1 shot if not carrying any armor or if opponent has high caliber rounds... no health bar no spraying one clip into a guy and he somehow lives like most modern shooters...you can be revived by all teammates but if someone is medic you get revived faster, they can also move your body to cover before reviving you...
I was interested in Squad but my game of choice would always be ARMA...Still, maybe i give it try if it's a free weekend to test how sniping works since I don't play any shooters if they don't have good sniping mechanics...
I wonder how your opinion has changed since the ICO, I’d love another video!
Just play veteran or competitive clan servers